DRM Killing the Pc games industry?

[Papu]

weve seen this kinda Bs done before with Bioshock and now suprise suprise EA is following Suite , this is completely lame , not that i play any of these games , but now i will be avoiding them like the plague probably advising my brother to steer clear aswell.
I have a laptop and a desktop , both which i reinstall nearly every 4 or 5 months , this is complete madness...:mad::mad:
+1 for steam and its great system saving the pc games industry \0/


Mass Effect DRM (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/17/1850222&from=rss)

"There was some discussion last month about the proposed DRM for Mass Effect and Spore that required the game to phone home every ten days. They backed down from that, but have left in that a user is only allowed 3 activations per license key. A license key is burned up when the O/S is reinstalled, when certain hardware is upgraded (EA refuses to disclose specifics of what), and possibly when a new user is set up in Windows. Only in its first month, some users are already locked out of their games from trying troubleshooting techniques to get the game running."
Ea to Pc gamers! (http://www.simprograms.com/?p=692)

If you are a Pirate:

* BAD: You do have the same bugs that those with legal copies have, plus new ones depending on how the cracked copy was programmed.
* GOOD: Unlimited Activations!
* GOOD: No SecuROM to deal with
* GOOD & BAD: It’s free, but illegal

If you are a Legal Customer:

* BAD: Limited to 3 Activations
* BAD: Your computer is plaqued with SecuROM
* BAD: Game contains errors and bugs
* GOOD & BAD: You support Maxis by purchasing the game, but you are also supporting EA, and if you support them, you support SecuROM

Honestly…what looks better to you?

[stayfrosty]

I was planning on buying spore but now im not so sure... the type of copy protection a game has DOES play alarge role in wether or not I buy it. Assuming I do buy spore now I will immediatly shelf it and pirate a copy so I dont have to deal with DRM.

[conzymaher]

scum...

This sort of bs encourages Piracy :/ How retarded are they

[Martijn]

Cracked versions FTW. At least they DO work without annoying the owner.

And no, I buy my games. The discs I never use, though.

[Papu]

Cracked versions FTW. At least they DO work without annoying the owner.

And no, I buy my games. The discs I never use, though.

i find a better alternative steam \0/ gawd i love it.....
last game i "aquired" was Mass effect , it was dog rotton... never bothered me with any drm tho lol....

[fiskov]

Dunno why they don't just do it the same way as MS Flight Simulator X. You activate it once you've installed the game, otherwise you get 30 days/limited aircraft/map/ cant go online etc.
If you change your hardware you just have to phone up to reactivate it.
Still, this killing the PC gaming industry? pft. Or maybe it's the fact theres maybe one possibly two good PC games released a year.

[bowman]

I have Mass Effect and it's just fine.

You know what's killing PC gaming? 'Gaming PCs'.

Yes, those prebuilt hunk of junk Dells and HPs that cost three times what they ought to and look like space ships. They give people the impression that you need to spend more on your PC than a new city car to play the newest games, when that's just not true.

Another thing that's truly killing PC gaming is the lack of incentive for developers to bother. Developers do console games because they have Sony and MS pouring cash and support into their studios as soon as they go ahead and do a console game.

ATI and Nvidia are really good at bringing out new, powerful hardware but there's no point when every single new game out there runs perfectly fine on hardware from 2006. They need to support developers so that they'll start making PC games again rather than just console ports.

[vengance_01]

I am sorry. If people did not pirate games we would not have this issue. As much as I hate DRM in games today, its needed. These studios have family's and bills to pay as well. If everyone went to a steam like distribution, their would be no issues. This could also cut out the middle man and reduce prices. DRM is here to stay and by people saying I am going to pirate just because of X DRM system, it just an excuse, plain and simple.

[RPGWiZaRD]

If not "destroying it" at least it makes matters worse. DRM needs to die and the sooner the better.

There are 2 ways fighting piracy:

1) Piss off people with all kinds of protections that threats you as a pirate etc. More people feel like pirating.

2) Don't keep such uber control with all kinds of protections. More people might be willing to pay.

Today it's clearly #1 rule that is used. Is it the right way to handle it?

Of course, there are several other factors coming into play when talking about PC industry but I'm only talking about the "handling of piracy".

[freeloader]

Yo ho, yo, ho, it's a pirate's life for me....:up:

DRM sucks.

