2nd pump to the same loop ...got worse [SOLVED]

[nick2crete]

Hi all..,
Before 2 weeks i bought the Armor Lcs ...i knew before what people said about TT ...
Anyways...started up...all was fine..then thought to add a 2nd rad ...like this (http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Liguid/Upgrade/cl-w0021/cl-w0021.asp) ...i did it ..went a little better...

Then i read some topics about 2 rads in the loop ...and thinking let buy a 2nd pump (bought the Laing DDC-1T ) and a better block...dont to worry for the plexy TT block anymore..

Did it...took the D-Tec Fuzion as well..
but...temps are raised a lot..before i had 29-30 idle core temps ..and now ..they go to 44 idle too...with room temp to 19C..

What is wrong folks..? the 2nd pump is worthless or what..?

[Meatpuppet]

Temperature comparisons are really hard to do with no knowledge of what kind of overclock you have going there. That being said, 40C is huge for an idle temp with a fuzion so I would guess there is some sort of fundamental problem with the loop. If you could take a picture directly of the mobo area that would be great. Aside from that, what is the deal with the different sized tubing? Are you going 1/2" to 3?8" or going 3?8" to smaller. The laing pumps do not much like tubing less than 3/8" according to the Swifty instalation manual.

[Sparky]

You still have the old pump hooked up? It might be getting in the way of the new one.

[Meatpuppet]

You still have the old pump hooked up? It might be getting in the way of the new one.

Yeah I didn't think of that. Make sure the pumps have similar flow/max head characteristics or like Sparky said your pumps may be interfearing with one another.

[nick2crete]

Thanks man ...better photos follow..

[WoZZeR999]

Are both pumps the same spec pumps? If you have 2 different pumps then they could in fact be hurting performance. Is the temp difference with the new pump AND the fuzion, or just the new pump?

[nick2crete]

Thanks guys..give some help please..

[nick2crete]

Are both pumps the same spec pumps? If you have 2 different pumps then they could in fact be hurting performance. Is the temp difference with the new pump AND the fuzion, or just the new pump?

Yes ..they are both pumps together with the fuzion..
Both pumps they lift round 500 LPH...

[nick2crete]

Temperature comparisons are really hard to do with no knowledge of what kind of overclock you have going there. That being said, 40C is huge for an idle temp with a fuzion so I would guess there is some sort of fundamental problem with the loop. If you could take a picture directly of the mobo area that would be great. Aside from that, what is the deal with the different sized tubing? Are you going 1/2" to 3?8" or going 3?8" to smaller. The laing pumps do not much like tubing less than 3/8" according to the Swifty instalation manual.


The block has 1/2" fittings...and the rest 3/8"...so i puted the connectores..

[nick2crete]

1 more..

[aspire.comptech]

The thermaltake pump is most likely the culprit.

Aside from that, what radiator does the case come with? It may not be able to properly dissipate the amount of heat coming off the quad core.

Also, I would highly advise you do get some kind of clamps for all your connections. I would hate to see a hose pop off one of the barbs...

[nick2crete]

The thermaltake pump is most likely the culprit.

Aside from that, what radiator does the case come with? It may not be able to properly dissipate the amount of heat coming off the quad core.

No ..before the upgrade was only the TT staff (Armor Lcs ) (http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/armor_lcs/ve2000swa.asp)...did good..just thought make it better and safer with the 2 pumps & the Fuzion....not till now..

[aspire.comptech]

Try taking the original thermaltake pump out, and for the love of all that is safe, add clamps to your connections!

[TopherTony]

before you added the 2nd pump, was all the tubing the same size? with those hose adapters, it looks like you are going from 3/8" to 1/2" tubing, is that right? did your old setup use only one size tubing? what was the complete setup of the old system that you were getting better temps with?

also, just because two pumps move the same gph, doesn't mean they have the same specs, and thus not compatible. to ensure this they should be the EXACT same pump. mixing swiftech and thermaltake definitely is not smart IMHO. unless I missed something.

[nick2crete]

Try taking the original thermaltake pump out, and for the love of all that is safe, add clamps to your connections!

Thanks..i know...wednesday evening shops closed here..i ll take those asap..


before you added the 2nd pump, was all the tubing the same size? with those hose adapters, it looks like you are going from 3/8" to 1/2" tubing, is that right? did your old setup use only one size tubing? what was the complete setup of the old system that you were getting better temps with?

also, just because two pumps move the same gph, doesn't mean they have the same specs, and thus not compatible. to ensure this they should be the EXACT same pump. mixing swiftech and thermaltake definitely is not smart IMHO. unless I missed something.

Before the add was only 3/8" & TT staff..with the new block 1/2" i should make it like this..
Ok..i see the point now...tomorrow i will take out the new pump and try set this up again with only 3/8"...
What else can i do..?just pity..

[n00b 0f l337]

On another note isn't the center of the Fuzion the input?

[aspire.comptech]

On another note isn't the center of the Fuzion the input?

Yeah... and its hooked up to the output from the pump...

[nick2crete]

On another note isn't the center of the Fuzion the input?


Yeah... and its hooked up to the output from the pump...

Yes as you know better than me the center is the input..i think that connection is right...or ? anyways in 1 loop normally that would not be the problem..
I think the mix of the pumps isnt as i expected...

[n00b 0f l337]

O haaha looks definitly like from first first input to a D5. My bad!
Might try remounting a few times to be sure.

[nick2crete]

What you mean..?

[Meatpuppet]

I have just a couple of comments. First as was mentioned earlier, if you were getting better temps with the same overclock before adding the pumps then the radiator is certainly not the culprit (assuming the fans have not stopped spinning). Secondly, the fuzion has removable barbs and I know D-tek makes 3/8" barbs for smaller tubing systems. I can't imagine that this is the culprit but it will at least clean things up a bit and eliminate those reducers. Lastly, the laing pump you got should be able to handle that loop on its lonesome even though I think that you mentioned that it was the weaker of the DDC pumps. As such I would try any/all of the following to troubleshoot the problem:

1. Make sure that the inlet/outlet on the DDC are set up correctly, if the second pump is pushing into the outlet of the DDC then there you go.

2. Re-mount the Fuzion block with some fresh TIM to see if it was just a bad mount.

3. Remove the thermaltake pump from the loop.

My suggestions are ordered from least destructive (just looking at the DDC) to most destructive (draining and rearranging the loop). Best of luck to you. Finally, if you already have the DDC pump you ma want to look into an aftermarket top; head over to http://www.petrastechshop.com/peddcudeddcp.html and give them a look for an example.

[nick2crete]

I have just a couple of comments. First as was mentioned earlier, if you were getting better temps with the same overclock before adding the pumps then the radiator is certainly not the culprit (assuming the fans have not stopped spinning). Secondly, the fuzion has removable barbs and I know D-tek makes 3/8" barbs for smaller tubing systems. I can't imagine that this is the culprit but it will at least clean things up a bit and eliminate those reducers. Lastly, the laing pump you got should be able to handle that loop on its lonesome even though I think that you mentioned that it was the weaker of the DDC pumps. As such I would try any/all of the following to troubleshoot the problem:

1. Make sure that the inlet/outlet on the DDC are set up correctly, if the second pump is pushing into the outlet of the DDC then there you go.

2. Re-mount the Fuzion block with some fresh TIM to see if it was just a bad mount.

3. Remove the thermaltake pump from the loop.

My suggestions are ordered from least destructive (just looking at the DDC) to most destructive (draining and rearranging the loop). Best of luck to you. Finally, if you already have the DDC pump you ma want to look into an aftermarket top; head over to http://www.petrastechshop.com/peddcudeddcp.html and give them a look for an example.

Thanks a lot for your help..:)

1. is ok..
2. & 3. i will try asap..

[nick2crete]

I touch the tubes...water is warm...loop dont work good..
Tomorrow i will take out the new pump and will add these (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-005-EK&groupid=701&catid=193&subcat=1049) and those (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-003-XS&groupid=701&catid=193&subcat=1048) ..(already ordered..) ..start over..expect to have it as before and better with the fuzion..

[Pedalmonkey]

could be air in the Fuzion, and or air anywhere in the loop. Make sure its bled completely. but i guess if the water in the tubing is warm, it could be the rad fans aren't spinning anymore and or the combo of aluminum and copper in the loop has corroded in some way. also block or something may be blocked by gunk from the cooling fluid? maybe pull the fuzion apart??

[nick2crete]

Combo alu with cooper worked before very good with TT block as well...so thats not the issue..using TT coolant dont think that in 2 weeks got corrosion..
I think that the 1/2" to 3/8' maybe has to do...or the 2 pumps together its not good mix...
Well for the tubes i dont care...but since i paid for 2 pumps and rads , would like have them all running..if possible..


Should i put again the TT block you mean..?..

[Pedalmonkey]

no just pull the fuzion apart and make sure theirs nothing blocking the flow thru the block and or any of the other parts.

[Cronos]

The only possible explanation, provided than nothing else has changed, is that pumps have opposite flow direction.

Check the water flow. Compare the temps between radiator inlet and outlet, the difference should be negligible, if it's not, you have very low flow. But for such a huge jump in temps, you must have your flow nearly zero.

[nick2crete]

...it could be the rad fans aren't spinning anymore..


You saved my night...:) that was it...all rads fans didnt run..:mad: ..open the other side of the case...reconnect and..:up: ...didnt do nothing wrong before though..just some connections work and other not..:(

I want to thank all of you...it was so kind to have this support near...also my wife looked:shakes: and she made the photos..
Now it runs at 30-27-26-26 core temp..:clap:

[Jedda]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :up:

[Meatpuppet]

I have just a couple of comments. First as was mentioned earlier, if you were getting better temps with the same overclock before adding the pumps then the radiator is certainly not the culprit (assuming the fans have not stopped spinning)...

Heh, good to hear everything went well. Althouh the easily solved problems make you feel stupid, they are a hell of a lot cheaper to fix. Now all you need are some hose clamps.

[Jedda]

Heh, good to hear everything went well. Althouh the easily solved problems make you feel stupid, they are a hell of a lot cheaper to fix. Now all you need are some hose clamps.

Yeah, and maybe to stop mis-matching pumps before it results in both of them getting tired and worn.
The DDC3.1 should be OK by its self.

[Waterlogged]

Yeah, and maybe to stop mis-matching pumps before it results in both of them getting tired and worn.
The DDC3.1 should be OK by its self.



Well, we all know the Tt will be the first to give up the ghost so, no real loss there.

[dinos22]

lol very very silly not checking those fans :p:

bet you feel relieved that it's all sorted heh

[nick2crete]

Was silly indeed .. :confused: ...i was confused and focus to the pumps..:rolleyes:

Anyways :p: loop runs fine..block was very tight mounted..couple turns loss and is better.. 27-26-25-25C coretemps idle..in a 20C ambient..;)
So i think has worth it...feel safer with the no-plexy block plus the 2nd pump & hose clamps..
Thanks all again

[Sparky]

D'oh I didn't even think of rad fans... totally assumed they were running :hitself:

[nick2crete]

..me too man..:hammer::down: