Advise: Please New Build

[cowpuppy]

Ok I need a new Rig badly. I'm still running the rig in my sig - the SS cooling, It's now all on air. It's not that bad but I cant run the new games due to the lack of shader support. I've dreamed up new mother board combos both Intel and Amd. I will be using my Raid PCI card and sound card. I will eventually switch to SATA hard drives but not for a while.

Here is what I have dreamed up AMD

Mother board Gigabyte GA-MA770-S3 85.00 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16813128327
Processor Athlon 4850e X2 90.00
Mem A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 4-4-4-12 timmings 80.00 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16820211282
Vid Card Leadtek PX8800GT 512MB 175.00
Power Supply SILVERSTONE ZEUS SST-ST65ZF 650W 90.00 http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16817163108
Total 519.00

I'm trying to keep it cheap as possible and belive this would be some good performance for the $$$$$

I don't believe I will Run SLI or Cross fire If need be later on a 9800GX2 could be added.


Intel
Processor E8400
Vid Card 8800gt
4gb of Mem
650w PSU
Total 685.00-700.00

Is the cost savings worth going AMD? Will The AMD rig run The newer games smoothly?


I'm not looking to break any OC records I just want a smooth running gaming rig I usually run my resolution @ 1152x864 it fits my monitor without any stretching.

And one other question What happens if I'm using the 4gb of ram on say my 32bit winXP. I know it will only recognize 2gb, so will it only notice 1 stick? Will it see 2 sticks run dual chanel but only recognize 2gb? I wont be up grading to Vista Ultimate untill I get the sata drives.

[Grey.Fox]

in the same situation as u. i;m just waiting fo r a new board to come out that uses the nForce 780a chipset. dont really like amd's spider platform. just wait a few months and save for the sata drives. the price for the performance to me for an amd system is better than intel. especally when you have a somewhat little budget.

[DeepThought86]

How about an AGP 3850 card instead? $155 incl rebate at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

Otherwise, since it looks like you keep your computers for a long time I'd go for a 9300, it should last you well for the next 5 years.

I did a budget Sempron 3000 -> X2 4000 @ 2.6GHz upgrade recently and this should last me a good while. Since I don't game, max mem limitations are what eventually force me to upgrade. Being a multi-monitor freak I get the best bang for the buck with an AMD IGP + an additional vid card, 4 monitor support. In your case you just need one fast monitor for games so I think you'd be better off with an Intel rig for the long-term

[perkam]

We have a section for this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66

But it is up to the mods to decide if this can stay. As for your rig, get the BE 5000+ for oc potential (its around the same price) and you are all set :up:

The E8400 will provide greater oc ability, but the 5000+ has been known to reach 3ghz+ majority of the time and even 3.2ghz a lot of times, so youre in good hands as long as your board is stable.

Also, because you have the unlocked multi with the 5000+ BE (Black Edition) you dont need very fast or expensive ram to get to 3ghz, which you WILL need with an Intel dual core rig.

Perkam

[Power5]

You dont need fast ram to get anywhere with intel. You can run 4ghz on 667 ram if you want.

I would go for the price savings. My AMD system is just as good as my intel system. It is slightly slower, but not blatantly.

[cowpuppy]

Thx For the replies :-)

I thought about the 5000 BE, but I thought I would run the 4850e buy you guys here @ XS. It's a lower wattage and thought it may hold better yelds. Anybody else think this way? And it comes with a Heat Sink.

I've given the 3850 AGP card some thoughts and here is what I came up with. Sure I could then run the newer games but only up to the latest Dx9 and never any Dx10 action. Why you ask, Vista dosn't support AGP. Also every1 is having driver issues with that card, but I believe Omega drivers would be a work around for that. And sooner or later I need to upgrade to PCI express.

The nForce 780a chipset, would any1 care to be more informative about this chip set. Ok I see it supports 3 PCI express lanes and probably a bunch more than just that. Here is my thoughts. I shouldn't have to run 2 or even 3 video cards to play video games with all the options and a good screen resolution and then when you have to up grade you need to buy 2 or 3 more cards. This is BS and the vid card makers need to step up to the plate before every1 just makes the move to the game counsels. just my 2 cents.

Can any1 give some light on the issue with 2 sticks of 4gb of ram w/winXp32 bit?

[cky2k6]

well, you do know intel has budget chips too... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116063

[SnipingWaste]

The 4 gig kit will show up in XP 32bit at 3.3gig and will work without any problems.

I have a new mother board you might want to look at first. Newegg just got it about 2 days ago too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128335

This mobo has the 780G chipset with the new SB700 south bridge that supports 6 SATAs. It has 1 PCI-E X16 slot and a PCI-E X16 slot with 4 lanes to it (its the orange slot). It can be used for Xfire or used for a high end SATA/SAS raid card. It also has better onboard audio with a realtek ALC 889A.

[Rammsteiner]

Depends if you use the same PSU etc for the Intel or not.

If you need cheap arse PSU and other stuff to pay that, AMD definately!

[cowpuppy]

Thx SnipingWaste I wasn't sure what was going to happen with the memory. Thats a really nice board :-)

The Power supply(SILVERSTONE ZEUS SST-ST65ZF 650W) should run either system right? I would think it would run the intel better than the AMD as the intel uses less power.

Anyways Luke the Dark Side is calling. It's hard not to think that way. I did a new wish list @ New Egg with all the same parts other than MB&CPU and came up with 120.00 difference Mb being a GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L for 90.00 and the E8400 for 200.00 for a total of 634.00 compared to the 519.00 for the AMD system.

I'm not cutting Amd out yet but it's hard to turn my back from the dark side.

Open to suggestions how to cut the cost of the AMD system. The 8800gt and PSU must be part of the round up.

[duploxxx]

if you compare it with a P35 chipset you have to select a 690 from AMD to be equal... your intel board is old crap with only 1 pci-e 16x not even 2.0 support.

so your AMD board actually cost only 70$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128056

btw 5000BE or 4850e are same G2 revision, only binned for other needs.

[cowpuppy]

P35 is cheap, fast and accepts cheep DDr2 and runs the new Wolfdale Procs.

The board U sugest is a micro ATX? and is 80.00 and only 5.00 cheaper than the 770 chipset board I listed. and won't run a Phenon.

I really don't care if the board has more than 1 PCI express lane I'm just looking for cheap upgrade that will allow me to utilize my promise raid card and audigy sound card that way I don't have to dish out any more $$$$ for a SATA hard drive at the moment. I will later on, but not right now. I can always upgrade the motherboard later or go with a 9800gx2 or a 3870X2 there's no need to run 2 PCI express slots any more.

I've even contemplated buying a used 939 PCI Express board and switching some of my old equipment and saving more money. But I don't think that's what I really want to do ether. I would do this option before buying a 3870 agp card for my currant rig.

[funnyperson1]

Even the cheaper C2D's like the E4XXX series will outperform any X2 when both are oced to the max.

duploxxx, your argument makes no sense, the only downside to the P35 compared to the 770 is the higher power consumption. Feature wise, performance wise, its as good or better than the 770. Just because its old doesn't mean its bad. PCIE2.0 doesn't make a bit of difference without high-end SLI/CF, which neither chipset supports.

If it were me I would get a 4050e, the 770 board, and the 8800GTS, but I'm a cheap bastage.

The best performance is going to be with a C2D, and since the board also supports 45nm Quad Cores it has a nice upgrade path.

[Grey.Fox]

Thx For the replies :-)

I thought about the 5000 BE, but I thought I would run the 4850e buy you guys here @ XS. It's a lower wattage and thought it may hold better yelds. Anybody else think this way? And it comes with a Heat Sink.

I've given the 3850 AGP card some thoughts and here is what I came up with. Sure I could then run the newer games but only up to the latest Dx9 and never any Dx10 action. Why you ask, Vista dosn't support AGP. Also every1 is having driver issues with that card, but I believe Omega drivers would be a work around for that. And sooner or later I need to upgrade to PCI express.

The nForce 780a chipset, would any1 care to be more informative about this chip set. Ok I see it supports 3 PCI express lanes and probably a bunch more than just that. Here is my thoughts. I shouldn't have to run 2 or even 3 video cards to play video games with all the options and a good screen resolution and then when you have to up grade you need to buy 2 or 3 more cards. This is BS and the vid card makers need to step up to the plate before every1 just makes the move to the game counsels. just my 2 cents.

Can any1 give some light on the issue with 2 sticks of 4gb of ram w/winXp32 bit?

your right u shouldn't have to buy 2-4 vid cards to play a game. but if u wanna run a high end game ie: crysis. then 2 or more card would help it some. still make ur system beg for mercy tho. When u have more than 1 card the chipset supposedly will turn off/ disable a video card when not in use. for power conservation or something like that. but just think ahead you may want to run 2 or more cards in the future.

U can alway use the amd spider platform if u want.

[stocius]

your right u shouldn't have to buy 2-4 vid cards to play a game. but if u wanna run a high end game ie: crysis. then 2 or more card would help it some. still make ur system beg for mercy tho. When u have more than 1 card the chipset supposedly will turn off/ disable a video card when not in use. for power conservation or something like that. but just think ahead you may want to run 2 or more cards in the future.

U can alway use the amd spider platform if u want.You will. I bought a cheper NF4 based system with only 1 PCIe lane and regretted it mainly because i like to be somewhat futureproof (if such a thing exists). I have a penryn at 3.5 and an AMD phenom at stock. My phenom kicks ass in everything but the Olympic Sport of Benchmarking. That's my opinion.

[cowpuppy]

I probably will want to run two Vid cards down the road but for now this is the cheapest way I see with some upgrade-ability. I can always change the MB and add another 8800gt down the road with ether the AMD or Intel wich ever side I decide to go.

