View Full Version : Ok, I'd like to dive into TEC, but I'm new to it...
TheWeaseL
09-30-2003, 12:57 PM
Well, I'd like to TEC my cpu, see how much more it has in it, and I understand how to insulate and everything around the cpu to keep condenstation away, I need a dedicate psu, etc. But I'm wondering if I can use my current water cooling setup to cool it. Right now I have my cpu, gpu, and nb in a water circut, and I was wondering if I could get say the swifty waterblock/226watt pelt combo, and use it in my current water cooling circut, or would it needs it own? If I could use it in the current one, I think what I would do, is put the GPU first, NB second, and then the cpu third...
eXtenz
10-01-2003, 01:13 AM
Well depends on what kinda water cooling you got now, and just from experience i would go to CPU first cause you want the coldest water hitting the peltier so the cold side is colder, if you use heated water the peltiers cold side will be hotter (not above freezeing but not the lowest it would be)
thus we need to know what your watercooling equipment consist of to answer your question
Colin
10-01-2003, 05:46 AM
How many radiators do you have in your loop? That 226W TEC will seriously pump a lot of heat into the water, I needed used two BIX's with 130CFM Delta's and my water still got to past 40 degrees after a few hours. Something you might want to consider as well is, if your water does get substantially hotter (and I think it will) you may see decreases in your motherboard and videocard OC's...
eXtenz
10-01-2003, 05:55 AM
Heh, those BIX's really arnt any good are they? alot of ppl still get em even after i see others say dont, not to mention expensive.... i just built a system for a friend useing one 7.5x7x2 heatercore for 20$ at autozone, useing a 150cfm delta @ 7v blowing on it, water temps are around 33-35C in a 27C room.... and a 150cfm delta @ 7v sucking air out the top of case (keep in mind hc was put in the drive bays so the intake and exaust was fairly close ot each other) useing a 220w peltier on a 2500+ @ 2.7ghz
Colin
10-01-2003, 05:59 AM
eXtenz they're alright, but I bought them when I was a newb and didn't know better. If I could do it again I'd just get two heatercores instead.
TheWeaseL
10-01-2003, 10:16 AM
Well, my current heatcore is the Dtek pro one. Two fan shrouds on it using the push/pull idea with 2 80cfm fans. Then on my gpu is the swiftec mcw50, and then my nb has the dangerden nb cooler on it.
I'm guessing I may need to get a bigger heatercore, but I really don't know.
Originally posted by TheWeaseL
Well, my current heatcore is the Dtek pro one. Two fan shrouds on it using the push/pull idea with 2 80cfm fans. Then on my gpu is the swiftec mcw50, and then my nb has the dangerden nb cooler on it.
I'm guessing I may need to get a bigger heatercore, but I really don't know.
The best way to tell is to hook everything up and give it a test drive :)
If it doesn't work well enough you can eithre increase air flow (install two 120mm fans) or get second d-tek h'core:)
Y'day I took some approx water temps.
Idle with ambient at 22.6C my water was 31.2C @ rad's inlet and 29.9C @ it's outllet running 1.9vcore...
wespwnzu
10-02-2003, 06:20 PM
ya know, a d-tek radiator with 2x 190 cfm delta fans should cool that sucker off pretty well =D
KnightElite
10-02-2003, 11:28 PM
Guaranteed that your video card and NB temps will be higher than they are now, so that is something to consider if you plan on putting the TEC in the same loop. I still had pretty hot water (at least 30ºC, though the room was pretty warm) with a 156W TEC, cooling CPU only, and I have two 10"x6"x2" heatercores...
TheWeaseL
10-03-2003, 12:19 AM
So it looks like with the 226 watt, I'm gonna need better cooling...What I was thinking, was getting one of those heatercores that can have 2 120mm fans on one side, and go pump, cpu, big heatercore, gpu, nb, small dtek heatercore, res, pump...
