Chilled TEC feasibility

[Keeper]

Ok guys; give it to me straight up………..is this worth doing?

I presently have a 404a chiller keeping my 1700+ CPU cooled to 11-17C depending on room temperature folding away 24/7 @2700 MHz. On hot days the CPU temp will rise to 17c, and on cooler days the temps will drop to 11C.

Here is what I need to know, I now have a MCW462-UHT w/ power supply to add to the mix. Will there be a worthwhile advantage to chilling the TEC with the 404a chiller?

Some questions;

Will I be able to run the setup 24/7 and maintain -10C or better water temps? (the CPU is the only component being chilled)

Will the chilled TEC provide a significantly cooler CPU under load, than my present setup?

Things to consider;

This chiller maintains fluid temps from -22C to -28C under a full load depending on room temps in the present setup.

I can either add this TEC to my sig system or put in on my KX7.

[TheDude]

I would think since you are hitting 17c on warm days with the chiller and considering the heat from the tec, you would be better off using the tec in the KX7. :2cents:

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by Keeper
Ok guys; give it to me straight up………..is this worth doing?

I presently have a 404a chiller keeping my 1700+ CPU cooled to 11-17C depending on room temperature folding away 24/7 @2700 MHz. On hot days the CPU temp will rise to 17c, and on cooler days the temps will drop to 11C.

Here is what I need to know, I now have a MCW462-UHT w/ power supply to add to the mix. Will there be a worthwhile advantage to chilling the TEC with the 404a chiller?


Some questions;

Will I be able to run the setup 24/7 and maintain -10C or better water temps? (the CPU is the only component being chilled)

Will the chilled TEC provide a significantly cooler CPU under load, than my present setup?

Things to consider;

This chiller maintains fluid temps from -22C to -28C under a full load depending on room temps in the present setup.


If your chiller is just enough to keep the unpelted CPU to run at that core temperature@ 2.7ghz@ 24/7, it may not be a good idea to add the peltier because it will simply increase the amount of heat that needs to be dumped out. Yes, your cooling and overclock will improve with the pelt + waterchill but that gain of overclock may not stay continuously once the chiller is not able to keep up with X amount of cooling power and start to warm up slowly. Overclockability of the CPU and Pelt are highly temperature dependent and sensitive. Even if you don't overclock to the edge with that pelt, the heat load is still gonna build up constantly. This where you'll start to see less efficiency in overclocking. So yes, like what TheDude has said, would be a good idea in my opinion. But you know, you can always try it and find out yourself for specific overclock result and if you don't like the extra heat being dumped, you could always go back to the good'ol wattachill.. :)

[Keeper]

The fluid temps are consistent regardless of the load I have put on the system so far. The CPU temps will change depending on what I do, but the fluid changes only as a result of air temperature in the room. If the room temps drop to 70F the fluid will drop too, but so far the chiller has handled everything the CPU can dish out.

How much more heat does a 266watt pelt put out in relation to a 1700+ @1.93volts?

[wymjym]

a quess on the 1700 is that it is using 110 watts, I don't know how much of that is going up in heat.
the 226 @ 15V does put out significant heat.
my 2600@2600mhz with just water had a high water temp of 36~38 on typical days---when working really hard for a long time, I added 225 watts of pelt to the mix and the hot water temp under max load for a loooooong time is 40~42.
So I guess you would need to try, a degree or two in temp rise seems reasonable.
all said, I agree with the 'burg' man (dude), put it on something else.
wj

[zippyc]

Is that still Opp's ole chiller you are using? If I remember correctly it had a bit of headroom, so yes...the additional heat is somthing to reckon with but not so much that it will overwhelm his chiller I think.

You might want to check with him and see what his results were with pelts and that chiller (if he tried pelts, I can't recall.)

If this is a smaller chiller, please disregard.

If it is big enough yes the pelt will improve temps quite a bit, yes the heat given off will be excessive, and yes you will get better bang for your buck using a pelt with regular water cooling on another chip instead of simply adding it to the existing system (you will get a greater MHZ improvement one vs the other, that is.)

On the other hand if you are trying to reach the lowest temps possible, I'd love to see your results chilling the pelt with the chiller.

Nice clock on that 1700. DLT3C? What week? Where did you get it and do they have more? I'm in the market,

[Keeper]

Zippy, ya this is OPP's old chiller, when I first set it up I was chilling CPU, GPU and NB and it handled them all, now I am just doing the CPU.

Yes it is a DLTC week 19; I bought it a SVC..........I don't know if they have any more.

Wj, thanks......that is what I am looking for..........Did that heat level off at 40C-44C or is that your shut down limit. What CPU temps did you get with your pelt on a regular setup?

[wymjym]

Hey Keeper,
42 was as hot as the water got...this is the hot side water going through a stand a lone cooler (techcool).
I don't like condensation so I have set up my system to maintain a set temperature and I set it at around 5~8 below ambient.
The cpu is not directly cooled by the pelt in my system...I'm cooling the water that goes to its block. The worse case I have ever seen is the cpu @ 14 (f) above the cooled water temp.

I'm satisfied with this and my upcoming project is a (reasonable) submersed system where the overall liquid temps don't permit condensation to form but the cpu/ng/gpu will be 'fed' freshly chilled liquid and then the resulting warmer liquid will become the 'pool' liquid where the entire mobo is submerged. If need be this affair might even be set in a see through wine chiller...allowing even lower -NO CONDENSATION- operating temps.
I have always been surprised by how stable my system would be in the winter time even though I apparantley can maintain the same cpu temps all year long. This had led me to believe that there are some more mhz available to everyone if the entire mobo is cooled some.
wj

[TheDude]

wymjym,

I have wanted to play with submerging a mobo also.....what liquid will you use? Some sort of oil?
Please post it up when you do it! :D

[wymjym]

It will either be oil
http://www.steoil.com

or 3M-florinert
but not if it is US$500/gallon as suggested

here is a current thread concerning the submersion (feel free to jump in)

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224405&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

wj

[zippyc]

I've always wondered if chilled water on top of pelt cooling would offer better heat removal than some direct phase change solutions.

Mickey, do I understand you correctly?...nothing else was changed other than the removal of the chilled pelt and replacement with the vapochill? What was your cpu temp reading after going to the vapo?

Keeper, that looks like another reason for you to give the chilled pelt a try there (if a top clock is your goal).

[IamAnoobieCheez]

Originally posted by MickeyMouse
a 226w tec with a 2700mhz 2v heat load is huge.
thank you sweetie. And not to mention he will be overclocking it further, because his current oc with the plain waterchill is 2.7ghz. His estimated theoretical clocks of 2.75~ 2.8+ghz@ around 2V is gonna even give off even more heat.



the 226w tec alone will double the heat that the cpu alone is making so your heat output will be 3x's the load on the chiller..
exactly...................

That's what I was trying to say to him. I just didn't get into the full detail of what amount of heat output he'll have to deal with due to some variations. But yes, the rough range of grand total of heat output of "3x" is bascially what I was getting at. Why 3x?.. the heat source 1 = CPU itself. heat source 2 & 3 = peltier of 226watt giving off twice the heat load what his CPU puts out@ that clock@ x voltage. That's why he said "3x". The peltier needs at least twice the amount of heat tranference power than what CPU puts out to make an highly effective cooling performance from the pelt'ed system. I don't have the detail numbers and calculations but what I am saying is true. I know how the basics and the principles of how the peltiers work and relate to heat, as well as MickeyMouse. He should get more credits because he's been experimenting/playing with these more than I do.



I ran a 226w swifty mcw462-uht at 14.8v with 4c chilled distilled water on my 2500+ hot ass running barton and kept temps under 2c at 2.06v at 2800mhz, WOW right ;) I swapped to vapochill PE to match the 226w tec without the chiller/hose mess and I lost about 100mhz and ever since Ive never had the stunning AMD setup i once had and it was one of the best you could ask for :(
thanks for your input.


Keeper, i do not advice you to just listen to what you want to hear from people. That is not the way to get good answers. I was trying to be realistic as possible when I replied to you. You also have to consider as your cpu clocks higher i.e. 2.75~ 2.8ghz(estimated) the heat load will be even greater. the heat output of the slower clocked system is not equal to higher clocked system. Everything is temperature related(as well as the voltage), but tempeature is the main picture. The amount of heat load it will give off from the hot side of the peltier is what I am concerned for you. 2.8ghz is just an estimate, you could even go higher since you're feeding such cold liquid temperature but at the same time, it's giving off even more heat out of the hot side. Even though you have the mad dog monster chiller, it helps some but it is likely it will have some struggling soon or later unless you have some 40~ 50 gallons of liquid. I have 40 gallons of liquid running in the freezer btw and it is awesome in handling temperature. Freakin unbeatable. But also what did I say at the end.. I say you should try it anyway for the fun/heck of it. I want to see you getting better clock result and I know you will. I also wanted you to see and realize how much heat it will give off and affect your waterchiller. If you don't like it later, you could always go back to the plain waterchilled. Do not underestimate the power of heat the peltiers give you. :)


guys, also keep in mind that he is wanting to run the system overclocked higher and to run it at 24/7 folding. We are not talking about short term clocks/benching here.

[Keeper]

I am digesting all the info you folks have given me, and what I want to hear is not what I am hearing, but I figured I wouldn’t hear what I wanted anyway. But I sure appreciate the feedback.

I am going to give it a shot……………I suspect I will pull it off in the future and put it on my KX7, but after reading the replies, I want to see just how much I can get out of this 1700+.

Hanging out here has really improved my hardware skills; last year I was adding fans to get an extra 50MHz, now I am member of the 1gig+ overclock club. You folks have created a monster………it’s all your fault, and no; my wife doesn’t buy that excuse either.

[TheDude]

Go for it man! It wouldn't be the first time someone proved me wrong..lol :D

[zippyc]

Thanks for the reply Mickey!

And Keeper, good luck with that 1700. I think it is worth a shot.

I have also gone insane so I will probably end up in a padded cell next to you....

For instance I bought three massive copper waterblocks that I am using to sandwitch 1000w+ of pelts between to create a cold loop to cool CPU, GPU, and Northy. Should keep it all darn near 0c.

I could do it with 300w, but that would not give me the 3x load to handle the addition a 226w pelt on the cpu and an 80 or 130 on the gpu.

So the northy should get cool water and the GPU and CPU will be pelted with cold water on the hot sides of the pelt for sub-freezing temps.

I just introduced my wife to folding...she is running her old Dell 800 PIII side by side with my XP2400 and Kt3 ultra I gave her and (she built it into her first system, picked a good little Lanboy case, I'm so proud...).

Now she really feels the need for speed with me...heh heh. Might make the "Honey I'd like to buy that new processor" an easier discussion because I have three socket A boards now and the processors will all rotate when I get a faster chip, so everyone in the family wins (including the dog.)

[ellsworth]

a good way to put a load on your chiller is run the water from the chiller and through a heatercore or a radiator with a very very slow spinning fan. it should cool off your room to some as a side effect, but this would be testing the chiller for "the 100 year storm" load amount. put 1 or 2 80mm fans on the rad max. i did this with my chiller and it overpowered it and brought the temps up to 4c below ambient with 216cfm and cooled off my kitchen :D.