Starting Wide Angle Lens? (Another Canon vs. Nikon Debate)

[Nate P.]

Gah, I really hate to bring up another one of my camera buying threads, but here goes...

I'm going to be doing a lot of sports. Now, budget DSLR and sports may not seem right, but I have limited funds and I really want to do sports. I've decided I really want a selection of wide angle/fisheye and prime lenses.

Here is my problem. All of Nikon's prime lenses are AF and not AF-S, and will not auto-focus in the D40, the camera I was planning on buying. However, Canon's primes will auto-focus on the Digital Rebel XT, the body comparable to the D40.

So do I go with Nikon and thus the better body? Or do I go with Canon and get some of the glass I really want? I'm leaning towards Canon, because Nikon isn't really working with my here.

[Magnj]

Glass > Body every time. However I have a few Suggestions/Questions. Even though I just sad Glass > Body, for sports photography you need fps. I'm not in the know on bodies for either of those manufacturers, but my suggestion would be to get a camera with good FPS and a good sensor. Other than that, they are all pretty much going to do the same thing. Now the questions. What sport are you shooting that you are wanting a fisheye...I mean I think there are some applications for it but I'm just curios. Good fast Primes and Zooms.

[MaxxxRacer]

wide angle is the wrong lens for sports all-together. For sports, you want atleast 200mm of zoom, with more the better being the name of the game. Professional sports photographers generally cary two setups. a 300-600mm prime lens and a 70-200mm F2.8.

That said, any good telephoto prime or zoom costs alot. For nikon, the cheap route (for outdoor sports) is the D40 + 55-200mm VR lens. for indoor sports, there is no cheap option from anyone. The only way to do indoor photography without a powerful lens is to use a crazy powerful flash. And even then, your range is not very good.

From Canon, they offer a similar setup with the their 70-300mm, 55-250IS ($280) and lastly the 70-300IS for $550. Juding by your price requirements you the canon non IS lenses would fit nicely. From Nikon, the 55-200VR would be an inexpensive choice with good quality. The Nikon non VR 70-300 is VERY cheap (100 dollars) but you need alot of light to get no blur from camera shake, but is the same for stopping action.

lastly, as I said before, you will only be able to shoot outdoors because indoor shooting does not provide enough light for you to stop action (movement of the players) without flash or a pro lens.

[Soulburner]

I'm not sure what sports you're shooting that you will need a wide angle for, and a prime is hard to manage since you have to time your shots when they are in your focal range and crop to get the right framing later. Normally a fast zoom is what is needed for sports, and those are the most expensive lenses made.

As Magnj said check the burst shooting ability on both cameras in question. I don't think they are very fast but that is certainly a consideration. Finally the AF system is important as it needs to be able to lock and track quickly in changing situations.

[Nate P.]

I'll be shooting mountain biking primarily and skateboarding too. I know you need FPS when shooting sports, but hey, what can you do on a budget?

[Soulburner]

You may be able to manage a prime then. With no players running around a field/court/rink/etc you should be able to stay in range. It's gonna require a little of a workout on your part so I hope you're up to the task ;)

[Nate P.]

You may be able to manage a prime then. With no players running around a field/court/rink/etc you should be able to stay in range. It's gonna require a little of a workout on your part so I hope you're up to the task ;)
I could use a workout.:ROTF:

[MaxxxRacer]

mountain biking and skatters. hmm.. I guess a wide angle is what you are looking for, but if you want to go extreme wide it will cost you alot of money and you will need to get up into peoples faces to get good shots. the 50mm primes on the other hand provide a light telephoto which will probably be pretty good. And to be honest, the 18-55VR kit lens from nikon is actually very good optically. the canon variant is also surprisingly good from what DP review said.

But still its hard to say what you will really need. Where will you be when shooting these people??

[Nate P.]

Where? As in where will I be in relation to the subject, or where as in woods, urban, etc.?

woods for mountain biking, urban for skateboarding. I'm going to be running after the subjects, but I'll probably be in one spot and shoot the stunt as they ride by.

[3oh6]

yup, with the sports your shooting, you want wide angle and your going to want something that can shoot at a large aperture to isolate your subjects and because lighting at some points is going to be minimal for you. i would highly suggest a decent flash or two high up on your wish list as well. you would just be using them as fill flash to really make your subject pop, especially with poor lighting in the woods. even 430EXs go a long way when used the right way.

the mention of FPS is somewhat valid as you can then just 'spray and pray'...but it isn't a good practice. if your sitting next to a guy on the sidelines and you hear a machine gun constantly, don't ask him for tips. real sports shooters know when to take a photo and beginners should learn the right way. most new sports shooters unfortunately buy the camera that allows them to not learn how to time a shot. of course, there are those instances when you want consecutive frames, especially with your subject matter (you know, those frame overlapped shots that are so popular in that segment).

a great camera for sports shooting is the 20D from canon. at this point they can be had for a song and are more than capable despite not being the newest piece of hardware. they do have decent FPS for those times when you need it but they also perform very well when lighting is bad and your wide open with an f/1.8 lens at ISO1600 in a dungeon fighting for even 1/400 shutter...trust me, i know. the noise is more than acceptable at ISO1600, especially for print.

i shoot university athletics and spend a lot of time in the predicament above with terrible lighting in gyms and at that level, 1/500 is an absolute must and the 20D is awesome for the price. it is also very good in wet/cold weather but i doubt that is a big issue based on your location.

plus with canon, you have the nice wide angle selection available. as you may have guessed i shoot canon but i am not simply pimping them for that reason. nikon may have everything outlined above but i can speak from experience about the 20D and think it would be an excellent choice, especially for the price a nice body could be found for now on Fred Miranda or the like.

[Nate P.]

Cheers man! What wide angles would you suggest? Remember I'm on a budget...

