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Enzo-Tech(Dav)
09-23-2008, 04:47 PM
http://www.enzotechnology.com/beta/images/luna.gif

http://www.enzotechnology.com/beta/images/luna_photo2.jpg

http://www.enzotechnology.com/beta/images/luna_photo1.jpg

ETA:10/18/08

skinnee
09-23-2008, 04:52 PM
Any nozzles on the inlet?

Can we get a better view of the top part (inlet/outlet) of the block?

Another great looking Enzotech block for sure! :up:

BlueAqua
09-23-2008, 05:02 PM
That looks really nice in all respects. It even has a pulsating bling to it. ;)

YMAA
09-23-2008, 05:18 PM
That. Looks. AWESOME.

Petra
09-23-2008, 05:19 PM
Is it just me, or does it seem like they haven't learned a whole lot from their experience with the Sapphire? Oh well, I guess we'll know soon enough...

*ninja edit* nice, two posts and two advertisements :rolleyes:

systemviper
09-23-2008, 05:20 PM
i love the enzo tech stuff, the sapphire series was top notch and this is very different from a insides standpoint :up:

systemviper
09-23-2008, 05:21 PM
Is it just me, or does it seem like they haven't learned a whole lot from their experience with the Sapphire? Oh well, I guess we'll know soon enough...

*ninja edit* nice, two posts and two advertisements :rolleyes:

Id' love to hear what they needed to lern and how this is effected, thanks petra.

evil-98
09-23-2008, 05:46 PM
looks like a good design but the block looks ugly IMO




*ninja edit* nice, two posts and two advertisements :rolleyes:

*ninja qft*

Gir92
09-23-2008, 05:47 PM
Did someone slip some acid into my water, or is the waterblock lighting up?
:confused:

*goes into seizure*

DeathWalking
09-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Someone send one to RRR. Can you get more bling than a CPU cooler with a flashy LED ring?

xtclocker
09-23-2008, 05:51 PM
leds? cool!

Enzo-Tech(Dav)
09-23-2008, 05:51 PM
Blue Leds :)

majestik
09-23-2008, 06:01 PM
They could have made the block look super cool (Cathar G4 cool!) but instead it looks like poop.

Oh well, all-copper blocks are always welcome :up:

gillbot
09-23-2008, 06:05 PM
Looks nice, i'll wait till I see the price.

DeathWalking
09-23-2008, 06:20 PM
No Thanks, my thoughts and yours on bling differ...:up:I'm curious now, what's 'bling' by your definition?

nikhsub1
09-23-2008, 06:41 PM
Id' love to hear what they needed to lern and how this is effected, thanks petra.
Perhaps he means the top material, which is unknown at this point. Maybe he is referring to the thickness of the base, which again is unknown. For sure what he partly means is the lack of a step or a bow. Step preferred please.

Petra
09-23-2008, 06:54 PM
Id' love to hear what they needed to lern and how this is effected, thanks petra.

Here's one example: it's obviously not stepped and, judging by the depth of the 'well' in which the pin matrix resides, in combination with a few assumptions derived from their photos (supposing that they're accurate of course), I'd wager that the base isn't convex either. This should have been the first...no...second...wait...third thing learned from the Sapphire.

*edit* Damn answering e-mails and posting at the same time... Scott beat me to the step. They learned at least something from the base thickness debacle, so I wasn't counting that... and they also seem to have learned from the cracking top issue. Albeit, their solution of making everything out of copper and then sticking a shiny plastic shell on it is an interesting one

NaeKuh
09-23-2008, 07:06 PM
the LED cracks me up.

The middle nozzle base, im kinda confused on it. It looks more like a tank then an actual nozzle. Enzo are you guys gonna have plates for us to toss in the middle as possible customization?

But the block looks HOT!

Martinm210
09-23-2008, 07:54 PM
That's a big chuck of copper, very nice!

Cptn Vortex
09-23-2008, 08:31 PM
Mmmmmmmmmm Pretty!!!! SHINY

headala
09-23-2008, 10:00 PM
I seems like it will perform okay; maybe someone could get it and step it? Other than the lack of the step/bow, seems like a quality block. Don't care for the looks, but aren't looks supposed to be the last priority around here? Enzotech's last block hung with the others but cost a LOT less. If they do it again, I'd buy one.

vkbms
09-24-2008, 01:08 AM
Nice one..... very blingy.... :D

Waterlogged
09-24-2008, 01:19 AM
It looks like a UFO blinking away like that. :ROTF:

I'll wait for test numbers before criticizing performance. ;)

Repliquant67
09-24-2008, 01:44 AM
Nice block. Swiftech could be affraid

WaterFlex
09-24-2008, 02:20 AM
:up:Wowow! ALIEN WATERBLOCK

WaterFlex
09-24-2008, 02:54 AM
Where did you find that info ?

Hondacity
09-24-2008, 03:04 AM
Mr Enzo

does this block perform better than the sapphire block?

MomijiTMO
09-24-2008, 03:13 AM
Not too sure about this one. As much as I love Enzotech it looks like it's going backwards :O

G-UNIT91
09-24-2008, 03:18 AM
TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST! TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!TEST!:D:D:D:D:up:

septim
09-24-2008, 04:58 AM
send one to andy or martin, if they're willing and have the time to test.

Pub_Randy**
09-24-2008, 05:00 AM
Does the LED actually pulsate, if so not sure on that.
I do however like the hieroglyphics around the top/cover, very cool.

Look forward to test results, out of curiousity ofcourse as i have a GTZ on the way from petras :D

hata28
09-24-2008, 06:40 AM
WOW...look like a winner....I love Enzotech. I'll get one just for the heck of it!

situman
09-24-2008, 09:52 AM
Pins looks ultrafine like the new Swifties.

Woyta
09-24-2008, 11:20 AM
Idea looks similar to EK Supreme.
Prepared place for noozles. :)
This block could have good performance but it will have big pressure drop.
Could be sell in decent design? Without these useleless LED cover with star ornaments. Its only make price higher and propably, it will never be used. (Mostly)

jollyjoker
09-24-2008, 11:55 AM
sure does look different

Thomas FJ
09-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Here's one example: it's obviously not stepped and, judging by the depth of the 'well' in which the pin matrix resides, in combination with a few assumptions derived from their photos (supposing that they're accurate of course), I'd wager that the base isn't convex either. This should have been the first...no...second...wait...third thing learned from the Sapphire.

*edit* Damn answering e-mails and posting at the same time... Scott beat me to the step. They learned at least something from the base thickness debacle, so I wasn't counting that... and they also seem to have learned from the cracking top issue. Albeit, their solution of making everything out of copper and then sticking a shiny plastic shell on it is an interesting one

I totally agree.
It's surely a great block, but with some small tweaks, which they should have learnt from the SCW, their competitors or from the communities, it could have been even better.

But maybe the lesson about cracking tops was more than enough for them, for all this "full copper" doesn't make any sense to me at all. It only makes the block more expensive and heavier - not better. Maybe more exclusive, but especially exclusive looks isn't Enzo weak point IMO :)
Perhaps Enzo has a copper mine in the back yard? :D

The design is a bit too spacey for me. What's up with the "signs" on the mounting plate? A greeting to aliens? :D
They should rename it to ET-ASS instead, EnzoTech Asian Space Ship :D

http://www.nokytech.net/images//news/enzotech/enzotech_luna_waterbloc_cpu.jpg
"3, 2, 1 and lift off!!"
/Thomas

AndrewZorn
09-24-2008, 02:27 PM
The signs remind me of [the] Stargate.

Sly Fox
09-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Looks like an awesome block. The LED is a little bit "goofy" if you ask me, but at the same time it wouldn't really bother me.

Always nice to see more quality products enter the market, and Enzotech always seems to provide the pretty copper. Never used one myself, but people say the performance is right up there too.

LogAn'sRun
09-24-2008, 02:34 PM
meh, I'm happy just to see blocks released. More the merrier I say, then it'll only make everyone work harder as they fight fro market share, and then we'll start to see real innovation and not just duplication. . .

BlueAqua
09-24-2008, 02:40 PM
It's kind of weird to see a circular top and a square bottom. I'd much prefer it to look square on top. Also, those LED's from the side look dumb. I never thought I'd have to plug a cpu waterblock in. :rofl:

SNiiPE_DoGG
09-24-2008, 02:53 PM
It's kind of weird to see a circular top and a square bottom. I'd much prefer it to look square on top. Also, those LED's from the side look dumb. I never thought I'd have to plug a cpu waterblock in. :rofl:

eh... a nice sleeved wire going to the CPU fan connector cant be that bad, although a circular cpu block is not appealing to me

Omastar
09-24-2008, 02:54 PM
I'm different than most here, as I'm not a big fan of pin matrix baseplates. Long, very narrow channels for me please.....:up:


So, is that the reason you like the EK Supreme, or is the EK Supreme the reason you love long, narrow channels? ;)

MomijiTMO
09-24-2008, 04:03 PM
So, is that the reason you like the EK Supreme, or is the EK Supreme the reason you love long, narrow channels? ;)

Probably both. :p:

BreeSpree
09-24-2008, 04:07 PM
That looks so fly, that I am going to buy!!!

Maybe you could make an entire Enzotech set with alien writing all over all the blocks.

majestik
09-24-2008, 04:53 PM
But maybe the lesson about cracking tops was more than enough for them, for all this "full copper" doesn't make any sense to me at all. It only makes the block more expensive and heavier - not better.

Whoa now, you're wrong there. There are guys who run chillers, and for them there's nothing better than a solid copper block. Delrin is nice but supposingly cracks under low temperature. Lexan/Acrylic you can't pump ethanol/methanol through because it attacks the plastic. So solid copper is the way to go.

geoffsthaboss
09-24-2008, 04:55 PM
price?
lotsa copper and an led-prob $60+?

WaterFlex
09-24-2008, 09:26 PM
80 EURO I guess.

twwen2
09-24-2008, 10:02 PM
Hmm.

I love the internals, the copper looks great. But i hate the exterior, looks a bit wierd for my tastes. And i'd lose those leds if i got one. :p:

Bojamijams
09-25-2008, 05:11 AM
Enzo, I hope you guys took note of the OCZ block posted here which will retail for 39.99 ;)

pcaddict
09-25-2008, 05:29 AM
That block reminds me of X-Files.. :D

but nice looking block, some testing coming?

WaterFlex
09-25-2008, 06:18 AM
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9008/lunbn9.jpg

Thomas FJ
09-25-2008, 08:10 AM
Whoa now, you're wrong there. There are guys who run chillers, and for them there's nothing better than a solid copper block. Delrin is nice but supposingly cracks under low temperature. Lexan/Acrylic you can't pump ethanol/methanol through because it attacks the plastic. So solid copper is the way to go.

