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View Full Version : Aluminum + Copper mixing results



Eddie3dfx
09-12-2008, 10:49 AM
I am so stealing Duckie's thread, but since he doesn't post on here, it's okay :D

Here is what he posted on overclock and I thought this was valuable for the people to see..

Both blocks have been throughly cleaned. They have been soaked in vineager, toothpasted brushed, and acetone cleaned multiple times. One waterblock was used for a few years in a copper only loop. The other block was used with aluminum for a few years.

Left with aluminum, the other only copper.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h43/duckieho/DSCN1314.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h43/duckieho/DSCN1307.jpg



http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/141512-mixing-aluminum-copper-waterloop.html

bigslappy
09-12-2008, 12:02 PM
Koolance's aim is to take over the world & cause mass disruption by GALVANIC Corrosion .. they tried to sneak into my sys with a nice pretty Tee that was brass plated with nickle ' BUT then the Wife noticed a small red X appearing on the back of my neck ........:shock:.... then i checked the REAL NICE plugs they suppllied with the tee.... :eek2:....
The Red X is now gone ..... as are all that is Koolance ..

but how about that person sitting next to you last nite at that LAN party ????? he didn't :bananal: u when ya picked up yer bag with some Hidden Koolance part ? :ROTF::rofl::yepp:

zuess
09-12-2008, 12:07 PM
Koolance's aim is to take over the world & cause mass disruption by GALVANIC Corrosion .. they tried to sneak into my sys with a nice pretty Tee that was brass plated with nickle ' BUT then the Wife noticed a small red X appearing on the back of my neck ........:shock:.... then i checked the REAL NICE plugs they suppllied with the tee.... :eek2:....
The Red X is now gone ..... as are all that is Koolance ..

but how about that person sitting next to you last nite at that LAN party ????? he didn't :bananal: u when ya picked up yer bag with some Hidden Koolance part ? :ROTF::rofl::yepp:

I know what you mean about Koolance T's, 2 days after installing one in my system I was reading in this forum that they rust.
I drained the water and they had already started rusting.
Shame on you, Koolance.

jollyjoker
09-12-2008, 12:32 PM
i would have thought it would have been worse after a few years. but i guess it better to not have any at all.

hotdun
09-12-2008, 12:39 PM
STEEL + ALUMINUM + COPPER + NICKEL + ThermalTake Coolant .................. FTW

Throw in some iron fittings and you've go a winner :up:

RickCain
09-12-2008, 12:43 PM
i would have thought it would have been worse after a few years. but i guess it better to not have any at all.

Yeah, me too....

Considering there is no data on what was in the loop I'm impressed.

Boogerlad
09-12-2008, 12:54 PM
what happened to the aluminum blocks?

inCore
09-12-2008, 01:07 PM
Koolance - better than crack!

But just as good for you.

Conumdrum
09-12-2008, 01:15 PM
I would of liked to see the blocks before they were cleaned and info on the liquid used.

T_Flight
09-12-2008, 02:53 PM
I've seen galvanic corrosion too many times on boats, and for a water block that's pretty bad. There is permenent transfer of the metal to the block. No amount of cleaning will ever restore that block to it's previous condition. It's possible to machine it away, but that would ruin the block. That's awful. I can only imagine the debris on that block before cleaning.

I said this in one other post. I'm purposely buying stuff that has no aluminum. Only copper and brass, and I better never find that in my loop. If something is advertised as brass or copper it better be just that. A company WILL be replacing all the damaged blocks and radiator if it's not. That's a guarantee.

It's one thing if it's advertised as aluminum. That's fine as a person can setup an all aluminum loop. It's an entirely different matter to advertise it as something it's not and cause damage. That's willful misrepresentation and negligence. We're talking about stuff here that can cost 4-500 dollars and on up into the 1000's if you go all out.

iowamoe300
09-12-2008, 06:54 PM
As the other poster stated, I would love to know what fluid was being used. I have a couple Koolance Vid 280 full cover blocks (they have anodized aluminum tops) in my loop, and I have always used fluid with anti corrosives. I just pulled the loop apart to put in some bitspower 90's and 45's and decided to pull apart my full cover blocks and they look pristine, as does everything else in my loop. This is over a year of running on either feser fluid, and the last 6 months on distilled with pentosin.

I like the Vid 280 blocks, but the anodized aluminum tops makes me worry when I see a thread like this. I wonder how hard it would be to make a delrin or acrylic top for my blocks?

freakgeek1337
09-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Koolance - better than crack!

But just as good for you.

:rofl: Sigged, if you don't mind that is...

ShoNuff
09-12-2008, 07:07 PM
Koolance - better than crack!

But just as good for you.

:rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF:

Can I put that in my sig too?

MomijiTMO
09-12-2008, 07:29 PM
Well if that's a years worth of damage then that's not so bad.

Justintoxicated
09-12-2008, 07:36 PM
I've seen galvanic corrosion too many times on boats, and for a water block that's pretty bad. There is permenent transfer of the metal to the block. No amount of cleaning will ever restore that block to it's previous condition. It's possible to machine it away, but that would ruin the block. That's awful. I can only imagine the debris on that block before cleaning.

I said this in one other post. I'm purposely buying stuff that has no aluminum. Only copper and brass, and I better never find that in my loop. If something is advertised as brass or copper it better be just that. A company WILL be replacing all the damaged blocks and radiator if it's not. That's a guarantee.

It's one thing if it's advertised as aluminum. That's fine as a person can setup an all aluminum loop. It's an entirely different matter to advertise it as something it's not and cause damage. That's willful misrepresentation and negligence. We're talking about stuff here that can cost 4-500 dollars and on up into the 1000's if you go all out.

True but how much does this amount of glvanic disruption actualy affect performance?

T_Flight
09-12-2008, 09:11 PM
Now that is what I'm wondering. There is no way to tell without a flow meter and testing. It does look like it's pitted but it's hard to tell how deep. Another thing about this is once it starts it gets worse. On my boat a guy said he used what was supposed to be Ti bolts and they were aluminum. It ruined some very expensive parts. We had taken it down to the beach and boated around the waterway for a weekend, and when I took that boat out of the water it was a horror. It was ate up.

I've read posts that disturbances reduce flow, but the only way to tell would be to measure it. It would be interesting to know.

brammers
09-13-2008, 12:06 AM
I might have this the wrong way around, but when you mix Alu & Copper, isn't it the Alu that gets eaten, not the copper?

I.e., once you've cleaned the depostits off of copper, it's basically OK, but the Alu part is going to be badly pitted and "half missing" :)

I welcome corrections from people with more of a clue!

J

Waterlogged
09-13-2008, 01:11 AM
As the other poster stated, I would love to know what fluid was being used. I have a couple Koolance Vid 280 full cover blocks (they have anodized aluminum tops) in my loop, and I have always used fluid with anti corrosives. I just pulled the loop apart to put in some bitspower 90's and 45's and decided to pull apart my full cover blocks and they look pristine, as does everything else in my loop. This is over a year of running on either feser fluid, and the last 6 months on distilled with pentosin.

I like the Vid 280 blocks, but the anodized aluminum tops makes me worry when I see a thread like this. I wonder how hard it would be to make a delrin or acrylic top for my blocks?

The tops on those blocks are nickel plated aluminum not anodized, big difference. ;)


I might have this the wrong way around, but when you mix Alu & Copper, isn't it the Alu that gets eaten, not the copper?

I.e., once you've cleaned the depostits off of copper, it's basically OK, but the Alu part is going to be badly pitted and "half missing" :)

I welcome corrections from people with more of a clue!

J

Unless you re-machine the blocks, there will still be deposits of aluminum buried in the copper.

brammers
09-13-2008, 01:25 AM
Unless you re-machine the blocks, there will still be deposits of aluminum buried in the copper.

Are these deposits normally visible to the naked eye? Or do you need to look deeper to spot them - and more to the point would the vinegar/ketchup treatment remove the visible part of the deposits?

I guess where I'm going here, is that it would be good to see the blocks before the cleaning process.

J

Waterlogged
09-13-2008, 01:36 AM
Are these deposits normally visible to the naked eye? Or do you need to look deeper to spot them - and more to the point would the vinegar/ketchup treatment remove the visible part of the deposits?

I guess where I'm going here, is that it would be good to see the blocks before the cleaning process.

J

Not really, the deposits are micronized. I really doubt anything short of machining would get rid of them due to the type of damage that's being done, it's basically anodizing the block without the acid. :eek:

s e r e n i t y
09-13-2008, 05:18 AM
<sarcasm>I prefer to fit my computers with xtreme high end Thermaltake Bigwater cooling systems. </sarcasm>

iowamoe300
09-13-2008, 04:43 PM
The tops on those blocks are nickel plated aluminum not anodized, big difference. ;)

Are you sure, waterlogged? I just had them out, and the top is actually 2 separate pieces. There is a thin shiny piece of metal plate on the outside with the koolance emblem cut out, and below it is the actual top, and it really looks like anodized aluminum to me. I accidentally scratched one, and no coating came off either. How can I tell for sure?

Waterlogged
09-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Are you sure, waterlogged? I just had them out, and the top is actually 2 separate pieces. There is a thin shiny piece of metal plate on the outside with the koolance emblem cut out, and below it is the actual top, and it really looks like anodized aluminum to me. I accidentally scratched one, and no coating came off either. How can I tell for sure?

WOW! Didn't know it was 2 separate pieces. :down: I always thought it was 1 nickel plated piece used for the top. I'd need a good quality pic or two of that inner piece to tell for sure. If it truly is anodized, you might be able to get a piece of acrylic roughly the same thickness and take the inner piece and the acrylic to a machine shop and have them whip out a new inner piece for you. :shrug:

iowamoe300
09-13-2008, 06:35 PM
WOW! Didn't know it was 2 separate pieces. :down: I always thought it was 1 nickel plated piece used for the top. I'd need a good quality pic or two of that inner piece to tell for sure. If it truly is anodized, you might be able to get a piece of acrylic roughly the same thickness and take the inner piece and the acrylic to a machine shop and have them whip out a new inner piece for you. :shrug:


http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21399

Definitely know it's aluminum now!

