Thermochill rad flux cleanup

[Navanod]

Like many, I "thought" I had cleaned up the rad well and good with hot water and lotsa flushing and crazy shaking.

All it took was for my trusty MCP655 48hrs, and I start to see snowing in the res (not all the white stuff are bubbles)
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa3/Navanod66/TCRadjunk001.jpg

The tygon started to cloud and deposits can be seen at the bends. That bright spot on the res's "paddle" is also a thick deposit of flux!
Ignored it for quite sometime but finally couldn't take it anymore and decided to do some major cleanup!

After much hot water soaking and pulling a test tube brush through the tubings, all I did was to brush the deposits into a nice pattern (in whichever way the brush hairs happened to run through) :mad:

Taking the advice of Xilikon (thank!), I grabbed some 70% ethanol from the lab I worked at and repeated the soak + brushing.
Crystal clear tubings!! :up:
The thing was, just shaking with ethanol didn't quite got rid of the flux, brushing was still needed.

All other parts in the loop (cept the res, O rings and pump) were cleaned the same way, followed by distilled water rinse.

That got me worried bout the rad and res, since I can't quite brush the insides.
Rad's soaking in ethanol for 48hrs now and I'm trying to get a small brush for the res. May try soda water on the res since I can't use alcohol on it.

Here's the last and best part: I also cleaned up the coolant :p:
I was using PC ICE...should've ran the leak test (cum flux dirt test) with distilled instead, mistake there

Not willing to throw away a full bottle of PC ICE, I collected and brought the murky bottle to my lab.
Poured the liquid into centrifuge tubes and gave them 15 minutes at 5000rpm in the spinner.
Was tempted to use the 13 000rpm monster centrifuge but after looking at the results of the 5000rpm, was convinced that its good enough

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa3/Navanod66/TCRadjunk006.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa3/Navanod66/TCRadjunk005.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa3/Navanod66/TCRadjunk003.jpg

Check out the amount of greenish yellowish goo at the tip of the 50ml tubes :eek:

Hope this will be a warning and of help to people with new (thermochill) rads, to do a thorough cleaning, or end up like me :(

[xVeinx]

You could always use a 22 micro filter or whatman paper :). Sorry that happened!

Which institution do you work at, what type of lab?

[Navanod]

You could always use a 22 micro filter or whatman paper :). Sorry that happened!

Which institution do you work at, what type of lab?

Filtration would be a royal pain with a syringe attachment since I do not want to use the lab's vacuum pumps
Reason being, that I work at a biomedical research lab...don't want some exotic bacteria or tumor cells growing in my PC ICE :rofl:

edit: wait, just saw that its 22 micron LOL. I'm used to 0.3 micron filters (takes out those nasty bacteria), which will take forever to filter. Let me see if I can find any 22 micron paper, no harm giving that bottle one additional round of cleaning

Institute...? Would my boss read XS? :rolleyes:

[xVeinx]

Institute...? Would my boss read XS? :rolleyes:

I was just curious where you worked, wasn't sure if it was at a university or a biotech. That's all :)

[Navanod]

I was just curious where you worked, wasn't sure if it was at a university or a biotech. That's all :)

:p:
kinda OT, but its a University lab. Actually, its two University's lab since its a shared venture

I shall keep the names to myself for now...just in case :D

[fart_plume]

one way to swap your tubing out is get a long rod and fasten a cotton ball on the end wet it down and run it through the tube just like cleaning a rifle.

[RADCOM]

:p:
kinda OT, but its a University lab. Actually, its two University's lab since its a shared venture

I shall keep the names to myself for now...just in case :D
You mean that isn't you in the picture :ROTF: Seems your PC Ice is good enough to drink Now. Mighty fine cleaning
:up:

[sirheck]

Man you guys scare me.

I wonder if the running/flushing hot water actually loosens up
Some of the flux shistuff.

All i ever do is hold the in/outs of the radiator about 3 inches from
the fuacet and let the water flowthru while looking to see how it
looks coming out, and for only about a minute or two.

Then i slap it together.
I have never had any kinda of discoloration(except for some blue silicone looking junk) in my apogee cpu block which came from my CM hydra gpu cooler.


:shrug:

[Navanod]

You mean that isn't you in the picture :ROTF: Seems your PC Ice is good enough to drink Now. Mighty fine cleaning
:up:

:rofl:

No that isn't me!

http://images.google.com.sg/images?hl=en&q=samhui&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

he's a Hong Kong star from the 1980's
:ROTF:

LOL at my sig one more time!!

The PC ICE is clean but goodness knows what's dissolved in it now...can't clean out soluables using centrifugation

[Navanod]

one way to swap your tubing out is get a long rod and fasten a cotton ball on the end wet it down and run it through the tube just like cleaning a rifle.

Thanks, will try that out since one of the longer tubing is still not 100% clean (couldn't reach the middle portion with the brush)

Speaking of rifles...I wish I still had that 3 piece rod back from my old army days (all males here have to serve 2.5 yrs in the army from the age of 18 :shakes:)

That'll make pulling through tubings real easy :up:

[Big_Daddy]

heh, yeah, rifle/shotgun cleaning kits are real easy to get here in the states, $10 at any Walmart. Dunno bout over there. Best thing is, you can get 2 of them, and clean even the longest run of tubing.

[Navanod]

A day of flushing with multiple hot water, alcohol and running water cycles and still the darn thing is releasing flux particles (visible by shining a torch light into the water)
How much flux is in that darn radiator?! To think I had already removed so much by using it in my loop for all these time!

[Skauneboy]

I'm having the same problem. Before I assembled my loop I went overkill on the cleaning just to make sure no flux was left in the radiator. About one hour of flushing with hot water straight out of the tap, two soaks with 99% Isopropyl, 10+ shake sessions with hot distilled water, 2 soaks with distilled. To no avail I'm afraid. One month after assembly the tubing started to cloud and after six months it was completely white.

I disassembled the loop to try and clean it up. All parts of the loop had a white, powderish film which didn't dissolve with Isopropyl or hot water so I decided to see what vinegar could do. I put a piece of the tubing in a warm vinegar solution and indeed it reacted with the white stuff and cleaned the tubing pretty well. I cleaned the radiator using the same procedure as the first time but also added a vinegar flush since it did such a good job on the tubing. The result? Clouding after one week, completely white after a month :shrug:

Six months later on I have once again disassembled to make place for some new parts and the white stuff now has company with rust coloured stuff :D I've used nothing but distilled + one drop of PT Nuke btw and the liquid itself looks fairly clean. The inside of the radiator however, does not. The ends of the tubes have a white film and the end tank is covered by something I can only describe as rust. When I read about people just cleaning their PA's with a few rinses of hot distilled without any problems I can't believe we have the same radiator.

[Navanod]

Good grief...could this be the main reason for clouding? hahaha

[eternal_fantasy]

Just speaking from experience, I actually believe that it wasn't the flux inside the TC rad that was breaking up and entering your coolant, but actually the biocide/corrosion inhibitor additives precipitation out as it reacts with your tubing.

