My workflow...need opinions.

[Soulburner]

With my new D80 I have started new again. The process of working on my images has completely changed now that I am shooting in .NEF format. Tell me if this is how you guys handle yours.

1. I plug in the camera and let the autoplay come up. I select "Download Images using Adobe Bridge CS3".

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/WorkflowDNG1.jpg

2. Next the Adobe Bridge CS3 Photo Downloader appears. I use "Convert to DNG" and click Get Photos.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/WorkflowDNG2.jpg

3. The images are converted and loaded into Bridge.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/WorkflowDNG3.jpg

4. Camera Raw appears.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/WorkflowDNG4.jpg

This is as far as I have gotten. I will continue to read up on Camera Raw and learn more as I go.

So how do you handle your raw files?

[MaxxxRacer]

Dont use Photoshop to convert RAW. It jacks up the colors. Use capture NX. Its not very good to use, but it will give you better results as far as picture quality and accuracy of colors.

For viewing hte photos I use Breese Browser Pro. It will show you RAW photos from you D80 naitvely.

PM me if you want "hookups" on the software.

[Soulburner]

Hmm from what I read I thought the conversion was pretty close now, but used to give different results in the different programs.

I'll try NX and compare them.

[MaxxxRacer]

Hmm from what I read I thought the conversion was pretty close now, but used to give different results in the different programs.

I'll try NX and compare them.

In my own experience with the D40x the difference between CS3 and CaptureNX is pretty dramatic color wise. CaptureNX also does some post processing that isnt done to the NEF files with other programs

[Soulburner]

Today I tested a .nef file opened in Capture NX, against the same file converted to .dng to be opened in Photoshop.

I saved both of them in 100% JPEG to compare what would be called an "end result", or a picture that would be viewed by others.

They were not the same. I believe the photo from Capture NX came out looking more "natural" and something wasn't right with the Photoshop .dng converted file. It was brighter but it wasn't just "brightness", it's hard to explain. The shadows weren't as good either and the skin tone was slightly warmer.

So Maxx how do you manage your .nef's? Do you open in Capture NX and save as a TIFF? I still want to work in Photoshop.

[Soulburner]

After further studying, it seems my original description was a bit off.

Here are two sample crops, both saved with 100% quality:

Capture NX .nef -> .jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/_DSC0244.jpg

Photoshop CS3 .nef -> .dng -> .jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/_DSC0244_1.jpg

There seems to be a bit more highlight clipping in the Photoshop output. I also noticed that before I save to jpeg, the image in Capture NX looks better than any of these saved files, it has the best color by far. Something about the way that program is handling the .nef files gives better results, but it doesn't seem to stay with the file outside of the program.

I was able to cheat using Print Screen to copy my .nef image from Capture NX and pasting into Photoshop so you can see the difference.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Misc/_DSC0244_2.jpg

It isn't the "Nikon Adobe RGB" color space - I converted to my Spyder2Express profile and the picture and the histogram show the two are nearly identical. Says something about my calibration :) Some of the other color profiles were noticeably different though...anyway sticking with the default as that's ruled out (I use my Spyder2Express profile in Photoshop).

So my question becomes...what does everyone else do? I want to use Photoshop's RAW editor, pictured above, but then I have to convert to .dng...which would be fine with me if the output was the same, but it isn't. Now keep in mind this is a straight conversion with no tweaks to the image - I am unsure if with tweaking, I could make the images nearly the same. Maybe someone can chime in about this.

Either way, Photoshop's output is inferior...it seems saving from Capture NX to TIFF is the best option, but I still lose the opportunity to use Adobe's RAW editor.

[[XC] Lead Head]

The Photoshop image appears to be more washed out then the NX one. It is odd how it looks normal within the program itself, until your save it. Perhaps some processing behind the scene happens.

[Soulburner]

Check my post again, edited. I was able to take a screenshot and show what it looks like within Capture NX.

[MaxxxRacer]

To be honest, I dont shoot in NEF because with Capture NX it bogs my machine down too much. If I need to do soemthing special i might use NEF, but for now I do not.

That is interseting. I know that both caputre NX and Photoshop load the spyder2Express profile properly as I have both programs and that calibrator/calibration profile running on my machine at home.

As to why the saved image looks different than the NEF viewed in NX, I can't say. I will say this though, the image viewed in NX looks the best by far. The colors are much better and it isnt washed out like the photoshop image.

You might try contact Nikon on this one.

[Soulburner]

Hmm my machine seems to handle it fine. I'm using version 1.3 of Capture NX if that matters.

[Soulburner]

I'm thinking this is actually a color profile issue, I may have it worked out soon.

