Which would be more effective using 2 original DDC2 pumps.....

[C'DaleRider]

I'm setting up a single loop with four blocks in it:

D-Tek V2 or EK Supreme (haven't completely decided upon which yet)

EK S-Max northbridge block

2 x EK 3870 full coverage video gpu blocks

2 x Laing DDC2 pumps....the original orange impeller versions...one will have an XSPC top, the other an XSPC res top, if that's the way they get run....otherwise, both will be joined with an Alphacool Dual DDC pump top attachment thingy....seen below....and what the question is about......

3/8" x 5/8" Tygon tubing throughout

1 TC 120.3 radiator

1 Swiftech MCR120 radiator



Essentially, loop looks like it'll follow this routing.....

Pump #1 > cpu block > MCR120 > Pump #2 > S-Max block > GPU block > GPU block > TC 120.3 rad > reservoir > Pump #1....etc.



Now the question is......do I use XSPC tops on the pumps and split them up as in the loop order above, or do I cojoin the pumps via the Alpahcool Laing DDC Dual attachement Hardwareluxx Edition (in which case I'd be using a Swiftech MicroRes as a reservoir instead)....... you can see it in the link below:

Alpahcool Laing DDC Dual attachement Hardwareluxx Edition (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=20552)



In any event, I'd be buying either the Alphacool Dual attachment for the pumps or an XSPC reservoir top for one of the pumps, if they're run separately.


So, any advantage to the Alphacool arrangement? I realize it'd centralize the pumps into one spot, so would cut down on space requirements, but any performance enhancement of using it over the split pump arrangement?

[Waterlogged]

C'Dale, Go with the XSPC tops. There was a great amount of disappointment with the Alphacool top when it was found to not give the proper pressure scaling you would normally get from 2 DDC-2's. It works perfectly fine with the older, black impellered DDC's, but falls a bit short with the DDC-2.

As to order, I recently did some testing on if it would help blocks further down the loop if a pump was placed closer to them and found that with 2 DDC's, it takes a whole lot more restriction than I thought to affect pressure.

[Hijack]

IMHO, 2 loops w/2 XSPC restops. That second GPU block will be bathed in very warm water by the time it gets there with your single loop design.

[Waterlogged]

IMHO, 2 loops w/2 XSPC restops. That second GPU block will be bathed in very warm water by the time it gets there with your single loop design.

Your thinking applies to a low flow loop and DDC's are anything but low flow.:ROTF:

[Hijack]

Granted it is not low flow, but since he's already putting all the hardward in there that is required for 2 loops, why not just do it? Running the GPUs on their own loop will certainly make the temp on the second GPU better than what it is going to be on the single loop design. Doesn't matter how good the flow is, you'll get relatively lower temps with 2 vs the 1.

Is it going to be earthshatteringly different? No, but it will be different. And...like I said...since you've already got the hardware..

[Waterlogged]

Granted it is not low flow, but since he's already putting all the hardward in there that is required for 2 loops, why not just do it? Running the GPUs on their own loop will certainly make the temp on the second GPU better than what it is going to be on the single loop design. Doesn't matter how good the flow is, you'll get relatively lower temps with 2 vs the 1.

Is it going to be earthshatteringly different? No, but it will be different. And...like I said...since you've already got the hardware..

The thing is, just putting water on the GPU is already more than enough cooling power, it's not like the temps need to be absolute lowest as you don't get any kind of extra OC unless you Vmod the cards, even then, you'll still hit some other kind of limit before you hit the temp limit of the GPU.

Your also forgetting he's using DDC-2's, not really known for their reliability. Having only one in a loop means serious trouble if 1 should fail,.

[C'DaleRider]

OK...let me 'splain with a bit more detail about what and why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Currently, the TC120.3 is cooling a Q6600 cpu running at 3.6GHZ @ 1.35V and the EK S-Max nb block.....the nb has 1.5V running through it.....mb is a Maxiumus Formula.

The loop has one pump, a DDC2 w/XSPC top and a MicroRes.....3/8" tubing.


I've been running an Asus HD3870 video card, single and the original version, for a couple of months with its stock air cooling and it's been fine.

Last week or so, I added an Asus TOP HD3870 video card for Crossfire......it's a factory OC'd card with its core upped from 775 to 851, by Asus.

The Crossfire works great, but the TOP card runs hella hot......while the original idles at 38C, the TOP card idles in upper 40'sC and will hit 50C sometimes at idle.....and that's why I want to WC the gpu's.......that one runs HOT under air.......


The idea for a single loop is simply there is no way to add a double rad into my case, internally, without some serious hacking, and while I did cut the top of my case to hang the TC 120.3 rad, I'm not willing to cut even more to get a double rad in there solely for the cpu.....figure the cpu wouldn't put out as much heat as two video cards, even if they're not OC'd....which I'm not going to do to them....letting them run at their stock speeds.


So, I'm just going to add a single 120 rad into the loop, put it right after the cpu in hopes that the cooling capacity of the MCR120 can come close to handling the cpu's OC'd heat output. I also am probably moving the cpu block, currently a D-Tek V1 block, over to an EK Supreme or D-Tek V2 w/the quad plate (the V1 currently in use has the washer and quad nozzle in place.)

I can fit the MCR120 into the spot my rear exhaust fan resides....and plan on using the exhaust fan to cool the rad. The exhaust fan is a Zalman F3 running at full speed and should be plenty strong enough for the addition of the radiator.

I'm guessing I'm going to lose a bit of flow going through like the EK Supreme and MCR120 rad prior to the water hitting the chipset and gpu blocks.....which is why I plan on using my other DDC2 pump, a new one I've got just sitting on my desk, unused. Also, it'd give some "backup" or redundancy to the pumps....peace of mind.


So, the pump before the cpu, after the TC120.3, would have the XSPC res top, the one after the MCR120 would have just the XSPC "normal" top......


Anyway, that's sort of the plan.....adding some capacity, both in cooling and pumping, without cutting an inch of metal.......to handle the addition of two HD3870 gpu's.

[Waterlogged]

I'd still go with the XSPC setup you listed. :up:

[NaeKuh]

Stick with your combo you listed up top. :up:

Better setup is this, and martin and i both agree:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0663.jpg


OH one more note, that alphacool as waterlogged says WONT fit the 3.2's i had to get mine moded by Martin so it would fit.

Performance after mod is unknown because he never had time to test it.

But its giving me good temps. Heres some teasers.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0950.jpg

[C'DaleRider]

NaeKuh, while I do agree the Iwaki pump would be the best of all worlds, there are some constraints to be considered, one of which is $$$. Right now, redoing the loops with the pumps I have on hand is about all I can do.......but I am keeping an eye on an RD-20......it's definitely an option in the future!

:)

[NaeKuh]

NaeKuh, while I do agree the Iwaki pump would be the best of all worlds, there are some constraints to be considered, one of which is $$$. Right now, redoing the loops with the pumps I have on hand is about all I can do.......but I am keeping an eye on an RD-20......it's definitely an option in the future!

:)

hehe.. you asked what would be more effective remember? :P

Didnt mention anything about budget. :P

[JaD]

Sorry to dig, but i'm going through a similar situation; what i have available is:

DDC 3.2
DDC 3.1
EK res-top
EK top
Ybris ACS cpu block (quite restrictive)
custom NB block (low restriction)
2x custom GPU blocks (low restriction aswell)
blackice pro III (120.3)
blackice pro II (120.2)
blackice pro I (120.1)
EK multires

Keeping in mind the cpu needs to get the most effective cooling (as my 3870s aren't limited by temperature), I wonder if it would be better to split two loops or run a single loop with two pums in series.

Option one:
reservoir -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> 120.2 -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB
+
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU

Option two:
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB -> 120.2

If something looks strange (like gpu>rad>gpu), it's just because i'm trying to keep the less curves possible. My question is basically whether i better go with two separate loops or a single loop with two pumps in series...I have already tried to figure it out myself but having to pick just similar components in the spreadsheet instead of what i'm really going to use can't of course reflect in effective flowrate, so i'm asking if someone more experienced with series of DC pumps migh give me an advice :)

[JaD]

Anyone? :(

[DarK Nerevar]

Sorry to dig, but i'm going through a similar situation; what i have available is:

DDC 3.2
DDC 3.1
EK res-top
EK top
Ybris ACS cpu block (quite restrictive)
custom NB block (low restriction)
2x custom GPU blocks (low restriction aswell)
blackice pro III (120.3)
blackice pro II (120.2)
blackice pro I (120.1)
EK multires

Keeping in mind the cpu needs to get the most effective cooling (as my 3870s aren't limited by temperature), I wonder if it would be better to split two loops or run a single loop with two pums in series.

