Skulltrail Overclocking

[Charles Wirth]

FUGGER and K|ngp|n in Las Vegas

http://fugger.netfirms.com/5586.jpg

Intel D5400XS Skulltrail motherboard
Dual Intel QX9775 quad core processors
Cooled by: Dragon F1 Extreme
EVGA 8800 Ultra SLI
Cooled by: Tek 9
Enermax Galaxy
Mushkin 2GB FB-Dimm
Mushkin 1GB FB-Dimm
Micron 2GB FB-Dimm

http://fugger.netfirms.com/skulltrail.jpg

Installing

The board is EATX standard and there is very little room for clearance around the edges on most of the largest cases, this is a Gigabyte Aurora and I have less than a quarter inch clearance.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/eatx.jpg
On the pic above you can see the sealing on the board to prevent moisture damage.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/eatx2.jpg

The CPU sockets have small sinks on the mosfets that do not clear some after market cooling products including the Zalman heat sinks that Intel sent out to reviewers.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/clearance.jpg


I had to notch both plastic mounting brackets to get an unobstructed seat on the CPU. I also had to rotate the bracket from its natural position that allowed the lever to swing open and free the CPU, right now I have to remove the bracket to open the lever.

I also installed a pair of Danger Den blocks where I had clearance issues on both sockets. I had to hack saw the edges of both blocks and die grind the edge of the face of one of the blocks that hit against some caps that are too close and too high to the socket.


http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/notched.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/notched2.jpg

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/clearance2.jpg

The socket itself is for XEON with 771 pins but the mounting Intel chose to use was for Socket 775 to better suite after market options in cooling so be aware that some intervention may be needed for best fit.

I found out that ICH9R RAID worked on Skulltrail, all I needed to do was load the new INF drivers and all is up to speed.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/hdvista.jpg
This is 4x 150GB Raptors in RAID 0, onboard controller.

Loading windows Vista with RAID is fine.

Memory configurations

Sequential
Single channel
Dual channel
Dual channel interleave
Quad channel interleave

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/channels.jpg

All settable via bios if the memory is installed in the correct slot, if you install memory in channel A it will be set to dual channel interleave. If you space the ram one slot you will reboot to single channel with interleave. If you install all four slots you get quad channel with interleave.

For most of the tests dual channel with interleave will perform adequately but for the most demanding overclocked stress on cores you will want quad channel with interleave.

Memory voltage in bios, you can set voltages for memory and for the AMB(buffer) chip. Raising the AMB voltage yielded no gain in timing or speed.

We tested various modules for bus speed and timing options and here is what we came up with.

800Mhz Mushkin 1GB
800Mhz Mushkin 2GB Rev E
800Mhz Micron 2GB Rev F
667Mhz Micron 1GB

With the 1GB modules it allowed us to open the FSB to 430Mhz pretty easy and we ran some 3D benches with 425~427Mhz bus speed. None of the 2GB modules would allow us beyond 406Mhz.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/cas4.jpg

The Mushkin 2GB modules would allow timing change of cas 4 if they were installed in channel A, I then could install the Micron in channel B and they would run at cas 4. If I install the Micron Ref F it will not post at cas 4, just in channel B.

All memory could run at 5-4-4-15 timing and that is what was used for the 1GB modules at 425FSB. We ran those two modules in channel A in interleave mode, that equates to dual channel with interleave.

The memory does get very hot and needs extra cooling for overclocking.

The north bridge has notches for a fan to be mounted and it runs very hot, hopefully a fan will be supplied with retail versions and even then I would still suggest more cooling here.

Overclocking

On (pro) air with the supplied heat sinks I reached a top speed of 4.4Ghz for multicore benches.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=4982582

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/water.jpg

Stepping up to water cooling pushing past 4.5Ghz is pretty easy and I think I will end up around 4.4Ghz @ 1.45v and keep the fans on low. Im getting used to the silence. I will have several more pushes on water over the next few weeks.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/f1.jpg

Under LN2 we reached 5.6Ghz and settled in around 5.55Ghz for the threaded benches. Bios allows 1.6v with .3 offset for a total of 1.9vcore but the droop at 5.55Ghz is around .05v with a swing of +- .04v. There is a droop option in bios as well.