I bet a machine shop would charge me an arm and a leg to cutout a couple acrylic tops. Where does one obtain acrylic?

inCore
09-13-2008, 06:45 PM
:rofl: Sigged, if you don't mind that is...


:rofl::ROTF::rofl::ROTF:

Can I put that in my sig too?

lol go ahead, it's the internet. :p:

On another note, whilst surfing on digitec.ch, one of switzerland's biggest computer hardware shops, I found a fan community of the Zalman Resonator.

:shakes:

bigslappy
09-13-2008, 09:45 PM
HUH! what Aluminum in a W/C part not in the description ! :rofl::ROTF:
OOHH ~ ! ! another XS member Koolance ITUS ....:shakes:.......... Not agin this week how many has that been now ? =(Koolance gets outed) ! IT A NEW WORLDS RECORD ! Koolance for Prez !

Waterlogged
09-13-2008, 09:59 PM
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21399

Definitely know it's aluminum now!

I bet a machine shop would charge me an arm and a leg to cutout a couple acrylic tops. Where does one obtain acrylic?

Never said it wasn't aluminum, I just didn't think it was anodized.
I know Hank just does a copy/paste of the Manu's web pages so maybe they were visually deceiving me the whole time? Here I thought that they were plated because that exposed top part is plated and that is what I was going by, I merely thought something got screwed up in the translation, I should have known better. :shakes:

Seeing your in the States, you can try Home Depot, Lowes, or any other local retailer that might sell replacement glass/acrylic. Mcmaster also has a large selection if you want to try that route. As for machining, you might even be able to do it yourself with just a scroll saw or band saw and a drill.

bigslappy
09-13-2008, 10:07 PM
Tap plastics dot com they will cut & deliver stock anywhere in the US even have vids on their site showing how to cut , drill ,bend, glue , layout , even laser cutting of odd shapes , they have a store front just 7 miles to the south of me Nice guys willing to help , they are gonna do the windows on my Cube Case Mod for my FastSlappy rig

migueld
09-13-2008, 11:37 PM
Hmm those picts look fishy. The alu+copper block doesn't look bad at all, there is no corrosion, only some stains maybe from fungus or something. The shinny block looks fake... pure copper never stays shiny after a few years, it oxidizes. The only way that it can stay shinny is if it's plated in gold which it's not...

T_Flight
09-14-2008, 11:18 AM
Hmm those picts look fishy. The alu+copper block doesn't look bad at all, there is no corrosion, only some stains maybe from fungus or something. The shinny block looks fake... pure copper never stays shiny after a few years, it oxidizes. The only way that it can stay shinny is if it's plated in gold which it's not...


Both blocks were cleaned. That's after cleaning. The one on the left is bad because it has Al transfer into the Cu. How deep? I can't tell how deep as the pic isn't close enough, but it's bad. Every one of those spots is where Al has fused into the Cu, and the entire surface has migration also.

The other one is as shiny as new because it was cleaned and is the way it should look. The one on the left will never look like that again. It's permanently ruined.

T_Flight
09-14-2008, 11:27 AM
Guys what we need is a spreadsheet to keep track of what we have found to contain Al. This is getting out of hand.

I'm alsmost embarrassed to post this, but maybe we need to keep track of ferrous metals also. :shakes:

I cannot believe I just used the words ferrous metals in this forum.

migueld
09-14-2008, 07:23 PM
Both blocks were cleaned. That's after cleaning. The one on the left is bad because it has Al transfer into the Cu. How deep? I can't tell how deep as the pic isn't close enough, but it's bad. Every one of those spots is where Al has fused into the Cu, and the entire surface has migration also.

The other one is as shiny as new because it was cleaned and is the way it should look. The one on the left will never look like that again. It's permanently ruined.

Ah ok that makes sense. Yea, the picts aren't very clear either. Compare those with this:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85131&stc=1&d=1221402722

:D

Zw_Roodbaard
09-15-2008, 11:55 AM
Is it really that bad with the Apogee GTX :eek: I've got a GTX but I haven't opened it since 3 months. But you would think that when you've got the GTX for a long time it could be starting to leak when it's disintegrates like that.

T_Flight
09-15-2008, 12:36 PM
Ah ok that makes sense. Yea, the picts aren't very clear either. Compare those with this:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85131&stc=1&d=1221402722

:D

It is a miracle that water was not shooting out around the seal of that block. The step has been eaten completely through in multiple places. This is a serious problem with watercooling. You've got to be very careful something doesn't have Al in there, and recently we've had incidents where what was supposed to be brass was Al and STEEL! :shocked: Friggen steel man. On my parts I guess I'm gonna have to scrape the plating off (if it has any) and inspect every fitting, and piece of hardware to make sure it doesn't have any ferrous metals or Al snuck in there.

Delrin, Copper, and brass for me. No brittle plastics and no GC.

voigts
09-15-2008, 02:16 PM
That is seriously nasty.