Option one:
reservoir -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> 120.2 -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB
+
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU

Option two:
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB -> 120.2

If something looks strange (like gpu>rad>gpu), it's just because i'm trying to keep the less curves possible. My question is basically whether i better go with two separate loops or a single loop with two pumps in series...I have already tried to figure it out myself but having to pick just similar components in the spreadsheet instead of what i'm really going to use can't of course reflect in effective flowrate, so i'm asking if someone more experienced with series of DC pumps migh give me an advice :)

You should use 2 different loops with separate reservoirs, to avoid that the heated water mixes in the res causing a temp increase

[Solidsnake666]

Sorry to dig, but i'm going through a similar situation; what i have available is:

DDC 3.2
DDC 3.1
EK res-top
EK top
Ybris ACS cpu block (quite restrictive)
custom NB block (low restriction)
2x custom GPU blocks (low restriction aswell)
blackice pro III (120.3)
blackice pro II (120.2)
blackice pro I (120.1)
EK multires

Keeping in mind the cpu needs to get the most effective cooling (as my 3870s aren't limited by temperature), I wonder if it would be better to split two loops or run a single loop with two pums in series.

Option one:
reservoir -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> 120.2 -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB
+
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU

Option two:
DDC 3.2 /w EK res-top -> 120.3 -> CPU -> DDC 3.1 w/ EK top -> GPU1 -> 120.1 -> GPU2 -> NB -> 120.2

If something looks strange (like gpu>rad>gpu), it's just because i'm trying to keep the less curves possible. My question is basically whether i better go with two separate loops or a single loop with two pumps in series...I have already tried to figure it out myself but having to pick just similar components in the spreadsheet instead of what i'm really going to use can't of course reflect in effective flowrate, so i'm asking if someone more experienced with series of DC pumps migh give me an advice :)

I think i read somewhere that the pumps have to be the same to run in series. I may be wrong. But I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that putting a rad between the 2 GPU's cuts down on curves. How can that use less tubing than a line straight between the two gpu's?

[JaD]

You should use 2 different loops with separate reservoirs, to avoid that the heated water mixes in the res causing a temp increase
Explain yourself, i don't get that "mixing" thing. Water going into the reservoir would already be chilled from the radiators, which should handle the heat, and is then going to cool further in the 120.3 right after the pump.
Overall water temperature should be very similar in both configurations.


I think i read somewhere that the pumps have to be the same to run in series. I may be wrong. But I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that putting a rad between the 2 GPU's cuts down on curves. How can that use less tubing than a line straight between the two gpu's?
That single fan radiator is attached to the case panel right in front of the VGAs so the first block's outlet and the second's inlet match with the respective radiator connectors, acting like the two elbows i would have had to use to connect the vga blocks.

I can't see why pumps should be identical, stacking another 3.2 would indeed make a better solution but as far as i know you're gonna get higher pressure/flowrate anyway, no matter what pumps you use.
The point is: will the increased flow from the series overcome what i would get with two separate loops? The spreadsheet says yes for some configurations and no to others...but there's no way i can get a reliable estimate, because my parts obviously have a different pressure drop from what is available in the spreadsheet.

[DarK Nerevar]

Explain yourself, i don't get that "mixing" thing. Water going into the reservoir would already be chilled from the radiators, which should handle the heat, and is then going to cool further in the 120.3 right after the pump.
Overall water temperature should be very similar in both configurations.

Yes, but in order to yield the best temp in the two loops you have to split them


I can't see why pumps should be identical, stacking another 3.2 would indeed make a better solution but as far as i know you're gonna get higher pressure/flowrate anyway, no matter what pumps you use.
Using different pumps in the same loop could damage the the slower one, because of the higer water pressure. However I'm not really persuaded of this