The cores bugged out around -117c and trip the thermal code for shutdown and refiring was pretty good, no bugs were present when booting into windows at -110c.

We did have a problem when raising the pcie frequency, the max frequency settable in bios is 120Mhz.

Other than the lack of vcore the board ran perfect, minimal performance hit with dual channel vs quad channel, we got more out of FSB to hit the perfect Mhz.

Running SLI


The Intel Skulltrail motherboard cannot support 3-way SLI. Skulltrail motherboards use two NVIDIA nForce 100 chips as you correctly state below. These chips allow for a maximum of two GeForce cards to work together, enabling SLI between two GeForce GPUs such as the GeForce 8800 Ultra.

The nForce 100 chips also enable Quad SLI, but only with two GeForce GX2 cards. That is the only method of Quad SLI right now – a card that has two chips on it paired with another dual-chip card.

There is no Quad SLI with four individual discrete cards – that product does not exist. If you put four Ultras onto Skulltrail, you can only connect two of them (must be connected to the same nF100 chip), and can only enable SLI with one set of cards. You could use the other cards to drive extra monitors, but not overall performance.

The nForce 100 SLI MCP will NOT support 3-way SLI. This cannot change even with a driver/bios update.

- Nvidia

Cooling the north bridge notes.

When pushing MCH voltage there are a few bugs that arise and some people may have run into without knowing what was going on. 1.4 ~ 1.6 without a really good fan will cause an error in memory bandwidth tests, the first sign is Everest locking up seconds after opening the program. I also noticed BF2 shutting down between map changes with a memory error. I switched over to watercooling on the north bridge and lowered the voltage, everything is running correctly. Ive been running a high FSB and pushing MCH was getting me there but needed a bit more when you apply more than .2v over stock pm the alu heat sink.

http://fugger.netfirms.com/D5400XS/4.JPG


Results

Skulltrail at the top of the ORB
http://www.futuremark.com/community/halloffame

wPrime 32m and 1024m
http://www.hwbot.org

New WR Cinebench 10 x64
http://fugger.netfirms.com/40k.jpg

Thanks to Intel, EVGA, Nvidia, Mushkin, and Enermax for your support.

Many thanks to K|ngp|n for flying in from Detroit to blast a 160L tank of LN2 and bringing the custom pots and talent to make this possible.

[fepple]

Nice one Fugger and K|ngp|n :clap: :toast:

[Harshal]

Congrats on 5.5G run. You guys had amazing fun I am sure :D
Thanks for sharing the info also :)

[KTE]

Thanks for feedback, testing, explanation and details guys. :toast:

What was your stock VID and VCore on the QXs?

Could you monitor CPU temps inside Windows with any software? What did it idle/load approximately at air 4.4G?

Is the chipset fan really awfully loud?

How'd the Enermax beast hold up full 5.5G load? :D

Is the retail 9775 going to be C0 too?

[Dualist]

Very nice overview of the system Fugger, especially about the memory. :up: FB-Dimms have always been flaky buggers. :)

[scottc19]

Any chance we might get to see 3dmark with this?
EDIT: nevermind I missed it in the thread -sorry-

[mXpS]

When are we going to see the QX9775 scores?

[cadaveca]

So...because it only supports 2-card SLi, can you do both Crossfire and SLi at the same time, choosing which set of cards renders which app, so users can get the most out of each app?

[Charles Wirth]

Hmm running CF with SLI, If I had the CF cards I would give it a try.

Scores are posted on futuremark 2k6 and hwbot wprime 32m and 1024m.

The system is silent now, 4.4Ghz stable on water, the fan is silent and moves decent air. I also have a Sunon that is hanging off the other processor over the ram.

[Movieman]

Great thread Charles!:up:

[jabski]

very interesting stuff. Thanks fugger :)

[[XC] riptide]

Excellent. Good read.

