Crawl Space Cooler Build

[bigslappy]

thought i best make a thread on this build .i have the pump sys figured out . here the build of a subfloor/crawl space cooler usein' 2 GTX 480's each on it's own loop and a squirriel cage blower ,getting the water up/down is whole other topic
A BIG thank you goes to Waterlogged for his suggestions


componets delt with today > 10"wheel X 8" wide squirrel cage blower made by Dayton $15.00 yard sale ( new one about the same size & CFM $129.00)
this puppy pushes near 1000 CFM > 1 each 8 foot X 3/4" pine board . about a 1/3 of a sheet of 1/4' plywood > wood screws > 2 each GTX480's the pix will tell most of the rest

My crawl space is big enuff to situp in & stays 50F all summer winter it's even colder but I have never froze a water pipe down there yet lived here 12 years what every water cooler wants cool moist air
the house heats up into the upper 90's F 5 months of the year or more Ya gotta love California !

[The[R]eaper]

Holy crap 1000CFM:shocked:

That things gonna swallow those GTX's whole.:D

cant wait to see what you do with this. Subscribed

[bigslappy]

the last post shows the assy of the box this is important that the box is ennuff volume to create static pressure which will push air evenly thru all part of the rads IE:no dead spots (like when you place a 120mm right on the surface of a rad )
these on this post show pix > fitting blower & rads to holes cut in plywood , tighter the better as that makes sealing them easy & then show fitting & bracing

[bigslappy]

these pix show the 1st test > to see if i was getting an even flow from both rad holes>>> that's it for today The rest of the day spent amassing hardware > gasket materials > finding a way to hold rads from blowing off ! what i got today at the hardware store is amazingly strong & simple way to hold the rads with out damaging them in anyway say tuned more pix tomorrow

[spider_d]

Xtreme

[InfamousChu]

wow thats xtreme!

[SiGfever]

If you have an amp meter you should check the amp draw vs the nameplate on the motor. Most squirrel cage blowers are designed to operate in a box with restriction. Your amp draw could go sky high without the restriction.

If the amp draw is too high put a piece of sheet metal partially across both openings to dial in the "Full Load Amps". ie. if it is rated for 3.5 FLA then set to 3 FLA. just my $.015

Oh, and rigging up a couple of filter tracks would also be a good idea.

[aspire.comptech]

That nucking futs

[Martinm210]

Sweet!

I was thinking of a crawlspace cooler too, but never though of the squirrel cage fan, that's intense!!!!

[skinnee]

you get that fan off of a Commercial VAV box or Fan Coil?

[bigslappy]

you get that fan off of a Commercial VAV box or Fan Coil?
No I think that blower is off a HVAC sys .. they are very easy to find with alot of ppl upgrading forced air furnaces to the more high effecent furnaces . check with furnace installers about older furnaces replaced & get one off them on the cheap as they have to pay to dump the older models ... the indoor pot growers use these also .. google shows alot of hits for the hydroponic shops having these if you want a new one
Grainger is priced way too high stay away from them . Remember to build the box to size that will FIT the access to the crawl space .... more pix later today !

[bigslappy]

If you have an amp meter you should check the amp draw vs the nameplate on the motor. Most squirrel cage blowers are designed to operate in a box with restriction. Your amp draw could go sky high without the restriction.

If the amp draw is too high put a piece of sheet metal partially across both openings to dial in the "Full Load Amps". ie. if it is rated for 3.5 FLA then set to 3 FLA. just my $.015

Oh, and rigging up a couple of filter tracks would also be a good idea.


the restriction will be the rads themselves , the motor is rated 1/5 hp @5 amp max Soo not much of a draw there & the pumps are a/c as well ,soo i'll run a service line with an out let to plug them all in .. i wanted all a/c power with a circit braker off the main house panel down there & not mess with power & voltage converters

[Origin_Unknown]

wow - this is definatly a cool project. cant wait to read more

[bigslappy]

OK this day went SLOW tring to figure out how to hold the rads in place , I wanted a bullet proof way & no way that any damage is done to the rads . tried fabrecating my own steel tabs that would screw into the rads stock hole , had a great way but counld not reproduce them 16 times with any consitantcy Soo it back to the hard ware store & i got some aluminium angle stock that mached up the exact depth of the rad but had to rivet them together . This is gonna work Great as it also helps seal the sides of the rads to the box all this took most of all of the day just to get one side the way i wanted it , But i set up a Jig some the others will only take a very short time
Here the pix

[bigslappy]

here's the rest of the pix these show how i got the the 2 rails together(pop rivets) & show how i tightning them down .. had to be real careful in selecting screw lenths as too long then hole on rad
the rail hold together will look cleaner on the next fabrication as i found some better plates to hold the rails together & be stronger . notice that washer will hold the rail in place with stock hole .. each rad screw hole will have on it

[Unoid]

I hope you're using an iwaki to pump through your 20feet of tubing and all those rads :)

[mike8913]

when I read the title I really thought you were going to some how fill your crawl space with water.....glad to see that isn't the case. NICE WORK.

[bigslappy]

:up: BigSlappy
you gonna need some screen bug on the intake of the blower to keep out the bugs from plugging rad fins ;) also silicone the holes on blower sides
good catch on the bug screens !!! (I think i'll use some big kitchen strainers the bowl shaped ones that are reinforced with S/S wire ) & what i use on these blowers is that metal duct tape on all the open holes & seams

[bigslappy]

can't work on this till the weekend stay tuned

[skinnee]

No I think that blower is off a HVAC sys .. they are very easy to find with alot of ppl upgrading forced air furnaces to the more high effecent furnaces . check with furnace installers about older furnaces replaced & get one off them on the cheap as they have to pay to dump the older models ... the indoor pot growers use these also .. google shows alot of hits for the hydroponic shops having these if you want a new one
Grainger is priced way too high stay away from them . Remember to build the box to size that will FIT the access to the crawl space .... more pix later today !

