Delays and lack of communication with Jin on build #2

[Buckeye]

Ok I hate very much starting this thread but the time has come for it. After the first thread I posted here I am again.

Tomorrow will be 18 weeks that this build has been going on. I was not going to list a history at first but I decided that it would better show what is going on.

Back on 3/9/2008 I contacted Jin to do a SS Phase unit build for me. The unit was to be for a build very much like jAkUps, meaning a TJ07 case sitting on top of a SS unit, see jAkUps computer. I had talked with Jin on the phone and we went over what the build would be used for CPU wise, build quality etc.

As I wanted a controller and a few other items, such as a spare Evap head and extra controller. I was told at that time ETA would be about 4 weeks and the controllers were coming from EU.

I was given an estimate and deposit requirement in which I did a PayPal transfer of the amount to Jin’s PayPal account on 3/21/2008.
4/1/2008 Jin starts a build log per my request
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2887019&postcount=472
4/14/2008 rolls around and I ask for an update. I am told he is waiting for cases from china.
4/22/2008 cases stuck in customs. Build is completed and just waiting on case.
4/23/2008 build is now at 4 weeks. Still no cases

I sent off a PM to Jin asking about a chiller unit like the one in the link and if something like the link here could be installed into a chopped down TJ07 so it matched my current case.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2941801#post2941801
We decided at that time to install both SS and Chiller into a second TJ07 case. I ordered a TJ07 from NewEgg and made the huge mistake on using Jin’s address as the ship to address, different than my CC address. After fraud alarms went off and getting NewEgg and my Bank on the phone on a 3-way we got this taken care of and the TJ07 was ship to Jin.

4/29/2008 Jin received the TJ07. Was now told he had some other builds to work on so delayed even more :(

5/06/2008 Was told that he would see what he could post up on the weekend as far as my build went. SS is done and he is starting on chiller. Nothing was posted.

5/30/2008 Was told he was finishing up a build for another person, set me a pic of it, man it looked great ! and that I was #1 priority starting today.

Edit: - Ops forgot this one
6/8/2008 Recieved an email describing a few details of the build and that it was going a bit slow.

6/24/2008 He answered my PM’s finally and I was told he was sorry for it taking so long and would have some pictures tonight when he got home.

6/25/2008 I waiting over night and no pictures were posted or emailed.

7/6/2008 I started a thread in Builders/Customer Releations. Ok that didn’t go so well ;)
7/7/2008 I guess Jin did find out about the thread as I received an email from him with pic’s. Then contact became hard again, no answer to PM’s or emails.

So on 7/7/2008 this is the pic I was sent
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6562/img34402ju7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That was the last contact...

I want you all to know that I have been very easy going, understanding and no pressure this whole time. I think Jin is an outstanding builder and makes the best units out there. I know we all have real life issues and problems to deal with and I am very understanding about that. But no communication to someone who has paid you a fair amount of money for a job and make me have to hunt him down each time for updates is just not right imo.

I have been waiting 18 weeks now this friday and lately contact is becoming difficult and I do not feel that I should be the one trying to hunt him down. Man to Man he should keep me informed via PM’s/emails or phone calls. I am not asking to be called everyday, just pop me off an email or PM. You know act like I am a paying customer, which I am.

If there is bad news, tell me, but tell me something.

I have had the money ready to send off to Jin for some time now to payoff whatever costs are needed for the final build and I would love more than anything to hit that PayPal money transfer button again.

But as time has gone on I just want to get it over with, or move on. The last pic it looks very close to being done so lets get this wrapped up and out the door so we both can move on.

Edit: added 6/8 contact

[Buckeye]

7/18/2008 ~11:30am Called Jin on Cell Phone, left message, sent email and PM from here.

Basically said lets wrap this up this weekend. It looks close to being done, you have said that both units are working and load tested and just doing wiring and finishing up the face plate.

Come Monday whatever state it is in lets pack it up and ship it to me and I will have it completed myself, send whatever final costs are and I will PayPal it to you. If still waiting on face plate completion you can send that later.

My contact information was given again. I also told him I was going to be away at a conference in Sacramento Friday-Sunday, but I will answer cell phone and I have email access on iPhone, call me. I can see and answer PM’s on XS with iPhone also.

So it’s the spare evap and controller, plus the TJ07 beast ready to ship Monday the 21st.

Bam, we are done, and both go our merry way.

[Buckeye]

7/21/2008 Well Monday has rolled around and I have not recieved any contact with Jin, never returned my Cell Phone message, PM's or email.

So it looks like nothing will be shipped out today per my request.