And can someone explain to me about SLI-Crossfire. What happens if a game doesn't support dual cards. Do you just turn one of the cards off in the display options?

If it were me I would get a 4050e, the 770 board, and the 8800GTS, but I'm a cheap bastage. .....And then I still need memory and a psu. The psu in my sig has long been dead and I'm using a old Antec 400w that just won't cut it in a new system of any kind........it probably is really not enough for what I got now.

[Grey.Fox]

I probably will want to run two Vid cards down the road but for now this is the cheapest way I see with some upgrade-ability. I can always change the MB and add another 8800gt down the road with ether the AMD or Intel wich ever side I decide to go.

And can someone explain to me about SLI-Crossfire. What happens if a game doesn't support dual cards. Do you just turn one of the cards off in the display options?

If it were me I would get a 4050e, the 770 board, and the 8800GTS, but I'm a cheap bastage. .....And then I still need memory and a psu. The psu in my sig has long been dead and I'm using a old Antec 400w that just won't cut it in a new system of any kind........it probably is really not enough for what I got now.

crossfire is ati's (amd) name for running two video cards. they're up to hybrid now. if you have the cash then u can go up to 4 video cards. SLI is NVIDIA's version of running more than one card. a few cards they showcase can do tri-sli (3 cards).

but one guy at a local computer shop told me to invest in a good board. one that has PCI express 2.0, can support up to 8 gb of ram, and is quad-core/phenom compatable. an engineer at work told to invest in a good video card. the tech guys told look into solid state memory(think of a memory card for like a playstation 2). solid state memory is too expensive.
Also look into selling your old system. someone will buyit.

what game do you know that can't run with two cards?
what game are you trying to play?

[funnyperson1]

I probably will want to run two Vid cards down the road but for now this is the cheapest way I see with some upgrade-ability. I can always change the MB and add another 8800gt down the road with ether the AMD or Intel wich ever side I decide to go.

And can someone explain to me about SLI-Crossfire. What happens if a game doesn't support dual cards. Do you just turn one of the cards off in the display options?

If it were me I would get a 4050e, the 770 board, and the 8800GTS, but I'm a cheap bastage. .....And then I still need memory and a psu. The psu in my sig has long been dead and I'm using a old Antec 400w that just won't cut it in a new system of any kind........it probably is really not enough for what I got now.

As far as the games are concerned, they are working with one GPU. The driver handles management of the cards. I agree that you should get a new PSU.

As for the 4GB of memory question, XP will only see ~3GB of memory. It will see both sticks, but is only able to address around 3GB or so. If you want to use all 4GB you will have to use 64-bit Vista or Linux.

[skycrane]

As far as the games are concerned, they are working with one GPU. The driver handles management of the cards. I agree that you should get a new PSU.

As for the 4GB of memory question, XP will only see ~3GB of memory. It will see both sticks, but is only able to address around 3GB or so. If you want to use all 4GB you will have to use 64-bit Vista or Linux.

or 64-bit xp will see all 4 gigs.....

[i found nemo]

i say ....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103254

8450 148.00

http://www.ewiz.com/shopcart.php?additem=MB-MA78GM2

gigabyte 780g 88.99 + 12.88( s& h )

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=BA24767&CartID=done&nextloc=

pc2 6400 98.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131075

3850 154.99 + 7.59

510.95

( total may vary due to s&h )

give the new tri-core a shot.

[cdawall]

i just built a super cheap rig but it was used parts

MSI K9A platinum
5000BE @ 3.35ghz
2x1gb patriot extreme @ 4-4-4-12 2.05v
320GB seagate HDD
2x HD3850 256mb
Tt 500w purepower

total for all that was $150 for mobo/cpu/some other ram/another HDD ot in this rig so maybe $100 for that, $25 for patriots+bunch of 80/120mm fans, $60 for HDD (@BB), 8600GTS+$100 for 3850s

so $260 build cost+my old case/psu

and it runs everything just fine i would try something like that my stuff came off TPU if you were wondering

[cowpuppy]

Geeze I thought this thread died days ago. I appreciate any thoughts and comments given.

nemo: remember me? It's been a long time since I posted, Think you were just getting into XS when I gave up on the extreme Ocing. Glad you posted :-)
I just dont think I can give a Tri core a try, it's Amd's scrap that couldn't pass inspection to be a quade core. Your link for the Gigabyte board didn't take me there but I will google that board. You forgot a PSU stiil need to add around 80.00 bones 4 that.

Thx funnyperson1: I really want to purchase the 4gig of ram and be able to use it in dual Chanel even if my copy of Windows only see's 3g for now.

I think what I will end up doing is having a dual boot OS's windows Xp and Vista 64. I really don't want to switch to Vista but it's the only way to go DX10.

And I really don't know. The dark side is really calling me. I mean for a 130.00 more beans You get 6megs of cash, a 4ghz chip and none of the headaches of OCing the AMD. I'm not total sold but it sure is looking that way.