Nikon D60 or Canon EOS450D

[Scubar]

Am considering buying an SLR camera and have narrowed it down to these two.

I cant see why the Canon 450D is priced around £100 more than the Nikon as looking at its specs i cant reallly see much difference.

The Nikon certainly looks alot more comfortable. I will probably have a play with them in the week to see if the Nikon is in fact more comfortable.

Just wondering given the choice which ones you guys would go for as a beginner camera.

[Soulburner]

Out of those I would suggest a used D80. Same price range and far superior in features and ergonomics. That will give you plenty to keep you busy until you are ready for the next step, which would be a D90 or D300. When you finally do make the transition (could be 6 months, could be a year or more) it will fit right into your hands and you'll be off after already having the Nikon system down.

At least in my experience...after using a D80 for 6 months, the D300 fell right into my hands and I can immediately appreciate all of the improvements and the shortcomings its solved for me since I am already at home with the camera.

[Scubar]

Is the D80 really that much better then. It seems the body costs the same as the D60 + lense

[Soulburner]

The D80 started at $999 in 2006. It has fallen a lot in price since then and is now a bargain.

The Nikon D40 and D60 are entry-level cameras - very well equipped but not to be compared with the next tier D70/80/90 cameras.

[Nate P.]

I vote for the D80 as well, a great feature set at a great price which will grow with you as you get better. Lucky for you Soulburner is selling a D80!

[Jupiler]

Another thing is that the D60 doesn't have a built-in focus drive motor, which means that you'll need lenses with an own drive motor for auto-focusing (AF-S Nikon lenses or Sigma HSM lenses).
Your choice in lenses wouldn't be that large as with the D80.

Go to a camera shop and try both the EOS450D and D80, and see which camera suits you best (grip, handling etc..).

If you decide to buy a Nikon, I'd choose the D80 too, instead of the D60.

[Zytek_Fan]

Canon is where it's at.

[Scubar]

Ill give the D80 a try and see how it feels. The Canon looks nice an all but it doesnt look very comfortable to use whereas i have been using a very similar style camera in the Nikon Coolpix 5700 and it is very comfortable to use.

[Scubar]

So out of the D80 and the Canon EOS 450D would you still go with the D80 ?

[YugenM]

D80 for me

I hated my Rebel XT's feel enough to defect to Nikon

[Nate P.]

I agree that Canon's Digital Rebel line is less that comfortable, but once you get into the 20D, 30D, 40D range, the ergonomics are excellent. If you can get your hands on a used 20D or 30D, go for it. I have a 20D, and my friend's D80 pales in comparison.

However, if you cannot find a 20D or 30D, the 450D is no match for the D80.

[Scubar]

Thats interesting that ppl say that. The specs of the Canon seem better and although people say the cheaper lenses that Canon do arent as good they have made some very good ones lately according to people. Ideally i dont want to spend more than around £400 on a Camera+Lense

[Nate P.]

The cheaper lenses that any company does aren't that great. If you want a good lens, be prepared to shell out the dough. However, the kit lens should be enough to hold you over until you get another lens.

[YugenM]

Once you get into photography, the cost of the body will be the least of your worries.

[TheGoat Eater]

The D80 started at $999 in 2006. It has fallen a lot in price since then and is now a bargain.

The Nikon D40 and D60 are entry-level cameras - very well equipped but not to be compared with the next tier D70/80/90 cameras.

It will fall again this week hint hint ;)
EDIT : :up:

[TheGoat Eater]

The cheaper lenses that any company does aren't that great. If you want a good lens, be prepared to shell out the dough. However, the kit lens should be enough to hold you over until you get another lens.

however - NOS items can be had at good prices - check eBay! you ever have an NOS lens that you want to source , drop me a line as I have a lot of NOS lenses :up: Tamron, Sigma, Nikon, Canon,Minolta,Pentax you get the idea. I got out of selling family's store NOS items as extra income but I am willing to check if we have them for you... meaning I am not selling you them, just helping you out...
:up: :up: :up: :up:
trying to be helpful while obeying the rules ... and I like it here :D

[Scubar]

Do any of you have any good sites for learning about settings and things like aperture, ISO, lens sizes etc etc. Im not gonna have a clue what half the things on the camera will do.

[Nate P.]

Do any of you have any good sites for learning about settings and things like aperture, ISO, lens sizes etc etc. Im not gonna have a clue what half the things on the camera will do.
DLSR Tips (http://www.dslrtips.com/)

[YugenM]

Do any of you have any good sites for learning about settings and things like aperture, ISO, lens sizes etc etc. Im not gonna have a clue what half the things on the camera will do.

user's manual is a good place to start

[Scubar]

Yea i will be sure to take a long look at the users manual.