To give you an example:

I had ordered 2 TC PA120.3, and both went through 30 minutes of hot water running through them. Nothing exotic.
One loop, cooling my 2 VGAs, after running exclusively with Innovatek protect IP, for 3 months, the tubing was clear as it was the first day, with VERY slight yellowing, only visible when compared with new, unused tubing. The tubing used was Innovatek 10/8mm.

The other loop, cooling only the CPU, was a different story. Because I wanted to place the radiator near the window, I had to buy extra tubing as the window was about 3 meter from my PC, and I only had a little of the Innovatek tubing left. so from the Res-Pump-CPU block I used the Innovatek tubing, but the rest was some cheap Alphacool PVC ones. In the same 3 month period, the Alphacool tubing was coated with the white precipitate, and bits of it was floating inside the reservoir, whilest the Innovatek tubing part was clear and spotless. After I had attained some more of the Innov tubing, no more white gunk was seen ever since.

So maybe it wasn't the leftover flux after all. My first rad, a black ICE, ran fine with tygon tubing and all, no white gunk whatsoever, but after a month I was told I needed to add some corrosion inhibitor-biocide, I did, and after a few days the tubing became cloudy...

I really do think the corrosion inhibitors/biocides are coming out of solution, or are reacting with the tubing, forming the precipitate. And once the thickness start to build up, it gets flushed into your reservoir. You can try just pure distilled water, no nuke, no additives, and see if you still get the clouding, or how bad it was compared with additives.

I of course can be wrong, or if you think I don't know anything and are dead set in your view, please ignore this post. However, you may looking in the wrong place for your issue, and are chasing ghost. Good luck, and hope this helps! :up:

[Navanod]

erm...if I'm only flushing the rad, without tubings?

What you've described may be plasticizer clouding...

[eternal_fantasy]

erm...if I'm only flushing the rad, without tubings?

What you've described may be plasticizer clouding...

Don't understand your first sentence...

And no, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten into the reservoir.

[menace2society]

I'm glad I didn't buy That Rad. :shocked:

For all of the performance gains, it seems like a Royal PITA. I'll gladly sacrifice a little performance for some peace of mind :2cents:

[Zaskar]

Good grief...could this be the main reason for clouding? hahaha

Id bet on it.

After reading what most people (even the stickied ones) suggest and do, its just simply not enough.

You can Not get these rads perfectly clean from adding water and shaking alone.

BTW eternal_fantasy, the rust you see, is it on the outside? If so that IS rust, TC rads have a steel casing and with that CRAPPY quality matte non sealing paint, it lets water soak RIGHT THROUGH it and contact the steel, meaning any water spilled on the rad casing itself will cause some surface rust to come up through the paint. Its a radiator that you cant get wet on the outside... Awesome design, Definitely worth not having to spend 5-8 bucks more for stainless sheet metal...

[IanY]

Why can't Thermochill bloody sell clean radiators? I would gladly pay $20 more per radiator to avoid this whole hassle of flux and flushing.

[IanY]

Thanks, will try that out since one of the longer tubing is still not 100% clean (couldn't reach the middle portion with the brush)

Speaking of rifles...I wish I still had that 3 piece rod back from my old army days (all males here have to serve 2.5 yrs in the army from the age of 18 :shakes:)

That'll make pulling through tubings real easy :up:

I still have the exact same good old three-piece rod, which I brought with me half way around the world. Remember flannelite... its amazing for cleaning tubes.. my brother shipped me some.. :)

You can also use a piece of rattan.. a cane comes to mind.

[Skauneboy]

BTW eternal_fantasy, the rust you see, is it on the outside?

I guess that was my post you were referring to. No, it's on the inside.

[Zeus]

Why can't Thermochill bloody sell clean radiators? I would gladly pay $20 more per radiator to avoid this whole hassle of flux and flushing.


I bet they don't know how to clean them properly themselves.

[IanY]

So, it rusts on the inside and outside :)

[IanY]

I bet they don't know how to clean them properly themselves.

Hahahahaha

[Nephilim]

My reservoir managed to stay clear for a remarkably long time running nothing but distilled water. I originally flushed once overnight with a full bucket of tapwater and a whole bunch of milky/oily crap came out.

I decided to add some zerex and almost as soon as the zerex hit the water (which was completely clear) it went milky :| The Zerex in my bottle is transparent purple.

I have a PA120.3 btw and only copper components.

[71 (Bryan)]

aperantly you guys have something to tell your chemistry teacher

[Skauneboy]

So, it rusts on the inside and outside :)

Unfortunately it looks like it does. Or could this be something else? :shrug:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/Skauneboy/P8070121.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/Skauneboy/P8070123.jpg

[IanY]

Ach Mein Gott in Himmel !!! :shocked:

[Navanod]

Don't understand your first sentence...

And no, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten into the reservoir.

I meant, that i had removed the rad and been flushing it on its own for quite a few days...

since there's no tubings, no coolant, where's that reaction coming from?

Your theory may be true, but it seemed unlikely that the rad was the only thing to be still "producing" these flakes of particles after so many rounds of washing (the blocks and tubings are perfectly clean now)

[Navanod]

I still have the exact same good old three-piece rod, which I brought with me half way around the world. Remember flannelite... its amazing for cleaning tubes.. my brother shipped me some.. :)

You can also use a piece of rattan.. a cane comes to mind.

Flannelite!!! I remembered that our armskote man valued it more than money :ROTF:
Looked just like toilet paper (but made of cloth) to me though :D

Guess what I used in the end?

Sleeving material!!! I had some unused sleeves for sleeving fan wires...and figured, what the hell, tied it to my brush, threaded it through the tubing, and PULL~~~ :yepp:

[Navanod]

Unfortunately it looks like it does. Or could this be something else? :shrug:

Good grief, thats not how mine looked like

perhaps I'm just being overly fussy?? the water coming out looks clear now...until I shine a torch light through it at certain angles

thats when I see those shiny particles...:shocked:

BY THE WAY, just read the entire thread

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133038

Not really helpful to me this late in my cleaning, but i suggest the rest take a long hard read, esp those using acid and vinegar...I'm staying far from that stuff

[Bojamijams]

I just want to add that my Hardware Labs BIX 480GT did not have ANY flux! I did the hot distilled flush and saw nothing.. been running it for 2 weeks now and the mcres is as clear as its ever been. Considering I got a 4fan rad for the price of a 120.3 and don't have this trouble, I'm REALLY freaking happy with my purchase now.

Just an fyi.. I don't know if mine was different, but HWLabs does a damn fine job IMO.

