n00b 0f l337? [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

twilyth

12-08-2008, 07:12 AM

riptide;3483432']Well he's done builds for a few guys here..... maybe they can chime in? Maybe the OP can contact them and check the numbers? loonym check this section for builds, and build logs for the customers.

I've never done business with anyone here, but how will checking build logs help loonym? I think too often we place the burden on the person being ripped-off (if this is in fact a rip-off) to chase down the person in whom they put their trust. As a community we should pull together when there is the appearance of wrongdoing.

Plus, I know loonym wouldn't mention this, but he's not in the best of health. As someone who knows what's that's like, I can tell you that even simple things can be very difficult. They're only simple when you're healthy.

If this guy lives near me, I'll be happy to go knock on his door. :)

loonym

12-08-2008, 09:30 AM

I think his most recent build log is the one for me. I have a current cell #. I get voice mail. Contact was good until the end of Sept. and since then nothing. I like the kid, I just want my unit.

Movieman

12-08-2008, 09:41 AM

I called him and left a message late yesterday afternoon.
Now I always got along with him so lets see if this pans out.

[XC] riptide

12-08-2008, 10:42 AM

I've never done business with anyone here, but how will checking build logs help loonym?

Its that he can contact the other customers and see what numbers they have for him. I thought that was made clear...

"Maybe the OP can contact them and check the numbers?"

Movieman

12-08-2008, 10:45 AM

I have some more info coming to me on him later today when a guy gets home from work.;)

phelan1777

12-08-2008, 11:05 AM

hehehe funny you mention location Twilyth as he does live in Jersey, and only about an hour drive north/north east of Philly.

Cpt_Planet, INJViper, Philly_boy and I hung out with him a few times.

twilyth

12-08-2008, 11:36 AM

I'm due northeast about the same distance - close enough. :)

teyber

12-08-2008, 06:17 PM

hes in college in new york i think, tbh not exactly sure where in college... i think he mentioned a 3 hours drive from home or something

loonym

12-10-2008, 12:16 PM

Quick update, Adam has contacted me so hopefully this will all be settled in the near future.

Planet

12-10-2008, 12:46 PM

hes in college in new york i think, tbh not exactly sure where in college... i think he mentioned a 3 hours drive from home or something

Not even more like hour and fort five minutes max.

Hulioni

12-10-2008, 01:18 PM

I think his most recent build log is the one for me. I have a current cell #. I get voice mail. Contact was good until the end of Sept. and since then nothing. I like the kid, I just want my unit.

Same story for my unit loonym. Great contact and pics of the build and then nothing. Last pm he sent was that my unit was truly done this time and would ship that weekend (weekend before Halloween). He started my build way back in April this year and still I've got nothing same as you. I hope that someone can get in contact with him and get these issues settled in a nice way. Things happen, but damn it's been 3/4 of a year already.

Blazing fire

12-11-2008, 06:30 AM

Hulioni, why don't you show twilyth the photo and see if they match.

@loonym, hope everything smoothness out and everybody will be happy.

twilyth

12-11-2008, 07:38 AM

Hulioni, why don't you show twilyth the photo and see if they match.

@loonym, hope everything smoothness out and everybody will be happy.

Ruh? Photo? It's not like I'm a hitman you know. OK, I'm retired, but let's not quibble. :D

phelan1777

12-11-2008, 09:40 AM

Well I mean we all saw the Sopranos right and that was based in Jersey, and after all Jersey is in between Philly and New York and we all know how popular Mobs and associated crimes are synonymous with those cities:D

Movieman

12-11-2008, 09:42 AM

I spoke with Adam last night. Seems he's laid up in the hospital.
Will keep all advised as to what is going on as I hear from him.

Planet

12-30-2008, 08:58 PM

Karmas a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: isnt it

billdavis

01-01-2009, 06:01 AM

are there any studys on phase builders and hospital visits?

l33t p1mp

01-01-2009, 08:25 PM

I heard ben333 talked to NoL the other day and that he was in a car accident and is getting better. Thats just something I heard from ben, and he can be quite drunk at times.

That means its just a rumor, and that it's most likely not true.

Movieman

01-01-2009, 09:05 PM

I spoke to Adam by email yesterday and he's planning to be home Jan4 and deal with this.

Hulioni

01-02-2009, 12:20 AM

Well if indeed he was injured in a car accident I hope him a speedy recovery. I've still not had any contact with him on mine since before Halloween :shrug:. Hope to hear from him soon and get this all taken care of.

ACE76

01-07-2009, 09:35 AM

Just to give people here a little insight...after getting burned myself in the past, I decided if I was going to buy anything from anyone, I was going to have a legal contract drawn up. I apoke with Adam about a build a while back and after telling him about the contract he seemed a little taken back...but he agreed and afterwards, he thought it was a great idea and wanted to use my contract with other customers.

I mailed him the contract and that was the nonsense began. He claimed he never got it so I mailed it again, registered and he said the same. I then e-mailed it to him and he was supposed to print, sign and mail back to me and he never did...that was the end of communication. I can only assume that once a person is willing to get legal contracts involved and they know your address, it makes the seller think twice about taking someone's hard earned money. I'm not bashing Adam or even saying he is screwing anyone. If he is in the hospital, I hope he gets better and finishes up the work he owes people.

I think legal contracts for the sale of units should be strongly encouraged and the moderators here should post up some templates that can be used as a guidline for sellers and buyers. Just a thought.

phelan1777

01-07-2009, 10:25 AM

I think legal contracts for the sale of units should be strongly encouraged and the moderators here should post up some templates that can be used as a guidline for sellers and buyers. Just a thought.

The Mods/Admins here are in no way bound to any transaction that happens between two parties.

They might be able to help one party contact another but in no way are responsible for the action of either party.

There for they don't have to involve themselves if they choose not to.

runmc

01-07-2009, 11:37 AM

I think legal contracts for the sale of units should be strongly encouraged and the moderators here should post up some templates that can be used as a guideline for sellers and buyers. Just a thought.
Actually we don't even want to know about any ones business.

The Mods/Admins here are in no way bound to any transaction that happens between two parties.

They might be able to help one party contact another but in no way are responsible for the action of either party.

There for they don't have to involve themselves if they choose not to.
you got that right buddy :up:

twilyth

01-07-2009, 11:49 AM

The Mods/Admins here are in no way bound to any transaction that happens between two parties.

They might be able to help one party contact another but in no way are responsible for the action of either party.

There for they don't have to involve themselves if they choose not to.

Except that from what I've heard, there have been people here who have had many outstanding complaints - valid, documented complaints - and were still allowed access to the forum. If someone is following through on only one job for every 5 they're getting paid for, then XS has a responsibility to limit the access of such people. It's no different than how we handle spam. Spammers are shot on sight partly because they disrupt the forum but also because we know that 99% of the time they are scams.

I believe in giving people the benefit of the the doubt, but if someone really is in a bad way and wants to make amends, then they should demonstrate that FIRST before they are allowed to continue to prey on other forum members.

phelan1777

01-07-2009, 01:06 PM

Except that from what I've heard, there have been people here who have had many outstanding complaints - valid, documented complaints - and were still allowed access to the forum. If someone is following through on only one job for every 5 they're getting paid for, then XS has a responsibility to limit the access of such people. It's no different than how we handle spam. Spammers are shot on sight partly because they disrupt the forum but also because we know that 99% of the time they are scams.

I believe in giving people the benefit of the the doubt, but if someone really is in a bad way and wants to make amends, then they should demonstrate that FIRST before they are allowed to continue to prey on other forum members.

I agree with you Twilyth. Just saying that the admin/mods are not responsible for dealing with these type of situations in that yes they can make efforts to force the offender and the victim to communicate but they are not obligated in any or can be held legally responsible if someone short changes someone. It states that in the T&C and in the 4sell section.

Any transactions between members are not the fault/liability of XS and its Admins/Mods.

A former mod/admin here screwed over people and yes it was taken care of cause the person was thought to be a key element of XS but legally speaking no one could take any legal action against XS.

However yes some Admin/Mods may step in and try to help, but that is solely a case by case/person basis.

If something happened to me I would ask the help of a Mod/Admin here but I know not to expect it.

There fore as my original point saying that the staff SHOULD do something isn't going to make them change their policy/procedures as stated in the previous post.

i.e

I think legal contracts for the sale of units should be strongly encouraged and the moderators here should post up some templates that can be used as a guidline for sellers and buyers. Just a thought.

NaeKuh

01-08-2009, 01:55 PM

I think legal contracts for the sale of units should be strongly encouraged and the moderators here should post up some templates that can be used as a guidline for sellers and buyers. Just a thought.

XS rules clearly say:

Only pre-built phase-change coolers can be sold in XtremeSystems Forums (XS) and strictly in the area of the
XtremeSystems Forums > For Sale / Classifieds > For Sale > Cooling

Pre-built means finished phase-change coolers that are finished, tested and ready to be shipped to the potential buyers.

Guys its in the phase section you should read the sticky.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155557

If you do it, its obviously behind the Admins/Mods back. So yeah its totally there call if they want to help you or not.

If you get caught they will give you a can of whoop ass.

<--- guilty of recieving a can of whoop ass once. :rofl:

Wont ever make that same mistake again.

ultralo1

01-10-2009, 08:33 AM

It has always been "Buyer Beware". It doesnt matter if it is a phase cooler or a car.
It is only good business to have a contract, it is done in all forms of business.
A quick search will provide you with templates. They should include price, what you get for that price, any warranties, and a cancelation clause. Some other things would be time tables, prepayments, and penalties.

