Would An AC Pump Be Better

[DavidNJ]

My second system was going to use two DDC 3.2s: an XSPC res top feeding an XSPC regular top connected with a male-male fitting. And I have nearly all the pieces.

The official 24V Iwaki RD30 has a similar curve. However, it requires a 24v power source. The (W)MD-30Z is AC powered, and would only require a relay.

Cost wise they are close: 2 DDC3.2s and the two tops run about $210. The is $205. The MD-30Z is also around $210, drop-shipped from the manufacturer. There is also a similar brand, Pan World, that may be closer to $150.

All three have the same PQ curve within a reasonable testing variance. Note that the system would be running in the 1 to 2 gal/min range.

The disadvantage of the 24v unit is the need for a 24v power supply or converter. The converter would probably be either inefficient or expensive, and the power supply would need an relay to be triggered by the system anyway.

The AC-powered MD-30 (available with a Japanese motor or slightly less-efficient (hotter) US motor) would match the fluid performance and avoid any of the DC power suppliers. It would need the same relay ($30?) as the 24v power supply.

Why are so many systems configured with even more expensive multiple D5 pumps? Why wouldn't the AC Iwaki or equivalent be the best setup in our era of very restrictive CPU water blocks?

[DavidNJ]

Looking for sources for the hard to find MD-30RZ (apparently cooler running than the WMD-30RZ), I found numerous positive comments on the Poseidon Pumps.

Finding there source is proving elusive. The importer is Bayside Aquarium Supply in Anaheim, California. The reviews, on multiple sites, are from aquarium owners who claim it is silent. I first head about them reading about Pan World pumps, an Iwaki knock off and equally hard to find in high pressure models, who said the Pan World's are great and nearly as silent as the Poseidons.

There appear to be four models, and suprisingly two of them seem to be high pressure designs. It is a little lower in head than the others, 28ft vs. 36ft for the MD30Z, 33ft for the RD30, and 29ft for dual XSPC topped DDC3.2s. However, it is still about 26ft at 2 gal/min, where the dual DDC 3.2s drop to 26ft, the RD30 to 28ft, and the MD-30Z to 33ft. The Pan World 100PX-Z drops from 36ft to 27ft, and the 200watt 100PX-ZZ drops from 44ft to 37ft.

So, does it pay to AC? Is the low noise, and relatively economical $160 Poseidon PS3 the way to go?

[nanohead]

All these flow charts are entertaining, but in the end, they all move the water plenty well. I think its about the overall infrastructure PITA factor. Is 120V relay switching more painful/complicated/unpleasant than the 24V alternative.

I would be surprised it you'd see .5c difference between the two pumps in real life, and that would probably be based on some minor anomaly than anything else

[Martinm210]

Two things, heat dump and noise.

The iwakis are awesome pumps, you can't find a better built pump period. But the heat added from the strong pumps can cause more harm than good. If you have tons of restriction and can use the pumping power thats, one thing, but for most systems a single D5 or DDC is plenty of power.

We are seeing that there are some gains to be had with the really restrictive/nozzles though.

But I'd still rather run two DDCs with good tops on them in series, they are much much much smaller, much quiter, DC power simplicity and having two in series adds redundancy reliability too.

[DavidNJ]

The Poseidons, also marketed as BlueLine Velocity, although very quiet have been critized for heat dump. Some aquarium reviewers say they are better than the Iwakis, and some like the Pan Worlds also.

It is a restrictive loop, however your comment on heat dump is probably right on target. These AC pumps are 100-200 watt. Dual DDC3.2s are 36watt.

Question: can a DDC3.2 withstand another dumpping directly on the inlet? I have tentatively mounted the second on the outlet from the first with a male-male coupling.

[nikhsub1]

Question: can a DDC3.2 withstand another dumpping directly on the inlet? I have tentatively mounted the second on the outlet from the first with a male-male coupling.
This is how I have mine setup, minus the coupling... the outlet of the first goes directly into the second pump.

[Martinm210]

The Poseidons, also marketed as BlueLine Velocity, although very quiet have been critized for heat dump. Some aquarium reviewers say they are better than the Iwakis, and some like the Pan Worlds also.

It is a restrictive loop, however your comment on heat dump is probably right on target. These AC pumps are 100-200 watt. Dual DDC3.2s are 36watt.

Question: can a DDC3.2 withstand another dumpping directly on the inlet? I have tentatively mounted the second on the outlet from the first with a male-male coupling.

Yeah, I don't know much about the A/C pumps, but even the RD30 starts putting out some heat in the higher volts.

Two DDC3.2s with XSPC tops would be pretty close to the RD30 at 21V, yet they would produce less noise and less heat.

I have yet to see an Iwaki fail though, they are built like a tank.:yepp:

The other thing I noticed with the RD30, is you have to be really careful about cavitation. I just had about 1' of 7/16" suction line to my very large test reservoir and still noticed cavitation several times (They really need large inlet tubes like 1"ID and short lines to reduce restriction there). I havn't tried testing duall DDC's in series, but several people do just that.:up:

[Waterlogged]

It is a restrictive loop, however your comment on heat dump is probably right on target. These AC pumps are 100-200 watt. Dual DDC3.2s are 36watt.

Question: can a DDC3.2 withstand another dumpping directly on the inlet? I have tentatively mounted the second on the outlet from the first with a male-male coupling.

What exactly do you plan on having in the loop?

[DavidNJ]

3.6mm nozzled Fuzion, D-tek GFX, Viper John northbridge, GTX480

[Waterlogged]

How does it look like your going to loop it?

[DavidNJ]

pump->rad->CPU->Video->Northbridge->pump

Martin's sheet indicates 1.2 gal/min at 12psi.

[Vapor]

The other thing I noticed with the RD30, is you have to be really careful about cavitation. I just had about 1' of 7/16" suction line to my very large test reservoir and still noticed cavitation several times (They really need large inlet tubes like 1"ID and short lines to reduce restriction there). I havn't tried testing duall DDC's in series, but several people do just that.:up:I had cavitation on my old GPU loop, and it was just a D5 + 1/2" 3603 + MCW-60 + MCR220. I can only imagine what an RD30 would do :eek:

[Waterlogged]

pump->rad->CPU->Video->Northbridge->pump

Martin's sheet indicates 1.2 gal/min at 12psi.

Hmm, something like pump>video>NB>rad>pump>cpu would maintain max pressure at both points of major restriction and it should keep the flow the same.

[Martinm210]

I had cavitation on my old GPU loop, and it was just a D5 + 1/2" 3603 + MCW-60 + MCR220. I can only imagine what an RD30 would do :eek:

Wow, yeah I guess that could happen with really low restriction, I noticed most of the RD-30 cavitation occurring at low restriction and high flow rates. I guess that's where the pressure drop and friction in the suction line becomes it's greatest.

[DavidNJ]

Hmm, something like pump>video>NB>rad>pump>cpu would maintain max pressure at both points of major restriction and it should keep the flow the same.

From a flow standpoint, the order doesn't make any difference. Splitting the pumps would deduce the peak pressure in the system. And in this case, add maybe a degree to the water temp seen by sum of the components.

[DarkPulcy]

sure to use an ac pump???

Sanso PD055M2
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/_200804/20080405230920_pompamiaaa.JPG

[Waterlogged]

From a flow standpoint, the order doesn't make any difference. Splitting the pumps would deduce the peak pressure in the system. And in this case, add maybe a degree to the water temp seen by sum of the components.

Only at the first block.

Ex. Pump=10psi; CPU block=5.7(PD); NB=.8(PD); GPU=2.5(PD); Rad=.3(PD)

Starting at the pumps and using your setup, you have 10psi, pressure will drop to 9.7psi at the rad then to 4 at the CPU, then to 3.2 at the NB and finally .7 at the GPU.

Using my setup and starting with only one pump you'd have 10psi, pressure will then drop to7.5 at the GPU, then down to 6.7 at the NB and 6.4 at the rad, it will go back up to 10psi at the pump before going back down to 4.3 at the CPU. The higher the pressure at the blocks, the better the temps will be.

[DavidNJ]

first of all, the load has to equal the pressure drop across the components.

Lets say it is 9.3 for the CPU, 2.0 for the GPU, .3 for the NB, and .4 for for the radiator. Let the pumps be the sum: 12.0, 6.0 each.

You would have after the first pump 6, dropping to 4, then 3.7, then 3.3, the being boosted by the second pump to 9.3 and back down to 0.

In mine you would have 6, then 12, then 11.6, the 2.3, then .3 then 0.

I left off the hoses.

I don't see an advantage. However, joining the pumps this way allowed me to eliminate the hose between them. I was wondering if might interesting to mount the pump directly on the radiator, supporting it by the barbs. That way the pumps reservoir is the highest point in the system, and the hose connection to the radiator is also the the hose connection to the pump. It probably only takes out 1 foot of tubing though.

[septim]

Anyone have any comments on this pump:

Alphacool AP1510 Centrifugal Pump 12 Volts
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=125&products_id=4505

[ArtosDracon]

Anyone have any comments on this pump:

Alphacool AP1510 Centrifugal Pump 12 Volts
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=125&products_id=4505

I was actually thinking of getting one of those a little while back, if it truly has 6m of head it's going to be one mother of pump, should be capable of a pair of supremes and a pair of full cover blocks while still getting more than enough flow. With that much pressure I'd almost have to suggest compression fittings or worm gear band clamps.