[cablesguy]

u just hv to keep at it until it clears, i used up more than 45ltrs of distilled in the process,

I think this is Rankers advice, sorry if its not:

"1) Buy 10 gallons of distilled water (how much is that in ltrs?, anyways i used up 50++ ltrs)
2) Fill radiator up with boiling DI water, cap, shake for 2 minutes (great forearm workout!) empty. Repeat 3-4 times.
3) Fill same radiator with boiling DI water again. This time, cap it off and leave it sitting for 3-4 days.
4) 3-4 days later, boil more water, and soak all of your waterblocks in the boiling water. Use tongs to handle your components or wear gloves to not leave oils or what not on your blocks.
5) Dry all of your blocks using coffee pads or your woman's make-up pads and rest them on something lint free.
6) Open up your radiator(s) that's been sitting and pour out contents. You'll notice milky stuff come out. Now flush 2-3 times again with room temperature DI water.
7) Pour boiling water down your tubes.

Now you're good to go with the installation process =)"

Heres a pic I took during cleaning

[IanY]

Ten gallons of water, you say lol

[menace2society]

u just hv to keep at it until it clears, i used up more than 45ltrs of distilled in the process,

I think this is Rankers advice, sorry if its not:

"1) Buy 10 gallons of distilled water (how much is that in ltrs?, anyways i used up 50++ ltrs)
2) Fill radiator up with boiling DI water, cap, shake for 2 minutes (great forearm workout!) empty. Repeat 3-4 times.
3) Fill same radiator with boiling DI water again. This time, cap it off and leave it sitting for 3-4 days.
4) 3-4 days later, boil more water, and soak all of your waterblocks in the boiling water. Use tongs to handle your components or wear gloves to not leave oils or what not on your blocks.
5) Dry all of your blocks using coffee pads or your woman's make-up pads and rest them on something lint free.
6) Open up your radiator(s) that's been sitting and pour out contents. You'll notice milky stuff come out. Now flush 2-3 times again with room temperature DI water.
7) Pour boiling water down your tubes.

Now you're good to go with the installation process =)"

Heres a pic I took during cleaning

Can't understand why someone would go through all of that when this product should CLEARLY be deemed DEFECTIVE :down:
Can only imagine the damage to the other components in the loop
This product should never be recommended regardless of what the numbers say and Thermochill should be ashamed for releasing such shoddy products :slapass:


Keep it:pimp:

[Navanod]

Can't understand why someone would go through all of that when this product should CLEARLY be deemed DEFECTIVE :down:
Can only imagine the damage to the other components in the loop
This product should never be recommended regardless of what the numbers say and Thermochill should be ashamed for releasing such shoddy products :slapass:


Keep it:pimp:

I wouldn't go so far as to make such a claim

but then again, it is very irritating to have to take so much time, effort and still ended up with crap in the loop, esp when one has paid a premium price for it

[cablesguy]

truth be told, i was beginning to wonder when it would start to clear n why it wasnt at the very least partially factory cleaned....cost maybe :confused:

As to my being extreme, comparatively here, on a scale of 1 to 10, im far frm it, maybe 1 to 1.5 :D

But i think i got all the gunked out as my tubing is still clear after 6-7 months

[Navanod]

truth be told, i was beginning to wonder when it would start to clear n why it wasnt at the very least partially factory cleaned....cost maybe :confused:

As to my being extreme, comparatively here, on a scale of 1 to 10, im far frm it, maybe 1 to 1.5 :D

But i think i got all the gunked out as my tubing is still clear after 6-7 months

Yea, i think the trick is to not go overboard with the cleaning and start using harsh and extreme things on the rad...may end up dislodging things that wasn't meant to be flushed out...hence the endless gunk

I'll give it one last hot water flush and put it back into service, whatever's left should eventually be flushed out over the next few months of use :)

[Nater]

What about muratic acid (sp?)? I remember a friend of mine used it to clean a car radiator and it did wonders. I was a bit hesitant to use it on my Thermochill rads. Quite honestly, I'm not at all surprised with Thermochill's shoddy manufacturing. They're made in the UK after all. Anyone ever owned a British car?

I think my PA120.2 will be my last Thermochill purchase. I'm going with Feser for super-high-end builds and Swiftech for everything else.

[jonny_ftm]

There was never problems with thermochill radiators till so many noob came buying them and adding some exotic chemicals in their loops with crappy tubing

Maybe get good tubing, no additives and you can use your thermochill again

[Navanod]

There was never problems with thermochill radiators till so many noob came buying them and adding some exotic chemicals in their loops with crappy tubing

Maybe get good tubing, no additives and you can use your thermochill again

i'm using tygon and PC ICE clear (no dye)

it didn't do anything to my last few loops and ran 18months straight without needing a change (rad was MCR220 in that loop)

i'm sure there're just as many running straight distilled and tygon with the same crap problem

[Rinaun]

use boiling vinegar. Its an old trick used by liquid engineers to purge radiators. For every degree vinegar gets warmer, the volatility of it increased. two cups of hot (not boiling) vinegar for 1 minute in rad will clean it like its brand new. This in effects eats away 1/1000th of the copper, making a new virgin connection with the water. Be careful though, leaving hot vinegar can dissolve copper easily!

[Rinaun]

What about muratic acid (sp?)? I remember a friend of mine used it to clean a car radiator and it did wonders. I was a bit hesitant to use it on my Thermochill rads. Quite honestly, I'm not at all surprised with Thermochill's shoddy manufacturing. They're made in the UK after all. Anyone ever owned a British car?

huh? just because some british cars suck doesn't mean they all suck. I mean, most american cars suck. I would avoid using muriatic acid. I consider that stuff pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

[cablesguy]

18 months sounds good, i thot of cleaning and rebuilding the loop every 6 months, maybe ill postpone it a little.

Im also using Tygon and PC Ice no dye, well actually i got the Invisible Blue which looks clear but supposedly turns UV Blue under UV...but somehow I didnt see any UV. That aside no complains.

On a side note, I just got hold of a TFC 240, the TC does look to be more solid tho', plus the TFC has a hollow sound when i knock the sides, iinm i read someone here with the same experience.

[Rinaun]

pc ice < water wetter imo.

[jonny_ftm]

18 months sounds good, i thot of cleaning and rebuilding the loop every 6 months, maybe ill postpone it a little.

Im also using Tygon and PC Ice no dye, well actually i got the Invisible Blue which looks clear but supposedly turns UV Blue under UV...but somehow I didnt see any UV. That aside no complains.

On a side note, I just got hold of a TFC 240, the TC does look to be more solid tho', plus the TFC has a hollow sound when i knock the sides, iinm i read someone here with the same experience.

I see others noted the same thing. I posted something about it few days ago.

Back to topic, I didn't have any problems with my PA120.3, on two loops, using either hydrix and now the Feser premixed stuff

I will soon build my new setup with one more PA120.3 and a PA120.2 and let you know if I see some garbadge in my loop, but I doubt it. If you use distilled no additives, it won't hurt

[Skauneboy]

Any guesses on what that red/brown stuff in my radiator might be and how to clean it? Under what conditions would brass or copper oxidize in that way?

[jonny_ftm]

Any guesses on what that red/brown stuff in my radiator might be and how to clean it? Under what conditions would brass or copper oxidize in that way?

It just shows it is some reaction between your additives and something else in the components

[Skauneboy]

I don't see how distilled + one drop of PT Nuke would be any worse than HydrX or Feser though. As you can see in my sig I'm not running mixed metals either. Anyway, as long as that oxidation stays put and doesn't stain my loop I'm not too bothered.

[Rinaun]

Any guesses on what that red/brown stuff in my radiator might be and how to clean it? Under what conditions would brass or copper oxidize in that way?

looks like algae to me. I highly doubt its rust.

[menace2society]

There was never problems with thermochill radiators till so many noob came buying them and adding some exotic chemicals in their loops with crappy tubing

Maybe get good tubing, no additives and you can use your thermochill again

There was always a problem with thermochill and the" noob's" as you call them, uncovered it.

As long as the attitude towards this product does not change, the product wont change :shakes:

Thermochill will continue with business as usual because the numbers support business as usual.

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it :rolleyes:

I think this community, if no other community, should hold Thermochill to task, and until sombody does we can only expect more of the same s:banana::banana:t for product.

:shoot:Thermochill

Keep it:pimp:

[IanY]

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it :rolleyes:



Sounds just like an Enzo lol :)

[jonny_ftm]

There is nothing wrong with TC rads. Seems to be a bunch of loose nuts behind the keyboards...

If you don't like'em, then don't buy'em...

+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

[Zaskar]

There was always a problem with thermochill and the" noob's" as you call them, uncovered it.

As long as the attitude towards this product does not change, the product wont change :shakes:

Thermochill will continue with business as usual because the numbers support business as usual.

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it :rolleyes:

I think this community, if no other community, should hold Thermochill to task, and until sombody does we can only expect more of the same s:banana::banana:t for product.

:shoot:Thermochill

Keep it:pimp:

Problem is, while its expensive, the manufacturing cost is still higher as is then most other rads. To have the pre cleaned would add close to $10-$15 to the cost, or else they wouldn't make much money.

Personally I think it would be worth a few extra bucks for them to use some kind of rad flush when their pressure/leak testing the rads, to make the post purchase flushing a bit easier, but whether that's worth it for you is personal preference. Many seem to not like Feser rads cause their 15-20 bucks more, so many probably wouldn't.

[menace2society]

There is nothing wrong with TC rads. Seems to be a bunch of loose nuts behind the keyboards...

If you don't like'em, then don't buy'em...

I didn't :clap: :clap:


Problem is, while its expensive, the manufacturing cost is still higher as is then most other rads. To have the pre cleaned would add close to $10-$15 to the cost, or else they wouldn't make much money.

Personally I think it would be worth a few extra bucks for them to use some kind of rad flush when their pressure/leak testing the rads, to make the post purchase flushing a bit easier, but whether that's worth it for you is personal preference. Many seem to not like Feser rads cause their 15-20 bucks more, so many probably wouldn't.

Don't mean to sound crass, but how do you know what manufacturing to profitability cost are?

What ever the costs are leaving the Rad dirty should not be a option.



+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

Thermochill doesn't make there Rads out anything DIFFERENT then Swiftech,HWlabs or anybody else and if it's not happening with the other Rads and these "bizarre additives" .... Then who should be held accountable Thermochill or the boogieman :shrug:

[jonny_ftm]

Thermochill doesn't make there Rads out anything DIFFERENT then Swiftech,HWlabs or anybody else and if it's not happening with the other Rads and these "bizarre additives" .... Then who should be held accountable Thermochill or the boogieman :shrug:

boogieman FTW :D


Seriously, a coolant that reacts that bad should be avoided, not the radiator. Further more, someone else noted it could be tubing related too. Maybe it is more complex: tubing, additive, WB component...

Anyway, just fill your radiator with the coolant and let it few days. If it comes milky, than maybe it is the radiator+coolant reaction, which I doubt.

Than try it with pure distilled and see.

Do the same with a piece of the tubing

If you do all of this, give us some feedback. That will be contributing posting instead of throwing the fault to thermochill whithout even knowing what's the milky stuff you're seeing

[gojirasan]

Thermochill rads are so popular around here. I wonder if they are mostly to blame for the clouding issue. I have two and one of them had something like twice as much flux that I was able to wash out with boiling distilled water. I think that shows how much variability there is for individual rads. Some will be easier to clean than others. It seems like we haven't yet discovered a method to remove all of the flux. As far as soaking the rad for days, I haven't had much luck with that. It didn't seem to remove any more gunk than it did waiting an hour for the boiling water to cool down to room temp again. I think the only way is to use a stream of tap water for a really long time. Maybe days. Or to just keep cycling through boiling water again and again and again. The essential problem of course is that we can't get in there with a brush to physically scrub the stuff out. Maybe it's really best to pair the TC rads with completely opaque (as opposed to merely translucent) tubing.

[Navanod]

+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

In caase you didn't read the link I had posted, here it is again

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133038

The main point I would like to draw your attention to would be the fact that Thermochill only changed to water soluable flux early last year.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2009139&postcount=49

Which means your last 50 decades of happy usage have little relevance and is moot in this discussion.
Unless you have a water soluable flux PA120, please stop the name calling (eg. noobs)

Our complaints are not without reasons. If you see that thread linked above, there're plenty of non-noobs having the same issues.

You're starting a new build with 2 more of the rads. Are they brand new and made after feb 2007?
If so, maybe you can have a taste of the amount of dirt in it. Give some constructive feedbacks as well instead of pointing at un-named boogie coolants and tubings

[IanY]

Again, 17.5 gallons of distilled water :)

Forget North Sea and West Texas crude. I wonder if they sell distilled water call options and long future contracts. :D

[Zaskar]

rant, rant, rant....... Give it up.....

I bought the following Thermochill Radiators:

(4) PA120.3
(1) Pa120.2

I used 10 gallons of boiling distilled water to clean them, followed with @ 7.5 gallons of room temp distilled water.... :up:

No flux left in MY rads.... :up:

Sounds to me like you peeps are just Anti-ThermoChill.... Sell them or don't buy them and move on..........:horse:

Didn't you also like me spend an abnormally long amount of time flushing the rads though, and at least even considered using the Pentec filter just to be safe even if its overkill?

At the very least id recommend that people spend a little more time flushing the rads then is usually suggested (which usually was around 4-10 fills/shakes and then your done) just to be safe.

[IanY]

To be honest, my OC problems caused me to use that much distilled. Around 5 gal. would have been sufficient. :up:

Then again, after spending upwards of $5-6k on MY build, what does it hurt to buy 20 gal. of distilled??? Apparently, I don't have a problem spending $$$. It's only the po that seem to complain.... :shrug:


It's real simple math here peeps....:idea:

You have NO $$$ = Swifty radiators :down:

You HAVE $$$ = Better performing ThermoChill radiators :up:

There, that wasn't so hard, was it......:clap:


Yo.. I bought 22 gallons of distilled water in one go myself. I still use mainly tap water to clean, except for the final rinse, but whatever floats your boat.