Yeah, for the very few who run with chillers it's great, for everyone else, which would be 99 out of 100 and is the market Enzo aims for, it's unnecessary...
/Thomas

dionysio
09-25-2008, 10:13 AM
its a copy of the ek supreme with maybe better construction quality (enzo strong point). and i would agree it does look weird.

evil-98
09-25-2008, 10:23 AM
its a copy of the ek supreme with maybe better construction quality (enzo strong point). and i would agree it does look weird.

it doesnt look anything like the supreme...

Big_Daddy
09-25-2008, 10:34 AM
They are both made with metal.. yeah, yeah.. Do I win a prize?

WaterFlex
09-25-2008, 10:41 AM
Do you see a little wire ;) I love this block !

Petra
09-25-2008, 11:15 AM
its a copy of the ek supreme with maybe better construction quality (enzo strong point). and i would agree it does look weird.

I can see how the internals of the top kinda resemble the Supreme... but I think that there are enough differences to prevent panic. ;)

Either way, it wouldn't really be shocking considering the similarities between the Sapphire and the FuZion.

dionysio
09-25-2008, 01:53 PM
unfortunatelly i don't have where i am now a digital camera available so i cannot photograph the similatities. its also in the way the water comes in very similar...

jcool
09-25-2008, 02:03 PM
I hope this one won't break and kill hardware :rolleyes:

MomijiTMO
09-25-2008, 02:09 PM
They fixed that pretty quickly making the top from copper. However that should have never had to occur if more thorough testing was done.

Someone get one already lol. Com'on Enzotech ship one out.

Kayin
09-25-2008, 07:44 PM
It would look strangely apropos for Mithril...

I'm interested. Just gotta see if this monster on the assembly bench is more interested in doing the job...

hotdun
09-25-2008, 11:49 PM
Wow that's alot of copper, damn! RRR, looks like the Supreme alright ;)....except maybe this one can run in loops other than "CPU only". :ROTF: ;)

WaterFlex
09-27-2008, 05:51 AM
Any news?

Enzo-Tech(Dav)
09-27-2008, 10:10 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2891914825_ebeb12b1ba.jpg?v=0

Base Thinkness: 1mm

evil-98
09-27-2008, 10:19 AM
thats a nice looking base :up:

mpower1001
09-27-2008, 10:24 AM
I like it...it's definitely different

HESmelaugh
09-27-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm not too fond of the looks of this one either. IMO, the pic in post #72 is the sexiest one. :-)

On the other hand, it does look different than many other blocks and that's always welcome. Can't wait to see some test-results.

WaterFlex
09-27-2008, 11:50 AM
Tasty block...

Utnorris
09-27-2008, 01:11 PM
I think it looks cool, but I also like the ring as most do not. As far as performance, is everyone expecting that when a new block gets released that it will be some new retro design that will give us no restriction, 10 degrees lower temps and look great to boot? Seriously, the last few blocks that have been released have received so much criticism before and after their release because they didn't outperform the current blocks. News Flash - New blocks will probably perform like the current models.

Utnorris

fatman
09-27-2008, 10:45 PM
i do like it alot also the bling bling can stay or go dont bother me. it does remind me of the supreme but not to much. i think it will be able to hold its own comparing it to the gtz and v2. cant wait to find out more about it

canna1988
10-09-2008, 03:03 PM
hi DAV, scuse me for disturbing you.

Will be LUNA compatible with core I7?

thank you very much and scuse me for my English.

Bye

Utnorris
10-19-2008, 06:50 PM
Well. it looks like FrozenCPU.com has it in stock, http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8208/ex-blc-541/Enzotech_LUNA_Full_Copper_CPU_Liquid_Cooling_Block _-_Socket_775_AM2_AM2_940.html?id=uS8pgQGi

Demthios
10-19-2008, 08:00 PM
Yeah I just seen it on Sidwinders last night...still waiting for someone to get a hold of it and test it out to see how it compares to the GTZ and Fusion v2.

ThaLoveDocta
10-19-2008, 09:19 PM
Holy pin grid batman!!

theres gotta be like 775 pins in there!

FrostyPanda
10-19-2008, 09:53 PM
SidewinderComputers has had it for a week.....:shocked:

And they got rid of it for a good reason I'm sure :rofl:

It looks too spacy for me. It looks like something your average EVGA mods-rigs chap would use with tons of uv junk, poor cabling, and sporadically placed ccfl's and LED's :rofl:. It would fit perfectly in a Fast and Furious movie. Rice-o-rama bling-o :ROTF:

*edit* Damn Sidewinder got it back:down:

Kibbler
10-19-2008, 11:13 PM
And they got rid of it for a good reason I'm sure :rofl:

It looks too spacy for me. It looks like something your average EVGA mods-rigs chap would use with tons of uv junk, poor cabling, and sporadically placed ccfl's and LED's :rofl:. It would fit perfectly in a Fast and Furious movie. Rice-o-rama bling-o :ROTF:

*edit* Damn Sidewinder got it back:down:
Riiiiiight...if it's built well and performs well, who cares about the lights?

twwen2
10-19-2008, 11:54 PM
Riiiiiight...if it's built well and performs well, who cares about the lights?

True that, just don't plug it in!
I love the EnzoTech pics of their blocks, i think i have a copper fetish...:p:

MomijiTMO
10-20-2008, 12:15 AM
You can remove the pcb with lights or so I'm told. A dude at OCN has one.

WaterFlex
10-20-2008, 04:36 AM
Any results ?

hotdun
10-20-2008, 09:29 AM
I want one immediately.... Martin is this baby on your list?

MomijiTMO
10-20-2008, 02:52 PM
I don't think Enzo have ever gifted one to Martin. MAYBE they SHOULD. . . . -wink wink-

hotdun
10-21-2008, 09:19 PM
I don't think Enzo have ever gifted one to Martin. MAYBE they SHOULD. . . . -wink wink-

If Enzo knew what was good for them, they should. Maybe we should all pitch-in to get one over to Martin? Actually, he's got too much on his plate as it is.....we need a cloning machine.....:yepp:

Martinm210
10-21-2008, 09:32 PM
I'm going to sit here and pretend I don't have one already, but I do...got one a week or so ago, unfotunately it was after I started tearing down my system. I am completely rebuilding my system and starting all over. I might do a pressure drop test, but thermals will be a ways off..

MomijiTMO
10-21-2008, 09:38 PM
lol ok then :D

hotdun
10-21-2008, 10:52 PM
I'm going to sit here and pretend I don't have one already, but I do...got one a week or so ago, unfotunately it was after I started tearing down my system. I am completely rebuilding my system and starting all over. I might do a pressure drop test, but thermals will be a ways off..

You're the freakin man, shoulda known...:up:.....is there a block you don't have? :D Can't wait to see numbers on this one.

GOZ
10-22-2008, 02:30 AM
looking forward to the testing.

I need a new block this DD MC-TDX is OK but I want better.

Hondacity
10-22-2008, 02:36 AM
new setup martin? darn..will this be another two months? lol

Enzo-Tech(Dav)
10-22-2008, 08:59 PM
HOW TO DISABLE THE FLASHING FUNCTION.

Tools
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/2965286205_386bb30c61.jpg?v=0

Just simply solder a wire between the Mosfet R7 and Q1 and It will disable the flashing function.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2966133260_0d8de870c1.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2965286517_e3221f5bd8.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2966137770_aa3af3bd66.jpg?v=0

DEMO (movie)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26229526@N05/2966294636/

Enzo-Tech(Dav)
10-22-2008, 09:04 PM
LGA1366RM ETA: 11/22

LUNA
SCW-rev.a

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/2966308404_00cc2602de_m.jpg

SNiiPE_DoGG
10-22-2008, 09:10 PM
HOW TO DISABLE THE FLASHING FUNCTION.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2966137770_aa3af3bd66.jpg?v=0


ummmmm why not just solder clean over the piece there? A little more solder, a lot less clutter.

hotdun
10-23-2008, 12:23 PM
ummmmm why not just solder clean over the piece there? A little more solder, a lot less clutter.

Probably so you can re-enable the flashing if need be. Block looks tight though, thanks Dav :up:

WaterFlex
10-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Enzo-Tech(Dav)
Thx, Dav. But who will need to disable flash? I just can`t imagine such man :)

skinnee
10-23-2008, 03:36 PM
The block does look good, and its nice to know the flashing can easily be disabled. I am eager to see test results though, but take your time Martin, I know you have many irons in the fire.

tiro_uspsss
10-23-2008, 04:10 PM
I likes it :)

headala
10-23-2008, 11:20 PM
Couldn't you just not plug it in to disable the flash? LOL Yeah, yeah, I know, you still likey the blingy just not blinky blingy.

Patuga
10-30-2008, 09:50 AM
just got my first batch of them... :D

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_01.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_02.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_03.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_04.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_05.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_06.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/Coldzero_site/Enzotech_Luna_07.jpg

Have to say it looks even better than in those preview pics. Great finish quality as always, the "stains" you see there are not visible to me. The top cover is now metal, of the same colour as the "hold-down" plate. both come glued to the copper, just like the previous sapphire rev.a
Has you've guessed, the led can be disabled, if you don't want it on, don't conect it to a 3pin header. The rithm of the led is a quick blink twice a second +/-.
Also, 3/4" OD Compression fittings wont fit.
At first, that's what comes to mind.

Kayin
10-30-2008, 09:52 AM
Be interesting to see numbers on these...

Kayin
10-30-2008, 09:55 AM
Hey, really don't blame you. Not a fan of the amazing epileptic fit machine look.

WaterFlex
10-30-2008, 11:20 AM
Amazing stuff! Want to see some results!

WaterFlex
11-11-2008, 10:56 AM
Still no users?

jc99
11-11-2008, 11:12 AM
ummmmm why not just solder clean over the piece there? A little more solder, a lot less clutter.

Could make it even easier and not plug the thing in you know. No mods. No more or less clutter. Easily reversible. :rofl:

SNiiPE_DoGG
11-11-2008, 11:17 AM
Could make it even easier and not plug the thing in you know. No mods. No more or less clutter. Easily reversible. :rofl:

but then it wouldn't light up.....

jc99
11-11-2008, 12:41 PM
but then it wouldn't light up.....

Oh haha. Misread it then. (I thought it didn't make any sense :rofl:)

Too many people complaining about the leds in general in this thread.

shoota
11-11-2008, 01:25 PM
i like the led's, as long as it performs well i might get one. easy enough to unplug it if i want..

Sparky
11-11-2008, 02:12 PM
If I got one of these blocks I'd put green LEDs in it. Just because I like green :p:
But I don't see how the top cover comes off.

mstrmold
11-11-2008, 02:37 PM
So, who's going to do a nice comparison chart since Martin has retired from block testing?

cegras
11-11-2008, 03:59 PM
The base design is interesting. It looks like instead of pins protruding, they're formed by depressing an area around them.

hotdun
11-11-2008, 04:21 PM
So, who's going to do a nice comparison chart since Martin has retired from block testing?