Yeah, VAV's and Fan Coil's are part of a commercial HVAC system. I work for Trane, our equipment guys (I'm just an IT guy) have squirrel cage or forward curve fans laying all over the place.

[smee]

Yeah, VAV's and Fan Coil's are part of a commercial HVAC system. I work for Trane, our equipment guys (I'm just an IT guy) have squirrel cage or forward curve fans laying all over the place.

Hey bigslappy, this is lookin great!! :up:
Can't wait for the finished product!

Oh, and I'm sure that when your done building this, that "skinnee" here will install it for you :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :ROTF: :ROTF:

JK!!!! :D :D

[initialised]

Ah, so thats what I can use my spare squirel cage fan for. How about fitting it in a chimney breast?

[Lu523]

Looking good bigslappy. Nice avatar btw.

[NaeKuh]

u win.

even CD's 3 PA120.3 cant top this.

I conceede, you are one extreme whore.

:worship:


Looking good bigslappy. Nice avatar btw.

LOL i know that model but forgot her name.
She's japanese, and she looks a lot prettier up close. :up:

[bigslappy]

Ah, so thats what I can use my spare squirel cage fan for. How about fitting it in a chimney breast? that'll work (by chimney breast you mean the space between the sheet rock room walls & the bricks if the chimney tower ) mine is about a foot all the way around the tower = attic to crawl space in other words i can see the dirt floor of the crawl space from the attic by looking down the space where the chimney is


I got a chimney breast behide the wall of the room that the PC will be in
thats where i'll be running the pipe work up/down & the service line for the 30 amp service down as that will come from the service box in the gagrage then up into a run in the attic to the chimney breast an quad outlet at the PC level & an quad outlet at the blower & pumps in the crawl space


planning on a huge resevior on the loops out lines of the PC on that same level as the PC = I'll get a 7 foot drop',,,,
planning on PVC pipe about 10 t0 8 inches wide & then just keep reducing down the size with reducers to 1 1/2 pipe then tee it back into two loops agin reduce agin into the rads that way i'll get water pressure to the rads in the crawlspace by gravity :D & by reducing the pipe size in incurments that increases the water pressure with no pump , then it's into a pair of pumps straight outaa the rads up & 2 more pumps at the PC into the water block loops for MAX flow

[skinnee]

Hey bigslappy, this is lookin great!! :up:
Can't wait for the finished product!

Oh, and I'm sure that when your done building this, that "skinnee" here will install it for you :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :ROTF: :ROTF:

JK!!!! :D :D

I could easily fit in a crawl space...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

...but I don't know jack about FC fans and blower motors.

[biftek.]

u win.

even CD's 3 PA120.3 cant top this.
What if...

they combined their work...

CD's 3 PA's...

plus this huge ass blower...

[kinghong1970]

that avatar makes me wanna get all slappy and.... :slap:

/wife intervention... again...

wow... that is eXtreme dude...



What if...

they combined their work...

CD's 3 PA's...

plus this huge ass blower...

ha ha ha... that would make someone take the challenge and go out and build a friggin windtunnel or something...

[Bad213Boy]

Is there any chance you'll warp the Rads fins with this blower? I mean the cavity that your blower will make might collapse your rad fins. Anyhow, this is definitely Xtreme. Good luck.

[bigslappy]

Is there any chance you'll warp the Rads fins with this blower? I mean the cavity that your blower will make might collapse your rad fins. Anyhow, this is definitely Xtreme. Good luck.

I'll find out this weekend when seal up & do another test

[leo_bsb]

Are you planning to leave it outside the house and run longer tubing? Maybe you could tune the fan speed with a reosthat and keep the noise lower enough for keeping it in your room.

[Bubbaxm2]

He wouldn't be able to take advantage of the 50 degree temps in the crawlspace then.

[bigslappy]

Are you planning to leave it outside the house and run longer tubing? Maybe you could tune the fan speed with a reosthat and keep the noise lower enough for keeping it in your room.


the rad & blower will be under the floor where the air temp is 50f my room gets into the 90's F in the summer
noise is not the issue
Lower air temp is what i need / there by water temps will be lower into the PC

[Big_Daddy]

Are you going to do something about dust? I'd think that being under the house, you'd have to clean that sucker out every week at least..

[bigslappy]

Are you going to do something about dust? I'd think that being under the house, you'd have to clean that sucker out every week at least..


the floor of the crawl space has a vapor barrior (plastic sheeting that keeps the moisture from traveling up thru the floor and humidifing the house, before i put in the vapor b the windows in the house would sweat really bad in the winter now they do not at all no matter how cold the outside air temps are
Soo there is no exposed dirt at all in the crawl space soo dust will not be a problem
spider webs that's the worry & as Capt Crunch said put some screens on the blower intakes . More pix when i get up in the morning as i'm back to work on this

[desertstalker]

planning on a huge resevior on the loops out lines of the PC on that same level as the PC = I'll get a 7 foot drop',,,,
planning on PVC pipe about 10 t0 8 inches wide & then just keep reducing down the size with reducers to 1 1/2 pipe then tee it back into two loops agin reduce agin into the rads that way i'll get water pressure to the rads in the crawlspace by gravity :D & by reducing the pipe size in incurments that increases the water pressure with no pump , then it's into a pair of pumps straight outaa the rads up & 2 more pumps at the PC into the water block loops for MAX flow

It does not matter (from a pressure perspective) how wide the pipes are. Pressure only depends on height (it is a measure of Force pre Unit AREA) and as the RAD will be relatively restrictive, compared to 1/2" pipe, you will not see a noticeable difference in flow due to larger tubing.

Just use the same size pipe for the whole thing, should be a lot easier.

[bigslappy]

It does not matter (from a pressure perspective) how wide the pipes are. Pressure only depends on height (it is a measure of Force pre Unit AREA) and as the RAD will be relatively restrictive, compared to 1/2" pipe, you will not see a noticeable difference in flow due to larger tubing.

Just use the same size pipe for the whole thing, should be a lot easier.

by reducing the diameter in increments (the largest diameter would be the longest piece ) I get a larger volume of water in the overall vertical drop , more volume, more wieght, move gravititational pull = more pressure at the smallest diameter which would be at the the rad inlet where i need it most :cool:

[bigslappy]

here's the setup of the hold downs for the rads ,where the rads get attached , blower gets attached, TESTING !!!

[bigslappy]

here's the seal I put on under the rads ,door weather stripping , the use of 2 washers as a sandwich to grasp the rails & attach to the stock screw holes on rads , I used one each washer on each side of the rail hold flange to get a better grip while not disorting the rad flange

[bigslappy]

detail of washer hold down

[bigslappy]

attaching the rads

[bigslappy]

last three pix show the other side of the rads & how the seal looks with the rads on
now on to TESTING ! these next pix show the test .. when i attached the blower i'd didn't place it where it blew straight out & the top rad had slightly more air flow ... & i was getting on both rads more air flow at the center than across the rads evenly (i was getting a huge amount of flow every where but more at the centers )
Now this tells me i need to place a baffle inside the box to spread the blast of air out of the blower to even up the coverage to the rads & make sure that the air flow is perpendicular to the rads ,then the baffle . I was getting alot of flow/leaks from all the seam edges of the box as expexted by me as i didn't use any gasket materials on those parts yet as i wanted to test before going any further,BUT the seals around the rads did not leak at all
as for noise it's NOT loud at all . Bedroom A/C's are 4 times as loud as this thing.. no roar or anything a hum from the motor & that's about it !!

[Cupcake]

Thats too crazy :D

that could probably cool 30 PCs :p

[bigslappy]

put a baffel in & now the air flow is way more even across both rads

[jspace]

Hmm... what about putting more radiators and one of those uber pumps all inside a nice box with a squirrel cage blower?

[bigslappy]

Hmm... what about putting more radiators and one of those uber pumps all inside a nice box with a squirrel cage blower?

Dat's the Idea but gonna see on the cheap if it's gonna work as i need the cold air under the house

[bigslappy]

Gonna flush the rads (the Rads are New black ice GTX480's ) with hot water from the tap / hook them up to a hose & run thru hot water the rad with checking the intake temp of the hot water & then checking the output water temp while flushing,this whole while I'll have the blower running , that way i'll get an idea of what the temp drop will be of each rad . be doing this come Saturday morning stay tuned ..

[bigslappy]

Yeah I RMA the 4 eheim 1250 pumps back to where they came from..
And scored a couple of Iwaki RD-30's from Petra's as they have them on SALE Now & i got them the next day >> THANX Petra's !

gives me more head room, 33 feet with the Iwaki's VS 6 feet for the eheim's (as all here at Xtreme have told me that the Eheim's are out of favor & add alot of heat also) & i'm gonna do all copper piping under the floor 1 inch stuff with gental 6" diameter bends with a conduat bender

[H2omg]

by reducing the diameter in increments (the largest diameter would be the longest piece ) I get a larger volume of water in the overall vertical drop , more volume, more wieght, move gravititational pull = more pressure at the smallest diameter which would be at the the rad inlet where i need it most :cool:

Now, I admit complete ignorance of fluid dynamics and other physical sciences, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But wouldn't the small volume in the tube going up have an increased rate of flow (causing more resistance and requiring more energy), thereby offsetting any gains you would see? It just seems to me that because it's a closed system, any energy gained from gravity on the way down would also be used by fighting gravity on the way back up. Again, not really sure what I'm talking about so sorry if I'm completely off base.

[mike8913]

it depends on the volume of the fall. For it to work properly there needs to be more volume of water being pushed down by gravity than the volumne of water that needs to be pushed back up.

[bigslappy]

[QUOTE=mike8913;2969357]it depends on the volume of the fall. For it to work properly there needs to be more volume of water being pushed down by gravity than the volumne of water that needs to be pushed back up.[/QUOTE

Yes !

i'm talking the two loops flow out of the PC into a 8 inch pipe just at the level of the PC then a straight drop of 7 feet (5 feet of that drop 8" pipe) reducing down in diameter(THE LAST 2 feet of the drop ) every 3 to 4 inches till the diameter is a 1 inch pipe that tee's at that point back into the two loops
then both loops run into a rad , one on each loop (Black Ice GTX-480's) & is pushed back up by a iwaki rd-30 pump on each loop back into the PC

The volume of water in a 8" pipe 5 feet long straight down will supply alot of positive pressure to the inlet of the rads & the RD-30 will create a negative pressure / suction at the outlet of the rad
the up loops will be the diameter of the outlet of the Iwaki's
the pipe between the rad & Iwaki will copper pipe to keep the Iwaki from crushing the tubing with suction
does that make sense ? Opinions are welcome ! :cool:

[bigslappy]

I found a heating / ac contractor that has a sheet metal shop that makes duct work about the same height / width as my wood box ..SOO if this works then i'll move on to that instead of the woodbox & also use a brand new blower but only after this thing is up & running correctly

QUESTION .. should i put the the Iwaki's before the rads ?

or as I was thinking after the rads for the push up to the PC

[mike8913]

pump placement shouldn't matter. Some people suggest after the rad for velocity but common sense would dictate that the same force being pressured out the pump has to also be sucked into the pump. And, since your pump has quite a large heat load i would personally suggest putting in before the rad. Now granted, even though common sense does dictate the previously stated it could still be that there is a performance drop in that alignment. However, I hardly think that any performance drop (if there is one) would be noticeable.

[Giannis86]

very interesting build you have there:cool:
i would put the iwaki before the rad to account for the larger heat dump

*edit: mike beat me to it xD

[desertstalker]

See http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/WindTunnel/Activities/fluid_pressure.html

The Pressure of a fluid is determined by density and depth, the volume has nothing to do with it.