Buy TC when it makes sense. Buy MCR when it makes sense.

If I could fit double the amount of rads, I would buy twice the number in MCRs. Since I am always space limited, I stick to TCs. You can't cramp 8 MCRs into a case.

[Zaskar]

Well yea, just saying that if your having a great experience with them it might be because you also spent what would be considered overkill in cleaning them.

So for the purpose of being constructive (if thats truly what your trying to be) it might not be a bad idea to also recommend others to be a bit overly thorough in flushing these rads, just in case the new flux they use in them does indeed take a bit longer to get out then the older ones.

Just saying you have no problems and that its other people is kinda funny to say when you flushed your rad like 4 times more thoroughly then is normally recommended to people :rofl: Maybe that extra flushing work was the reason it has no issues, and should also be recommended to others using them now.

[IanY]

I spend about 20 minutes tops cleaning my radiators lol

I don't lose sleep about nonsense like that.

[Zaskar]

I spend about 20 minutes tops cleaning my radiators lol

I don't lose sleep about nonsense like that.

20 minutes shaking, or with the power washer? :ROTF:

[IanY]

In total. The power washer goes for about 10 seconds.. and its enough :)

I doubt the shaking part lasts for more than 30 seconds.

I couldn't care less about cloudiness unless my tubes get clogged and the temps rise. I'm moving to Norprene. Don't really like R3400 because of its stiffness, and Tygon Silver is also stiff but its slightly better.

And I don't have rusty TC rads either. Mine have all taken massive water baths too... you can imagine the power washer..

Every 6 months, they get torned down and cleaned out too... with tap water...

[Zaskar]

In total. The power washer goes for about 10 seconds.. and its enough :)

I doubt the shaking part lasts for more than 30 seconds.

I couldn't care less about cloudiness unless my tubes get clogged and the temps rise. I'm moving to Norprene. Don't really like R3400 because of its stiffness, and Tygon Silver is also stiff but its slightly better.

Tube cloudiness shouldn't matter as long as its from plasticizer and not some other gunk, cause then that means its also coating the blocks and in the accelerator plate :P

I bought a foot of the 1/2" ID 3/4" OD Neoprene, its really cool yet weird stuff. It wants to spring back to the original shape even with the slightest bend. If you haven't yet get a foot or 2 before you buy the entire order just to make sure it will work for what you need it too.


And RRR then instead of just telling others having issues that it must be their fault, you might also want to mention in those condescending posts that you also spent the entire day cleaning the rads that your having no issues with. Like I said though, this only applies if you actually care about "helping" and not just kinda acting like your better.

Vinegar really should Not have any issues with the rad btw, its probably not needed and I wouldn't personally recommend it but it wont do Any damage unless left in there for hours.

[Zaskar]

Well that answers the question about whether or not you actually want to be constructive.

Please, continue crapping on threads, and insulting others like your some sort of expert.

[Bojamijams]

A little advice, you seriously need to watch your personal attacks. It's not kosher....

:shocked:

That was ironic.

[Xilikon]

R3, You don't have a problem because YOU TOOK A INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME TO CLEAN IT OFF !!!

Here's my own experience : I bought the TC radiator directly from the TC factory in the UK (cheaper than ordering from the US) and when I got it, I did a normal cleanup, flushing about 3-4 gallons of water and shaking a bit. I setup the loop and let it run without problems. 3 weeks later, the tubing is getting brown/greenish even if I used distilled water + PT Nuke only so I disassembled it, tried to flush the radiator just to notice the water is still trouble ! I spend the whole evening flushing it with BOILING WATER from the kettle, shaked it a lot and let it sit for 30 mins each time. I did it until the water coming out of the radiator in the glass is still transparent. After this, it works fine and the reservoir remained clean (I replaced the tubing with Tygon R-3400 at the same time).

Now, I recently bought a HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 for my HTPC box and I did 40 mins of cleaning just to notice the water is almost always clean each time I flushed. I setup a test loop with all the components and after 1 month of running, it's still clean. This is what I expect TC to do and they are too lazy, despite the high price.

Beside the cleaning issue, I love the TC radiator and I'll keep it until it leak (not for 10 years for sure). Your attempts to defend based on YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE only is not necessarily a good idea because the majority will agree with me and navanod about the TC cleaning issue. Those who say that it's a issue with chemical reaction, I'm a strong believer of distilled water only with PT Nuke (1 drop per liter).

[Bojamijams]

Now, I recently bought a HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 for my HTPC box and I did 40 mins of cleaning just to notice the water is almost always clean each time I flushed.


Same thing with my BIX 480GT. HWLabs does it right. Thermochill's QA is total and utter shyte.

[Zaskar]

Wait what? I was saying that this kind of cleaning should Not be seen as excessive and instead recommended for all who want to use these rads, instead of just telling people its their fault. You didn't apparently seem to agree in the post I assume you deleted at the bottom of the last page.

[sirheck]

Well that answers the question about whether or not you actually want to be constructive.

Please, continue crapping on threads, and insulting others like your some sort of expert.


The above has some truth to it.

[Martinm210]

Why can't Thermochill bloody sell clean radiators? I would gladly pay $20 more per radiator to avoid this whole hassle of flux and flushing.

No kidding...they should come flushed and clean already..:shrug:

[Xilikon]

IYO, what I did to clean MY ThermoChill PA radiators, seems excessive to YOU...

I did my research, prior to choosing to spend MY $$$ on ThermoChill radiators. Therefore, I knew what I was going to do to clean them before I even bought them.

@Zaskar....

I believe I have repeatedly stated, contrary to your statements, what I did to clean my PA radiators, on multiple threads..??

If you don't want to spend time cleaning your radiator(s), prior to using them, then buy something besides ThermoChill radiators...

It's that easy.....

I bought it in fall 2007 and not a lot of people posted infos about how crappy TC did the flushing so most of us learned the hard way about this. You came here much later so you already have the previous experience of others so you know what you are getting ;)

Now that TFC, HWLabs and Swiftech seems to be good alternatives by Martinm210's reviews, TC is now becoming a overpriced dirty radiator and this is a bit unacceptable. See Martinm210's comment above my post to show what I'm telling.

EDIT : To clarify my point, the beef with TC radiators is that others which is priced similarly or cheaper, are all much more cleaner than TC. For the price we pay, we expect them to do some good flushing, which would be easy to do since they also do leak checking.

[IanY]

Well that answers the question about whether or not you actually want to be constructive.

Please, continue crapping on threads, and insulting others like your some sort of expert.