[Buckeye]

Well no answer on anything, home/cell PM or email.

I want to thank all that have PM'd me for there support but enough is enough.


So let’s do this… Contact me by Thursday so we can get this shipped to me or refund. Thursday 7/24 is final date to hear from you.

Come Friday morning at 8:00am if I haven’t heard from you I will be left with no choice but to file a small claims court case.
I have paper work now and ready to go be filed.

San Joaquin Superior Court, Stockton Branch
Small Claims Unit
222 East Weber Avenue, Stockton CA 95202
Phone Number: (209) 468-2949
Email: stocktonsc@courts.san-joaquin.ca.us

Jin has my contact info many times over.

[Buckeye]

It's ok and thanks for your concern :)

I know what you are saying and believe me I would like more than anything to resolve this any other way I can. As I have said I have been more than fair for going on 20 weeks now and I am at basically at my wits end.

If this flushes him out to show that I am serious than I have achieved my point. Because after being told many, many different things about completion dates, status etc. over all this time that he needs to know that you cannot treat people who have paid you a fair amount of money for a job and just be left out to dry without any word at all for long periods of time is just not right.

And of course I truly hope that nothing has happened to Jin, medical or otherwise that would cause the delay in communication. I do believe that Jin is a honorable guy and will make do whatever he has to do to finish this project up. We have talked a lot on the phone about many different things, I like Jin.

It’s so simple to handle, it’s called customer relations. Email or pick up the phone and call the client.

I deal with up to 240 people a month, plus training 30+ others. I would hate to think what would happen to my business if I decided to not contact them for weeks on end, I would not be in business.

[Movieman]

post removed because the person wasn't involved..;)

[Buckeye]

Contact has been made.

Daily updates promissed with a completion date of ~monday.

[Buckeye]

Ok a bit of an update.

7/23/08 Explained the delays, was told daily updates and unit WILL ship on Monday the 28th.
7/25/08 I was told he needed to reinforce the mid section with extra brace and working on wiring.

Past Monday Deadline now

7/29/08 Problems with LCD controller, has to contact g-master

21 weeks now I think it is

[Buckeye]

8/2/08 Recieved email last night from Jin asking if it's ok to give me a call tomorrow. That would be Saturday.

I replied sure thing, I would love to hear from you. Told him I would be on the phone from 8:30am till 12:30ish but call anytime after that.

I called and left a few messages keeping him updated on what I was doing today, had to go off to church and dinner, 4:30 - 6:30. Got home no message left, called again and said I was here the rest of the night.

10:00pm and no call from Jin so far

8/4/08 The whole weekend has gone by and no call or am I able to get ahold of him

[Buckeye]

8/6/08 Still no word from Jin, left messages on both home phone and cell, plus email.

This is getting rather old and Friday will be good grief something like 23-24 weeks. It's been so long I have lost track to be honest. Going on something like 6 months now, getting close to it :(

He says in an email that he Understands that I am Serious about getting this done, then disappears for weeks again.

At this point I would just be happy to get the unit, finished or unfinished so we both can just move on, because playing tag for months and getting nowhere is just simply getting very old.

Man I tell ya, I simply do not know what to say about this anymore… :shrug:

[Buckeye]

8/11/08 With the help of interested parties Jin finally made contact with me on via email. He stated that he was in Korea with an family emergency and that he has not forgotten about and will be back by the middle of the week.

8/14/08 Still no contact. Tried several more times to call but no answer each time.

Email was sent to Jin by me that close of business Friday 8/15 if I have not heard anything back I will begin to take action without further notice from me.

I also stated that if he does respond I will require pictures of the project for each update to show in good faith that he is working on it and it is progressing.

From the beginning this has been a very exciting project for me and I felt that Jin was a top notch builder/modder, perhaps one of the best. After talking with him the first few times I felt comfortable that his problems in the past were to stay in the past.

I felt that we had a very good customer relationship at first but for some unknown reason things started falling apart. Stories from parts are coming from China, now stuck in customs, being gone at families house for days, living at a job site while working, something is wrong with controller, more bracer support needed in case, some laser cutter he has is broken, etc., etc. To now asking if he could call me then not doing so and leaving the country. It goes on and on.

Now it’s been pretty much 6 months and contact is so hard it’s unbelievable, I have no idea if anything is being done with the project.
Now I am at the point where I really don’t care much about the build, he can send it unfinished as far as I am concerned.
But more so it’s the principal of the whole thing and the way I have been treated thought the last few months of this. Taking people’s money and not completing the project and leaving them high and dry without any updates is just beyond me, and just plain wrong imo.

I truly hope that he will get in contact with me and we can resolve this in a friendly manner that helps both of us. I do not wish a confrontation on the phone and I will be friendly and helpful, if he ever calls. All he has to do is pick up the phone and call, pretty simple to do.

But I simply cannot continue this the way it is going and I am fully prepared to take action. The interested parties know what that is, and they can chime in if they wish. They all know my contact info and can feel free to contact me anytime, I am actually a nice guy :)

That’s pretty much it and I will no longer update this thread, unless contact is made.

Thanks all for your support in this, and those who have helped have been very cool and I give my thanks.

[Buckeye]

Thanks for bring this puppy back from the dead zone :)

I will update this, but so far there still has been no contact.

I did send him an email and left messages about a possible way to resolve this.

I believe he might be having trouble with the chiller, so I suggested that he pull out the chiller and work on that later.
If the controllers are giving him problems still than take them out.
That leaves the SS Phase unit that he had said was tuned and working.

So I suggested the he do that, the TJ07 + SS Phase unit and ship that to me, work on the other stuff later.

But no response.

So again from what I posted in the other thread.

This is a message to the Mods and Fugger that I request all forms of advertisement for any service of Jin Parks be removed from this site. I also request that he be removed as a Mod here because of his latest actions, and perhaps banned.

His actions over the last few months are very serious in nature and reflects very poorly on this site. Others have been banned for far less serious things. When I add what he owes me with the others that I know of, we may be looking at close to $5,000 or more, depending on how many more people are in the same boat that number could grow. Considering how busy he says he was all the time I find hard to believe that the 4 of us kept him that busy, there must be more.

It is very clear that Jin is AWOL and has been for sometime now.

[Buckeye]

Ok as far as Jin is concerned, I do not wish to go into all the details atm tho.

I see the other threads going on here and I do wish to keep my problem seperate from them.

I did finally recieve contact with Jin on Friday via email. I was going to hold off on saying anything until I see if he responds to my request. But I do have a good idea what is going on.

I have not started an investigation with my CC company as in the back of my mind I have thought that he would come through with this and finish the unit at some point. I would rather have my build, period.

All I am asking him to do is put my machine in a box and send it to me, no matter what state the unit is in. I trust it would be able to withstand shipping as it is basiclly 2 untis in one case so it would be rather heavy.

If I could trust that I could actually meet him I would drive there myself and pick it up, that would be a major hardship for me tho, time, travel, gas costs, loss of work time etc. It's basiclly a 14 hour round trip for me.

What I am asking him to do is not that hard and would take very little time. If he needed cash to pay for the shipping I am more than willing to send that to him provided I can see a picture if the unit, it being box'd and a shipping number.

I am also more than willing to send any additional costs that needed to be paid for the finished unit and then some to make it worth his while.

As far as Jin being an honorable person, that means to me that no matter what I would conatct my clients, people that have paid money to me for a product. If I screwed up that I would come out and say so, period. If life got in the way I would say so.

Keeping in contact is #1 to me, not matter what the problems are. It takes very little time to send an email or make a post here on the boards.

If he is willing to respond, I have said I would do my best to help him get things sorted out.

So I pretty much wait for him, again. If he needs help with my request then all he has to do is say so.

[Buckeye]

My issue is currently being worked out and I should have my finished unit soon.

[Buckeye]

Well the day has finally come, 7+ months ago this build was started and has gone through a rather long drawn out ordeal with many bumps in the road.

Thanks to a very good friend, who has gone way out of his way and far beyond what any normal person would even consider doing to help someone out, this project can finally see completion very soon.

From what I hear this is one special unit. It will still need a few minor things done to complete it, but in the end we decided that the time was right and I am more than ready to get this over with even with a few things left to do.

I don't think that I would be looking at the day that I actually get to pick up this unit for a very long time without the help from my friend. Through out this whole thing I never did actually take any action against Jin, there were times that I was not very happy, in fact you might say I was pretty pissed off from time to time. But I always would rather have had the unit then the money back.

From what I hear this is one special unit, Jin has built one extreme unit for me. When I heard of a few spec’s I went OMG !! :shocked:
I believe I am going to be very happy I waited this out. :clap:

As far as Jin goes, I do know what has been going on with him. If he wishes I can post that up. Even tho he would not tell me what the final cost of my build, he said on the phone that after all this he could not take any more money from me after all this, he will be rewarded, trust me.

So I have a 7+ hour round trip drive to go pick up the unit, I am meeting my friend half way. We decided that it was better to transfer the unit our self’s vs. Shipping this very heavy unit and risk damage from shipping and the costs involved.

