Going to buy new AMD machine!

[rintamarotta]

Well im going to buy new amd machine, im planning to go for Phenom 9600BE
or then i go for something like A64 X2 5600+.

I need succestions about best possible overclocking and benchmarking amd hardware, money isnt issue in here.

- Case+PSU : Antec P190 with one of two included psu's + Thermaltake Toughpower 1500W
- CPU : AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ BE
- Motherboard : DFI LP UT 790FX-M2R
- Mushkin XP2-8000 4Gb Kit (2x2Gb) (or some other good 2x2Gb kits that do hit 1100-1200Mhz)
- HDD : 2 x WD Raptor 150Gb SATA (Raid 0), 2 x WD Caviar 1TB SATA (Raid 1)
- Graphics : 2 x Sapphire Radeon HD3870X2 1GB PCI-E



Also im getting blue-ray dvd burner, 3 lcd screens 24-30", keyboard, mouse, cooling, and case + psu.

I need just succestions since i have been mostly in Intel world :)


EDIT :
Phenom is not option anymore.
And this pc goes to my brother after i have tested how far it overclocks and benched it.

[Jowy Atreides]

Well im going to buy new amd machine, im planning to go for Phenom 9600BE
or then i go for something like A64 X2 5600+.

I need succestions about best possible overclocking and benchmarking amd hardware, money isnt issue in here.

CPU : Phenom 9600BE or A64 X2 5600+ or A64 X2 6000+
Motherboard : DFI LP UT 790FX-M2R or GIGABYTE GA-MA790FX-DQ6
Memory : Mushkin 4GB XP2-8000 Kit (well yeah 2 x 2Gb sticks are must)
HDD : 2 x WD Raptor 150Gb SATA (Raid 0), 2 x WD Caviar 1TB SATA (Raid 1)
Graphics : 2 x Radeon HD3870X2 1GB PCI-E (havent desided exact card yet)

Also im getting blue-ray dvd burner, 3 lcd screens 24-30", keyboard, mouse, cooling, and case + psu.

I need just succestions since i have been mostly in Intel world :)

If I may be so impertinent to ask, why get a new amd machine?

You have (acording to the sig) 2 amazing pcs already and if you needed a 3rd then you should be able to get a cheap overclocked c2d system that would equal a phenom one

[SoulsCollective]

Let m = money, s = sense and n = >9,000

n(m) > s

[Jowy Atreides]

Let m = money, s = sense and n = >9,000

n(m) > s

it's over 9 thousand!!!!!!!

[kazgirl]

No that equation is a bit odd though...there's no need for the 'n' value at all...

Its been put in t represent a high value figure i.e.

more= n
money = m
sense = s

With the >9000 meant to represent 'more'

as I say no need to use the 'n' value in that equation at all...

just put it as:

m>s so m greater than s = more money than sense


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:
----------------------------------------------

[SoulsCollective]

But m only becomes greater than s when m passes a certain point.

[KTE]

Well im going to buy new amd machine, im planning to go for Phenom 9600BE
or then i go for something like A64 X2 5600+.

I need succestions about best possible overclocking and benchmarking amd hardware, money isnt issue in here.

CPU : Phenom 9600BE or A64 X2 5600+ or A64 X2 6000+
Motherboard : DFI LP UT 790FX-M2R or GIGABYTE GA-MA790FX-DQ6I would stick with the DFI board but I can't give you an opinion on what to choose between CPU's. You have not listed if you're going to keep it, just test it, why you want it and for what exact use?
What benchmarks/overclocks are you planning on achieving under what exact cooling?

Have you read how difficult oc, Vista 64b, and 2x2GB are to get running properly with Phenoms?
Have you read how 2.55G is av. max for Phenom 9600 BE fully stable?
Have you read how difficult it is to stop Phenom from dying when oc'd much?
Have you read how Phenom degrades over use and stress?
Have you read how SB600 and AHCI are not an option with this system?
Have you read how poor MEM oc is with Phenom?

Phenom at 2.6G will beat X2 at 3G quite obviously in the vast majority of multi-threaded applications. Clock for clock Phenom core is faster than K8 core. If you know how to oc a Phenom, then you can get more out of it by oc'ing sub-system components like the IMC, PCIe and HT. It's your choice what you want or why.