That way the cpu gets most of its heat disapated, then the gpu and nb get some decently cooled water, then the dtek can cool it down a bit to go back to the tec...
saaya
10-03-2003, 02:48 AM
the swiftech waterblock with a 226W tec on it is a great deal!
what cpu block are you using atm? if your block is ok just get the neoprene gasket and tec from switech.
you need a good rad, whats your current rad?
KnightElite has a good point.
If you thinking TECs go TECs all round (TEC-cool everything). If you want to TEC your CPU only and cool the rest (NB, GPU) with the same water... it's pointless.
You'd be much better of having two loops and since you're planning on buying second heatcore...
Ranger2992
10-03-2003, 05:39 AM
So if I am sitting at 33C idle right now and my water temp is in the low 20's what kind of temps do you think I am gonna get when I install my swiftech with 226W pelt? Let's say it takes my water temp up to 50C. Would I still get CPU temps in the 20's?
I am using a blackice extreme with a single 120mm fan. The CPU runs in a loop of its own and the NB and GPU runs in a loop of its own. The GPU will have a 80W swifty block.
KnightElite
10-03-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Ranger2992
So if I am sitting at 33C idle right now and my water temp is in the low 20's what kind of temps do you think I am gonna get when I install my swiftech with 226W pelt? Let's say it takes my water temp up to 50C. Would I still get CPU temps in the 20's?
I am using a blackice extreme with a single 120mm fan. The CPU runs in a loop of its own and the NB and GPU runs in a loop of its own. The GPU will have a 80W swifty block.
That should be fine, and I doubt your water temperatures will go as high as 50ºC. The reason being is that the amount of heat your radiators can dissipate is a function of temperature differential, so the higher the temperature of the water, the more effective the radiators are at cooling. 40ºC might not be unreasonable though for water temperatures.
At idle, in the system you describe, your CPU temps would quite likely be near 0ºC. At load... well, that depends. May vary up to 20ºC or more.
My water temps measured recently were as follows @ 22.6C ambient air temps
-rad inlet 31.2C
-rad outlet29.9C
Cpu idle is runing at minus5C(vcore 1.60) full load it's +5C (F&H 24/7 + UT2003).
I have extremely efficient rad/fans setup tou... see my sig
saaya
10-03-2003, 03:08 PM
KnightElite, are you surethe bix can take the heat of his cpu, nb, gpu AND a 80W tec (you want a mcw50-t Ranger2992, right?) AND a 227W tec??? :eek:
there are people with a mcw50-T ONLY loop and get like 35-40°C water temps! i dont know what fan they have on the bix, but thinking about its size i REALLY doubt it could handle all the heat from Ranger2992s system with an extra 227W AND 80W tec, thats an extra heat load of 300W!!!
TheWeaseL
10-03-2003, 05:40 PM
Well saaya, right now, I'm sporting my 0330 Z barton 2500, doing 2.5ghz, and I think it has more. I'm also gonna give my 2100 AIUHB 0302 chip another run, since I saw someone here w/ a tec doing 2700 with it. :)
Right now, my heatercore is the Dtek pro, with 2 120mm fans on it, doing the push/pull setup, 80cfm each.
Oh, and the cpu water block I have is the Swifty MCW5000A.
Ranger2992
10-03-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by saaya
KnightElite, are you surethe bix can take the heat of his cpu, nb, gpu AND a 80W tec (you want a mcw50-t Ranger2992, right?) AND a 227W tec??? :eek:
there are people with a mcw50-T ONLY loop and get like 35-40°C water temps! i dont know what fan they have on the bix, but thinking about its size i REALLY doubt it could handle all the heat from Ranger2992s system with an extra 227W AND 80W tec, thats an extra heat load of 300W!!!
