View Full Version : Fuzion v2 or Apogee GTZ?
I'm looking for new CPU block to go along with this loop:
D5, PA120.3, EK 4870 X2 fullcover and 1/2" all over. CPU is a Q6600.
Now, I've been reading up and down about these two blocks, and performance wise I think we can all agree that it's a tie. I had originally set my mind on the Fuzion as it seems to be a tiny bit less restrictive than the Swiffy, and considering my pump, I thought that would be the selling point for me. The problem here is that the Fuzion seems to be out of stock everywhere and according to Alex at Petra's, D-Tek is waiting for a new shipment of blocks from their overseas manufacturer. The GTZ on the other hand, seems to be in stock nearly everywhere. The GTZ also seems to have a better mounting mechanism from what I can gather.
So what do you think? Should I wait for the Fuzion, or take the plunge with the GTZ?
Bojamijams
09-09-2008, 06:21 AM
Flow wise, you'll be okay with both.. I too think in performance the fuzion is better as its same temperature as GTZ with less restrictions, but the people are raving about GTZ's mounting mechanism and it does have the benefit of allowing even 1/2ID 3/4OD BP compressions to fit, so I'd say go with it. Especially since you can get it now.
Quad-Damage
09-09-2008, 07:56 AM
I just got my GTZ it's quality, you can't go wrong
taylormsj
09-09-2008, 08:03 AM
My personal opinion on the GTZ is that it is butt ugly, thats my input :D
But from what i have read is that there is no real significant thermal difference between the 2 blocks, so get whatever you want / can (Y)
zanzabar
09-09-2008, 10:29 AM
did u guys miss martins review the gtz lost in flow and had the same temp so if u have a multi block loop the dtek v2 will perform better
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/Swiftech_Apogee_GTZ_Review.html
but the gtz is slightly lower temps, so for cpu only
both are good choices
iandh
09-09-2008, 10:43 AM
What type of coolant are you using?
I wouldn't go near the GTZ with most UV dyes. Other than that it seems like a great block.
MrMojoZ
09-09-2008, 10:45 AM
the gtz lost in flow and had the same temp but... the gtz is slightly lower temps...
Since performance is equal you look at price and frills. In this case the Fusion seems slighty cheaper but the GTZ has space for 1/2" comps and apparantly the better mounting system. I'd vote for GTZ.
WhiteFireDragon
09-09-2008, 10:47 AM
What type of coolant are you using?
I wouldn't go near the GTZ with most UV dyes. Other than that it seems like a great block.
what's wrong with GTZ and dyes??
What type of coolant are you using?
I wouldn't go near the GTZ with most UV dyes. Other than that it seems like a great block.
Right now I use destilled with a couple of drops of PT nuke and some pentosin. I can easily drop the pentosin if that's a problem for the block. But what's the issue with the GTZ and UV dyes?
Anyways, thanks for the suggestions guys. Thing is, I've had this new fullcover block from EK for my 4870 X2 lying on my desk for a while now, and I'm dying to get it up and running. I'd like to get it up and running as fast as possible... so, I guess my question is, is it worth waiting for the Fuzion considering it's slightly lower resistance?
zanzabar
09-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Since performance is equal you look at price and frills. In this case the Fusion seems slighty cheaper but the GTZ has space for 1/2" comps and apparantly the better mounting system. I'd vote for GTZ.
i dont take the argument for compression fittings as valid, if i wouldent use it in a lab then i wouldent use it for a 24/7 liquid application, barbs + clamps are the most secure way if used properly
and colored tubes are better than dye IMO, if u look u can see the water line and u dont get color loss or stuff clinging to the blocks, and no fogging
MrMojoZ
09-09-2008, 11:18 AM
i dont take the argument for compression fittings as valid..
Of course the argument for compressions fittings is valid, for anyone wanting to use them this is a big deal. The fact that you don't care about a "feature" doesn't mean others won't.
TouGe
09-09-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm much happier with the GTZ than I was with the Fuzion V2. I feel that the mounting mech is superior to the Fuzion V2. Now I get a closer grouping in regards to temps across all four cores and I am also able to use my compression fittings which is a real plus.
With the GTZ while folding:
core1: 41-43
core2: 40-43
core3: 37-39
core4: 37-39
While with the Fuzion:
core1: 43-47
core2: 42-46
core3: 36-39
core4: 37-40
Not much of a differece but enough to annoy me.
