Quest on Rad sizing

[fox3]

I have been studying the stickies in this forum and am about to pick up the parts for my WC build. I am having a hard time deciding how much rad/ fan area I will need. My spec's:
ASUS RE in a ANTEC twelvehundred case
Q9650 @ 3.8GHz ideling ~ 38*... all cores gets real hot fast when I benchmark
Saphire 4870 X2, might get another if it is worthwhile doing

I am thinking CPU, GPU and three chipset blocks, NB and MOSFETS, not sure if I can fit one on the SB w/ the Graphic card

Just bought a D-Tek fusion v2 and am trying to pick out the chipset blocks at the moment

Not sure on how much Watts I will be adding and am curious if (1)120.3 is enough or (2) 120.2 I can fit a single under the Big Boy 200 case fan but am thinking rad(s) will be external

Pump? Any thoughts on the Aquastream XT USB 12v DC Pump - Ultra Version? I like the software and sensors that are incl.

This will be the first attempt at WCing for me and I want to make the right choices.

[TouGe]

I'd throw the CPU, Mosfet, and NB on a 120.3 which would drop your idle/load temps on your CPU a lot and the 4870X2 on a 120.2. This set up has worked really well for me and the single 120.2 w/ DD block keeps my GX2 @ 30C @ idle and no matter how long I game I have yet to see it break 40C.

[fox3]

Thanx for the replies. Gotta plan a rad box now.

Will a single 120.3 be enough to keep two 4870 X2's cool. The case is pretty airy and two of the front fans are pretty much circulating air right at the GPU(s) and Power Supply. I can not believe how warm this GPU can get air cooled with the fan "quiet".

[Conumdrum]

It might keep two of them cool. If on a seperate loop, a good rad and 6 HS fans the temps might be a bit higher than a 120x4 would give, but they should be a lot cooler than the standard air cooling. We kinda don't know yet, I cruz a few of the big WC forums and haven't seen any results yet. Hopefully someone has and can reply.

So what I'm saying is I don't have a clue....ohh well.

[Martinm210]

Here is an old review I did that might help you with that PA120.3. I never did get a chance to try a 120.2 though:
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Thermochill-PA-120_3-Review.html

This estimator is one I also made for single or multiple 120.3's in the same loop, figure out your wattage in one of the linked PSU calculators, plug in your fan RPM, and it'll report a ballpark figure for you.
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/Martins-RadEstimator-PA120_3-03.zip

[fox3]

Thanx Martin for those links. I have been reading at the liqiud lab for the last few nights.

So I guess the 120.3 is more than able to handle its own and what matters then is how noise tolerant I am.

I will plan on two loops using 120.3's with the GPU(s) seperate from the others, low decible fans and then adjust as req'd.

[skinnee]

Thanx Martin for those links. I have been reading at the liqiud lab for the last few nights.

So I guess the 120.3 is more than able to handle its own and what matters then is how noise tolerant I am.

I will plan on two loops using 120.3's with the GPU(s) seperate from the others, low decible fans and then adjust as req'd.

If near silence is what you're after...the PA120.3's mixed with some Yate Loon D12SM-12's. I have them at 7v and my HDD's are louder than anything else.

[Martinm210]

Thanx Martin for those links. I have been reading at the liqiud lab for the last few nights.

So I guess the 120.3 is more than able to handle its own and what matters then is how noise tolerant I am.

I will plan on two loops using 120.3's with the GPU(s) seperate from the others, low decible fans and then adjust as req'd.

Yes, the PA is a premium and quality radiator optimized for the lower speed fans, so it's a good choice if you have the money and want one of the best.

But like any radiator, the fan selection that goes along with it critically changes the overall performance. You can tinker with the estimator and change the RPM to get an idea what's right for you. In the end it's always a compromise between performance and noise and noise is highly a personal preference thing. I like the slow speed yate loons on up to the medium speeds myself, but many folks think 1000RPM is too loud so you never know what folks prefer.

[fox3]

I made the decision to get a Feser X-Changer Quad 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator and ordered one over the weekend. I am now looking at fans. I will be using a single loop and will be leaving the GPU air cooled for the time being. The parts list is shrinking.

I see now after perusing this forum that the fans and speed which they run are directly proportional to Rad performance. Noise is my major constraint in choosing a fan as I am a bit hard of hearing. I am looking at the Scythe SSF21f @ 1600 RPM they are ~ 28dBA. My question is will 4 of these fans in a pull conf. be sufficient to draw enough airflow over the Rad quietly? I am planning on building a Rad cabinet/ box and if needed I could go in a push pull conf. if more fan is necessary. Else, what other fan should I be looking at. Yate loon has been tossed about is there a preffered fan that runs quiet say under 1600 RPM?