[WiK1d]

Check out these links, the first is a really in depth explanation of how everything DSLR works, helped me a lot

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/enjoydslr/part1/1B.html

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Exposure-Basics.aspx

[Jimmer411]

The D60 a doesn't hold a candle to the 450D, let alone the 40D. But for the price range I would find a slightly used 30D for much less.

First I would hold both cameras and see which one feels best in your hand. The 450D isn't the biggest camera, which I wouldn't own one without putting a grip on it. Canon feels better in my hand and the selection of primes and F4 stabilized zooms are something that is lacking from the Nikkor. For example with Canon you have a selection of 4 different 70-200 where there is only 1 Nikkor (which is also $200-300 more expensive than the canon equiv.)



Anyways check out http://www.the-digital-picture.com/ for tests on just about all canon lenses and gear.http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/ is also another great place for info.



For what its worth I use a 400D with grip, 430ex, 70-200 F4L IS, 50mm 1.8 and a 28-105 3.5-4.5 II USM.

[Soulburner]

Nikon definetely needs to try harder in the F4 area, they don't have anything there.

[Scubar]

Ok i tried the Canon 450D and the Nikon D80. The Nikon D80 was alot more comfortable which is what i was expecting, the Canon is for very small hands which made it awkward to hold.

The only problem now is that the D80 + 18-70 lens is £599 or the D80 + 18-135 is £614 which is quite alot of money.

[smee]

The only problem now is that the D80 + 18-70 lens is £599 or the D80 + 18-135 is £614 which is quite alot of money.

I'd got with the D80 + 18-135 if your going to get the D80.

I have a Canon 30D, and got the 28-135mm lens, it's really amazing, especially for it's size, 18-135mm is a great "walk around" lens size. :up:

[Scubar]

Yea thats the one i was considering. Then id have to find a good Macro lense and a good Tele lense too so that im covered for most situations.

[Soulburner]

IMO, I'd buy body only and get the lenses you need. Or, buy the kit and sell the lens.

[Scubar]

I dont know what Lenses i will need thats the trouble. Id like a decent normal lense for Landscapes and a Telefoto and a Macro. Then i have one for each type of occassion as im not going to be shooting anything in particular. Id like to start off with just a Standard lense so i can get the hang of the camera and then get a Tele lense for taking shots of wild animals around where i live and then finally a Macro lense for doing some closeups.

Ive read a couple of pages about lenses but the numbers are still abit confusing at the moment.

[Soulburner]

My personal setup is the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 and the venerable Nikon 70-300 VR for long shots. I'd love a 70-200 2.8 VR...but I really can't afford that now plus its really heavy.

I have the 35mm f/2 prime for occasions where I am in low light, and no flash is allowed or isn't practical, but I've found I don't use it very much.

[Scubar]

Ok i was pricing up the D80 with a lense, bag, SD Card and the insurance just incase and it came to well over £800 which is waay more than i was hoping to spend.

I only intend on really getting a couple of Lenses and there seems to be a pretty good choice of AFS lenses for the D60 plus its £300 cheaper even with a twin lense kit on Jessops.co.uk. Remember im only a novice and dont intend on becoming a pro photographer or anything, just a semi decent SLR .

I was also looking at the Sony A350 but wasnt sure if it would have as good choice as the Nikon. The reviews do seem to praise the D60 for being a very good Entry level SLR.

Any thoughts ?

[Soulburner]

The D60 costs the same as the D80 now...IMO the D60 has never been a good deal. Find a used D40 instead.

[Scubar]

You can get a D60 + Nikon 18-55mm VR lens + Tamron 70-300mm, f4-5.6 lens + Sandisk 2GB for £462.97 The D80 ( Body Only ) is £449.99 or D80 + 18-135mm VR Lens is £616

Thats quite a large price difference considering you get two lenses and a SD card for the same as just the D80 body only.

The problem is that i dont really want to buy a used one because then theres no warranty and i dont want to spend £350 on a used D80 only for something to happen and it break a week later meaning a complete waste of money.

[Soulburner]

US prices are a bit different then. Nikon doesn't sell the D40/D60 body only so it's hard to compare, but if you remove the lens they are within $100-130.

[Scubar]

Yea that wouldnt be so bad, but here in the UK if i wanted two lenses and a 4Gb card it would cost me around £850-900 whereas the D60 set is only £400.