[Magnj]

Check out Strobist for everything you need to know about budget lighting.

[3oh6]

Cheers man! What wide angles would you suggest? Remember I'm on a budget...
unfortunately i am not a WA kind of guy being a traditional sports shooter so i really don't know what the 'must have' wide angle on a budget lens is. like the 85mm f/1.8 for any and all indoor court sports shooting. it is legendary and can be had for a few hundred all the time. i am sure there is a wide angle that has the same title.

i would hit up some of the photography forums as i am sure there is one of them out there.

[Ced-G60]

D40 is not a good body if you ever planning on getting more lens... they have no good lens for this...

20D, you can find some real good second hand deal now (even on 30D now)

For a wide angle lens, you don't have millions of options really.

You can go with :

Sigma AF 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX HSM DG
Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4 AT-X Pro
Canon EF 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

Those 3 are very good ultra wide. Now if you looking for less wide, you will have more choice.

If you need more info you can check this site, as most of the lens review.

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos

[MaxxxRacer]

D40 is not a good body if you ever planning on getting more lens... they have no good lens for this...

How does this make any sense what so ever. All of the newer nikon lenses work perfectly with it (barring the PC lens which only works properly on the D3).

If you plan to buy older Nikon or older 3rd party lenses, then yes the D40 is useless, but if you buy new glass then it is not an issue what so ever. and considerig how much faster AF-S lenses focus relative to screw drive focus lenses I would not want to buy the older glass unless it was an incredible deal.

[Ced-G60]

How does this make any sense what so ever. All of the newer nikon lenses work perfectly with it (barring the PC lens which only works properly on the D3).

If you plan to buy older Nikon or older 3rd party lenses, then yes the D40 is useless, but if you buy new glass then it is not an issue what so ever. and considerig how much faster AF-S lenses focus relative to screw drive focus lenses I would not want to buy the older glass unless it was an incredible deal.

Mind you am not up to date with Nikon gear (am a Canon user) Seem like Nikon made a good list of AF-S lens. But still can't AF with the prime 35mm, 50mm and 85mm lens.

but imo D40 is really orientate for "point and shoot" users, kinda like a new gen bridge, but still a good value DSLR for the money !

I would rather buy a second hand D80 then a new D40.

[MaxxxRacer]

I would rather buy a second hand D80 then a new D40.

No argument there. I am thinking I will sell my D40x and get a used D80 when the D90 comes out (assuming it does).

I want to use the 50mm F1.8 and I like the feel of the D80 better.

[Nate P.]

I'm thinking Canon is the way to go for me. I can get a great deal on a 20D, and all of Canon's wide angle's and prime's will work on it. Nikon's prime's don't seem to be compatible with the D40.

[Nate P.]

I can't find any new 20D bodies, can someone link me? All I can find is used...

[Ced-G60]

i doubt you will find many new 20D body in the shop (30D maybe)

Can check on ebay i guess

[MaxxxRacer]

i doubt you will find many new 20D body in the shop (30D maybe)

Can check on ebay i guess

Agreed, considering the age of the 20D its virtually impossible to find new ones.

[Nate P.]

Thanks guys, I found a great deal on a 20D body locally, I think I may jump on it: http://monterey.craigslist.org/pho/645043867.html

together with the f/1.8 50mm prime: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-50mm-1-8-Camera-Lens/dp/B00007E7JU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208140656&sr=8-1

$500 total! That's a pretty killer setup if you ask me.

[Nate P.]

Or this baby: http://monterey.craigslist.org/pho/644465008.html

$2000 new! http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XL1S-MiniDV-Digital-Camcorder/dp/B00005NKXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1208399732&sr=8-2

[[XC] 2long4u]

I think they used that to film the Blair Witch Project.

[Nate P.]

2long4u;2925130']I think they used that to film the Blair Witch Project.
Is that good or bad? (I've never seen it.)

[metro.cl]

Not sure if it helps but i tested a 18-200MM for my D70, VRII and :banana::banana::banana::banana: and fell in love with it is so versatile i bought one :)

Maybe is not as great as you want but the lens range is awsome and from my experience VR is a must on lens

[Nate P.]

If everything goes as planned, I should have my Canon 20D by this Saturday! Ordering a 50mm prime to go along with it.

[MaxxxRacer]

very cool. post some shots when u get it.

[Soulburner]

Not sure if it helps but i tested a 18-200MM for my D70, VRII and :banana::banana::banana::banana: and fell in love with it is so versatile i bought one :)

Maybe is not as great as you want but the lens range is awsome and from my experience VR is a must on lens
Mine came today, and it is quite an impressive lens. Damn heavy too, but really makes my D80 look badass.

[Nate P.]

I just got my Canon 20D! I still need a lens to go along with it, but man, this thing is BEEFY! Holy hell, the 20D is as solid as a ROCK! I love it, even though I haven't taken any pictures with it yet! I got it locally from a very nice gentleman a few blocks from my house.

[Nate P.]

I got a 50mm f/1.8 II prime. Pics in a bit.

[Nate P.]

Here we go, to good stuff.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/natephillips/019.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/natephillips/023.jpg

I got the camera and lens today, so the first few pics are definitely gonna be less-than-stellar.

[Metric]

Nice shots there Nate. There's something about the second one, I like it.

[Nate P.]

Thanks. Both were taken at f/2.8, so the background is blurred. The bokeh looks really nice to me, even better that the lens was only $90.

[Metric]

Ah, that makes sense, the depth of field is more prominent in the second one compared to the first. I think the term is spelled 'bokeh' by the way :)

[Nate P.]

I think the term is spelled 'bokeh' by the way :)
thanks, post fixed.

[tetete]

D50 + 18-70

total of $500 USD

Canon cant beat this