I suppose you don't appreciate my contrarian viewpoints :) Well, get used to my differences in opinion from a general consensus. I have questioned and butted heads with almost every expert on XS that you can name, including Cathar and Marci. As much as I irritated them, they have heard from me many times. My persistent reminders as to TC cleaning and paint, etc., is one of the main reasons why Marci disappeared from XS. Therefore, don't for a moment believe that I'm TC's little fanboy. I have been as hard on TC as I can ever be, and you wouldn't imagine how rough I was on Marci.

Now, as to plasticizers, none of that has ever been an issue with me. I will not own a EK Supreme, no matter what, because I disagree with its construction. Even though Naekuh champions its design, its not for me, so I probably will never own one. Therefore, the clogging concerns are not present for me. I haven't seen the internals of the Apogee GTZ, so I cannot yet come to any conclusions. However, knowing that its an impingement based block makes me shun away from it too.

Anyway, there is always a diversity of opinions on XS, and many people use the opinion of the experts here as a barometer for their decision making. I don't and never will. Another instance is the "1 GPM of flow is plenty and 1.5 GPM is excellent" viewpoint. I would say 4 out of 5 experts on XS believe that. I'm no expert, but I just laugh.

[Zaskar]

:D Thats great and all man, but wasn't referring to you, it was to the post above mine from RRR that he deleted :P

[[XC] riptide]

I suppose you don't appreciate my contrarian viewpoints :) Well, get used to my differences in opinion from a general consensus. I have questioned and butted heads with almost every expert on XS that you can name, including Cathar and Marci. As much as I irritated them, they have heard from me many times. My persistent reminders as to TC cleaning and paint, etc., is one of the main reasons why Marci disappeared from XS. Therefore, don't for a moment believe that I'm TC's little fanboy. I have been as hard on TC as I can ever be, and you wouldn't imagine how rough I was on Marci.

Now, as to plasticizers, none of that has ever been an issue with me. I will not own a EK Supreme, no matter what, because I disagree with its construction. Even though Naekuh champions its design, its not for me, so I probably will never own one. Therefore, the clogging concerns are not present for me. I haven't seen the internals of the Apogee GTZ, so I cannot yet come to any conclusions. However, knowing that its an impingement based block makes me shun away from it too.

Anyway, there is always a diversity of opinions on XS, and many people use the opinion of the experts here as a barometer for their decision making. I don't and never will. Another instance is the "1 GPM of flow is plenty and 1.5 GPM is excellent" viewpoint. I would say 4 out of 5 experts on XS believe that. I'm no expert, but I just laugh.

I would strongly disagree with that. :yepp:

[Zaskar]

What post ???? :shrug:

The one that was post 73, if you didn't delete it then I guess a mod did.

You remember, the one where you quoted all of post 72 and just responded with the "That was gay" emote.

[IanY]

riptide;3204039']I would strongly disagree with that. :yepp:

Then there's something that I am not aware of :yepp:

[Marci]

is one of the main reasons why Marci disappeared from XS.
Remove head from arse please. I got a new job, simple as that - you ain't THAT important to my life and posting habits d00d.

[Kibbler]

Remove head from arse please. I got a new job, simple as that - you ain't THAT important to my life and posting habits d00d.
epic burn:lol2::lol2:

[Mankz_91]

You HAVE $$$ = Better performing ThermoChill radiators :up:

There, that wasn't so hard, was it......:clap:

Don't you mean Feser radiators? :rofl:

[naokaji]

No kidding...they should come flushed and clean already..:shrug:

QFT, especially outside of america where they dont sell gallons of distilled water at every corner.

[menace2society]

For the premium you pay for TC rads you should expect a more finished product. There is absolutely no reason for this product or any other to come to market needing this much after perches care before it is usable.

These Rads in there current state should be deem completely unacceptable
and why they are not is beyond all logic. :shakes:

[menace2society]

@Menace...

You don't own a TC rad, yet you continue to beat them down, WOW...

A fool can learn from his own mistakes but it takes a WISE man to learn from the mistakes of others

[eXa]

Still u got an GTS 360 X-flow....

Seriously, why are u bashing the TC rads...? They have been kings for years and still is one of the 2 best rads out there...

[Martinm210]

QFT, especially outside of america where they dont sell gallons of distilled water at every corner.

I wouldn't stress the "Distilled" issue, just use tap water. While I do make sure I run distilled water in my loop, I don't bother when flushing.

I think we're all anal about that, noone has proven that using tapwater for flushing anything is going to hurt anything. Pick up your favorite car radiator flush kit, does is say hook up your hose to your favorite distilled pressure system?

My vote for cleaning a rad is, buy a hose nipple for your faucet, crank it on hot and let it do it's thing into your sink basin. Then reverse flush, do that back and forth a few times and if it makes you happy dump some distilled down after your tap water flushing.

I've never bothered using distilled water for flushing and never had any problems..:shrug:

I'd recommend flushing with hot tap water really well both directions then shake out the tap water and finish off with a little distilled in there. It seems like you can get much better cleaning by a nice hot high flow rate out of your faucet both directions than you can boiling the rad in a pan of water?

[menace2society]

So, you're making a feeble attempt at defending yourself, right?

You did admit, in your own way, that you don't own any Thermochill rads, therefore you really have no basis for your continued bashing, right?? :shrug:

I can assure anybody considering buying a TC rad, you will not be disappointed. The utter joy of superior performance, with sub-1000rpm fans, pure heaven....:)

My position needs no defence. I nether like or dislike thermochill.

My position is simply this:

ANY product that is considered a finished product that is not emeadiatly usable upon completion of purchase could and should be deem defective.

[menace2society]

Your intitled to your own opinion, as I am of mine...

IMO, you are off base in regards to what you deem defective...

Do you buy groceries?? If you buy fresh vegetables, then I assume every vegetable you bought was defective, because they need to be cleaned via a rinse job in water prior to consumption, therefore they do not meet your criteria for immediately ready to be used as is...:)

This is not my opinion, I simply paraphrased in to a few sentences what the courts can consider when determining weather a manufacturer can be legally liable or not.

And buy the way vegetable are not manufactured

[largon]

menace2society,
Enlighten me how does the flux affect the radiator's performance?
It's annoying, sure, but it certainly doesn't affect thermals...

RealRedRaider,
I'm sure asparagus isn't...

[Bojamijams]

And God is manufactured, by Man. But thats another story...

[largon]

Bojamijams,
Touché!
http://largon.wippiespace.com/smilies/duel.gif

[menace2society]

menace2society,
Enlighten me how does the flux affect the radiator's performance?
It's annoying, sure, but it certainly doesn't affect thermals...

RealRedRaider,
I'm sure asparagus isn't...

Performance is not relevant to the merits of this argument

[Bojamijams]

Bojamijams,
Touché!
http://largon.wippiespace.com/smilies/duel.gif

While you're watching this thread, I wanted to thank you for the work you put in the 8800GT voltmod thread. I was afraid of doing soldering and just insited on doing the softmod but 1.1V will only get you so far and my temperatures are far too low so I'm going to give it a shot when I get back from my business trip.