Skinnee

skinnee
11-11-2008, 04:30 PM
:wasntme:

hotdun
11-11-2008, 04:33 PM
:wasntme:

:rofl: :yepp: :clap:

Malik
12-23-2008, 02:49 AM
Some tests of this block ??

I will buy this awesome stuff, but i need some performance results.

rzd
12-23-2008, 09:15 AM
Some tests of this block ??

I will buy this awesome stuff, but i need some performance results.

Yea, i want that too.

skinnee
12-23-2008, 10:08 AM
Sorry folks, nothing from me.

I will contact Enzo directly and see what transpires.

headala
12-23-2008, 12:05 PM
Cool, thanks Skinnee

Malik
12-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Ok i have ordered this block ... soo i will check luna vs gtz :)

SaiNRuB
12-30-2008, 05:14 PM
Ok i have ordered this block ... soo i will check luna vs gtz :)

Awesome, thanks alot Malik. Ive been waiting for some results myself.

masska
01-10-2009, 04:05 AM
anyone with results yet ? :(

Malik
01-10-2009, 04:44 AM
http://www.abload.de/img/dscf0932p53w.jpg

Today i show results ;)

ElMoIsEviL
01-10-2009, 07:21 AM
I have one coming in the next week or so from NCIX.com for the ol' Q9550 system. I wish they had a mounting mechanism for Socket LGA 1366. I would definitely use it over my Swiftech Apogee GTZ.

Utnorris
01-10-2009, 07:44 AM
They do:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/35581/TYPE-Z%201366/EnzoTech/

Comes with a backplate also. Only issue is, make sure you install your chip first, then the adapter, it blocks the socket lever that holds the chip down, so once installed you can not remove the chip.

ElMoIsEviL
01-10-2009, 07:53 AM
Wow... thanks...:)

I glanced over at NCIX when I bought the Luna and didn't see it.

Malik
01-10-2009, 12:32 PM
http://www.abload.de/img/dscf0947cv6p.jpg

Test in progress ... for this moment:
- luna has better temp in idle than gtz - 1,2 degress
- other important thing: Swifty is more flowkiller:

RPM of MCP 355:
- GTZ: 4055
- Luna: 4355

adpr_02
01-10-2009, 03:56 PM
If those results are consistent, then it is really impressive. Any results with the system under load?

masska
01-10-2009, 04:16 PM
Test in progress ... for this moment:
- luna has better temp in idle than gtz - 1,2 degress
- other important thing: Swifty is more flowkiller:

RPM of MCP 355:
- GTZ: 4055
- Luna: 4355

Looking good Malik, will wait to see the rest of your results and I might just order one myself. :up:

masska
01-10-2009, 04:19 PM
They do:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/35581/TYPE-Z%201366/EnzoTech/

Comes with a backplate also. Only issue is, make sure you install your chip first, then the adapter, it blocks the socket lever that holds the chip down, so once installed you can not remove the chip.

thanks for posting the link. I was looking for a 1366 plate for these :up:

ElMoIsEviL
01-10-2009, 10:18 PM
http://www.abload.de/img/dscf0947cv6p.jpg

Test in progress ... for this moment:
- luna has better temp in idle than gtz - 1,2 degress
- other important thing: Swifty is more flowkiller:

RPM of MCP 355:
- GTZ: 4055
- Luna: 4355

I think I just had an orgasm looking at your setup... it's simply beautiful. You know you're a geek when....

saxile
01-10-2009, 10:21 PM
bitspower is always a sexy work of art, the p0rn of the computer world.

ElMoIsEviL
01-10-2009, 10:43 PM
bitspower is always a sexy work of art, the p0rn of the computer world.

Tell me about it.

If only they made blocks for the Gigabyte EX58-Extreme. I'd be all over it like a fat kid on ice cream.

ElMoIsEviL
01-11-2009, 05:52 AM
They do:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/35581/TYPE-Z%201366/EnzoTech/

Comes with a backplate also. Only issue is, make sure you install your chip first, then the adapter, it blocks the socket lever that holds the chip down, so once installed you can not remove the chip.

You just sold me on that and as for the Bitspower fittings.. I'm going to test some out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/ElMoIsEviL/purchase.png

Malik
01-12-2009, 02:20 AM
http://www.abload.de/img/wykres_lunaodh8.jpg
Some info about test method:

- Program for reading temps: RealTemp 2.90 ( maximum temps was marked )
- Idle mode: 2h work with internet, winamp - Fans on 4V
- Stress mode: 10 loop on 3Dmark vantage with stock gpu -Fans on 12V
- Stock CPU mode: QX9650 3Ghz 1.18V
- OC CPU mode: QX9650 4.4Ghz 1.42V

And something about flow in RPM's ( higher result is better ) :

http://www.abload.de/img/flow6my0.jpg

Harshal
01-12-2009, 05:51 AM
Images are giving me trouble...
anyone else having same problem??

ElMoIsEviL
01-12-2009, 06:14 AM
Images are giving me trouble...
anyone else having same problem??

I was until I visited his gallery now I can see them.

Pretty much the Luna creams the GTZ. I currently am using a GTZ and had ordered a Luna to use it on my Q9550 build.

As you can see above I ordered the Socket 1366 adapter. Luna is going in my main rig. Hellz yeah.

I also just ordered the Enzotech SNBW to replace the stock water block on my EX-58 Extreme. I saw a user on here rig his up with an SNBW and it looked pretty sweet.

Never used an Enzotech product before but it appears they make great stuff.

Mjhieu
01-12-2009, 06:35 AM
Wow. another pretty block, it's so cool, but pls make a test!

Eddie3dfx
01-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Malik, can you repost those results in the forum under a seperate thread?
I think thats excellent that people may skip over.

ci2kla
01-12-2009, 08:17 AM
I'm using this block right now but I don't know if the result is impressed..
For my setup:
Jingway DP-1200 Pump
1/2 hose (changed;))
Rad: BIX 360 w/ 3x 2k rpm 69CFM Fan

Q9550 @1.2v

IBT full load @ 50C. Ambient 17.5C

(not really a review but just for reference only)

WaterFlex
01-12-2009, 09:00 AM
Wow. What about Fusion v2 vs Luna ?

Hondacity
01-12-2009, 09:20 AM
malik

what back plate were you using?
how tight did you mount the waterblocks?
what paste were you using?
what paste application method did you use?
how many mounts did you do on the waterblocks?

my opinion is that the swiftech mounting isn't good, i have to say it, even martin had problems with it, i tested it too and it caused me problems too.

NaeKuh
01-12-2009, 09:38 AM
The Luna 3 C better than the GTZ? Questionable that any of the lastest blocks would beat another by 3 C in a straight up comparison.

Maybe in a mixed block loop starved for flow?:shrug:

andyc

whats my inital guess.

Malik can i see your load temps for each core?

i want to see how even you got it.

Waterlogged
01-12-2009, 09:56 AM
I can't put my finger on it but, something just doesn't seem right. I just tested one of my DDC3.2's for flow vs RPM and was completely unable to sway the RPM's (zero, zip, nada) by adding restriction (ball valve on my testing res). How you managed to achieve a 263 RPM difference is....well....:shrug:

OdinEidolon
01-12-2009, 10:27 AM
may i suggest that enzotech ships one of these beauties to Skinnee for some testing that everyone will accept? (not that i'm questioning your results Malik ;))

NaeKuh
01-12-2009, 10:29 AM
I can't put my finger on it but, something just doesn't seem right. I just tested one of my DDC3.2's for flow vs RPM and was completely unable to sway the RPM's (zero, zip, nada) by adding restriction (ball valve on my testing res). How you managed to achieve a 263 RPM difference is....well....:shrug:


DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)

Reason why its playing so well on his system tho is:

his bitspower freezer.

has to be one the the most restricitive blocks made in history.

Vapor
01-12-2009, 10:44 AM
DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)With modern electronics it's really easy to implement logic that dictates motor speed based on changes in current draw (which occur when restriction changes). This goes all ways--some motors may speed up and some may slow down and some may be controlled to not budge at all.

hellcamino
01-12-2009, 11:05 AM
Yep,

And that's why I never consider a CPU block performance test valid unless it's a CPU only loop. With everything Malik has in that loop, the fluid must of been crawling at way less than 1 GPM with the GTZ. I would imagine he saw his GPU temps drop a tad also with the Luna CPU block.

andyc

Being as most people do run multiple blocks in their loops I would call this type of test great for real world results.

Waterlogged
01-12-2009, 11:13 AM
DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)

Reason why its playing so well on his system tho is:

his bitspower freezer.

has to be one the the most restricitive blocks made in history.

Sorry NaeKuh, this is wrong. I just confirmed it with one of my DDC-2's. As the restriction rises, so does RPM, so the pump Malik is using is a DDC-2 and he's confirmed my suspicions about the Enzo block being very restrictive (probably on par with the EK). How he got the better temps with it though is still a mystery. :shrug:

It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

hellcamino
01-12-2009, 11:47 AM
Depending on impeller design I would think the motor would slow with restriction unless it would just cavitate beyond a certain amount of restriction. Where and how in your loop were you creating the restriction WL?

SNiiPE_DoGG
01-12-2009, 11:52 AM
Sorry NaeKuh, this is wrong. I just confirmed it with one of my DDC-2's. As the restriction rises, so does RPM, so the pump Malik is using is a DDC-2 and he's confirmed my suspicions about the Enzo block being very restrictive (probably on par with the EK). How he got the better temps with it though is still a mystery. :shrug:

It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

my ddc 3.2's spin at RPM's 300 apart, one ~4400 one ~4100

ElMoIsEviL
01-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Yep,

And that's why I never consider a CPU block performance test valid unless it's a CPU only loop. With everything Malik has in that loop, the fluid must of been crawling at way less than 1 GPM with the GTZ. I would imagine he saw his GPU temps drop a tad also with the Luna CPU block.

andyc

So a full loop means lower results for the GTZ because it's more restrictive. This means that a CPU block test only is useless for those of us with several blocks in our loops.

I have two rads, res, an NB, GPU and CPU.

Luna looks to be the better block for me since it's less restrictive.

Vapor
01-12-2009, 12:38 PM
It's pretty easy to test CPU blocks in a low-flow setup, even if it's the only thing in the loop :shrug:

ElMoIsEviL
01-12-2009, 01:33 PM
My point is, maybe so and maybe not. Unless you know and use the exact same blocks and setup, the information and results can be very misleading.

Without the same exact rad, fans, tubing, pump and/or top, blocks and everything else equal, another setup could render totally different results.

