Temperature Logger for water/ambient temps?

[Martinm210]

Just curious if anyone has any other ideas out there, I've been thinking about getting some sort of temperature data logger that will log temps down to .1C resolution with at least a 1C accuracy.

So far this is about the best I could come up with..:shrug:
http://royston-esl.co.uk/images/100/104.jpg
http://royston-esl.co.uk/100%20intro.htm

Anything a little lower cost out there?

Maybe there is a PC based option out there...more than anything I just want logging and .1C resolution with either thermistors or thermocouples.

Any ideas?
Thanks!
Martin

[Martinm210]

Found this also, a little more reasonable.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/extech-7-thermocouple-datalogger-with-alarm-421509/temperature-data-logger/

http://www.professionalequipment.com/product_images/full/T605-1509.jpg

[chiguy]

There's some lab equipment that I've come across that do what you're looking for. It uses a interface box used to connect various sensors, temperature being one of them. It interfaces to a PC and uses a program that is capable plotting temperature over a period of time. I'm not sure of how accurate it is though. Unfortunately I came across this quite a few years ago in my lab classes and I can't remember what brand they were.

[Jedda]

Are there K or J type with .1 resolution?
That pdf seems to say the display resolution is that good but the thermocouples aren't?
Not sure what the +0.7C after the plus or minus figure indicates.
Its certainly in line with the stuff on sale here, price wise.

[joecop120]

LOL the Vernier labpro and loggerpro!!! Yes, I remember those quite vividly.

[Martinm210]

Are there K or J type with .1 resolution?
That pdf seems to say the display resolution is that good but the thermocouples aren't?
Not sure what the +0.7C after the plus or minus figure indicates.
Its certainly in line with the stuff on sale here, price wise.

Yeah, I think that means Type K thermocouples are generally only good for that amount of accuracy plus some percentage, at least I've been seeing that on most of them.

I just want to make sure it at least displays and records to .1C resolution even if the accuracy isn't there I figured logging temps over a period of time will help narrow it down.

I just bought a Type K Thermocouple meter only to find out it's resolution is only down to 1C..:( I guess I have a spare set of Type K's now...:D

It would be so nice to have an automated logging tool like this..:yepp:

[chiguy]

There's some lab equipment that I've come across that do what you're looking for. It uses a interface box used to connect various sensors, temperature being one of them. It interfaces to a PC and uses a program that is capable plotting temperature over a period of time. I'm not sure of how accurate it is though. Unfortunately I came across this quite a few years ago in my lab classes and I can't remember what brand they were.

I asked a friend and found out it was Pasco.

http://store.pasco.com/pascostore/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=54209&Detail=1

It's accurate to +/- 0.5°C with a 0.05 °C resolution. This is just the temperature sensor so you'd need to get the appropriate interface for it as well. They sell various types and lines of interfaces that can be stand alone or with PC interfaces. The different lines of products will have their own associated sensors and such. The link above is their Scienceworkshop line.
http://store.pasco.com/pascostore/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=1503&Detail=1 is their Passport line. They sell the software that works with these products as well.

I have to warn you though, the interfaces aren't exactly cheap.

[Xilikon]

IMHO, the Extech would be your best choice, very good accuracy (0.3C) and good price as well. I think the resolution is limited by the thermocouple own accuracy.

Keep in mind it's not life or death type situation when it come to watercooling testing. What really matter is the long term variations so if you see block X keep temp Y within range Z for 2-3 days, we can use that temp as reference. Also, if you use the exact same temp probe for all the testings, you have a good reference point since if block X is accurate up to 0.3C only, block Y will also be accurate up to 0.3C as well. Finally, even if you can get that accurate, it's useless since you cannot keep the ambient temps accurate to within 0.3C unless you also log ambient temps as well ;)

[Martinm210]

My quesiton would be,

With the K types and logger, how would you couple those inline with the fluid?

andyc

You can buy K type probles, something like this would work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2m-K-Type-Thermocouple-Temperature-Sensor-Probe_W0QQitemZ230214771697QQihZ013QQcategoryZ1191 19QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You'd need a male connector like this to go with it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Marlin-Thermocouple-connectors-Male-K-type-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ220194028853QQihZ012QQcategoryZ119119 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or you could fabricate a proble or run the sensor wet. I've heard and have experimented with some K type bare probes and they appear to read fine wet. You could make a T fitting with a small plug with a hole just big enough for the probe and epoxy it into place or some other means and allow just enough of the probe to enter the flow for a good measurement.


I asked a friend and found out it was Pasco.

http://store.pasco.com/pascostore/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=54209&Detail=1

It's accurate to +/- 0.5°C with a 0.05 °C resolution. This is just the temperature sensor so you'd need to get the appropriate interface for it as well. They sell various types and lines of interfaces that can be stand alone or with PC interfaces. The different lines of products will have their own associated sensors and such. The link above is their Scienceworkshop line.
http://store.pasco.com/pascostore/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=1503&Detail=1 is their Passport line. They sell the software that works with these products as well.

I have to warn you though, the interfaces aren't exactly cheap.

Thanks!

There are alot of different probes, those look nice!


IMHO, the Extech would be your best choice, very good accuracy (0.3C) and good price as well. I think the resolution is limited by the thermocouple own accuracy.

Keep in mind it's not life or death type situation when it come to watercooling testing. What really matter is the long term variations so if you see block X keep temp Y within range Z for 2-3 days, we can use that temp as reference. Also, if you use the exact same temp probe for all the testings, you have a good reference point since if block X is accurate up to 0.3C only, block Y will also be accurate up to 0.3C as well. Finally, even if you can get that accurate, it's useless since you cannot keep the ambient temps accurate to within 0.3C unless you also log ambient temps as well ;)

That's true, I think in the end everything will have some amount of error, but as long as everything is tested exactly the same with a large amount of data, it'll be a good relative comparison.

I'm thinking I might even try one of these kits (http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/meas/ck110.htm) just to play around with. It's a kit that reads off a serial port and uses a digital IC to read temperatures. The digital sensors are really nice because they can read down to .01C with a .5C accuracy and .01C relative accuracy AND 4 channels! That's pretty darn good for a little DIY kit. I also like the fact that because it used s digital IC, there is no error introduced by the lead wires going to the sensors.

Here is another review page of someone using the logger and converting it to USB, so there may be hope in this option. You can buy more sensors for really cheap, so I could make a bunch of different probes for different things and just plug in the 4 channels I want to record.

I'll need to figure out a good way to make a waterproof probe with the sensor, but I think I could do that with some small diameter copper tube, and a brass plug. I'd just need to artic adhesive the sensor head into the bottom of the tubing. You might even be able to coat the wiring and leads with something like tool grip liquid rubber or epoxy to watertight the leads. I'm thinking the sensor being encased in plastic is acceptably watertight. Worst case, you fire a $3 sensor...:D

Here is that USB conversion link of the same logger kit:
http://nashdb.tripod.com/K145.htm

I'm going to have to get one, even if it doesn't work, it would be fun trying..:D

[NaeKuh]

I'm going to have to get one, even if it doesn't work, it would be fun trying..:D

lolol...

The true motiving force of all men. Well besides women. :P

[Martinm210]

lolol...

The true motiving force of all men. Well besides women. :P

:ROTF:...so true..:D

[Xilikon]

So true indeed :D

Start with this cheap kit and if it works very well for testing purposes, it's great. Having 4 channels will help a lot since we want to log a few points together so we can get a accurate delta measurement.

To wateproof a sensor while keeping a good sensibility, it's a good idea to get a very small copper tubing (the same kind used in the phase setups), just large enough to accomodate the sensor then use Arctic Adhesive to glue it in place then pinch/cut the edge very close to the sensor end. It will be waterproof enough so just build a G1/4" plug with a holes in it and braze it in place. Copper is a good conductor like Arctic Adhesive so you are removing a variable (it may account for 0.1C loss but it's meaningless anyway).

