To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

[Movieman]

One of the mods here got this in a PM today.
No names as the names aren't important but the message is.
Here's the message:
That's what happened to the system I was gonna build. The fanbois, and the idiots, and the hateful s in the watercooling forum is what ran me off, and I won't be associated with it.

I had to send XXXXXXXXX an e-mail apologizing for wasting his time and had to tell him I won't be purchasing the rest of the cooling gear I was going to.

This forum was THE number one source for watercooling info, but lately it has changed. People go in there for help and all they get is hate wars, fanboism, and is gotten so bad that sometimes the stuff recommended is just plain wrong and people end up with bad combinations of expensive gear.

The thumbs down is signifying the fact that I like to come here for good info, and like to study things and build systems the right way based on people's experiences. I don't wanna hear fanboi's jumping in every thread saying "EK Supreme is the shiznaz....FTW!!!" or some punkass comment.

I've really had it. It takes alot to run me off. I have patience of stone, but they have ran out. I also know that the mods here are sick of it.

What will probably happen is in about 3 months they finally wear out their welcome say something stupid and get perm banned, and then things will get back to normal and people will start coming back. Heck, even I might come back, but right now, it's at leat 3 months away because i just dropped 2 of the 3 grand I was gonna use on this new system on rocket supplies and will be busy with that for the next 3-4 months at least.

The thumbs down is a sign of the damage people have caused to that forum and to other peoples businesses.


Pretty sad when XS runs off a member because of comments made here.
My thinking is that what has happened here has a bit to do with ego's and also with associations with companies.
Ego's should be left at the door when you come here to XS.
They aren't needed or wanted and quite honestly mean zilch.
Company associations on the other hand are a non issue when handled openly and honestly and in a positive manner.
Example of positive: Gabe coming here and showing a new product.
Example of negative: XXXX member who has a quiet association with company A badmouthing company B to try and gain an advantage.
Pretty rotten huh and if I even think that is happening I ban the SOB so fast his head will spin.
We play fair here and as adults or we don't play at all.
This section used to be a joy to come to but not lately.
To those that know me I'm a pretty fair person BUT only with decent people.
To the haters I can be a miserable SOB as I can't stand someone who is here to troll and flamebait.
When someone new comes in here they are owed, yes OWED courtesy by all of us and if you can't give that then don't post. It's that simple.
Act as friends in a friendly manner or keep your mouth closed.
If you get off on harassing people then get the F out of here as we don't want you and trust me, we'll get you removed from XS.
Thanks for reading and to all the positive people that frequent this section my apologies for having to post this but seeing that kid's message just hit home and told me something had to be done and done now.

[BlueAqua]

Thank you for posting this. I'm getting completely sick of the one sided product endorsements all the time too, by some people who have never even used them.

We should all be on the same page and not against one another. We're all the same really.

[bentleya]

thank you who ever sent that pm :D i just hope it gets sorted it out, i myself have only been here few months and the about of hate and fnboisism i got in a thread i got asked to post up by a company. is just unbelivball. even there a knid mod spent hours yesterday going though the thread just a big thanks to him. i join as many people said what i nice places it was, and i havent posted my logs, as i was scared of the piss be ripped from me :D but that may all change

thanks :D

[Movieman]

Thank you for posting this. I'm getting completely sick of the one sided product endorsements all the time too, by some people who have never even used them.

We should all be on the same page and not against one another. We're all the same really.

Exactly. This section, like all the others here, should be for the exchange of information that benefits all.
The issues are ego's and company ties as I mewntioned and the quest for the customers dollar. Fine when the product is shown in an honest light and the game plaiyed fair but nasty when one badmouths another just to get a sale.
Add in the BS between individuals and you don't have a place for learning but caos.
It's subtle game that has gone on to promote one compaines products over anothers with the goal of money made but I'll say it again, that crap stops and stops today.

[Omastar]

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum. Well done. Let's just let the WC wars die already.

[dionysio]

it seems there are alot of people trying to support certain firms. most manufacturers did and do ship questionable parts. we have to tell friends the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. any bad experience must be reported.

[turtletrax]

Thanks Movieman. A great move in the right direction.

Stand fast and all will be well ;)

Too the member that decided to leave, I hope you keep an eye out for the changes and hope things get back to greatness and you see fit to return. But I also thank you for PMing MM. Thanks for this.

[Movieman]

it seems there are alot of people trying to support certain firms. most manufacturers did and do ship questionable parts. we have to tell friends the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. any bad experience must be reported.

Actually I think overall most manufacturers ship pretty good parts but I think they all are human and once in a while get a lemon.
I can see showing a issue with a part such as Naekuh did with those steel parts from Koolance. That is good and what is needed but when you see Joe Blow badmouthing everything except X product and then find out that he works for that company then it's time to step in and get him the hell out of here.

[Kayin]

Glad to see this. I'm far less active here than I once was, mostly from insinuations and :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana: comments. I stalled out my custom work and put the entire shop in mothballs cause I was convinced I wasn't making any progress, and that nobody cared.

However, school started back, and I had a friend check my numbers (got him to come from B'ham to do so, an hour+ drive) and what did I find?

These people spreading hate are morons. Now that I see some effort made to rein them in (and I know how hard it is, been a forum mod more than once) I think I'll be back, showing some stuff and garnering new ideas.

There are people here whose opinion I value highly, and people who I could care less. I'm not gonna let that minority cause me to lose the benefit of the majority.

Meh, does that make me one of the manufacturers, then? I like to think of myself as "obsessed cruncher."

[dionysio]

Actually I think overall most manufacturers ship pretty good parts but I think they all are human and once in a while get a lemon.
I can see showing a issue with a part such as Naekuh did with those steel parts from Koolance. That is good and what is needed but when you see Joe Blow badmouthing everything except X product and then find out that he works for that company then it's time to step in and get him the hell out of here.

i bought many koolance parts. i have many taps that rusted. not all of them though. it seems the problem is in the nickel plating. it was not properly done in all batches.also i am not sure about the d5 tops. they seem nickel plated but koolance did not 100% guarantee them.instead they told me to use a good fluid to prevent corrosion. i chose feser as it seems its very good. the 1/2 barbs are excellent. nickel plated and slimmer than ther rest. they fit perfectly to d'tek fuzion v2 and allow any type of tubing to fit well.


but this is not a thread about products. i hope to give a good example on how an opinion should be written. i think i was a 100% objective.

[gillbot]

I have gotten some flack about upgrading to an EK supreme but my cheap ass prohibits it. Plus I think my Apogee GT does well enough and the extra $$$ to upgrade to me isn't worth a few extra C.

[fart_plume]

Along with Movieman's comments. I will add this people come here to get advice. instead of telling some to buy different parts than they already have(some people just don't have the money to drop on more parts) Help them resolve the issues that they are having.

[Movieman]

I have gotten some flack about upgrading to an EK supreme but my cheap ass prohibits it. Plus I think my Apogee GT does well enough and the extra $$$ to upgrade to me isn't worth a few extra C.

I agree with you. There may well be a block that is 1-3C better than the ST ApogeeGT but I've had a pair of clovertown's dumping almost 300W of heat load thru them since August 2007 and I have NEVER touched the WC system and that machine runs at 100% load 24/7/365

I am in the midst of building a WC dual X5470 Harpertown on a SkullTrail Mb and guess what I'm using for water blocks? ApogeeGT's.
I'd love to do the new GTZ's but I had one ApogeeGT and the smart money play was to just get another. $40.00 spent vs $140.00

[fart_plume]

Lol, you high dollar guys, I'm using a modded THERMAL TAKE block!!!Why because it was a gift and it works, not the best but it works.................

[BlueAqua]

Along with Movieman's comments. I will add this people come here to get advice. instead of telling some to buy different parts than they already have(some people just don't have the money to drop on more parts) Help them resolve the issues that they are having.

Exactly!!! The same water cooling setup is not exactly the same for everyone and everyone needs to acknowledge that. We need to be more supportive and helpful. It's all just a frame of mind.

[Gir92]

I think a large part of the problem is people recommending parts that THEY like and that they think are the best. When someone is asking for advice, you need to take a step back and consider what is best for their situation, not yours.

Another issue that really ticks me off is the fanoyism. There is such thing as brand loyalty that is not fanboyism. For example, I have a brand loyalty to swiftech because I own many of their products and they have never failed on me. But if someone asks for a list of parts, I will tell them in a heart beat if they need to go with a PA or BI GTX rad.

The fact that if EK or Bitspower (sorry to pick on names, but I need to make a point) makes a mistake, then they are praised for coming out and admitting it. However, if Swiftech or DangerDen make a mistake, then God help them. You know that they will be slaughtered by the parts of the XS masses that love to join on bandwagons. You can be loyal to a brand but still keep it civil and just. Just because you like one brand over another doesn't give you the right to blindly beat down the company you don't like.

[[XC] Hicks121]

Good to see this Movieman. It was getting out of control.

[Movieman]

I think a large part of the problem is people recommending parts that THEY like and that they think are the best. When someone is asking for advice, you need to take a step back and consider what is best for their situation, not yours.

Another issue that really ticks me off is the fanoyism. There is such thing as brand loyalty that is not fanboyism. For example, I have a brand loyalty to swiftech because I own many of their products and they have never failed on me. But if someone asks for a list of parts, I will tell them in a heart beat if they need to go with a PA or BI GTX rad.

The fact that if EK or Bitspower (sorry to pick on names, but I need to make a point) makes a mistake, then they are praised for coming out and admitting it. However, if Swiftech or DangerDen make a mistake, then God help them. You know that they will be slaughtered by the parts of the XS masses that love to join on bandwagons. You can be loyal to a brand but still keep it civil and just. Just because you like one brand over another doesn't give you the right to blindly beat down the company you don't like.

Very well said!:up:
Here's my overall take;
With the exception of the Aluminum Koolance and others that use Aluminum, I see most of the water blocks as pretty damned close.. Yea, some are a shade better than others but if you buy one of the top ones odds are you'll be happy.
Then the Rads, never owned a Thermochill rad but enough people that I know and respect do praise them so they must be good.
I have a ST MCR320 that handles 2 HOT clovertowns and has done it well for a year so thats also good in my opinion.
A lot of the issues are based on looks and looks are subjective just like what you like in music.
To me if it works in the "good" range, is easy to install and most important, lasts, then it's a good investment.
Then you look at manufacturer support.
Add all the factors up and you can make good decisions.

[IanY]

To advance the discussion, it should be extended to opinions. There are opinions, and where the subject matter is necessarily subjective, there are no uniformly correct answers.

There isn't a single piece of equipment that is uniformly the best for everyone. The same goes for methodologies and practices. Nobody should be compelled to emulate anyone else, regardless of who that someone else is.

Water cooling is a simple science, and I like to believe that any half brained nitwit can accomplish it. Regardless of the level of one's experience or prior accomplishment, an opinion is just an opinion. Nobody owns the Tablets on the Temple Mount.

[IanY]

lol @ the rrr shot.............. FTW!!!

That is blatantly unfair and out of character! Considering that this thread addresses a particular subject matter, it should be incumbent on you not to practice what you preach against.

[Movieman]

To advance the discussion, it should be extended to opinions. There are opinions, and where the subject matter is necessarily subjective, there are no uniformly correct answers.

There isn't a single piece of equipment that is uniformly the best for everyone. The same goes for methodologies and practices. Nobody should be compelled to emulate anyone else, regardless of who that someone else is.

Water cooling is a simple science, and I like to believe that any half brained nitwit can accomplish it. Regardless of the level of one's experience or prior accomplishment, an opinion is just an opinion. Nobody owns the Tablets on the Temple Mount.
Well said and if I could do it anyone can. All I did was read here, ask questions on the order of the loop and then read the manual that came with the kit..

That is blatantly unfair and out of character! Considering that this thread addresses a particular subject matter, it should be incumbent on you not to practice what you preach against.

Agreed and I just deleted the post and in recognition that he's new here I let it slide.
There is no need of anyone to bash anyone and what happened yesterday is over and done.
If he makes another post like that his next post at XS will be in 2009..:up:

[AndrewZorn]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen Marci and Maxx(x?)Racer in a while.

[Movieman]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen Marci and Maxx(x?)Racer in a while.

I think, not know, that Maxx's life just got busier.
maybe work or a new GF.
As to Marci, he isn't with TH any more and that may explain it.

[gillbot]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used. I will never recommend an EK because I'm too cheap to run one myself. I will point them to threads that shows others' experiences but I always add my $0.02 about my beloved Apogee GT. I usually recommend the Apogee GT for two reasons:
1) It can be found in the FS/FT section for $25 shipped or less used,
2) I have abused mine and it takes everything I throw at it, so it's a proven performer in my eyes.

It's hard to beat that $ per C performance, though as soon as I get my D-Tek Fuzion v1 mounted and tested, we'll see as the price on those is falling as well.

[fart_plume]

One of the things I have noticed is the constant bashing of the use of aluminum in a loop. Due to galvanic corrosion and such. There are ways to control this, but that aspect seems to be completely ignored or bashed. I believe a proper thing to do is to explorer effective means of controling corrosion.

I've been researching this and I will be writing a paper on it. So far i have found some forms of corrosion can be corrected with sacrifical anodes, but this can lead to another form of corrosion. In this light I'll be working toward methods of controling corrosion for the various mixed metal loops.

[Ashraf]

This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc. :shrug:

David, please consider closing this thread.

[Movieman]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used. I will never recommend an EK because I'm too cheap to run one myself. I will point them to threads that shows others' experiences but I always add my $0.02 about my beloved Apogee GT. I usually recommend the Apogee GT for two reasons:
1) It can be found in the FS/FT section for $25 shipped or less used,
2) I have abused mine and it takes everything I throw at it, so it's a proven performer in my eyes.

It's hard to beat that $ per C performance, though as soon as I get my D-Tek Fuzion v1 mounted and tested, we'll see as the price on those is falling as well.

Funny one; I bought some WC parts from one of the guys here and I had an option to take one ApogeeGT or a pair of Fuzion v1's..
I had one apogeeGT and didn't want to rape the guy as he was giving me a very fair deal so I passed on the fuzions and took the one apogeeGT
The fuzions look a little prettier and might be 1-2C better but I'm happy and i'll shine all that chrome and make them beauuuuutiful!:rofl:

[DarthBeavis]

This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc. :shrug:

David, please consider closing this thread.

you r a mod, if the thread is out of order close it. You are telling him he is wrong to discuss this? MM is the mod who convinced me to ease off and change directions. If you had continued I would have either been banned or quit posting here.

[D-Cyph3r]

Soooo, does this mean we cant grill Thermaltake kits anymore?









;)

[fart_plume]

Soooo, does this mean we cant grill Thermaltake kits anymore?









;)


No it means use your brain and try to help them make it work if they can't afford anything else.

[RickCain]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used.

This attitude should be adhered to by everyone. Opinions should be based on experience and not by someone sitting behind a keyboard with an agenda.

I look forward to a much more positive water cooling sub forum.

[BlueAqua]

Another opinion of others opinions.... This is a perfect example of what starts the battles here. The "Greater than thou" attitude...

It's not really about that. It's about raising the standards of XS. Please adhere to the new higher standards. :welcome:

[Omastar]

This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc. :shrug:

David, please consider closing this thread.

As far as I know, Dave supersedes you in moderator land, so it's his choice. Fingers do not need to be pointed here. Dave was simply posting an example of what the bad blood in this forum has brought about.

[Omastar]

Another opinion of others opinions.... This is a perfect example of what starts the battles here. The "Greater than thou" attitude...

What does that have to do with a holier than thou attitude? He was simply pointing out that empirical data holds more water than superfluous personal preference. :shrug:

[fart_plume]

See, I think that's where the problem is, and a good example. I can't help or recommend something I don't do, or haven't used. I wouldn't use mixed metals in a loop regardless of what kind of additive someoone came up with. I wouldn't risk recommending something like that to someone, or advising them on how to use it.

I believe a lot of us are the same way here on XS. But for every one of us that don't use mixed metals or additives, there's one's who do. We debate our side of the coin, and they debate theirs, and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as we act half way decent about it.

I think the same can be said for a lot of discussions we have here at XS. It's the civility and ethics we all need to work on around here more than the content or basis of our debates IMO.

andyc

I'm not saying it a good unit, just that a particulat user may have been given the unit , not have the funds for something better, or may just want to use it as a learning experience. So in that light letting them know what can be done within their limitations, the units limitations to get to perform as well as it can. What to look for to catch a potential failure.

[b@llz0r]

its an interesting social mix here in the XS LC section with a wide range of ages and races (not so many chicks th :)). With such diversity you are bound to have the occasional confrontation / misunderstanding...

I think the adults in this forum need to leed by example. Some of the most childish behaviour displayed in this section comes from people who must be over 30!

I have taken a less active role in this forum lately due to the bickering but i still think its the number 1 place for good advice and a source of great ideas.

[Omastar]

Here is how it starts...:shrug:

How? Your opinions are just that: yours. It's fine to tell someone you love your CPU block manufactured by Company X, but it's another thing to have blinders on when it comes to objective performance. And what if they don't want to spend a certain amount on the top block? You're responsible to scale it down and examine price to performance if you really want to help them. And, of course, by 'you' I mean 'everyone'.

[Ashraf]

you r a mod, if the thread is out of order close it. You are telling him he is wrong to discuss this? MM is the mod who convinced me to ease off and change directions. If you had continued I would have either been banned or quit posting here.


As far as I know, Dave supersedes you in moderator land, so it's his choice. Fingers do not need to be pointed here. Dave was simply posting an example of what the bad blood in this forum has brought about.

Um, "This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc." wasn't even toward to Movieman.

I will not close this thread without his permission. Movieman is a moderator and the creator of this thread. I am not telling him what to do, but a suggestion to close this thread. We are team. :up:


Some of the most childish behaviour displayed in this section comes from people who must be over 30!

I concur. :(

[DarthBeavis]

Shessh . . .maybe Ashraf was right in that he saw what was coming . . .come on guys. If you are going to post here post about how to improve with CONSTRUCTIVE ideas and add value. Hopefully MM will clean it up and keep in on track as it is doing some good.