Most people would just look at the numbers and automatically think the Luna outperforms the GTZ on a purely thermal basis, which isn't the case. On a ultra low flow system which I see as the test bed here, a low restriction block such as the Luna will outperform a impingement/accelerated type restrictive block like the GTZ. But with flow over 1 GPM upwards to 1.5 GPM, which quite a few multi block loops can run, the Luna wouldn't outperform a block like the GTZ.

So to say the Luna outperforms the GTZ in a multi block loop as real world results isn't very accurate IMO, unless your real world is like the one tested, which is rarely the case.



Sure,

With a flow meter like the King, you can dial it down to anyflow you like. But that won't account for the performance delta between one block dumping heat in the loop and multiple blocks dumping heat. You might see a difference towards better performance on the less restrictive block, but no where near as much I would imagine. At least not 3-4 C.

andyc

My point wasn't that everyone setups is the same but that less restriction can make up for a 3-4C difference. There is no reason why it could not. It all depends on the variables. Either way I have the GTZ and have the Luna coming soon.

As for your claim that with 1 to 1.5GPM the Luna wouldn't outperform the GTZ. Well how do you know this? Because the GTZ is more restrictive? That makes no sense. The design plays a VERY big role. More restrictive doesn't mean higher performing and vice versa.

The Luna uses quite an interesting design that redirects the water stream over a larger area while not limiting flow as much as the GTZ. Interesting design.

hellcamino
01-12-2009, 01:48 PM
I understand what you are saying Mcoffey but the average person watercooling is running a single loop with most cooling cpu and nb and second largest number adding a gpu on the end. Most are likely running between 1-1.5gpm making this type of test very useful information, personally I would like to see the tests performed as a cpu only loop and a multi block loop just for the average and high performance comparison of end user type results.

NaeKuh
01-12-2009, 02:17 PM
It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

oh woops..

:rofl:

ignore me then. Wheres my dunce hat.

hellcamino
01-12-2009, 02:30 PM
http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/GPow69/dunce.gif

You'll have to jack it from the kid but it doesn't look like he would mind...LOL

Malik
01-12-2009, 02:50 PM
My test was simple, i just change cpu blok from gtz for luna. All things are the same. So for me that is realistc test. This is no pro test... so chillout

Someone ask me about which thermal compound - i use Zalman ZM-STG1 which i use all the time.

About RPM's - i read this data with software of my poweradjust panel:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/beztytu322u17ju.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=beztytu322u17ju.jpg)

Where i can control my pump. So if someone is not satisfy with my test ... let wait for pro test. Thats all from me.

NaeKuh
01-12-2009, 02:55 PM
Nah Malik dont take it the wrong way.

We thank you for what you gave us.

Can i see a realtemp picture? I just want to see how even your temps where on your cores at load. :P

Malik
01-12-2009, 03:00 PM
At OC or stock cpu ?

ElMoIsEviL
01-12-2009, 03:16 PM
Because I've tested it in a controlled enviroment, where all things are equal.

Be that as it may, I'm not here trying to convince anyone one block is better than the other, just sharing what I've learned. Enjoy your new block and I hope it works out for you.

andyc

Oh.. do you have a review posted on the forums or elsewhere? I'm honestly interested in the results. I didn't think I'd be seeing such results as the ones Malik posted. I honestly only bought the block for looks (upcoming project).

Malik
01-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Guys i think that we can talk about this veery long time. But for what ?
Luna is nice looking block which has good performance that is fact. Soon we will see pro test i think so who is intersting can read this tests. For now i think that we can much better plan our free time ... for example let's go for a beer :) :) :)

seba84_2005
01-12-2009, 09:37 PM
Guys i think that we can talk about this veery long time. But for what ?
Luna is nice looking block which has good performance that is fact. Soon we will see pro test i think so who is intersting can read this tests. For now i think that we can much better plan our free time ... for example let's go for a beer :) :) :)

Maybe vodka? :owned:

NaeKuh
01-12-2009, 09:39 PM
At OC or stock cpu ?

@ OC please.

want to see what your max delta was from lowest to highest.

That shows me how well the coverage area is on that block.

:up:

Waterlogged
01-12-2009, 10:24 PM
@ Malik, Was the pump voltage the same for all testing?...and exactly which DDC were you using?


Depending on impeller design I would think the motor would slow with restriction unless it would just cavitate beyond a certain amount of restriction. Where and how in your loop were you creating the restriction WL?

Waterlogged's Whacked Out Lab! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVBDJPYYZiQ)

I busted my video/Youtube cherry for ya. :shock2::stick: :rofl::ROTF:


my ddc 3.2's spin at RPM's 300 apart, one ~4400 one ~4100

SNiiPE, not every pump is going to read the same. I figure the RPM sensor has probably ±10% accuracy. The thing I'm talking about (that's shown in the vid), is once to pump starts, it's going to show you pretty much the same RPM's regardless of how you try to restrict the flow. The only way the RPM's will vary on the DDC 3.x like they do on a DDC-2, is if you play with the voltage. I've got 2 DDC 3.1's (just need to solder them) here that I'll check against the DDC 3.2 probably sometime tomorrow to try and varify some kind of RPM range.

skinnee
01-12-2009, 10:37 PM
Nice vid WL!

I am finding that all pumps are not created equal, D5's have the same variability, I don't have an RPM sensor...so just amp draw, flow and pressure. I don't want to completely derail Malik's thread, so I'll start my own on my findings. It was something I always figured, but now I have numbers for it.

Waterlogged
01-13-2009, 08:38 PM
Thanks skinnee, it was a pretty simple test, so I figured "why not?".


SNiiPE, not every pump is going to read the same. I figure the RPM sensor has probably ±10% accuracy. The thing I'm talking about (that's shown in the vid), is once to pump starts, it's going to show you pretty much the same RPM's regardless of how you try to restrict the flow. The only way the RPM's will vary on the DDC 3.x like they do on a DDC-2, is if you play with the voltage. I've got 2 DDC 3.1's (just need to solder them) here that I'll check against the DDC 3.2 probably sometime tomorrow to try and verify some kind of RPM range.

OK, I finally got to testing (a bit later than I wanted thanks to Mother Nature dumping some of that white crap) all my 3.x's trying to verify a RPM range....turns out they are remarkably consistent. The 3.2 (in the video) ran 4350-4380 with a quick spike to 4410 when flow was completely cut off. The 2 solder modded 3.1's ran 4320-4350 and spiked @ 4380 when the flow was cut off. Of course, this was all done with the same PSU so that might have some kind of bearing on the numbers, so I decided to do a single test with a Antec Neopower 650 I have laying around and one of the solder modded pumps, and the RPM's went up to 4350-4380 with a spike to 4410 with no flow. Looks like amps might play some kind of role in determining RPM's for the DDC3.x's, as suggested by Vapor.

Hondacity
01-13-2009, 11:10 PM
i just saw the vid excellt stuff there...

Waterlogged
01-14-2009, 02:35 AM
i just saw the vid excellt stuff there...

Thanks Hc. :up:


And something about flow in RPM's ( higher result is better ) :

http://www.abload.de/img/flow6my0.jpg


Again, I hate to harp on the results of Malik's gracious testing but, this statement and graph were bugging me a bit. With all things being equal....there's no way the pump will spin below what it did in my test unless the voltage was altered. If the tests were conducted at a reduced voltage, it could very well be hurting the results gathered. We know for a fact that the GTZ requires very good pressure to pull top numbers, reducing volts to the pump will hurt the GTZ's performance, possibly quite badly. We've also seen in my test that higher restriction equates to more RPM's with a DDC-2. If the volts were the same for both tests in the graph above, the Enzo is even more restrictive than the GTZ. I've been tinkering around with the testing setup some more and added an original Apogee to the DDC-2, and the RPMs went up ~90-120 RPM's, I then added the POS GT Stealth I have and it went up yet another ~90-120 RPM's. Switching to the 3.2, the RPM's only go up ~60 max.

If the testing wasn't done at the same volts....well...I'm not prepared to go down that dark, dark path at this point.

Fragger
01-14-2009, 02:32 PM
Again, I hate to harp on the results of Malik's gracious testing but,
If the testing wasn't done at the same volts....well...I'm not prepared to go down that dark, dark path at this point.

Sad, Malik was good enough to share his results with us and all you can do is pick it to bits and basically call him a liar. He may well think twice before sharing again in future and I cant say I blame him.

twwen2
01-14-2009, 04:55 PM
Well around here, if you're good and kind enough to share your results, then you're good and kind enough to answer questions or debate the results. I don't believe anyone called anyone a liar. WL ran his own pump test and came up with a different result than Malik, so he posted his question because the two results differ.

This isn't titty baby LC 101 here, we like to ask or question the results so we can learn and understand more.

andyc

Exactly.
I would think and hope that anyone who posts test results is willing to have them studied, dissected and picked to pieces by the others here. Not in a bad way, but all in the name of accurate and consistent testing.

Malik we thank you for your testing and i think we're interested in investigating the RPM difference too. :)

Waterlogged
01-14-2009, 11:07 PM
Sad, Malik was good enough to share his results with us and all you can do is pick it to bits and basically call him a liar. He may well think twice before sharing again in future and I cant say I blame him.

I sincerely thank Malik for doing the test. It's just that I saw something that looked like an inconsistency and decided to "follow my nose". What I found intrigued me so I dug deeper. That led to more and more questions that, as of yet, are unanswered. Those unanswered questions could help explain the results which no one was really expecting. If you read Malik's topic in the Log build sub forum, ppl are believing the results without a second thought. I'm not saying he's lying, he's just not disclosing all the facts. If his MCP355 is a 3.2 then there is some FUD going on with the voltage, if the MCP355 is actually a DDC-2, then the Luna is a very restrictive block that flows less GPM than the GTZ (which is opposite of his RPM chart), this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of...nothing else. :up:

Malik
01-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Sorry guys but this is some stupid talk about me. I don't lie with this what i have done - about test. I only show the difference between this two blocks in my loop. I'm not a pro tester like other here.

So for the last time, i use the same voltage for cpu, the same voltage for pump ( ver. 3.2 - info for WL ), the same thermal compound, the same liquid etc. etc. I made all the SAME for this two blocks.

RPM's i watched in aqua-computer poweradjust software which control my pump. I show you on chart max value of rpm each block - i can check this like this:

http://www.abload.de/img/rpmx0lc.jpg


That is sad...hear something. Maybe next time i just wait for some PRO test.
Now i sitting on laptop so no more test, maybe that is good for me because some here on forum, pro lc people, will not call me a layer.

That's all from me.

mstrmold
01-15-2009, 02:03 PM
That is sad...hear something. Maybe next time i just wait for some PRO test.
Now i sitting on laptop so no more test, maybe that is good for me because some here on forum, pro lc people, will not call me a layer.

That's all from me.

No Malik, I don't think anyone is calling you a liar, I just think many people like to look at other's results and see if they can improve the test results data. I personally like seeing "real world" user tests.

The one thing that is tough to understand and gets lost in translation without emotional expressions in forums (and Instant Messenger for that matter) is the intent and context of a user's posting is sometimes misunderstood. Some read the reply and think "hey, never thought of it this way", while others read it and think its a personal attack. Its really tough to convey what the poster meant. I didn't read this like an attack. It just read like statistical data that, while conflicting with your own results, just shows a different point of view. And really, isn't that what we all do? Give our points of view based on our own experimentation and or experience?

Please, don't stop posting your results. I like have multiple data points to compare to. It helps average out of whats expected against only one point of view. Keep it up! :up:

Waterlogged
01-15-2009, 10:12 PM
Sorry guys but this is some stupid talk about me. I don't lie with this what i have done - about test. I only show the difference between this two blocks in my loop. I'm not a pro tester like other here.

So for the last time, i use the same voltage for cpu, the same voltage for pump ( ver. 3.2 - info for WL ), the same thermal compound, the same liquid etc. etc. I made all the SAME for this two blocks.

RPM's i watched in aqua-computer poweradjust software which control my pump. I show you on chart max value of rpm each block - i can check this like this:

http://www.abload.de/img/rpmx0lc.jpg


That is sad...hear something. Maybe next time i just wait for some PRO test.
Now i sitting on laptop so no more test, maybe that is good for me because some here on forum, pro lc people, will not call me a layer.

That's all from me.

Again, I've never said you lied, but we do seem to have one hell of a conundrum here...don't we. You have a test showing a "spike" differential of 236 RPM's between the block (supposedly due to loss of flow/restriction), and I have a test verifying that the DDC 3.x RPM's don't fluctuate due to restriction. Is there any particular reason you chose to run the test with the pump at less than full power? This could be the curve ball that's screwing everything up in your test. I also don't know if I like the way that RPM's oscillates like that, doesn't seem very steady for testing purposes.

Malik, I may not like the way you change your rig more than a woman changes her mind but, I've always acknowledged your skill and keen eye for style.:up:

@ everyone thinking about doing testing:
There are plenty of ppl that have posted tests here that have been kind enough to list how they do it properly, it would be nice if everyone that does testing would learn from them, so things like this don't happen in the future. If a test can't be done right or withstand the slightest scrutiny, it probably shouldn't be posted.:2cents:

OdinEidolon
01-16-2009, 05:01 AM
italian review. the cooler has 4 different midplates. the site is usually a good one for reviews.

flow rate:
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1179.htm

performance:
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1180.htm

twwen2
01-16-2009, 05:44 AM
Again, I've never said you lied, but we do seem to have one hell of a conundrum here...don't we. You have a test showing a "spike" differential of 236 RPM's between the block (supposedly due to loss of flow/restriction), and I have a test verifying that the DDC 3.x RPM's don't fluctuate due to restriction. ...

I can back that up. I've had a DDC3.2 for about a year now. In my first loop (EK Supreme - CPU only) the rpms read about 4550~4600. Now it's running in a 3-block loop (EK Supreme, NB S-Max, FC-4870) and the rpms are the same as before. I saw no change in rpms between loops of very different restriction. I have the DDC hooked up to my Scythe Kaze meter.

Waterlogged
01-16-2009, 09:48 AM
italian review. the cooler has 4 different midplates. the site is usually a good one for reviews.

flow rate:
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1179.htm

performance:
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1180.htm

Thanks for the links Odin...performance drops in roughly where it was believed to be. :yepp: I'm not crazy about the rad they use but that pump is a little beast. :eek:


I can back that up. I've had a DDC3.2 for about a year now. In my first loop (EK Supreme - CPU only) the rpms read about 4550~4600. Now it's running in a 3-block loop (EK Supreme, NB S-Max, FC-4870) and the rpms are the same as before. I saw no change in rpms between loops of very different restriction. I have the DDC hooked up to my Scythe Kaze meter.

twwen, looks like you have a pretty high amp PSU for the 3.2 to run @ those RPM's. :up:

First chance I get, I'll be taking the testing of the DDC-2 and DDC 3.2 to the next level with more data. I just need to get my hands on some extra gear first. I'll start a new topic for that so keep an eye open.;)

OdinEidolon
01-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the links Odin...performance drops in roughly where it was believed to be. :yepp: I'm not crazy about the rad they use but that pump is a little beast. :eek:

yeah the sanso PDH054 is one of the best pumps around... real 9 meters head pressure! :shocked:
and its dimensions arent too great, its smaller that a mcp655. It costs around 110€ which isnt too much. and 12V, no need for a meanwell 24V dedicated PSU
i'd really like to see that against an IwakiRD-30

here is a good review on the sanso, from the same site: http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/93.htm

Hondacity
01-16-2009, 11:55 AM
odin,

any retailer of that pump? watercoolinguk does not carry it

thanks

Waterlogged
01-16-2009, 12:03 PM
yeah the sanso PDH054 is one of the best pumps around... real 9 meters head pressure! :shocked:
and its dimensions arent too great, its smaller that a mcp655. It costs around 110€ which isnt too much. and 12V, no need for a meanwell 24V dedicated PSU
i'd really like to see that against an IwakiRD-30

here is a good review on the sanso, from the same site: http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/93.htm

I wouldn't mind surrendering a very small portion of that pressure for a bit more flow...hmm, wonder how hard it'd be to make a new top for that.:slobber: Hehe...oh Alex....Quoc...any chance of etting some of these pumps?:D

G-UNIT91
01-16-2009, 12:09 PM
yeah the sanso PDH054 is one of the best pumps around... real 9 meters head pressure! :shocked:
and its dimensions arent too great, its smaller that a mcp655. It costs around 110€ which isnt too much. and 12V, no need for a meanwell 24V dedicated PSU
i'd really like to see that against an IwakiRD-30

here is a good review on the sanso, from the same site: http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/93.htm

Sanso PDH-054 is Iwaki killer!!!:yepp::up:

G-UNIT91
01-16-2009, 12:11 PM
odin,

any retailer of that pump? watercoolinguk does not carry it

thanks

ybris cooling:yepp:

OdinEidolon
01-16-2009, 12:20 PM
odin,

any retailer of that pump? watercoolinguk does not carry it

thanks

the only retailer i have foud till now is ybris cooling, in Italy. i'm pretty sure they ship internationally tho.

more powerful sisters:
http://www.ybris-cooling.it/images/pompe/sanso/pd31-06.jpg

EDIT: shouldnt we stop the OT? maybe a new thread would be a good idea

twwen2
01-17-2009, 12:31 AM
twwen, looks like you have a pretty high amp PSU for the 3.2 to run @ those RPM's. :up:


HX620 baby! :cool:

ElMoIsEviL
01-17-2009, 04:43 AM
So Waterlogged.. where are your results for the Luna that you say you tested and that others are referencing? I asked for them like 2 pages ago. Please, post them.

davidzo
01-17-2009, 06:42 AM
Again, I've never said you lied, but we do seem to have one hell of a conundrum here...don't we. You have a test showing a "spike" differential of 236 RPM's between the block (supposedly due to loss of flow/restriction), and I have a test verifying that the DDC 3.x RPM's don't fluctuate due to restriction. Is there any particular reason you chose to run the test with the pump at less than full power? This could be the curve ball that's screwing everything up in your test. I also don't know if I like the way that RPM's oscillates like that, doesn't seem very steady for testing purposes.


Wrong. RPMs on the DDC do fluctuate! Its due to the nature of the ddc, being a microcontroller driven pump with a hallsensor, that rpm vary! Its somewhat comparable to microcontrollers of the better (3-phase) fans. Their rpms fluctuate too depending on the backpressure u have.
Its only eheim pumps with only two phases, that sometimes use a fixed frequency, but usually the more advanced 12V versions of these pumps use a hallsensor too.

The Hallsensor inside the DDC is what drives the microcontroller and the current on each phase, it is perfectly accurate. And this Hallsensor is what is read by the Aquacomputer poweradjust, its as precise as it can be.
So dont tell me a swissflow or other flowmeter is more precise. After all they are just flow measuring tools with a lot of inaccuracy, whereas the poweradjust shows the actual rpm of the pump.

ElMoIsEviL
01-17-2009, 07:08 AM
Wrong. RPMs on the DDC do fluctuate! Its due to the nature of the ddc, being a microcontroller driven pump with a hallsensor, that rpm vary! Its somewhat comparable to microcontrollers of the better (3-phase) fans. Their rpms fluctuate too depending on the backpressure u have.
Its only eheim pumps with only two phases, that sometimes use a fixed frequency, but usually the more advanced 12V versions of these pumps use a hallsensor too.

The Hallsensor inside the DDC is what drives the microcontroller and the current on each phase, it is perfectly accurate. And this Hallsensor is what is read by the Aquacomputer poweradjust, its as precise as it can be.
So dont tell me a swissflow or other flowmeter is more precise. After all they are just flow measuring tools with a lot of inaccuracy, whereas the poweradjust shows the actual rpm of the pump.

He might not know what a hallsensor is therefore it's best to show it in an image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Hall_sensor_tach.gif

This is turning into a pissing match though. All in all Malik's testing methods were perfect. Anyone claiming a flow meter to be more accurate than a hallsensor needs to go back to engineering school.

It is possible though, that since the GTZ seems to be more restrictive, that there was a lack of flow in the loop to allow it to operate properly. This has been mentioned before. The only other possibility is that the Luna is a better block than the GTZ.

Now all I want is to see waterlogged's data everyone keeps talking about but which I can't find anywhere. this would help greatly in concluding this absurd pissing match affair.

warriorpoet
01-17-2009, 07:31 AM
Sounds good to me, but make mine a cup of fresh back coffee instead:)

andycYes, me too. I just had a nice tall, stiff mug of Boca Java organic Peruvian-- great way to start a day. :D

Waterlogged
01-17-2009, 10:49 AM
So Waterlogged.. where are your results for the Luna that you say you tested and that others are referencing? I asked for them like 2 pages ago. Please, post them.

Please show me where I stated that I tested the Luna? I don't not have, nor will I be getting a Luna. Until this post, you have not directed a single question at me, they were all aimed at mcoffey.


Wrong. RPMs on the DDC do fluctuate! Its due to the nature of the ddc, being a microcontroller driven pump with a hallsensor, that rpm vary! Its somewhat comparable to microcontrollers of the better (3-phase) fans. Their rpms fluctuate too depending on the backpressure u have.
Its only eheim pumps with only two phases, that sometimes use a fixed frequency, but usually the more advanced 12V versions of these pumps use a hallsensor too.

The Hallsensor inside the DDC is what drives the microcontroller and the current on each phase, it is perfectly accurate. And this Hallsensor is what is read by the Aquacomputer poweradjust, its as precise as it can be.
So dont tell me a swissflow or other flowmeter is more precise. After all they are just flow measuring tools with a lot of inaccuracy, whereas the poweradjust shows the actual rpm of the pump.

Did you see the video in the link at the bottom of page 7? Is there something wrong with my testing methodology?


He might not know what a hallsensor is therefore it's best to show it in an image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Hall_sensor_tach.gif

This is turning into a pissing match though. All in all Malik's testing methods were perfect. Anyone claiming a flow meter to be more accurate than a hallsensor needs to go back to engineering school.

It is possible though, that since the GTZ seems to be more restrictive, that there was a lack of flow in the loop to allow it to operate properly. This has been mentioned before. The only other possibility is that the Luna is a better block than the GTZ.

Now all I want is to see waterlogged's data everyone keeps talking about but which I can't find anywhere. this would help greatly in concluding this absurd pissing match affair.

Thanks for thinking I'm stupid. I know what a Hall Effect sensor is as I had one on an after market GM ignition system I purchased for my Buick V6 back in the early 90's.

Perfect?...How can you say running a DDC3.2 @ 75% of full power is a perfect test? The GTZ needs lots of pressure (second only to the Supreme for current gen blocks) to function properly, you will only get that pressure running at full power. The Luna also has 3 inserts that can choose to use or leave out thereby adjusting the restrictiveness of the block. The fact that the RPM's don't match or are even close in the tests is a clear indicator that something is amiss. Anyone that has seen the results and testing methodology of a valid test will say that this test is far from a valid test, the numbers just don't add up.


Nice doing business with y'all, y'all come back again now, ya hear. :wave:

ElMoIsEviL
01-17-2009, 11:05 AM
Please show me where I stated that I tested the Luna? I don't not have, nor will I be getting a Luna. Until this post, you have not directed a single question at me, they were all aimed at mcoffey.



Did you see the video in the link at the bottom of page 7? Is there something wrong with my testing methodology?



Thanks for thinking I'm stupid. I know what a Hall Effect sensor is as I had one on an after market GM ignition system I purchased for my Buick V6 back in the early 90's.

Perfect?...How can you say running a DDC3.2 @ 75% of full power is a perfect test? The GTZ needs lots of pressure (second only to the Supreme for current gen blocks) to function properly, you will only get that pressure running at full power. The Luna also has 3 inserts that can choose to use or leave out thereby adjusting the restrictiveness of the block. The fact that the RPM's don't match or are even close in the tests is a clear indicator that something is amiss. Anyone that has seen the results and testing methodology of a valid test will say that this test is far from a valid test, the numbers just don't add up.


Nice doing business with y'all, y'all come back again now, ya hear. :wave:

And the pissing match begins.

I'm sorry sir but you are wrong. Not on your observation of the pump power bur rather your inability to comprehend that the lower RPMs are accounted for by the higher restriction. The more restriction the more pressure is applied on the pump. It's quite obvious and even your post above states that the GTZ needs more head pressure in order to perform it's best (only second to the EK Supreme).

Now let's look at this logically. If the RPMs are lower when the GTZ is in use yet the power pushed to the pump is the same than one can conclude that the restriction of the GTZ is likely responsible for the lower RPMs.

One would likely not see this in a single block loop but Malik is using multiple blocks and some of them (Bitspower) tend to be highly restrictive.

MCoffey stated this: "Well around here, if you're good and kind enough to share your results, then you're good and kind enough to answer questions or debate the results. I don't believe anyone called anyone a liar. WL ran his own pump test and came up with a different result than Malik, so he posted his question because the two results differ."

So which one of you two tested this block with a similar pump? He says you did and you say he did.

?!

Waterlogged
01-17-2009, 11:08 AM
And the pissing match begins.

I'm sorry sir but you are wrong. Not on your observation of the pump power bur rather your inability to comprehend that the lower RPMs are accounted for by the higher restriction. The more restriction the more pressure is applied on the pump. It's quite obvious and even your post above states that the GTZ needs more head pressure in order to perform it's best (only second to the EK Supreme).

Now let's look at this logically. If the RPMs are lower when the GTZ is in use yet the power pushed to the pump is the same than one can conclude that the restriction of the GTZ is likely responsible for the lower RPMs.

One would likely not see this in a single block loop but Malik is using multiple blocks and some of them (Bitspower) tend to be highly restrictive.

MCoffey stated this: "Well around here, if you're good and kind enough to share your results, then you're good and kind enough to answer questions or debate the results. I don't believe anyone called anyone a liar. WL ran his own pump test and came up with a different result than Malik, so he posted his question because the two results differ."

So which one of you two tested this block with a similar pump than? He says you did and you say he did.

?!

Watch the video in the link at the bottom of page 7. ;)

warriorpoet
01-17-2009, 11:09 AM
I'm sorry sir but you are wrong. Not on your observation of the pump power bur rather your inability to comprehend that the lower RPMs are accounted for by the higher restriction. The more restriction the more pressure is applied on the pump. It's quite obvious and even your post above states that the GTZ needs more head pressure in order to perform it's best (only second to the EK Supreme).ya'know, EiE, you really should take a serious look at his testing. ;)

edit: I shoulda' known WL would beat me to it :D

ElMoIsEviL
01-17-2009, 11:19 AM
ya'know, EiE, you really should take a serious look at his testing. ;)

edit: I shoulda' known WL would beat me to it :D

I don't believe his testing..:)

Try this... apply restriction on both ends.

Inlet and Outlet.

Your test only applies it to the outlet. Malik's loop contains a closed loop applying restrictions on both ends.

Waterlogged
01-17-2009, 11:26 AM
I don't believe his testing..:)

Try this... apply restriction on both ends.

Inlet and Outlet.

Your test only applies it to the outlet. Malik's loop contains a closed loop applying restrictions on both ends.

You know, Malik uses a res as well ;)...and how is my loop not closed? Actually, I questioned that myself before I ever did the video and got the same results.

I'll be more than happy to do as you request, it's gonna take me some time though as I'm gearing the test loop up to retrieve more data. I'll do it at that time. :up:

SiGfever
01-17-2009, 11:51 AM
When I changed from a FuZion v1 to the GTZ my rpm's increased by about 150-190 rpm with my DDC-2 pump. Same pump, same loop, same 12vdc power, just different CPU blocks.

It is almost like a little "freq drive" sensing "back emf" to increase pump speed under load. :)

Migi06
01-17-2009, 11:51 AM
How about this test:
http://img1.abload.de/img/cpu-wassera0kh.jpg
http://img1.abload.de/img/durchflussx8mo.jpg
http://74.125.43.102/translate_c?hl=fi&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D549569&usg=ALkJrhgrKQnDMkRJHRYssi8sma9CW2U1Wg

Zehnsucht
01-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Wow. My DDC 3.2 only runs at 2033 RPM as reported by SpeedFan.
But if I squeeze the tubing, the RPM will go up.

Waterlogged
01-17-2009, 02:08 PM
When I changed from a FuZion v1 to the GTZ my rpm's increased by about 150-190 rpm with my DDC-2 pump. Same pump, same loop, same 12vdc power, just different CPU blocks.

It is almost like a little "freq drive" sensing "back emf" to increase pump speed under load. :)

Yep, that's exactly how my DDC-2 works as well. The DDC3.x however got a radical circuit re-design that prohibits this from happening to that extent.


How about this test:
http://img1.abload.de/img/cpu-wassera0kh.jpg
http://img1.abload.de/img/durchflussx8mo.jpg
http://74.125.43.102/translate_c?hl=fi&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D549569&usg=ALkJrhgrKQnDMkRJHRYssi8sma9CW2U1Wg

Bundy does not test CPU only loops which you really need for medium to high restriction blocks like the GTZ, Supreme. He has decent testing equipment and gets the most out of it. The only piece of equipment I don't like is the MO-Ra 2, it's a condenser type heat exchanger that is inefficient and it has more turns than Nürburgring which is bad for flow. His tests do show what the end user will roughly get if they decide to use that particular hardware though. Around here, when a test is done for a block, the only block in the loop should be the one being tested, this gives you uncorrupted data on that block. You don't have to worry that some other block has dropped the flow to a point that has possibly affected the results negitively. Most ppl that are worried about every last will degree have 2 separate loops for this very reason and value the single block only reviews greatly. Here's Martin's last test with 16 CPU blocks (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206712), note how the temp results are very different for the Supreme and OCZ from Bundy's, the gap between them is much wider in Martin's. This is because he had enough pressure to sustain a proper flow rate for the Supreme whereas the OCZ doesn't benefit as much from pressure.



Wow. My DDC 3.2 only runs at 2033 RPM as reported by SpeedFan.
But if I squeeze the tubing, the RPM will go up.

By how much?

If you can provide some other means to verify this, I'd be happy to hear what you think might be wrong with my test in the video. All the evidence I have, which as also been backed up by twwen, says that there may be a slight jump in RPM's of the DDC 3.x (30 or so RPM's), but not the kind of jump you'll see in a DDC-2 with the same amount of restriction applied.

LinusTech
01-17-2009, 04:04 PM
Probably not helping anything here but in my loop (PA120.3, 2x MCW60, EX58-EXTERME NB block, LUNA-type prototype, MCP655@1, 3/8" Primoflex, 3/8 perfect seals, BP compressions & 1/2" high flows) the "Luna" style block (can't talk about it) outperforms the APOGEE GTZ on my 4GHz Core i7 920 by a degree or two depending on the core under load. Ambients were somewhat controlled, but not entirely, but I'm confident enough to call them competitive with each other within margin of error.

Again a low flow loop though.

The fact that you can't get any high flow dedicated CPU loop testing done might indicate how many people actually do that (in the grand scheme of things... Not just here at XS).

SiGfever
01-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Probably not helping anything here but in my loop (PA120.3, 2x MCW60, EX58-EXTERME NB block, LUNA-type prototype, MCP655@1, 3/8" Primoflex, 3/8 perfect seals, BP compressions & 1/2" high flows) the "Luna" style block (can't talk about it) outperforms the APOGEE GTZ on my 4GHz Core i7 920 by a degree or two depending on the core under load. Ambients were somewhat controlled, but not entirely, but I'm confident enough to call them competitive with each other within margin of error.

Again a low flow loop though.

The fact that you can't get any high flow dedicated CPU loop testing done might indicate how many people actually do that (in the grand scheme of things... Not just here at XS).

You are such a tease. :rofl:

Zehnsucht
01-17-2009, 05:30 PM
By how much?

If you can provide some other means to verify this, I'd be happy to hear what you think might be wrong with my test in the video. All the evidence I have, which as also been backed up by twwen, says that there may be a slight jump in RPM's of the DDC 3.x (30 or so RPM's), but not the kind of jump you'll see in a DDC-2 with the same amount of restriction applied.

Ahh nono, don't take it that way, I watched your video and I concur with your findings. I tested another program to read the RPM and it didn't fluctuate as bad as it did with speedfan. It didn't really budge. But I don't understand how you can have 4000 RPM while I only have a little more than 2k...

SiGfever
01-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Ahh nono, don't take it that way, I watched your video and I concur with your findings. I tested another program to read the RPM and it didn't fluctuate as bad as it did with speedfan. It didn't really budge. But I don't understand how you can have 4000 RPM while I only have a little more than 2k...

Mine runs around 4300.

Waterlogged
01-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Ahh nono, don't take it that way, I watched your video and I concur with your findings. I tested another program to read the RPM and it didn't fluctuate as bad as it did with speedfan. It didn't really budge. But I don't understand how you can have 4000 RPM while I only have a little more than 2k...

Ah, sorry.

The only things I can come up with are either your amps are getting hit pretty hard or it's actually a DDC 3.1. After I did the video, I did a couple quick tests with other PSU's before I broke down the test setup. One of those quickies was with an old 220W Shuttle PSU and the RPM's on my 3.2 dropped by 1000.

Zehnsucht
01-18-2009, 02:56 AM
Final Off-topic:
HAHAHA! I messed up my cable sleeving BIG TIME! I've only been running @ 5V for almost a year :) Wow, it speeded up now, and it seems that there were a lot of air in the radiator left...

[XC] riptide
01-18-2009, 03:46 AM
Insultiung posts deleted. Pain dished out. Move along.....

Migi06
01-18-2009, 03:53 AM
Bundy does not test CPU only loops which you really need for medium to high restriction blocks like the GTZ, Supreme. He has decent testing equipment and gets the most out of it. The only piece of equipment I don't like is the MO-Ra 2, it's a condenser type heat exchanger that is inefficient and it has more turns than Nürburgring which is bad for flow. His tests do show what the end user will roughly get if they decide to use that particular hardware though. Around here, when a test is done for a block, the only block in the loop should be the one being tested, this gives you uncorrupted data on that block. You don't have to worry that some other block has dropped the flow to a point that has possibly affected the results negitively. Most ppl that are worried about every last will degree have 2 separate loops for this very reason and value the single block only reviews greatly. Here's Martin's last test with 16 CPU blocks (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206712), note how the temp results are very different for the Supreme and OCZ from Bundy's, the gap between them is much wider in Martin's. This is because he had enough pressure to sustain a proper flow rate for the Supreme whereas the OCZ doesn't benefit as much from pressure.

Also his CPU is Dual core wich can get different results too and I dont know was the CPU lapped or not (If not then stepped base should be better)...

Waterlogged
01-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Final Off-topic:
HAHAHA! I messed up my cable sleeving BIG TIME! I've only been running @ 5V for almost a year :) Wow, it speeded up now, and it seems that there were a lot of air in the radiator left...

:eek:

I'm surprised it ran at all, I didn't think it would start that low. Bet your temps drop a little. :up:

AndreaBZ
01-25-2009, 04:45 PM
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3601266&postcount=49

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206542

lexusxxx
01-26-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3601266&postcount=49

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206542



I considered as Rev.A the enzotech Luna tested by Nexthardware with the best nozzle.

What of these three nozzles is the best? for the core i7? The first with it is left, the second or the third?
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/20090124203417_icon_oo_33725_export_html_7345ab31. jpg
http://www.nexthardware.com/image/oo_33725_export_html_m7ed617cd.htm
http://www.nexthardware.com/image/oo_33725_export_html_7345ab31.htm

headala
01-26-2009, 11:34 AM
What's the difference between the Rev A and original? They looked about the same to me :shrug:

AndreaBZ
01-27-2009, 03:59 PM
What's the difference between the Rev A and original? They looked about the same to me :shrug:

http://www.enzotechnology.com/luna.htm

1,5° !

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg)

AndreaBZ
01-27-2009, 04:07 PM
What of these three nozzles is the best? for the core i7? The first with it is left, the second or the third?


I do not know.......
Next hardware Defines the best nozzle as ..."straight" ?

headala
01-27-2009, 06:47 PM
http://www.enzotechnology.com/luna.htm

1,5° !

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg)

Yeah, I saw their performance data, but what is the physical difference?

Waterlogged
01-27-2009, 11:06 PM
http://www.enzotechnology.com/luna.htm

1,5° !

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128005844_luna_reva_p.jpg)


I saw that graph earlier and to me, it's totally worthless. They show nothing more than the hardware cooled and temps/flow rate achieved...where is the data of what equipment was used to do the cooling besides the Luna?...What were ambients for the tests?...Are any of those tests using those nozzles?

Damn it...just when I think I'm done with it, this topic keeps sucking me back in! :shakes:

Fragger
01-28-2009, 01:29 AM
I saw that graph earlier and to me, it's totally worthless.

No data is "worthless", take from it what you will.
I get the feeling no test could satisfy you.
You need to chill and stop bashing every test, its really not cool.

AndreaBZ
01-28-2009, 04:19 AM
I saw that graph earlier and to me, it's totally worthless. They show nothing more than the hardware cooled and temps/flow rate achieved...where is the data of what equipment was used to do the cooling besides the Luna?...What were ambients for the tests?...Are any of those tests using those nozzles?

Damn it...just when I think I'm done with it, this topic keeps sucking me back in! :shakes:

I do not know what to say.... The above is a chart published by "Enzotech"
http://www.enzotechnology.com/luna.htm


Instead this is :
Nexthardware test ....
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1178.htm
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1179.htm
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1180.htm

Confirms the chart published by "Enzotech".

Waterlogged
01-28-2009, 10:34 AM
No data is "worthless", take from it what you will.
I get the feeling no test could satisfy you.
You need to chill and stop bashing every test, its really not cool.

Au contraire, mon frère

Just look through any of Martin's, mcoffey's, skinnee's, nikhsub1's, or Petra's tests/reviews and I'm sure you'll see me ask a question or two but I don't remember ever questioning the results. Heck, I even had 3 posts in Gabe's "informal review" and they were mostly OT. The only tests I question are the ones with questionable results. ;)


I do not know what to say.... The above is a chart published by "Enzotech"
http://www.enzotechnology.com/luna.htm


Instead this is :
Nexthardware test ....
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1178.htm
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1179.htm
http://www.nexthardware.com/recensioni/scheda/142_1180.htm

Confirms the chart published by "Enzotech".

Sorry, vkbms's test, in my eyes, does not confirm Enzo's graphs. He posts delta temps, not actual CPU temps. What exactly is the difference between the Luna and Luna rev. A? Is it something internally?....or is it just the addition of some nozzle inserts? If it's just nozzles, that alone makes the block better in most cases and is hardly note worthy in the way Enzo is presenting that information, more of a P.T. Barnum tactic if you ask me.

It would be nice if vkbms would drop in here and help dispel some of the hype/myths/rumors that apparently surround this block.

NaeKuh
01-28-2009, 10:41 AM
Naekuh heatkiller version 666.

available in stores soon!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/therearebetterwaysrj1.jpg

can we all just along?

ElMoIsEviL
01-28-2009, 10:45 AM
Au contraire, mon frère

Just look through any of Martin's, mcoffey's, skinnee's, nikhsub1's, or Petra's tests/reviews and I'm sure you'll see me ask a question or two but I don't remember ever questioning the results. Heck, I even had 3 posts in Gabe's "informal review" and they were mostly OT. The only tests I question are the ones with questionable results. ;)



Sorry, vkbms's test, in my eyes, does not confirm Enzo's graphs. He posts delta temps, not actual CPU temps. What exactly is the difference between the Luna and Luna rev. A? Is it something internally?....or is it just the addition of some nozzle inserts? If it's just nozzles, that alone makes the block better in most cases and is hardly note worthy in the way Enzo is presenting that information, more of a P.T. Barnum tactic if you ask me.

It would be nice if vkbms would drop in here and help dispel some of the hype/myths/rumors that apparently surround this block.

Well I've been running the Luna Rev. A for a few days now and so far it's showing lower temps than my Swiftech GTZ with a Core i7 920.

I don't really need anymore proof than my own eyes. The tests shown here seem to be right in-line with what I, Malik and any other person who bought the block have seen.

Believe what you want.

Waterlogged
01-28-2009, 10:57 AM
Well I've been running the Luna Rev. A for a few days now and so far it's showing lower temps than my Swiftech GTZ with a Core i7 920.

I don't really need anymore proof than my own eyes. The tests shown here seem to be right in-line with what I, Malik and any other person who bought the block have seen.

Believe what you want.

I don't believe your testing..:) :p: :ROTF: (sorry, I just felt an urge to return the favor);)

With or w/o nozzles? If with, which 1? Pump, rad? Single or multi block loop? How much is it beating the GTZ in your case?

AndreaBZ
01-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Sorry, vkbms's test, in my eyes, does not confirm Enzo's graphs. He posts delta temps, not actual CPU temps. What exactly is the difference between the Luna and Luna rev. A? Is it something internally?....or is it just the addition of some nozzle inserts? If it's just nozzles, that alone makes the block better in most cases and is hardly note worthy in the way Enzo is presenting that information, more of a P.T. Barnum tactic if you ask me.

It would be nice if vkbms would drop in here and help dispel some of the hype/myths/rumors that apparently surround this block.


http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128211827_xxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128211827_xxxxxxxx.jpg) http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128211908_xxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128211908_xxxxxxxxx.jpg)

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128211938_xxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128211938_xxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

Of course, the difference is proportional to Watts

Watt Next hardware 126
flow rate l/h 300
Enzotech LUNA Stock C°/W=0,1544
Enzotech LUNA + best nozzle ( rev.A ? ) C°/W=0,1389

Difference C°/W=0,0155------
Difference at 126 watt=1,95°, at 200 watt= 3,10°.

Zehnsucht
01-28-2009, 01:12 PM
Are you using only three points to extrapolate a polynomial graph?

Vapor
01-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Looks like it :eek:

Zehnsucht
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM
It's pictures like that which makes me doubt the self-proclaimed experts.

Anyone who have tried experimentally to determine the gravitational acceleration or a certain spring constant only by sampling in certain time frames realizes that three samples is WAAAY to little to draw any conclusions when dealing with (k*x^n+m) functions.

NaeKuh
01-28-2009, 01:53 PM
Anyone who have tried experimentally to determine the gravitational acceleration or a certain spring constant only by sampling in certain time frames realizes that three samples is WAAAY to little to draw any conclusions when dealing with (k*x^n+m) functions.