[JaD]

Personally I don't care, as long as I've always cracked any of my original games since when game distributors started forcing to insert the game's CD every time you wanted to play (I wanna see who's going to pursue me for just violating the terms of use of my legally owned copy).
Looking from a larger point of view at how the situation is shaping up, having to insert the CD/DVD was just a minor hassle you could live with, now having to deal with SecuROM/rootkits/periodic activations/inability to reinstall after a format is so much more and I see cracking your games not anymore as an option, but as a need: while that doesn't make a problem to enthusiasts, it does for the average Joe and if game installs are gonna screw his gaming experience up, sooner or later Joe will stop buying games.

Steam is indeed a good alternative, consider anyway that it's just another (less invasive) way of requesting an online registration of your games.

[Papu]

I have Mass Effect and it's just fine.

You know what's killing PC gaming? 'Gaming PCs'.

Yes, those prebuilt hunk of junk Dells and HPs that cost three times what they ought to and look like space ships. They give people the impression that you need to spend more on your PC than a new city car to play the newest games, when that's just not true.

Another thing that's truly killing PC gaming is the lack of incentive for developers to bother. Developers do console games because they have Sony and MS pouring cash and support into their studios as soon as they go ahead and do a console game.

ATI and Nvidia are really good at bringing out new, powerful hardware but there's no point when every single new game out there runs perfectly fine on hardware from 2006. They need to support developers so that they'll start making PC games again rather than just console ports.

meh i take issue on some of the things there

1- for the most part dell systems are very competitive unless you buy a tricked out XPS or alienware. but you can get sub 1000 euro xps with 22" monitor and Ati3870. and blu-ray drive..

2- console games ports are killing the games industry... there simplified and the lack of Proper Pc integration is horrible.. mouse and keyboard > controller

3- developers do console games because of the much much Larger base and the fact that its a locked system and quite hard to pirate , unless you hardmod/ void your warrenty.


I am sorry. If people did not pirate games we would not have this issue. As much as I hate DRM in games today, its needed. These studios have family's and bills to pay as well. If everyone went to a steam like distribution, their would be no issues. This could also cut out the middle man and reduce prices. DRM is here to stay and by people saying I am going to pirate just because of X DRM system, it just an excuse, plain and simple.
no thats wrong there has pretty much always been some from of Drm once they could implement it properly... games like Sins of a solar empire with no Drm because the developers recognize that DRM only hurts the person who buys the game , the pirates get around it easy

[vengance_01]

Now Root kits and the more evasive ones yes I agree those should burn in hell. Steam has it right. We need more studios to support steam.

[vengance_01]

meh i take issue on some of the things there

1- for the most part dell systems are very competitive unless you buy a tricked out XPS or alienware. but you can get sub 1000 euro xps with 22" monitor and Ati3870.

2- console games ports are killing the games industry... there simplified and the lack of Proper Pc integration is horrible.. mouse and keyboard > controller

3- developers do console games because of the much much Larger base and the fact that its a locked system and quite hard to pirate , unless you hardmod/ void your warrenty.


no thats wrong there has pretty much always been some from of Drm once they could implement it properly... games like Sins of a solar empire with no Drm because the developers recognize that DRM only hurts the person who buys the game , the pirates get around it easy How in the hell does it "hurt you?" I do not understand. I guess I never will.

[Papu]

How in the hell does it "hurt you?" I do not understand. I guess I never will.

... you've missed the whole point of this thread then... head on back to #1 and read

[vengance_01]

... you've missed the whole point of this thread then... head on back to #1 and read I think you just whine to much. This thread is completely pointless and just encourages people to pirate :down:

[G80]

Actually DRM does nothing for profit for the company. I cant find the link but developers stardock had an kickass article about it. Greed is killing the PC gaming industry

[m^2]

Cracked versions FTW. At least they DO work without annoying the owner.

And no, I buy my games. The discs I never use, though.

Same here. I use disks only to create images on my hard drive.


How in the hell does it "hurt you?" I do not understand. I guess I never will.
Read his first post and you will.

* BAD: Limited to 3 Activations
* BAD: Your computer is plaqued with SecuROM
These 3 Activations are ridiculous. When game is good, I return to it for years. I still play settlers 1 sometimes.

[RPGWiZaRD]

Greed is killing the PC gaming industry

No, but that's one of the multiple factors.

[Papu]

I think you just whine to much. This thread is completely pointless and just encourages people to pirate :down:

go away then and stop trolling.. this stunt by EA should be brought to the attention of people , but i guess things like installing rootkits , securerom, phoning home everytime you launch the game and limiting the user to only 3 installs with no chance of removing an install is perfectly fine.....piss off...