I run two completely seperate closed loops. Loop #1 has only the CPU and loop #2 has the NB and GPU. Each loop is powered by a Hydor L30 and a blackice extreme Rad. Anyway, with this setup I won't have all the heat going into just one radiator:D
I should recieve both my Swiftech MCW50-T and Swiftech MCW462-UHT next week from Cooltechnica
KnightElite
10-03-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by saaya
KnightElite, are you surethe bix can take the heat of his cpu, nb, gpu AND a 80W tec (you want a mcw50-t Ranger2992, right?) AND a 227W tec??? :eek:
there are people with a mcw50-T ONLY loop and get like 35-40°C water temps! i dont know what fan they have on the bix, but thinking about its size i REALLY doubt it could handle all the heat from Ranger2992s system with an extra 227W AND 80W tec, thats an extra heat load of 300W!!!
Note, he has two loops, as Ranger2992 has already pointed out ;).
I doubt the temps will get too ludicrously high with a single BIX, 50ºC is pretty warm for a watercooling loop's water. Investing in something better than a BIX for a CPU radiator might be a good idea, however.
saaya
10-04-2003, 12:57 AM
well the higher the water temp above ambient the more efficient works a rad, but i really doubt a single bix could handle 450W+ of heat!
ranger, the dtek rads look extremely nice and people seem to get great water temps. if you spend that much on pelts id spend a few bugs on a better rad as well...
Ranger2992
10-04-2003, 01:33 AM
Agreed:D I am gonna wait and see how these rads work out though. For as much money as I have wrapped up in this watercooling system I could have a nice used phase change system. I'm sitting at close to $400 right now and another $120 for Rads is getting to be too much. If I get bad temps I will buy some nice Rads though. I have also been toying with the idea of making a water chiller, but I am not gonna be able to do that until I move back to the states in November.
saaya
10-04-2003, 01:53 AM
well phase change would get you only 20°C lower temps and it would only cool your cpu :)
and why 120$ for rads? sell your bix` and get 2 of those http://www.dtekcustoms.com/product.asp?0=205&1=226&3=91
Ranger2992
10-04-2003, 01:58 AM
Very nice Rads. It would still end up being $50 each cause I would want the fan shrouds. I will keep those in mind if I have problems with the rads I have. Thanks for the link :D
Colin
10-04-2003, 05:15 AM
You know I went from water to the TEC route (got the MCW5000-PT and MCW50-T) and it did nothing but cause me headaches. Like Ranger2992 I spent a lot of $$$ trying to make thigns better but in the end I bought a Prometeia...
If I could do it again I'd skip the TEC block for the CPU and go straight to phase change cooling. I think the Prometeia is the best purchase I've made in a very long time.
saaya
10-04-2003, 05:33 AM
ranger, why dont you make some shrouds yourself? its not hard at all and wont cost you more than 10$ and 20min.
mdzcpa
10-04-2003, 05:35 AM
I've had exactly the opposite experience of Colin.
I already had my Swiftech system set up, so adding the TECs was an incremental upgrade. Cheap...no. About $175 for the PSU and TEC upgrade units. But...the results were indeed quite satisfying. I dropped my loaded temps considerably which enabled solid overclock gains. I took my time and made sure the blocks and socket were condensation proofed (not hard at all to do). I had no problems or headaches at all.
One point, though, I started with the Swiftech H202-B kit which comes with thier 676 rad (a twin 120mm fan model). So I had enough cooling to handle the TECs. Proper rad cooling capacity is something that must be dealt with when going TECs.
Also...always, always, always run all blocks as either TEC, or non TEC, in the same loop...period. To do otherwise is a big mistake. And the loops need to be totally seperate if you're only going to pelt one loop.
Antoher point is that I was able to sub ambient cool both the CPU and GPU...something the Vapo or Prommy does not do. You still need to water cool, or pelt, the GPU anyway with phase change. It would seem silly to super cool the CPU with phase change and leave the GPU to air cooling.
Edited for confusing wording noted below.
Ranger2992
10-04-2003, 05:56 AM
So are you saying it is a mistake to run two completely seperate watercooling systems? I don't really understand how that would be bad, or drop performance. It seems to me it would increase performance because the heat wouldn't overload one loop.
mdzcpa
10-04-2003, 07:13 AM
No no...my post was poorly written.