I also found that .nef's will open in CS3 natively, but the image appears the same as .dng so I can rule out the conversion as the cause.

[MaxxxRacer]

Hmm my machine seems to handle it fine. I'm using version 1.3 of Capture NX if that matters.

Im running a 2Ghz Athlon 64X2 with 1GB of ram. Its not exactly a fast machine. I'm gonna upgrade to quadcore with 2+GB of ram at the end of the year, but that is a ways off.

I would say its your color profile too, but the pictures are off on my work and home machines, so its not just a profile issue.

[Soulburner]

After confusing everyone here, I have figured it out.

Any settings such as Sharpening, Color, Contrast, and Saturation that are set in-camera, will load and show in Capture NX. They do not show in Photoshop or any other program.

My thinking on this is that the settings are set like "tags" that are read by Nikon's software. They ride along with the file, but do not actually alter the picture. That is why Nikon's software sees these "tags" and adjusts the picture inside the application. Photoshop and others will just load the photo as-is ignoring your in-camera settings. After playing with many test shots tonight I got the two looking pretty close and that is how I came to this conclusion.

It wasn't a total waste of a day though, I did learn more about color space than I did before, and that Adobe RGB (what I shot in yesterday) is not the right choice despite what Nikon tells me.

So from now on it's just straight shooting in sRGB mode, loading the NEF into Bridge/Photoshop and using Adobe Camera Raw.

Hopefully someone will find this one day and not have to spend all day sorting it out like I did.

[MaxxxRacer]

interesting. I will have to see what color space i have it set to. What is the difference between the different color spaces?

[Soulburner]

This is from Ken Rockwell...

Color Mode Ia (one-a, sRGB) is default. It's normal and boring.

Color Mode II (two, Adobe RGB) gives dull colors. Don't touch this unless you really know what you're doing and print your own work. See Adobe RGB vs. sRGB.

Color Mode IIIa (three-a, also sRGB) gives bolder colors. I use it all the time.

Also sRGB vs. Adobe RGB (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm)

[MaxxxRacer]

Gotta love Ken. Dam smart guy.

Well thankfully I have been shooting in sRGB (d40x default) the whole time.

With regard to captureNX and the settings applied to the RAW file: With JPG all of the in camera settings are applied to the photo and cannot be changed. With a RAW photo, the origional data from the sensor is left intact and all of the in camera settings are saved within the file and be applied or not applied when you actually save the file to another format in captureNX. This is great for pros who really mess with each file, but for ppl like me who dont have the time to mess around with this, its just a pain in the ass.

[iadstudio]

If you're printing the image you really should only deal in RAW or TIFF. Also, Abobe's RAW conversion is meant to give you the most RAW file available, without any post processing. That's the whole point in RAW files. Personally, I prefer doing my own adjustments in bridge and don't like what most cameras produce for you. However, I'm using a Cannon and have heard good things about the Nikons.

[Soulburner]

I am shooting in Raw.

.nef = Nikon's raw format.

The whole point of this was to find why my colors were different between programs and which one was right. I got to the bottom of it and will now use ACR as I am satisfied with its abilities.

[MaxxxRacer]

Acr??

[iadstudio]

hmmm, you got me thinking. I just found this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/mswanson/archive/2007/03/30/canon-raw-codec-for-windows-vista-released.aspx

I'm going to try the Cannon RAW plugin and see if it makes a difference. If Bridge is inferior to the Nikon version, I woudl expect Canon to do the same.

[Soulburner]

Acr??
Adobe Camera Raw - it pops up (shown in 1st post) when you load a raw image. I'm using version 4.4 which is the latest.


hmmm, you got me thinking. I just found this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/mswanson/archive/2007/03/30/canon-raw-codec-for-windows-vista-released.aspx

I'm going to try the Cannon RAW plugin and see if it makes a difference. If Bridge is inferior to the Nikon version, I woudl expect Canon to do the same.
Interesting...is that for Vista only?

All that does is let Windows "see" raw files like jpegs or bitmaps and show thumbnails when browsing them in a folder. Normally the raw data is unreadable by the OS.

[MaxxxRacer]

Adobe Camera Raw - it pops up (shown in 1st post) when you load a raw image. I'm using version 4.4 which is the latest.


Interesting...is that for Vista only?

All that does is let Windows "see" raw files like jpegs or bitmaps and show thumbnails when browsing them in a folder. Normally the raw data is unreadable by the OS.

IIRC with Breeze Browser I am able to view NEF's in Windows Explorer. I will have to double check, but I beleve this is the case.

When using ACR, how are you going to get it to Apply all of the in-camera settings that NX does?

[Soulburner]

I'm not worried about it. Your only options aren't that exciting - Image Sharpening, Tone Compensation (contrast), Color Mode, Saturation, Hue Adjustment.

Addendum. After much playing and tweaking last night, I have futher confirmed that no matter what settings are used in the camera, the output from Adobe Camera RAW remains the same. Only the image in Nikon Capture NX changes with the camera settings.

The image in Adobe looks more natural, or true to life. Nikon's version of the image looks much too saturated, and the colors aren't right. That example that I posted is an exception, and I'm sure I could even better that look with some adjustments. The shots I took around the house of colorful items helped me calibrate the settings on my camera so that it looks very close to what I will see when I upload them to the computer, which is another issue I had. Due to camera settings, what I was seeing on the camera's LCD looked different than the image on my computer. Now my images are constant from start to finish, which helps me better judge my pictures when I am out shooting. Looks like I have no use for Capture NX.

I ended up with:

Image Sharpening: None
Tone Compensation: Auto
Color Mode: Ia (sRGB)
Saturation: (0) Normal
Hue Adjustment: 0

[MaxxxRacer]

Interesting.. And all of this could be avoided by using JPEG.. lol.

[Soulburner]

Sad but true :(

But I just had to mess with RAW...

[MaxxxRacer]

Sad but true :(

But I just had to mess with RAW...

I know how you feel. When I got my D40x I shot in raw for a day or two. I then attempted to do what you are doing right now and after realising that my computer cant handle it and its just too time consuming (and i would end up converting to JPG anyway) that I gave up on it.

[Soulburner]

One thing I'll be able to do with RAW that I can't with JPEG is lens correction. ACR has sliders for correcting distortion, vignetting, and chromatic aberrations. Pretty slick if you ask me.

That along with correcting incorrect White Balance, Clarity and a few other things make this pretty compelling.

[itznfb]

why don't you use nikon's software to load and process the raw images? it handles them natively instead of converting.

[MaxxxRacer]

One thing I'll be able to do with RAW that I can't with JPEG is lens correction. ACR has sliders for correcting distortion, vignetting, and chromatic aberrations. Pretty slick if you ask me.

That along with correcting incorrect White Balance, Clarity and a few other things make this pretty compelling.

Photoshop does all of those things with JPG....Though I will admit that for CA and vignetting, DxO owns all other software.

[Soulburner]

itznfb;2869553']why don't you use nikon's software to load and process the raw images? it handles them natively instead of converting.
Already explained why - not very good results.

And I don't have to convert anything. CS3/ACR opens .NEF files natively.

[itznfb]

Already explained why - not very good results.

And I don't have to convert anything. CS3/ACR opens .NEF files natively.

i don't believe capturenx comes with the camera for processing. at least my d50, and d300 didn't. they came with a cd with pictureproject witch had a native working environment that loaded the picture as if you were working with real film. the results are flawless.

cs3 does not work with the native format from my d300 or d50, i had to download a plug-in, and it converts the image, hence the quality degradation.

[Soulburner]

The D80 comes with the CaptureNX trial disc.

And CS3 does in fact open .NEF files, I've been doing it for a couple of weeks now. You have the option to convert to Digital Negative format, but you don't have to.

[MaxxxRacer]

itznfb;2871407']i don't believe capturenx comes with the camera for processing. at least my d50, and d300 didn't. they came with a cd with pictureproject witch had a native working environment that loaded the picture as if you were working with real film. the results are flawless.

cs3 does not work with the native format from my d300 or d50, i had to download a plug-in, and it converts the image, hence the quality degradation.

contact NIkon and they will give you a free copy of Capture NX becasue you purchased a D300.

[itznfb]

The D80 comes with the CaptureNX trial disc.

And CS3 does in fact open .NEF files, I've been doing it for a couple of weeks now. You have the option to convert to Digital Negative format, but you don't have to.

hmm... i just read an article a couple weeks ago in a magazine my dad had that was talking about their ACR and how its basically like taking an NEF file, converting to jpeg, then converting it back to raw. is there a different way to do it? am i just missing something?


contact NIkon and they will give you a free copy of Capture NX becasue you purchased a D300.

is it worth it? i already have CS3 and the photoproject software that came with it does an excellent job with raw images, it just doesn't have a lot of tools to work with.

[Soulburner]

CNX is similar to CS3 - the shortcut keys, history, overall layout/ui is almost copied. It just has far fewer tools and features. It does have control points, which some people like. I would stick with PS.

It can't do layers though which is one of the reasons I don't do it. I only apply Unsharp Mask to the Lightness layer in Lab Color mode - CNX would make me apply a blanket USM over the entire image.