[Kunaak]

can you run some bandwidth shots of dual and quad channel interleave?

I am curious to see how it effects 3dmark2001se lobby, and 3dmar2003 airplane tests.
everest would be nice too.

[STEvil]

dragothic low responds better to memory bandwidth doesnt it?

bumping memory voltage didnt help the 2gb sticks at all? Did you try cooling the memory below 0c? On i5000x I was able to hit 428mhz with 4x1GB 667mhz FB-DIMM's with dry ice on them and the chipset.

[The0men]

Cooling that northbridge with any standard form of cooling might be a bit of a pain.

Wicked awsome scores though. Two quads at 5.5ghz. Imagine the crunching capability.

[s0lid]

Holy crap sub 4s in wprime 32M :shocked:

[Oliver]

Looking good indeed...

Keep pushing it.

[Omastar]

I was really hoping that the newer rev FB-DIMMs would run cooler, but apparently not...

[Movieman]

I was really hoping that the newer rev FB-DIMMs would run cooler, but apparently not...

All you need to do is put a decent fan on them.
I have a clover with FBDimms thats run at 100% load for a year+ with the memory OC'd from 333 to 351.
Just a simple little Zalman bracket and 92mm fan for $9.00 from newegg handles the temps fine.
Next topic?:D

[bakalu]

Benchmark Skulltrail.

- Mainboard Intel® Desktop Board D5400XS chipset D5400XS, Bios 0821, Intel Chipset Software 8.5.0.1009

- CPU 2x Core 2 Extreme QX9775 3.2GHz @ 4GHz Socket 771 12MB L2

- RAM FB-DIMM 2 x 2GB

- 2 x Zotac 8800 GTX, driver 169.28 & 171.16.

- Vista Ultimate 64 bit.

I can't benchmark and play Crysis 64 bit, my system crash, so I only benchmark Crysis 32 bit.

Benchmark Crysis 32bit with 2 CPU (8 core)
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1342/skullesttharbourgp6.jpg

Benchmark Crysis 32bit with 1 CPU (4 core)
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9564/skullesttharbour1cpuct3.jpg

Crysis doesn't support Dual CPU Quad Core.

Skulltrail with Driver 171.16, 8800GTX SLI @ 630/1055

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/108/ocvgaskullslinoaaza2.jpg

Skulltrail with Driver 169.28, Single 8800GTX Default. Benchmark Crysis 32 bit

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3231/1gtx32bitupchipset5400xj3.jpg

Mainboard Gigabyte 965-DS3, Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.42GHz, Gigabyte 8800GT Turbo Force Default 700/1715/920, 4GB RAM. Benchmark Crysis 64 bit

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1805/crysis641xz3.jpg

[jadeskye]

You guys are Gods among men x_x

[Delex]

Hi,
did you tried a CrossFire on this platform? I did only 22k on 3dmark06 with a pair of 2900XT@940/980 an CPUs @ 4.25 GHz :mad:

[Charles Wirth]

I dont have Crossfire cards, Quadfire would be interesting.

~ 24k with ultras stock, 4.25Ghz in 06

~ 23K with 8800GTS stock

I added more info, the addition of too much MCH voltage will cause errors if not cooled enough. Everest was bugging me why it locked up.

[Movieman]

At what speed do you think your system would run 24/7 under 100% load?
Yea, you know where I'm headed with this..:D

[Charles Wirth]

If I was to run @ 100% load 24/7, I would drop it to 400x10.

Im liking 420x10 now with MCH at 1.3v, no need to touch memory or AMD voltage as well. Im running near silent now and about to put the sides on again.

[Movieman]

If I was to run @ 100% load 24/7, I would drop it to 400x10.

Im liking 420x10 now with MCH at 1.3v, no need to touch memory or AMD voltage as well. Im running near silent now and about to put the sides on again.