[Jedda]

How are you at Basic?
That kit uses software written in the win 98 days for its recording. Looks to be use an old box to log or write something in basic for XP.
Fun looking little kit.

[madmaxx]

when i first got into L/C a few years ago i remember seeing ppl on another forum doing just that - putting their probes into T-lines and what have you; they were using silicone to hold them in place and they also placed them in between the hose/barb; i remember them saying that as long as the sensor was sealed adequately it worked without a hitch :up:

as to the accuracy of the measurement and their ability to log the temps i dunno :shrug:

[systemviper]

Here is that USB conversion link of the same logger kit:
http://nashdb.tripod.com/K145.htm

I'm going to have to get one, even if it doesn't work, it would be fun trying..:D

Hi Martin,

That looks like an interesting set up, if you do get it, let me know what you think of it, i have been looking for a reasonable solution like this.

I might go in that direction also but I was hoping to get a little more cost effective solution, since i want to monitor about 10 points in my pelt rig.

Thanks

[Martinm210]

Thanks!

I done some basic programming back in college, but that's been years ago.

I also found another similar, but more robust option:

About $80 would get you one of these LCD, and if you buy a scab board, you'd basically have the same thing, but with an LCD readout.

http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/635/index.html

Decisions,,, decisions.

[sanhacker]

Hey Martin,
Not sure if you are aware that the bigNG comes with a spreadsheet called history.xls which captures temperatures from all your sensors.

I'm using a bigNG, miniNG and sensor hub to basically control the entire system. I turn down pump voltage on dual loops based on temps from the sensors. The miniNG is running dual DDC+ pumps in analog mode.

I can't believe others don't use this setup. My fans are inaudible while I look at e-mail and barely audible when CPU usage is 100%.

[systemviper]

Hey Martin,
Not sure if you are aware that the bigNG comes with a spreadsheet called history.xls which captures temperatures from all your sensors.

I'm using a bigNG, miniNG and sensor hub to basically control the entire system. I turn down pump voltage on dual loops based on temps from the sensors. The miniNG is running dual DDC+ pumps in analog mode.

I can't believe others don't use this setup. My fans are inaudible while I look at e-mail and barely audible when CPU usage is 100%.

now your talking, thanks for the tip...

[Martinm210]

Hey Martin,
Not sure if you are aware that the bigNG comes with a spreadsheet called history.xls which captures temperatures from all your sensors.

I'm using a bigNG, miniNG and sensor hub to basically control the entire system. I turn down pump voltage on dual loops based on temps from the sensors. The miniNG is running dual DDC+ pumps in analog mode.

I can't believe others don't use this setup. My fans are inaudible while I look at e-mail and barely audible when CPU usage is 100%.


Yeah, the BigNGs are really nice units, I just don't really need the fan control and was looking for something with resolution to .1C. These little DS18B20 sensors read to .01C, have an abosolute accuracy to .5C and a relative accuracy to .01C which is excpetionally good.

You don't need that for regular water block testing, but have .01C relative accuracy would be a huge help in testing heat dump and radiator testing if I ever get into that. It's pretty easy to calculate wattage of heat dump if you have flow rate and water temperature differences, that's where the extra resolution will be handy.

This is what I want to be able to do, check out the resolutions:
http://www.crystalfontz.com/software/633_WinTest/633_WinTest_Temperature.gif

http://www.crystalfontz.com/software/633_WinTest/excel_graph.gif

:up:

[serialk11r]

I remember seeing in a magazine on my old industrial tech teacher's desk that had a sensor that plugged into your computer and I believe let you log things and do a lot of stuff with it. Quite simple. They also had a version that plugged into a TI-84 calculator lol. Its not that expensive, or at least it doesn't seem like it would cost more than some of the stuff I see here... I'm trying to remember the name of the company at the moment...