[003]

I am sorry. If people did not pirate games we would not have this issue. As much as I hate DRM in games today, its needed. These studios have family's and bills to pay as well. If everyone went to a steam like distribution, their would be no issues. This could also cut out the middle man and reduce prices. DRM is here to stay and by people saying I am going to pirate just because of X DRM system, it just an excuse, plain and simple.

No it isn't an excuse. I don't want crap like SecuROM and Star Force on my PC, plain and simple. I guess a solution would be to buy the game, but never open it, and just use a pirated copy.

[Donnie27]

I am sorry. If people did not pirate games we would not have this issue. As much as I hate DRM in games today, its needed. These studios have family's and bills to pay as well. If everyone went to a steam like distribution, their would be no issues. This could also cut out the middle man and reduce prices. DRM is here to stay and by people saying I am going to pirate just because of X DRM system, it just an excuse, plain and simple.

QFT! There's also something else missed here. If you're anti-DRM or EA, don't buy or steal the game.;) That's why I don't even have the cracked version of Bioshock installed. Same goes for a couple of others.

I like Steam but guys, its cracked as well. It's not killing the idustry because it is less of a problem for the honest folks and those who never used hacked games.

Way to go Martijn:up:

[Kobalt]

Console games simply make way more money than PC games nowadays, so what do you think is going to be produced more?

[Cooper]

I like the Steam system. Though what they should do with downloadable copies is to make them cheaper and only usable by one account they were bought for. Nowadays you can buy DVD copy for less money and later resell it for bit less and actual developer/distributor gets money only for single transaction.

[Piotrsama]

No it isn't an excuse. I don't want crap like SecuROM and Star Force on my PC, plain and simple. I guess a solution would be to buy the game, but never open it, and just use a pirated copy.
But pirated copies (probably) also install the crap on your pc, making it the same if you pirate or buy it.
Only difference is that when using the original, it will use/check the copy protection or w/e.

Am I correct?

[s1nykuL]

Actually DRM does nothing for profit for the company. I cant find the link but developers stardock had an kickass article about it. Greed is killing the PC gaming industry

Wow, Thank you for saying that. There is more to it. But greed is a root of evil. I'm not going to come out and openly say that I steal software. But I wouldn't give EA and the likes the time of day. I would love to be able to pay developers direct for games I play and enjoy, just like I would love to be able to pay artists direct for the music I like (I am a musician, you can steal my stuff anytime.... if it ever gets published, but then again I ain't no breadhead ;) ) I paid up front for Bioshock the last game that I bought, I really enjoyed System Shock I & II which I also bought.

Time for Coldplay on the BBC :) Argue away peeps :rofl:

[Vryada]

But pirated copies (probably) also install the crap on your pc, making it the same if you pirate or buy it.
Only difference is that when using the original, it will use/check the copy protection or w/e.

Am I correct?

IMHO, the “crap” in the cracks is utterly better than the crap in the originals.

[Papu]

IMHO, the “crap” in the cracks is utterly better than the crap in the originals.

it can also be completely taken out of the installer , its done on a few games.

[Knight]

But pirated copies (probably) also install the crap on your pc, making it the same if you pirate or buy it.
Only difference is that when using the original, it will use/check the copy protection or w/e.

Am I correct?

I think you are right. Most cracks just NOP the check function for the copy protection. :)

[Pinacolada]

Personally I don't care, as long as I've always cracked any of my original games since when game distributors started forcing to insert the game's CD every time you wanted to play (I wanna see who's going to pursue me for just violating the terms of use of my legally owned copy).



I feel you pain,I've shuffled this stupid dvds/cds thousands times,how much time did I lose just to find cd in my collection and then insert stupid CD ? It's work I was not paid for.They steal our time and it's useless because EVERY :banana::banana::banana::banana:ING SINLE GAME has no dvd/cd crack.Only legit,honest users are bugged with it pirates don't worry about inserting stupid DVD.

[Neuuubeh]

jeez EA are getting ridiculous

[conzymaher]

Or maybe it's the fact theres maybe one possibly two good PC games released a year.

hahaha Were you asleep last year?

*clears throat*

Bioshock
HL2 Episode 2
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty 4
Stalker
UT3
World in Conflict

And that's just games that I played / was interested in, there are buckets more

[Papu]

hahaha Were you asleep last year?

*clears throat*

Bioshock
HL2 Episode 2
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty 4
Stalker
UT3
World in Conflict

And that's just games that I played / was interested in, there are buckets more
you forgot

crysis
sins
5 millions sims expansions
grid
trackmania
and butt loads more....

[conzymaher]

What he said ^

[gojirasan]

And no, I buy my games. The discs I never use, though.
This seems like the most reasonable course of action for those who don't want the DRM but do want to support both the publisher and developer. It does encourage more and more draconian DRM though since from the publisher's POV the DRM is not hurting sales. With developers that I like (and Bioware is one of them) I do want to reward them, but I think EA is pure evil and don't want to give them a cent. I also refuse to encourage more DRM. So I will get my copy from TPB and neither the developer nor the publisher will get one cent from me. OTOH, if at some later date they release a DRM free version I may buy it.

What I would like to see is some kind of "donate" button on Bioware's site. Then I would pay them whatever I thought the game was worth. Depends on how much I like it. But probably $35-$65. For a favorite game I would donate $100 - $200. And maybe a little more each time I played it. But most games suck anyway if you are an adult gamer like me.

[Think]

well...pcgaming is dieing a slow death.

[nox_uk]

How in the hell does it "hurt you?" I do not understand. I guess I never will.

I managed to stab myself in the foot with a CD while walking back to bed one night, right in between the toes too.

Nox

[GripS]

It'll be cracked/bypassed soon after it's implemented just like always...... They can try and keep the games locked down all they want.... Just wasting money on the R+D instead of investing it in higher quality games that people will actually want to buy.

[tommyshango]

I was going to come in here with a quote from a torrent i saw. i thought it was for mass effect. the part i remember was from the .nfo file where they say it was a securom and then say how they removed those "nasty bits of code". if somoene can find this quote and post it here i would appreciate it. i thought it was funny.

[lowfat]

I don't see why people complain about DRM on games. I buy every single game I play and it has never bothered me once.

[kromosto]

trackmania is the best answer :)

[Indes]

I think you just whine to much. This thread is completely pointless and just encourages people to pirate :down:

I hope you're kidding. This thread is just pointing out the blatantly obvious reasons why people do pirate things, NO STRINGS ATTACHED. When i buy a game i would like to play it, not jump through hoops.

[Jimmer411]

Im part of the group that downloads games to see if I like them, then buys them. Tho I snag up just about every good game I see on sale below $15 on gogamer.com lately, not to mention the $5 sales on steam periodically.

[clayton]

As long as they don't touch STEAM, PC gaming will live through this. :)

[SADS]

3 installs is utterly pathetic! its just far too small an amount, limiting it is bad enough!

why after buying a game should you only be allowed to activate 3 times, you just bought your own copy for crying out loud.

i know this is almost obsolete now, but what about the people with low hard drive space, or like to keep their HDD tidy. People that remove games when they know they wont play them for a while and just keep the configs/game saves to save space etc.

does this mean they can only play the game 3 times?
seriously they need to rethink what they are doing and just how pedantic it really is, its just not the smart business move to take. it feels more like were fighting against the companies, if they tried to side with consumers and gave us less reason to pirate then less people would do it. simple as that.

with many markets on a decrease do to depressions over the world they are simply making the big mistake that most failing businesses are doing and pushing up consumer prices to help increase their profits. but in reality this is just pushing their sales down and it will kill off their market faster than anything.
they need to reduce the consumer prices to increase sales and produce more profits.
this benefits consumers in that we get cheaper games, making us less likely to pirate, and also give them more sales to generate profits from.

business lesson over EA.

[Zaskar]

PC gaming isn't dying, just the offline aspect is.

With online games you don't need to worry about DRM because most have some kind of account creation/login system that cant be cracked due to the validation being server end.

I'm surprised there is even Any single player PC games being made anymore that dont have an online/multiplayer option.

[mrcape]

I don't pirate, but I refuse to install games with DRM. I agree that DRM hurting the PC Gaming Industry and preventing sales.

Not only games, but other apps too. In many cases people who buy fully licensed copies of apps and games used hacked versions with the DRM stripped out. Some types of DRM will write itself to hidden sector and even a reformat won't wipe it. Adobe already has services that will call home every time you make a hw change. You like the idea of that? That is big brother in the flesh.

It's not whining. It's a legit pain in the butt. People who call anti-drm whining either don't understand the issue or don't mind running a janky bloated system.

[Jumba]

Is DRM intentionally killing PC gaming? It certainly seems to be the case here, because it's in the best interests of the publishers to sell more (expensive) and harder to pirate console games. I think they want PC gaming to die (the offline content at least). Makes sense in a twisted kind of way, and I'm not surprised to see EA at the front of the pack.