[DarthBeavis]

We are team. :up:

LOL . . .I figured it out . . .good cop, bad cop routine . . .LOL. You two pulled one over on me . . .:up: I still think that infraction is totally unwarranted but whatever . . .only a freaking forum now isn't it. . .and it if makes it all better here then why not.

[fart_plume]

I agree with Darth, this thread is for improving WC'ing section, not about anything else.

[DarthBeavis]

I think the mods should start giving us titles as a short-term punishment ;) They do that over at PDXLAN forums and it really works . . .can also give out kudos that way . . .

[fart_plume]

Where that might work at other forums , I don't rteally think that would be along the lines of Professionalism that the forum owner wants.(Not meaning to speak out of turn Fugger)

[fart_plume]

ok, dubtown here's the thing, you can say what you need to say but finding an appropriate way to say it is the key to keep from getting banned. You don't have to pull punches but keep it civil. The personal attack on RRR is uncalled for and you'll get hammered for it. It is against the rules. So please edit before you get in trouble.

[fart_plume]

Exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you Andy.

Yes I'm am using a TT block, that modded. I know it's holding me back from top clocks on my qx, but I'm learning from it. i do have some Swifttech v1's in the planning and I'll be able to show the difference in performance in an empirical fashion.

One advantage of TT parts are they are cheap and if you mess them up modding them it's no big loss, just move on to the next one............

[Movieman]

This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc. :shrug:

David, please consider closing this thread.
I understand but there's a lot that needs to come out and get off of everyones chest.

As far as I know, Dave supersedes you in moderator land, so it's his choice. Fingers do not need to be pointed here. Dave was simply posting an example of what the bad blood in this forum has brought about.
Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.

Im sure ill get banned but its worth it

your such a :banana::banana::banana::banana:in hypocrit dude... and its pretty clear the private message being discussed had you in mind...

im sorry... guess ill see you all in 09 :wave:

I said it loud and clear and then even told you in PM but you didn't listen.
banned till 1-21-09

[DarthBeavis]

[QUOTE=Movieman;3305796]Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.
QUOTE]

Is your name Friday? Do you carry a gun ;)


***plays Dragnet theme music in the backround

[Movieman]

Gentlemen;
I just removed some posts.
Some just because they quoted others that needed to be removed so don't read anything into it that isn't there.

The whole point of this thread orginally was to say that things have to change here.
That people have to use a little common sense and reason in their responses and also that anyone that works for any company and then slyly badmouths another company in the attempt to increase sales is a POS in my opinion and will be removed.
Anyone even thought to be doing so will be removed.
We will also deal with one another with respect and courtesy.
You don't have to agree with everyone but don't attack the man, attack his arguement. I have been saying that one line over and over for almost a year yet sometimes I think people close their ears.
Do I make myself clear on these points?
Lets take this place back to what it used to be.
A place where friends could come together and discuss water cooling and learn from one another.
Leave the frigging ego's home and enter here as friends or simply stay out of this section. It is that simple.

[QUOTE=Movieman;3305796]Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.
QUOTE]

Is your name Friday? Do you carry a gun ;)


***plays Dragnet theme music in the backround

Cute, but I am not that complex.
I look right down the middle and try to calm excitable people and issues.
When I can't do it nicely I do it the hard way.
I hate, I repeat, I hate having to ban anyone but sometimes it is all that a person will listen to.
Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

[StAndrew]

I just want to put in a few words (still a new user so don’t know whats going on… LOUD NOISES…): Anyways, Ive been very active in the SLI Forums Watercooling and have seen lots of horrible posting. Fanboism is childish! Period. People have to realize that their posting can directly affect someone’s next purchase and be responsible enough to give help in an accurate and professional manner. Its a responsibility held by each forum go'er to provide the most accurate info, regardless of personal preferences!
Also things ive seen are ppl posting incorrect numbers, exaggerations, etc... EX: a user claiming they run their quad core and Tri SLI off a Zalman Reserator, influencing a user I know well to purchase one, and become very miserable when he discovered his GPU's overheating and comp shutting down when gamming. If you dont know what you are talking about, dont make bs up to sound sophisticated and fit in. Eat some humble friken pie!

[systemviper]

I understand but there's a lot that needs to come out and get off of everyones chest.


:clap:


I totally agree, If this was just something to read, then it's just a lecture and not a lot will come from it.

But if it is to really change, then we need to talk about it and own it, take responsibility for it and be part of the solution.

The discussion will actually bring out a lot of the frustration, and help to build some new bonds and heal some friendships gone bad. You don't know how many responses i have written, posted, then deleted just because i felt i was being to arrogant or not giving someone the respect that I want myself.

I say post your opinions, within reason, get it off your chest, and lets all move forward with MM and XS to keep it the most experienced source of info on the net :up:

[Movieman]

Lets get back to making Xtreme Systems ...... XTREME !!!!! :up:

All that needs to happen is for the people here to say this to themselves:
"These are people here that I come to share my experiences with as friends.
I come here to teach and to learn in an atmosphere of friendship"

Now if anyone here thinks I'm someone living in a world with a rose colored sky your wrong.
aged 56, 35 years of selling, and read that as dealing with people. All types.
Check the ego at the door and the rest will happen all by itself.

[Waterlogged]

Gentlemen;
I just removed some posts.
Some just because they quoted others that needed to be removed so don't read anything into it that isn't there.

The whole point of this thread orginally was to say that things have to change here.
That people have to use a little common sense and reason in their responses and also that anyone that works for any company and then slyly badmouths another company in the attempt to increase sales is a POS in my opinion and will be removed.
Anyone even thought to be doing so will be removed.
We will also deal with one another with respect and courtesy.
You don't have to agree with everyone but don't attack the man, attack his arguement. I have been saying that one line over and over for almost a year yet sometimes I think people close their ears.
Do I make myself clear on these points?
Lets take this place back to what it used to be.
A place where friends could come together and discuss water cooling and learn from one another.
Leave the frigging ego's home and enter here as friends or simply stay out of this section. It is that simple.


Cute, but I am not that complex.
I look right down the middle and try to calm excitable people and issues.
When I can't do it nicely I do it the hard way.
I hate, I repeat, I hate having to ban anyone but sometimes it is all that a person will listen to.
Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further ;)

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.:shakes:
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon. :yepp:

[fart_plume]

I don't agree at all. Reason? Because i was able to make a point and my friend Andy understood what I was trying to say and that's what this thread is about, getting people to realize that some times you have to stand in someone else's shoes to help.

[emuexport]

Thanks for making this post movieman. I think it is a move back in the right direction having been a member for a couple of months now I saw it heading more and more in the wrong direction but I chose to ignore it and skim the majority of posts in some threads. Hopefully we can all get what we need out of this forum which in my mind is sharing of unbiased opinions and information (where applicable).

Needless to say I have really enjoyed my time on the forums and am learning more about WC all the time! Hopefully I can help others out as i learn more.

emu

[Movieman]

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further ;)

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.:shakes:
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon. :yepp:

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

[Waterlogged]

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

I did not fight it then or say anything until now because I knew the admin team here wouldn't understand but, I was attacking what was said....how is that attacking the man? The key word in what I said there was "said" but if you guys choose not to see it that way, what the hell can I do about it?.....Nothing, that's what.

[Ashraf]

I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic.

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision. :up:

[CyberDruid]

I have been around this Forum for longer than I was a member and I was still around longer after joining before I felt comfortable posting in the Liquid Cooling Forum. If you want to see a classic XS Welcome to a "new guy" trying to share an Xtreme project take a look at my Thread about my "Monolith" cooler. I don't have to name names..the posts are all there to speak for themselves. It was far from a friendly experience. I felt harangued by a couple of the regulars here over the stupidest stuff...using pipe paste on an O-ring fitting, and not getting my nomenclature perfectly correct when identifying the types of fittings I was using.

Seriously...if it was not for the fact that I had already built DOZENS of liquid cooled systems professionally by that time I might have just deleted the thread and moved on...but since I have confidence in myself I was able to confront my Trolls and prove without a doubt that I am one of the most Xtreme Watercooling Fanatics on this Forum.

It irks me no end to see relative newcomers trying to better rank themselves in some sort of perverse pecking order...they form alliances and hold grudges and do battle as if this were a constructive and meaningful addition to the Liquid Cooling Forum.

I see innovators being ranked lower than replicators and I see a lot of snippy exchanges.

I see a lot of "shadow" promotion/badmouthing going on (which I am glad Movieman recognizes and despises) and it's setting a poor tone for anyone that is not part of some weird faction here.

If it were not for my incredibly durable ego I would have given up even posting my builds here...but over time the peck-ers stopped trying to peck me into some rank in their file and I was able to enjoy a certain liberty to show off my work here without the usual banal and anal replies from the usual suspects.

I did not come here thinking I knew anything. I spent a good year researching the field, reading the posts by the best of the best (who have left BTW) and deciding that this odd hobby was exactly what I like to do. It was not like coming into some friendly open arms let me tell you...but the knowledge I gained was worth the intimidation of not understanding half of the abstruse mathematics.

That all has changed...oh it's the same bristly environment of talking heads...problem is the heads are simply regurgitating what they think they know. These Talking Heads are not the innovators, the testers, the developers, the designers...these talking heads are CONSUMERS whinging about their BRANDS. So what is the trade off for putting up with their attitudes? Is there some great knowledge to be had? I think not...it's more like watching an insipid soap opera.

What would bring back some juice here is to STFU and actually DO something. Show us something you've learned by experimentation...by trial and error...by making an error and correcting it...anything would be better than hearing the same crap over and over.

When the innovator is once again the focus of our interest the balance will be regained.

Thanks a lot MovieMan. I really think you have your heart in the right place...which is more than I can say for some of the people that call this place their home.

[fart_plume]

I'm going to say this once cutless the specail olympics comment will get you banned. Edit it for your own sake.

[Waterlogged]

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision. :up:

A simple locking would have sufficed...no?

[DarthBeavis]

Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Not sure if my sponsor is going to send me to CES . . .still trying to figure out a way to go . . .

as far a getting interesting . . .I am a lover not a fighter . . .sorta ;) I do test for my 2nd DD Black Belt decided in Nov ;) Jager sounds good . . .

[Ashraf]

A simple locking would have sufficed...no?

That is what we would do, but no. There was a reason to remove it from public. :)

[Waterlogged]

That is what we would do, but no. There was a reason to remove it from public. :)

Care to PM this to me? I may just agree with it.

[HotGore]

There are three main reasons why this has spread to this point.

1) We have very little data, lots is discounted on testing methodology. This means that idiots can get away recommending stupid crap, and no one can prove them wrong. This has to change, but people like Martinm and others do not have the time or resources to do up to quick reviews.

2) We are recommending loops to beginners that are too complex. Doing a dual loop for some first timers can be very overwhelming.

3) 3c difference is not worth arguing over. Hell people fight about fans.

[Waterlogged]

I have been around this Forum for longer than I was a member and I was still around longer after joining before I felt comfortable posting in the Liquid Cooling Forum. If you want to see a classic XS Welcome to a "new guy" trying to share an Xtreme project take a look at my Thread about my "Monolith" cooler. I don't have to name names..the posts are all there to speak for themselves. It was far from a friendly experience. I felt harangued by a couple of the regulars here over the stupidest stuff...using pipe paste on an O-ring fitting, and not getting my nomenclature perfectly correct when identifying the types of fittings I was using.

<snip>



Geez CD, you still sore over that? I'd thought we had moved on and gotten sort of friendly since then? :shrug: I still maintain what I said in post #19 of that topic, there was no intended malice on my part, I'm sorry you perceived it that way.

[Freaky Freezer]

initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.

That is a variation of the line from Billy Madison. It's the part when the moderator abuses Adam Sandler after he tries to BS his way through a question. Just thought I would point that out for all your trivia fans.

And now more importantly, I implore everyone to remember that it can always be worse, this forum could be like EOCF. Now there is a true collection of @#$%&bags amongst poor innocent kids trying to learn something and instead having nearly every member who has 1000+ posts taking turns verbally trampling them. At least on this site, three-quarters, if not more of the senior members are very friendly and helpful. At the end of the day, I have 2 watercooled computers that run perfectly and there will be more in the future, all thanks to this forum.

[Omastar]

Remember what the name of the forum is XTREME SYSTEMS. XTREME SYSTEMS. It's not called Run-of-Mill Systems, rather XTREME SYTEMS. The name says it all...:up:

We get it.

[Sadasius]

I have mentioned my issues on another thread about thread destroyers who enlighten the newer members on how their thread will not work or is not useful. I thought it was pretty sad especially when they were trying to involve themselves just to get hassled. There is a lot of very bad ego pillaging in these WC forums and it does get tiring. I would also like to make a suggestion about the "Water Cooled Case Gallery". Can't we just make it pics only and comments can be reserved for PM's. I hate scrolling through so many posts that have no real content for the thread other then praise for some people rigs which is not a bad thing but I go to that thread to see the rigs, not the endless posts of ego nurturing that I think is enabling the bad behavior here.

I am here to learn and perhaps to help out the odd fellow if I happen to know something or can give some ideas. It is hard to be Xtreme when you have to fight through so many ego's on here because you have to sift through what is useful and what is just banter, praise, fights, bull headedness, experienced WC God's who kill any thread they see fit, Fanboism FTW comments etc. Needless to say I do a lot of scrolling without even reading and that just sucks because I may scroll over something that was important and should have been read. I feel for the new users the most who come in here thinking this is all handled professionally with the experienced users. Sadly this is not the case and new members opinions, ideas and perceptions have to be thrown in the garbage because they 'have' to adapt to the thinking, perceptions of the experienced and also have to buy their gear and be emulated to be accepted as a genuine Xtreme WC'er. You nailed it on the head Movieman when you said ego's need to be checked at the door.

Also for the love of God, can't we just shoot posters who use FTW comments? If my math is correct they are wearing down my scroll wheel needlessly an extra 15% per year in these forums. :slash:

[[XC] riptide]

^^^ hahah.

Great Post Dave. I must say I'm smiling broadly at this thread. You guys are great. :up:

[twwen2]

Wow!

I go away for one weekend and look what i missed.:eek:
I feel like the kid at school who had a day off and missed the once-in-a year brawl in the canteen! :rofl:
I agree with MovieMan, things had gotten to the point where something needed to be done.

I hope we all take a step back and think about why we're here and how we treat each other.

Long live XS, the best and most proffessional forum in the whole wide world! :D

[Shocker003]

Good morning to all members that have choosen to wake up and am happy the Modds are stepping in. I prefer keeping my mouth shut than than dishing out wrong infos to someone that really needs help. We are like a family and babies get born everyday. Why should most of the old members kill off the new babies, by giving them wrong infos and he ends up wasting his money. I joined XS to learn how to watercool my rig. Most blocks i bought where painted black (NB&SB blocks), i still have them in my loop and woun´t be changing them, as they get the job done. There are people that can upgrade or downgrade because they have the money or got these parts for free. Please before you start posting figures make sure your new toy has been in service for at least 3 months. Their are people out there that will buy it due to the infos you left behind and after some weeks, they end up rust, leaks, failure etc. Thou shall not mix metal (alu) but if nickel plated and it comes from this company, it´s ok (Koolat). Oh guys my temps are high, what should i do? Change your pump(got the pump changed and my temp got pretty bad) actually happened to me. Well we learn from our mistakes and we should learn to respect everyone view or ideas. No one is all knowing, even if you have been watercooling for 50 years.

[Xilikon]

Good move Dave, I'm also getting sick of useless shills posting crap and having people dissing parts because it's not Xtreme... As may people said, not everyone have money growing on trees so try to make a recommendation within a reasonable frame set by the OP. Also, I rarely recommend anything I didn't experiment myself unless that part got lots of positive experience and recommendations from the experts.

However, we should also know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but attacking is frowned up. If you have a problem with a opinion, either ignore it or counter it with valid facts, not bashing.

[Bojamijams]

I'm a newcomer so I was never a member when Cathar, Maxx and others were regulars here. Though from the posts I read I agree we lost knowledable people, I don't feel like the 'new' LQ forums are as bad as the original PM writer made it out to be. Yes its a little annoying when people are recommending products they haven't even used themselves in a running loop yet, but its still somebodies 'opinion' that is being posted here. Take it as that and not so personal.

As for why people are so against aluminum and koolance, I mean really, we're XTREME systems. Why should we tolerate crap components that are shown time and time and time again to cause corrosion and problems? Seen Naekuh's picture of koolance caps?

Yes aluminum can be 'controlled' if such and such a substance is purchased, but why go through all that hassle when that substance will cause OTHER problems (clouding, clogging, 'strange deposits'). IF distilled water is the ultimate best, why should XS not recommend it? If distilled+nuke is the next best, why should we not recommend it?

If you want to buy crap like koolance and want to mix aluminum and copper, and want to use dies and nuke together and mix pentosin and shake and bake and all this other crap, just go ahead and do it and deal with the issues. If you come here to ask for opinions of some 'experts' (I am not calling myself one btw, just listing others like Naekuh, Martin, Andy, IanY, iandh, etc.) then send them a PM directly. They'll either answer you or won't. If you want an opinion of the community, start a thread. But then if people make fun of you for wanting to use a stupid combo stuff, take it in stride that your idea was a bad one, be glad that you found out before you tried it yourself and spend money, and learn about what people are saying in the thread.

A single post saying "EK FTW" is hardly enough to cry about.

[IanY]

If you come here to ask for opinions of some 'experts' (I am not calling myself one btw, just listing others like Naekuh, Martin, Andy, IanY, iandh, etc.) then send them a PM directly. They'll either answer you or won't.


Its extremely flattering, but please don't list me in that crowd. I have too much respect for the compatriots to taint their individual and collective reputations lol :rofl:

All PMs always answered here. There are no dumb questions. All are good questions. :up: Opinions handed out, whether solicited or not :ROTF:

[Movieman]

Good move Dave, I'm also getting sick of useless shills posting crap and having people dissing parts because it's not Xtreme... As may people said, not everyone have money growing on trees so try to make a recommendation within a reasonable frame set by the OP. Also, I rarely recommend anything I didn't experiment myself unless that part got lots of positive experience and recommendations from the experts.

However, we should also know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but attacking is frowned up. If you have a problem with a opinion, either ignore it or counter it with valid facts, not bashing.

EXACTLY!:up:
I don't comment on every post I see even though my post count may look like I do.:D
many times I see someone headed the wrong direction and just send them a PM of "hey, saw your post, you might want to try this."
So many ways here to communicate and be helpful IF you want to.
If you see a troll, report the post and let us deal with him, don't get into a back and forth as thats what trolls want. They get off on busting your balls and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them.
THAT busts their balls bigtime and frustrates them.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that this section and all of Xs should be and can be a place to come and learn with friends.
I'm just like you guys, I come here, I look at the builds and stare in wonder at the skills of people like Cyberdruid and many others.
I look at DarthBeavis creations and just shake my head at the skill and time involved
I read Martin's tests and mentally thank him for the work he's done.
I waited and watched Mcoffey's test on the ST GTZ just like you guys did.
I learn from Niksub's comments and add it all up.
The water cooling section isn't just one or two people, it is the combined knowledge that makes it and the people involved.
Yes, we miss people like Marci,Cathar and Maxxracer but people do change jobs and also their lives change.
I talked to Maxx last night. His life has changed and I think it's of a cute female persuation that's mostly to blame.:rofl:
I'm happy for him and I'm sure at some point he'll be back.
The whole thing is to step back and use this area for what it's intended to be.
A place to show your work, ask questions and also to answer questions for others.
The n00b guy here today will be the old pro next year answering the questions then BUT only if that new guy is made to feel welcome.
I think back on my first post in this section asking questions and the good help I received. I met some great people here in Cyberdruid,Sigfever,123bob and I've lately come to know mcoffey. Very good guy and we're lucky to have him here. There are more and I'm sure I'll get to know them over time but the key is your attitude when you come here.
Extend a hand of friendship and generally you get one back.
Think on this and if you incorporate this thinking into your actions here your experience will be much better.

[fart_plume]

Bojamijams, The point which has been made earlier in the thread that people need to put themselves in the other person's shoes. People who have the lower performing parts may not have ready cash available to spend on more parts, so it's not a matter of "tolerating" these parts but helping a fellow WC'ing enthusiast with getting the most they can with in their means.

[Xilikon]

Yes, we all started as noobs, me included. I do remember my first time here in july 2007 asking questions and trying to find answers. Now that I experienced WC and modding (3 loops across 2 computers under my belt now), I'm ready to help the next guy to setup a loop based on his needs.

Also, there's something we should keep in mind : Someone's else build is not yours so don't use it as a extension of your own e-peen. Need to have somethings you are proud to show off ? Build it yourself or STFU.

fart_plume : I do agree with you that if someone already have the components (either a hands-me-down or bought very cheap), we should help take the best of what he got. However, if the user didn't have those parts and entertain the idea of picking some components we know is bad, it's our duty to steer him from buying this and offer better alternatives.

People may use the aluminium thing as a example of what to do or not to do but please don't argue here since it's not the right place to get off-topic.

[Lagaaja]

Altough I'm fairly new in XS, even I have noticed most of the stuff mentioned in this topic. And I gotta say, some of these fanbois and flamers have posted in this thread too, it's like they don't even recognise themselves.

Indeed this forum is the #1 place for me too to seek out news on the watercooling scene, and I surely wish this stays #1. Together we shall stand!

[DarthBeavis]

Altough I'm fairly new in XS, even I have noticed most of the stuff mentioned in this topic. And I gotta say, some of these fanbois and flamers have posted in this thread too, it's like they don't even recognise themselves.

Indeed this forum is the #1 place for me too to seek out news on the watercooling scene, and I surely wish this stays #1. Together we shall stand!
Like I said . . .add titles.

You can add mine mods:
Danger Den Fan Boi

There . . .done. I personally don't care ;) :up: Anyone who has been here a year or more knows when I first came here you could not mention Danger Den without flames left and right. Now Danger Den is widely accepted (even though you will still see EK FTW posts in DD threads but at least you do not see the hardcore hating that you did . . .and am I talking some respected folks here did that crap but obviously decided to take a second look and became better for it . . .or they just keep quiet . .either way they are being very professional about it which is what the rest of us should strive for).

[gillbot]

Funny one; I bought some WC parts from one of the guys here and I had an option to take one ApogeeGT or a pair of Fuzion v1's..
I had one apogeeGT and didn't want to rape the guy as he was giving me a very fair deal so I passed on the fuzions and took the one apogeeGT
The fuzions look a little prettier and might be 1-2C better but I'm happy and i'll shine all that chrome and make them beauuuuutiful!:rofl:

Only reason I got the D-Tek was beacuse of the price. I was actually looking for another Apogee GT and found this Fuzion for less than most of the Apogee GT's I could find FS so I thought i'd try it.

[gillbot]

I disagree with two of your three points, let me expand...

#2) I'll agree on to an extent. When the "first timers" ask for advice on their "new" quasi-parallel / quasi-serial loop ideas, then you are doing them a disservice by not pointing out the virtues of two loops. This is WATERCOOLING not brain surgery, it's not that complicated. Heck my 9 year old understands it. Now recommending a 4 loop set-up, with multiple rads and multiple pumps in a single loop, is probably not kosher for the beginner.

#3) 3c gain is almost worth considering selling a kidney for some here at XS...:shocked: Fans are also hallowed ground at XS... SanAce's, the holiest of holy's.

Remember what the name of the forum is XTREME SYSTEMS. XTREME SYSTEMS. It's not called Run-of-Mill Systems, rather XTREME SYTEMS. The name says it all...:up:

SOME here may be die hard over 3C, I personally am not. If I see a block (such as the great Dtek v2/GTZ debate) that performs a mere 2-3C better than another, I'm not going to dismount and sell my current block then shell out $$ for a mere 2-3C gain. To me, anything within a C or two difference is well within the margin of error in testing and/or mounting.

Sure, we have a hardcore group that has methods in place to reduce these errors in their measurements but this isn't rocket science and i'm sure they are not using NASA grade measuring hardware because it just isn't THAT important.

My only thought is, why try and force a GTZ upgrade onto a new watercooler when he may not mount it properly to begin with. His temps may come out to be the same after changing over. To me, this is a disservice to him as he wasted his time and money over such a small potential gain, only for that gain not to be realized.

[DarthBeavis]

Well, after all the experience here . . .I am thinking about starting my own line of products. You all have seen my first prototype but here it is again for the uninitiated . . .and I am looking for fan bois to sign up:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/301/thermaltakeng5.jpg

the block keeps the CPU at a steady -150 C with NO condensation and it has freeze bug protection built in so your proc will always work. It also uses polymemetic overclocking alloy so it automatically overclocks your cpu at a minimum of 6 ghz and increases it in steps until it reaches the maximum oc which is always stable. I am including 1 million free WOW gold with the first 100 orders . . .

[DarthBeavis]

Maybe "Danger Den Fan Boi who's sponsered by Danger Den" would be a more apt description. At least then, everyone would have a perspective on where you're coming from. Maybe you could put all your sponserships and vendor affiliations for your highly publizized builds in your sig?

Maybe even the reviewers or testers could do the same for any parts recieved from a vendor worth over 100.00 USD if they're kept fo their own use.

Not a bash, just a thought as a way to keep things clean here on the forum.

andyc
the sponsorship list would be darned long . . . I totally agree with people knowing where you are coming from . . .but what will people see when they see Koolance and Danger Den in my sig, then they see I have done builds with EK and Swiftech. Won't they be confused? ;)

[DarthBeavis]

SOME here may be die hard over 3C, I personally am not. If I see a block (such as the great Dtek v2/GTZ debate) that performs a mere 2-3C better than another, I'm not going to dismount and sell my current block then shell out $$ for a mere 2-3C gain. To me, anything within a C or two difference is well within the margin of error in testing and/or mounting.

Sure, we have a hardcore group that has methods in place to reduce these errors in their measurements but this isn't rocket science and i'm sure they are not using NASA grade measuring hardware because it just isn't THAT important.

My only thought is, why try and force a GTZ upgrade onto a new watercooler when he may not mount it properly to begin with. His temps may come out to be the same after changing over. To me, this is a disservice to him as he wasted his time and money over such a small potential gain, only for that gain not to be realized.

Said it before, say it again (and Marci jumped me for stating this but I still stand by it): If you care THAT much about a 3c delta . . .take the next step and head over to the Pelt or phase change forums. The best you will get here is ambient.

[DarthBeavis]

I was thinking current major sponsers. The one's your primarily engaged with based on the level of sponsership. Like the top 4 or something.

We could all do the same if applicable. But, that doesn't give others the right to bash the sponsered party. Ask about the affiliation in a open forum yes, attack someone, no.

andyc

I would say list the sponsors per build for the last year or maybe two? It would be cool to see by build who helped and then link to a work log here so people can go check it out. You get a multi-faceted benefit . . .transparency and also you get to tie a person's work together so if I see one of your posts and want to know more about you I can just follow the details in links in your sig. It also encourages us to make worklogs. . .great idea Andy!!!!!!!!!
A standard format or template would be great for the sigs . . .

[sheriff_deadeye]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net. :)

[[XC] Hicks121]

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net. :)

QFT!! :up:

[DarthBeavis]

I think ultimately, if agreed upon by the mods, it should be them who decides the format and level of detail. Also, what punishment/bans levied is not adhered to after warnings on both sides.

Not tyring to turn the forum into a bureaucracy or anything, just a way to smooth the waters and retain the forums integrity in the near term.

Because we're losing new and old members over this type of thing, over all the in fighting it's caused, and that's the biggest shame of all. I consider this to be the best forum on WC'ing, that's why I only contribute here on XS.

I'd like to see it stay that way:up:

And I don't mean to single you out, or make you out as a lightning rod for the problem. It's far more reaching than any one single person. As a matter of fact, I respect your honesty about the sponderships and such. It's refreshing.

andyc

I stand by my method of helping people here so no problem (well, other than the little war with RRR). I challenge anyone to do a search of my posts and ten tell me I push any SINGLE water-cooling vendor ;) I can say this because I know what you will find. I normally list at least two to three makes (DD,EK, and then one of the others such as Swiftek or Koolance as of late). I do not personally recommend Dtek as I have none of their products but I do tell people that the Fusions are some of the most popular ones so they might take that into consideration. I recommend BI, TC, and Feser rads although I have clearly been the leader in questioning where TC is at the moment and about their future prospects.

We are BLESSED to have so many kick arse vendors to choose from with new ones coming onto the market (Feser, Bitspower to name a couple) and with the older ones really pushing the envelope (Ben at MM is just going insane with his cases . . . and Vincent at BP and Mario at Feser are tearing it up in the hizzle ma nizzles). If anything we should all be pulling together as they are pretty exciting times and we should be glad to have such a fun hobby to distract us from the rest of the world which is full of crap at the moment.

Hell, I am currently on another forum in the middle of fights with Republicans on one side and Democrats on the other and libertarian me in the middle getting fragged ;)

[DarthBeavis]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net. :)

We should all practice this mantra . . ."There is no right . . .only what is right for you" . . .I too often forget this and do not take into account things like limited means or using what one has . . .

[[XC] riptide]

^^^ *sigh* I miss the old Speak Freely days... ;)

[gillbot]

Said it before, say it again (and Marci jumped me for stating this but I still stand by it): If you care THAT much about a 3c delta . . .take the next step and head over to the Pelt or phase change forums. The best you will get here is ambient.

I agree, to me it's more about °C per $ spent than anything. All I know is my "ghetto" watercooler setup absolutely destroys my old air cooler. I have less in my watercooling setup than most people do in their TRUE heatsinks + fans.

I'n not the typical XS'er, I'm more budget minded than throw every $ at it for max °C drops. It has to be a serious gain for me to even consider it. With that said, i tend to err towards the cheap side when I make a recommendation to a 1st time watercooler. I've seen WAY too many people run off after dumping hundreds into a setup that is too complicated for them, then it not perform the way they hoped it would.

[TedShred]

It's sad to hear of someone bailing from XS for the reasons stated in the quoted PM. But, fwiw from a noobiest-of-noobs perspective, I think this forum is still the best there is (3DGuru is pretty awesome too). Personally, I'm amazed at the degree of courtesy I've been shown, even after posting something that I realized (too late... sigh) was completely idiotic. It's positively amazing how much I've learned here in the past 6 months. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't noticed the conflict on certain threads lately. But, as far as the ongoing health of the forum goes, I've also noticed an incredible amount of self-examinatio by a lot of forum members, including the guys that I really look up to. And that's hugely encouraging.

This forum rocks and, imo, will continue to do so because so many peeps genuinely care about it.

Excellent thread Dave.

edit: "self examination" didn't come out right - I meant not so much people examining themselves (tho it's part of it), but more an examination of the forum itself to ensure it meets certain standards.

[p8ntslinger676]

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum. Well done. Let's just let the WC wars die already.

aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation:()

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

[[XC] riptide]

aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation:()

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman. :D

[DarthBeavis]

riptide;3307247']Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman. :D

where do you get women?

[fart_plume]

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

[Xilikon]

where do you get women?

Thought you got a red one ??? :rofl:

[[XC] riptide]

where do you get women?

I get them shipped in from Ohio...

[[XC] riptide]

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

:fight:

[fart_plume]

i told you it was too easy today, and i had a low resistance to easy:rofl:

[[XC] riptide]

Thats West 'By Gawd' Virginia?

[NaeKuh]

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.

[Solidsnake666]

I haven't been on XS for that long myself, and although I have noticed a recent increase in the amount of flame wars and overall BS, I have to say it's still considerably less than any other forum I've ever frequented. My biggest gripe is with the fact that when I ask for help and information the plethora of uninformative one sentence answers I have to read through is quite a nuisance. Although quite often if I repeat my question I will finally get a real answer out of someone(most of the time in the end its the same group of people that gives me a good answer I can use). If I wanted to get a mindless fact less 'just buy this part because I say you should' answer I would go to Worst Buy or Microcenter and ask their employees :rolleyes:

I've learned to take every thing said here with a grain of salt as I do in the rest of my life. And when in doubt I demand evidence. There are people I've come to trust and just as equally posters I've learned are untrustworthy. I don't see any use in arguing to an excessive extent over what's right and wrong, but if you insist on it please give me the common courtesy either prove it or provide fact to prove me wrong. I understand that everyone is of different ages and race and upbringings, but I don't think the fact that there is a mix of both truthful and kind people here along with the dishonest rude, just as in real life can be denied. After all this forum is part of our lives so I doubt that can ever fully change (Unless maybe this becomes a cult where we're all supposed to drink the Pentosin Koolaid :p:).

I've learned a ton from this forum and give whatever back that I can. All I can say is I hope the forum and especially the water cooling section stays up and active so I can get my daily fix on geek stuff :D If there's ever anything I can do to help out on the forums in any way, shape, or form let me know. The water cooling section especially has given me more help in the past year than anything, and I'd love to be able to give something back. Other than that all I can do is continue learning and sharing my experiences with everyone as I've done up to this point. :up:

If I've said anything offensive or off topic I apologize but after reading the rest of this forum I had to interject my feelings. After all I do consider this a home.

[skinnee]

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.


In all due respect, and I mean that in all sincerity, that's EGO talking. Not a willngness to help out the forum or WC'ing community. It sounds like your itching for a fight, and all that's going to do is start a ruckass and get everyone stirred up. I say this because I've gone about it that way, and it caused more problems here than it solved. Sure, I get all puffed up thinking I showed them, but in reality all I did is stir up trouble and alienate people.

When a vendor slips up, we can point that out in a civil way without "opening a can of whoopass" on them and starting a fight. And I'm not talking about kissing anyone's ass either. I'm talking going about it in a civil way and stating the facts, or assumptions as the case may be at times, which encourages change, not alienating companies or people.

Look at the way Martin goes about bringing out the facts. He get's his point across fully, everyone get's it and I've yet to see him open a can of whoopass on anybody or companies.

Again, my 2 cents.

andyc

I have to agree with you Andy. NaeKuh, it may just be the way you put your thoughts into text, but is this the same manner in which you conduct yourself in your daily business environment? I am guilty of the same a while back, I admit. The server outage did me a lot of good.

When a vendor/manufacturer comes here to represent their brand/store they come with business in mind. Whether they come to show a soon to be released product or to deal with issues, they are representing a business. The least we can do is treat them with respect, simply point out the issues we (one or many XS users) have encountered and let them digest the situation. They are the one's running the business, we are their customers. I do not know of a single company that would listen to a customer or a feedback group that acts in the manner I have seen in recently. I don't care if we completely disagree with their business practices or not, you have to show them common decency and respect and if you can't...stay out of the thread. The only thing you do by jumping down their throat and making a big to do is show your true colors, and lose a lot of respect for XS from the company you are trying to deal with and many of the members here. Afterall, you being a member here, you are representing XS to that company.

All in all, I want to see more vendors/manufacturers here and participating in the community. We have far to many knowledgable, intelligent and enthusiastic people here willing to stand along side the vendors/manufacturers and further the LC industry. If we keep pushing them out by being ignorant and rude when they show up...they won't come back nor listen to our suggestions in the future.

Just my $0.02...

[Martinm210]

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

[Spawne32]

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.

[fart_plume]

Martinm210 that has too be the best post in the whole thread. Myself I can't let any product stay stock, I have to tinker with it till either it works like i think it should or I kill it beyond repair, it's just my nature....................

[gillbot]

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

[DarthBeavis]

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.

On what tests?

[Spawne32]

On what tests?

oh hell im not gona start digging up all the test threads but people do them all the time, and EK is renound for quality and customer satisfaction and support, just ask the people who own them. I dont know how harsh people were getting with this guy who left the forum over it but i know people are rough around the edges on this forum in general, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, its my favorite kind of atmosphere, and this wc section has always had valuable feedback and information and i still consider it the best for anyone looking for information on how to build their system. But you cant just expect to make one post and know everything you have to do research on your own and read what people are discussing.

[Movieman]

i dont run my mouth on any company unless i catch them slipping.

And believe me when i go off on a post on that company, i HAVE FULL ON PROOF!


But dave, you also need to list that a company if they want to promote on this site, needs to have full data backed on ANY statement they say. Dont make us bring another Koolance vs HWLabs incident. Cuz i will bring one if i catch a company slipping and lying to us.

R3 knows what company i currently have my eye on as well. I almost have enough proof to lay a can of whoopass on them as well.

Lying vendors shouldnt even be on this forum, so if we run them off, GOOD.
There are ways to do things. Do it in a civilized manner and not "This frigging company sucks donkey di*cks!"..
Like the movie Roadhouse, "There's times to be nice and times not to be nice"
You find a POS product like those steel Koolance fittings show it, document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
Get my point.. civil..
Now I know your full of piss and vinegar and still young enough that the testosterone rules so whe you have that overwhelming urge to totally bas someone, PM me and do it ok?:up:

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D
:up:Excellent post.. I'll take a old fashioned Miller..Ice cold please..:D

So he left because people have an attitude when they post? Well i dont know if thats against the rules or not but generally thats the same attitude in any of the forums, people are who they are your not gona be able to change the way people talk because your thin skinned. Ive seen the fanboism but in the liquid cooling section i really dont think its that bad, ive gotten more valuable information out of this sub section then any of the others, people dont get excited and recommend EK blocks because they are fanboys, they recommend them because they are the best, plain and simple. Getting pissy because for the past 6 months every one is recommending EK waterblocks and giving an attitude over the way other companys poorly manufacture their products isnt fanboism, its the truth, plain and simple. You want the cold hard truth about how to build a awesome watercooling system, you come to the XS water cooling forum, you want to post how awesome your brand new 100 dollar koolance kit is, with the rotting compression fittings and the mixed matched metals, and have everyone tell you how uber cool it is, you go the IGN forums where they ban people on the spot for posting sny remarks against their sponsors.

Sorry thats just the way i feel, ive never had anyone in this liquid cooling section have an attitude that was out of line or hurt my feelings.
It has gotten bad lately, trust me on that.
I wouldn't have typed till my fingers fell off if things were fine here.

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

Yes, but as I said to Naekuh, with tact and facts to prove your position.

[[XC] riptide]

-snip-

Again, my 2 cents.

andyc

Andy and Martin :clap:


However, I believe NaeKuh will deliver, his metaphorical Can of Whoop ass, in a respectful manner, with facts, and without emotions and tears.

[Spawne32]

There are ways to do things. Do it in a civilized manner and not "This frigging company sucks donkey di*cks!"..
Like the movie Roadhouse, "There's times to be nice and times not to be nice"
You find a POS product like those steel Koolance fittings show it, document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..
Get my point.. civil..
Now I know your full of piss and vinegar and still young enough that the testosterone rules so whe you have that overwhelming urge to totally bas someone, PM me and do it ok?:up:

:up:Excellent post.. I'll take a old fashioned Miller..Ice cold please..:D

It has gotten bad lately, trust me on that.
I wouldn't have typed till my fingers fell off if things were fine here.


Yes, but as I said to Naekuh, with tact and facts to prove your position.

Well you know me, no matter how bad things get i always love a good argument so i probably wouldnt have even noticed lol

[DarthBeavis]

oh hell im not gona start digging up all the test threads but people do them all the time, and EK is renound for quality and customer satisfaction and support, just ask the people who own them. I dont know how harsh people were getting with this guy who left the forum over it but i know people are rough around the edges on this forum in general, and it doesnt bother me in the slightest, its my favorite kind of atmosphere, and this wc section has always had valuable feedback and information and i still consider it the best for anyone looking for information on how to build their system. But you cant just expect to make one post and know everything you have to do research on your own and read what people are discussing.

Dtek people recommend Dtek, EK recommend EK, etc etc . . .does not mean they are the best ;) Just means they think it is best. Come on . . .have I ever said Danger Den products are the absolute best? No. I say they are up there in the upper level . . .

[skinnee]

I still think if a vendor puts out junk, they should be called out on it. Most of the time they know what they are doing when they "slip", they just choose to soak up profits.

I agree, but there is civil way to present it so the vendor/manufacturer listens to your feedback. As I said in my post, if we give respect and common courtesy we will recieve it back and will probably see more of them in the future. Now, would you deal with a customer that was a constant pain to deal with? Eventually, you'll give them the cold shoulder.

[Spawne32]

Dtek people recommend Dtek, EK recommend EK, etc etc . . .does not mean they are the best ;) Just means they think it is best. Come on . . .have I ever said Danger Den products are the absolute best? No. I say they are up there in the upper level . . .

There are a few occasional fanboys, and your gona get that practically everywhere, but most of the people that post here are seasoned water coolers and they recommend certain stuff based on results, not rumors or because they own it.

[Spawne32]

I agree, but there is civil way to present it so the vendor/manufacturer listens to your feedback. As I said in my post, if we give respect and common courtesy we will recieve it back and will probably see more of them in the future. Now, would you deal with a customer that was a constant pain to deal with? Eventually, you'll give them the cold shoulder.

Respect and common courtesy is a requirement of business to business oriented practice, generally you wont get that from a consumer who just had one of his products from said manufacturer fail on him only to find out the warranty doesnt cover it. You cant expect people to always act in a civilized manner when you are getting feedback on your product, but no matter how it is said in words the feedback is still valuable. If a marketing rep is reading a thread where people are screaming and cursing that the aluminum fittings they just bought are corroding, obviously its somthing you have to correct. If you want to stay in business you have to deal with all manner of customers, not just the friendly ones.

Edit: not that im saying respect and common courtesy is a bad thing, but you cant abandon a forum because people have extremely negative point of views on what you sell, you have to work to correct the issue, no matter how much of a beating you take, thats the way you survive in business.

[CrazyJoe]

... If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

Here Here ! Well said ! :up:
Count on me to be another of the "sick souls" that would be here reading the engineering data right along side of you. :D

[[XC] riptide]

Respect and common courtesy is a requirement of business to business oriented practice, generally you wont get that from a consumer who just had one of his products from said manufacturer fail on him only to find out the warranty doesnt cover it. You cant expect people to always act in a civilized manner when you are getting feedback on your product, but no matter how it is said in words the feedback is still valuable. If a marketing rep is reading a thread where people are screaming and cursing that the aluminum fittings they just bought are corroding, obviously its somthing you have to correct. If you want to stay in business you have to deal with all manner of customers, not just the friendly ones.


Actually Spawne, we do expect it here. Whats more we DEMAND civilised manner.

[Spawne32]

riptide;3308013']Actually Spawne, we do expect it here. Whats more we DEMAND civilised manner.

i meant for posts that are uncivilized but still with in the confines of the rules ;) theres no rules against angry posts calling products crap right?

[[XC] riptide]

We're splitting hairs... but ya I think we agree.

[IanY]

I'll say it again. No one has any need to defend reasons behind equipment choices, whether they are based strictly on scientific data, emotional reasons or just simply personsal preferences.

Honestly, anybody's choice of equipment isn't anyone else's damn business, and let's keep it that way.

Accusations of the "fanboy" nature are derogatory and demeaning. They debase the fundamental notion of individual choice.

When someone dislikes a particular set of brands, its also individual choice, and not anyone else's damn business. No one should be forced to fall in love with all manufacturers, and each consumer has every damn right to speak out for and against individual products, collective sets of products or a whole particular brand. Without infringing on anyone else's individual rights and liberties, its a free and open expression of opinion.

Next, its just fine for anyone to establish that the individual has X number of years of experience, or that has an engineering profession, or that the person has XYZ doctoral degree, or anything of that nature. The line is crossed when that individual insinuates immediate superiority over others when it comes to water cooling. Like I always say, any nitwit bumbling fidiot can pick up water cooling in an afternoon with some reading. This is not brain surgery. We're not building a bridge to the moon. Therefore, anyone in XS can have a valid opinion, and there is nobody here that commands full and immediate subjugation. Honestly, individuals of this elk like to flatter themselves a little too much. I'll leave it at that before I ruffle too many feathers.

[Movieman]

i meant for posts that are uncivilized but still with in the confines of the rules ;) theres no rules against angry posts calling products crap right?
No need to be uncivilized at all. All points can be made without saying the owner of X company is the illegitimate offspring of 2 manic depressive, psychotic Chimpanzees.
Best example I can think of is Naekuh's bringing up that point on the steel koolance fittings. That's the kind of info needed here. That and comments on new parts and then add in Joe Blow showing off his new rig as this is a hobby and we are supposed to have some fun with it.

I'll say it again. No one has any need to defend reasons behind equipment choices, whether they are based strictly on scientific data, emotional reasons or just simply personal preferences.

Honestly, anybody's choice of equipment isn't anyone else's damn business, and let's keep it that way.

Accusations of the "fanboy" nature are derogatory and demeaning. They debase the fundamental notion of individual choice.

When someone dislikes a particular set of brands, its also individual choice, and not anyone else's damn business. No one should be forced to fall in love with all manufacturers, and each consumer has every damn right to speak out for and against individual products, collective sets of products or a whole particular brand. Without infringing on anyone else's individual rights and liberties, its a free and open expression of opinion.

Next, its just fine for anyone to establish that the individual has X number of years of experience, or that has an engineering profession, or that the person has XYZ doctoral degree, or anything of that nature. The line is crossed when that individual insinuates immediate superiority over others when it comes to water cooling. Like I always say, any nitwit bumbling fidiot can pick up water cooling in an afternoon with some reading. This is not brain surgery. We're not building a bridge to the moon. Therefore, anyone in XS can have a valid opinion, and there is nobody here that commands full and immediate subjugation. Honestly, individuals of this elk like to flatter themselves a little too much. I'll leave it at that before I ruffle too many feathers.

Pretty well said but if you toss an aluminum Koolance radiator in your loop I can understand someone explaining the effects of Galvanic reaction to you(sic) That to me, if it's said civilly, is constructive criticism and a positive thing.

[Utnorris]

Ok,
first things first, MM, this has to be the best quote I have ever read:

document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..

I may put that in my sig. That made my day and really made me laugh hard.


Ok, so back on point. I joined this forum sometime around the first of the year. I started with a Swiftech H2O Compact kit that I got off of Ebay. Thought the idea was cool, so I got it. I ended up breaking a barb on the Apogee Drive and that started my journey to the system I have now. I like this forum because there are a lot of helpful (although colorful sometimes) people here and for the most part, supportive. When I asked about what to do with my Apogee Drive, Waterlogged gave me a suggestion of using a Petra top or something similiar. If he hadn't told me that I would have bought a new pump and thrown that one away. It's moments like that that make me like this forum. Now I like to build stuff and I agree with Martin, there are a lot of parts that you can get off the shelf and slap together, take a picture and viola, you have a "Million Dollar PC". But like Martin, I think the real good, juicy stuff comes from when people make it themselves or "Mod" something like a case. Since I joined I have made or attempted to make 3 cases, some good, some bad. I have modded 3 more cases, again some good and some bad. That's just me, I can't just sit around looking at something without trying to improve it. To me this forum, Xtremesystems, is about taking your passion to the xtreme. It might be that you want the "bling" "bling" and you build you system with lights and smoke and maybe even a Volcano Res made by Cyber :up:. Or you might be the guy/girl that wants to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your chip and so getting an extra 100mhz or better timings from your ram is worth changing your blocks or going with a TC rad. You could be that person that wants the absolute best bang for your buck, remember the Celeron 300a, yeah baby, that was a chip. My point is that "Xtremesystem" has a different meaning for everyone and therefore when someone asks a question they are probably going to get various answers based on personal opinions based on that persons preferences to what "Xtreme" means. How many times have we seen the question "What's the best block out there?". Are you serious? That's like asking "What's the best movie of all time is?". Those questions are just asking for it in my opinion, however, that doesn't mean we can't just simply say "What is your goal New Guy?" Do you want the best performance with unlimited money? Do you want the best bang for you buck? You get my point? It's ok to raz someone as long as you are also being helpful and doing it in a playful and respectful way. On the flip side, if you say something stupid or ask something stupid, don't go crying to mommy when someone slaps you, :D. We are all big boys and girls, some bigger than others, :D, and we should be able to take a little razzing here and there. I never got upset with folks for questioning my morality or ethics about whether to RMA something when we broke it and I said sure. Why? Because I do not personally know anyone here. Sure, I might speak with you, PM you, but until we sit down to dinner, we don't know each other, just that simple and so someone questioning my integrity just makes me laugh.

Now as far as people being a fanboy of a product or a company, who cares? We all know R3 loves Mountain Mods and Sidewinders, it doesn't make him a bad person just because he hawks them like they are the second coming, take it with a grain of salt. I think Koolance compression fitting are the best bang for the buck and tell people that, am I evil? I don't think so. If you come here and ask a question, i.e. "What's the best block?", R3 is not going to be the only person to sell you on a block, plenty folks going to try and sell you D-Tek or DD. It doesn't make any of them evil for doing it. But if you ask that question and then go and buy a product without spending sometime researching it and then you do not like it, tough. This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.

Now, can we get back to selling EK Supreme with TC Rads all bought from Petra's please. :D

Thank you and have a good night,

[Movieman]

Ok,
first things first, MM, this has to be the best quote I have ever read:

document it but don't say the owner of Koolance is the offspring of two mentally retarded Chimpanzee's..

I may put that in my sig. That made my day and really made me laugh hard.


Ok, so back on point. I joined this forum sometime around the first of the year. I started with a Swiftech H2O Compact kit that I got off of Ebay. Thought the idea was cool, so I got it. I ended up breaking a barb on the Apogee Drive and that started my journey to the system I have now. I like this forum because there are a lot of helpful (although colorful sometimes) people here and for the most part, supportive. When I asked about what to do with my Apogee Drive, Waterlogged gave me a suggestion of using a Petra top or something similiar. If he hadn't told me that I would have bought a new pump and thrown that one away. It's moments like that that make me like this forum. Now I like to build stuff and I agree with Martin, there are a lot of parts that you can get off the shelf and slap together, take a picture and viola, you have a "Million Dollar PC". But like Martin, I think the real good, juicy stuff comes from when people make it themselves or "Mod" something like a case. Since I joined I have made or attempted to make 3 cases, some good, some bad. I have modded 3 more cases, again some good and some bad. That's just me, I can't just sit around looking at something without trying to improve it. To me this forum, Xtremesystems, is about taking your passion to the xtreme. It might be that you want the "bling" "bling" and you build you system with lights and smoke and maybe even a Volcano Res made by Cyber :up:. Or you might be the guy/girl that wants to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your chip and so getting an extra 100mhz or better timings from your ram is worth changing your blocks or going with a TC rad. You could be that person that wants the absolute best bang for your buck, remember the Celeron 300a, yeah baby, that was a chip. My point is that "Xtremesystem" has a different meaning for everyone and therefore when someone asks a question they are probably going to get various answers based on personal opinions based on that persons preferences to what "Xtreme" means. How many times have we seen the question "What's the best block out there?". Are you serious? That's like asking "What's the best movie of all time is?". Those questions are just asking for it in my opinion, however, that doesn't mean we can't just simply say "What is your goal New Guy?" Do you want the best performance with unlimited money? Do you want the best bang for you buck? You get my point? It's ok to raz someone as long as you are also being helpful and doing it in a playful and respectful way. On the flip side, if you say something stupid or ask something stupid, don't go crying to mommy when someone slaps you, :D. We are all big boys and girls, some bigger than others, :D, and we should be able to take a little razzing here and there. I never got upset with folks for questioning my morality or ethics about whether to RMA something when we broke it and I said sure. Why? Because I do not personally know anyone here. Sure, I might speak with you, PM you, but until we sit down to dinner, we don't know each other, just that simple and so someone questioning my integrity just makes me laugh.

Now as far as people being a fanboy of a product or a company, who cares? We all know R3 loves Mountain Mods and Sidewinders, it doesn't make him a bad person just because he hawks them like they are the second coming, take it with a grain of salt. I think Koolance compression fitting are the best bang for the buck and tell people that, am I evil? I don't think so. If you come here and ask a question, i.e. "What's the best block?", R3 is not going to be the only person to sell you on a block, plenty folks going to try and sell you D-Tek or DD. It doesn't make any of them evil for doing it. But if you ask that question and then go and buy a product without spending sometime researching it and then you do not like it, tough. This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.

Now, can we get back to selling EK Supreme with TC Rads all bought from Petra's please. :D

Thank you and have a good night,

Where's my Ban Hammer?:rofl:
I have no issue with someone saying 'EK Blocks Rock"..
I have an issue with someone saying "If you don't buy EK blocks your a moron"
Also no issues with someone saying that Ben from Mountain Mods or the guys at Petra's are excellent or Sidewinders, or Performance PC's,etc are good to deal with.
It's not the positive I'm concerned with but the negative.
You buy a part that was broken at any of these places and they tell you to pound sand on an RMA then you have a right to be pissed but be pissed civilly ok?
There was a guy here complaining about one company so we did some research. He never bought from them and guess what?
He worked for their competitor. Sum Biatrch huh? Dirth pool my friend and that pissed me off. He's history and I mean on an intergalactic vacation that will last light years!
Honesty,integrity, and posts made in friendship will take care of all.
Treat each other with respect and things will improve and improve fast.

[twwen2]

This forum should not be here to make decisions for people, just suggest some products that might be good for their situation. I was looking for a PSU awhile back and after my head felt like it was going to explode from all the reviews I had read, I asked for recommendations based on what I was looking for. I got a lot answers including some from JohnnyGuru. I took all that info, put it in a pot, stirred it, baked it on 375 degrees for an hour and then made a decision. In the end it was my decision and not someone else's and therefore I owned that, good or bad. So I say "Take some responsibility for your decisions or lack of" and do not expect that others should make them for you.