[Martinm210]

You guys crack me up...lol!

[sirheck]

You guys crack me up...lol!

Hey Martin.
Your wrong!
DOH im wrong!
Quit touching me!!
But,but he did it first!!
Yeah but he called me a %$^&


:ROTF:

[Xilikon]

With such a petty debate, here's a good analogy to show why it's unacceptable like that but not defective :

You have a wallet full of bucks and no car so you need to get a nice car to suit your blingy lifestyle. After looking around, you fall in love with a Mercedes CLS63 AMG in the showroom so you proceed to buy it with a car salesman and pay cash for it. As you walk out with excitation to get such a exclusive car, the car salesman tell you will get it in one week (special delivery and such). When you get a phone call to learn that the car is ready to be picked up, you will go to the dealer then the salesman will show you your car. Your jaw drop to the floor at the sight of the car : A nice dark grey paint filled with lots and lots of dead hornets and bird poop all over the car. The salesman said that washing this car is not included and he dare to tell you to wash the car yourself. Will you find this acceptable ?

[menace2society]

You guys crack me up...lol!

Has gotten a little childish has it

I argue almost daily so somtimes it's hard to stop myself:lol2: :slapass:

:peace:

[largon]

Truth to be told I too was pretty pissed to TC after seeing there's a horrible load of the flux crap inside the rad. I did try to flush it out with gallons and gallons of cold and room and boiling water. It appears I didn't quite succeed as even today - 18 months later - the stuff is floating in my res...
:\

Bojamijams,
If you're a bit unsure about the soldering it can't hurt to poke some old boards&cards with the iron just to practice. Then few tips for the real deal:
If soldering on the small dot doesn't bag on the first time make sure the area cools down before retrying. Also, glue the wire on the board an inch back from the wire's end you're going to solder.
=)

[Navanod]

Truth to be told I too was pretty pissed to TC after seeing there's a horrible load of the flux crap inside the rad. I did try to flush it out with gallons and gallons of cold and room and boiling water. It appears I didn't quite succeed as even today - 18 months later - the stuff is floating in my res...
:\


Thats the entire point of me starting this thread!!!
I'm not saying TC is complete utter crap and that I'm just gonna sit here and throw rants all day long

I just wanted to discuss cleaning methods, and most importantly, find out if other's are like you, still seeing crap in their loop months later despite having cleaned their loop and getting clean water coming out for a few days.

I.E. DOES SEEING CLEAN WATER FLUSHED OUT = The rad is clean?

Until these condescending remarks started coming in...and turned the thread into a cat fight. :ROTF:

[eXa]

With such a petty debate, here's a good analogy to show why it's unacceptable like that but not defective :

You have a wallet full of bucks and no car so you need to get a nice car to suit your blingy lifestyle. After looking around, you fall in love with a Mercedes CLS63 AMG in the showroom so you proceed to buy it with a car salesman and pay cash for it. As you walk out with excitation to get such a exclusive car, the car salesman tell you will get it in one week (special delivery and such). When you get a phone call to learn that the car is ready to be picked up, you will go to the dealer then the salesman will show you your car. Your jaw drop to the floor at the sight of the car : A nice dark grey paint filled with lots and lots of dead hornets and bird poop all over the car. The salesman said that washing this car is not included and he dare to tell you to wash the car yourself. Will you find this acceptable ?

If all cars came dirty u wouldnt care that much.
All rads need cleaning before use.

[Navanod]

If all cars came dirty u wouldnt care that much.
All rads need cleaning before use.

If all rads required that amount of cleaning, I wouldn't care either, since the SOP would be well established

but imagine a car that you have to run through the car wash 5 times, followed by hand cleaning for an hour then driven around at 100km/hour for 2 hours to see if anymore dirt comes out of the nooks and crannies

compared to a normal car that you would run through a car wash once, followed by a quick hand wipe down

The thing is, everyone have their own home brew SOP for cleaning, and no one knows when is overkill (ie waste of time from that point on and potentially damaging) and when it is not truely clean but appears clean (such as my case, resulting in alot more cleaning work and wasted coolant)

We now know that it IS possible to clean the rad with nothing but hot water (thanks to R3) (no harsh chem needed) but it'll take a busload of water to do that.

I don't have hot taps, manually boiling water uses too much gas and time and distilled water ain't free either.
Hence, I was exploring the use of alcohol to reduce the number of hot flushes needed

[Navanod]

boil the water an place pot on top of bass speaker and crank up your favorite tune

home made ultrasonic cleaner

:rofl: Loud Bass does not = ultrasonic

But seriously dude, I have ultrasonic water baths in the lab too, just nothing big enough for the PA120.3. Otherwise, that baby would've taken a long dip!

[IanY]

Navanod,

We may have something new for the recruits on Tekong to do, besides sweeping leaves lol

[Navanod]

Navanod,

We may have something new for the recruits on Tekong to do, besides sweeping leaves lol

And running to touch trees + supporting falling walls

I'm sure these recruits will be VERY good at cleaning rads, whats with all that experience cleaning choked drains, clearing mud out of M16s and M203s, polishing boots, cleaning urine stains from "mushroom heads" of the urinals and flushing water down their own throats during water parades :rofl: :ROTF:

:confused: You just awoke all my horrid memories of that 2 years!!! ARGH~~~!!!
Knock it down!!!

[IanY]

And running to touch trees + supporting falling walls

I'm sure these recruits will be VERY good at cleaning rads, whats with all that experience cleaning choked drains, clearing mud out of M16s and M203s, polishing boots, cleaning urine stains from "mushroom heads" of the urinals and flushing water down their own throats during water parades :rofl: :ROTF:

:confused: You just awoke all my horrid memories of that 2 years!!! ARGH~~~!!!
Knock it down!!!

I got very good at polishing the soles of my shoes and trash can covers haha

You have to come up with some new parade drill commands... shake.. turn.. reverse.. shake... drain.. fill.. rinse... hahaha

[Martinm210]

I'd just like to give Navanod a BIG THANK YOU! for providing some great scientific results regarding the issue. I was aware of the issue through a few mixed threads, but I didn't realise there was that much quantity in the rad itself. I did have some issues with stuff coming out of my MCRs, but I havn't had any sort of issue like that with my HWlabs or TFC rads. I don't see why the radiators can't come cleaned by professional equipment, if it's a matter of cost, I'd be fine with paying the extra if need be. Anyhow, the photos and details was very good information and glad you shared it with us.

I always appreaciate when folks bring testing results/photos to the forums and share it with fellow members. I think it's what these forums are all about. Just one test result is worth 1000 opinions IMHO....

Testing and photos are the glue of the forums in helping other people, opinions and brand loyalty is a waste of bandwidth.

Great work!!, cheers to science!..:clap:

[Navanod]

Thank you Martin. You're too kind.