:rofl:

And only 1% of the readers in this thread will understand what your talking about on this post.

but i agree with ya.

AndreaBZ
01-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Are you using only three points to extrapolate a polynomial graph?

Three points are sufficient.
For the type of equation (curve) that I use
(Not a polynomial)

Zehnsucht
01-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Three points are sufficient.
For the type of equation (curve) that I use
(Not a polynomial)

You could be right, it's quite possible it's not a poly function. My bad.
I still believe you need more than three points to describe a system which is not linear.

Out of curiosity, what is the equation?

AndreaBZ
01-28-2009, 02:28 PM
You could be right, it's quite possible it's not a poly function. My bad.
I still believe you need more than three points to describe a system which is not linear.

Out of curiosity, what is the equation?

.......... polynomial .......... ??

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128232416_xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128232416_xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

............ top secret :D

[XC] riptide
01-28-2009, 02:33 PM
.......... polynomial .......... ??

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090128232416_xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090128232416_xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

............ top secret :D


Have you calculated error bars for that graph?

Zehnsucht
01-28-2009, 02:55 PM
.......... polynomial .......... ??

............ top secret :D

You do know that the expression y=x^2+x+m is a polynomial?

EDIT:
Well obviously you didn't. But now you know.

And you really can't let excel generate the curve for you. You must let the measured up points create the curve, not the other way around.

Vapor
01-28-2009, 03:00 PM
You do know that the expression y=x^2+x+m is a polynomial?

EDIT:
Well obviously you didn't. But now you know.I think he was showing that a polynomial trendline looks like with those three data points (and how it's not the trendline he's using).

Still, I don't think three data points is a very solid basis for creating a trendline with a massive amount of extrapolation. :shakes:

Zehnsucht
01-28-2009, 03:10 PM
I think he was showing that a polynomial trendline looks like with those three data points (and how it's not the trendline he's using).


Oh yes, you are correct. I didn't catch that. Obviously I need sleep.

:peace:

I still agree with Vapor though.

AndreaBZ
01-29-2009, 04:15 AM
Another example... with five points

The equation that I use (very similar to a hyperbolic function):

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129130442_xxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129130442_xxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

polynomial trendline (Excel):
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129135152_xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129135152_xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

The first curve, to me , describe correctly the physical phenomenon.........
follows the points and approaching asymptotically the X axis.
Is very precise for flow rate 100/800 lph........... and also > 800 lph.
Likely for flow rate < 50? lph is less accurate (wrong).

The second curve simply follows the data, right or wrong.

************************************************** **********************************
:confused:

equation that I use :

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

if k = 1 and n = 1 ...............

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129145926_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129145926_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

which is the equation of hyperbole "equilatera"

Zehnsucht
01-29-2009, 06:02 AM
During the lunch break I calculated the function used. It may not be accurate outside the interval [100 800]

f(x) = 0.100248 * x^-0.1 + m, where m is 0.0819907 and 0.0975 (the latter I just made an educated guesstimate).

Max deviation I get is between the aX^n numbers and my calculated is 0.00018014, which is good enough in my book.

Can I has a gold starr?

AndreaBZ
01-29-2009, 09:36 AM
During the lunch break I calculated the function used. It may not be accurate outside the interval [100 800]

f(x) = 0.100248 * x^-0.1 + m, where m is 0.0819907 and 0.0975 (the latter I just made an educated guesstimate).

Max deviation I get is between the aX^n numbers and my calculated is 0.00018014, which is good enough in my book.

Can I has a gold starr?


equation that I use :

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

if k = < 1 and n = < 0 ...............
The equation becomes

Y = k * X^n :D:D

that is the formula used by Excel :D
The same formula used by Martin........for the radiators
Delta temp. vs RPM (Air rate)

"...........The first curve, to me , describe correctly the physical phenomenon.........
follows the points and approaching asymptotically the X axis.
Is very precise for flow rate 100/800 lph........... and also > 800 lph.
Likely for flow rate < 50? lph is less accurate (wrong).
............. "
See above

NaeKuh
01-29-2009, 09:55 AM
All I know is, the block works pretty good at keeping the CPU cooler. Just put it on my test bench last night, and I'm quite surprised.

Very nice block,

andyc

the block uses cathars pitted design from his storm.

i wouldnt be suprised.

Waterlogged
01-29-2009, 10:22 AM
All I know is, the block works pretty good at keeping the CPU cooler. Just put it on my test bench last night, and I'm quite surprised.

Very nice block,

andyc

Andy, please tell me your doing a proper posted review of this block? It would be nice to actually see how it performs compared to the V2, GTZ and Supreme and not find some kind of egregious error in the results....then maybe I can shut up and this topic can die. :up::ROTF:

Waterlogged
01-29-2009, 11:44 AM
I'll be glad to let you and other's know the results direct if you would like. Just received my CF/Dallas Matrix temp monitoring HW/SW via UPS today, so I'll have the new bench set up proper ready for some serious testing tonight.

<img snip>

Should have some prelim stuff by the end of the weekend,

andyc

Take your time Andy, and PM me the final results. :up:
Are you planning on testing all the nozzles?

AndreaBZ
01-29-2009, 11:47 AM
I'll be glad to let you and other's know the results direct if you would like. Just received my CF/Dallas Matrix temp monitoring HW/SW via UPS today, so I'll have the new bench set up proper ready for some serious testing tonight.

Should have some prelim stuff by the end of the weekend,

andyc

temperature difference (Core CPU - H2O)
at different flow rate? ......... three or four ? ;)

Vapor
01-29-2009, 11:54 AM
What's the major difference between the latest rev, and the original Luna when it was first released?Accommodation and inclusion of nozzles I think :p:

i.e., Rev. A comes with nozzles and works with nozzles while the original can't even fit/take the nozzles.

Looking forward to your results :D

My CF/Dallas probes should be here fairly shortly too :lol:

Vapor
01-29-2009, 11:56 AM
What does that mean, please clarify????

andycI think he wants data in a few varieties, or is wondering if you're going to do it.

1) CPU temps minus water-in temps.

2) #1 as it changes with a decrease/increase in flowrates.

Waterlogged
01-29-2009, 12:01 PM
Not sure really. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure what revision of the block I have, or if it take nozzles.

One things for sure though, it's working pretty good just the way it is.:up: Once I see how well this one measures up against a Supreme, I might just buy the latest version.

What's the major difference between the latest rev, and the original Luna when it was first released?

andyc

Not sure myself. All the images I've seen of both rev's show them both to be very similar internally. It'd be nice if Enzo-Tech(Dav) could magically re-appear and explain the differences. :yepp:

Vapor
01-29-2009, 12:11 PM
equation that I use :

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129143516_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

if k = < 1 and n = < 0 ...............
The equation becomes

Y = k * X^n :D:D

that is the formula used by Excel :D
The same formula used by Martin........for the radiators
Delta temp. vs RPM (Air rate)

"...........The first curve, to me , describe correctly the physical phenomenon.........
follows the points and approaching asymptotically the X axis.
Is very precise for flow rate 100/800 lph........... and also > 800 lph.
Likely for flow rate < 50? lph is less accurate (wrong).
............. "
See aboveA trendline with so few datapoints (and tightly packed datapoints in the grand scheme of things) really shouldn't be used for so much extrapolation. What's worse is that the endpoints of the actual data have the largest error compared to the trendline--does not bode well for the accuracy of the extrapolation.

I've played a lot with c/w vs. fan RPM for aircoolers and power trendlines do not extrapolate well at all. They look the nicest and are certainly the lesser of 6 evils, but the power trendlines do not play well with cooling functions when it comes to extrapolation (long story short--they lack accurate vertical asymptotic behavior as flow approaches 0 and also don't give due justice to the diminishing returns behavior of flow in waterblocks).

The interpolative strength of a trendline is viable and great for estimators, but I'd really really be careful with so much extrapolation :-/ You're doing a lot of extrapolation using a trendline that doesn't even really match the few datapoints you have, especially not at the extremes of the data :-/

NaeKuh
01-29-2009, 12:23 PM
blah andy i just want to know what performs better and at what flow cost.

thanks please! :up:

AndreaBZ
01-29-2009, 02:42 PM
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090129234055_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090129234055_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)

AndreaBZ
01-29-2009, 04:19 PM
As I said earlier,

That information means absolutley nothing without the asscociated core temps and ambeint rad air in temp. At least not to me.

Do you have those plots also?

andyc

http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090130011739_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090130011739_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206542

Waterlogged
01-29-2009, 08:05 PM
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1067/extrapolationbadfk1.jpg

:D

autobot
01-29-2009, 08:27 PM
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200901/th_20090130011739_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg (http://www.pctunerup.com/up/image.php?src=_200901/20090130011739_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg)


I hate to say this, but what is the purpose of this chart?
It just shows that 2 setups with identical computer and cooling components equal the same results. :shrug:

LockBreaker
01-31-2009, 04:11 PM
If D-Tek not soon releases their 1366 mounts for the Fuzion V1 I think I will be going with this one for my 1366 Core i7 setup. :)

The block looks great, but hows the performance? Saw Malik had some numbers, where the Luna performed better comparing to the GTZ. :)

Sarg
01-31-2009, 09:04 PM
my next build is on the I7 chip and WCing it, so You have yet another set of eyes on ya, tis okay no pressure :D I like the way it looks and yes that goes for the funky little binky light on it. :) So yes seeing some Stats on this puppy will nice.

LockBreaker
02-01-2009, 04:06 AM
Anyone who knows if the BP 7/16" ID 5/8" OD will fit the Enzotech Luna without those 45 degree fittings from BP? :)

Leeghoofd
02-06-2009, 06:36 AM
I just received my 2 samples ( with one brand new block, can't tell the name for NDA) from Enzotech will test them next week on the I7 platform (when my probes get here) against the EK supreme, Swiftech GTZ and co...

Again tests will be kept simple and reproduced in coretemp charts at stock, 3.6-3.8 and 4ghz clocks (like the swiftech review) but also with added in and out watertemps...

OdinEidolon
02-06-2009, 08:17 AM
I just received my 2 samples ( with one brand new block, can't tell the name for NDA) from Enzotech will test them next week on the I7 platform (when my probes get here) against the EK supreme, Swiftech GTZ and co...

Again tests will be kept simple and reproduced in coretemp charts at stock, 3.6-3.8 and 4ghz clocks (like the swiftech review) but also with added in and out watertemps...

when will this new block be avaiable you know?

Leeghoofd
02-06-2009, 10:02 AM
I will post some piccies later on...

http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/1366%20block%20roundup/enzotech%20002.jpg

http://users.telenet.be/OAP2/1366%20block%20roundup/enzotech%20005.jpg

Exterior looks alike, but inside it's totally different... can't wait to test these blocks...