I personally have been bitten because I did not have a contract. I have also bitten some one because we did have a contract. I dont do business without one.
Both parties need to read it and UNDERSTAND it fully.

If you choose not to use a contract then dont come here screaming that you got ripped off. It is your money/services so protect it.

twilyth

01-10-2009, 10:24 AM

A contract is always a good thing to have but it doesn't really protect you - as bizarre as that sounds.

If the other party violates the contract, all it gives you is a cause of action - i.e., the right to bring an action in a court of law. You still have to prosecute the action. And while you can do that pro se (on your own, without a lawyer) you still have the expense of filing and service/process fees. That won't usually amount to much, but even so.

If the person lives outside your jurisdiction, then service of process becomes more of an issue. But even worse, if you get a judgment, you then have to try to enforce it in the other jurisdiction. Good luck with that.

Contracts are great for helping avoid misunderstandings but they are by no means a crucifix that will keep you from being sucked dry. :)

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 05:43 PM

Hello all! First off, major thanks to Dave (Movieman) and a few other forum members on the numberless amount of forums I was/am on for helping me get back to this point. A few months back I was creamed in a car accident, short story, braked suddenly for someone slamming their breaks and was smashed in the back left, after getting a rather nice spraying of glass I had my shoulder and arm mashed as the transmission came through up into the car as well as the nameless amounts of crunching caused by the F150's impact.

However after a long amount of time out (literally out), and a long hospital stay, I have been in recovery and physical therapy (traction in this case).
With Dave's help I was able to get a bit of information but I still need a bit more, I currently believe I have two outstanding build's. Loonym and Houlini. Movieman has gotten me the information for Loonym, thank you on that one, and your cascade is next on the bench (is most likely within a days work of finish, then cosmetics and shipment).

Since I am still basically unable to work, I have sourced out private HVAC help, and am paying an "employee" by the day to do brazing and system work. Brought the man up to speed on what I did and all, and I must say I am impressed with his brazing ability and ability to move things around, then again I feel sometimes for what I'm paying him a private monkey/butler might be better suited. Houlini your system is completely ready for shipment, however I have gone ahead as I feel that I owe you greatly, to do a few little upgrades. First off I built you a completely DIFFERENT system. Upped you from a 3/4hp rotary to a 1.125hp rotary. Added a few other features, and will be including a K type digital display that is bench style, and should prove useful in your benching needs. The system has also been tuned for 275W, and pulls in nicely around -42C at that load. It maintains 240W at -45C without a problem, and has enough charge that there's still ice on the accumulator at 275W, so hopefully it should hold you more then enough. Sub 50W comes in around -62C and colder. Hopefully you will enjoy this. I've also changed the mounting structure and electrical systems to something you'll find nicer, as well as the fan assembly. (Watch your fingers though mate, you'll see why). I need your address. As you waited way to long for this system, I will leave final payment completely up to you, if you find my build quality is up to snuff, and feel like you want to pay any amount of the final payment, that's fine, if you feel that you shouldn't have to pay the final 35%, that's also just fine with me. However I will ship it to you, you can inspect and play, but if you could recompensate me for shipping and handling once you are satisfied that would be much appreciated, I am after all a student with costs of living and now medical expenses and this would be much appreciated. I will be posting pictures of your system in the main section in a few minutes, typing this is a bit slow with one arm.

Oh and the system is quite quiet ;) Enjoy, your getting an awesome unit. If you could PM me your address, or check your box incase you don't see this, that would be great.

--

Onto Loonym! I started the HVAC Tech with Houlini's because I felt a cascade might not be the best place to start, even if we do just need to source a tiny leak out on the first stage and pretty her up. I will also be including some more goodies to your system, and am again sorry for how this turned out.

Thank you guys for understanding and major thanks to everyone (especially those that visited me!)

--

Oh and Naekuh! Movieman reminded me I still have your system! Don't worry I haven't forgot, I will ship that back as soon as I package it back up (my workshop has literally be in statis in a sense). If it's not too huge a problem, I hope you understand that I will try and do this as soon as I finish my contracts with these two here.

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 05:46 PM

On another note, I totally understand the removal of my XIP status, I certainly did not ever intend on bringing about any distaste or problems to the XS staff. However at this time my PM box has been greatly reduced, and I'm about 2500 messages over the limit. So anyone that PM's me, your going to have to wait a few as I transfer all my information (almost every transaction I've ever done here) to a notepad system.

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 05:57 PM

Just wiped the inbox, all clean now, feel free to PM.

sdumper

01-12-2009, 06:04 PM

Adam hope you get to feeling better and hopefully building again you do great work!!

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 06:10 PM

It'll be along time before I pick up the torch for major work, i'm rather far behind on my medical school work, it's been a major battle between maintaining GPA and maintaining sanity. Thank you very much Scott.

loonym

01-12-2009, 07:11 PM

To all involved in this thread, thanks for your interest and to those who helped (you know who you are), big shout! As I stated earlier I had been in contact with Adam. I was aware of his circumstances but did not feel it was my place to post his private affairs. As far as the posts about xs rules, I knew them and that's why this transaction was done completely seperate from xs. You won't find any reference to any deal between nol and myself in any threads with the exception of this one and I used this section for what I hope is it's intended purpose. To the gentleman who pm'd me asking for nol's contact info, I'm sorry if you feel I snubbed you, that wasn't my intention. I wasn't comfortable giving more than an email unless I was privy to full details, which of course a third party rarely is nor should be. Adam, I'm glad to hear you're doing better although it's gotta suck watching someone else do your thing :D

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 07:19 PM

Makes me want to torch HIM, especially when he messes up and I yell at him :P Then again it has it's upside's when the guys burns himself :P (Joking guys, I'm not that sadistic). Thank you again Loonym for understanding. As for anyone who needs to contact me, email and PM please. PM if you want my email.

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 07:30 PM

Also to all my ol' pals, my MSN messenger has changed, if you want it PM.

teyber

01-12-2009, 08:49 PM

Also to all my ol' pals, my MSN messenger has changed, if you want it PM.

if you ever want to get your :banana::banana::banana::banana: horribly embarrassed again in counter strike source just lmk :rofl:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3199840&postcount=1

anyone?

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 09:05 PM

Considering the aim bot you were running, and considering I still got five, you better watch ur smug ass.

teyber

01-12-2009, 10:09 PM

Considering the aim bot you were running, and considering I still got five, you better watch ur smug ass.

hehe we shall chat on msn about this matter :rofl: i re-purchased css so i can play you on vac servers now too :up:

NaeKuh

01-12-2009, 10:58 PM

Oh and Naekuh! Movieman reminded me I still have your system! Don't worry I haven't forgot, I will ship that back as soon as I package it back up (my workshop has literally be in statis in a sense). If it's not too huge a problem, I hope you understand that I will try and do this as soon as I finish my contracts with these two here.

Adam...

i hope you get a full recovery man.

I heard what happened and i told dave, i hope he's all right.

:up:

You know me, im like a rock with patience. I just hoped you didnt forget about my TEC blocks. (there kinda irreplaceable). :yepp:

Oh i may send you something little to help with the recovery after i get my stuff back too. Make sure you leave me your mailing address so i can send you a get well basket.

n00b 0f l337

01-12-2009, 11:03 PM

Haha I've got a get well basket from ya already, no more get well baskets. I've got more food then I can eat :P
Thanks though Naekuh, the thought is appreciated. Hop me your address and I'll get it packed.

[XC] gomeler

01-13-2009, 10:01 AM

Damn shame on the arm Adam, I hope you recover well. Looking forward to seeing what you can build with another guy doing the brazing.

n00b 0f l337

01-13-2009, 10:53 AM

Yep, it's good that I've been able to write with both for years though; then I'd really be doomed.
Setting up the N2, 350psi should show me a leak if it exists.

l33t p1mp

01-13-2009, 01:19 PM

Yep, it's good that I've been able to write with both for years though; then I'd really be doomed.
Setting up the N2, 350psi should show me a leak if it exists.

ARMS Adam, ARMS! Must still be under shock... :shrug: Get well soon man.

n00b 0f l337

01-13-2009, 03:26 PM

Wait what? I've been able to write with both hands/arms for years, broke my collarbone like 9 back and had to learn to write with my left.

Renegade5399

01-14-2009, 04:23 AM

Damn NOL! Talk about crap luck. Get better soon buddy.

PS: Get any good pain meds? Tee hee.

n00b 0f l337

01-14-2009, 01:32 PM

Good ones like you can't even begin to imagine ;)

Renegade5399

01-15-2009, 03:22 AM

/me is jealous!

loonym

02-25-2009, 12:10 PM

Another disappearing act? Adam, I really need you to contact me ASAP or I'll have no alternative but to explore other options for recovery of this large sum of money I paid you. :down:

Ozzfest05

02-26-2009, 12:09 PM

yeah loonym he was on alot lately like through end of december and early january time literally posting or making new threads every hour now I havent seen him around for a month or so, best of luck man

GeorgeStorm

02-26-2009, 12:16 PM

Really sorry loonym,
I hope its just that he cant access it or something, rather than him being unpleasant/downright rude/bit of a scouser, :P
Hope you get your money back, (or rather get your setup, but with some extras as he promised)

NaeKuh

02-28-2009, 11:30 AM

Gah, yeah loonym i realized he went MIA again.