I think you out to stick it on WCG for a week at 4000 and see what the beast will do!:D
The Clovers do app 26K a day, we have a Yorkie on water at 4150 that does 21,500 a day.
Maybe 35-37K from that beast..:up:

[Cupcake]

So, when is XS going to be hosted off a skulltrail system ;)

Anyway wonderful results and setup :)

[my87csx481]

Sooooo....did this thing ever get put on WCG?:D

Just curious.

Are the boards going to be available through regular consumer sources? (I read somewhere, possibly here, that production is limited to 2000 pcs)

[STEvil]

ncix has boards

[Buckeye]

Thanks for the heads up there.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=28798&vpn=BOXD5400XS&manufacture=Intel

But is a Skulltrail II coming out also ?

[atomman]

fugger,

two questions:

a. what mch waterblock are you using?
b. how are you running the extra 8pin cpu power - from Enermax's website it looks as though the 1000 only has one 8 pin cpu plug

thanks

[cadaveca]

psu has 2 plugs, 8-pin, one 4x4-pin.

[melanko]

I got to see this board and two QX9775's up close recently. Pretty awesome looking but pretty impractical for the price you have to pay to get them.

Let's add up the totals (according to Newegg):
(1,559.99 *2) for the CPU's + 659.99 for the mobo=
_______________________
$3779.97 USD - Shipping and taxes (if applicable).

That total alone equals my current computer budget times 6~. :ROTF:

[FuriousSalesman]

Is it possible to run a good skulltrail system with just 1 cpu?

[tom909]

planning to build a skulltrail system

intend to use 2 dual-core xeons, since dual cores are better to overclock than quad cores (if I ever need more cores then I will get a second such box)

intending to use two of the 3.4ghz x5272, 1600fsb

then, would like to up the bus speed from 400 to 450: 3.825ghz

then would like to up the multiplyer from 8.5 to 10 or 10.5: 450*10=4.5ghz, *10.5=4.725

or use the 3.33ghz x5260 1333fsb, also targeting 4.5 to 4.7ghz, with any combination of bus-upping and multiplyer-upping.

now I have heard that the skulltrail makes only a bus speed of max about 420. can that be true? I heared asus boards make easily 450. Is the quality of the intel board that much worse? hope its still possible to do 450. If not then I have to get an asus server board, and I think their bios does not support overclocking (fsb, multiplyer) of xeons as well as the skulltrail.

then, I am assuming the multiplyer of the xeons can be changed and are not locked, inferring that from the reference below.

this is using good air or water cooling

planning to do/join folding@home and running the machine 24/7 at the above settings, as well as doing my own simulations.
meaning, I will use the cheapest graphics card I can find, no sound, no monitor, ie no demand on graphics, or hard disk, and minimal demand on memory. I just need a big big calculator (also called computer)

if anyone done it before, I appreciate sharing experience

thanks


for ref

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/Intel_Skulltrail_and_Penryn_Performance_Preview/

http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4181-view-Intel-Skulltrail-platform-extreme-overclock.html

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33976/135/

http://techgage.com/article/building_an_affordable_skulltrail_system/6

[Extera]

Best way to go for you is a more simple board and a good quadcore.
Skulltrail has slower memoryt then most other boards, and especially DDR3 board.

Also 3D performance is lot slower, don't know about the folding @ home performance on the new GPU client, and I don't know if you are going to use it. But buying a skulltrail and putting 2 dualcores in it, is like giving a ferrari to my bad... still slow.

[tom909]

Best way to go for you is a more simple board and a good quadcore.
I dont think so.


Skulltrail has slower memoryt then most other boards, and especially DDR3 board.
Its not memory intensive task.


Also 3D performance is lot slower, don't know about the folding @ home performance on the new GPU client, and I don't know if you are going to use it.
To repeat, its not a graphic intensive task.


But buying a skulltrail and putting 2 dualcores in it, is like giving a ferrari to my bad... still slow.
Why?

[Extera]

Why do you want to buy a $500 motherboard, and run it with just 2 dual cores?
Why NOT a normal board with a single quad?

I mentioned 3Dpower because folding @ home has release a client for folding on GPU's. I also mentioned I didn't know if you where going to use it.

Your tasks are not going to be memory and graphic intensive,... so you need only CPU power? Now tell me, why would you run 2 dualcore cpu's on a skulltrail platform rather then a single quad on a board that is half the price or less.

Anyway, this is topic hijacking.....

[TheKarmakazi]

Hijacked I know, but I agree 100% with Extera, just get a QX9650 and save yourself a few grand. :p:

[tom909]

Why do you want to buy a $500 motherboard, and run it with just 2 dual cores?
Why NOT a normal board with a single quad?
since the quad does not overclock that well:
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=275170&highlight=e8500
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/intel_e8500/
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-3756-view-Core-2-Duo-E8500-overclocking.html
these are E8500 and the xeon X5272 is not much different, just tested for more, "robustness" in server (ie 24/7) environments.
the quads never reach this. obviously, if you pack 4 cores on one chip than spread out 2 cores onto 2 chips, using 2 air/water coolers. (the concept of "heatspreading")



I mentioned 3Dpower because folding @ home has release a client for folding on GPU's. I also mentioned I didn't know if you where going to use it.
I thought I said that.


Your tasks are not going to be memory and graphic intensive,... so you need only CPU power? Now tell me, why would you run 2 dualcore cpu's on a skulltrail platform rather then a single quad on a board that is half the price or less.
see above.
price: 650mobo + 2*1100proc + 250fbdimm = 3100
which is acceptable for me. compred to
300 + 1500 + 100 = 1900
its worth 1200 to me.

still, my questions are about the capabilities of skulltrail board, not to justify and argue with people about my reasons.

T

[Extera]

You want to spend 1200 dollar extra? Man.... My QX9650 runs fine @ 4,4ghz by the way, stable as a rock. On a tuniq tower 120.

The skulltrail's FSB is mostly limited by the ram I think. We managed to get the skull up to 430fsb stable, not much more then that.

Also, the xeons you want are not unlocked, if we had an unlocked wolfdale, we would have seen 6ghz al over the place.:D

For the 1200 dollar extra, you can buy yourself an very good single stage, and buy the electrical bill with the money you save. :p: With an good single stage you can run about 4,8 to 5Ghz, bepending on your luck.

[WesM63]

Skulltrail is limited to the FBDIMM's. Fugger and Kingpin have some VERY good ones. Mostly what you can buy won't do much over 400mhz. Maybe 405mhz for double sided sticks, 420-450mhz for single sided.

So with any Xeon cpu, the higest o/c you can get is max multi x 400-450mhz FSB. For example, my setup runs 2x e5430's (8x333), the max o/c i could get is 8x400-450. (3.2ghz - 3.6ghz).

QX9775's are nice because of the unlocked multi.

[DarthBeavis]

While I <3 Kingpin and Fugger in a non-ghey way . . .they really need to go to a 12-step LN2 program . . .admitting you have an addiction is the first step to recovery . . .

[Planet]

While I <3 Kingpin and Fugger in a non-ghey way . . .they really need to go to a 12-step LN2 program . . .admitting you have an addiction is the first step to recovery . . .

They will do that the day you admit you have a modding problem. :yepp:

[CometMan]

my god what a beast, this is really some impressive stuff

[smee]

Wow, great job Fugger and Kin|p|n!!!

Question though, what radiator(s) are you using to cool it?

[Movieman]

I'm trying guys..Not SkullTrail but Supermicro on air..
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/995/cpuz3510gq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Charles Wirth]

438 is a really good start.

Anything on memory timing?

[Movieman]

438 is a really good start.

Anything on memory timing?

2T-5-5-5-18-22

[atomman]

new skulltrail bios (1140) came out on the 21st

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductID=2864

[jcool]

Skulltrail is limited to the FBDIMM's. Fugger and Kingpin have some VERY good ones. Mostly what you can buy won't do much over 400mhz. Maybe 405mhz for double sided sticks, 420-450mhz for single sided.