I will post up some pic’s when I get back.

If it’s ok with the Mods we can open this thread up for others to post in for while, just be nice :)

Also the Mods here have been a really great bunch of people, very helpful, friendly and they have also gone way out of there way to dealing with me HAHA ! and this whole thing :up:

Just a word of warning “Do Not Get On The Phone With Movieman, EVER !” HAHAHA Rehab from that phone call is still ongoing, but with the help of a few Meds and weekly sessions in the special padded room I had built, I hope to recover soon. I think I will have scares for a very long time tho. :rofl:

[jimmyz]

Great to hear, I have used my Jin unit daily for two years solid now. absolutely awesome quality. I consider it by far the best purchase I have made in my PC hobby.

Glad to hear it is working out buddy, Really happy for you.

tell Jin I said hi.

[yngndrw]

I'm glad it's finally working out for you. Good luck with your new monster, hope you enjoy it. :)

[Buckeye]

Thanks everyone :up:

WoW what a trip, turned into an 8 hour drive round trip. It was really great meeting my friend for the very first time ! :clap:

So as this day came closer I know full well that a few things would not be finished. It was decided that I would take care of it simply because coordinating everything was just simply, do it now or wait for who knows how much longer. The time was right so I went and received the unit.

Jin’s laser cutter had broke months ago so I knew the front and back panels would not be ready. It’s ok as I can make my own until he gets his cutter working again.
Some insulation and wiring needs to be taken care of also. I am also not all that crazy about the Evap hold down and might try and find something else.

I know there is a bit of work that I need to do, but I am very happy that it is finally sitting here at my home ! This build is very, very sweet :clap:

So here is the parts I received. GMaster controller, Evap hold down, Temp gauge and probe and one of his new custom made Evaps. The Evap is OMG sweet !

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/7894/pic2jw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now we have the unit itself. Front panel needs to be added.
The Evap will come through the back of my other TJ07 at the top where the 2 fans are. This thing weighs 80+ lbs and is not easy for one person to lift.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9353/pic3dq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the back side, which needs a panel also.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1293/pic4vq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And the insides.
The top is a Chiller, it was load tested to hold a 500w load at -10c. Very nice !
The bottom is the SS Phase for the CPU. Spec’d for the new Quads and I was told at that time for 240w (I stand corrected, it's 300w).
I will fire it up soon to see what unloaded temps are.
It looks like the support plate for the mid sections is bowed a bit, it's not that bad in person. But I will add something in there just for extra support.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8383/puc5fn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Enjoy :clap:

[Movieman]

Also the Mods here have been a really great bunch of people, very helpful, friendly and they have also gone way out of there way to dealing with me HAHA ! and this whole thing :up:

Just a word of warning “Do Not Get On The Phone With Movieman, EVER !” HAHAHA Rehab from that phone call is still ongoing, but with the help of a few Meds and weekly sessions in the special padded room I had built, I hope to recover soon. I think I will have scares for a very long time tho. :rofl:

:rolleyes: O really? HMM, excuse me while I go to the BAN section of the Mod CP!:rofl:

Glad to see you got your unit!:clap:

[Buckeye]

:rolleyes: O really? HMM, excuse me while I go to the BAN section of the Mod CP!:rofl:

Glad to see you got your unit!:clap:

Thanks Dave for putting up with me :rofl:

[Movieman]

Thanks Dave for putting up with me :rofl:

We got off on the wrong foot but it ended well and glad to get to know you a little.:up:

[aspire.comptech]

Looks like your going to enjoy it a lot!

Glad to see this finally all worked out.

[Buckeye]

Fired up the SS Phase, it pulled down very fast !

Here is the temp it pulled down to and stayed stable with no flood back. It ran very smooth for over 15 minutes.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7154/pic8je2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


And then the frosty pic :)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1002/pic7pc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BlueAqua]

Looks nice Bill. Glad to see you finally received it. So, what all do you plan on doing to it to finish it off?

[Buckeye]

It needs the controller wired up, temp display wired for the Chiller, power buttons, fans wired, insulate the last few lines in the Chiller area.
Some additional bracing for the Mid Section and some kind of front and rear panels.

It runs just fine now, but on manual.

So basically a few things to finish it up and make it nice.

[runmc]

Well good for you Bill. :D We need to get your friend hired on here at XS. :up:

[Buckeye]

Well good for you Bill. :D We need to get your friend hired on here at XS. :up:

Thanks Ron :)

Business is Business Ron, if my friend goes anywhere, I get 10% cut :rofl:

[Moc]

My costumers would kill me if I would send them such a uncompleted unit. Insulating would take... 30minutes. Electric is complicated and take a lot of time and I understand the issue with lasercuter.