I meant to say that all blocks within a loop should all be TEC, or non TEC, blocks. I was stessing the point of not wanting to ever have TEC and non TEC blocks in the same loop.
Two seperate loops is the way you want to go if you want TEC and non TEC blocks. Keep the water seperate. Even with exceptional cooling, the water temps when using even a single 226w TEC will be high enough to greatly diminish the cooling of non TEC blocks that are in the same loop.
Sorry for my bad wording in that last post:)
Ranger2992
10-04-2003, 07:34 AM
No prob :D You had me scared there for a minute. I am glad to see I am doing it the right way:D
Stang_Man
10-04-2003, 12:03 PM
now mdzcpa, that doesn't matter if i've got freezing cold water (~0-5C) :)
i'm doing a regular cpu waterblock with a swiftech mcw50-t(80watt pelt)
in current config:
freezing water> pump > cpu > gpu > freezing water
temps of the water going in is very cold, temps of the water coming out, not much higher, nothing more than 5C...
mdzcpa
10-04-2003, 12:19 PM
Yep....I suppose using a chiller reduces the problem of having TEC and non TEC blocks on the same loop. As long as the water temps are kept cold enough you still end up with good cooling on the non TEC block. In addition, you've only got the 80w TEC pumping in the loop. You see many more problems when the 226w CPU TEC is used and GPU is left withg straight water.
Originally posted by Stang_Man
now mdzcpa, that doesn't matter if i've got freezing cold water (~0-5C) :)
i'm doing a regular cpu waterblock with a swiftech mcw50-t(80watt pelt)
If it's really cpu and not gpu you want to cool with 80 pelt it's... won't simply work. MCW50-T block is not designed to handle such temps as cpu is producing. You'll most probably damage your cpu...
Chilled water may prevent damage but performance will be worse than air colloing...
in current config:
freezing water> pump > cpu > gpu > freezing water
I'd put pump before chilled water to supply cpu with the coldest coolant system can produce :)
temps of the water going in is very cold, temps of the water coming out, not much higher, nothing more than 5C...
TheWeaseL
10-04-2003, 01:45 PM
So what rad/heatcore would you recommend to put in the separate loop for my cpu that will be tec'ed? Would another Dtek Pro heatercore be enough it all it was handling was the cpu, or is that too much for it?
KnightElite
10-04-2003, 04:34 PM
Jabo, you are confused. What Stang_Man is saying is that he has a regular CPU waterblock (eg. no thermoelectrics) and an MCW50-T on the same loop, with chilled water. As I already discussed with Stang_Man, that's not a problem, because he can maintain good water temperatures regardless.
In terms of heatercores, my philosophy is the bigger is better philosophy. Some constraints to that (which I ignored, which involed building an enormous, cumbersome case, which will hopefully be replaced with something slightly more stylish soon :D) are the actual size of the radiators that you can fit in your case ;).
Stang_Man
10-04-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by KnightElite
Jabo, you are confused. What Stang_Man is saying is that he has a regular CPU waterblock (eg. no thermoelectrics) and an MCW50-T on the same loop, with chilled water. As I already discussed with Stang_Man, that's not a problem, because he can maintain good water temperatures regardless.
Jabo, what he said ^^ :D
TheWeaseL
10-05-2003, 12:17 PM
Well, see I don't use a case right now. ;)
I'm looking at building an external enclosure that I can mount either on top, or the bottom of a case I have, and then I can make it portable, but if I need another/larger heatercore/rad, I wanna get that right away so I can make the secondary enclosure the right size.
saaya
10-05-2003, 03:33 PM
the dtek rads arent that large...
TheWeaseL
10-05-2003, 09:12 PM
I was more thinking about those rads/heatercores that can have 2 120mm fans on one side. If I'm going to use a 226watt TEC, I'll need one for the loop that cools the cpu. Then I can just use the Dtek pro I already have for my nb and gpu. But I would need everything together first before I would start fitting parts together.
Sorry for being confused...
Thanks for being gentle ;) :) LOL