This is because a fluid exerts pressure equally in all directions.

Or are you going to make be dig up my Fluid Mechanics notes to find the derivation for the formula :) : P = Pa + roe*g*h (notice the absence of any dimension other than height)

I believe you may be confusing force and pressure.

[bigslappy]

See http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/WindTunnel/Activities/fluid_pressure.html

The Pressure of a fluid is determined by density and depth, the volume has nothing to do with it.

This is because a fluid exerts pressure equally in all directions.

Or are you going to make be dig up my Fluid Mechanics notes to find the derivation for the formula :) : P = Pa + roe*g*h (notice the absence of any dimension other than height)

I believe you may be confusing force and pressure.

in other words you're saying i'm wasting my effort placing a large volume to use as a down ward pressure to the rads ?, if that is the case then i would want the Iwaki's above the floor so i could monitor them as well as the PSU's that supply the 24Volts to the Iwaki's ?


Then how about this Two loops in PC > Iwaki's > down to the rad's /blower > up to the resevoir's > PC

with this setup the heat dump of the Iwaki's is before the rads & after the heat dump of the PC water blocks >

>> the Iwaki's should have enuff headroom to pull this off ?

[H2omg]

See http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/WindTunnel/Activities/fluid_pressure.html

The Pressure of a fluid is determined by density and depth, the volume has nothing to do with it.

This is because a fluid exerts pressure equally in all directions.

Or are you going to make be dig up my Fluid Mechanics notes to find the derivation for the formula :) : P = Pa + roe*g*h (notice the absence of any dimension other than height)

I believe you may be confusing force and pressure.

I had a feeling was I was right, but just didn't know enough about it to defend my thinking. I've always had a good understanding of the physical world, but don't know any of the math to back it up.

[desertstalker]

In theory you should place the pumps intake near (at the same level or below) the RES, they run better with less restriction on the intake and it will be easier to prime them.
It will make very little difference where you put the components as there will likely only be a small temperature increase through the whole loop (as water has a high specific heat)

I expect the Iwaki's will have plenty of power for what you want.

You may want to run it; RES -> PUMP -> RADS -> System -> RES but it makes little difference.
Just make sure you have the pumps below the RES so you can fill the system.

[eternaljammer]

Absolute beast of a project! Thanks slappy for building this unit. I will be monitoring this thread!:)

[F1ZZY]

See http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/WindTunnel/Activities/fluid_pressure.html

The Pressure of a fluid is determined by density and depth, the volume has nothing to do with it.

This is because a fluid exerts pressure equally in all directions.

Or are you going to make be dig up my Fluid Mechanics notes to find the derivation for the formula :) : P = Pa + roe*g*h (notice the absence of any dimension other than height)

I believe you may be confusing force and pressure.

Isn't pressure just the amount of force per unit area?

I think what people are trying to explain here is the potential energy contained in the column of water due the the gravity effecting it and its weight, so the thinking is big volume is more energy down.

I don't think this will stand true as it is a closed loop. No water is able to go down until it returns to the res. (finger on straw = lift from drink) 1 cc of water pumped in to the res = 1cc allowed out of the res. The res water will be "held up" with surface tension, ie defeating gravity.

I think there will be a point where it all gets messy with large enough and long enough res's that enable the surface tension not to be strong enough.

For all intents and purposes though, res volume works as a buffer for temps and not much else. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm getting old and rusty.

[H2omg]

Isn't pressure just the amount of force per unit area?

I think what people are trying to explain here is the potential energy contained in the column of water due the the gravity effecting it and its weight, so the thinking is big volume is more energy down.

I don't think this will stand true as it is a closed loop. No water is able to go down until it returns to the res. (finger on straw = lift from drink) 1 cc of water pumped in to the res = 1cc allowed out of the res. The res water will be "held up" with surface tension, ie defeating gravity.

I think there will be a point where it all gets messy with large enough and long enough res's that enable the surface tension not to be strong enough.

For all intents and purposes though, res volume works as a buffer for temps and not much else. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I'm getting old and rusty.

My understanding is the same. The more water in the loop the longer it takes to saturate. The guys here refer to it as "heat dump" I believe.

[bigslappy]

1st off thanx to you ALL for all the feed back it has helped Very Much ! & thanx also to Quoc from Petra's Tech Shop for all the help (those guy's are great!)

i'm not trying to re-invent the wheel here & i'm no expert on fluid mechanics , i just know that I got a huge volume of cool stable air just under my feet & i get free power from a solar photo array on the roof ... soo why not use the free cool air ,free power to my advantage (solar units in place now 6 yaers & i have hit the break even point on costs for them )

I'm going with a set-up thus ... pc > Rad (GTX480 BlkIce){this will be the under floor/crawl space blower unit } > Res-(EK-RES400 Rev.2) > PUMP-( Iwaki RD-30 )> PC

2 loops of each .. loops having it's own rad /pump/res

the reseviors,pumps & PSU's for the pumps will be housed in a sound box much like CyberDriud's build with this box on the floor with the rad/blower directly below about a foot (the width of the floor/subfloor/joists--- with the pc directly above both units at desk level
up/down is about 6 feet or less each way .. blower/rad unit to PC

I'm on to testing /flushing rads right now, will use hot tap water straight outta the hot water heater > garden hose > rad will take a reading of water temps at the inlet of rad & another reading of temps at the outlet of the rads all the while with the blower unit running to see what temp drop i get
pix to follow in a few hours

[goramus]

couldnt you add a Y to the big down pvc tube to add a air vent so you can get the down force your looking for? it wouldnt be a closed loop any more, could add some sort of air filter to it so you wouldnt get gunk in your lines. either way tho you sure do have a really cool idea and build going on. cant wait to see pics of everything when your done!

[F1ZZY]

That's a novel idea, but as long as there is a return water pipe, height is everything and volume means nothing. (while static at least)

OK, I have thought of a way to simplify explaining this.

Imagine a simple U shaped pipe with one arm twice the diameter as the other. The water would still settle evenly in both, regardless of water volume.

But potentially it could be easier to lift the water up the thin tube than the thick one. This is making my head hurt!!

Too be honest, with the amount of air and water flow available, I wouldn't really worry about res design at all.

[H2omg]

Imagine a simple U shaped pipe with one arm twice the diameter as the other. The water would still settle evenly in both, regardless of water volume.

But potentially it could be easier to lift the water up the thin tube than the thick one. This is making my head hurt!!

That's an interesting explanation, really gets the mind thinking. If you were to put your mouth on either end and blow, I imagine it would be "easier" to blow the pipe empty from the larger diameter end. All this theorycraft makes me wish I had ambition and a college education lol. : (

[bigslappy]

temp test went as follows ; Blower on at all times
rad #1 house hot water inlet temp 120F outlet temp 98F air temp 72F

rad #2 inlet temp 120F outlet temp 102 air temp 75F

then was dis-assembling the test hose & this happened went to remove the temp tubing setup & was useing sissors (I know 1st dumb thing it did) to cut off the tubing on the barbs > stabbed the rad "Holey S**T " but it looked as if i missed the tubes just fin damage
SOO I ran house water thru unrestricked & counldn't tell for sure if it was leaking
SOO >>> I think >> I'll plug the outlet & then I'll know for sure . Soo I hook it all up & place a plug on the outlet hose Then I run in the house turn the water back on >> by the time i got 1/2 WAY back i could hear the fins popping ..


>>Everyone Laff now ! >>

>> GTXBlkIce 480 shot to Sh**

it is now > leaking ... but NOT at the site of the damage !


link to the post I did with the pix of damage ....>>>>> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187491

OH well $140 down the toilet & a valuable lesson learned

NOTE to myself Never agin test anything & I do mean anything on house water pressure !

[Elusid]

That sucks, so when are you ordering another one? lol

[bigslappy]

That sucks, so when are you ordering another one? lol TOMORROW !:up:

[Pedalmonkey]

the cooling on this thing should be ridiculousness. 1000CFM on a huge high flow designed rad. just might have to do that for my window :)

[Andreoid]

love this radiatorbox :)

[[ShowMe!]]

Why not use 4 x 220 CFM deltas on the rad...

That would eliminate all that construction work, and take up alot less space.

And you would have 880 CFM per rad...

Im assuming that sound is not a concern in this build....

[bigslappy]

;2982885']Why not use 4 x 220 CFM deltas on the rad...

That would eliminate all that construction work, and take up alot less space.

And you would have 880 CFM per rad...

Im assuming that sound is not a concern in this build....
amazmingly low noise comes from this blower a slight hum is all that is heard & the rads made no noise & the fact that i can run it on 110 a/c & not have a PSU just for the fans as all this under the floor to get the cool 50F air

[bigslappy]

got the replacement rad !
back to building this weekend

[bigslappy]

this was posted on another thread
Quote:____________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
Originally Posted by Soulwind
There's another thread about setting up a crawl-space cooling loop on here.

One thing that's bugged me about the idea (in both threads now), is this:

If the crawl-space ambient temp is really that much cooler than the ambient temp in the room the computer is housed in,
and the loop works to bring temps down closer to the crawl-space ambient, then wouldn't you have to worry about
condensation just like the chilled-water/phase-change cooling setups do?????? I don't think I've seen anyone mention that before.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________
Humm!
we'll see when i get to that point but I'm in California & the humidty is not a problem like in other areas but i am addressing that issue with the next stage
as the cooler is a mock up stage right now ( works great) & have now plans of going forward with a sheet metal version BUT 1st i'll do testing on my test bed
__________________

[mike8913]

you shouldnt have to worry about condensation since your change in temperature is so minimal.

[bigslappy]

;2982885']Why not use 4 x 220 CFM deltas on the rad...

That would eliminate all that construction work, and take up alot less space.

And you would have 880 CFM per rad...

Im assuming that sound is not a concern in this build....
with the blower it's gonna be easy to put a airfilter on the thing & doing that with the 4 fans EHH i'd don't know how easy that'd be

[Petra]

;2982885']Why not use 4 x 220 CFM deltas on the rad...

That would eliminate all that construction work, and take up alot less space.

And you would have 880 CFM per rad...

Im assuming that sound is not a concern in this build....

Remember, the PQ curve of those individual Deltas isn't going to be anywhere near as strong as that blower (think of it like a bunch of low pressure, high flow pond pumps in parallel pitted against a couple RD-30's in series). As a result, the Deltas wouldn't be close moving 220CFM each through those GTX480's... that blower would, well, blow their socks off.

[bigslappy]

you shouldnt have to worry about condensation since your change in temperature is so minimal.

Yeah that's what i was thinking !
as the reason for the build is to get cool air thru the rads instead of warm room temp air with the only power use would be the motor on the blower not some refer
Hey it's even Green sounding ! L O L

[bigslappy]

Got jacked around with the sheet metal guy
I hate that when people waste my time

SOO it was off to the industrial salvage yard to get some Goodies & found just what i need to replace the wood box ( some simple modding that all ) .. to make the airfilter mounts on the blower I also got some round metal duct (6 feet of it) leaves alot left over both for $10
the airfilters are gonna be the ones i use for Rig#1's "The WindTunnel " 250mm fans
10" pleted round sports car airfilters

Pix when Da sun comes up

[bigslappy]

here's what i got @ the salvage yard

[bigslappy]

here's the rework of the wood box Ver#1 makes a nice guide

cut for Da blower & blower in place & fit perfectly

[bigslappy]

blower in place & the cuts for the rads on the other end

this is gonna be a steel box with 12" X 24" X 24"

Gee I like to work with steel much better ! well after a little break then i'll post some more work !