I've merely provided some shots of the amount of flux dirt centrifuged from a month's old liter of PC ICE. Nothing really as great and useful as yours and the other expert's work.
Was hoping to be able to provide some useful tips and such, but all I can suggest is to use 70% alcohol (will switch to 99% industrial ethanol if my next loop still fogs after all these cleaning) and to use a torchlight to verify that the clear water coming out is truely "clear"

[Navanod]

Did you ever consider the culprit is the "PC ICE" ???

Not for a moment. It worked fine in blackice and swiftech's rads.
Whats more, I had already flushed crap loads of the same stuff out using distilled water before actually running the rad in my loop with PC ICE.
The dirt is the same, so PC ICE is not "creating" any new kind of gunk

if PC ICE can clean this crap out totally, I'll gladly use it to flush the rad!!!

[Navanod]

Remove head from arse please. I got a new job, simple as that - you ain't THAT important to my life and posting habits d00d.

wow...just saw this post. And we thought you were MIA :)

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to start a flame thread or a customer :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing corner for TC rads (but this topic seems to inevidently come to such an end. I whined abit too :p).

I had read your posts on this issue in the other thread and I know your stand on this issue. So no point whacking a dead horse.

I'm hoping more people would share detailed experiences of cleaning out the flux (keyword being "detailed")


By the way, if you do find it worth replying to, may I know what is the max temperature the rad can withstand?

I have 2 more of these rads (120.3 and 120.2) and would like to stick'em in an autoclave (steam sterilizer)

121 degrees celsius @ ~0.5 MPa

I'm planning to prefill the rad with distilled water, stick it in and use the liquid cycle (to prevent superheating the prefill).
From the sound it it, temperature plays a big part in cleaning out the flux residues. So why not take it beyond boiling?

Pressure should be no problem since the rads would not be capped. that leaves only temperature...kinda worried that I would melt other parts that cannot withstand >100 degrees boiling temp

On top of melting all that flux, I hope to be killing off all the tiny lifeforms in it as well :D

I don't know how all these extreme methods can be customized for home use, but I'm sure if I can prove that higher temp = faster and more effective cleaning at no risk of damaging the rad, folks will innovate ;)

[Kibbler]

By the way, if you do find it worth replying to, may I know what is the max temperature the rad can withstand?

I have 2 more of these rads (120.3 and 120.2) and would like to stick'em in an autoclave (steam sterilizer)

121 degrees celsius @ ~0.5 MPa

I'm planning to prefill the rad with distilled water, stick it in and use the liquid cycle (to prevent superheating the prefill).
From the sound it it, temperature plays a big part in cleaning out the flux residues. So why not take it beyond boiling?

Pressure should be no problem since the rads would not be capped. that leaves only temperature...kinda worried that I would melt other parts that cannot withstand >100 degrees boiling temp

On top of melting all that flux, I hope to be killing off all the tiny lifeforms in it as well :D

I don't know how all these extreme methods can be customized for home use, but I'm sure if I can prove that higher temp = faster and more effective cleaning at no risk of damaging the rad, folks will innovate ;)
Wow. IF an autoclave works, would an oven? The paint might peel, and you will want to make sure that the steam can escape easily. After that's done how will you pour out the dirty prefill? Sucka's gonna be hot.

[Navanod]

Wow. IF an autoclave works, would an oven? The paint might peel, and you will want to make sure that the steam can escape easily. After that's done how will you pour out the dirty prefill? Sucka's gonna be hot.

Yes, the paint is one of my primary worries now...might cook'em right off!

The stream is free to escape through the barb holes, so no worries. And I can always wait for it to cool (or just dunk it in cool water) before handling.

I'm also worried if I might choke the autoclave up as well if too much gunk and paint falls off the rad :eek:

Looks like I'll just have to be more "discreet" :rolleyes:

[_G_]

I would be more concerned with the heat de-soldering the rad.

[Marci]

Max safe temp should be in region of 130 deg C... any hotter and de-soldering may become an issue.

[skinnee]

Glad to see you're still around Marci!!

[bluphysted]

Well, I've been silently reading this thread... not much to add, aside from the fact that my 120.3 is due to show up at my door any day now.

Being my first crack at WC, I'm a wee intimidated.

From what I gather (correct me where I'm wrong), I need to flush the rad 10-20 times with boiling hydrochloric acid, rattle it for a few days in an ultrasonic bath, a few more days in an autoclave, wave a chicken over my head a few times, then a light spritz of lambs blood for the sake of tradition.

I will flush my rad with straight up hot tap water once it gets here, demin final rinse, and report my experience.


(btw: I *do* have access to an adequately sized ultrasonic bath.. hopefully it doesn't come to that, but please mention if this is a bad idea or not)

[skinnee]

You forgot about sacrificing one of the small children in the neighborhood too! You'll need their wee little fingers to get into the G3/8 inlet/outlet.

[twwen2]

Well, I've been silently reading this thread... not much to add, aside from the fact that my 120.3 is due to show up at my door any day now.

Being my first crack at WC, I'm a wee intimidated.

From what I gather (correct me where I'm wrong), I need to flush the rad 10-20 times with boiling hydrochloric acid, rattle it for a few days in an ultrasonic bath, a few more days in an autoclave, wave a chicken over my head a few times, then a light spritz of lambs blood for the sake of tradition.

I will flush my rad with straight up hot tap water once it gets here, demin final rinse, and report my experience.


(btw: I *do* have access to an adequately sized ultrasonic bath.. hopefully it doesn't come to that, but please mention if this is a bad idea or not)

Haha that's great. :rofl:

Nah just use boiling water and flush with distilled. It's worked for the majority for years. It worked for me... :)

[sirheck]

Well, I've been silently reading this thread... not much to add, aside from the fact that my 120.3 is due to show up at my door any day now.

Being my first crack at WC, I'm a wee intimidated.

From what I gather (correct me where I'm wrong), I need to flush the rad 10-20 times with boiling hydrochloric acid, rattle it for a few days in an ultrasonic bath, a few more days in an autoclave, wave a chicken over my head a few times, then a light spritz of lambs blood for the sake of tradition.

I will flush my rad with straight up hot tap water once it gets here, demin final rinse, and report my experience.


(btw: I *do* have access to an adequately sized ultrasonic bath.. hopefully it doesn't come to that, but please mention if this is a bad idea or not)

HA-HA:ROTF:
Yeah i ran tap water through mine for about a minute or two then slapped it
togehter, that was 6 months ago.
Just added my NB to my loop 2 days ago and when draining everything
looked clear.

I even used condensed water from my home a/c.

[anzial]

Hey, is it still necessary to flush the PA120.3? Is tap water enough, or do I need something more serious (like boiling water or vinegar solution)?

[BlueAqua]

Just run the hottest tap water you can through it. I did about a 2 minute flush with hot tap water through my Thermochill. That seemed to do the trick.

Once that is done just flush it with some distilled water a few times.