So i asked dave, to look into it.

He has some TEC blocks of mine, i kinda want them back now, but im expecting the worst of never seeing them again.

Nol, dude, lets stay civil, at least let me have my stuff back (theres no finishing involved), i'll even pay for all shipping and packaging charges. Just drop them off at fedex and send me or dave a bill and you'll get funds very shortly.

loonym

02-28-2009, 11:56 PM

I originally did this to have fun. To take my mind off a very grave and depressing personal situation I'm facing. All the fun went out of this for me some time ago and was replaced with worry, regret, and stress. Like I don't already have enough of that in my life. I don't even have 775 stuff anymore and at this point I'm just trying to keep from losing my ass and my face at the same time. I feel more every day like I've been played for a fool. Adam, if you have other obligations ahead of mine please take care of them first. Obligations are not to be taken lightly where I come from. If you're in a bind and you need more time, then by all means, explain it to me and I'll work with you, but we need a higher level of communication and honesty here.

Raja@ASUS

03-06-2009, 01:46 AM

He has online access, or at least someone with his login details does.

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=180

later

[XC] riptide

03-06-2009, 05:06 AM

He has online access, or at least someone with his login details does.

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=180

later

Buddy. Non members can't see. Screenshot?

Praz

03-06-2009, 05:11 AM

riptide;3699041']Buddy. Non members can't see. Screenshot?
Screenshot.

Raja@ASUS

03-06-2009, 06:11 AM

Thx john, you got there b4 me.

Actually if you guys like, take a look at the forum main page and you'll see he logged in ( Total members that have visited the forum today:)

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/index.php

You don't need to be a member to see that area.

Praz

03-06-2009, 06:39 AM

Any little bit I can do to help. These same issues have now been spanning years. Should have been stopped long ago.

twilyth

03-06-2009, 06:55 AM

Filing a small claims court action in NJ is pretty easy but you would probably want to do it in Maine. Even so, he probably wouldn't show up, you'd get a default judgment and then you'd still have to try to enforce it - which is tough when someone is judgment proof - i.e., no money, no assets. And with the namby pamby laws we have, it's not like you can force him to sell a kidney or anything. :shrug:

CyberDruid

03-06-2009, 07:09 AM

Or an arm.

runmc

03-06-2009, 09:46 AM

Screenshot.

That's not Adam - It's a friends of his named Robert. Adam is out of town or out of pocket. I didn't get details.

I think Adam is due back soon, from where I don't know. Maybe a little more time?? :shrug:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95942&stc=1&d=1236345073

twilyth

03-06-2009, 09:56 AM

That's not Adam - It's a friends of his named Robert. Adam is out of town or out of pocket. I didn't get details.

I think Adam is due back soon, from where I don't know. Maybe a little more time?? :shrug:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95942&stc=1&d=1236345073

How long has it been already? I thought we were up to 6 mos or so. And then there's the guy from overseas. Maybe I'm thinking of him. :shrug:

Raja@ASUS

03-06-2009, 11:14 AM

That's not Adam - It's a friends of his named Robert. Adam is out of town or out of pocket. I didn't get details.

I think Adam is due back soon, from where I don't know. Maybe a little more time?? :shrug:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95942&stc=1&d=1236345073

Damn, that's the first I've heard of this Robert dude. Looking back over the thread history of that account has Adam written all over the projects and builds. I guess this Robert guy now has Adam's login??

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=13653&postcount=5

regards
Raja

runmc

03-06-2009, 03:34 PM

Damn, that's the first I've heard of this Robert dude. Looking back over the thread history of that account has Adam written all over the projects and builds. I guess this Robert guy now has Adam's login??

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=13653&postcount=5

regards
Raja

I think Robert was just browsing builds to learn more. :up:

Raja@ASUS

03-06-2009, 11:26 PM

Oh gotcha. Learning on demand of sorts...lol

Thanks for clearing it up Ron.

off topic, did you get the info you wanted on the Classified BIOS? If not LMK and I'll send you what I have.

regards
Raja

NaeKuh

04-23-2009, 10:43 AM

[XC] gomeler

04-23-2009, 11:42 AM

Classified bios???? :D

Any of you guys hear from nol?

We lost a few posts on this thread in the data loss. I am taking over this build and will push it out the door as fast as safely possible. Waiting on images of the current state of the cascade and specifications. Sent him my shipping address, waiting to hear back.

NaeKuh

04-23-2009, 11:58 AM

gomeler when you talk to him can you remind him i also want my stuff back as well?

[XC] gomeler

04-23-2009, 12:19 PM

I'm not a messenger, sorry. I won't get involved with anything past this cascade. I will however forward along the email address I've been contacting him with.

Ozzfest05

04-23-2009, 01:05 PM

this thread has nothing to do with me I have just been watching it hoping this would get resolved, now he has got one of the best builders on the forum completing it, I know Gom will do a great Job!

[XC] gomeler

04-23-2009, 01:29 PM

this thread has nothing to do with me I have just been watching it hoping this would get resolved, now he has got one of the best builders on the forum completing it, I know Gom will do a great Job!

I'm hardly one of the best. I'm a college student with a college student budget. I am just very creative with what little I have available to me :cool:

Ozzfest05

04-23-2009, 02:04 PM

well skill with the work is a Minor detail in my mind , I would rather have a decent builder skill wise that keeps contact, is friendly and gives you an enjoyable experience then someone who is the master of phase but a real jack @ss if you know what I mean.

sdumper

04-24-2009, 08:23 AM

Chris your work is top notch and your also one of the most trust worthy people I have met in awhile.

Movieman

04-24-2009, 09:07 AM

Chris your work is top notch and your also one of the most trust worthy people I have met in awhile.

Watches gomeler's head expand to fill the entire room!:D

loonym

04-27-2009, 08:35 AM

Any of you guys hear from nol?I have been in contact with him by email in the past couple days. If you need that addy you can pm me.

When I found out Chris would be doing this I was quite relieved that the end might be in sight. I haven't been around much because I'm a bit under the weather and preparing for another round of treatments beginning next week.

[XC] gomeler

04-29-2009, 08:52 AM

Supposedly being shipped to me this weekend, we will see. If I receive it next week I'll have a few days I can work on it in a row. Will be interesting to see how he did this.

loonym

04-29-2009, 06:51 PM

Unfortunately the photos in the build thread are gone and I didn't save any.

loonym

05-05-2009, 08:49 AM

I've heard a rumor that the unit is on it's way to Chris? Can it be true? Just when I was having a bad day this comes along. I love how that works. ;)

[XC] gomeler

05-05-2009, 10:44 AM

Tracking information updated earlier this morning, the cascade will be here tomorrow. I'll snap as many pictures as possible and tear into it tomorrow.

teyber

05-05-2009, 12:26 PM

I've heard a rumor that the unit is on it's way to Chris? Can it be true? Just when I was having a bad day this comes along. I love how that works. ;)

nol made a thread on a new project over at benchtec.co.uk btw :up: it might be true! :D

Movieman

05-05-2009, 12:29 PM

nol made a thread on a new project over at benchtec.co.uk btw :up: it might be true! :D

link please? Thanks
sorry, found it...

Deux

05-05-2009, 03:59 PM

He is back at OCX as well. No build log there yet.

Hopefully the unit arrives in good shape, glad to see it finally moving forward :up:

[XC] gomeler

05-06-2009, 06:49 AM

Just cleared off my second desk, everything is prepped and set to go. Have a condenser here for the 2nd stage desuperheater to try and drop system pressures/temps, ordering a CPEV so Loonym can adjust the evap pressures, and ordering a solenoid to incorporate a hot-gas bypass into the evap to quickly warm up the evap. Hopefully this build will have a quick turn-around time, CPEV arrives next week Tuesday, solenoid next week Thursday. Adam says there is a leak somewhere in the system so I'll spend the next week leak-testing and possibly re-piping if necessary.

[XC] gomeler

05-06-2009, 02:31 PM

Cascade has arrived. Unboxed it and it looks like it survived the trip. I have to admit it is very small, about half the size of the the other cascade on my bench. Looking up the compressors, it uses a ~3/4hp Samsung rotary QS072CCA compressor on the 1st stage and one of the ebay ~1/2hp Rechi rotary compressors on the 2nd stage. Capillary on both stages, pressure gauges but it has ports on both stages and thermometers on the HX and evap. There is a solenoid valve on here that dumps from the discharge and looks like it goes to the evap, need to talk to Adam to get information on it.

Heading out for dinner, tomorrow morning I'll tackle this thing and figure out what is wrong. I see no oil so if there is a leak it must be tiny.

edit: can we no longer attach images or do I not have the proper permissions?
double edit: I'm an idiot.
triple edit: can we no longer upload attachments directly to XS?

Movieman

05-06-2009, 02:46 PM

:up:
Use imageshack for the time being..

loonym

05-06-2009, 05:24 PM

Thanks for the update gomeler. :D

[XC] gomeler

05-07-2009, 01:05 PM

Well it sure is hard to leak-test a unit with leaky hoses. My primary gauge set is on my cascade so I whipped out an old set, turns out the seals are beat to crap. The 1st stage fires up fine though, so electrically everything is working. Dumped 200psi into the 1st stage and I have 1 hose connected, let's see if it drops, so far it is holding.

tiborrr

05-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Fingers crossed!