[strange|ife]

hate to say it but piracy would be the first reason. IF you like a game you download, by all means buy the game. I buy lots of games if they are worth it, i also have a ton of pirated games im not ashamed to admit. When i was younger all i did was pirate, now that I have matured and realized certain things in life.. i usually will buy them.

second would be the stellar console platforms on the market.

[XSAlliN]

I agree that "STEAM" - is the best alternative for DRM and people that don't support piracy. People that use pirated games all the time, will still go with this solution by cracking the DRM protection. You can't stop the piracy with that, since the human brain is million times more advanced than that DRM crap... And yes, people that usually pay for a good game would go for pirated version to avoid that crap that comes with DRM - In conclusion: DRM encourages piracy even for people that normally would pay for a game.

Honestly I don't understand their point of view. Usually if not always, when you pay for a product - you as a customer/client have to be satisfied. Guess those were the old day - in present time... the customer is tricked with fake marketing and forced to get a piece of crap with their wanted product. Whenever I think about this sick reality it reminds me of this guy:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2717/hittlerjx6.jpg

[nemrod]

I was going to come in here with a quote from a torrent i saw. i thought it was for mass effect. the part i remember was from the .nfo file where they say it was a securom and then say how they removed those "nasty bits of code". if somoene can find this quote and post it here i would appreciate it. i thought it was funny.

Even if we don't like drm...
http://67.90.82.13/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=53
:shrug:

[Helmore]

Even if we don't like drm...
http://67.90.82.13/forums/announcement.php?f=144&a=53
:shrug:

This topic is just on the border of what's allowed and what not, at least in my opinion. Topics like these should be allowed on this forum, it's crossing the that line when you start to talk about how to do do illegal things and promotion of doing so IMHO. Although this topic does edge a little to the latter, but it should stay a discussable (does that word even exist) topic. Just my humble opinion though.
On this topic: I do love steam, it's the best thing ever for PC gaming. I rarely buy any games on for the PC, only when I'm completely sure that I will like it enough to be worth the money. I have never downloaded an illegal copy of a game and I don't plan to do so.
I do think that DRM, at least the way it's implemented by some companies, does not decease piracy. DRM doesn't have to be bad, it just shouldn't pose too much of a hassle for the average Joe and Steam is an excellent example of how it could be done right. There are also other companies that take a completely different stance towards piracy and DRM, like the makers of Sins of the Solar Empire (Stardock) as they state here (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14383). They don't even bother with all the DRM, their strategy is just to make a great game that can run on pretty much any PC (this will give them the largest customer base) and make sure it's worth the money. Then consumers will buy it anyway and it has worked out for them so far.
And about this "PC gaming is dieing", I think this is just utter crap. The problem with some games though is that the game is made with a high end system in mind, like crysis for example, and this decreases customer base considerably. Valve for example makes every game in such a way that it can be played on any PC that could run the original HL2. They do this because then they will know that there is a market for their games and their sales figures show this. That will mean that your 5 years old PC can still play HL2 EP3 (when it arrives), you won't be able to crank up the IQ, but a game is about game play anyway so who cares. Oh and the PC game market is way larger than the console game market, you just have to make sure that that 6 year old PC can still run your game, that's all.

[MpG]

Whenever I think about this sick reality it reminds me of this guy:
...And yet another thread reaches the Godwin threshold. :rolleyes:

Personally, I'd love to throw down $50 and give Mass Effect a try. Looks like it has some potential. I don't even mind sticking a CD into my drive when I play a game. But their present approach just crosses the line, for all that it's supposedly an improvement over their original plan. So I'm doing pretty much the only thing I can - not buy the game. It's a good thing that I've already got plenty of other (purchased) games to keep me occupied.

[nemrod]

This topic is just on the border of what's allowed and what not, at least in my opinion. Topics like these should be allowed on this forum, it's crossing the that line when you start to talk about how to do do illegal things and promotion of doing so IMHO. Although this topic does edge a little to the latter, but it should stay a discussable (does that word even exist) topic. Just my humble opinion though.

I'm not a mod, so just, for me most of the topic is fine but that:

it was a securom and then say how they removed those "nasty bits of code". if somoene can find this quote and post it here

= ask for a crack
As I respect this forum, I believe we don't need to put this kind of thing that could put forum in trouble. Just my humble opinion though. :shrug:

[Donnie27]

I hope they never allow anything illegal in the forums=P