What radiator for x x x .... a wish

[Hijack]

On this page alone, you can find 3 or 4 threads asking what radiators people should use for their builds. It seems a common question that is often answered well, if not with overkill, on what rads are good.

What I would love to see is a more scientific tool, much like Martin's flow estimator, that could show a temperature delta from idle to load, or with an entered desired delta, what radiator must be used given the following entered parameters:

Compontents in the loop along with any OC (CPU, GPUS, etc)
Water Blocks
Pumps and estimated total Flow
Fans & CFM (to account for desired rpm on a given fan).

Using this estimation of wattage, flow, cfm and static pressure, cooling surface area, it should be possible to get a statistically accurate, if not relatively precise answer should it not? Granted it's complex as hell, but from what I've seen of the talent an knowledge around here I'm sure someone could do it!

Why I wish for this is simple...sure, I can just build my loops around a bunch of TFC 360 or 480 rads, but the problem with that is my goal is not to have a freaking city bus sitting on or near my desk. I'd love to custom build a multi-loop box that wasn't freaking 22 X 22 X 10. This means using the smallest rads possible. But at the same time, I don't wanna compromise on cooling much, if at all. It would be nice to have numbers that might show that an MCR320 would give me the same temp delta as say, a BI GTX 360 for a given loop. That woud save me a bunch of space!

[BlueAqua]

Just look at Martin's reviews and make your own judgments from that. I think that's damn scientific and highly reliable. He's taken a tremendous amount of time and is highly valuable. So what's the mystery?

[kinghong1970]

Hey Hijack, i can't agree with you more... something like that... a side to side comparison with performance will be great...

BUT....

who the hell is gonna pay for all that schtuffs?!?!?!?!

lol... this is a hobby to most of us... Martin,Vapor, among others, have been amazing with their detailed info on various aspects of this hobby... but to compile such... it is a bit much... eh?

[Hijack]

Ok, look at any testing done in anywhere in these forums and tell me, for my components, can I achieve a 10c delta for a given rad?

You can't. All you can do is estimate that a given rad is "enough" to handle a given loop of components.

Like I said, I am simply trying to put numbers to this, rather than a warm and fuzzy.

[Hijack]

Hey Hijack, i can't agree with you more... something like that... a side to side comparison with performance will be great...

BUT....

who the hell is gonna pay for all that schtuffs?!?!?!?!

lol... this is a hobby to most of us... Martin,Vapor, among others, have been amazing with their detailed info on various aspects of this hobby... but to compile such... it is a bit much... eh?

Heh, I've seen people go to great lengths for a hobby! Maybe this will simply inspire someone who has the talent and already had an interest? :D

[kinghong1970]

hey, like i said... i cannot agree with you more...

test of the top 5 radiators, under same conditions, done by same individual, more side by side...

it seems most radiator tests i've seen are... A vs B and B vs C by many different individuals... hence we have to judge, based on A vs B, and B vs C, what the performance of A to C would be...

meh... my brain hurts... too much A, B, and C on a friday...

[Hijack]

Oh, I see what you're saying King, you're thinking we needed someone to test all the various combinations? God, you're right, that would take AGES!

I'm simply thinking this could be done via pure calculation. We'd need someone thoroughly versed in thermodynamics though. Ok...where are those post graduate engineers looking for a challenge! :D

[eXa]

I think u need to read martins rad test once more.... ill give u a hint
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/SwiftechMCR320-Therm5.png

[kinghong1970]

Damn... i'm loving he MCR 320 even more...

thanks eXa, but that's 2 radiators on a side by side performance with variable fans and variable loads...
although they are the 2 rads that comes up as #1 and #2 on recommendation for radiator... there are other radiators and in some sense... a wider test would be nice...

but then again, not expecting this... really, again, lots of items out there...
lots of info... jsut got to do the research and come to our own conclusion...

[Hijack]

okie dokie then. Nevermind. This idea seems to be getting a lot of resistance.

I know martins tests. I know the results. Yes it is VERY scientific and very good. The only issue is it is relegated to a few specific sets of components and rads. While you can definitely make estimates as to what would work for you, unless you have the specific components that fit into those tests, you don't know numbers.

I only thought it would be nice to have the theoretical numbers based on heat loads, surface area, flow and airflow. These open ended calcs could provide statistically correct numbers for a far greater range and combination than the current data provides. But, nevermind. Looks like I'm the only one that would need this.

[BlueAqua]

Don't get discouraged but everyone would love to have something like this. But how do you go about getting all of the data? Manufacturers posted specs? User tested? There are an incredible amount of variables one would have to consider. It's completely possible, but really not worth anyone's time to rigorously pursue it. Maybe if the market was larger, but in my opinion the water cooling market is still fairly small.

[kinghong1970]

no Hijack, it's not resistance...

it's a lot to ask for...
lot of time, money and effort...

you can find lots of side by side comparisons on these forums... you just need to search and look... sometimes a helping hand to point your search in the right direction may be needed... but there's a ton of info...

something to consider also is... many items you find out there are bling... right?
i mean, in exception to Petra and some other hard core WC'ing sites, many computer component vendors sell a lot of blingy items...

furthermore, many folks WC for different reasons...

now in this ocean of WC'ing supplies... it's kinda sensless to ask for performance comparison of a "multicolored led fan with rainbow colored fan blades" to a yate loon, right? interesting... fun.... but not necessary...

in short, i see as many of these test being done on the top performers... and hence... despite the world of various options... the frequently used/tested items are good choices...

bah... too much word for a friday...

ha ha ha

[Waterlogged]

There are 2 variables that could cause some serious problems for something like this that no one can take into account in a program.

1. Flatness of stock IHS (this can however be taken out of the equation by lapping).

2. Contact between IHS and cores (not many ppl are going to be able to anything about this one...)

There are other "little" problems such as weather conditions that generally make a mess out of things. This is why you can't really compare your temps to anyone else with any certain reliability.

[lyl]

First, realize that you can backup everything in life with numbers and statistics! Obtaining the data simply a matter of time and money

And I agree a tool like this would be useful, would really only help when making buying decisions on a radiator.

With watercooling, I think the problem is that the people that have the money don't have the time, and the people that have the time don't have the money...

:2cents:

[Sparky]

I think u need to read martins rad test once more.... ill give u a hint
http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/img/SwiftechMCR320-Therm5.png

That chart is awesome. It makes me a bit more happy I went with the MCR320 over the PA too, the PA wouldn't have fit in my case anyway but it looks like the MCR320 isn't that far behind in performance.

[roofsniper]

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/MartinsRadiatorEstimators.html he seems like hes still working on it but its a nice radiator estimator.