Movieman

05-07-2009, 04:46 PM

Here's where I say a big public THANK YOU to Gomeler!:clap:

wdrzal

05-07-2009, 07:15 PM

Here's where I say a big public THANK YOU to Gomeler!:clap:

Good things happen to good people,Gomeler you may not get re-paid next week or month,but someday down the road you defentily will. Probably by a complety unrelated factor.

I'm a beliver of what goes around ,comes around.....Do good deeds and Good things happen.......You'll do well in Life Gomeler. :up::up::up:

Walt

[XC] gomeler

05-08-2009, 08:15 AM

200psi held for ~18 hours. I'm going to pull the CO2 out of the system, vac down, and dump 90psi of r22 into the 1st stage. Going to leave a ball-valve on the suction valve so I can quickly gauge up to the 1st stage and move on to the 2nd stage. Adam mentioned it might have just been a sticky valve on the 1st stage, looks like that may have been the case. Hope all this thing needs is a tune :up:

Movieman

05-08-2009, 08:24 AM

gomeler;3777556']200psi held for ~18 hours. I'm going to pull the CO2 out of the system, vac down, and dump 90psi of r22 into the 1st stage. Going to leave a ball-valve on the suction valve so I can quickly gauge up to the 1st stage and move on to the 2nd stage. Adam mentioned it might have just been a sticky valve on the 1st stage, looks like that may have been the case. Hope all this thing needs is a tune :up:

:cheer: Go Chris Go! :cheer::D

[XC] gomeler

05-08-2009, 10:04 AM

There is a pinhole leak somewhere in the 1st stage. It doesn't lose any discernible amount of gas but it slowly loses vacuum. Had it vacuuming for 2 hours, closed the valves and shut off the pump and it slowly started to pressurize, not good. Tearing all the insulation apart now.

CyberDruid

05-08-2009, 10:35 AM

Who's excited? I'm excited. Glad to see this coming around.

NaeKuh

05-08-2009, 01:24 PM

i have also gotten back all my stuff!

thanks Nol.

[XC] gomeler

05-08-2009, 01:37 PM

Found some oil inside the HX insulation near the bottom, looks like that is where the leak is. Problem is nothing is bubbling up with a toothbrush and soap. It looks like it'll fit in my bathtub so I'm going to dunk the unit after I remove the fan shroud/fan motor and try to pinpoint this leak. There are only 3 joints I suspect but they all look solid *grumble*

loonym

05-08-2009, 01:58 PM

Good things happen to good people,Gomeler you may not get re-paid next week or month,but someday down the road you defentily will. Probably by a complety unrelated factor.

I'm a beliver of what goes around ,comes around.....Do good deeds and Good things happen.......You'll do well in Life Gomeler. :up::up::up:

WaltIt's unfortunate about Adam's troubles but I can't agree more with this evaluation of Chris being one of the good guys. ;)
Who's excited? I'm excited. Glad to see this coming around. Add me to that excited list.
i have also gotten back all my stuff!

thanks Nol.This pleases me, wtg nol! :up:
gomeler;3778110']Found some oil inside the HX insulation near the bottom, looks like that is where the leak is. Problem is nothing is bubbling up with a toothbrush and soap. It looks like it'll fit in my bathtub so I'm going to dunk the unit after I remove the fan shroud/fan motor and try to pinpoint this leak. There are only 3 joints I suspect but they all look solid *grumble*When he first mentioned this leak way back, I knew it was gonna be one of those tough to track ones. I guess they never got to the point of rebrazing joints. Thanks once again Gomeler :D

Ozzfest05

05-08-2009, 02:05 PM

cant wait to see the progress on this buil

runmc

05-08-2009, 02:45 PM

My hats off to ya Chris. Your taking on a big job!! :eek: Hope you didn't bite off more than you want to chew. :D

Buckeye

05-08-2009, 03:17 PM

Chris I told you at GOOC about how I feel with reguards to helpping as many people out as you have, and are doing now.

But... Thanks again, You Rock !

[XC] gomeler

05-09-2009, 10:04 AM

Dude... no way. So yesterday afternoon I dunked the cascade into big tub of water and let it sit after knocking off all the bubbles from the piping. I went out to dinner, came back, and saw nothing. Too tired to remove the cascade, I went to bed. I woke up, started my day, looked at the cascade and it looked all normal. 20 minutes ago I heard a bubbling noise. Whatever the leak was, it took 24 hours under water for it to show but now it is bubbling away like a gaping hole. Looks like the hole is where the suction exits from the HX with the 1/2" copper to steel connection. Draining the tub and working on fixing this now. Glad I found the leak this way, the next step was to tear it apart and test the hx and condenser separately.

runmc

05-09-2009, 12:17 PM

gomeler;3779424']Dude... no way. So yesterday afternoon I dunked the cascade into big tub of water and let it sit after knocking off all the bubbles from the piping. I went out to dinner, came back, and saw nothing. Too tired to remove the cascade, I went to bed. I woke up, started my day, looked at the cascade and it looked all normal. 20 minutes ago I heard a bubbling noise. Whatever the leak was, it took 24 hours under water for it to show but now it is bubbling away like a gaping hole. Looks like the hole is where the suction exits from the HX with the 1/2" copper to steel connection. Draining the tub and working on fixing this now. Glad I found the leak this way, the next step was to tear it apart and test the hx and condenser separately.

Man I wish you would have takin some pictures of that. :yepp:

[XC] gomeler

05-09-2009, 12:42 PM

Man I wish you would have takin some pictures of that. :yepp:

I did, waiting to upload to XS. Now that I have the thing out of the water I don't know how I missed this hole. I guess maybe there were some oxides from brazing sealing the hole? It is a 3mm gap where no braze sealed.

bazx

05-09-2009, 12:54 PM

that made me laugh

way to get to the hart of the problem fast

i want to see the images of this

wdrzal

05-09-2009, 01:55 PM

Man I wish you would have takin some pictures of that. :yepp:

I don't know why I laughed harder,a 3mm gap or a cascade in a bath Tub leak tested. :ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:

Buy a inspection mirror,it's a must to be sure the braze flowed completly around the joint. Especially in tight spots or where you have to be carful with the flame heat. After every braze ,out comes the mirror & mini mag light.:up:

Even pin holes are easy to see if you look.

[XC] gomeler

05-09-2009, 05:17 PM

Sent Ron the photos, he's going to upload/host until XS gets it's act straight. It was the strangest leak though, I swear I looked over every braze all the way around and never saw this gap, pretty certain whoever did the brazing did the same thing and just saw a ring of filler metal and oxidized metal. I suspect the water dissolved the oxides enough that the internal pressure blew out the plug. It sure made a nice bubbling racket when it burst. Tomorrow morning I'll braze everything up, I think it'll have dried out sufficiently and start vacuum testing it again. I'll make sure to take a macro shot of the gap tomorrow.

Movieman

05-09-2009, 05:30 PM

Cheerleading section rolls in...
:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:..:up:

[XC] gomeler

05-09-2009, 05:39 PM

Here's the pictures I've snapped so far. I didn't take many as well.. it is just a repair :shrug:

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2326.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2330.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2331.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2333.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2336.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2337.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Loonym%20cascade/IMG_2342.jpg

And yes, I forgot to put a cap on the suction valve on the 1st stage when dunking it but it should be fine *doh* Compressor oxidized a little, so a little sandpaper and spray paint are in need.

Gautam

05-09-2009, 05:46 PM

You own Chris. :up:

teyber

05-10-2009, 08:48 PM

nice find there

phelan1777

05-10-2009, 09:09 PM

Cheerleading section rolls in...
:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:..:up:

<images of MM with pompoms and trying to do a cartwheel!>:rofl::ROTF:

loonym

05-10-2009, 09:23 PM

<images of MM with pompoms and trying to do a cartwheel!>:rofl::ROTF:Why not, since he's already wearing the pink tutu :wave:

You nailed that fast Chris, great second effort with the tank. Really quite remarkable that it held pressure as well as it did throughout all the testing and troubleshooting that's gone on previously. :shrug:

[XC] gomeler

05-11-2009, 02:09 PM

First stage fixed, I think. it is still a little warm from the brazing so waiting for it to drop down to ambient before bubble testing again. Gave it a little extra silver as it looked like two parts of this joint weren't sealed. Will have pictures uploaded later tonight after I leaktest to make sure everything is fine.

edit: Hooked up the vacuum pump and it is still losing vacuum although at a fraction of the speed it was prior. Might have to chop it up still and leak test each component.

teyber

05-11-2009, 02:45 PM

I have leak tested a unit for 2+ weeks at 310psig and it still rose while in a vacuum. WHere is your vacuum gauge? it could be the different levels of vacuum within a system equilizing

[XC] gomeler

05-11-2009, 04:11 PM

I have leak tested a unit for 2+ weeks at 310psig and it still rose while in a vacuum. WHere is your vacuum gauge? it could be the different levels of vacuum within a system equilizing

*doh* Thanks Teyber, you just joggled my mind. Perhaps the decrease in vacuum I'm seeing is refrigerant in the oil coming out? Unlike most builds when the oil is fresh and clean, this oil is laden with refrigerant. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Guess I'll pressurize the system and see if I lose any gas.

teyber

05-11-2009, 04:34 PM

gomeler;3783233']*doh* Thanks Teyber, you just joggled my mind. Perhaps the decrease in vacuum I'm seeing is refrigerant in the oil coming out? Unlike most builds when the oil is fresh and clean, this oil is laden with refrigerant. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Guess I'll pressurize the system and see if I lose any gas.

idk, im more thinking out loud but if your vacuum guage is somewhat close to the vacuum pump, the vacuum is going to be a LOT more sever near the vacuum gauge then in the farthest point in a system isn't it? and like you said, won't bits of water be coming out of the oil when its in that big of a vacuum?

runmc

05-11-2009, 06:50 PM

Hoses will leak a vacuum. Pressure test with nitro. :up:

[XC] gomeler

05-12-2009, 05:50 AM

Leaked 50psi out of 200psi in 12 hours. When I changed the seals on the hoses I pressure tested them and they held 200 psi fine. It looks like another leak, guess I'll dunk the system again. This is becoming a nightmare :doh:

Ozzfest05

05-12-2009, 06:36 AM

omg that sucks I was really hoping to hear that luck was on your side today, maybe tomorrow???

[XC] gomeler

05-12-2009, 06:52 AM

Grabbing the tooth brush and soap and soaping all the joints. If this doesn't work I'll dunk it again, and if that doesn't work then I'll chop off the HX and condenser and pressure test them separately.

[XC] gomeler

05-12-2009, 03:00 PM

Been dunked for an hour now, it has been losing roughly 7 psi per hour and yet I see no bubbles... wtf? I'm getting close to the point of bashing this thing with a sledge hammer and starting over. Maybe the HX is compromised internally and leaking into the 2nd stage? Going to leave it overnight again.

pythagoras

05-12-2009, 03:55 PM

gomeler;3784997']Been dunked for an hour now, it has been losing roughly 7 psi per hour and yet I see no bubbles... wtf? I'm getting close to the point of bashing this thing with a sledge hammer and starting over. Maybe the HX is compromised internally and leaking into the 2nd stage? Going to leave it overnight again.

Put guages on both if you have an internal leak the sum of the two pressures will be equal, however on will increase and one will decrease.

If one or both are decreasing without an equal increase in the other you have an external leak.

regards

john.

[XC] gomeler

05-12-2009, 04:12 PM

Put guages on both if you have an internal leak the sum of the two pressures will be equal, however on will increase and one will decrease.

If one or both are decreasing without an equal increase in the other you have an external leak.

regards

john.

Yup, that is the next step, problem is the valves are currently under 6 inches of water :D

edit: hefted the thing out of the water and hooked up gauges to both stages. 1st stage is at 140psi, 2nd stage is at 10 psi. I've regassed the 1st stage twice to 200psi, so it isn't leaking between stages otherwise the 2nd stage would have risen considerably.

I dunked my gauges also while hooked up to the cascade, no leaks there, so I'm thoroughly stumped. No visible bubbles, everything is under water, and yet it is still losing gas. Could it be leaking from such a small pinhole that the bubbles would dissolve into the water and not form bubbles when soapy water is applied?

wdrzal

05-12-2009, 05:14 PM

When doing a bubble test you will have lots of small bubbles 1/16" to 1/8 " that don't grow in size. What you look for is the one that grows slowly to the size of a grape,maybe larger,depends of the surface tension of the soap or leak detector solution.

When you see one growing in size,you found the leak,it may take a couple to ten minutes just to get grape sized for a real small pinhole leak.

Put 350psi of nitrogen in both stages,the leak should show.

Inspect the joints visually, If it looks like the braze didn't flow smoothly there a good chance there a problem there.

[XC] gomeler

05-12-2009, 06:00 PM

tiborrr

05-13-2009, 11:47 PM

Since there are no bubbles - are you sure it's the heat exchanger that's leaking?

Do you have a spare stainless steel suction line extra? Flare the connector, remove the valve core, mount the hose to you manifold and service port with 1/4" SAE nuts, charge 200psi nitrogen and observe.

wdrzal

05-14-2009, 02:27 AM

I noticed on the pic of unit in tub that the insulation was on the suction line and evap. That small leak and the gas will be trapped inside the neoprene. Also notice the control out of the water,check flare on back.

My money (and high probability)is on a tube/joint/evap/suction line noob brazed,or a flare he made. Unless you have leaky hoses or manifold. You need to scrutinize every last connection.

[XC] gomeler

05-14-2009, 04:40 AM

I'm just worried about the 1st stage right now. The 2nd stage is maintaining pressure at 10psi regardless of the 1st stage, so it isn't leaking between stages. The entire 1st stage is under water and I tossed my gauges in there while I was at it, no leaks/bubbles. I'll strip off the remaining flexline and push it all under water but if there is a leak there it doesn't explain why the 1st stage is leaking.

wdrzal

05-14-2009, 09:11 AM

Shouldn't post after being up all night,forgot your working on the first stage.........:shakes:

I wouldn't hold my breath on holding 10 psi.

But leave the insulation on until you pressure test the second stage.

wdrzal

05-14-2009, 09:25 AM

You know this Builder/customer relations thread is turing into a Fix-it thread. Maybe Start a new Thread in phase cooling for this unit and when fixed come back and update here.

The message is getting lost with all the advice.:down: Every time I hit "submit" I fell guilty posting here in this section.:yepp:

Just my thoughts.

[XC] gomeler

05-14-2009, 10:17 AM

Scott dropped off his leak detector and it is freaking out around another joint near the one I repaired. There are two reducers and a coupling in this region so it makes sense for this thing to freak out here. I'm going to try and remove the suction line on the 1st stage from the HX to the original solid copper and put in a single piece of copper to remove all these questionable joints.

loonym

05-14-2009, 12:34 PM

This is all making me very glad I don't have this here. Thanks again. :D

tiborrr

05-14-2009, 12:53 PM

Great news gom and thanks once again to sdumper for lending you his leak detector! :up:

runmc

05-14-2009, 03:01 PM

My hats off to ya Chris. Your taking on a big job!! :eek: Hope you didn't bite off more than you want to chew. :D

I quote myself :clap:

ultralo1

05-14-2009, 07:28 PM

Electronic leak detector. If your using just nitrogen it shouldnt pick up. Unless it an ultrasonic detector.

Check the pressure switch. the bellows in them will go bad and leak.

[XC] gomeler

05-15-2009, 06:14 AM

Electronic leak detector. If your using just nitrogen it shouldnt pick up. Unless it an ultrasonic detector.

Check the pressure switch. the bellows in them will go bad and leak.

I charged the system with 100psi of R22 for the leak detector.

tiborrr

05-15-2009, 06:24 AM

R22? Shhhhhh, don't let EPA guys hear ya :D

Gunslinger

05-15-2009, 11:10 AM

R22? Shhhhhh, don't let EPA guys hear ya :D

We make 160,000 lbs. per day of R22 where I work. :yepp:

[XC] gomeler

05-16-2009, 06:31 PM

Think the leaks are taken care of. It was holding vacuum for 3 hours, pressurizing it now and going to let it sit over night. If there is a leak 12 hours at 200psi should show.

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 07:32 AM

*face palm* lost a little over 12 psi. Ripping out the HX and starting over with a fresh HX and fresh copper pipe.

tiborrr

05-17-2009, 09:04 AM

Smart idea, now trash that HX, relax, drink a beer and re-braze.

Best wishes & good luck with re-build,
Niko

wdrzal

05-17-2009, 09:37 AM

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 09:45 AM

^^^^^ I don't completly agree. You need to isolate (find) the leak. Otherwise your just guessing where it is. You may trash a good HX and find you still have a leak.

Try buying some leak finder solution from a hvac shop. It hangs on better than soap & water.

I'm not trashing the HX. I'm going going to remove the HX, seal off the suction and capillary tube, and pressure test. If it holds pressure then it is one of the ~5 joints near the HX suction port. I will then cut out the copper like I had originally planned and start over with 1 smooth piece of copper.

wdrzal

05-17-2009, 11:40 AM

Ya the tube plumbing wasn't fit well or neat. Guess you got to start some place.

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 12:44 PM

Pressure testing each component separately right now. The condenser passed 2 hours at 200psi, so it is leak free in my book. Now testing the HX, it is at 195 psi but looks to be dropping.

edit: 5psi in 30 minutes, yikes. Time to chop out the HX from the 2nd stage and braze up another HX.

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 01:59 PM

Decided to just work with a new HX and tear the old one apart when I have time. 1/2" copper is set, just crimping the appropriate other things in place so I can braze it all in at once.

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 03:20 PM

HX brazed up. 45 minutes of prep work, 15 minutes of brazing, and 13 brazes done. Holding full vacuum right now, going to leave it this way for an hour and if it passes then I'm brazing this :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: back together and vacuuming down the first stage overnight.

Snapped more pictures today, mostly of the HX joints. When this entire thing is complete I'm posting a rebuild log. Hopefully we'll be frosting up the 1st stage in 24 hours.

tiborrr

05-17-2009, 03:44 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/suicidalttoast/4chan/GREAT_SUCCESS.png

Great success Borat, err... gom! :D

The question is - who is gonna pay you for all of the good work you have done. Once again my hat goes off to you.

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 04:25 PM

I love that image :D

Great success Borat, err... gom! :D

The question is - who is gonna pay you for all of the good work you have done. Once again my hat goes off to you.