Decided on the D60 for now with the 18-55mm + 55-200mm + 4GB SD Card. This costs half the price of the D80 and a lense and a SD Card and should give me a good starting point as i doubt spending double the price is going to make a noticeable improvement in picture quality in the hands of a novice. Maybe in 6-12months time i will get my hands on a lower priced D90 by which time i will be competent enough to make use of all the extra features.

Ill start posting some pictures soon. The D80 was a very nice camera but i couldnt justify spending that much money at this time and i found the D60 very easy to use when i played around with it.

[berk]

450d has an excellent sensor and it's a good enough cam to show the limitations of 'bad' (kit) lenses.
To those that can tell the difference,i guess the only way to go is body only,but if your prepared to do some post processing when you come across these 'limitations' you'll be OK and the outlay for the Body and 18-55mm kit lens wont be so bad(?).
Some food for thought:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XSI/XSIA.HTM
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos450d/page34.asp
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/xsi-field.shtml
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_450D_Digital_Rebel_XSi/verdict.shtml

[Scubar]

Had a look at the 450d. Felt very small and uncomfortable to hold and the controls werent very well placed. It was also over £100 more expensive for just a single lense kit. Ive browsed through numerous reviews and alot of them say that the Nikon is a far better option over the 450d. I did have a look at the Sony A350 aswell which was quite comfortable to hold but the features it tried to "boast" just seemed pointless. It was only going to be between the Nikon and the Canon and as i said the Canon was truly awful to hold.

[Soulburner]

Just so you know that the D40/60 cannot do bracketing (for HDR or otherwise), cannot command wireless flash units, doesn't have the top LCD for shooting information, and cannot use anything but AF-S (or other third party lenses with built-in AF motors). Most of these shouldn't be a problem for you, but you'll come to understand what it all means and maybe want more in the future. The D60 is a great camera but it has its limitations.

[Scubar]

With the bracketing, I will buy a tripod so i will be able to manually adjust the exposure settings myself when doing that.

I dont intend on buying a seperate flash let alone a wireless one.

The top LCD shooting information i didnt find a very useful feature. When you turn the D60 camera on it shows the shooting information in big bold letters for 8secs or until you put your eye to the viewfinder. This i found to actually be easier to read and understand the information quickly rather than being shown on the top LCD on the D80.

Im sure in the future i will want to upgrade once i have become competant enough to actually make use of the extra features the bigger and better cameras have. But for now i thought that spending all the extra cash would only be wasted when i dont really have the ability to make use

[Hazzan]

I use Canon 400D with EFS 28 - 135 IS 2 year ago I buy this and I still keep until now but with Canon 450 you can get some more technology like Mega Pixel higher than 400D and Liveview in focus LCD...

[Scubar]

Yea but the 450d the Liveview is pretty pointless as the image stabilisation doesnt work with it and the extra Mega Pixels dont make any difference in term of image quality. Plus it has awful ergonomics and costs £100 more

[Nate P.]

Yea but the 450d the Liveview is pretty pointless as the image stabilisation doesnt work with it and the extra Mega Pixels dont make any difference in term of image quality. Plus it has awful ergonomics and costs £100 more
What do you mean the IS does not work with Live View? If the lens has IS then you can use it with Live View.

It sounds too me like you are sold on the D60. Really, any of these choices are good ones. Image quality is pretty much the same across the board, and really what it comes does to is usability, ergonomics, and lens selection.

Essentially you are buying into a system, Canon or Nikon (or Pentax, Olympus, etc.). Just be 100% sure you want to go with Nikon (it sounds like you like the D60 a lot), as it's pretty hard to switch brands down the road.

All I can say is that the ergonomics on the 20/30/40 and now 50D are amazing, 100% better than the ergonomics on the 350/400/450D's. If you plan on upgrading bodies down the road, I'd have a nice hard look at Canon. That isn't to say Nikon's higher level bodies are bad, in fact the D300 and D700 are amazing as well. What really matters is that you are happy with your purchase.

[Scubar]

What i mean is that the IS isnt shown in the Live view screen when your previewing the picture to be taken or something similar to that. Thats what ive come to understand from all the things ive read.

I will be buying into Nikon. I used to have a Coolpix 5700 so im already used to the feel of Nikon cameras and menu systems.

[Soulburner]

I'd kill for a Canon 70-200 f/4L...so perfect for me, yet Nikon only offers their $1800 70-200 f/2.8 VR :(