Wes,

maybe it's got something to do with how well a mobo handles the ram. Me, I am running around with the cheapest 2GB FBDimms I could find. They are doublesided but my Z7S runs them through memtest at 450 no problem.
Same goes for a friend of mine who also has a Z7S with Kingston Values. He's even benching at FSB 460 with 4x2GB, using quadchannel. I can't boot above ~446 FSB but that's due to the CPU's limit (VTT not Vcore btw).

[Euler]

Movieman,

Which Supermicro mobos are you overclocking?

Also, I take it that's really an X5842 and not just a misread QX9775? If so, it's nice to see the non-Skulltrail chip OC'ing, even if it's just by 10&#37;.

The main reason I'm interested is that the Skulltrail mobo may not provide enough RAM slots for me, so using one of the Supermicro boards with tons of RAM plus OC-ability would be really nice! (Not to mention somewhat cheaper than having to go with QX9775's.)

[Gunslinger]

planning to build a skulltrail system

intend to use 2 dual-core xeons, since dual cores are better to overclock than quad cores (if I ever need more cores then I will get a second such box)

intending to use two of the 3.4ghz x5272, 1600fsb

then, would like to up the bus speed from 400 to 450: 3.825ghz

then would like to up the multiplyer from 8.5 to 10 or 10.5: 450*10=4.5ghz, *10.5=4.725

or use the 3.33ghz x5260 1333fsb, also targeting 4.5 to 4.7ghz, with any combination of bus-upping and multiplyer-upping.



How do you plan on doing this running CPU's with locked multipliers? :confused:

[Tutto]

What memory would you recommend I purchase. I currently using Mushkin 2x2gb and I can't get over 400fsb with a pair of x5460s.

http://www.dadepc.com/skulltrail.jpg

[Movieman]

Movieman,

Which Supermicro mobos are you overclocking?

Also, I take it that's really an X5842 and not just a misread QX9775? If so, it's nice to see the non-Skulltrail chip OC'ing, even if it's just by 10%.

The main reason I'm interested is that the Skulltrail mobo may not provide enough RAM slots for me, so using one of the Supermicro boards with tons of RAM plus OC-ability would be really nice! (Not to mention somewhat cheaper than having to go with QX9775's.)
Supermicro X7DWA-N:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5400/X7DWA-N.cfm
correct, retail X5482's not QX9775's
Transcend 4x2 gig DDR2-800FBDimms
All stock voltages on cpu and memory, not adjustable anyway on this board.
Max memory was 454, bluescreened at 455.
Rock solid for 24/7 100% load at 438( I loaded the machine for 48 hours at 8x438 and no issues.
Would pull a SP1M at 8x450(13.29s) and run Cinebench 10 at 3574mhz
All on crappy Intel factory HS with a 12" fan blowing into the case in a 70F room.

[RottenMutt]

Movieman,

Which Supermicro mobos are you overclocking?

Also, I take it that's really an X5842 and not just a misread QX9775? If so, it's nice to see the non-Skulltrail chip OC'ing, even if it's just by 10%.

The main reason I'm interested is that the Skulltrail mobo may not provide enough RAM slots for me, so using one of the Supermicro boards with tons of RAM plus OC-ability would be really nice! (Not to mention somewhat cheaper than having to go with QX9775's.)

I can no longer recommend the SM boards until they fix the inadequate CPU power regulator circuits. To run stable on my x7da3+ I need two fans cooling the power regulators. I can no longer run my x7da8 and am on the second rma.

[Movieman]

I can no longer recommend the SM boards until they fix the inadequate CPU power regulator circuits. To run stable on my x7da3+ I need two fans cooling the power regulators. I can no longer run my x7da8 and am on the second rma.

Wow, My X7DAE which is essentially the same as your X7DA8 has run at 100% load since dec 2006 with only shutdowns for OS upgrades and cleaning every 3-4 months. A real tank.
The X7DWA-N with the X5482's in it was dead stable at 8x438 and benched at 8x450