Single Pass or Dual Pass radiator for my system?

[iceredwing]

I can't really find consistent evidence from google that would give me a quick answer. I'm hoping perhaps a more seasoned watercool-er can tell me which is better for my loop & why.

Currently my system is cooling a q6700 at 4ghz & a gtx280, the pump is a mcp355 with petra's top w/ 1/2" barbs.

Currently i'm using a mcr320 that is in series with a black ice pro 120.1
that goes through a d-tek fuzion v2 & the gtx280 waterblock from DD.

i was thinking of going with the black ice gt stealth 360 x-flow (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=4541) because it would make for much less tubing if i had the outlets at opposite ends.

Currently the pump is right beside the outlets of the mcr320 and it is at the opposite end of where all the waterblocks are located. Basically the pump & radiator outlets are in the front of the case and the waterblocks are at the back end of the case (i can't change this configuration).

With the x-flow the other outlet of the radiator would be towards the back end where the waterblocks would be, since it is single pass the inlet/outlet are at opposite ends. I figure with a single pass & a shorter path of travel that it would improve the flow rate & improve performance. But i'm getting mixed reviews on how it will perform.

I'm currently using 3 yate loons (i believe the slowest speed) to cool the radiators. Hopefully that's all the relevant information needed.

Any help would be appreciated. Ideally I'd like to keep it as quite as possible, i don't mind buying the mid speed yate loons but I would like to avoid high cfm / loud fans as much as possible.

[alacheesu]

Have you checked Martin's Flow Rate Estimator (get it from his site (http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/))? I don't think an extra feet or so of tubing will have much of an impact on your flow, and I certainly don't believe it is enough to make a difference in performance. The performance of your radiator is much more important, and the MCR 320 is a solid performer. Getting the x-flow instead is likely to hurt your performance unless it equals the performance of the mcr320 (I have no idea how it performs).

Are your temps really that bad?

[Webby]

If you use the blackice crossflow radiator your temperatures will suffer. While they appear to have identical specs to the non crossflow versions because they only have a single pass the are two important differences first the pressure drop is lower, secondly because the is the same number of tubes the velocity of the water in the tubes is halved (hence the lower pressure drop). The problem with reduced velocity is that it reduces the turbulence in the tubes which adversely affects heat transfer and subsequently performance.

In addition to the reduced efficiency of the radiator the Black Ice rads are designed with a high folds per inch which means a high pressure drop for the air being moved by the fans because of this to get adequate performance you would need faster fans.

Personally I would stick with the swiftech the extra tuing is going to be less of a performance hit than changing rads.

Oh, as an aside the Thermochill PA160 is (as far as I know) the only single pass Rad designed as one rather than adapted from a duel pass model, because of this it doesn't suffer as much from the effects of reduced turbulence as this has been designed out as much as possible.

[iceredwing]

I don't know if the performance is bad due to the ambient weather or the addition of the gtx280 in the loop. But currently i'm normally idle at around 28-32, and the processor can reach as high as 44-48C. Which was a large contrast to winter where i would idle at low 20's and hit high 30's

I would go with the thermochill but the problem is the thickness won't permit me to fit it into my Coolermaster 832.

So i am to assume you normally would want to avoid single pass radiators?

[Zaskar]

Are you sure cross flow single pass rads are worse? If thats the case the Thermochill PA160 would be much better off being dual pass with the 2 barb holes on the same side.

[Martinm210]

Generally 2 pass designes are about optimal. Not sure on the GTS models though, they use much thinner and more restrictive tubes which might offset the lost in flow rate on a single.

Regardless, you're not going to see a big change just switch out rads of the same size no matter what rad it is. You're better off adding another or going push/pull on the fans.

[Webby]

Zaskar don't forget though that the PA160 was designed to be single pass the GTS crossflows are just GTS's with different end caps which is why they take a performance hit.

[Martinm210]

This is another one of those "If only the manufacturer would publish performance data" on their website thread.

I think the GTS X-flow might be a really great option, but there is not any performance based information out there on it...? There is some on the dual pass variety, but nothing on the single pass that I've seen?

[menace2society]

This is another one of those "If only the manufacturer would publish performance data" on their website thread.

I think the GTS X-flow might be a really great option, but there is not any performance based information out there on it...? There is some on the dual pass variety, but nothing on the single pass that I've seen?


A perfect reason for you to test it :D

pretty please with sugar on top :shrug:

[Boogerlad]

http://www.over-clock.co.uk/ivb/index.php?showtopic=14805
why a single pass rad might not be good. A dual pass modded to single isn't a good idea, but a standard single pass one like the 2-342 heatercore is good.

[iceredwing]

i'm a bit confused, is it saying that the x-flow series is a dual pass converted to a single pass?

I was under the impression that HWlabs usually create top of the line radiators, and I was hoping to improve performance & improve the internal aesthetics inside the case by purchasing the 360 x-flow. But I don't want to waste my money if performance will drop, I already think performance is barely acceptable as it is. When I prime95 , I know the temperature of the water is increasing quite a bit because the idle temperature of the video card moves up about 7-9c without stressing the card itself.

From what I read online, it sounded like the higher density the fins are, the higher the cfm needs to be to properly cool the radiator. The FPI is about double that on the 360 x-flow than that of the MCR320.

So is the assumption that the performance of the stealth 360 x-flow going to be worse than the mcr320?

[Boogerlad]

yep

[menace2society]

yep

Yeah but that's still just a assumption, there is no test data available. And if it is less, buy what margin is it less :shrug:

[Martinm210]

i'm a bit confused, is it saying that the x-flow series is a dual pass converted to a single pass?

I was under the impression that HWlabs usually create top of the line radiators, and I was hoping to improve performance & improve the internal aesthetics inside the case by purchasing the 360 x-flow. But I don't want to waste my money if performance will drop, I already think performance is barely acceptable as it is. When I prime95 , I know the temperature of the water is increasing quite a bit because the idle temperature of the video card moves up about 7-9c without stressing the card itself.

From what I read online, it sounded like the higher density the fins are, the higher the cfm needs to be to properly cool the radiator. The FPI is about double that on the 360 x-flow than that of the MCR320.

So is the assumption that the performance of the stealth 360 x-flow going to be worse than the mcr320?

There's no data on the single pass radiators, so it's a bit like looking into the crystal ball regarding performance.:shrug:

I have two 480GTX's and couldn't say enough good about the quality of the finishing, it's really as good as it gets. Their paint is more automotive like and more durable compared to many others..:up:

[coolmiester]

I'm running a 360 X-Flow GTS in my latest Skulltrail build and i got to say its keeping two QX9775's and NB block running real cool and quiet :up:

For me the ease of hose routing far outweigh any performance hit if there actually is a performance hit plus the quality is outstanding as Martin mentioned already.

http://www.coolercases.co.uk/skull/skull_2270.jpg