Bojamijams
09-09-2008, 12:10 PM
Touge, your difference in temperature is not based purely on block exchange. Your ambient temperature was probably different, you may have used a different amount of TIM and just had a better mount (either due to GTZ's mechanism or just because you had a bad one on the fuzion and didn't know it). The difference you're showing is far more then during controlled tests that Andy and Martin did.
Blacky
09-09-2008, 02:05 PM
I really hate the distance between Fuzion fittings, GTZ looks better to me, tho both are good blocks...
Do what i did and flip a coin. :p:
(mine landed "heads" so i got the gtz, very nice block except for the deep o-ring pockets around the inlet/outlet. you need to use larger o-rings for BP fittings)
Linchpin
09-09-2008, 02:19 PM
The ability to use compression fittings with the GTZ as well as the apparently better mounting(I say apparently because I haven't owned a Fuzion V2) is what made me choose the GTZ. I also think it looks better than the Fuzion V2.
Quad-Damage
09-09-2008, 02:53 PM
Guys with GtZ, What do you use to clean the block?
Before you installed
iandh
09-09-2008, 03:48 PM
what's wrong with GTZ and dyes??
Same thing as any other block and dyes... except the GTZ has smaller/finer pins than anything on the market. I'm sure you've seen fuzions getting horrid temps because the pins are clogged with congealed dye/biological crap... multiply that by 5 and you have the GTZ. It is at least as clog prone as the supreme, and definitely more clog prone than the fuzion.
That's why I said be careful... some dyes congeal and clog blocks, some don't.
shabranigdo
09-09-2008, 09:03 PM
Same thing as any other block and dyes... except the GTZ has smaller/finer pins than anything on the market. I'm sure you've seen fuzions getting horrid temps because the pins are clogged with congealed dye/biological crap... multiply that by 5 and you have the GTZ. It is at least as clog prone as the supreme, and definitely more clog prone than the fuzion.
That's why I said be careful... some dyes congeal and clog blocks, some don't.
Ahh was wondering about your comment. Interesting point to consider. I kinda like the coin toss selection idea above too lol. Both look like great blocks from all the reviews and raves. To the OP I don't think you will go wrong with either, I feel the choice is more asthetics and what fittings you want to use, cost and performance are so close it seems a toss up.
Martinm210
09-09-2008, 09:28 PM
Same thing as any other block and dyes... except the GTZ has smaller/finer pins than anything on the market. I'm sure you've seen fuzions getting horrid temps because the pins are clogged with congealed dye/biological crap... multiply that by 5 and you have the GTZ. It is at least as clog prone as the supreme, and definitely more clog prone than the fuzion.
That's why I said be careful... some dyes congeal and clog blocks, some don't.
That's a good point.:yepp: I was trying to run a normal razor blade through the pins on one just to see how deep they are and found I couldn't even do that. Only a very fine blade in my exacto knife kit was fine enough. I think they are something like .3mm cuts or maybe even finer than that, so it's even smaller than some razor blades and could be more difficult if you plug up the pins with junk.
You do have to watch them all anymore though, I snapped off a pin on a fuzion GFX block a while back just using a stiff nylon brush to clean it.
It's getting tricky to clean the blocks these days and they've become excellent filters for your loop...:D
TouGe
09-10-2008, 03:52 AM
Touge, your difference in temperature is not based purely on block exchange. Your ambient temperature was probably different, you may have used a different amount of TIM and just had a better mount (either due to GTZ's mechanism or just because you had a bad one on the fuzion and didn't know it). The difference you're showing is far more then during controlled tests that Andy and Martin did.
All I know is that I did five remounts w/ the Fuzion V2 and for whatever reason core1 > core2 while core1 >> (core3, core4). I wasn't dissatisfied with the actual temp but with the variance between cores whether it was 65 degrees or 75 degrees in my room the difference between cores remained.
I have only mounted the GTZ once and I am already seeing a closer agreement between cores.
I never claimed to have run my tests in a controlled environment nor was I compairing my results with Andy or Martin. Although, as Martin did show in his results, the core temps have less variation between cores with the GTZ than there was with the V2 which is what I also experienced.
Thanks guys. Guess I'll just go ahead and order myself a GTZ then. I'd rather not wait any longer, and I have to say I'm extremely tempted by that mounting mechanism. The tiny price difference and the looks don't really matter to me, so.
HotGore
09-10-2008, 03:27 PM
That's a good point.:yepp: I was trying to run a normal razor blade through the pins on one just to see how deep they are and found I couldn't even do that. Only a very fine blade in my exacto knife kit was fine enough. I think they are something like .3mm cuts or maybe even finer than that, so it's even smaller than some razor blades and could be more difficult if you plug up the pins with junk.
