Need a Couple Details [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

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Cutless009

09-17-2008, 09:33 AM

Ok so I'm going to be building my first WC rig, and I want to do this right, semi hardcore-ish. My goals are as follows:

Achieve a decent overclock (4ghz would be nice, but I dont expect it out of a 2.4ghz processor, Im aiming for 3.5ghz more realistically.)

Keep the rig as quiet as possible.

Build a WC System that will be future-ready without any need for major upgrades anytime soon.

Im not new to overclocking or cooling mods, just water cooling (god theres so much to know, Ive searched these forums for hours). My old rig that I upgraded from was an AMD 4400+ Kentsfield 2.2ghz that I clocked to 2.6ghz fully stable on stock cooling with only a .125 overvolt on the cpu 12v rail, running on 4gb mushkin DDR.

but its time to step up my game.

First the rig its going into:

CPU: Intel Q6600 G0 Stepping Quad-Core
GPU: Dual EVGA 8800GT in SLI
RAM: 4x2gb DDR3 1600 (2x Mushkin 2x2gb dual channel kits)
MB: EVGA FTW 790i
Case: Silverstone TJ07
PSU: Zalman ZM1000-HP 1000watt Continuous 1250watt maximum peak, 80+ Ceritified, SLI/Crossfire certified.
Drives: 4x500gb using onboard Raid 5

The parts I am looking at getting:

Pump: Swiftech MCP655 (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=19862)
Rad: Thermochill PA 120.3 (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=21454)
Res: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5746/ex-res-120/XSPC_Passive_500mm_Reservoir_-_Black.html?id=7QBZXchF&mv_pc=772
CPU Sink: Swiftech Apogee GTZ (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=32248)
GPU Sinks: Koolance VID-282 x2 for SLI (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5488/ex-blc-338/Koolance_VID-282_Vid_Liquid_Cooling_VGA_Block_-_GeForce_8800GTXUltra.html?id=7QBZXchF&mv_pc=775) + Koolance SLI metal connector (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=22503)
Ram Sinks: 4x Koolance RAM-35 w/sliding nozzles (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7039/koo-99/Koolance_RAM-35_Single_Memory_Liquid_Cooler_No_Fittings.html?id =7QBZXchF&mv_pc=773) (What is you guys' opinion on these? Is water-cooling your ram just a gimmick? I notice my ram gets very hot at the moment just running at 2.5ghz, like it will give you a nice 1st degree burn if you touch it, and its not over-volted at all, and with the hardcore overclock I want to go for I figured this would be a good idea).
Tubing: PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing (http://www.ncixus.com/products/index.php?sku=28146) (I was thinking to order 10 feet of it since this is my first build, and there are a lot of components, do you think I should get more or less?)
NB Sink: I was going to water cool my NB, until I was reading about the negative effects it has on performance in the loop, however, does it have any benefits on cooling that would make it worth while for a hardcore overclock?)

other than a general opinion on the parts list, an answer to the following would be very nice:

1. Are there any parts Im missing? (other than connections/barbs)
2. What kind of connection is better, compression or barb?
3. A friend of mine told me that 3/8's was better because it caused more pressure in the lines and allowed you to use more restrictive sinks, is there any truth to this, or should I stick with 1/2"?
4. Am I going to need a 2nd radiator?
5. Am I going to need a 2nd pump?
6. Any problems I should expect?
7. How much ambient airflow does the case need to keep the drives/mosfets/NB/SB cool?
8. Can I just use the fans that come with the case for the radiator, or would you suggest that I get some low-flow fans?

thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me to point me in the right direction. Great forum you guys have here, and I look forward to learning much from you pros. :up:

Giannis86

09-17-2008, 10:05 AM

1. It looks about right, however here are some things to consider.
It all more or less depends on the type of fans you want to use. If you can put up with some good high speed fans you could get away with the pa120.3 with good temps. If silence is more of a concern you could get 2 MCR320 (or 1mcr320 and a mcr220) rads instead of a PA120.3 (price of 2 mcrs should be around the price of 1 pa120.3) if you have the space. Another alternative would be to just get a HWlabs 480GTX..With some decent fans that should take care of anything you throw into it

2. I doubt you will notice any difference. Compression seems to be SLIGHTLY more restrictive in some cases. However they do have a bling factor and ease of use & safety.

3. Tubing size makes almost no difference in temps. However i remember that a testing showed that 1/2" and 7/16 tubing were the best (tenths of a degree difference). I also remember that Martin said in one of his reviews that 1/2" barbs have a lower pressure drop. So you could use 1/2" barbs with 1/2" or 7/16" tubing.

4. See 1.

5. Not necessarily. You could make 1 loop but then you would have to replace those gpu blocks. I would get the MCW60 instead as it features low pressure drop. You could accordingly get some Iandy 8800GT memmory sinks to go along with it (or any other type of memory sinks). I am not quite sure if that configuration would fit in terms of space though. Maybe someone else can elaborate on that.

6. It is important that you take your time and leak test the system first. You can never know...

7. I am not sure how the 790 goes in terms of heat production but in most cases you should be fine with the typical front intake, rear exhaust fan configuration. (i would make sure that cables are organized nicely in your case so that there is less airflow restriction.

8. For fans i would recommend some S-Flex F series. They perform good and last long too.

BreeSpree

09-17-2008, 02:30 PM

I would consider using a Fuzion V2 in place of the Apogee GTZ. I love Swiftech, but it seems that this block has some problems with corrosion and air bubbles. Also, I would consider switching to 7/16 Tygon. 10 feet will cover it, but if you mess up, you may have to order another 5 feet. I say buy 15 feet in case you do some wrong cuts. After all, once you cut tubing it's not like you can just put it back together. I would say to NOT use Koolance. They have the most corrosion problems (They use steel sometimes >_>), and for the price you man as well dish out more for a high quality Ek FC block. Watercooling RAM is not a gimmick, but does not neccessarily help. You are much better off using a RAM fan. You chould cool the NB in your overclocking. I understand the 790i FTW is not a reference design, but I hear the BP all in one chipset block may be able to fit it. I would wait until that comes out. And you won't be able to volt overclock that Q6600 to 4 ghz without boiling your coolant.

Giannis86

09-17-2008, 02:40 PM

AndrewZorn

09-17-2008, 02:41 PM

I always order at least 2x as much tubing as I think I need. It takes care of mistakes, and gives you enough to rebuild the whole thing (when you have to replace liquid) without spending time cleaning tubing.

hellcamino

09-17-2008, 03:05 PM

Most of your questions look to be answered pretty well and I would also say to draw it up and guesstimate how much tubing you will need and then buy twice that much, if you make a mistake you have spare tubing and if you decide your original loop design won't work for w/e reason you have tubing on hand as opposed to waiting for shipping.

Waterlogged

09-17-2008, 09:42 PM

*sigh* :shakes:

Nobody has mentioned it up to this point so I'll do it. Lose the res (it's aluminum), the Koolance GFX cooler (it also has aluminum) and the RAM cooler (it's just plain worthless).

Replace the res with either an EK or Swiftech Micro.

Go with either Danger Den or EK on the GFX card.

If you must cool the RAM, use either the OCZ or Corsair RAM coolers or point a 120 at them.

hellcamino

09-17-2008, 09:55 PM

Cutless009

09-19-2008, 12:22 PM

Wow thanks for all the info guys.

@Waterlogged: Aluminum = bad? (just wondering why? is it the mixed metals = no thing?). I really like that res, especially the fact that its a passive cooler, I really want to keep my water temps as low as possible, or does that matter? What if I got it the inside copper plated?

Overall I want to build a killer system, I want to build it right the first time if at all possible, with good-quality, good looking, good performing parts. I'm an artist (with a degree at that), and I've always been into computers, and I really want to combine the two into making this system as beautiful as possible. I'm already talking to a local shop about a custom paint job for the case and a few other parts, and I'm getting all of my connections copper-plated already (I just love the look of shiny copper on black)

Also, I want to go a little nuts and water cool everything, on the motherboard, NB/SB, mosfets, and cpu, as well as my VGA cards. I wouldnt mind replacing the koolance WCing ram coolers with an OCZ ram cooler, they look alright and I could get it copper plated as well, would probably look pretty sexy.

Based on all of this, can somebody recommend sexy parts that are functional as well to cool all of that? I'm really having a hard time narrowing down what blocks to use (the only one Im mostly sure about right now is that I want to go EK on the graphics cards).

Sorry for all the questions, I've been researching for two weeks now, and all of this is very overwhelming to me, as I have no experience whatsoever in this area, and I'm wanting to build a high end water cooling system.

I'm not against dropping about $1,000 on parts if necessary, as long as the parts are quality.

also a couple more questions.

1. With that many blocks Im guessing I'll need to run a dual loop system?

2. Do you think I'll be able to fit all of this inside my TJ07? (all internal, and I know my way around saws and heavy duty case mods, IE I dont mind cutting away at stuff to make it functional, and I know how to make it look nice and finish it properly, Im already planning on completely removing the internal 3.5 bays and possibly mounting them elsewhere, and cutting down/modifying the 5.25" drive bays in order to gain a little extra room)

3. Maybe Im too ambitious? NAHHH

Thanks in advance guys.

P.S. if I've learned anything from the 1,000's of posts I've read, its that Koolance is almost as dirty a word as Thermaltake, so yah, no koolance will be entering my project at any time.

inCore

09-19-2008, 12:43 PM

Mixing metals, especially aluminum and copper causes a corrosion inferno, something which you want to stay away from. Although the radiator-on-reservoir idea is theoretically quite a good one, you'd be better off just buying a proper radiator and being forgetting about cooling your reservoir. However, I don't think it really matters what reservoir you have, in terms of performance at least, but everything that Waterlogged mentioned is naturally correct. EK blocks for GPU is good, you'll need to ask somebody else for which ones in particular. Swiftech Apogee GTZ is genious, good choice. Don't buy the Koolance RAM coolers.

DementeD

09-19-2008, 02:35 PM

3.5ghz on that quad should be butter..i had mine watercooled before on a sh itty TT watercooling setup and got 3.6ghz first try with like .05v increase and got 3.8ghz stable and 4ghz bootable
im hoping to get it to 3.8ghz again with much better setup(comparable to urs but im using the swiftech 320 and will have a 4870x2 in the loop) either way good choices and good luck on the setup.

BreeSpree

09-19-2008, 04:15 PM

i think you are mixing up the GTZ with the GTX...The GTZ does not have any alu inside so as far as corrosion goes he will be safe (Hell he should be fine with anything with that block :D ). The GTX comes with stock with alu top but even that can be replaced by a copper one to avoid corrosion issues.

The GTX was horrible, but the GTZ still has problems. I don't know why, but I've seen a good 3 threads already about the GTZ and algae growth and corrosion on people using regular coolant. I have never once seen a problem with the D-Tek when it comes to corrosion.

BlueAqua

09-19-2008, 04:18 PM

The GTX was horrible, but the GTZ still has problems. I don't know why, but I've seen a good 3 threads already about the GTZ and algae growth and corrosion on people using regular coolant. I have never once seen a problem with the D-Tek when it comes to corrosion.

Problems with the GTZ? I haven't seen any, let alone problems with algae growth specific to it. The block has only been out a month maybe.

There shouldn't be any difference with algue growth or corrosion between the GTZ and either Fuzion.

Waterlogged

09-19-2008, 07:34 PM

Wow thanks for all the info guys.

@Waterlogged: Aluminum = bad? (just wondering why? is it the mixed metals = no thing?). I really like that res, especially the fact that its a passive cooler, I really want to keep my water temps as low as possible, or does that matter? What if I got it the inside copper plated?

Overall I want to build a killer system, I want to build it right the first time if at all possible, with good-quality, good looking, good performing parts. I'm an artist (with a degree at that), and I've always been into computers, and I really want to combine the two into making this system as beautiful as possible. I'm already talking to a local shop about a custom paint job for the case and a few other parts, and I'm getting all of my connections copper-plated already (I just love the look of shiny copper on black)

<snip>

P.S. if I've learned anything from the 1,000's of posts I've read, its that Koolance is almost as dirty a word as Thermaltake, so yah, no koolance will be entering my project at any time.

Well, aside from the real potential of galvanic corrosion, metal reservoirs that claim to be "passive radiators" are rather worthless at that task, and in fact may actually warm the water if it's placed inside a case with bad airflow or has an exhaust fan aimed right at it outside the case. I still wouldn't go near it if I were you if it were plated with copper.

I'll recommend RRR for the Bling + performance part but I'm not sure the forum can handle yet another thread with <insert RRR endorsed company here>...FTW posted in it 20 times.

Koolance ain't all bad, I'm using one of their new acrylic DDC tops and 120mm res's and I'll be using their compressions in another build. :para: At this point in time the U.S. part of Koolance kinda got boned by the Korean part of Koolance when they shipped steel plugs without telling anyone. That's the only thing you really need to look out for aside from their aluminum lapses.

The GTX was horrible, but the GTZ still has problems. I don't know why, but I've seen a good 3 threads already about the GTZ and algae growth and corrosion on people using regular coolant. I have never once seen a problem with the D-Tek when it comes to corrosion.

Links please? Your going to learn that if your going to say something that contradicts general consensus around here, your going to need proof. ;)

bigslappy

09-19-2008, 07:43 PM

Well,

Links please? Your going to learn that if your going to say something that contradicts general consensus around here, your going to need proof. ;)
The Grand PooBaa of The Republic of PITA has spoken : Soo links PLZ

Waterlogged

09-19-2008, 07:48 PM

The Grand PooBaa of The Republic of PITA has spoken : Soo links PLZ

Sorry, but The UDE of Pitaopia is not affiliated with RoX PITA. :nono:

bigslappy

09-19-2008, 08:10 PM

Sorry, but The UDE of Pitaopia is not affiliated with RoX PITA. :nono:

OOPs ! Plz don't :slapass: me ! I hear yer a Dangerous Impudent Leader of all that is W/C

Waterlogged

09-19-2008, 08:18 PM

OOPs ! Plz don't :slapass: me ! I hear yer a Dangerous Impudent Leader of all that is W/C

Personally, I consider myself knowledgeable enough to be dangerous, some others however, seem to think I'm an exalted know it all and have accused me of being as such. :ROTF:

bigslappy

09-19-2008, 08:24 PM

Personally, I consider myself knowledgeable enough to be dangerous, some others however, seem to think I'm an exalted know it all and have accused me of being as such. :ROTF:

Life must be REALLY tough for those who accuse u of being a know-it-all

:rofl::ROTF::rofl:

Cutless009

09-20-2008, 03:52 AM

I'll recommend RRR for the Bling + performance part but I'm not sure the forum can handle yet another thread with <insert RRR endorsed company here>...FTW posted in it 20 times.

Whats RRR? I cant seem to find anything on google or searching the forums? Please clarify?

luxbel

09-20-2008, 04:10 AM

RRR = RealRedRaider.

BTW, i have a set of those RAM-35's - it seems that the hydra-pak baggies are not aluminium, but, uh, let's say they are REALLY prone to puncturing. I haven't installed them yet, but they are extremely fragile. If you already got them, try to return them. if not, and you really want to LC your RAM, you have two choices: the RAMPlex from Aqua Computers or the RAM Kuhler from Anfi Tec. I pinged Andreoid about the RAM Kuhler, but they don't have any made yet. For the RAMplex you'll need to pick up G1/8 to G1/4 adapters, which BP makes a nice set.

Cutless009

09-20-2008, 04:48 AM

RRR = RealRedRaider.

I pinged Andreoid about the RAM Kuhler, but they don't have any made yet.

man what is it with everything good I find "not being made yet". It's like people design this stuff and then never bother putting it to market. It's like bragging you own a ferrari and driving up in an edsel. The only thing more annoying is that 9/10ths of the products in petra's shop are out of stock. :(

I mean seriously, when is SOMEBODY going to release a set 790i waterblocks to market?

Waterlogged

09-20-2008, 06:09 AM

Whats RRR? I cant seem to find anything on google or searching the forums? Please clarify?

Yeah, RRR=RealRedRaider....XS's version of an NFL :cheer:, where "certain" brands are concerned. He is the leader of The Island Nation of Blingville and is the mortal enemy of RoX PITA and The UDE of Pitaopia. :lol2:

Cutless009

09-20-2008, 09:13 AM

bigslappy

09-20-2008, 09:16 AM

Yeah, RRR=RealRedRaider....XS's version of an NFL :cheer:,

:rofl::ROTF::bounce::ROTF::rofl:

TedShred

09-20-2008, 09:25 AM

Waterlogged

09-20-2008, 09:29 AM

I would just like to clarify that by "bling" I dont mean "oh em gee clear shiney things with LED's and screens"/pimp my ride bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:, Im talking about well-made, polished parts, with an almost artistic look to them for their simplicity. For example the Enzotech NB water block, is probably the most sexy part I've seen yet.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/snbw-sli_01.jpg

Ah, OK. Thanks for the clarification.

In that case, it would probably be easier if you were to just browse through sites like Petra's, Performance-PC's, FrozenCPU, Sidewinders, and Jab-Tech and see what catches your eye, then post links here and someone should be able to tell you if it's any good. It's a lot of work for you I know but, only you know what you find artful/pleasing.

Man, that's absolutely gorgeous, as is their cpu block. (i read there were cracking concerns on the cpu block, but maybe enzotech's new revision is better? At least I'm pretty sure they have a newer version of the cpu block out. )

The cracking concerns have been 100% dealt with. The block tops (both) are now solid copper with a thin plastic cover that looks pretty much the same as the older tops alone. I have a Rev. A NB block and it is very nice indeed. :up:

TedShred

09-20-2008, 09:46 AM

The [Enzotech] cracking concerns have been 100% dealt with...

ooo, good info! thanks:up:

I like OP's definition of bling. And those enzotech blocks are, imo, some totally badass bling.:cool:

bigslappy

09-20-2008, 10:26 AM

Enzotech is offering all USA Scw-1 & Snbw users an exchange for the full copper tops to replace the plastic that was cracking here's Da linky ..

http://www.enzotechnology.com/#p1

yeah those are soo kinda Sexy bling !
BUT how is the restriction factor on those & how well they cool ?
I will say I wish I had seen enzo mosfit blocks before I got the EK ones those a great !

howsa the CPU block shape up along side the V-tec V2 & the GTZ ? cause that's Blinger also ...
Forged Copper thats great stuff

Cutless009

09-20-2008, 10:48 AM

Well here's a couple of SS's of what I was thinking of getting. I'd love to get the DDC 3.2 with a petra top from petra but he seems to be out of stock on them constantly :shakes:

Did you say enzotech made mosfit blocks? I havnt seen them anywhere, you have a link?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/Cutless2/main.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/Cutless2/noisereduction.jpg

$1,500 with shipping for all the parts! :shocked:

damn me and my perfectionism :shakes:

oh yah, and this is a dual loop system with the 120.3 being for CPU + NB/SB, and the 120.2 being for the SLI GPU's + Mosfets.

bigslappy

09-20-2008, 11:10 AM

Did you say enzotech made mosfit blocks? I havnt seen them anywhere, you have a link?
.

Here's the linky due out on Oct 1st

http://www.enzotechnology.com/wmst_81np.htm

bigslappy

09-20-2008, 11:31 AM

I M H O
lose the feser one f1 fluid = use distilled water & Petra's PT-Nuke & if ya want blue go with blue UV tubing

lose the rubber fan silencer = 36.00 wasted $>>> GOOD silent fans don't vibrate
lose the fans get these on sale > http://www.petrastechshop.com/14yalod1cafa.html .. 8 for $47.00 save $100
lose the push pins >> use metal screws >> u'll thank me when u go & try to remove anything u use the push pins for & save $27.00
i sure others will have more comments on yer other picks
the Petra DDC top is being redid & is still in the works can't comment on other DDC's & tops as I'm a Iwaki RD-30 fanboy

Cutless009

09-20-2008, 01:08 PM

I didnt go with YL's because I was staying away from sleeve bearing fans, Im trying to keep this rig as quiet as possible considering the performance spec Im going for, hence the expensive fans.

*edit* holy ridiculous inflation batman, $200 for a pump? Theres perfectionism, and there's lunacy o_0

bigslappy

09-20-2008, 03:26 PM

*edit* holy ridiculous inflation batman, $200 for a pump? Theres perfectionism, and there's lunacy o_0

need them for the head they provide as I got a sub-floor external rad box with a blower
:cool:
50f or lower ambiant temps blowin' thru my rads all summer long come winter it gets better as the ambiant runs about 40f
Remember what forum yer on here WE do things to the extreme around here !