Very happy with what i've got done

[Pedalmonkey]

are you planing on sealing around the rads too keep the pressure up?? unless of course the box would explode b/c of the air preasure, lol.

[bigslappy]

here's where I rework how the rads will sit ,figured seeing how I lenthened the box & made the airblast longer i'll get a more even flow & not have to have as of a large baffle inside
I also need the rads to sit right next to each other as that surface is now smaller than Ver#1
also included a rad protection sheild from sharp UFO's (learned the hard way )
fab'ed up some strips to make the 2 rads a Unit & it's quite ridgid now
on to Da pix

[bigslappy]

are you planing on sealing around the rads too keep the pressure up?? unless of course the box would explode b/c of the air preasure, lol.



Yeah everything will be sealed quite tight to max the air pressure to the rads

[bigslappy]

rad protection mockup looks like it's gonna work on UFO's !

[bigslappy]

here's how the rads will sit "note blower hole at bottom" last pix the rads, inside up shot of the rad from the inside to show more how they fit ..some notching to do tomorrow soo they sit lower ,then making a neopren thick seal/gasket to seall every thing up around the rads ...
all seams will be sealed with silicone & metal duct tape
the 2nd last last pix is side view of the rads & the one rad I killed with stupity

last shot was this was at the hardware store today look sharp !

[Pedalmonkey]

GET THIS THING UP AND RUNNING!! then u should start mass producing. lol.

[H2omg]

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of condensation completely. Like you mentioned earlier, all it takes for condensation to occur is a surface being cooler than the air around it. There's a build where some guy ran copper pipe through the ground under his property and basically used the cool ground beneath the surface as his heat exchanger. Naturally the ground temperature is lower than the air temp above ground, so condensation was a legitimate concern. It may or may not be for you, but for safety's sake I'd keep it on your mind.


P.S. This build is my current favorite project. Keep it up man : )

[aspire.comptech]

As long as the temp difference isn't immense and he has a decent amount of airflow through the case he should have a problem with it.

[bigslappy]

need to worry after 5 degress of change and high % humidity of the area.

note he's put heat in the crawl space and heat from MB will eat the sweat provided still using case fans
Yeah i plan at least 3 12o's mm fans

or even a pair of 250mm's fans blowing at the MoBo & drives as they run silent


WELL back to work on this ! more pix later today of what i get done

[bigslappy]

Well i got a UFO sheild up
useful
kinda over kill but i want it easy removeable & tuff

as i have to haul this thing into the crawl space without damageing the rads

here's the pix

notch work to get the rads sitting in opening well

gonna seal Rads with silicone easiet way
the way they sit on the box useing weather stripping as seals would be a PIA

[bigslappy]

this the rad hold down single bar across the center will use screws/washers from the inside to attach futher. u will see that in later pix

[bigslappy]

here's the overkill rad protection system i used
it as all so uses the hold down bar for the rads

[bigslappy]

more detail on hold down & sheild

[bigslappy]

these shots show the inside of the rad fitting & where i'll attach the rads futher to the box this will help pull the seam tight ..then it time for silicone all the contact points

as i tested the VER#1 for flow & water temp dump & figured out the baffle AND everything worked very well
i'm not gonna test this till every thing is ready for assy .
now all i got left is mount the blower & seal up on this
I now have to do the plumbing work & build the PC
I have a test bed & will test the MobO . pull the stock cooling off ,put all EK blocks on everything but a V2 on the CPU all will be tested on the Bed then installed in Case testing agin then testing once more
all loops & blocks will get a 24 hour test all by themselves with EK res's & Iwaki pumps
then it's under the house for hook up & another round of testing

[bigslappy]

the Rad's sit flush with the surface on the steel box & sealing will be easy with silicone

[bigslappy]

note he's put heat in the crawl space and heat from MB will eat the sweat provided still using case fans

the air flow after the cooler will be directed at the chimney base as it has a area that will vent the warm air produced by the cooler to the attic

[bigslappy]

back to work on this tomorrow (been working hellava O/T to get the cash up to pay down the CC)

the underfloor cooler is done just have to do the assy & seal work all but a 1/2 hour of work on the steel box cooler
, next up on the build is the External reseviors & pumps housing ,looking at constructing a (10" X 12" or what ever size i need for all the items ) black lexan box build (AL channels & angles will be the skeleton) to sit next to the PC , to mach the monolith black tower case i'm gonna use for the PC .I wanted the outside box soo i can easly sound pruff the pumps & have the pumps & psu's for them on a single switchable power

The box will house the 2 Iwaki rd30's, 2 power supplies for the pumps & the 2 EK Res400's
the EK res400's will rise from the inside back side of the box to reach the highest point on both loops to make bleeding & fillin' possiable
both res's lighted up with LED's with blue lites on a loop & red lites on the other loop
ordered the sound dampning from CyberDriud yesterday
got vibration dampners for the pumps . gonna dbb up this part as the Iwaki's will be mounted on a steel plate with dampners on the pump feet & the steel plate will mount in the box on another set of dampners
the box will also house the KazeMaster for in/out temps monitoring that will go on the front with all the switches / idiot lites
it will also have idiot lite for the blower with a single switch that turns everything on at once & then supplies A/c pwr to the PC that way the blower/pumps will be up & running when i hit the start button on the PC
comments & suggestions ARE VERY welcome

[bigslappy]

sealed up the rads with silicone came out clean looking & was the simple way to seal the air tight

not like anyone is gonna crawl under the house to look at this part of the build

Note the end piece with rads is removeable in case i need future maint . on the thing OR to swap out for them new Rad's that Fessor's has that just hit the market !

[bigslappy]

here's the airfilters for DA beast ! $8 a pop ! & best of all no duct work involoved OR needed just RTV'ed them to some thin plywood ends & will screw them down with a weather stripping seal right to the blower openin's

& they are no wider than the steel box with both in place on the blower
with the deep filters i'll get Great air flow in & keep the dust & bugs out !


now on to the Baffle Mo pix coming ,let me get back to work ......

[Naja002]

Too Sweet! Great work, I am definitely enjoying this thread......:up:

Keep up the Great work.......:clap:

[Arni]

hmmm why not one hole for one rad and after that second"room" for other rad? I think that will be more presure that 2 holes

btw nice project ;)

[bigslappy]

hmmm why not one hole for one rad and after that second"room" for other rad? I think that will be more presure that 2 holes

btw nice project ;)

on the wood mock up box .. I was getting more flow on 1 rad than i was getting on the 2nd rad ..
Reason >> the blower has a concentraded colume of air coming straigth out of it.......
... by making the box Thinner / Longer & the rads right next to each other & with a baffle to "break-up" that area of high pressure . I found i could get an even air flow thru both rads

[iboomalot]

the silicone will hold those Rads in place thus you can remove the metal straps if you want to.

[bigslappy]

the silicone will hold those Rads in place thus you can remove the metal straps if you want to.




I'm leaving the straps in as the whole end piece is now quite ridgit no flex at all to it & that's how i wanted it

[radaB]

here's the airfilters for DA beast ! $8 a pop ! & best of all no duct work involoved OR needed just RTV'ed them to some thin plywood ends & will screw them down with a weather stripping seal right to the blower openin's

Airflow any less with those filters?

[bigslappy]

Airflow any less with those filters?


have not tested yet but I use smaller ones on my WindTunnel build & those barly reduce airflow & these puppy's are way bigger

but I don't think i'll be able to tell the difference as they have a Huge surface area being pleted as they are , they are made for huge 4 bbl Holley carb's

[emuexport]

Excellent work. cant wait to see what sort of temps you end up getting thru this!

[Martinm210]

Very nice, I really enjoy this type of build log...great job!!

[MasterChiefElmo]

woot looking even better can't wait till shes done...

[[XC] gomeler]

Want to do something like this so I can watercool my cascade. When I own a house this will be an inspiration for me :up:

[ripken204]

gomeler;3015038']Want to do something like this so I can watercool my cascade. When I own a house this will be an inspiration for me :up:

see this type of thing works for you guys in warm weather.
i couldnt imagine what would happen here during a NY winter.
if i kept my comp off then the water in the res would freeze, lol.
otherwise i would have some kick ass chilled liquid cooling :)

my plans for when i get a house is to drill a small hole in the wall just the right size to fit 2 pieces of tubing through, then i will have my pump, radiators, and fans on the other side of the wall.

then i could blast the fans as loud as i want for super cooling and still have silence in the other room.

[iboomalot]

gomeler;3015038']Want to do something like this so I can watercool my cascade. When I own a house this will be an inspiration for me :up:

something a tad easier to build

Iam looking at using the following

http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/eb/8b/e18e_3.JPG

http://www.a1electric.com/spal/30102052a.jpg

http://www.radacamerica.com/


I forgot to mention that Rad has the surface area of 4--Feser quad 480

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

woot this is a super excellent project grats on all of your success so far :)

[walshlg]

Thanks for all the great posting and pics, I know it takes a lot of time. THis is great work, carry on!

One thing I may add is that waterpumps always push water up more efficiently than they can pull water up. If you have a well, you put the pump at the bottom of the well if it is >15' deep. (FWIW at about 30' you physically can not suck water because that much vaccuum will cause it to boil at room temperature).

Q?-> did going from your wood box to the metal box make it noisier?

[bigslappy]

[QUOTE

Q?-> did going from your wood box to the metal box make it noisier?[/QUOTE]

NO CHANGE at all .... all get is a slight hum from the fan motor

[kevinbo03]

Ahaha! this is awesome. Though I do wonder just how big the squirrel is that had this in it's cage, And whether or not it made it into a flying squirrel.

Just one thing- No K&N Filters? :p:

[bigslappy]

Just one thing- No K&N Filters? :p:


I looked at the H&N stuff & was going that way till i checked price
almost 10X the costs of the Fram's & way less surface area

[Big_Daddy]

see this type of thing works for you guys in warm weather.
i couldnt imagine what would happen here during a NY winter.
if i kept my comp off then the water in the res would freeze, lol.
otherwise i would have some kick ass chilled liquid cooling :)

my plans for when i get a house is to drill a small hole in the wall just the right size to fit 2 pieces of tubing through, then i will have my pump, radiators, and fans on the other side of the wall.

then i could blast the fans as loud as i want for super cooling and still have silence in the other room.


Yeah, but so much for the wife's knitting room.. :)

[ripken204]

Yeah, but so much for the wife's knitting room.. :)

phh, :banana::banana::banana::banana: her knitting room. i want speed and silence!
but of course to have silence that means its impossible to have a wife.. lol

[bigslappy]

well the cooler is done but for the TESTING ! in real time on a PC
I have to do assy under the floor as it's larger assembled than not & my access to the crawl space just fits the steel box & not the whole unit

SOO the Next thing up was yesterday I buildt was W/C'd high end test bed
I need to test the whole thing outside the case soo i can build the pump/res box
>> Plus test the Rampage Formula/QX9770 out before ripping the stock cooling off to make sure that both are not DOA on me

i had got a HSPC tec bed but really was not happy about how small it was & was pissed I had ordered a MoBo on the bottom bed
anyway the bed will hold on a GTX360/EK150 res/ddc pump with a petra top all the time soo i can test MoBo's/do builds

i will be hooking up the dual Iwaki's & the dual EK 400's on the bottom deck for the Crawler coolerr test on this bed & do most of the tubing runs
here's the PIX of the test bed (up load failed on the pix seems the server is down )
DDC pump / resevoir & rad 360 will be Hard installed today I'll post pix on that when i'm done

[bigslappy]

forgot to say I ghetto modded the HSPC bed it now has 3 floors / MoBo tray now on top and a large base soo i can add /substract pumps & the like at my whim the server is still down will post PIX when they will upload !

doing a rad tower that will hold a res/pump also this will be on the bed for good
going with a tower soo the res is the hightest point & the rad outlet is up in the vertical position to make for Quick bleeds

[smee]

Wow, sounds like you've done a ton of work!! This is looking REALLY good. can't wait to see it in action!! :up:

BTW, i can't PM you for some reason, i go to click on my pm box but it says "Data Base Server Error"...
It's been doing that all morning, so hopefully they'll be able to fix it soon... maybe we can talk in AIM instead?

[Battle_Rattle]

If you can, grab some cotton air filters and bail on the paper air filters?

I'd also request a high res you tube video or some other hosting....

Awesome work!

[smee]

Ok, got an email from you bigslappy, we'll talk through that.

[bigslappy]

here the pix

[bigslappy]

the pumps will go on sta & then test water blocks then MoBo / Cpu

[bigslappy]

went with wood on the bottom deck that way i can move & remove pumps /rads / fans / valves at my whim & just bolt then down >> if i get alot of holes left over after awhile i can plug with dowels 1x 3" risers make room for pwr cords & the like .. more work this weekend ....

[bigslappy]

MO Pix

[bigslappy]

assy

[bigslappy]

Mo'

[bigslappy]

bleed out !

[bigslappy]

Quoc from PETRA's came thru with that male to male fitting ,
that made the res /pump placement possiable
Tricky get all that lined up right

>>>>>>>>but Hell it works great !!!

Very Easy bleed !!
bleeding on an hour now none left ...... most of the bubbles worked out in ten minutes
gonna let this run all day to look fer leaks

Tomorrow MoBo goes on for testing the works for DOA's

then it's rip the stock cooler off the MoBo & EK & V2 loads on the MoBo more testing / leak checkin'


after that the Iwaki's & the Crawl spacer cooler gets connected to the test bed

at that point I'll have the Temps !!

[Jamestuk]

nice looking project.hope it turns out well!

[bigslappy]

testing on the Tec station i modded revels the MoBo is bad = the #1 PCI slot is shorted .. all day trouble shooting this .. #2 PCI slot works fine but am still gonna RMA the board back to Asus '
used #2 slot & got to load all the drivers & set up my Raid 0 with the dual WD 640's loaded the O/S The QX9770 is FAST == water cooled the thing on the test bed .
I can't wait on the RMA SOO i'm Just gonna order another R/F board & then keep the RMA when it finally gets back to me it's then another build agin But i love doing them I learn something new each time.

[ctgilles]

Great quality on thos ASUS boards :rolleyes:

Looking forward to seeing it run :up: Best thing about it is the buffer for summer you have got there. My crawlspace is always nice and cool :) Wanted to put the PC there but too many spiders :down: I hate spiders since Arachnophobia... Damn you Frank Marshall :shakes:

Work faster I can't wait :D

[bigslappy]

Work faster I can't wait :D
i'm working as fast as i can But I gotta work overtime just to get the new board but thing will roll fast now ! i got all the parts & NewEgg will get me a new MoBo by wedsday the RMA will take forever as i'm over the Newegg return 30day on the 1st board but i'm gonna get another .. after all Cash i've dumped on the build what's another $275 and still get another board to build on

[ctgilles]

i'm working as fast as i can But I gotta work overtime just to get the new board but thing will roll fast now ! i got all the parts & NewEgg will get me a new MoBo by wedsday the RMA will take forever as i'm over the Newegg return 30day on the 1st board but i'm gonna get another .. after all Cash i've dumped on the build what's another $275 and still get another board to build on

And they say on the news America is on the verge of recession... Don't notice anything :ROTF:
Great work!! Can't wait :yepp: LOL too excited in your place :rofl:

[Shadowtester]

You know not that I am saying it ethical but if the boards are exactly the same and your getting a new one what would tell them as to which board was purchased when for the rma I am sure NewEgg's return would be faster than Asus just thinking out loud :shrug: And I am sure NewEgg would get faster service out of Asus than you would :rofl:

[bigslappy]

Big Set Back on this build the Wife broke her leg in 4 places Soo i'm Nurse Radchett for awhile .. Had a R/F mobo went bad /D O A ordered a new while i waited for the RMA ....
NOW I got 2 .......
got Q9450 for it it's on the test bed now @ 3.35 GHz Soo far & i'm working up the water blocks on the Other R/F Mobo with the QX9770 had it up to 4GHz on the test bed

more pix on the way !

[Mezzro]

Simply amazing! Can't wait to see the Everest UE temp readings. LOL

[bigslappy]

puttin' this beast together FINALLY this weekend , built up a tec/test bed for it
the MoBo top floor
drives,PSU's 2nd floor
bottom floor has the over sized modded inlet EK 400 res's into my Dual Iwaki RD-30's
tubing run to the crawl space RAD BOX where the GTX480 rads will be > blown by my 1000cfm squierrly cage blower YAHOO ! now that i got both a Qx9770 cpu & a Q9650 cpu i'll b lookin' at a heavy over-clockin' on both chips



all the while buildin' my cool cube self modded case as get the beast to Fly around the room

[affiliate13]

Truly awesome project. More pls. :up:

[bigslappy]

OK OK OK ! I'm a workin' it up as we speak !!

[smee]

CMON CMON CMON!!!! We don't gots all morning slappy. :rofl:

[pcaddict]

updates?

[Mezzro]

You keep this up, Slappy, and Ctgilles' kissing twins might pay you a visit to celebrate. ;)

[drjoefo]

Any Updates?

[OC Maximus]

Gotta love innovation. We have sure come a long way in 2 years.

[Alexandr0s]

Gotta love innovation. We have sure come a long way in 2 years.

Maximus, since you're quite new here you probably didn't know this, but it's common practice not to bring back old/dead threads, especially not on threads that are 2 years old and have already been necro'd :D.