You do have to watch them all anymore though, I snapped off a pin on a fuzion GFX block a while back just using a stiff nylon brush to clean it.
It's getting tricky to clean the blocks these days and they've become excellent filters for your loop...:D
Ya I was trying to remove a clump of goo from my FuZion V1 with tweezers and slightly bent a pin without even trying. Hell I even off set a few pins using a tooth brush, but I was brushing pretty hard. These copper pins are not strong enough for traditional cleaning methods of brushing, and elbow grease. Maybe it is time we used chemical cleaners to get out the goo so we wont damage the pins.
Drano anyone?
RickCain
09-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Drano anyone?
ketchup has always worked perfect for me.
sirheck
09-10-2008, 07:35 PM
Ya I was trying to remove a clump of goo from my FuZion V1 with tweezers and slightly bent a pin without even trying. Hell I even off set a few pins using a tooth brush, but I was brushing pretty hard. These copper pins are not strong enough for traditional cleaning methods of brushing, and elbow grease. Maybe it is time we used chemical cleaners to get out the goo so we wont damage the pins.
Drano anyone?
Maybe try compressed air.
jVIDIA
09-11-2008, 02:24 AM
Do you guys have seen any Enzotech Rev.A vs Apogee GTZ review/test ?
I've had yesterday one GTZ in my hand and it looked very inferior in the finishing compared with the Apogee GT.
The top black plastic did have some imperfections and the faceplate was also not well chromed ! It looked already with micro scratches :(
Didn't like it very much.
jVIDIA
09-11-2008, 06:45 AM
Heh,
Was the sample you looked at new in the box?
The one I looked was sealed and was opened in front of me in a local shop ! ;)
It doesn't have this kind of finishing that Swiftech shows in their site:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/apogee%20GTZ/apogeeGTZ-x400.jpg
One thing I think could do some damage to the block is that the barb conectors bags that come with the block, 2x1/2 + 2x3/8, are located on top of the block with only the plastic sheet that covers the GTZ in between.
The GTZ box is one of the poorest boxes I've ever seen on a WC block.
The Apogee GT box was nothing like it :
http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2007/05/02185650658l.jpg
The 1st time I saw the box was on the web, and I thought it was only a sample box for the rivewers but I was wrong .... it was already the retail box :
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/SwiftechApogeeGTZ-2.jpg
Look here how the box has all the stuff over the block : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHCT3C6HAY
Really bad Swiftech :down:
The one I looked was sealed and was opened in front of me in a local shop ! ;)
It doesn't have this kind of finishing that Swiftech shows in their site:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/apogee%20GTZ/apogeeGTZ-x400.jpg
One thing I think could do some damage to the block is that the barb conectors bags that come with the block, 2x1/2 + 2x3/8, are located on top of the block with only the plastic sheet that covers the GTZ in between.
The GTZ box is one of the poorest boxes I've ever seen on a WC block.
The Apogee GT box was nothing like it :
http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2007/05/02185650658l.jpg
The 1st time I saw the box was on the web, and I thought it was only a sample box for the rivewers but I was wrong .... it was already the retail box :
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/SwiftechApogeeGTZ-2.jpg
Look here how the box has all the stuff over the block : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHCT3C6HAY
Really bad Swiftech :down:
Effective this week, the Apogee GTZ is now shipped in Blister pack (same as the GT & GTX. The blister wasn't ready on time, so we used a generic box just for the product launch. Feel free to return the product to us for exchange if you find it unsatisfactory.
systemviper
09-12-2008, 01:58 PM
I'm thinking of the XSPC Edge Acrylic or the Enzotech Sapphire CPU Water Block Rev. A with "Micro-Pin Design"
does it compare to these 2?
Quad-Damage
09-12-2008, 03:26 PM
My GTZ came in a box and it is working great!
jVIDIA
01-21-2009, 03:13 PM
Update .... just bought the Apogee GTZ socket 1366 mounting kit.
The quality continues to be unsatisfactory: no screwdrive included and the faceplate comes already with 2 scratches.
The kit comes in a plastic "bubble bag". It was sealed and inside tha bag and on top of the faceplate there was only the instructions sheet. No moving parts of any kind. The scratches are located under the instructions sheet place, so no external object did those scratches.
In my opinion a 15USD chrome piece should have a better finishing or have been more careful handled in factory. To have it already scratched I could buy a 2nd and kit.
Swiftech is disappointing me for the 2nd time (1st time here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3280916&postcount=27) and here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3281343&postcount=29)).
:down:
John Planet
01-21-2009, 03:50 PM
i dont take the argument for compression fittings as valid, if i wouldent use it in a lab then i wouldent use it for a 24/7 liquid application, barbs + clamps are the most secure way if used properly
May I ask why you wouldn't use them for a lab application? As far as securing a connection, with all things remaining equal, I'd put my faith in a compresson fitting over a barb+clamp anytime.
T_Flight
01-21-2009, 06:13 PM
Update .... just bought the Apogee GTZ socket 1366 mounting kit.
The quality continues to be unsatisfactory: no screwdrive included and the faceplate comes already with 2 scratches.
The kit comes in a plastic "bubble bag". It was sealed and inside tha bag and on top of the faceplate there was only the instructions sheet. No moving parts of any kind. The scratches are located under the instructions sheet place, so no external object did those scratches.
In my opinion a 15USD chrome piece should have a better finishing or have been more careful handled in factory. To have it already scratched I could buy a 2nd and kit.
Swiftech is disappointing me for the 2nd time (1st time here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3280916&postcount=27) and here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3281343&postcount=29)).
:down:
If your looking for a show chrome piece, your not gonna find it for 15 bucks.
I'll tell you what I'll do though. Send it to me and I'll have my Father take it to a shop that does show chroming and it will have that blueish chrome and have a shine that you can comb your hair in. A freind of his works there. It's not gonna be cheap, and I'd have to take it to them to get a price. I would say it would at the very least tripple the price. It may even be much more than that. It's very labor intensive. It takes more copper to get that look and it takes more polishing (by hand) to get that look.
It can be done though. It all depends on what you wanna pay. Let me know, and I'll give him a call.
ranker
01-21-2009, 06:18 PM
Update .... just bought the Apogee GTZ socket 1366 mounting kit.
The quality continues to be unsatisfactory: no screwdrive included and the faceplate comes already with 2 scratches.
The kit comes in a plastic "bubble bag". It was sealed and inside tha bag and on top of the faceplate there was only the instructions sheet. No moving parts of any kind. The scratches are located under the instructions sheet place, so no external object did those scratches.
In my opinion a 15USD chrome piece should have a better finishing or have been more careful handled in factory. To have it already scratched I could buy a 2nd and kit.
Swiftech is disappointing me for the 2nd time (1st time here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3280916&postcount=27) and here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3281343&postcount=29)).
:down:
Are you serious? Disappointed with packaging?
Wow. I thought I was tough on manufacturers...lol
jVIDIA
01-22-2009, 03:27 PM
T_Flight, one thing is the quality of the chroming ... other are scratches !!!
I don't admit scratches on a new chromed piece. This is not the Swiftech quality from the past.
I've had alot of WC blocks, some from Swiftech some from others brands, and let me tell you that todays Swiftech finishing has nothing to do with "yesterday" Swiftech !
Using your logic, the Apogee GT should had cost 200USD because it had a beautiful chromed faceplate.
And if for you 15USD is nothing, for me it's already good money.
Cheers...
anzial
01-22-2009, 03:54 PM
Well, maybe you should've found a place where the adapter was cheaper. For example, I paid mere $7 for mine :D
SiGfever
01-22-2009, 04:25 PM
My GTZ looks great and I am very happy with the performance. It was a toss-up with the EK Supreme but the hold down kit and the fact that is does not take multiple mounts to get it set was a plus.
hornet
01-23-2009, 02:33 AM
I confirm, yesterday bought my GTZ and both mirrors (775 and 1366) are with many imperfections. :(
Price too expensive for the level of detail of the block, but the performance is not enough to justify the price ...
Zehnsucht
01-23-2009, 02:57 AM
I absolutely HATE clam shell packaging, and getting parts in a box is SO much better. Not only is it more environmental friendly, but also reduces shipping since it's more symmetrical and more can be shipped in a smaller space. My MCW-60 was in clam shell, took two minutes of opening, carving with a carpender knife. DTEK block took five seconds since it was in a box.
Also, the box can be reused for storage when not in use. I've changed graphics card, so I'm not using my MCW-60 any more. Where am I storing it? That's right. In the Dtek box.
WaterFlex
01-23-2009, 04:18 AM
I`d like to swap my Fusion with GTZ ^^.