I need just succestions since i have been mostly in Intel world :)Then you've got a mammoth task ahead of you if you're buying a Phenom... just to figure it out, since it behaves and is configured so much differently to Intel or previous AMD CPU's. :)

[Jowy Atreides]

No that equation is a bit odd though...there's no need for the 'n' value at all...

Its been put in t represent a high value figure i.e.

more= n
money = m
sense = s

With the >9000 meant to represent 'more'

as I say no need to use the 'n' value in that equation at all...

just put it as:

m>s so m greater than s = more money than sense


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:
----------------------------------------------

it's just a fun thing, you never seen the it's over 9 thousand sketch?

like when the ps3 sold for over 9,000?

[kazgirl]

But m only becomes greater than s when m passes a certain point.


That would only be the case where the values 'm' and 's' had specific values of their own....

in which case you would need to define the value of 's' and the value of 'm' and then define another value (in your case 'n') to provide a representation of rintamarotta

So using your example of trying to say "rintamarotta has more money than sense" in a formulaic value by assigning a numeric figure to equate a specific value, you would need to also assign a numeric value that equates to a defintion of the term 'sense' i.e.

sense is defined by a numeric value of money first so:

s = sense
m = money

s = m<9000

So in the above: sense equals any scenario where money equals a number less than 9000.

Then you need to add a variable to represent the user (rintamarotta) which in this case we shall call 'n' then we need to represent that rintamorotta has more money than sense as follows:

s = sense, m = money, n = rintamarotta

s = m<9000
n = m(9000)

So now we can see that sense (s) is defined as a situation where money (m) is less than a number of 9000.

and that 'n' has an m of 9000 whereas sense is defined as being less than 9000.


However the best equation to provide the argument " rintamarotta has more money than sense" would be:

m = money
s = sense
n = rintamarotta

n=m>s

Just to keep the fun going..... :D:D:D:D:D:D

[KTE]

Completely offtopic guys. Let's keep it ontopic and help the OP as he requested :)

[kazgirl]

Completely offtopic guys. Let's keep it ontopic and help the OP as he requested :)

Ooops...your right of course...so sorry..!!

@rintamarotta

I would say I agree with what KTE says in his post above....

There a major differences between K8 and K10, for overclocking, as woulld be expected for a new architecture.... there were big differences between Intelk OC'ng and AMD OC'ng before and now theres a difference between K8 and K10 OC'ng as well, so if you get an X2 CPU and OC that, and then upgrade to a Phenom later, then you'll have to learn a different technique for OC'ng that CPU again.

To be honest if money is no object, I can't see any reason why you would want to build an AMD PC, as after all the only real point to getting AMD over Intel is for price reasons....everybody knows that (at the moment at least) Intel performs way, way better than AMD...... from what I've seen so far, AMD's best Quad doesn't even match Intels worst Quad.....

OK there's a lot of reasons that may be behind this such as the TLB Errata, software coding, BIOS implementation, etc...etc.... but at present all benchmarks and testing bears out the fact that Intel outperforms AMD....

AMD is good as a budget alternative to Intel, but if money is no concern then there really is no need to go AMD....!!

If on the other hand you just WANT to build an AMD just for the sake of seeing whats the best AMD PC you can build...... then thats fine of course...

And if money is no object then the easiest thing to do is buy the most expensive of everything, simple answer really....!!!!

Money is an object to me, and I have a Phenom and want to get a new AM2+ mobo, I'm looking for an AM2+ mobo that will offer maximum performance from the rest of the hardware I currently have, as the mobo will be the 1st upgrade, then the RAM and then the gfx card, which will be change to 3870X2 when money permits.

Anyway whatever you do get, I wish you the best for your new build.

[madfaze]

wait for the b3's...

[PPInDaHouse]

wait for the b3's...

oh c'mon, AMD will have to study a lot to fight with Intel in the future..

AMD days are gone:D

[rintamarotta]

Well, i buy this AMD machine because after i have benched and oc'd, it will be pc for my brother, hes AMD fanboy forever, he dont want intel pc :)

Based on your comments and reading forums, i think ill skip phenom and go for 6000+ BE or something similar, any succestions?

And about that 9000 joke, well not going to buy that expensive machine it will be somewhere less.

EDIT :
m=money
n=rintamarotta
s=sense

Equals to : (m+n) > s

[kazgirl]

Well, i buy this AMD machine because after i have benched and oc'd, it will be pc for my brother, hes AMD fanboy forever, he dont want intel pc :)

Based on your comments and reading forums, i think ill skip phenom and go for 6000+ BE or something similar, any succestions?

And about that 9000 joke, well not going to buy that expensive machine it will be somewhere less.

EDIT :
m=money
n=rintamarotta
s=sense

Equals to : (m+n) > s


Hiya,

The 6400+ BE is the better of the X2's IMO, though price/performance the 5000+BE is the best to get.

The 6400+BE has the x16 CPU Multi and higher stock clocks, whereas the 5000+BE has an upwards unlocked multiplier, but has the smaller L2 cache...!!

I have a 6400+BE and its OC'd to 3520Mhz 24/7 stable and gives better gaming/benchmarking performance than the Phenom 9500 does in my current mobo....



3dmark06
=======

6400+BE @ 3520Mhz = 12973
Phenom @ 2200Mhz TLB Fix enabled = 8900
Phenom @ 2200Mhz TLB Fix disabled = 11300

Phenom won't OC at all on this mobo though, whether its my particuar CPU or an issue with the BIOS I'm unsure, as until the latest BIOS (1802) became available last week, I've not even been able to run the Phenom at stock wihtout getting random BSOD's..... and even now with this latest BIOS, whilst it is now 100% stable at stock, even trying to OC as little as 10Mhz on the HT Freq, causes BSOD's and boot failures.... whereas the 6400+ is rock stable in the same PC, usijng BIOS 1201, using any later BIOS than 1201, i.e. any BIOS with Phenom support causes problems...!!! Thats for the M2N32SLI AM2 mobo..... havn't tried an AM2+ mobo with the 6400+ though so can't give any info on that I'm afraid.

PS: No I've never seen the 9000 sketch is that a US thing or something..????

[KTE]

3dmark06
=======

6400+BE @ 3520Mhz = 12973
Phenom @ 2200Mhz TLB Fix enabled = 8900
Phenom @ 2200Mhz TLB Fix disabled = 11300

Can you post links or ss (small) of those scores please showing CPU/MEM/GPU settings and speeds with the final scores for SM2/SM3/CPU?

I'll tell you why I ask; Phenom 9500 2.2G scores approx. 900 more than a 3.52G X2 in 2k6.

With the same cards, either what you said only applies to your cards because they're nV and not ATi on an ATi platform or you have some OS/BIOS problems.

2k6:
X2 3.5G CPU score would be around 2500
If Phenom 2.2GHz runs fine and the GPU's are running fine, you should in that case get at least 14000 now.

Secondly, your 90nm CPU runs very hot and you're at 1.45V for that. The BE 5000+ runs much cooler and oc's better with far more consistency. You are on watercooling for those MHz, and watercooling Phenom usually gets 2.8-3.0GHz stable if you know what you're doing. ;)

[kazgirl]

Hi KTE,

Here's the best I can do, I only got the free version of 3dm06 so can't put compare url's for all the results, only 1, but I've uploaded some pics to photobucket and put links to them instead....

Can't fit all the details in one screenshot thanks to the new format on ORB.... but the CPU speeds were:

Phenom 2200MHz | GPU 2 x 8800GTS 320MB 612/900 | RAM 800MHz 5-5-5-16 2T

6400+ @ 3520MHz , GPU ( exactly same as above and drivers) RAM 880MHz 4-4-4-12 2T

I'll try a pic here to see how big it is, if too big then I'll post the links instead....

Total 3dm06 Results Details
=====================

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/3dm06MyResults.jpg

6400+ @ 3520MHz
==============

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/6400_12973.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/6400_12973.jpg

Phenom @ Stock and TLB Fix Enabled
============================

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/PhenomTLBEnabled_8947.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/PhenomTLBEnabled_8947.jpg

Phenom @ Stock and TLB Disabled
===========================

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/PhenomTLBDisabled_11304.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k281/Kazphill/PhenomTLBDisabled_11304.jpg

[KTE]

Hmm.. yeah, your GPU scores are badly down. I can't tell why like this but one definite reason is HT.

[nn_step]

The real question is what exactly you want it to do.
Only after that should we even consider making suggestions

[rintamarotta]

As edited in main post, i will after benchmarking and overclocking give that pc to my brother who will mostlikely run games and other cpu, gpu and memory intensive programs, i would buy intel pc but hes sweared to be AMD fanboy untill hes death comes.

So for now machine looks like :
- Antec P190 + One of included PSU's + Thermaltake Toughpower 1500W (at least everything got enought power overall around 2150Watt's of insanity)
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ BE
- DFI LP UT 790FX-M2R
- Mushkin XP2-8000 4Gb Kit (2x2Gb) (or some other good 2x2Gb kits that do hit 1100-1200Mhz)
- HDD : 2 x WD Raptor 150Gb SATA (Raid 0), 2 x WD Caviar 1TB SATA (Raid 1)
- Graphics : 2 x Sapphire Radeon HD3870X2 1GB PCI-E

[LIKMARK]

I'm thinking you got way too low cpu scores for both your Athlon X2 and your Phenom with those gfx cards.

[kazgirl]

I'm thinking you got way too low cpu scores for both your Athlon X2 and your Phenom with those gfx cards.


Hmm.. yeah, your GPU scores are badly down. I can't tell why like this but one definite reason is HT.

Yeah I had noticed that my CPU score had gone up with the Phenom but the GPU Scores had dropped, now I know when I OC'd the 6400+ I kept my HT Multi at x5 so the HT Speed was 1100MHz the HT Freq being 220Mhz, whereas the Phenom at stock was 200MHz x 5 = 1000MHz but that should't account for as big a difference as I was seeing..... it seemed to me that the Phenom lower clock speed was severly bottlenecking the cards, that was my thought on it..... anyway.. so the extra cores were helping my CPU score on the CPU bound parts of the test, but the lower clocks bottlenecking the cards were dropping my GPU scores.... that was my interpretation of it...!! What do you think..????

Of course this is all on an AM2 mobo, without PCI-e 2.0 and with HT 2.0 rather than HT 3.0 as well....which is why I'm looking into getting the M3A32-MVP mobo to see if it can improve things a bit....




The real question is what exactly you want it to do.
Only after that should we even consider making suggestions

Well I'm looking for best overall performance from my PC, its used for gaming and also for video conversion, mostly converting DVD to AVI/DivX format for my MP3/4 player.....as well as the the other usual stuff, internet, office applicaitons, etc..... so its a kind of all rounder really...!!

@rintamarotta

Sorry if I've hijacked this thread a bit...... but some of the info may well be relevant to your choices as well, so I hope its OK....that looks like an excellent rig your putting together now....the one thing I would say is that I recently saw a review of Crossfire-X where it showed that 3 GPU's scaled better than 4 GPU's there was next to no improvment using 2 x 3870X2's over using 1 x 3870X2 and 1 x 3870, and it concluded that the 'sweet spot' for Crossfire-X was 3 GPU's.... I'll try to find the link for that and post it for you.... EDIT: Link to Anandtech review: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3256

Thaks all for the replies and info.

Kaz

[LIKMARK]

Sounds like driver issues.

[rintamarotta]

Sorry if I've hijacked this thread a bit...... but some of the info may well be relevant to your choices as well, so I hope its OK....that looks like an excellent rig your putting together now....the one thing I would say is that I recently saw a review of Crossfire-X where it showed that 3 GPU's scaled better than 4 GPU's there was next to no improvment using 2 x 3870X2's over using 1 x 3870X2 and 1 x 3870, and it concluded that the 'sweet spot' for Crossfire-X was 3 GPU's.... I'll try to find the link for that and post it for you.... EDIT: Link to Anandtech review: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3256

Thaks all for the replies and info.

Kaz


Hmm, interesting... it really sounds like driver problems since 2 3870x2's in Crossfire should be allmost double the performance than single card.

But for now i keap 2 of those HD3870X2's in that machine since it still goes better with high resolutions.