[Jedda]

Guy posts sometimes on OCAU does the soft for crystalfontz. He was going to bring one back for me on a trip to them last year but I went M-cube instead.

[sanhacker]

I've got the Big NG and was looking at that history file but it's doesn't have any data on it, all 0's. Do you have to do something special to get it to work?

andyc

Hey Andy,
Yeah, I had the same problem at first. Just make sure when you fire up history.xls that it is pointing to the "TBAN20" directory where you installed it. The data then comes in automagically.

The default directory location was causing my problem anyway.

[sanhacker]

Yeah, the BigNGs are really nice units, I just don't really need the fan control and was looking for something with resolution to .1C. These little DS18B20 sensors read to .01C, have an abosolute accuracy to .5C and a relative accuracy to .01C which is excpetionally good.

You don't need that for regular water block testing, but have .01C relative accuracy would be a huge help in testing heat dump and radiator testing if I ever get into that. It's pretty easy to calculate wattage of heat dump if you have flow rate and water temperature differences, that's where the extra resolution will be handy.



I see what you are saying. The bigNG won't give you the "tenth" degree of accuracy. Let alone a hundredth of a degree. It rounds everything off to the nearest degree.

Similar to this:

Date Time Sens0 Sens1 Sens8 Sens9 Sens10
1/23/2008 21:03 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:03 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:03 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:03 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:02 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:02 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:02 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:02 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:01 36 27 28 24 33
1/23/2008 21:01 36 27 28 24 33


It's close enough for us "not so technically equipped" folks that wander the planet without a clue as to how things really work. :shrug:

[Xilikon]

the CrystalFontz option seems to be the best now. You can just setup a cheap computer just for logging purposes :)

[Jedda]

That crystalfontz one wire sensor looks better and better. The DS18B20 boasts 0.5 ° C absolute accuracy and 0.0625 ° C resolution.
Details (http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/cables/WRDOWY17_images.html)

[Martinm210]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too... I bought a used Crystalfontz off ebay yesterday. Up to 32 sensors, .5C absolute accuracy and really good relative accuracy.
I found this document (http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/meas/ck110sensor.pdf)on the sensor with tons of more information, it also has an accuracy chart at the very end. I don't understand it all, but it looks like at 20C the mean error is -.2C.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6974/ds18s20mo7.jpg

If you get the CFA633 model LCD you don't need the scab board, it's all built in. I picked up a Serial model although USB would have been my preference I don't think it matters much more than connection. I found my 680i has a motherboard serial connection, so I'm going to pick up one these 10 pin to 10 pin (http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/cables/WR232Y22_images.html)cables and I should be in business hopefully.

Looks like they can accept either a DS1822 sensor (http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=2795)+-2C, or the high precision DS18B20 (http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?qv_pk=2812) which is of coarse better at the .5C with resolution way down there.:)

Here is a good tutorial on making sensors. (http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=467)

I appears the sensor itself is already encased in plastic, so if you waterproof the sensor leads and wiring, it could probably do just fine measuring water. I'm going to experiment around with making some T fittings, one option would be a direct submerge with the leads epoxied, and one I'll sink into a copper tube to transfer the temperature. Shouldn't be to hard though, I think all you need to do is waterproof the leads and wiring, that should be fairly easy.

Anyhow, got a used unit without faceplate or anything for $27 shipped, now I just need the wiring and sensors...:D Should be a fun tool, with 32 channels I could have sensors running all over the house...:)

[Jedda]

They certainly seem to sell cheap second hand if you can find them.
Was offered a 634 for $20 today.
Seems theres a logging file using wintest for your 633.
633 seems great for a test rig or server but too small screen for gaming box or workstation aesthetics.
If they combine a big screen with usb 633 functionality they'd have a very desirable unit.
I'm looking to combine M-cube with I-MON to get that aesthetic. Whole different direction to the test functionality you're looking for, though.