[Martinm210]

Check out Vapor's fan testing sections, he's our local fan expert here. He's done a bunch of different fan tests here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202394

I would pay particular attention to the fan on radiator testing scenarios.

[BreeSpree]

I made the decision to get a Feser X-Changer Quad 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator and ordered one over the weekend. I am now looking at fans. I will be using a single loop and will be leaving the GPU air cooled for the time being. The parts list is shrinking.

I see now after perusing this forum that the fans and speed which they run are directly proportional to Rad performance. Noise is my major constraint in choosing a fan as I am a bit hard of hearing. I am looking at the Scythe SSF21f @ 1600 RPM they are ~ 28dBA. My question is will 4 of these fans in a pull conf. be sufficient to draw enough airflow over the Rad quietly? I am planning on building a Rad cabinet/ box and if needed I could go in a push pull conf. if more fan is necessary. Else, what other fan should I be looking at. Yate loon has been tossed about is there a preffered fan that runs quiet say under 1600 RPM?


For a single rad loop the TFC rad is the best you could have chosen, so nice pick. The Scythe fans you have chosen are a nicer performer with high resistance such as pulling/pushing through a radiator. Four fans in pull, will be sufficient to cool the rad. I am confused however, that if you are making an external radiator housing you didn't just buy 3 Swiftech QP360's, as it would be cheaper and more effective in a rad cabinet. You could also attach some cheap yate's onto those Swiftech rads, and apply some noise canceling foam inside the housing. It would yield higher performance than a single TFC Quad X-changer. But you still made a great pick with the Feser rad. I believe it could easily handle your 4870x2 in the loop as well.

[fox3]

I saw the fan guide by Vapor and that is how I came to consider the SFlex F. My other choice was the Yates Loon D12SL-12. It is quieter but also less air flow more in line with the SFlex E. I read some readers reviews on the egg about how not quiet the SFlex F were. I'll go with Vapor's conclusions.

I originally had the idea to hang the rad and fans under the desk near the rear and out of sight. That would have added a foot of head to the pump, not good. I have an ANTEC twelvehundred and its BigBoy fan on top would have me raising the rad 3" or so if I place it on top of the case. So I figure to hang it off the wall like a speaker cabinet. Fed Ex is to deliver the rad tomorrow and then I can decide how to place it.

[Martinm210]

I saw the fan guide by Vapor and that is how I came to consider the SFlex F. My other choice was the Yates Loon D12SL-12. It is quieter but also less air flow more in line with the SFlex E. I read some readers reviews on the egg about how not quiet the SFlex F were. I'll go with Vapor's conclusions.

I originally had the idea to hang the rad and fans under the desk near the rear and out of sight. That would have added a foot of head to the pump, not good. I have an ANTEC twelvehundred and its BigBoy fan on top would have me raising the rad 3" or so if I place it on top of the case. So I figure to hang it off the wall like a speaker cabinet. Fed Ex is to deliver the rad tomorrow and then I can decide how to place it.

Putting the fans further away is always a good means to making the fans that much quieter. You just need to make sure you have good air flow around the radiator so you get nice cold air intake and the hot exhaust has a place to go and get out of there.

Regarding the pump head, in a closed loop water cooling system that only matters when first filling the loop. After that the return line head balances out any head differences in the system such that static pressure head is nearly zero at the pump(static pressure head = reservoir filled elevation above pump). So in the end all that does is add some tubing length restriction to the loop which is generally too small to worry much about.:up:

As far as the fans go, I havn't tried the Scythe S-Flex, but have heard many folks praise them.

[fox3]

Regarding the pump head, in a closed loop water cooling system that only matters when first filling the loop. After that the return line head balances out any head differences in the system such that static pressure head is nearly zero at the pump(static pressure head = reservoir filled elevation above pump). So in the end all that does is add some tubing length restriction to the loop which is generally too small to worry much about.:up:


Thanx for that info that makes things so much easier with regards to rad placement.So then can I place the pump lower than the case and not incur a loss due to head? I have an enclosure from one of my firsts builds that could house the rad or two with fans, the pump or two and res. See I kept tellin the wife I was gonna use this case some day. Now to find a place for a 386 board, B drive and 100 watt PS :rolleyes: