View Full Version : Corrosion?
Here's the stock cover for my APOGEE GTX. Had the block for about 4 months and I was on vacation for the last a month and a half. I noticed the temp getting worse and worse lately and there didn't seem to be much flow through the system as it did. I pulled everything apart for a flush and this is what I found.
Sparky
02-10-2008, 08:29 PM
Doesn't look like corrosion. Wrong color. Looks like you had some stuff in your loop. Did you use distilled water, biocide of some sort? What all did you have in it?
Was running distilled water, with a green dye/biocide. It's definately metallic when I cleaned up rest of the build up on the copper fins inside base where rest of this stuff collected on. Also had some metallic dusts inside the res.
I didn't take a picture but that stuff was blocking a large portion of the fins and also formed into the crevasses.
Yowzers! Have you e-mailed Swiftech and complained ?
I dunno how the green dye turns yellow. Metalic particles inside your reservoir ?!?
The yellow-ness seems to be coming from the dye. After I cleaned it off a bit, the water color running off it was green even though the stuff is yellow. Here is a better shot. I am not sure if possible to see, but theres some gouge like indentations in the aluminum surface now.
NaeKuh
02-10-2008, 08:59 PM
time to get one of these:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0867.jpg
:\
try brushing the top, see if it looks kinda like this still: the plate under should look like this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0583.jpg
Yowzers! Have you e-mailed Swiftech and complained ?
I dunno how the green dye turns yellow. Metalic particles inside your reservoir ?!?
Honestly I am not too surprised by this and no I didn't bother to send a complain.
I was refilling some distilled water and noticed some flakes in the res, that's what prompted me to take the loop apart and open up the block.
time to get one of these:
:\
try brushing the top, see if it looks kinda like this still: the plate under should look like this:
Yea, I have the copper top on order now, but gonna be a couple days before I can turn my main system back on ;\
Nate P.
02-10-2008, 09:01 PM
I would give Swiftech an email and tell them.
Matt C.
02-10-2008, 09:08 PM
clean all that yellow junk off..and see how the surface of the metal looks. if its pitted then its def. corroded. otherwise it could be some type of bacteria.
clean all that yellow junk off..and see how the surface of the metal looks. if its pitted then its def. corroded. otherwise it could be some type of bacteria.
Yup, it's pitted pretty badly ;\
Sparky
02-10-2008, 09:36 PM
OK so I was wrong.
Green dye does turn yellow when dry I noticed.
NaeKuh
02-10-2008, 09:45 PM
Yup, it's pitted pretty badly ;\
yeah... thats pretty bad... after the first incident i switched over... the old top was still good as new tho...
but now after seeing this, im very glad i did...
Sparky
02-10-2008, 09:46 PM
suggestion for swiftech - ditch the alu top and just sell the copper one only, or make a delrin top to keep the black/silver look.
SNiiPE_DoGG
02-10-2008, 09:48 PM
can we see a picture of the copper base plz?
can we see a picture of the copper base plz?
I don't have it just yet, but I am sure if you do a search here with google you will find plenty of pictures.
Xilikon
02-11-2008, 05:24 AM
LOL and Swiftech always claim it would never happen with proper fluid... This is clearly another evidence why it is a bad idea to mix copper and aluminium no matter how good is the plating.
It would be very easy to make a delrin top, screw the looks. If someone care about looks, just buy the copper top !
EDIT : Actually, did you use any kind of anticorrosion fluid in the loop ? If you, Swiftech won't honor the warranty anyway.
C'DaleRider
02-11-2008, 05:46 AM
Sorry, but that stuff looks so fluffy and raised (you can easily see it is raised above the level of the block...esp. at the barb fitting.....and you can see some fluffy threads on it, too), it's not aluminum corrosion.
Instead it looks like some sort of growth that attacked the aluminum......but don't blame it on Swiftech.....blame it instead on your lack of cleanliness when you assembled your loop. Could have easily been something in your dye.....wouldn't have been the first time dye is not made under very clean (read bacteria-free) conditions.
While it may be true that you have pitting under that growth, it is also true that many bacteria/algae strains will attack metal....so really, the pitting in your block is secondary to the growth, which means if you hadn't had the growth of whatever that junk is, you wouldn't have had the attack on the metal.
Here's a pic of my GTX block after 6-7 months of almost constant use......just opened it up for the first time last week. Odd that it looks absolutely like new...no growth, no corrosion......but I didn't manage to get all of the dye off with the toothbrush when I assembled it last year, my bad. ;)
Honestly, if the GTX corroded so quickly and badly, why isn't mine? I just ran it with distilled water and PT Nuke, after all.
https://bobscapecodfudge.sslpowered.com/bobscapecodfudge.com/pics/gtx2.jpg
What sort of toothbrush did you use? lol Mine never got so well cleaned, and maybe its because I never bothered lol
FuriousSalesman
02-11-2008, 08:45 AM
Sorry, but that stuff looks so fluffy and raised (you can easily see it is raised above the level of the block...esp. at the barb fitting.....and you can see some fluffy threads on it, too), it's not aluminum corrosion.
Instead it looks like some sort of growth that attacked the aluminum......but don't blame it on Swiftech.....blame it instead on your lack of cleanliness when you assembled your loop. Could have easily been something in your dye.....wouldn't have been the first time dye is not made under very clean (read bacteria-free) conditions.
While it may be true that you have pitting under that growth, it is also true that many bacteria/algae strains will attack metal....so really, the pitting in your block is secondary to the growth, which means if you hadn't had the growth of whatever that junk is, you wouldn't have had the attack on the metal.
Here's a pic of my GTX block after 6-7 months of almost constant use......just opened it up for the first time last week. Odd that it looks absolutely like new...no growth, no corrosion......but I didn't manage to get all of the dye off with the toothbrush when I assembled it last year, my bad. ;)
Honestly, if the GTX corroded so quickly and badly, why isn't mine? I just ran it with distilled water and PT Nuke, after all.
Did he blame Swiftech?
voigts
02-11-2008, 08:49 AM
Sorry, but that stuff looks so fluffy and raised (you can easily see it is raised above the level of the block...esp. at the barb fitting.....and you can see some fluffy threads on it, too), it's not aluminum corrosion.
Instead it looks like some sort of growth that attacked the aluminum......but don't blame it on Swiftech.....blame it instead on your lack of cleanliness when you assembled your loop. Could have easily been something in your dye.....wouldn't have been the first time dye is not made under very clean (read bacteria-free) conditions.
While it may be true that you have pitting under that growth, it is also true that many bacteria/algae strains will attack metal....so really, the pitting in your block is secondary to the growth, which means if you hadn't had the growth of whatever that junk is, you wouldn't have had the attack on the metal.
Here's a pic of my GTX block after 6-7 months of almost constant use......just opened it up for the first time last week. Odd that it looks absolutely like new...no growth, no corrosion......but I didn't manage to get all of the dye off with the toothbrush when I assembled it last year, my bad. ;)
Honestly, if the GTX corroded so quickly and badly, why isn't mine? I just ran it with distilled water and PT Nuke, after all.
Just because in your case your block looks fine, that in no way means that this holds true for the rest of the known world. I doubt he is making this up given the very clear pics, so for some reason, his top is messed up, which I have never seen happen to a copper or delrin top regardless. Does it really matter if it is because of bacteria, or the dye, or whatever? Its not like he added battery acid to his loop. If the Swiftech top can't handle dye, then the top should be changed.
NysoO
02-11-2008, 09:26 AM
Sadly, without a copper top, these blocks are a joke. I bought mine from Petras for like 8 months ago. After having the block assembled in the loop for like 3 or four months, my MB died so I took it as an oppertunity to clean out the loop, as my tubing had gained some kind of green - white substance on the inner walls (3603).
The top was corroded as hell, and there was a lot of particles in the block and loop. The "Water line" in the res could be clearly seen because of the particles and stuff, so the res was actually kind hard to clean.
The solution to all these problems is this:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/nouser/img644d046bd4041.jpg?59116
And nowadays with distilled water, PT_nuke and some glycol, the water is still clear as glass.
This is probably the most controversial water block ever released lol
NysoO
02-11-2008, 09:37 AM
Yeah probably :D, Well, the block was almost doomed to get these kind of problems. Poorly protected aluminium is never good in a loop.
NaeKuh
02-11-2008, 09:40 AM
This is probably the most controversial water block ever released lol
lol.... the stealth series waterblock should be up next since it uses a alu top as well. ahahahaha..
The thing is that nobody opens up a Stealth block. Open it and you may never seal it up properly.
Xilikon
02-11-2008, 09:56 AM
It's controversial just because Swiftech is pinching pennies at the detriment of quality.
As i said, a molded/milled delrin top would save lots of headaches and generate more sales.
Do you really think its cheaper to machine aluminum than manufacturing molded delrin ? The GTX block apparently has been selling better than hot cakes.
Xilikon
02-11-2008, 12:59 PM
Being the best seller doesn't excuse the poor design choice. Molded delrin might be more expensive initially due to setup costs but after this, it's much faster and cost less to manufacture. Look at D-Tek Fuzion ;)
Also, reliability and performance shouldn't take the back seat for more bling.
Sparky
02-11-2008, 01:05 PM
This is probably the most controversial water block ever released lol
haha how true
SNiiPE_DoGG
02-11-2008, 01:55 PM
I don't have it just yet, but I am sure if you do a search here with google you will find plenty of pictures.
well the point of that was to see what all that yellow crap did to the copper and if it is still usable, but nvm, no hurry
Here is a shot of the base after I cleaned it up. Seems still usable at this point.
spider_d
02-11-2008, 04:12 PM
how does the copper part look? using what for coolant ? almost looks like barnacles
Y'ar Captain, she be barnacles! But seriously, look at that base! Wow.
RickCain
02-11-2008, 05:50 PM
This is probably the most controversial water block ever released lol
ALu = controverial and is not brand specific unfortunately.
911us
02-11-2008, 06:28 PM
CU + AL = no good if you don't use "coolant",that 's why I go for D-tek Fuzion.
NaeKuh
02-11-2008, 08:55 PM
It's controversial just because Swiftech is pinching pennies at the detriment of quality.
As i said, a molded/milled delrin top would save lots of headaches and generate more sales.
xilikon... you dont know half the arguement....
:T
But it came out to something like this... gabed asked who on earth would buy a GTX priced @ 90-100 dollars instead of getting an ApogeeGT for 50 dollars and it only performs off by a few C.
And people that said it should be derlin... Ummm thats called an apogeeGT.
Anyhow i dont disagree with gabe's choice if i had to think of it financially. And you need to think of it from a financial standpoint as well because swiftech is a business, there not charity.
Sparky
02-11-2008, 09:17 PM
And people that said it should be derlin... Ummm thats called an apogeeGT.
Not quite, the flow pattern of the GTX is different than the GT which is what gives it more performance ;) Top material doesn't affect the performance that much at all.
NaeKuh
02-11-2008, 09:37 PM
Not quite, the flow pattern of the GTX is different than the GT which is what gives it more performance ;) Top material doesn't affect the performance that much at all.
blah sparky u were in that thread discussion. :T You play the flashback.
Xilikon
02-12-2008, 05:19 AM
xilikon... you dont know half the arguement....
:T
But it came out to something like this... gabed asked who on earth would buy a GTX priced @ 90-100 dollars instead of getting an ApogeeGT for 50 dollars and it only performs off by a few C.
And people that said it should be derlin... Ummm thats called an apogeeGT.
Anyhow i dont disagree with gabe's choice if i had to think of it financially. And you need to think of it from a financial standpoint as well because swiftech is a business, there not charity.
I wasn't part of this thread but my point still stand. Delrin isn't that expensive compared to aluminium and the extra expense was just because there are unnecessary extra machining done for bling. A flat square delrin would be still great without the inconveniences of aluminium. Honestly, If I had the opportunity to chime my opinion when the GTX is in the design phase and others agree, the story might be different.
Just look at the Fuzion or the EK Supreme. They perform great and it cost the same as a Apogee GTX so Gabe still fail at making a cost-efficient high performance block just because he wanted to add a pretty top...
EDIT : Searched for the thread and I found the one made by nikhsub1 and I read 3/4 of it and I saw that Gabe picked it because he like it. I see that making it with another material would cost more but no word about using delrin or lucite as the top. Basically, the top is made because he liked the looks (made a reference to the Endelbrock head). That's just silly...
disruptfam
02-12-2008, 06:48 AM
Y'ar Captain, she be barnacles! But seriously, look at that base! Wow.
:rofl: