is it me, or is Ceramique, and the Prometeia, a really bad combo?

[Kunaak]

I was using some Stars 350, despite what others say in reviews, that stuff is incredible in my prometiea, but I ran out, and can't seem to find anymore.

so I bought some ceramique, and the temps are about 10C off from what stars 350 was doing. this is terrible.
now I need to find a good thermal paste again, cause this ceramique stuff sucks in my prometiea.

anyone else have this same experience?

:confused:

[Vatt]

I'm still searching for a good sub-zero compound, as I also do not
like the Ceramique much.
I have not had that kind of temp difference as you, maybe 5°C
hotter than using the thick Shin-Etsu that comes with a retail P4
3.0c

If you find some good compound let me know.

[LORD]

Hmm I was thinking of getting some of the Ceramique. If it's not good I guess that settles it.

I'm back on AS3 for now!!

[TheDude]

Anyone try the nanotherm silver xtc with sub zero?

[Kunaak]

ok I know this is gonna go completly against the grain for every recent thermal paste review/shoot out.

but if you can find "Stars 350" give that a try, I'd buy that stuff again in a heartbeat.
with that I was sitting at idle at -42, underload at -36.

now it's -36 at idle, and -29 at load.

this ceramique stuff sucks on my prometeia, but it's all I have.
I might have to cut my stars 350 case open and swab the last paste outta it, cause this ceramique stuff sucks ;)

[Sick0fthelies]

whered you get your stars 350?

[LORD]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
Im using ceramic thing is M8 ya have to let it sit in for about 2hours as its sooooo thick, but after that burn in its awsome.. also the 1.99 radioshck silicone paste is outstanding

I've tried the white goop as well. It's not bad at all.

Only 2 hours for the Ceramique that's pretty good. With AS3 you run it for a while turn the system off for the night and next day temps are lower. Burn-in settling in process.

[LORD]

Originally posted by TheDude
Anyone try the nanotherm silver xtc with sub zero?

Nope haven't tried it here. Probably won't in the future....

[Ewok]

Originally posted by Kunaak
ok I know this is gonna go completly against the grain for every recent thermal paste review/shoot out.

but if you can find "Stars 350" give that a try, I'd buy that stuff again in a heartbeat.
with that I was sitting at idle at -42, underload at -36.

now it's -36 at idle, and -29 at load.

i am assuming we are talking evap temps here (because you wont get cpu temps anything close to that without a cascade, if these are cpu temps then ignore all of the following anyway) in which case, does logic not dictate that if the evap is warmer, then the heat from the cpu is being transferred to it far more efficiently, thus cooling the chip itself significantly better?

to put it another way. if you stick the evap on the chip with no thermal paste at all, youll see an evap temp of maybe -60c. does that mean that using no paste is better? think about it.

[Kunaak]

Originally posted by Sick0fthelies
whered you get your stars 350?

I don't really know.
I have a pile of junk pastes, pastes that come with various hardware, you know, heatsinks, waterblocks, pelts, among other things, this was in that junk pile.
ran out of artic silver 3 last month, and just picked this out of the pile, and was just amazed at how well it did.
AS3 was no comparison for it.
but I only had a tiny sample tube, and used it 2-3 times before it was all gone :(

[Gary Lloyd]

does logic not dictate that if the evap is warmer, then the heat from the cpu is being transferred to it far more efficiently, thus cooling the chip itself significantly better?


Good point, and absolutely correct.

If we place temperature sensors on two opposing heat transfer surfaces, and there is perfect heat transfer, the temperatures will be identical. There is no such thing as perfect heat transfer, therefore we judge the efficiency by the difference between the temperatures. The less difference, the better the heat transfer. The numbers tell us nothing. The space between the numbers tells the story.

[Nohto]

with that I was sitting at idle at -42, underload at -36.

now it's -36 at idle, and -29 at load
Not a good wayto look at it.



in which case, does logic not dictate that if the evap is warmer, then the heat from the cpu is being transferred to it far more efficiently, thus cooling the chip itself significantly better?
I would have to agree with this logic.
The evap temps are a poor method of judging thermal paste quality/efficiency. If you could get accurate cpu temps, this would be a good way to evaluate thermal paste, but the best method is your overal OC results or performance. Isn't this what your after in the first place, and isn't this what really counts?

[Kunaak]

I have no idea what you guys are argueing about...

[KennethChong]

Im using Ceramique, works great for me.

[Mav]

I have the same problem!!!
I was using AS3 and the temps on the CPU were -27º, -28º, now i tried the Ceramique and the temps on the cpu are -19º, -20º more or less! Time to get back to AS3!

[ellsworth]

if you are reading the temps off of the digital display the hotter the temp means the better the thermal paste is transfering the heat to the evap, that is for the cooling side, which would be a good thing to read. if your temps are warmer on the cpu side (no way of accurately telling) then the thermal paste is doing a worse job at transfering the heat to the evap. basicly if your evap is warmer your prom is removing more heat than it would be if it was reading colder. removing more heat would be a plus.

[Kunaak]

Originally posted by ellsworth
if you are reading the temps off of the digital display the hotter the temp means the better the thermal paste is transfering the heat to the evap, that is for the cooling side, which would be a good thing to read. if your temps are warmer on the cpu side (no way of accurately telling) then the thermal paste is doing a worse job at transfering the heat to the evap. basicly if your evap is warmer your prom is removing more heat than it would be if it was reading colder. removing more heat would be a plus.

thanks for translating it to english for me, I get ya now.

heres where I see my temps.
where you see it showing -32c...
that use to be alot lower.
-41C was average with stars 350.

this shot is just taken, with the ceramique.
same CPU, board, everything.
just cruising the net, nothing very intensive.
all default (burning CD's tonight)
even at default the temps suck :rolleyes:

[Creative]

I went from AS3 to Ceramique a few weeks ago and my temps have gotten BETTER by about 5 degrees :)

I used to sit at about 22ish for my speeds in my sig and now I sit at about 17ish. Definantly a nice improvement :)

The trick to this ceramique imo is to only put about a drop the size of your little finger nail, and then I just use my finger to spread it over the IHS.....it will turn a kind of dark blacky colour but I think this is ok cos it changes colour even when I use a blade to smooth it over :)

It wont look like its covering...but it is :)

My 2 cents :)

ps
Kunaak, is that the prommy software or another monitor?
:)

[uclajd]

Originally posted by TheDude
Anyone try the nanotherm silver xtc with sub zero? Check out this Techware Labs (http://www.techwarelabs.com) review, wherein XTC comes out well for pelts. Not sub-zero, but the closest review I've seen.

Thermal Paste Comparison (http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/cooling/thermal_paste/index_8.shtml)

Numbers (http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/cooling/thermal_paste/index_5.shtml)

Heat Sink Fan Combinations:

1. Shin Etsu G751
2. Nanotherm PCM+
3. Arctic Silver 3

Water Cooled Systems:

1. Shin Etsu G751
2. Nanotherm PCM+
3. Nanotherm Blue II

Peltier/Water Cooled Systems:

1. Nanotherm Silver XTC
2. Arctic Silver 3
3. Nanotherm Blue II Interesting how one paste, great for H2O, sucks for colder solutions, and vice-versa.

FWIWYMMV,

JD

[berkut]

Kunaak, did you "burn in" the paste by running the system @ low volt/mhz settings (@ max cpu temp wich it can withstand), i know that Major Slaughter (sorry if i misspelled your nick) did what i said and his temp. improved (as well as o/c)

[NyCUndaGrounD]

Originally posted by TheDude
Anyone try the nanotherm silver xtc with sub zero?

I have used the Nanotherm XTC with the Ic7-G and the P4c800-e and i get an average of -10 to -5 temp at load. Well when i switched to the red capped Shin-Etsu stuff and let it burn in for a week i get about -22 at load and -25 at idle.

Ive also noticed the Nanotherm stuf is very greasy and easy to apply. But when the compressor heads goes on, SPLAT! It spreads out and leaves some uneven spots without the paste on it.

I think thicker paste would be better for vapor-phase cooling because it can withstand the pressure of the compressor head.

[uclajd]

Originally posted by NyCUndaGrounD
Well when i switched to the red capped Shin-Etsu stuff and let it burn in for a week i get about -22 at load and -25 at idle. :confused:

Red-capped? Do you mean Shin Etsu G751 or the stuff Coolermaster sells?

[Creative]

Hmmm I have some of that red capped Shin Etsu here now....might be worth a try then Kunaak?

Also have the blue capped one too :)

[Kunaak]

I'd love to try shin etsu or anything else.
this ceramique stuff just sucks as far as I am concerned.
for my air cooled PC it's great, but for the prometeia it's about the worst I've used so far :(

[Gary Lloyd]

Reading this thread, it sounds to me like ceramique works very well. The problem is not knowing how to judge the results.

[Kunaak]

theres not much to read.

one reports -40.
one reads -30 something.

I suppose next time I get a heatsink I'll just pick one that gets me the highest temps, cause then I know it's working...

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Reading this thread, it sounds to me like ceramique works very well. The problem is not knowing how to judge the results.

That Id have to agree with.

Yes my evap temps rose when I switched from ASIII to AS Ceramique (by 2 deg C). But I gained another 11 MHz on my oc. Not much I know, but better than going backwards :)

This indicates that the heat is being more eficiently transfered to the evaporator.

Burn-in of the TIM was also much quicker. The ASIII normally took 2 days to get to its best, but the ceramique was good from the start.

[Gary Lloyd]

Yes my evap temps rose when I switched from ASIII to AS Ceramique (by 2 deg C). But I gained another 11 MHz on my oc. Not much I know, but better than going backwards

This indicates that the heat is being more eficiently transfered to the evaporator.



All else being equal, yes. Of course, this assumes that all else is equal. :D

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
All else being equal, yes. Of course, this assumes that all else is equal. :D

everything else was equal. Done a few hours apart on exactly the same H/W and same ambient temps.

At first I thought that I must have stuffed up my evap install with the ASIII so I pulled the whole lot down and repeated the whole process. The result didnt change.

[Gary Lloyd]

Yep. :D

The more accurate measurement is the difference between CPU temp and evap temp. The less the difference, the better the heat transfer.

The numbers tell us nothing. The space between the numbers tell us everything.

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Yep. :D

The more accurate measurement is the difference between CPU temp and evap temp. The less the difference, the better the heat transfer.

The numbers tell us nothing. The space between the numbers tell us everything.

without decent on-chip temp measurements thats going to be impossible to obtain. The in-socket temp measurements are a joke.

The only way I have to judge the quality of the paste is by the overclock, which can be a very coarse measurement.

[Kunaak]

none of this makes any sense any more.

the idea is for the prometeia to cool the CPU as cold as possible.
the thermal paste transfers the heat to the CPu to keep it nice and cold under the harshest of conditions.

by what you guys say, the thermal paste transfers the heat from the CPU to the prometeia, to make it as warm as possible, and thats a good thing...
which makes zero sense to me.

why even use a prometeia if thats the idea...

yep, lost patience, cause it just doesn't make sense, and no ones explaining anything, just saying "you don't know this and that"

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by Kunaak
none of this makes any sense any more.

the idea is for the prometeia to cool the CPU as cold as possible.
the thermal paste transfers the heat to the CPu to keep it nice and cold under the harshest of conditions.

by what you guys say, the thermal paste transfers the heat from the CPU to the prometeia, to make it as warm as possible, and thats a good thing...
which makes zero sense to me.

why even use a prometeia if thats the idea...

yep, lost patience, cause it just doesn't make sense, and no ones explaining anything, just saying "you don't know this and that"

yeah, it can sound a bit silly.

But consider that the evap temp sensor is no where near the CPU (sits on top of the evap). The goal is for a colder CPU not colder evap.

[Kunaak]

but I just posted the picture where I take my readings.

look about 3-4 posts of mine back, big MSI pic right there with the temps and everything.
the board doesn't take its readings from the prometiea...

if I sound short temperd here, it's late, I am tired, and not thinking to much about what I sau.

[CodeRed]

Originally posted by Kunaak
but I just posted the picture where I take my readings.

look about 3-4 posts of mine back, big MSI pic right there with the temps and everything.
the board doesn't take its readings from the prometiea...

if I sound short temperd here, it's late, I am tired, and not thinking to much about what I sau.

Did you apply it as a thin layer (like ASIII) or the blob method as suggested by AS.

I use the thin layer method ... using a plastic bag.

Defintely weird results ... I cant read the CPU temp to see if its better or worse (AMD setup), but my oc results are quite repeatable on both ASIII and Ceramique

[runmc]

Let's assume the prommie is working properly.

When the processor gets hot, the heat travels from the processor to the evaporator.

If the temperature readout on the prommie is reading -20 with paste A and -10 with paste B, then that means that paste B is transferring more heat to the evaporator, and making the evaporator probe read hotter.(That's what you want)

By transferring more heat to your evaporator, the processor will be cooler.


If you are reading temperatures from the bios or some other program, then the reading are obvious. Most mobo temp monitors are inaccurate, so exact measurement is a shot in the dark.

Don't be fooled thinking that if the temp readout on the prommie itself is reading a colder temperature, then the processor is colder, it means that the evaporator isn't absorbing as much heat from the processor because of thermal paste or mounting.

Did that really confuse you. I hope not.

I pulled the prommie head off of my processor yestarday, and it looked like the AS3 had (run) down the face of the processor. I don't know if it was the paste itself doing this , or if maybe it was condensation that had gotten between the cpu and prommie.

It's always something!!!!:confused:

I got some of the Shin Etsu I'm going to try, (red cap for whatever that means)

[Sick0fthelies]

I just found some of that stars 350 in my junk compound drawer and i think it either came with my slk-800 or the mcw-5000 from swiftech...

[Nico]

Originally posted by Kunaak
but I just posted the picture where I take my readings.

look about 3-4 posts of mine back, big MSI pic right there with the temps and everything.
the board doesn't take its readings from the prometiea...

if I sound short temperd here, it's late, I am tired, and not thinking to much about what I sau.

I think people are assuming your temps were from the evaporator, as they are extremely low for CPU temps.