I like that bit. At the risk of something (i'm not suite sure what lol); i think some people are just out to please the other members here. To suck up, to fit in.

Why, you ask?
Because i was like that to start with. I wanted to get parts that others here were using, not beause i needed them or they were best for me, but because i felt like "i i have this, i'll fit in and be accepted".

It's important that each member and newbie makes informed decisions, but we're not here to tell you what you want or like. We should give advice based on the criteria given to us (most of the time a budget). I can't stand it when someone (without having done any research) asks us to tell them what to buy. It makes me want to yell "You gotta get what you want. Only then will you be happy". I reckon that's half the fun of building a wc system; doing hours of research and getting exactly what you want, with some stuff you don't actually need. :D

[IanY]

I think some people are just out to please the other members here. To suck up, to fit in.



That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

[[XC] riptide]

That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

His post wasn't about you and didn't mention your name once. :rolleyes: Why did you answer like this?

BTW The bolded part... was it necessary? This is the kind of thing this whole thread is about.

[twwen2]

That's just blooming ridiculous. I never follow equipment trends, especially in XS. I don't even agree with the choices of those whom I call friends, and i'm certainly not going to blindly emulate them. Naekuh and RRR love their EK Supreme. You can't get me to buy one, even if you were to tie me up and subject me to Vietcong torture.

I caused a whole ruckus with YL fans, and I got the "I am Cathar and I endorse them.. " My attitude was.."yeah you like them, and 95 out of 100 people in XS like them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still cheap Chinese crap.. and Cathar who?"

Aha, i didn't have you in mind my friend. I know very well you don't follow the trends, you make that very clear very often ;).

However, just because you aren't like what i described doesn't mean there aren't those people out there. Just to clarify; i don't think everyone who asks for advice is trying to fit in or follow a trend. Not at all. I'm just saying that there are some people like that, because i was like that once.

And what was that thing about cathar for? I reckon if someone deliberately gave advice contrary to what someone like Martin210 would say, then i bet people would get worked up. I'd be the first. We respect the experts and their opinions because of the effort they put into this community. :)

[Gir92]

I agree with CD, I think alot of the problems have occurred because folks need to "Do something (that does NOT mean posting in this forum)". the old days of the forum used to be filled with people testing stuff and fabricating custom projects. Back in those days folks were too busy with a copper slab on thier drill presses or soldering on a heatercore, you just didn't get here without some pain and time invested in building stuff, it was a necessity. With watercooling going more mainstream, water cooling has made fabrication optional, you can have a fully functional water cooling system out of the box with 100% bolt on parts. No need to build and no need to test or tinker, it works. So I think part of it is just plain boredom, they don't share or contribute anything to the forum but their strong personality and business relationship opinions. I'd suggest taking the mix of parts and try and see if you can make them better, tinkering is always a means to make something even better and there is no one magic bullet or perfect combination for everyones budget or experience. We need more folks "Trying" or "Building":hammer: wierd ideas and, that's where the fun is at!! And even if we're not building parts from scratch, there's still tons to do with combinations of parts and sharing what you've learned.

I also think in general the "feel" here has been defensive and destructive.:poke: If you make folks feel uncomfortable or always find yourself in the middle of irritation, chances are you are being "Destructive" to the thread. If you are not posting something with 100% intent to help posotively encourage and help the person posting, you've failed at being constructive and you are being selfish. You shouldn't find yourself in the middle of conflict on every other thread or chances are, something is wrong. Take ownership of your actions and seek to be constructive.

I also think people are just sick of all the SPAM. AKA brand loyalty and fanboism, whatever you know what it is. Opinions without context as to why you feel the way you do is no different than your most annoying pop up banner ad. Opinions without context are SPAM!!:spam:

That's not to say we shouldn't have fun. If the forum was nothing but engineering data, I'd probably be one of a few sick souls that would stay here and enjoy reading it, but it would be quiet. Honestly water cooling is a hobby, it's not necessary, and it's not a perfect science. We're here to have fun, so lets do it, but just don't do it at the expense of others.:toast:

Cheers to constructive comments, constructive discussions, context supported opinions, and having an honest but respectful good time!!
:party:

Beers are on me!..:D

To add onto that, if you don't have anything that you can contribute to the thread and have proof to back it up, don't say anything at all. (Unless it's an opinion, which can never be backed up by facts.)

"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks because he has to say something" - Plato

[septim]

i think the term fanboi denotes too much meaning for some people... (meaning the person is blind to everything else besides said product)... and should not be used often... i prefer/he prefers would be the better term/statement to use.

Just an example: RRR prefers this and that, but is also open to other opinions/suggestions (and will probably buy said other opinion/product and add it to his collection)
He is entitled to his opinion, and when you get to know his attitude/behavior, you either let it slide or let it get to you. Of course its better to let it slide.
this is an open forum, and some youngsters do learn from the examples we set. so keep things civil...

This is XtremeSystems Liquid Cooling, I came here to learn and teach what i learn. Patience and Common Sense being foremost.
I am sorry if the guy who PMed didn't stay or have the patience to wade through the recent BS going on around here, but there are always more people to teach and advice each day.

*sometimes typing in text doesn't clearly explain what we want to explain. people just need to keep an open mind on such topics. mods and members alike.

[.Logic]

Damn, I can't believe I have only just found this thread. It has only been in the past 2weeks that I too have wanted to do something similar. Now I haven't been at XS for long (3 and a 1/2 years lurking plus time as a member) compared to some, but it doesn't take much to see that the watercooling section has taken a turn for the worse and been deteriorating slowly but surely for a good 3 months (maybe less maybe more, that is just the time I began to REALLY notice things heading south). All I can say is that some serious growing up needs to be done by the respective offenders and that I am glad that this issue has been brought to light. Hopefully the WC section can become what it once was...

Mods, I want to thankyou for your on going service/commitment to the XS community. I know it can't be easy but you guys persevere nonetheless, I'm sure this problem (now out in the open more than ever) will be no different. You guys are truely what keeps XS tick tocking away (and some). :) </end suck up> :p:

I only hope that this issue can be overcome and any disagreements between individuals be set straight.

Cheers to XS and all those whom play a constructive part, whether that be in the running, maintenance or contribution to discussion and content on the site.

Thankyou.

[Utnorris]

We are all guilty of promoting a product at some point, including DB, yes DB you too. Remember when the Swiftech GTZ was announced, there was a lot folks ready to dump their current block for the GTZ. Then the tests were done and it looked as though it was no better than the D-Tek Fuzion V2. Now when someone asks which block to get, the GTZ comes up. This is by people who don't even own it. That doesn't make them fanboi's, it just means they are sheep following the herd. To me you shouldn't recommend something you personally haven't tried even if you can point to some review to back up your claim. Given enough time I am sure I could find where someone pissed on their chip and it cooled it, doesn't mean I would recommend it. I only recomend the products I either own currently or have owned and then I qualify it with a big "IMHO" quote. There are no right parts when doing water cooling or even building a computer, just recommendations. This is because what may work for one person doesn't mean it will work for another at giving them their desired results. We all have goals when we build a new system or modify an existing one and therefore there are no bad ideas. Unless you have tried doing exactly what someone is trying for the same reasons you really cannot say without a doubt what will or will not work. This of course is just my opinion.

[gillbot]

I understand that vendors failing to live up to their side should be brought to light in a courteous manner but sometimes that isn't an option.

I've had a few run-ins myself where the polite and tactful approach got me a "sorry you are SOL" email in return. Only after I smeared their name across every forum I cared to post it on, did they finally honor their warranty and make good on their product. We all know of companies skimming on product quality knowingly only to increase their bottom line. To me, these types of companies don't deserve the tactful approach.

[septim]

When a person has to go to every thread where their preferred product is not the one being spoken of in a good light and inject <insert favored product name here> FTW . . . then that is Fan Boism. That includes using other FTW substitutes but still basically being a broken record . . .

i am sure each and everyone of us has encountered these kind of persons before but i don't make it a point to correct each and everyone of them. as it would be a waste of my time...

i am also sure that you have encountered these kind of persons in your modding world, those that vehemently prefer this design over what you're planning. but you don't really have to listen to them, cause they ain't the one building said project.

much like RRR, he prefers this product over that, but in the end he ain't the one building the member's project, in the end its the member who gets to decide which product he will buy and add to his ongoing project, he don't really have to listen to RRR's preference (unless of course RRR finances said project, hehehe)...

i would like to suggest to you guys with hot heads and bruised egos to take a few days/weeks break from posting once in a while to cool off, unwind and relax... take a step back and re evaluate yourselves...as its not really mandatory to post in XS once or several times a day just to build up post count...

[Sadasius]

That's the best thing you can do when someone irritates you around here:up:

It's a forum members best friend IMO.

thanks,

andyc

I agree very much. If they irritate you so much and you know they can push your buttons the good ol ignore list works wonders. Plus it saves the scroll wheel. So save a dying scroll wheel today and use the ignore options. It adds years! :up:

[Ashraf]

Thread cleaned. :rolleyes:

[skinnee]

I understand that vendors failing to live up to their side should be brought to light in a courteous manner but sometimes that isn't an option.

I've had a few run-ins myself where the polite and tactful approach got me a "sorry you are SOL" email in return. Only after I smeared their name across every forum I cared to post it on, did they finally honor their warranty and make good on their product. We all know of companies skimming on product quality knowingly only to increase their bottom line. To me, these types of companies don't deserve the tactful approach.

In this scenario you described, I don't have a problem with your second course of action. You tried civil and upfront approach, that didn't work, so you tried another method. I am almost certain we are on the same page here. Try the honest and civil approach...if that doesn't work, raise the issue.

[Waterlogged]

Thread cleaned. :rolleyes:

That's too bad because I was about to make a very valid point about maturity using some of those posts. Oh well. :(

[NaeKuh]

do you guys seriously think i care what a vendor says or does (do you think nikhsub1 even cares?)
You guys forget i probably dumped more then 4 figures in each h2o company right now?
I think that itself entitles me to express my own opinions on that product.

If a vendor black lists me, do you honestly think i cant go somewhere else to get my own stuff? I have a lot of friends who own mills that could pop out whatever i wanted in a matter of weeks.

Have you guys forgotten next to our legend moders, i probably hold the largest custom eq collection on this forum.

Maturity, Why are we protecting the people we are buying stuff from? Isnt there obligation to listen to us and meet our requests?

The fanboism in picking parts i agree, but the vendor quarrls?

Ash can i remind you a vendor said i was wrong for 5 months only to be proved later on that HE was wrong instead? IS THIS FAIR?

:down:


Try the honest and civil approach...if that doesn't work, raise the issue.

Am i ever not social or not nice? Even my Koolance warning thread, did i not make a clear and to the point issue? What if i kept this though emails and PM's. Did you count how many other people realized this problem AFTER i posted?

Ash you seriously telling me not to speak to ANY Vendors on the open forum anymore? I only talk to them on 2 situations.

1. Awesome product giving them upgrade possibilities or compliements on such a fine production piece.
2. Lay down a can of whoop ass cuz they shin'd to noobies and i dont really like that.

[Spawne32]

Thread cleaned. :rolleyes:

that gif i posted was gold and you know it ;)

[IanY]

I'm sure you don't want to hear my opinion, but I'll state it anyway. In my opinion, Naekuh is absolutely correct. It is incumbent on the manufacturers to please their customers, and not the other way around. At the end of the day, the only people who are hurt by poor customer relations are the manufacturers and retailers themselves. They choose to ignore their major customers at their own peril.

[Xilikon]

I'm sure you don't want to hear my opinion, but I'll state it anyway. In my opinion, Naekuh is absolutely correct. It is incumbent on the manufacturers to please their customers, and not the other way around. At the end of the day, the only people who are hurt by poor customer relations are the manufacturers and retailers themselves. They choose to ignore their major customers at their own peril.

At the risk of be treated as a sheep, I agree with IanY. After all, what they seek in the end is our money ;)

[fart_plume]

This is Sad, Just Sad, Everyone need to go back to the beginning of thread and reread Dave's op post. With as many times as Ashraf has had to come in here and clean this thread you'd think you were in SF. Think before you post people.

[NaeKuh]

okey no i agree with you guys.

There is a difference between going OMFG vendor X is a Lying SOB that robbed my money.

vs.

Vendor X has a flaw in there product, and i would like to bring it to people's attention.

I like to applogize if i did the first situation, but i believe the second situation should always be at our disposal expecially if you own the product. :T

[Sadasius]

There is a difference between going OMFG vendor X is a Lying SOB that robbed my money.

vs.

Vendor X has a flaw in there product, and i would like to bring it to people's attention.


Option two is always the best. If we castrate the makers of our products from being able to talk with us then they will not be able to give the needed constructive criticism needed to have the parts we need or want. Having a good relationship with the vendors and manufacturers is always a plus. They want to make more money....Show them how! :up:

[Martinm210]

okey no i agree with you guys.

There is a difference between going OMFG vendor X is a Lying SOB that robbed my money.

vs.

Vendor X has a flaw in there product, and i would like to bring it to people's attention.

I like to applogize if i did the first situation, but i believe the second situation should always be at our disposal expecially if you own the product. :T

I think you're spot on:yepp:. We all want to hear when something goes wrong or quality of parts just isn't meeting our expectations, this is a great place to do that sort of thing. What we don't want is someone that has some sort of business partnership bashing competitors for personal gain.


Quality control and customer service are two areas that are really difficult if not impossible to include in any sort of review. Without the ability to share personal experiences in these two areas, we'd never really know how they are unless it happend to us individually.

I think it's good stuff as long as all the details are included to tell the whole story...and I think we've been doing pretty well with that.

[skinnee]

Sorry I was slow in my response to you NaeKuh. I am not saying that you have not been civil, social or nice. What spawned my response in the first place was seeing the lambasting other vendors have recieved and the "can of whoop ass" reference.

Gillbot and I came to the same conclusion, some vendors/manufacturers recieve are feedback when we approach them in a civil and respectful manner...others need some mud on their face before they will listen. But we cannot assume that all vendors/manufacturers need the mud thrown at them in order to recieve our feedback. We have to try to respectful and civilized route before resorting to other means of getting the point across and the right information in front of them. This is the same way I operate in day to day business. Sometimes you have to resort to other means for a company to take care of you as a customer, others appreciate your business enough to deal with you in the respectful manner. Again, we have to take the high road first each time we need to point out issues.

I'm not trying to single you out here NaeKuh, you just presented an example of the point I was trying to make. My apologies for using your statement as a means to make my point, but it was an ideal example.

[MomijiTMO]

I've been busy this week so I missed this thread. I do think some of us have taken brand loyalty to far and I just don't notice it any more.

[bigslappy]

Vendor X has a flaw in there product, and i would like to bring it to people's attention.

, but i believe the second situation should always be at our disposal expecially if you own the product. :T

If NaeKuh had not posted the Koolance thread I'd never would have checked my plugs for rust & they would still be doing damage to my systems
AND the fact that the fittings by Koolance that had the steel plugs in my systems were suggested to me as an issue solver that I had asked about on a thread about said issue, by a well known & long time "XS" member ( don't want to drop names here )
That is why we should post when a Vendor does not come clean with shoddy W/C'in products & out right lies about materials used to make the W/C'in parts .
.. I'm not upset at said member I'm upset at Koolance ,
but I've moved on to BETTER Vendors & now am one HAPPY Camper with what I've got ( if I can't get it then I mod/make it )

[septim]

That is why we should post when a Vendor does not come clean with shoddy W/C'in products & out right lies about materials used to make the W/C'in parts .
.. I'm not upset at said member I'm upset at Koolance ,

do it in a civilize, non humiliating, non threatening, non flame baiting, non trolling, non too offensive manner(use common sense), then i am hopeful/sure we won't have problems arising...
this is all the mods ask. i am sure we can all come to terms in a peaceful non provoking manner.

[Janno]

I think you're spot on:yepp:. We all want to hear when something goes wrong or quality of parts just isn't meeting our expectations, this is a great place to do that sort of thing. What we don't want is someone that has some sort of business partnership bashing competitors for personal gain.


Quality control and customer service are two areas that are really difficult if not impossible to include in any sort of review. Without the ability to share personal experiences in these two areas, we'd never really know how they are unless it happend to us individually.

I think it's good stuff as long as all the details are included to tell the whole story...and I think we've been doing pretty well with that.QFT

just hold back the urge for flaming and consult with the manufacturer or reseller before starting a thread

[alacheesu]

I agree with the original post. At the same time I would also like to thank those who actually do stuff and share their findings, helping people like me make informed decisions. I won't mention names because of those I would forget to mention, but they are the ones that make me glad I joined this forum.

[IanB]

LOL it's so funny seeing some of the egos from this subforum "seeing the light" in this thread... :rofl:

[septim]

its a normal behavioral pattern, seeing that you're wrong and that you wish to make amends is good.

now, not admitting you're wrong and you still continue doing wrong, now thats just thick-headedness or wounded ego talking...

[Marci]

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum

I got a higher paying job offered to me when I needed it the most that also now incorporates my original love - sound engineering... Cathar fell in love with motorbikes n' race tracks n' petrol... dunno what happened to Maxx... s'just life gets in the way and some folks have to move on, others choose to move on. No-one forced us out / scared us off / pi**ed us off to the point we couldn't be arsed anymore... Some of us linger when we've nothing else to do ;)

[MomijiTMO]

Gaaahh seriously can people just relax and back the hell down from their I AM BETTER THAN YOU tower. Seriously there seems to be 3 factions in the liquid cooling forum. You have the Texans, Anti-RRR guys and then people like me who don't give a hoot [the majority]. There seems to be this constant thread slapping in a thread every time I visit this place. It's stupid. No one cares who you are or what you do with your money that you earned through hard work. If RRR wants to buy 40 TCs, let him. If some dude doesn't like MM let them. If someone uses TT blocks because they already had them and can't afford to upgrade atm, let them.

We make suggestions and the guys that have been doing this for years and have say 5 pumps etc are very helpful. However it seems that due to previous throat slicing that these fellas are less willing to help due to flamming or have resorted to flamming people who are trying to push a stupid idea [metal mixing etc]. If you think it's stupid, DON'T POST. That's what I do.

It has come to someone being banned for reasons I do not know and then some people start slapping each other and the mods for the action. Very few people do get banned in XS so unless you have been talking to banned person or the mods, then you don't know what happened. Hopefully they will return to XS after their ban and won't do whatever happened again. Don't forget you can get banned from accumulating too many infraction points from minor things too.



EDIT : Due to another thread being closed, I will say it here. This is XS, not fricken high school. There is more drama on XS than I ever had in school. Most of you are older [and wiser] than me so com'on why are you making me say the obvious.

[Movieman]

There is more than meets the eye here and since I beleive in honesty this thread by IanY that I just closed and moved to dead threads is all because RRR had his access pulled to the WC section 2 hours ago by one of the admin.
I don't know the details yet but this has been coming for a long time.
IanY's decision to leave was based on what happenned to RRR, it had not one thing to do with him but he chose to make it so.
Pure drama for lack of a better description.
He told me weeks ago that if RRR was banned that "he and a small group would be leaving" So be it,that is his choice.
Have a nice life but no dramatics.

[NaeKuh]

OMG MARCI!!!!

WE missed ya!!!

[.Logic]

Oh! Marci!

Welcome back!


There is more than meets the eye here and since I beleive in honesty this thread by IanY that I just closed and moved to dead threads is all because RRR had his access pulled to the WC section 2 hours ago by one of the admin.
I don't know the details yet but this has been coming for a long time.
IanY's decision to leave was based on what happenned to RRR, it had not one thing to do with him but he chose to make it so.
Pure drama for lack of a better description.
He told me weeks ago that if RRR was banned that "he and a small group would be leaving" So be it,that is his choice.
Have a nice life but no dramatics.

Thanks for letting us know what happened MM, I can tell you it's much appreciated. Good for the forum I say, the less drama the better.

[MomijiTMO]

Well I for one don't want to see anyone being run off or leaving XS. However it appears threads like this had minimal impact and obviously bans, friendly warnings in posts, infraction points etc doesn't seem to do much to stop the flames so I say just close the entire Liquid Cooling forum. End of story, move along fellas. If it continues it will happen. Speak freely died.

[twwen2]

Well I for one don't want to see anyone being run off or leaving XS. However it appears threads like this had minimal impact and obviously bans, friendly warnings in posts, infraction points etc doesn't seem to do much to stop the flames so I say just close the entire Liquid Cooling forum. End of story, move along fellas. If it continues it will happen. Speak freely died.

Don't be silly momo!
You're over-stressed from studying for exams.
Take a break bro ;)

[2low4u]

It's Ludicrous to say the least! R3 is an asset to this community I don't care what anyone says! he had his beliefs sure but in no way did he deserve to be banned! I can name other pompous people that would deserve it much more than R3 ever would have but they have since left. I've been on alot of sites over the years & this is the first I've seen anything like this happen. :down:

[MomijiTMO]

Dude it's not really your place to comment on such things. From what I've been told, few people know or understand why RealRedRaider was banned and until we know [assuming we will ever know], just let it slide. There are no vendettas by mods on XS so I assume there is a solid reason why he was banned OR it was a mistake OR an over reaction. I don't understand why everyone is going ballistic until you know what happened. You can't think a XS staff decided to ban him because he say informed us of new BP/MM products right? Either way, I fail to see how this severely impacts on your XS experience and if you think the mods are over zealous, then there are plenty of other forums out there :). I don't really care to assess the actions of a XS staff member so don't ask me what I think.

[Baleful]

This entire ordeal is just....... sad. :shakes:

And yes, losing RRR and IanY, however abrasive you may think they are, would be a loss to this community.

[sirheck]

Cool!:up:

[MomijiTMO]

This entire ordeal is just....... sad. :shakes:

And yes, losing RRR and IanY, however abrasive you may think they are, would be a loss to this community.

Well yes of course losing them and others would suck quite a lot and then some.

[sirheck]

Well yes of course losing them and others would suck quite a lot and then some.
IMO.
Not really.

[Omastar]

Dude it's not really your place to comment on such things. From what I've been told, few people know or understand why RealRedRaider was banned and until we know [assuming we will ever know], just let it slide. There are no vendettas by mods on XS so I assume there is a solid reason why he was banned OR it was a mistake OR an over reaction. I don't understand why everyone is going ballistic until you know what happened. You can't think a XS staff decided to ban him because he say informed us of new BP/MM products right? Either way, I fail to see how this severely impacts on your XS experience and if you think the mods are over zealous, then there are plenty of other forums out there :). I don't really care to assess the actions of a XS staff member so don't ask me what I think.

Agreed. Clearly, whoever the banning party/parties were had a solid reason to do so...you may disagree with mods and admins (I often do), but I doubt any of them have a personal grievance with RRR or Ian...maybe he was more of a PITA to the staff than we were aware of. :rofl:

[jtf2]

and what then of the fact that r3 himself has not been told why the ban??!!

[Movieman]

Obviously something happened today that said to the admin here that it was time that RRR be removed from the WC section. I still am finding out details on that.
personally and just speaking for myself the only issue I ever had with RRR is that he came across as either the biggest fanboy in existance for MM cases and for that etailer or that he was working for their interests.
That was just my feeling and the cause of the post I did weeks ago on the issue. He has stated that he doesn't work for them and I will accept that. I also spoke to Ben Rising at MM on this issue and he confirms that RRR is just a customer.
On a one to one basis I've spoken with RRR many times and he seems like a decent guy to me. Articulate and very easy to talk with so I'm stating that there is no personal issue between us.

IanY on the other hand is a different situation.
I've known him for close to two years I think and at first really liked the guy even though I saw he was very quick to rise to anger on even the smallest of issues. Then there was the issue with the cars that spoke to his credibility and even then I supported the guy when others were telling me he was just tossing BS.
Then in the last months I've seen him progress to the next step.
Almost a martyr complex from what I saw based on his posts, his titles and his sig.
Maybe it is best for him and the forum as a whole that he takes a break from this place and gets his head screwed on right.
I don't say any of this in anger but just based on what I saw.
I wish it could be different. The IanY I met a couple years ago was a guy that I would have liked to get to know better.
Maybe a break from here can get that guy back to what he was. I hope so.

[.Logic]

Obviously something happened today that said to the admin here that it was time that RRR be removed from the WC section. I still am finding out details on that.
personally and just speaking for myself the only issue I ever had with RRR is that he came across as either the biggest fanboy in existance for MM cases and for that etailer or that he was working for their interests.
That was just my feeling and the cause of the post I did weeks ago on the issue. He has stated that he doesn't work for them and I will accept that. I also spoke to Ben Rising at MM on this issue and he confirms that RRR is just a customer.
On a one to one basis I've spoken with RRR many times and he seems like a decent guy to me. Articulate and very easy to talk with so I'm stating that there is no personal issue between us.

IanY on the other hand is a different situation.
I've known him for close to two years I think and at first really liked the guy even though I saw he was very quick to rise to anger on even the smallest of issues. Then there was the issue with the cars that spoke to his credibility and even then I supported the guy when others were telling me he was just tossing BS.
Then in the last months I've seen him progress to the next step.
Almost a martyr complex from what I saw based on his posts, his titles and his sig.
Maybe it is best for him and the forum as a whole that he takes a break from this place and gets his head screwed on right.
I don't say any of this in anger but just based on what I saw.
I wish it could be different. The IanY I met a couple years ago was a guy that I would have liked to get to know better.
Maybe a break from here can get that guy back to what he was. I hope so.

My thoughts EXACTLY :clap:

Especially the bolded text... Seriously hit the nail on the head :)

[Movieman]

Some people may think me old fashioned in my beleifs but you guys hear me say 'friends first"
A forum is a place where people exchange information and all benefit by that exchange but it only works when it's done in a pleasant atmosphere for all.
This constant bickering between different factions takes away from what we all come here for and God's truth there's times when I think that is these peoples plan. To try and break up what we have here and friend or not, new member or old member, that I won't allow to happen.
The Xs forum in general, and the WC section in particular, is greater than any one individual and all the mods try and do is keep the peace so that the members can come here and learn amongst friends.
It used to be that way and it will be that way again.
It is really that simple to me.

[twwen2]

Cool!:up:


IMO.
Not really.

Seems to have hit a nerve there buddy! A bit personal for my liking...:shrug:


<snip>

Well said MM. Thanks for you're continuing professional approach to the job at hand. :yepp:

[shellac]

I can't help but think that my post about G.A.S. (Gear/Guitar Acquisition Syndrome) and the response I received from RCubed had something to do with his banning? I didn't intend nor did I fathom that my comment implied that RRR was wasting his money, but he seemed to think so and was determined to let me know? Regardless, the "welcome" to the forum and to his thread was pure "internet drama" and didn't bother me the least. I just kinda found the whole affair to be an expected response from a person who's very eh.. *chooses his words carefuly* defensive about what he's doing. We all have G.A.S. If we didn't, we'd be happy with the brown box that's shipped from Lenovo/Dell/HP, received about a week after you click "submit" on their web order forum.

The rest of the crowd said to set sail to other corners of the internet - just names I've seen from lurking on XS who I don't really know anything about. I read the RRR thread cause he had some gear that I recently purchased that got me searching and lead me to XS; RRR and I were/are going down the same path albeit in different 'vehicles'.

Reading & learning is the beauty of this medium, all made possible by the ones who take the time to share their experience for the benefit of all. But it's a fact of life that drama and ego are a part of any community no matter the intention of the community. In this format, we're left with a few omnipotent members, The MODS, who restore order when the balance of learning and drama gets swung too far to the side of drama. All fear the MODS!

[Marvin_The_Martian]

Idk what to say. I had a few arguments with RRR, but he didn't seem such a bad guy indeed, just a litle to outspoken on his beliefs in a way other people wouldn't always appriciate ( read = me for one ).

I thought he came around though :(

Idk about IanY, he did post something about not caring if people liked him or not, imho abit out of place because the only thing I asked was if he believed in community spirit so there must have been more happening in the background that I was not aware of.

Wouldn't mind having more insight in RRR's ban though, I think it has something to do with Martin's thread.

[.Logic]

To be honest, RRRs ban was a long time coming and in my opinion his ban wasn't because of one specific incident, but numerous events that have added up.

[Marvin_The_Martian]

All I said was that I saw an improvement in his attitude towards others.. idk what happend today.

[.Logic]

All I said was that I saw an improvement in his attitude towards others.. idk what happend today.

I know what you mean, this past week he certainly wasn't as 'bad' as he has been in the past.

[b@llz0r]

I reckon everyone should give RRR a break... Its not surprising that he is so defensive considering the many personal attacks he faces on a daily basis here... RE fanboyism, its basic human psycology to believe that you have made correct decisions in regards to purchases, you just need to look at the gear people own to understand why they support the brands/products they do. RRR isnt the first person to sing the praises of a certain manufacturer or product, albeit that he does it very well... but having a sales background you would expect that.

I dont know what went down with the admins to earn him a ban, so im gladly leaving that between RRR and them.

Im hoping that its just a bit of a slap on the wrist and all will be back to normal soon.

That worklog of his must be completed for the good of humanity.... 1000+ posts and he has only recently got all the gear together :D

:2cents:

[septim]

i don't know what majority of you think, but banning a person without telling him the offending post is somewhat lame...

for the past few weeks he has been courteous, curb down his prideful remarks, has almost no FTW, and been quite helpful to some noobies, despite repeated baiting by some other newbs...

[twwen2]

i don't know what majority of you think, but banning a person without telling him the offending post is somewhat lame...

for the past few weeks he has been courteous, curb down his prideful remarks, has almost no FTW, and been quite helpful to some noobies, despite repeated baiting by some other newbs...

Edit: It seems that he has been banned without notification...

I have to agree that he has been much better recently, and it's sad to lose him. At this point we don't know what happened, so the less speculation the better.

[Marvin_The_Martian]

for the past few weeks he has been courteous, curb down his prideful remarks, has almost no FTW, and been quite helpful to some noobies, despite repeated baiting by some other newbs...

Yup I agree.. but do you know something I don't?

[IanY]

They have chosen to lock my Personal Message box in retaliation.

Is that appropriate?

[twwen2]

They have chosen to lock my Personal Message box in retaliation.

Is that appropriate?

This is getting messy. Time for a mod in the know to set the record straight perhaps?:confused:

IanY, perhaps it's time to pick up the phone...

[IanY]

This is getting messy. Time for a mod in the know to set the record straight perhaps?:confused:

IanY, perhaps it's time to pick up the phone...


The nice part is that they would have to come to my home and cut my phone lines, and even then the office phone works. I still have my cell phone and my e-mail account. Thank God.

Err... didn't he just say that they have no beef with me? Then why cut off my PM access?

And then they'll ban me for complaining that I don't have PM access ?

[Marvin_The_Martian]

He ment I guess, pick up the phone and give someone a call :)

Keep your cool :up:

[twwen2]

The nice part is that they would have to come to my home and cut my phone lines, and even then the office phone works. I still have my cell phone and my e-mail account. Thank God.

Err... didn't he just say that they have no beef with me? Then why cut off my PM access?

And then they'll ban me for complaining that I don't have PM access ?

What i was suggesting is that perhaps you should get on the phone to one of the mods. Good luck.

[septim]

Andy, its just adding some Color or Spice to this thread. instead of just numbers and graphs and more numbers and graphs...

some humor and drama is all normal for me, daily selling in my store, i see those vendors with their daily lives and spats, nothing new there or here...
i don't let prideful or boastful post offend me, i like to play it fair and balance out my replies.

now 5vs1 everyday ganging up on R3 by some is somewhat unfair...

lighten up some...

[Movieman]

Gentlemen;
In light of all the recent events and the accompaning PM's I will be shortly changing my nic from Movieman to Dear Abby.:rofl:

[sniperbob]

Gentlemen;
In light of all the recent events and the accompaning PM's I will be shortly changing my nic from Movieman to Dear Abby.:rofl:

what about Dr. Phil??? :ROTF:

[Marvin_The_Martian]

What in the .... name would came after Dr. Phill?

[TedShred]

Yikes, saw that R3 had been banned when I got home from dinner last night.:eek: I have the utmost respect for the mods & admins, and the difficult job they have to keep XS the best tech forum on the webby, and I accept their decisions fully. I'm just very much hoping that there's some contemplation of getting him back into circulation in the very near future and, on that note, I just wanted to say that Joel is one of the guys who's been very helpful to nooby me trying to wade through all this mysterious H20 stuff. In return, unfortunately I can't do much but offer this my own shout out of support for the man. I very much hope to see him back in LC soon.

Peace:)

edit: and, yes, someday - soon:p: I will start putting what I've learned to work:D

[septim]

Gentlemen;
In light of all the recent events and the accompaning PM's I will be shortly changing my nic from Movieman to Dear Abby.

"Call me Dave"

hopefully/probably some of those supportive of R3...
and IanY's false telephone and address...
i'll offer you a jug of coffee to drink too... (i don't envy you reading till the morning...)


I hear what your saying, but when it turns hateful, vindictive and someone alludes to causing others harm because of some petty differences, then I say enough is enough and let the hammer fall.

andyc

agreed.

also if we have food critics, just think of IanY as XS critic as not everything pleases everybody... can't really win em all...

[Utnorris]

I hear what your saying, but when it turns hateful, vindictive and someone alludes to causing others harm because of some petty differences, then I say enough is enough and let the hammer fall.

andyc

I am not sure if you are saying R3 is vindictive and hateful or not, if so, when was he vindictive or hateful? He never made a personal attack unless someone attacked him first, simple. Certain individuals here baited him on a daily basis for whatever reasons, not sure if they wanted to get him banned or just wanted to get him worked up. As far as the "alluding to causing others harm", I am assuming you are talking about the whole BP vs. Feser deal and if so, there is an entire thread about that also. Regardless, I would think it would only be fair for the mods to explain to him, not us, why he was banned without warning. I just think that is common courtesy. They don't have to explain it to us, since this not a democracy, but I would think they should to R3. What I find ironic is that they only banned him from PM's and the liquid cooling section. If they really thought he was an issue then why not ban him from the entire forum. Call it conspiracy paranoia, but I think there is more to it than meets the eye. Anyway, I think there is a little too much drama on this site as it is. There are plenty of noobs and old members that answer legitimate questions with smart a** answers rather than with helpful answers. We all hate when someone posts "Is Thermaltake any good" and therefore the community blasts the poor smuck for asking the question rather than explaining why Thermaltake water cooling is a bad idea. I have gotten personally blasted for using Koolance fittings because of the "Koolance only uses aluminum and aluminum is bad" debate, none of which is relevant to their fittings. There are many reasons people build water cooling rigs and almost always money is a factor. I do agree this is an "Xtreme" site, but we have to remember there is a lot of mis-information floating around the web, I posted one yesterday as a good laugh, but to a noob to water cooling a legitimate site doing that review is more valid than someone's opinion on a forum. We need to remember we all started out new and not too many of us are "Rocket scientists" or "NASA" engineers.

[Xilikon]

Oh, R3 is banned ? That's what happen me each time I'm away :shakes:

I agree with others than banning without telling why is pushing a bit far. I assume he stepped on the wrong toes at one time and pissed off someone but I didn't really see something like that so I hope this get resolved pretty fast since I agree that he calmed down lately and is behaving as a good XS member despite lots of flame-baiting attempts by others against him.

[shellac]

FWIW, RRR did sent me a PM making sure I saw the funny Utnorris thread about TT. He didn't need to send the PM, I guess just wanted to make a gesture saying that 'all is cool'. I could be wrong, only a guess.

I bet this is all just a ploy to give RRR time to work on his rig without the need to feed his XS thread with updates.


I know what you mean, this past week he certainly wasn't as 'bad' as he has been in the past.

[2low4u]

Dude it's not really your place to comment on such things. From what I've been told, few people know or understand why RealRedRaider was banned and until we know [assuming we will ever know], just let it slide. There are no vendettas by mods on XS so I assume there is a solid reason why he was banned OR it was a mistake OR an over reaction. I don't understand why everyone is going ballistic until you know what happened. You can't think a XS staff decided to ban him because he say informed us of new BP/MM products right? Either way, I fail to see how this severely impacts on your XS experience and if you think the mods are over zealous, then there are plenty of other forums out there :). I don't really care to assess the actions of a XS staff member so don't ask me what I think.

Think about what you just said for 2 seconds!

1. It is my place to speak my mind if I so choose.

2. Exactly nobody knows why & neither does R3 unless he lied to me when I asked him last night. I was at work all day & will read the rest of this but honestly you or anyone else on here won't be telling me what to say or not say when something from my eyes doesn't seem right. I'd like to know who you even think you are in telling me it isn't my place? lol I don't think it was right with knowing what I did so I spoke out about it. Pretty simple if you ask me.

IanY no loss he barely had anything good to say about anything but R3 yeah he gave to this place & I for one learned quite abit from him & might just have made a new friend out of the deal. He didn't do anything that I was aware of at all to get himself banned so of course I spoke out for the guy!

[Utnorris]

What I said and you quoted has nothing to do with R3. Has nothing to do with what you referenced, so I don't have a clue as to your point is. :shrug:

Try reading the string of posts and quotes more carefully.

andyc

Well, I apologize if it did not, but since the subject was R3 and his banning, when you responded to Septim with what I quoted it came off as you were saying that R3 was hateful and vindictive. If that is not what you intended, my bad, but that is how I took it.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I guess I baited RRR here and there... but we came to terms with things lately through a discussion on his thread and I thought we were on friendly terms.

My take on RRR as a whole is this:

He received all too much praise for what he did here. For some reason people thought of him so highly but in all honesty he never did anything to deserve this status. His worklog was measly and he barely got anything done none of it was all that amazing (compare to coolmeister, virtualrain, Evil-98, tremolos, malik, and many others), at least 50% of the posts in that thread were spamming useless fodder. I give him credit for being a fast learner and spending a lot of money on parts but IMO this community has lost nothing with him gone. :2cents:


Obviously he did something very out of line to be banned, none of what I said above has anything to do with that I would imagine.

[MomijiTMO]

I'd like to know who you even think you are in telling me it isn't my place? lol I don't think it was right with knowing what I did so I spoke out about it. Pretty simple if you ask me.
Well you said -

It's Ludicrous to say the least! R3 is an asset to this community I don't care what anyone says! he had his beliefs sure but in no way did he deserve to be banned!
This pretty much says you think the mods actions are stupid and whether you intended it to be a 'the mods suck, RRR is awesome', that's how it is. You can't just say stuff like that. It just turds all over XS. If you don't know already, the usual path of events is someone gets banned, people kick up a stink and also get the hammer.


He received all to much praise for what he did here. For some reason people thought of him so highly but in all honesty he never did anything to deserve this status. His worklog was measly and he barely got anything done none of it was all that amazing (compare to coolmeister, virtualrain, Evil-98, tremolos, malik, and many others), at least 50% of the posts in that thread were spamming useless fodder.
Yeah I completely see it from your point of view from a water cooling 'great' which he is often grouped with. However, he is often one of the first to post in a nub wc question which is great because we don't have to. He offers solid advice with regards to a basic wc set up and nowadays doesn't start with "No EK :down::down::down:" or some other garbage. He has come a LOOOOOONG way and I think a lot of the newer people appreciate his high level of activity on this site as he responds quickly to their nub questions etc. So as a nub straightener, he is an asset to the LC sub forum :)

[septim]

well to some hot blooded guys out there, i suggest you cool off, think about what you're gonna post next for a few minutes or hours... then calmly post...

utnorris, i understand andy's frustration, as i that is how it is daily near my store front... but i don't really let these colorful dramatics/schemes and baiting affect me...
still i hope some form of explanation will be given, at least in PM to an unbiased person regarding R3's matter...

[Utnorris]

well to some hot blooded guys out there, i suggest you cool off, think about what you're gonna post next for a few minutes or hours... then calmly post...

utnorris, i understand andy's frustration, as i that is how it is daily near my store front... but i don't really let these colorful dramatics/schemes and baiting affect me...
still i hope some form of explanation will be given, at least in PM to an unbiased person regarding R3's matter...

:up:

[CyberDruid]

Without speulation I can say that just from my own POV there is a nasty edge to a lot of the posts from a pretty regular group of waterheads. They seem to be pompous and self absorbed type of posts...generally spending their wit defending themselves and attacking what they see as weaknesses in other's reasoning or response. It's drama plain and simple...a way to pass the day and amuse one another. The problems arise (IMO) with all the overinflated egos. There's a kind of Hubris that is really grating on those of us that didn't start doing this a few months ago. This pedestal sitting and gloating in the ill found praise of those entirely lacking in experience is more than annoying..it detracts from the spirit of the Forum. It's not about Excess...it's about Extreme. There is nothing Extreme about throwing a ton of money at a rig...although an Extreme rig may cost a ton of money...and I think all the Dr. LongDollars, and Wannabee Richboyz leave a fetid aroma for the rest of us to wade through just to try and glean a few kernels of wisdom from an LC thread.

In short it's been a drag.

[SiGfever]

Gentlemen,

This is a private forum and we do not know all the facts surrounding these issues. The mods here have the very tough job of overseeing more posts than we care to count. It is not an easy job and in most cases a thankless one. So much goes on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. All of the mods and admins that I have had dealings with have been very fair and patient people.

I do like R3 and Iany both and they also have very strong opinions about their views. I try to look beyond the post and see the overall person making it. A lot of us have strong opinions but some feel the need to vocalize it more than others. Each of us has something that we bring to this forum everyday that makes XS a very exciting place to visit. Sometimes tempers get heated and things are said or implied that can be taken wrong since we can not see the face of the person involved.

I have learned so much in so many areas from this great forum and the great people that frequent it that I hate to see any of them leave or have hard feelings amongst each other. This should be a place of learning and sharing of ideas not a place to prove who has the biggest epeen or widget. We were ALL noobs at one time and people coming here to learn because this forum is known for it's knowledge base can easily be scared off or worst affraid to ask a question for fear of being made a fool. We all learn something new everyday (if we are lucky) and should welcome the chance to pass on some of the knowledge that this and other forums has given us.

So lets put the past behind us because it IS gone, the future is yet to be and the here and now is all we truly have. We have in some ways become a dysfunctional family as of late and even the closest of relatives fight at times but life is too short to hold a grudge. I lift a glass and salute my fellow XS brethren and hope that we can make this section a fun place to visit again. :toast:

[Waterlogged]

Gentlemen,

This is a private forum and we do not know all the facts surrounding these issues. The mods here have the very tough job of overseeing more posts than we care to count. It is not an easy job and in most cases a thankless one. So much goes on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. All of the mods and admins that I have had dealings with have been very fair and patient people.

I do like R3 and Iany both and they also have very strong opinions about their views. I try to look beyond the post and see the overall person making it. A lot of us have strong opinions but some feel the need to vocalize it more than others. Each of us has something that we bring to this forum everyday that makes XS a very exciting place to visit. Sometimes tempers get heated and things are said or implied that can be taken wrong since we can not see the face of the person involved.

I have learned so much in so many areas from this great forum and the great people that frequent it that I hate to see any of them leave or have hard feelings amongst each other. This should be a place of learning and sharing of ideas not a place to prove who has the biggest epeen or widget. We were ALL noobs at one time and people coming here to learn because this forum is known for it's knowledge base can easily be scared off or worst affraid to ask a question for fear of being made a fool. We all learn something new everyday (if we are lucky) and should welcome the chance to pass on some of the knowledge that this and other forums has given us.

So lets put the past behind us because it IS gone, the future is yet to be and the here and now is all we truly have. We have in some ways become a dysfunctional family as of late and even the closest of relatives fight at times but life is too short to hold a grudge. I lift a glass and salute my fellow XS brethren and hope that we can make this section a fun place to visit again. :toast:

Make mine a milk please, my stomach is actin' up from too much Coke.:toast:

[Omastar]

Make mine a milk please, my stomach is actin' up from too much Coke.:toast:

Coke contains carbonic acid--just raises the pH of an upset stomach even more. Where did that lie ever even originate? :p:

[septim]

From back in the day when Coke was first made containing extracts from the Coca plant and still contained traces of cocaine. Coke was first advertised as medicinal and a pick me up. It is the coke syrup that is supposed help upset stomachs, not flat Coke as it's told today with the carbonic acid from carbonation left in.

andyc

we learn something new every day around here. :thumbs up:

[SiGfever]

From back in the day when Coke was first made containing extracts from the Coca plant and still contained traces of cocaine. Coke was first advertised as medicinal and a pick me up. It is the coke syrup that is supposed help upset stomachs, not flat Coke as it's told today with the carbonic acid from carbonation left in.

andyc

They didn't name it Coca-Cola for no reason. :toast2: :rofl:

As did Dr. Pepper, give you that pick me up at 10, 2 and 4.

[dengyong]

From back in the day when Coke was first made containing extracts from the Coca plant and still contained traces of cocaine. Coke was first advertised as medicinal and a pick me up. It is the coke syrup that is supposed help upset stomachs, not flat Coke as it's told today with the carbonic acid from carbonation left in.

andyc

Colas still contain phosphoric acid, flat or not. :)

[Kayin]

Funniest of all, I didn't even notice RRR was banned. I was trying to get IFMU sorted on a VGA block.

I'll say this. I have been a mod with banhammer on two very large forums. I have seen numerous circumstances where the community at large has no idea WHAT goes on behind closed doors, and there are instances where a peson has said or done something in private that is just way beyond banworthy, and they get it, and the community is mystified. What's done is done, the mods I know have good reason, and I'm not sure I have to know that reason (Doesn't mean I'm not curious, RRR was always rather polite to me.)

Maybe it's the hard transition from way too enthusiastic about water to attempted block maker that's clouding my eyes on what happened, but I missed a lot of it. Fanboyism I saw, a bit of rudeness I saw, but some of these things I never noticed. All I have to say is thank God the mods restored some order around here a little while back. It's been a new site, honestly.

[septim]

its just to unfair to think that you could get banned without notification of what post offended whom...


Maybe it's the hard transition from way too enthusiastic about water to attempted block maker that's clouding my eyes on what happened, but I missed a lot of it. Fanboyism I saw, a bit of rudeness I saw, but some of these things I never noticed. All I have to say is thank God the mods restored some order around here a little while back. It's been a new site, honestly.

agreed with you here.

changing R3's attitude took a lot of will and self refining for him, and we saw results. he has been trying very hard for the past few weeks, it is really sad that we won't see results of all those parts he bought and waited for assembled to functionality...

seldom you see a guy who works hard for his money, reads up on whats best for him, then buys em by the volume and is happy about it.
for the past few weeks, often i see lots of envious people of this guy and makes fun of him, naturally he'll be defensive...
in a lot of threads he post in, there are a lot of trolls following him, an almost everyday normal thing for him...

I would lobby to unban RRR. or at least tell us if its just vacation time or Perma ban...

[Utnorris]

It is true that this site has gotten nasty at times. People will post a question and then get bashed because some members feel it is a ridiculous question. It is true at times R3 promoted certain products that he had ordered, MM, BP, etc. However, I have seen a lot folks do this, including myself, because when you find a product that works for you it is natural you will think it will work for everyone. We sometimes forget that we are not all alike, nor do we think alike. What got my goat most recently was the "Sidewinders" thread. R3 posted that they would be carrying the Aqua blocks and then some folks got on there and started saying he was working for Sidewinders and that the thread was a promotion thread at which point R3 defended himself. I looked at it this way, if we can start a thread about one site, we should be able to start a thread about any site. When the "Why I love Petra's" thread was started R3 came in there and posted about Sidewinders and I told him that was not the place to talk about Sidewinders, that he needed to start a thread for Sidewinders if he felt so passionate about them. When he did, he got called a Fanboy. When he recommends MM to people or BP to people, both which he owns, he gets called a Fanboy. When Naekuh (sorry, just an example) recommends Koolance or I recommend Koolance to people for their fittings, no one accuses us of being Fanboys. Granted, you always get someone that will bring up the aluminum debate, but when done properly it is a good thing. From where I sit it looks like R3 was singled out for these reasons. I don't care what the reasons are, my main objective is that folks get treated fairly and if you are going to ban someone for that then I can rattle off a bunch of folks in here that should be banned for being EK Fanboys, BP Fanboys, Swiftech Fanboys, Feser Fanboys, Thermochill Fnaboys, Danger Den Fanboys and so on, including myself. Should we all be banned? Well what about the abrasiveness, go take a look at the "Why do you guys still support EK" thread and then talk to me about abrasiveness, even Movieman got into the act on bashing the OP. Whether it was justified or not, the OP asked a legitimate question, although he could have been clearer and more tactful, he still did not deserve to be bashed for asking the question. This is just my opinion and I am done talking about this. I only hope that there will be a reconsideration on the ban, maybe with conditions if the mods feel it is necessary, but still should be looked at.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

It is true that this site has gotten nasty at times. People will post a question and then get bashed because some members feel it is a ridiculous question. It is true at times R3 promoted certain products that he had ordered, MM, BP, etc. However, I have seen a lot folks do this, including myself, because when you find a product that works for you it is natural you will think it will work for everyone. We sometimes forget that we are not all alike, nor do we think alike. What got my goat most recently was the "Sidewinders" thread. R3 posted that they would be carrying the Aqua blocks and then some folks got on there and started saying he was working for Sidewinders and that the thread was a promotion thread at which point R3 defended himself. I looked at it this way, if we can start a thread about one site, we should be able to start a thread about any site. When the "Why I love Petra's" thread was started R3 came in there and posted about Sidewinders and I told him that was not the place to talk about Sidewinders, that he needed to start a thread for Sidewinders if he felt so passionate about them. When he did, he got called a Fanboy. When he recommends MM to people or BP to people, both which he owns, he gets called a Fanboy. When Naekuh (sorry, just an example) recommends Koolance or I recommend Koolance to people for their fittings, no one accuses us of being Fanboys. Granted, you always get someone that will bring up the aluminum debate, but when done properly it is a good thing. From where I sit it looks like R3 was singled out for these reasons. I don't care what the reasons are, my main objective is that folks get treated fairly and if you are going to ban someone for that then I can rattle off a bunch of folks in here that should be banned for being EK Fanboys, BP Fanboys, Swiftech Fanboys, Feser Fanboys, Thermochill Fnaboys, Danger Den Fanboys and so on, including myself. Should we all be banned? Well what about the abrasiveness, go take a look at the "Why do you guys still support EK" thread and then talk to me about abrasiveness, even Movieman got into the act on bashing the OP. Whether it was justified or not, the OP asked a legitimate question, although he could have been clearer and more tactful, he still did not deserve to be bashed for asking the question. This is just my opinion and I am done talking about this. I only hope that there will be a reconsideration on the ban, maybe with conditions if the mods feel it is necessary, but still should be looked at.

It's important to realize that he was most likely not banned for anything related to fanboy-ism but a direct offense in another situation (public or private who knows) that put a mod over the edge.

no, no one should be banned for fanboyism but I think we can all agree that R3 was a bit more abrasive in that manner than others.

[fox3]

It is true that this site has gotten nasty at times. People will post a question and then get bashed because some members feel it is a ridiculous question.

This sorta happened to me here. And with some heavy hitters at that when it came to too much flow in a loop. But for the most part it was done respectfuly and to correct some misconceptions was thort I might of had. No chest thumping. I still have my beliefs but know there are other philosophys out there to consider, and I will.

It is the cheerleaders that I feel are a problem. Words are posted and then "one" will jump on that and try to get a laugh at anothers expense. Things are said, toes get stepped on and then posts get deleted, no one gets to see the king when he had no clothes. Not talking about RealRedRaider here BTW. Still the majority of the forum is unaware unless it is brought up.

RRR seems to be a confident stand up guy and that might bother some. He did seem to be less exhuberant the last week but I still enjoy his perspective. I also was interested how his build would work out and hope his "ban" is just a tempory warning.

[coolmiester]

Has anyone PM'd DarthBeavis as he may consider coming back now??

[kinghong1970]

Y'all need to just move your hands from your keyboards,
turn off your computers... just for a while..
go out the door...
take a deep breath..

and have some
Boom Dee Yaa Daa Time... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5BxymuiAxQ)

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Has anyone PM'd DarthBeavis as he may consider coming back now??

I'll see if I can get him on the line over at DD forums :)

[dopestuff]

Y'all need to just move your hands from your keyboards,
turn off your computers... just for a while..
go out the door...
take a deep breath..

and have some
Boom Dee Yaa Daa Time... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5BxymuiAxQ)
great song kingkong :up: that almost let me wet my pants :rofl:

and yeah people need to lighten up this place if for fun and we all come here in our free will (ok some not anymore because of the addiction like me ;) )
but in the end we are all here just to share our passion and have a good time and nobody comes here to get "yelled" uppon (for that part god invented girlfriends ;) )

greatings to you all, dope

[[XC] riptide]

Move on....

The reasons were solid, and peer reviewed.

[Sadasius]

Would it be wicked of me to say....YAY! :clap: No need to convince me it was a right decision that is for sure. :up:

[CyberDruid]

Has anyone PM'd DarthBeavis as he may consider coming back now??

I emailed him and that seemed to work :D

[Kayin]

I did not doubt that it was solid AND peer reviewed. As I've said, I have experience in this.

However, many have wondered, was it a short trip, or was it a permanent vacation, if I may ask? While I wonder about the reason as well, I do not believe it is meant for public knowledge. If you meant it for such, you would have said it.

[Freaky Freezer]

Without speulation I can say that just from my own POV there is a nasty edge to a lot of the posts from a pretty regular group of waterheads. They seem to be pompous and self absorbed type of posts...generally spending their wit defending themselves and attacking what they see as weaknesses in other's reasoning or response. It's drama plain and simple...a way to pass the day and amuse one another. The problems arise (IMO) with all the overinflated egos. There's a kind of Hubris that is really grating on those of us that didn't start doing this a few months ago. This pedestal sitting and gloating in the ill found praise of those entirely lacking in experience is more than annoying..it detracts from the spirit of the Forum. It's not about Excess...it's about Extreme. There is nothing Extreme about throwing a ton of money at a rig...although an Extreme rig may cost a ton of money...and I think all the Dr. LongDollars, and Wannabee Richboyz leave a fetid aroma for the rest of us to wade through just to try and glean a few kernels of wisdom from an LC thread.

In short it's been a drag.

These are words of a scholar and a gentelmen in explaining what was going on here. Also from my own experience, almost every post from RRR and IanY were written in a manner to subtly offend or piss someone off. Then the rest of there clan/flunkies would come out of the wood work to pounce on whoever tried to defend themself or call them out on their snubby little comments. They offended and turned off just as many "noobs" from this forum that they helped.

And CD's analysis of the whole "I'm the Donald Trump of watercooling and your computer sucks unless you spend $15,000 on it" was very annoying and just plain un-helpful to newcomers to watercooling. I can't imagine how many more members there would be to watercoling and this forum had it not been for that little "clic" basically telling newcomers that spending $250-$500 on there watercooling parts would only produce "average" results that were no better than air-cooling.

I literally stopped coming here a few weeks ago, only checking my older subscribed thread for new comments. I will definitely be visting much more frequently now that they are gone.

[NaeKuh]

Guys..

R3 is a friend of mine.

The mods/admins here are also really good friends of mine.

So lets not make things worse and dig up dead skeletons from the closet please.

Just DROP the matter regarding R3, its a heart ache to both parties. In a sense, no side won, both sides really lost.

So just DROP making fun of R3.

The issue is over, and its passed. Why go back in time and repeat talking about the mistakes, when they were already resolved?

[IanY]

Who else has been banned?

[NaeKuh]

And CD's analysis of the whole "I'm the Donald Trump of watercooling and your computer sucks unless you spend $15,000 on it" was very annoying and just plain un-helpful to newcomers to watercooling. I can't imagine how many more members there would be to watercoling and this forum had it not been for that little "clic" basically telling newcomers that spending $250-$500 on there watercooling parts would only produce "average" results that were no better than air-cooling.


And i find it funny how when theres an alu thread, and people are indeed throwing money away by mixing metals, we dont flame the person who created the thread?
How is the situation any different?

R3 was strong on his vocal views, but he did bring about a lot of good stuff to the forum.

First off, who has closer relationship with vincent? Anyone wonder why vincent is missing to begin with?
Also, Ben, R3 was very close to ben, in fact if i wanted a favor from vincent or ben id pobably go though R3.

Can you Newbies say you have that many connections already associated in the short time it took him to get it?

Regardless of how much money he spent [you wanna count pennies? cuz i probably topple R3 by a factor of 2-3x in spending], the fact is he had connections. You wanna make more fun of inflated egos?

Try mine. However i back up my statements with proof, and i think i made quite a name for myself now that martin only proved what i said was true from the beginning.

So Guys STOP AND DROP THE R3 Matter, b4 we bring drama back into this forum.

Its OVER, and RESOLVED. Now its up to both partys to accept the punishment and move on. Thats all there is to it.

Dont justify and annalyze cuz it doesnt matter to you at all. The decission was handed down by the mods, if they want to talk about it, then its up to them, but i doubt they will.

So dont speculate, or second guess, or even analyze, you guys are turning into little 13 yr old girls who gossip behind people's backs, and its really disgusting.

[IanY]

Naekuh,

Let it be. There's little point in getting yourself all worked up about it. There's no punishment and its no loss on either end. Just move on.

Although he was paid quite a compliment.. wow..

[NaeKuh]

i want my old forum back.

is that too much to ask?

I might just stick to WCG only if we cant drop this issue.

:\

We have a very simple rules and code in WCG section.

Its really simple, and has kept the guys clean and problem free.

Rule 1:
Egos left outside unless you get personally attacked.

Rule 2:
Personal attacks and you get kicked outside WCG or a phone call from DAVE.

Rule 3:
Respect others, to one a penny = a million dollars, so view others in there eyes not yours.

Rule 4:
Avoid the phone call from DAVE

Rule 5:
DONT PULL FART PLUME's FINGER

Rule 6:
No Teddy bashing or phicks will slaughter you.

Rule 7:
The answer to all questions is SHEEP!


Simple rules have kept wcg in check so long... We should adopt it and learn from them.

[IanY]

Naekuh,

Its not possible. That forum is gone, whether you like it or not. Whether anyone likes it or not, RRR is gone for good. Its a decision that has been made and there's no point questioning it, regardless of how you feel about it.

If you are referring to the forum before RRR, then its not possible either. You'll have to influence ten times the number of people for that to happen.

They are not going to change their minds. Their language is firm.

As to the ensuing nastiness, it cannot be helped either, and it is not going away very easily.

There is no point for you to get all worked up about it. It'll only consume you. For your sake, stop worrying about RRR. He's a big boy and can manage himself.

And this isn't WCG and will never be WCG. Not everyone wants a call or appreciates a call from Dave. Not everybody wants to be friends with everyone else in XS and not everyone specifically wants to be your friend. This is just some internet forum.

[NaeKuh]

i dont want to get my hands dirty in that manner.

Thats why im really trying to stay neutral.

I see the admins's possition, DB is a good friend of mine.

I also see R3's excitement and wanting need to let everyone know, i was there a long time ago.

Im not picking sides on this issue.

What im picking sides on tho is that this whole issue should just be kept behind doors.
You guys had 1 page to say your peace.
Do you really need to strech 5 more pages with a person's fault?



Lets get back to our normal programing.

Skinnee is getting a new koolance block from me to test once i get my samples.

I am building the most massive external unit labeled oracle soon and will post a WL. (2xDDC-2 + 2xDDC-3.2) :D

I am also in the middle working with bei fei designing custom blocks which will be for sale though him and possibly gary at Sidewinder for
ASUS P6T-Deluxe board. NB/SB single block. Mosfet Single Block.

And lets get some real I7 thermals done so we can repick who the winner is.

:up:

This is all i am hoping to accomplish b4 the end of this year.

[Sadasius]

Rule 5:
DONT PULL FART PLUME's FINGER



Yeah that is a very good rule...:rofl: I will not do that again!

[IanY]

DB has been my friend quite sometime before I knew RRR, and I signed up for DB's build logs elsewhere before they began being posted in XS. All you guys are friends. There is no need for anyone to tear each other apart.


I also see R3's excitement and wanting need to let everyone know, i was there a long time ago.

Honestly, don't you see the not-so-subtle elitism in that statement that RRR is so often accused of? The main problem I have with this whole affair is that the accusations lobbied at RRR are in several ways hypocritical because its rampant across XS. The pot shouldn't call the kettle black, especially when the pots have been around longer than the kettle.

Another thing. I don't know what people don't understand about the concept of "permanent." RRR's access to Liquid Cooling within XS has been permanently revoked.

[Kaldor]

Ive been a long time lurker here at XS. I think I read these forums for at least a year before I even signed up for a user ID. I dont currently water cool anything, unless your counting Buds in a cooler, although that may belong in the chilled section, doh!

However the knowledge I have picked up from these forums has been pretty helpful in helping my friends out and furthering my own PC knowledge. Ive helped my buddy pick out parts for his WC loop just the other just from what Ive read on these forums. Ive taken a few ideas Ive seen and spun them a little bit and used them in my own creations. I frequently refer people to these forums if they need some info on something out of the ordinary. Just tell them to run a search on whatever they are looking for and they will probably find it.

Personally I could care less if people spend $10k or $1k on a PC. I think I have about $1500 in my current machine. People like R3 that do monster builds certainly inspire some people to push the envelope as to what CAN be done. Martin has done some outstanding testing which has educated me an incredible amount as what I want to do when I do finally make the jump to water this winter. I enjoy people like Gabe, Dean, Eddy, and remaining company reps that will come here and post up a new product and field questions about it quite often before it even hits mainstream sites. I tend to keep to myself and just read, sorting the fact from the fiction or friction as it sometimes is here and post my thoughts only when they seem valid or helpful for the discussion. What I really like is some of the true innovation and pushing that has been done that influences manufacturers to make changes for the better of the hobby. It impresses me to no end how much influence a simple forum can have on a manufacturer.

Its unfortunate that sometimes people need a little smack down to get back to reality. Heres to a few more years of good reading and maybe actually learning something every now and then!

:toast:

[Kayin]

Following suit with NaeKuh, I should be finalizing Mithril and hopefully pulling the cover off my new block materials.

I can say confidently that nobody has ever played with this stuff.

[skinnee]

Variable DC power supply arrives tomorrow...let the official skinnee labs D5 pump testing begin!

[DarthBeavis]

It's Ludicrous to say the least! R3 is an asset to this community I don't care what anyone says! he had his beliefs sure but in no way did he deserve to be banned! I can name other pompous people that would deserve it much more than R3 ever would have but they have since left. I've been on alot of sites over the years & this is the first I've seen anything like this happen. :down:

can one be pompous and gererous at the same time? :)
Enjoy the TribalOverkill resevoir bud.

[Utnorris]

can one be pompous and gererous at the same time? :)
Enjoy the TribalOverkill resevoir bud.

What the hell does this mean? Did you give 2low4u a tribal res? If so, are you holding that over his head because he spoke out. I thought this was a dead issue since nothing was going to change the outcome, but if you guys really want to start it back up,well........................

[DarthBeavis]

And i find it funny how when theres an alu thread, and people are indeed throwing money away by mixing metals, we dont flame the person who created the thread?
How is the situation any different?

R3 was strong on his vocal views, but he did bring about a lot of good stuff to the forum.

First off, who has closer relationship with vincent? Anyone wonder why vincent is missing to begin with?
Also, Ben, R3 was very close to ben, in fact if i wanted a favor from vincent or ben id pobably go though R3.

Can you Newbies say you have that many connections already associated in the short time it took him to get it?

Regardless of how much money he spent [you wanna count pennies? cuz i probably topple R3 by a factor of 2-3x in spending], the fact is he had connections. You wanna make more fun of inflated egos?

Try mine. However i back up my statements with proof, and i think i made quite a name for myself now that martin only proved what i said was true from the beginning.

So Guys STOP AND DROP THE R3 Matter, b4 we bring drama back into this forum.

Its OVER, and RESOLVED. Now its up to both partys to accept the punishment and move on. Thats all there is to it.

Dont justify and annalyze cuz it doesnt matter to you at all. The decission was handed down by the mods, if they want to talk about it, then its up to them, but i doubt they will.

So dont speculate, or second guess, or even analyze, you guys are turning into little 13 yr old girls who gossip behind people's backs, and its really disgusting.


YOU are important enough to contact Vincent or Ben yourself dude . . .or any other company (such as Danger Den) . . .not commenting about the person mentioned in your thread . . .just wanted to point out you should NOT sell yourself short! That goes for the rest of you senior XS guys (UtNorris, IandY, McCoffey . . .) . . .

[Sadasius]

What the hell does this mean? Did you give 2low4u a tribal res? If so, are you holding that over his head because he spoke out. I thought this was a dead issue since nothing was going to change the outcome, but if you guys really want to start it back up,well........................

Dude....What possible good can come from this? Can we try just a little harder here!

[DarthBeavis]

What the hell does this mean? Did you give 2low4u a tribal res? If so, are you holding that over his head because he spoke out. I thought this was a dead issue since nothing was going to change the outcome, but if you guys really want to start it back up,well........................


Just pointing out you should not judge someone bud . . .that is it . . .I don't hold stuff over people's head (I did know he was a big supporter of certain members whom I disgreed with but he also is a big fan of TO's work so I helped him out of water-cooling non-ghey brotherly love) . . .and I just saw this thread . . .I have NO position on anything that happened in my abscence . . .God knows I had to get my own attitude straightened out before coming back . . .

If someone says outright I should have been banned then I will address it . . .and hope to bury the hatchet by cementing a friendship . . .like I said . . .I recognize my attitude previously sucked . . .moving on . . .please forgive me if it sounded like I want to necromance a dead issue bud

[IanY]

Just bury the hachet and move on. Nothing good can come out of further discussion.

[MomijiTMO]

Well I'm not a flamer but it really must be addressed. I've seen how DB acts at [H]. I distinctly recall when some dude had a skulltrail rig, DB came in as said, "Here is mine" and posted images of the Danger Den Skulltrail case. The dude then said something like, "WTH, you don't have to compare?" followed by some colourful language. DB then said something negative about his pc and yeah . . . full on flame for a page. DB comes here to also post his ambitious builds and we praise him so. Things really got out of hand with the MM publicity in one of his builds and things were done that really should not have. Consequently contacts weren't so friendly.

DB has great ideas however it doesn't mean he is full of confidence like RRR is. I make the comparison to not see my self as some superior being, but to maybe give some my insight into DB. Don't take him the wrong way. The same can be made about RRR. He is full of confidence but his posts are not meant to be seen as aggressive like some people seem to interpret them.

So take a look from rose coloured glasses and have fun. Think about the poster and their apparent personality and use this to understand why they do what they do and say what they say. Few people here intentionally troll.

[DarthBeavis]

Well I'm not a flamer but it really must be addressed. I've seen how DB acts at [H]. I distinctly recall when some dude had a skulltrail rig, DB came in as said, "Here is mine" and posted images of the Danger Den Skulltrail case. The dude then said something like, "WTH, you don't have to compare?" followed by some colourful language. DB then said something negative about his pc and yeah . . . full on flame for a page. DB comes here to also post his ambitious builds and we praise him so. Things really got out of hand with the MM publicity in one of his builds and things were done that really should not have. Consequently contacts weren't so friendly.

DB has great ideas however it doesn't mean he is full of confidence like RRR is. I make the comparison to not see my self as some superior being, but to maybe give some my insight into DB. Don't take him the wrong way. The same can be made about RRR. He is full of confidence but his posts are not meant to be seen as aggressive like some people seem to interpret them.

So take a look from rose coloured glasses and have fun. Think about the poster and their apparent personality and use this to understand why they do what they do and say what they say.


That situtation at H was one of my more embrassing moments . . .I don't know what got into me but I had a wild hair up my rear end . . .had one here as well just before I left . . .anyways . . .please do not pull me into discussion about others . . .I create my own problems well enough and do not need to compound others' problems by my mistakes . . .I just want to come here and share my builds and perhaps help a little if I can . . .other than that . . .enjoy the scenery . . .we all have the same passion otherwise we would not be here . . .let's just focus on that ;)

[Sadasius]

That situtation at H was one of my more embrassing moments . . .I don't know what got into me but I had a wild hair up my rear end . . .had one here as well just before I left . . .anyways . . .please do not pull me into discussion about others . . .I create my own problems well enough and do not need to compound others' problems by my mistakes . . .I just want to come here and share my builds and perhaps help a little if I can . . .other than that . . .enjoy the scenery . . .we all have the same passion otherwise we would not be here . . .let's just focus on that ;)

Well said DB. I am pretty sure we all had our moments at one time or other on forums. I know I have as well. Important thing is to learn from them as you apparently have done.

[NaeKuh]

ive had clashes with DB.

Trust me, everyone have there off days.
Later we appologized, and things have been great between us. :up:

DB doesnt however go inside a thread and force someone to get something.
He will show off, and when people question his experience thats when he flips.
People ignore his recomendation, he just walks away.

But not once in any of his threads did he push a product on us.

He blings a product on us, but never forces it to us.

Enough calling people out. Why dont we talk about what we intend to do in the future. Anyone have an intersting future project coming up?

[MomijiTMO]

That situtation at H was one of my more embrassing moments . . .I don't know what got into me but I had a wild hair up my rear end . . .had one here as well just before I left . . .anyways . . .please do not pull me into discussion about others . . .I create my own problems well enough and do not need to compound others' problems by my mistakes . . .I just want to come here and share my builds and perhaps help a little if I can . . .other than that . . .enjoy the scenery . . .we all have the same passion otherwise we would not be here . . .let's just focus on that ;)

Of course we all have our moments. For example, in the bunny thread I posted a rude picture that should not be viewed by a minor. Errr brain fart? Oh yeah :p:

I don't think my previous post can be seen as an attack so I made sure to make it clear in the first sentence. I see it as a defence of you as DB. If it must be known, from the little bit of information I know about you, I think you are a top guy who has one of the hardest jobs [stay at home dad right?]. Not only do you have the most difficult job known to humankind, but you also do these crazy pc builds on the side XD.

[NaeKuh]

No more calling people out!!!

Seriously... let the past stay in the past!

Look my future block rendered by Bei Fei. If you guys be nice i'll leak out more pictures in its design.

BEI FEI PRODUCT!
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/Mazar_2006/mosfetblock.jpg

Lets play nice!

[DarthBeavis]

ive had clashes with DB.

Trust me, everyone have there off days.
Later we appologized, and things have been great between us. :up:

DB doesnt however go inside a thread and force someone to get something.
He will show off, and when people question his experience thats when he flips.
People ignore his recomendation, he just walks away.

But not once in any of his threads did he push a product on us.

He blings a product on us, but never forces it to us.

Enough calling people out. Why dont we talk about what we intend to do in the future. Anyone have an intersting future project coming up?


Getting TRI-SLI on separate loops so I can not dump a load of heat from one GPU to the next . . .w00t. Wish I could afford (or had the energy to nag a sponsor for) the new Intel proc and one of the X58 SLI-ready mobos for it . . .

also . . .I am rebuildng my Globe PC as Crucial/Lexar apparently wants it in their booth at CES 2009 . . .working on pulling the new hardware now (should be latest and greatest) . . .also added fiber optic cities and will have Smooth Creations do some wild air-brushing of the continents . . .

[DarthBeavis]

No more calling people out!!!

Seriously... let the past stay in the past!

Look my future block rendered by Bei Fei. If you guys be nice i'll leak out more pictures in its design.

BEI FEI PRODUCT!
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/Mazar_2006/mosfetblock.jpg

Lets play nice!
mmm, mofset block? yummy