Nobody. Adam is sending me some extra parts and such, good enough for me. Just bent the suction line piping, now to braze the HX back into the build.

just spent some time looking at the piping setup of this.. I'm stuffing both compressors in one half of the case to isolate the heat and putting the control electronics and HX in the other half of the case. This will also give me room to insert the desuperheater I had planned for the 2nd stage in hopes of pulling some additional performance out of this setup.

Ozzfest05

05-17-2009, 04:54 PM

Gom im happy to hear things are coming together cant wait to see this thing pull down to tripple digits

[XC] gomeler

05-17-2009, 04:56 PM

Gom im happy to hear things are coming together cant wait to see this thing pull down to tripple digits

won't happen with these compressors. I'm aiming for -80C with a decent load. Trying to find a way to mount the 2nd compressor, think I need to fab some standoffs to lift the compressor up a little.

Movieman

05-17-2009, 06:59 PM

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 05:19 AM

Dave did hook me up with some cash, but I won't be taking anymore. Just needed enough for shipping :up:

1st stage held vacuum all through the night, didn't budge. Pressurizing now and I'll start work on the 2nd stage in an hour or so.

EvoCarlos

05-18-2009, 09:40 AM

gom your doing a great job mate fixin up someone else's bodge
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k262/evocarlos/water%20cooled/airwell%20ac/verynice.gif

will you fixing all of nol's units as i see now your fixing this one hes starting a new one it dont seam right to me that hes got no time for this unit but he is building a new one

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3908

if it were me and this was my unit i would go round his house and fist f&&k him all the way up to my elbow and see how he likes to be f...'d about:ROTF::ROTF:

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 09:48 AM

1st stage done pressure testing.
http://twitpic.com/5fpno

2nd stage mocked up.
http://twitpic.com/5fqi3

Class in an hour, when I get back I'll insulate up the 1st stage, braze in the 2nd stage, and hopefully pressure test the 2nd stage by the time the 24 season finale comes on :up: The way I'm packing everything in there I need to insulate the 1st stage as it'll be inaccessible with the 2nd stage. God I hope I don't end up with a leak :D

tiborrr

05-18-2009, 10:14 AM

@Carl:
I agree with you, I am trully dissapointed with NoL taking on another build while gomeler struggles with issues which NoL created himself :(

@gom:
Fingers crossed for your machine to pass leak-test! :up:

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 11:09 AM

Done piping this thing together. This is like a game of Pipe Mania trying to make all this work. Investing in a pipe bender for 1/4" now..

http://twitpic.com/5fvu5

Taking a short break before I insulate up the 1st and 2nd stage accumulators/suction lines and then braze up the discharge side of the 2nd stage. Going to assemble everything and drop in the 2nd stage desuperheater fan once it arrives.

loonym

05-18-2009, 11:57 AM

Damn, great work. I had intended all along to pay shipping no matter where the thing came from. You gotta let me send you something, ga-x48T-dq6 interest you at all?

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 12:25 PM

Damn, great work. I had intended all along to pay shipping no matter where the thing came from. You gotta let me send you something, ga-x48T-dq6 interest you at all?

I killed half a dozen of those boards in the QX9650 days :p: Don't worry about shipping :up:

Movieman

05-18-2009, 12:33 PM

gomeler;3794997']Dave did hook me up with some cash, but I won't be taking anymore. Just needed enough for shipping :up:

1st stage held vacuum all through the night, didn't budge. Pressurizing now and I'll start work on the 2nd stage in an hour or so.

yes you will..:rofl:
There's an old expression:
"Good things should happen to good people"

To all:
If anyone wants to kick a few bucks towards this to help cover Gomelers costs and time PM me..
I have his paypal address:p:

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 01:11 PM

yes you will..:rofl:
There's an old expression:
"Good things should happen to good people"

To all:
If anyone wants to kick a few bucks towards this to help cover Gomelers costs and time PM me..
I have his paypal address:p:

egh, all I'm going to do is buy booze and hookers. Ok, maybe not hookers, but definitely booze. Err.. maybe not booze, definitely LN2. Ok, all I'm going to do is buy LN2 with it :shakes:

Gautam

05-18-2009, 01:31 PM

It's time for a new sig quote. :)

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 03:04 PM

Fumigated myself, roasted some insulation. Brazing is done though, pressure testing right now.

teyber

05-18-2009, 04:11 PM

gomeler;3795944']Fumigated myself, roasted some insulation. Brazing is done though, pressure testing right now.

lol burnt insulation smells like a mixture of oil and hot asian sex :eek: lolwut :ROTF::shakes:

Renegade5399

05-18-2009, 04:37 PM

lol burnt insulation smells like a mixture of oil and hot asian sex :eek: lolwut :ROTF::shakes:

WTF? LOL teyber!

Excellent work gom.

[XC] gomeler

05-18-2009, 06:15 PM

Passed my patent pending 3 hour vacuum test with flying colors. Leaving the vacuum pump to run overnight.

lol burnt insulation smells like a mixture of oil and hot asian sex :eek: lolwut :ROTF::shakes:

Hrm. Don't think my asian exgirlfriend smelled like burnt insulation.

tiborrr

05-19-2009, 05:53 AM

Thank god she didn't :D

Good job gom! :up:

[XC] gomeler

05-19-2009, 08:38 AM

Charged up with 200 psi on both stages. Heading to Home Depot to grab some more insulation. I'm going to hold onto this thing for a week or so once I have it tuned and monitor pressures. However, it has held vacuum properly on both stages so I think it is good to go.

[XC] gomeler

05-19-2009, 10:18 AM

Spoke too soon. Leaked 4psi in 2 hours. Unfortunately I have to prepare for an overclocking event and have packed up all my tools to clear space. I'll be back Saturday and will trace down the leak, so update then. 1st stage is holding pressure just fine though :up:

Buckeye

05-19-2009, 10:58 AM

What event are you heading off to, if you don't mind me asking ?

[XC] gomeler

05-19-2009, 11:29 AM

Under NDA :-\

runmc

05-19-2009, 07:33 PM

wdrzal

05-19-2009, 08:24 PM

[XC] gomeler

05-19-2009, 09:06 PM

I suppose I'm reading this wrong but> what is the sense of pulling a vacuum to leak test and then turn around and pressure test and turn around again and vacuum?
Why don't you just braze it and then slam the pressure to it. If it holds pressure then vacuum. :confused:

Adam's leaky HX held pressure but leaked vacuum. Vacuum was easier to test, turns out now the 2nd stage holds vacuum but leaks ever so slowly. I'm certain I know where the leak is though, there was a 1/4" tee connection in a hard to reach area, chances are I missed something there. Will get back to this on Saturday :up:

tiborrr

05-20-2009, 01:19 AM

Hmm, are you sure your hoses aren't the source of leak, maybe the SAE connectors? :/

[XC] gomeler

05-20-2009, 03:11 AM

Hmm, are you sure your hoses aren't the source of leak, maybe the SAE connectors? :/

I pressure tested my hoses when I started this :up:

wdrzal

05-20-2009, 09:07 AM

Keep in mind while a micron meter is a extremely accurate instrument(hope your using one) 29.92hg is ~14.7 psi differential from atmospheric pressure. So in short a very deep vacuum is a ~14.7 psi pressure test.

tiborrr

05-21-2009, 03:54 AM

GJ Gom on the AMD OC event. I wish i could be invited someday :/

sdumper

05-21-2009, 07:09 PM

Chris i have a supco vg64 you are more than welcome to borrow anything I have just let me know.

--edit-- I am going by united tomorrow to pick up some run/start caps and will swing by just let me know the time.

[XC] gomeler

05-25-2009, 10:40 AM

Back at it. Confirmed that half of the 2nd stage is leak free which just leaves the evaporator and suction line connections. Slowly but surely this thing will be leak free.

before

05-25-2009, 12:18 PM

Good luck mate :)

[XC] gomeler

05-30-2009, 10:31 AM

Was getting paranoid so the suction lineset, and most of the 2nd stage have been sitting pressurized since Monday. They've held pressure with the pressure fluctuating with ambient temps 1-2 psi up and down. Going to double-check the 1st stage now and hopefully braze this thing back together soon.

Movieman

05-30-2009, 10:36 AM

tiborrr

05-31-2009, 12:06 PM

You rock Gom! :up:

loonym

05-31-2009, 01:52 PM

After everything you've done I don't think it's paranoia. A little caution at this point is more than expected. :D

EvoCarlos

06-01-2009, 08:49 AM

gomeler;3798475']Adam's leaky HX held pressure but leaked vacuum. Vacuum was easier to test, turns out now the 2nd stage holds vacuum but leaks ever so slowly. I'm certain I know where the leak is though, there was a 1/4" tee connection in a hard to reach area, chances are I missed something there. Will get back to this on Saturday :up:

i read this and thought about it when you pull vac for only a short time it will creap back up as the gasses are removed from the oil.

oh and is it done yet lol :D

fist and elbow at the ready!!
http://www.overclock.net/phase-change/501878-upcoming-projects-just-showing.html

twilyth

06-01-2009, 08:58 AM

gomeler;3818611']Was getting paranoid so the suction lineset, and most of the 2nd stage have been sitting pressurized since Monday. They've held pressure with the pressure fluctuating with ambient temps 1-2 psi up and down. Going to double-check the 1st stage now and hopefully braze this thing back together soon.

I know nothing about phase, but I know a good man when I see one. Big props for bustin' a nut to help out a friend!!! You da' Man!!!
:eleph: :banana3: :YIPPIE:
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

tiborrr

06-02-2009, 10:07 AM

Got any pics for us, Gom? :)

[XC] gomeler

06-03-2009, 07:38 AM

Apparently we are all prone to mistakes. 1st stage had a pinhole on the HX plugged with flux, shot out at 400 psi :D 1st stage is leak free I believe, time to piece this thing together.

loonym

06-04-2009, 05:27 PM

gomeler;3826382']Apparently we are all prone to mistakes. 1st stage had a pinhole on the HX plugged with flux, shot out at 400 psi :D 1st stage is leak free I believe, time to piece this thing together.See, I told you it wasn't paranoia. :D

fart_plume

06-05-2009, 09:51 AM

It's never paranoia if they are really are out to get you, lol.

[XC] gomeler

06-06-2009, 06:21 AM

Heading to SDumper's place in ~2 hours. Hoping I can quickly figure out what is going on. Update this afternoon for sure.

runmc

06-06-2009, 07:19 AM

gomeler;3832784']Heading to SDumper's place in ~2 hours. Hoping I can quickly figure out what is going on. Update this afternoon for sure.

So what are you trying to figure out Chris? A leak location?

[XC] gomeler

06-06-2009, 08:06 AM

So what are you trying to figure out Chris? A leak location?

I'm still leaking ~2-3 psi per day out of the 1st stage. I've checked my hoses twice in the last week, they don't seem to leak as pressure stays more or less the same with slight flucuations due to temps. At this point I'm tired of doubting my joints, hoses, and gauges. This thing will be done today.

Ozzfest05

06-06-2009, 09:54 AM

I would could the compressor be leaking

[XC] gomeler

06-06-2009, 04:51 PM

It's leak free! 1 valve was leaking and I more or less completely rebuilt the thing again today after chopping out the suction side of the 1st stage and 2nd stage. Huge thanks to SDumper for letting me takeover his garage for an afternoon. First time using an oxy/acetylene setup for brazing, makes a world of a difference. Might be bumming some space from Scott's garage soon :eek:

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2407.JPG

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2408.JPG

Both stages held 450psi. I wanted to go to 500psi but was concerned about the bellows in the 2nd stage high-pressure cutout. I figure 450psi should do it though :up: Once again huge props to SDumper, working in a proper garage beats the hell out of working on my patio. Tomorrow I'll make a trip to Home Depot to pick up insulation and get this baby sealed up. Vacuuming 1st stage tonight, frost tomorrow.

edit: some of the pipework is ugly as hell. Definitely not proud of the piping arragement but I was sort of flying by the seat of my pants. Ended up changing the arrangement again, swapped the 2nd stage desuperheater and the HX, think it fits better and gives me more space for a better 2nd stage fan.

Ashraf

06-06-2009, 04:56 PM

I know nothing about phase, but I know a good man when I see one. Big props for bustin' a nut to help out a friend!!! You da' Man!!!
:eleph: :banana3: :YIPPIE:
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

QFT. I am very impressed, gomeler! :clap:

Unseen

06-06-2009, 05:06 PM

mate, is there any oil separator in this building?

[XC] gomeler

06-06-2009, 05:19 PM

mate, is there any oil separator in this building?

no :( There isn't any room and NoL originally charged the 2nd stage with Zerol 150. Supposedly Zerol 150(alkybenzene) will stay liquidy split down to -80C and below. The original goals of this build were -60C and 250w so I believe Adam felt no need to put an oil separator. I'm aiming for -80C and 250w which should be do-able I think. If I end up with an evap clogged full of oil I'll find a way to implement some sort of oil separator with the limited space I have. There is some space between the two compressors and the corner, would just require some insane piping.

I'd kill for another ~4 square inches of usable space, what is left is used up by the 1st stage condenser fan. Not very happy with the setup but it uses the space better than it originally did, without a desuperheater.

HitandRun

06-06-2009, 07:17 PM

Very nice going Chris. I'm glad you guys finally fund this leak. Looks like this monster will be used soon again. :up:

ultralo1

06-06-2009, 08:42 PM

gomeler;3833555']. Supposedly Zerol 150(alkybenzene) will stay liquidy split down to -80C and below.

No it wont.

[XC] gomeler

06-06-2009, 08:54 PM

No it wont.

K, guess I'm in for an adventure. Might want to start planning where I can ram a piece of 1" pipe in here :(

sdumper

06-07-2009, 06:44 AM

gomeler;3833788']K, guess I'm in for an adventure. Might want to start planning where I can ram a piece of 1" pipe in here :(

Chris why did you think NoL was so certain that Zerol 150(alkybenzene) would negate the need for an oil separator? Was it because his loaded target was just -60c what was his target idle or no load I wonder?

Regardless you have very little room to work but maybe you can fit it over by the HX because it looked like you had a little room in the corner...

[XC] gomeler

06-07-2009, 07:11 AM

Chris why did you think NoL was so certain that Zerol 150(alkybenzene) would negate the need for an oil separator? Was it because his loaded target was just -60c what was his target idle or no load I wonder?

Regardless you have very little room to work but maybe you can fit it over by the HX because it looked like you had a little room in the corner...

Yeah, Adam's original evap goals were so warm that an oil sep wasn't necessary. That away from the HX is occupied by the fan. I'll put the fan into the unit later today and take a shot of it to see what I have for real estate. Vacuuming down the 2nd stage right now and then I'm going to quickly run both stages with a dummy charge of R290.

sdumper

06-08-2009, 09:22 AM

Chris any update?

[XC] gomeler

06-08-2009, 09:41 AM

Chris any update?

Spent yesterday reviewing Koolance's CPU-LN2 pot. I had been pushing that review off for a while, had to get it out of the way so I can review the EVGA Classified. Back to work on the cascade today though. Busy life juggling school/work/play :shrug:

Ozzfest05

06-08-2009, 12:28 PM

After reviewing many refrigeration forums I have found that as you said Gom the Zerol 150 should be fine at -80 without an Oil Sep, many cascade condensing units apparently use this oil because of its ability to not turn waxy after -60 C, However anything below -80 is pushing it but I highly doubt you will find a need for an oil sep on this build if the goal is -60.

twilyth

06-08-2009, 01:00 PM

OT: [Andy Rooney impersonation]

You know, I really hate threads like this. I was perfectly happy to ignore all the phase threads and troll . . . ummm, I mean browse the other areas. Then something like this comes along that grabs you from the human interest point of view, and suddenly I have all these questions about phase. Like . . . WTF are you all talking about? :rofl: This is a dangerous thing because once you open the door, it's hard to close. :yepp:

[XC] gomeler

06-08-2009, 03:18 PM

1st stage is up and running, uninsulated. Just putting a dummy charge into it right now, something that'll hold the HX and suction line around -20C uninsulated and then I'll dump a little R22 into the 2nd stage and fire it up.

[XC] gomeler

06-08-2009, 07:23 PM

It fits. I had to bend the 2nd stage suction valve a good bit to get the lid on there but otherwise everything fit with the first try. Everything is insulated up, all that is left is securing the HPCO to the DSH, securing the DSH to the base, and figuring out the electronics situation. Think I'll have the powercords come out of that convenient hole and stick the compressor on/off buttons on top of the DSH by the HPCO.

Now begins the testing phase, going to fire up the 1st stage and make sure my insulation is thick enough, currently has ~1" of armacell around it.

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2415.JPG

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2417.JPG

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2418.JPG

http://gomeler.com/pic/Phase%20Builds/Loonym/IMG_2419.JPG

Buckeye

06-08-2009, 07:35 PM

Good Grief Chris Nice Work !!

It's like a mini beast with that huge suction line coming out of it :rofl:

[XC] gomeler

06-08-2009, 07:43 PM

Good Grief Chris Nice Work !!

It's like a mini beast with that huge suction line coming out of it :rofl:

I think I might drop it down to 1.25" of insulation, right now it has 1.75" of insulation which i think is overkill. That is what is on my dual 7/8 hp cascade but I don't think I have to insulate against -100C :D

With the 1st stage running and the unit on a sheet of 1" armaflex it is insanely quiet. Think it'll come with cut sheet of armaflex :up:

loonym

06-08-2009, 08:53 PM

It looks cold :D

[XC] gomeler

06-09-2009, 11:40 AM

Tuning with R1150 right now.. going well. Hopefully mounting this to a Phenom II X4 955 tonight to dump a little heat into the system and prep it for Core i7 tuning later this week.

Going to need to put a 120mm fan to cool the 2nd stage compressor. It doesn't receive enough refrigerant or airflow and after 30 minutes it was at 95 Celsius at the top, 87 Celsius at the bottom. Now time to figure out how to fit that fan in here..

[XC] gomeler

06-09-2009, 03:34 PM

Harder than expected with such tiny compressors. To hold an appreciable load it's going to be low, evap around -65C to -70C :( I tried a straight R1150 charge and got the evap down to -90C but it'd crash with more than 1 core on the Phenom II @ 4500MHz. Slowly dumping R1150 and adding R290 into the 2nd stage, trying to find an appropriate blend.