[Buckeye]

My costumers would kill me if I would send them such a uncompleted unit. Insulating would take... 30minutes. Electric is complicated and take a lot of time and I understand the issue with lasercuter.

Understood Moc.

If you read the whole thread you would see what I was up against. It was recieve the unit that day or wait who knows how long. It was 7+ months as it was so I was interested in just getting the unit.

[Moc]

Understood Moc.

If you read the whole thread you would see what I was up against. It was recieve the unit that day or wait who knows how long. It was 7+ months as it was so I was interested in just getting the unit.

Yep, of course there is no critic to/for (?) you! But for me as a builder, I don't understand how somebody didn't not even finish the insulation when I know that my costumer is coming.

[firerx]

Very nice. I'm glad to see you got your system, finally. Love mine, and only hope mine runs as long as Jimmyz's does! Also, being in an area that get frequent power outages, I put min e on a 1500w APC. This is not only for power backup, it also filters out the pulse in the eletrical grid to my system. I think it's a cheap investsment. ;)

[Nitro99a]

Hey Bill I was wondering what method of contacting you have done. Because I have gotten no where with Jin. I would love to have the phase change setup more than the money back. But no response from Jin by email or cell.

[Buckeye]

Hey Bill I was wondering what method of contacting you have done. Because I have gotten no where with Jin. I would love to have the phase change setup more than the money back. But no response from Jin by email or cell.

Hey Nitro, I sent a PM to you.

[ACE76]

Good thing that at least Buckeye has a working unit...I still don't and Jin just flat out refuses to contact me or answer my e-mails....I guess I'll just have to live with the fact that I put my trust and money into the wrong person's hand. Live and learn. I am truly shocked though that Jin turned out to be the kind of person who screwes over people here after so many successful units built and so many happy customers in the past.

[teyber]

at buckeye and runmc-

DID THE T MAN DO IT OR DID THE T MAN DO IT

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/tabid/1780/default.aspx?Product_Code=B13-672

says the inlet is on the bottom. im 99% sure this is your cpev so looks like jin piped in correctly :)

[runmc]

at buckeye and runmc-

DID THE T MAN DO IT OR DID THE T MAN DO IT

http://www.johnstonesupply.com/corp/tabid/1780/default.aspx?Product_Code=B13-672

says the inlet is on the bottom. im 99% sure this is your cpev so looks like jin piped in correctly :)

Nice find Reed :up:

[Buckeye]

Very Nice fnd, Thanks Mr T !! :up:

[my-demise]

@ Nitro99a & ACE76

How's it all going with you guys? I truly hope that you've been able to sort everything out with Jin. It's a worrying thought that there are people who would act in such a way towards people who've invested alot of time and money in them with the promise of a completed product in the end.

Although, I must admit my sympathies do go out to both parties involved. As frustrating as it must be for the clients in this case the person responsible for building the unit(s) must be under an enormous amount of pressure knowing that they have people counting on them for a finished product.

I myself know that unexpected things can crop up at the worst times. And when you have several projects on the go at once, things can stack up and veer out of control as deadlines come and go. But in all honesty even with these little inconveniences in mind there is really no reason to completely ignore people who are counting in you, as it does reflect very badly on the person responsible. Which is very unfortunate as from what I have seen Jin is a very talented and capable person, who's name unfortunately has been tarnished as a result of all this.

Let this be a lesson to the rest of you, customer relations should be at maximum priority in these situations.

[StickyRICE]

I don't know much about these things, but I do give you props for not going postal on the guy for taking 7+ month and still gave you an unfinished product, you my friend have a lot of patience.

[ACE76]

Sorry for the late response...I have never heard from Jin and never expect to...he turned out to be no more than a thief as far as I'm concerned. I don't mind though as it was just money and time lost...I guess things could be a lot worse in life...I am just glad I had enough sense to post my experience so others that may have been thinking of giving their money to him didn't do so...I will look for another builder in the near future so if you guys are out there feel free to PM me about doing a build...take care.

[malkiewicz]

ACE... Sorry to hear that you never received your unit or a refund... I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones… I was able to receive a full refund from my bank manly because I decided to pay Jin VIA PayPal /Credit Card... PayPal wouldn’t refund the money but after my bank made a few calls I had my cash back in about 4 days… Unfortunately for others there‘s a time limit for most clams… Best of luck to anyone else who purchased a Chiller from JIN……………