Bad Numbers [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

majormav

07-30-2002, 05:52 PM

a few possibilities need a few more details

FSB for the blue screens
v core at the mo
is unlock a good one
power rails ok

temps look ok though although a 226 tec i would have expected better ,,,,, what was the bios flash trying to cure ...

might shed some light with a few more details to help fix your problem

Hardass

07-30-2002, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by majormav
a few possibilities need a few more details

FSB for the blue screens
v core at the mo
is unlock a good one
power rails ok

temps look ok though although a 226 tec i would have expected better ,,,,, what was the bios flash trying to cure ...

might shed some light with a few more details to help fix your problem
FSB was anywhere from 140,s to 170,s depending on multiplier. vcore have tried from default up to 2.00. Unlocked by XTW. Yep good one. Power rails looked fair could be better but should be enough to get a 2100+ to 1800MHz Have tried multiplier from 10 to 12 and get blue screens as soon as I hit mid 1700,s

TheDude

07-30-2002, 06:55 PM

How about your ram? Samsung 2700? New stick or have you gotten higher fsb with it? DL or CL? Tight settings? have you tried backing off the timings some? Ram voltages? If you drop to really low multiplier will the ram do high fsb?
Just some thoughts...when I had problems with that board, it turned out to be the ram or ram settings. I switched DL 2700 Samsung for Mushkin 3000 and had better results. Tried OCZ first and it sucked. I ended up getting about 2150 with my Tbred (stable) FSB was around 185, if I remember correctly...it would boot to windows as high as 205...but was unstable.

sysfailur

07-30-2002, 09:05 PM

You might wanna give 2719 Bios a try. I hear it is very good. Perhaps your bios install is whacked somehow.

Hardass

07-31-2002, 02:13 AM

I will try new bios. And I am running Samsung 2700 CTL ram have tried all diff settings on ram.

Chong345

07-31-2002, 02:20 AM

what bios are you using?

Hardass

07-31-2002, 02:28 AM

2619

Chong345

07-31-2002, 02:42 AM

Ah ok. I was wondering cause with bios' before the 24's you can't use fsb's between like 140-166 or so. Weird.

07-31-2002, 03:47 AM

Weird, how about yer voltages? How they looking and what PS are ya powering ur PC w/? Not sharing PS for TEC i imagine.....

mdzcpa

07-31-2002, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Hardass

FSB was anywhere from 140,s to 170,s depending on multiplier. vcore have tried from default up to 2.00. Unlocked by XTW. Yep good one. Power rails looked fair could be better but should be enough to get a 2100+ to 1800MHz Have tried multiplier from 10 to 12 and get blue screens as soon as I hit mid 1700,s

Do you get the BSODs only at higher FSB speeds? This is most common and is the result of RAM limits. Have you increased the Vmem?

With a pelt I would leave the CPU core at 2.0v for best possible performance.

Make sure your PSU is up to the task.

9 times out of 10, BSODs are RAM related.

Edit-
Take a slow approach. Set a low multiplier and work your FSB up slowly until you get the BSOD. Do this with somewhat relaxed memory timings. Once you hit the BSOD, up the multiplier and lower the FSB, but try it at the same CPU speed you had the BSODs at. If it doesn't BSOD you know it was the RAM not liking the FSB speed. Continue increasing the mutliplier with lower FSB speeds until you find your max CPU overclock.

Hardass

07-31-2002, 04:09 AM

TTGI 420W PS for cpu and seconary for pelt. Have a 520W coming will install this weekend. I got BSOD,s at high and mid FSB but at or around same MHz. Got sys to 1780,s but when start folding bluescreen.

mdzcpa

07-31-2002, 04:13 AM

What RAM timings are you using? What's your Vmem set to?

Hardass

07-31-2002, 04:44 AM

Set at fastest, Vmem is 2.90

mdzcpa

07-31-2002, 04:51 AM

Try relaxing the memory timings and see how far it'll go that way. If you can run it a good deal higher with relaxed settings, we can confirm your limits are RAM related.

I'm off to work now...catcha when I get back.

Hardass

07-31-2002, 05:00 AM

Thanks m8:D

majormav

07-31-2002, 09:04 AM

by the answers above my guess would be the ram .... tight settings are harder to acheive success with overclock than relaxed ones especially the command rate one ive had samsung 2700 and corsair 3200 in the epox and the 1T command was ok sometimes but not others .... also as said above relax em and let us know

Hardass

07-31-2002, 03:38 PM

Well with relaxed timing on ram, running it set to normal, Vmem is 2.50. I can get over 1800MHz. Running cpu at 1810M, 181x10, Volt 180, When i get to desktop I can run programs no problem. As soon as I start F@H sys reboots. Tried raising voltage all the way to 2.00 when I get there I get a Black screen saying this at the top. TRA========EXCEPTION======== and then a bunch of xxxxx000000.

OPPAINTER

07-31-2002, 03:45 PM

Looks to me like the block doesn't have good contact, I'd reseat the block and try it again making sure you have enough presure with the block to the core.

OPP

Hardass

07-31-2002, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Looks to me like the block doesn't have good contact, I'd reseat the block and try it again making sure you have enough presure with the block to the core.

OPP
Why do you say this?

mdzcpa

07-31-2002, 04:24 PM

I beleive OPP is thinking that heat is the culprit and the CPU is crappin' out under stress. So you might try his advice.

But, I also noticed in your last post when you got the chip to 181 x 10 that you had the Vmem at 2.5v...this is very low for overclocking the RAM. Even though you are trying relaxed memory timings, I suggest you keep the Vmem higher....at least around 2.8v when overclocked beyond it's rated 166mhz spec.

Hardass

07-31-2002, 04:46 PM

The temp thing doesn,t make sense to me, I have a 2000, that runs at 1810 on air at 41c at full load. How can a 2100+ at 1810 be crapping out at 19c. And I tried raising Vmem and it made no diff. This chip runs at 1762MHz at full load but will not go higher and run F@H. I think I will be pulling it this weekend and put my 2000 in this sys I should be able to get 1900MHz or better with that chip.

DisposableHero

07-31-2002, 08:42 PM

either your waterblock isnt making good contact with cpu or your chip just sucks.. i hope for you that its just the block :)

Torinalth

08-01-2002, 03:56 AM

I'd agree that it sounds like you have a lame chip, or the TEC is not connectin with the chip. are you using a coldplate to use as much of the TEC as possible? with that much power running to it you should have lower than 26c. I'd reseat everything and get a nice copper cold plate if you dont have one. just my thoughts.

Torinalth

Hardass

08-01-2002, 04:30 AM

I don,t know anything about cold plates, unit is running at 1762MHz, With F@H running MBM is reading 19C and if this reading is coming from sensor under cpu it is covered with Liquid Elect Tape which will make temp higher then it really is. But again I do not understand why we are talking about temps when my other chips are running at higher temps and putting out more MHz.:(

mdzcpa

08-01-2002, 06:41 AM

If your folding with temps at 19c...then i do not see heat as a big problem either.

Yeah, you might be able to get things a bit colder with that 226w TEC by getting the hot side cooled a bit better, but i would not believe it would be CPU temps holding you back right now. Heck, your only at a 66mhz overclock at 1800mhz.

Since you know the system memory will run okay up to 180mhz, try raising the multiplier back to 13 and lowering the FSB to 133. Then move the FSB up in increments of 1. See if you still hit trouble around 1800mhz. If this happens, you know it's the CPU. If not, you know it is the memory not wanting to go above 180.

BTW, the coldplate is the portion of the waterblock/TEC which comes in contact with the CPU. The TEC is sandwiched between the coldplate and the waterblock.

sjohnson

08-01-2002, 07:06 AM

Just a little more - cold plates act as a "cold reservoir" - kind of like heat spreaders on memory sticks, but in reverse...

Hardass

08-01-2002, 07:17 AM

With the ram timings relaxed I didn,t have a problem getting over 180FSB. But when I start F@H it reboots.

Hardass

08-01-2002, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by sjohnson
Just a little more - cold plates act as a "cold reservoir" - kind of like heat spreaders on memory sticks, but in reverse...
How do cold plates attach to block with pelt.

sysfailur

08-01-2002, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Hardass

How do cold plates attach to block with pelt.

Cold plates usually attach by screws are bolts of some sort. For a pelt to work properly there needs to be lots of pressure on the pelt from the top and bottom. The cold plate creates pressure on the bottom. The waterblock creates pressure on the top. The screws from the cold plate to the waterblock create the actual pressure.

Yes the cold plate is just that, cold, but the major role of it is to create pressure. Then that pressure makes the pelt work better and you'll get lower temps.

DisposableHero

08-01-2002, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Hardass
With the ram timings relaxed I didn,t have a problem getting over 180FSB. But when I start F@H it reboots.

woah.. my crucial 2100 gets close to that on high timings

mdzcpa

08-01-2002, 08:13 AM

Did you try upping the multiplier and lowering the FSB to get the chip to go higher than 1800mhz with stability? Without doing this you cannot confirm whether its the RAM or CPU holding you back (and I still suspect the RAM at this point).

BTW, if you are using the MCW462-UT block, it is preassembled from from Swiftech with the block, pelt, and coldplate put together.

Hardass

08-01-2002, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by mdzcpa
Did you try upping the multiplier and lowering the FSB to get the chip to go higher than 1800mhz with stability? Without doing this you cannot confirm whether its the RAM or CPU holding you back (and I still suspect the RAM at this point).

BTW, if you are using the MCW462-UT block, it is preassembled from from Swiftech with the block, pelt, and coldplate put together.
Thats the block I,m using. Will try changes to multiplier tonight. As far as temps. will be changing out Pelt power supply to see if thats the problem with average temps, and then a new block.

Marci

08-01-2002, 10:55 AM

Slow down guys, have a think...
This is the Epox 8K3A+ so it WILL be reading the ondie sensor as (I think) it auto-detects the presence of one and uses it if it's there, with no way of choosing to use the other.... if that's reading 19 degrees then this can't really be a heat think... I could be wrong, but it just doesn't quite sound right.

Don't have any suggestions as to a solution or cause, but I'd say it's not heat related...

mdzcpa

08-01-2002, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Marci

Don't have any suggestions as to a solution or cause, but I'd say it's not heat related...

I agree...

Hardass

08-01-2002, 11:43 AM

I agree, tonight I will raise multiplier and lower fsb. Try to get as high stable as possible. Thank you all for the help and ideas. Will update tonight.

Hardass

08-01-2002, 02:37 PM

At 145x12.5, 1812MHz, Get reboots, and blue screen. Tried raising volts slowly to 1.95 get black screen have to clear cmos.

mdzcpa

08-01-2002, 05:04 PM

I hate to say this, but you may have a real bum chip on your hands. It's hard to beleive cooling is holding you back when you are getting sub 20c temps with only a 66mhz overclock.

Just for :banana::banana::banana::banana:s and giggles, can you throw a plain ole HSF unit on that thing and see where air cooling get's you? This might determine if there is indeed some kind of trouble with the block pressure. With air you should get at least a 150mhz out of a typical XP 2100 which would take you to almost 1900mhz.

Hardass

08-01-2002, 05:13 PM

Getting the MHz isn,t the problem. Running stable is. I can go past 1800MHz with no problem as soon as I start F@H bam. I will have it in a air rig this weekend. OPP told me this may not be a good oc chip.

mdzcpa

08-01-2002, 05:24 PM

When I'm refering to a 150mhz overclock, I'm refering to a stable overclock under load. In my book, any mhz gain without stability doesn't count.

Hmmm...you may indeed have a very poor overclocking chip on your hands.:(

DisposableHero

08-01-2002, 05:32 PM

i think u just have a bad chip dude... a really bad one :(

edit: btw.. what where u temps on bottem of cold plate before it was mounted on cpu? im just trying to compare to my maze3-1 i got today

Hardass

08-01-2002, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by DisposableHero
i think u just have a bad chip dude... a really bad one :(

edit: btw.. what where u temps on bottem of cold plate before it was mounted on cpu? im just trying to compare to my maze3-1 i got today
What do you mean? How would I know the temp of the plate?

DisposableHero

08-01-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Hardass

What do you mean? How would I know the temp of the plate?

useing a temp probe like comp u nurse

Hardass

08-01-2002, 05:51 PM

I don,t have that kind of equip.

Hardass

08-03-2002, 02:55 PM

UPDATE:= Installed 2000+ in system. Running at 15c

mdzcpa

08-03-2002, 03:01 PM

So far so good:)

Are you going to keep trying to push it higher?

Hardass

08-03-2002, 03:02 PM

Does a Bear crap in the woods.:D

mdzcpa

08-03-2002, 03:05 PM

Good to see you ramping up then...go for it:banana:

Hardass

08-03-2002, 04:07 PM

Thanks to everyone that helped on this.:toast:

DaGooch

08-03-2002, 04:18 PM

Good going there HardAss!. Welcome to the 2G club! :D

DisposableHero

08-03-2002, 04:37 PM

so was it just a really crappy chip?

edit: and what vcore are u using? and are those temps load temps?

mdzcpa

08-03-2002, 04:50 PM

Congrats :toast:

Hardass

08-03-2002, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by DisposableHero
so was it just a really crappy chip?

edit: and what vcore are u using? and are those temps load temps?
2.10 and yes thats running F@H, temps at 2000 were 24c