[XC] gomeler

06-09-2009, 07:36 PM

Added another 1/2" of insulation on the HX and 1/4" of insulation on the 1st stage suction line. I think I'm losing a lot of HX capacity due to the amount of air flowing over the HX due to the massive condenser fan. The suction line stays around -20C and the HX near the 2nd stage inlet hovers around -15C while loaded, idles at -31C. Right now I've got a full R290 charge on the 2nd stage with no R1150 and it holes through 06 at 4500MHz with a evap temp of -56C and an IHS temp of -42C. I need to drop another 20 Celsius before I'm happy. Going to start feeding it small quantities of R1150 and monitor the HX temps. Would really like a larger 1st stage compressor to pull the HX down to -40C and go from there :-S

loonym

06-09-2009, 10:04 PM

Isn't this -60 or so range you're looking at pretty good for the i7? I've seen comments about poor scaling past that, as well as some folks having issues with booting colder temps?

wdrzal

06-09-2009, 10:14 PM

From the picture you posted I don't see a fan on the Desuperheater ? If not it will lower 2nd stage pressures and more importantly is your 2nd stage head temperatures.

[XC] gomeler

06-10-2009, 06:29 AM

From the picture you posted I don't see a fan on the Desuperheater ? If not it will lower 2nd stage pressures and more importantly is your 2nd stage head temperatures.

There's a 38mm thick panaflo on the DSH, just wasn't in the picture. Going to stuff a 38mm 120vac fan in there before shipping that'll come on with the 2nd stage. Refrigerant going into the HX isn't much higher than ambient :up:

Isn't this -60 or so range you're looking at pretty good for the i7? I've seen comments about poor scaling past that, as well as some folks having issues with booting colder temps?

Yeah, -60C isn't bad, it'll get you up to ~5GHz. There are some i7 with horrible cold boot temps, you've got a hot gas bypass to dump hot gas into the evap to warm it up for boot though :up: Just pray your i7 doesn't have a coldbug at -50C :D

[XC] gomeler

06-10-2009, 03:26 PM

k, done tuning on PHII. Idles at -78 Celsius with no load on the evap due to the R1150 in the charge. With PHII @ 4500/1.55v it was looping 3D06 CPU test with the evap at -61C. HX temps near the 2nd stage inlet sit at -21C and the 1st stage compressor runs around 65C. 2nd stage compressor still runs warmer than I'd like around 80C shell temps with the DSH fan running. 1st stage is running 180psi dicharge and 7psi suction when fully loaded. 2nd stage is running 145psi discharge and 3psi suction with the evap loaded. Loading it up with Core i7 around 1.55v will be interesting, just waiting on my incredibly delayed Classified to arrive. Hopefully I won't have to tweak the charge much more, might have to remove a little R1150 and add some R290 on the 2nd stage.

edit: I tested the hot-gas bypass and it sort of works. Adam used too narrow of a bore capillary tubing so with the bypass enabled the evap would only drop down to -45C or so.

dinos22

06-10-2009, 04:07 PM

if you can hold a big load at -70C you can max out most i7s :up: dont sweat it

loonym

06-10-2009, 04:31 PM

if you can hold a big load at -70C you can max out most i7s :up: dont sweat itYeah dinos, that's kind of what I thought too. This thing should be a lot of fun for playing with the i7s. :up:

sdumper

06-11-2009, 05:58 AM

Chris, I will be out of town this weekend so wont be using my load tester. Its adjustable up to 400 watts.

I can drop it off tomorrow on the way back from work just say the word.

[XC] gomeler

06-11-2009, 06:23 AM

Chris, I will be out of town this weekend so wont be using my load tester. Its adjustable up to 400 watts.

I can drop it off tomorrow on the way back from work just say the word.

Could you drop it off, will use it to maintain a continuous load once I can figure out what is necessary to hold the i7 975 stable :up:

sdumper

06-11-2009, 12:15 PM

Absolutely and im bringing the other item we discussed...

wdrzal

06-11-2009, 03:04 PM

[XC] gomeler

06-12-2009, 12:18 PM

Gomeler check your running amps on the second stage compressor.

adding: Check to be sure your using the correct size run capacitor also.

A bunch of little issues can add up to one big PITA.

But looks like noob already schooled you in that.:ROTF:

I was thinking about this. I know NoL uses 25 uF caps on these Rechi's but the spec sheet states 15uF and I'm pretty certain I was using 20uF caps the last time I doodled with them. Just so happens I have a 15uF and 20uF cap, so I'm going to measure the running amps with NoL's 25uF cap and then drop in the 20uF, and again with the 15uF. Not sure if I'll have a chance to do this testing tonight, dinner with the girlfriend in 2 hours.

Ozzfest05

06-12-2009, 02:44 PM

gomeler;3845640']I was thinking about this. I know NoL uses 25 uF caps on these Rechi's but the spec sheet states 15uF and I'm pretty certain I was using 20uF caps the last time I doodled with them. Just so happens I have a 15uF and 20uF cap, so I'm going to measure the running amps with NoL's 25uF cap and then drop in the 20uF, and again with the 15uF. Not sure if I'll have a chance to do this testing tonight, dinner with the girlfriend in 2 hours.
Goms Girl Friend

Expat GriZ

06-12-2009, 04:00 PM

Goms Girl Friend

Foreigners song "Cold as Ice" comes to mind.....she sure is cute though!!!!!:rofl::ROTF::rofl:

loonym

06-13-2009, 07:25 AM

Just bring her back there for KFC, beers, and phase tuning. What's the problem? :shrug:

runmc

06-13-2009, 09:22 AM

Just bring her back there for KFC, beers, and phase tuning. What's the problem? :shrug:

What more could a gal asked for? :confused:

[XC] gomeler

06-13-2009, 09:38 AM

Morning chores/cleaning/email out of the way, time to get to work. Just fired up the 1st stage. First I'm going to test the 2nd stage with 25/20/15uF capacitors and record the power draw with each option. I've also got SDumper's load tester hooked up to the evap, so once I figure out if I can really use a 15uF cap then I'll re-test the evap.

SDumpers(DetroitAC designed) load tester makes me want to rebuild mine and case it up. Mine is all dangerous with the bare variac although my variac is huge :shakes:

What more could a gal asked for? :confused:

Sadly my girlfriend is vegan and doesn't like beer, so when I suggested that she just rolled her eyes :(

edit:

Initial numbers of 2nd stage @ idle
420-425w powerdraw with the 25uF cap
350-355w powerdraw with the 20uF cap
295-300w powerdraw with the 15uF cap

Thanks for the prod in the right direction Walt. Dropping compressor power consumption by ~33% should help the 1st stage cope a little better. For the record the 1st stage pulls 375w with the 2nd stage running. Now I'm slowly ramping up the evap load tester, going to jump in 25w increments and record the temps.

wdrzal

06-13-2009, 11:16 AM

gomeler;3847289']

Sadly my girlfriend is vegan and doesn't like beer, so when I suggested that she just rolled her eyes.

Thanks for the prod in the right direction Walt.

Thanks,removing 125 watts x 3.412 you just removed 426.5 Btu's the condensor doesn't need to reject :up:...........want some more good advice? ;)

Find a new Girlfriend.:sofa:

[XC] gomeler

06-13-2009, 11:28 AM

once you get evap tuned "a stiffy" like an old man puts his in the freezer b4 gal comes over.......J/K :rofl:

looks 15uF works best. how it sound on start-up? laboured or snappy ?

question using cap as run (http://usajohnsons.com/cool_energy_stuff/experiments/eRunCap.jpg) or start cap (http://usajohnsons.com/cool_energy_stuff/experiments/eStartcap.jpg)?

It's a 15uF run capacitor. Startup is "normal", spins up quickly and powerdraw looks normal.

Thanks,removing 125 watts x 3.412 you just removed 426.5 Btu's the condensor doesn't need to reject :up:...........want some more good advice? ;)

Find a new Girlfriend.:sofa:

lol :eek:

Here is the initial testing. The 1st stage crashed on me at 225w so I need to play with the 1st stage charge a little more. I've also got the suction line on the 2nd stage running with just 1/2" of insulation, it is thoroughly wet so I have more performance to gain with better insulation. My original 3/4" thick insulation job was a few inches too short in length, need to pick up another section of insulation on Monday. I need to get the 1st stage HX to hold -15C to -20C with the 2nd stage fully loaded and then work on the 2nd stage a little more to try and balance out the temps a little more. Less R1150 and more R290 is in order I believe.

-80.4 idle
-74.4C 25w
-68.3c 50w
-64.4c 75w
-60.1c 100w
-57.0c 125w
-54.6C 150w
-52.4C 175w
-50.5c 200w
-48.9c 225w

wdrzal

06-13-2009, 01:39 PM

What gas in in the first stage? & whats the low side pressure? do you know the superheat? Anyone have a P/T chart for R1150 handy?

[XC] gomeler

06-13-2009, 02:35 PM

With the 2nd stage idling the 1st stage(R290) has 4psi suction and 165psi discharge with -21C near the top of the HX between the 2nd stage inlet and the 1st stage outlet and the suction line at -24 Celsius. With the 2nd stage loaded to 200w the 1st stage climbs to 7psi suction 175psi discharge and the HX drops to a stable -7 Celsius while the suction line hovers around -17 Celsius.

Should I measure the HX from the lowest point, directly in the middle, or the top? I think I chose a bad spot to measure as I'm more or less getting a measurement of where the warmer suction gases are mixing with the hot inlet gases. On reflection I should probably have measured nearer the 2nd stage outlet.

While posting this I dumped a little more r290 into the 1st stage, 10psi suction and 200psi discharge, -11C HX temps. Evap temps dropped 4 degrees at 200w to -54.7 Celsius, testing 225w right now.