View Full Version : New wc loop looks like milk
Hi. I have just set up my first wc cpu loop and it looks like milk is flowing through it. It consists of a pa120.2,d-tek fuzion,and t line. I added 3 capfuls of corrosion inhibitor like the instructions said and also some blue uv dye and 4 drops of petra's biocide. Now I am leak testing,bleeding it,and the water looks like milk,it is solid white. If I turn the pump off and let it sit,the water clears up a bit and some white foam collects in one spot. I was wondering if I just need to bleed it more, or if there is a bigger problem. On the plus side,I look good for leaks so far.
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 12:27 AM
did you flush your thermochill rad before running it?
Yes,sorry I forgot to add that I flushed my rad and cpu block.
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 12:30 AM
with? how many times?
Did the check if you got all the flux out?
Sounds like you didn't
I used the guide stickied at the top of the forum. I ran distilled water through a bunch, then isopropyl alcohol, and then flushed it a bunch after that. It looked ok.
Vienna
01-06-2008, 12:41 AM
Hi. I have just set up my first wc cpu loop and it looks like milk is flowing through it. It consists of a pa120.2,d-tek fuzion,and t line. I added 3 capfuls of corrosion inhibitor like the instructions said and also some blue uv dye and 4 drops of petra's biocide. Now I am leak testing,bleeding it,and the water looks like milk,it is solid white. If I turn the pump off and let it sit,the water clears up a bit and some white foam collects in one spot. I was wondering if I just need to bleed it more, or if there is a bigger problem. On the plus side,I look good for leaks so far.
I had this problem, in my case it was just there was still some air stuck in the radiator and such. When the pump turned on, the water turned "milky" and "foamy" while running.
I basicly just tipped it around till I felt most of the air bubbles were gone (while adding watern into my res when needed). It still took a little while for the "foaming" to die down but I just left it over night and presto it was gone and everything was good :)
I feel that it was due to the fact I was using a storm thou, the jets in the storm really break the air up and turn it into "foam", thats just my guess as to where the foaming was occuring as my latest build on my friends PC with a Fuzion did not have this "foam"
Jedda
01-06-2008, 12:42 AM
What corrosion inhibitor?
Probably just micro bubbles.
turtletrax
01-06-2008, 12:44 AM
Both of my Thermochill rads needed a marathon cleaning. Had to use boiling hot water to get them clean and had to do it many times.
Learned my lesson after the first time. I still cannot get my first res clean after that. Properly cleaned my PA 120.3 and no issues since, is about 4 months ago now.
The corrosion inhibitor is D-tek corrosion inhibitor. My loop sounds good now and doesn't seem to be bleeding a whole lot. I'll still let it run for a while and hope that fixes it. Like I said,I did flush the rad and cpu block as suhhusted,so it'd be odd that it is flux.
EDIT: here's a picture.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8500/0106080250rd2.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106080250rd2.jpg)
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 12:59 AM
lol thats looks nice!!! white!!
I would use that in my rig!
hmmm that looks thick hey i dont know...
Lol,at least somone thinks it looks ok! Problem is, I was planing on a nice blue uv tint to the water..not milk. The water doesn't look thick,not does it seem thick(it spurted out on my hand once because I forgot to cover the fillport with my finger when starting lol). I find this whole thing kind of ironic. I was so worried about leaks,and after having this running for 3 hours I think it is sealed great. The last thought on my mind was having issues with this darn water.
sniper007
01-06-2008, 01:07 AM
Its just air in the line surely. Seal it all up and rotate the loop a few times in different directions. Give your rad a tap while doing it - might shift a large lump of air.
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:08 AM
I hope its air!
if not i would drain the loop and clean out everything again...
Looks like it might clog up your loop :(
nzbleach
01-06-2008, 01:10 AM
looks awesome :O
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:12 AM
looks awesome :O
i know hey!!!
i would use that in my white tj07 project im planning... :up:
Maybe jak has stumbled upon a secret white dye formula??
Jedda
01-06-2008, 01:17 AM
Jak,
Can you post a pic with pump off?
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:20 AM
microbubbles jedda?
Heh,it's really funny everyone thinks it's so awesome looking. If I could reproduce it again,I'd consider selling the stuff :). I tried sealing it,tappng the rad a bit ,and moving the hoses. Another bubble of air did come out,I'll just leave it run while I sleep and report back tomorrow...really hope I don't have to drain the loop,I put alot of time into setting it up after my new build got delayed 2 weeks(the ups train the parts were on derailed and everything had to be resent). One final question. While I sleep tonight, is it okay if I leave my fillport open,or should I close it?
EDIT: Picture with pump off after about 30s-1 min
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4816/0106080324iv3.th.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106080324iv3.jpg)
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:22 AM
close it
septim
01-06-2008, 01:24 AM
milkshake...
more normal bleeding time needed most likely...
zLynk
01-06-2008, 01:29 AM
Just as a test, if you can spare the chems, put the same measured amount of corrosion inhibitor, dye, and biocide into a glass container. Mix it up with a stirring rod (preferrably glass), and observe any reactions. If there's no reaction, you should be fine; in fact, mix it up with some distilled water, and use it to flush and fill your system.
Since it's been an hour since you reported this "milk," any reactions with flux or residue from your radiator should be done. One way or another, you'll figure out what's going on.
Jedda
01-06-2008, 01:32 AM
Thats micro bubbles for sure.
Often t-lines are very slow to remove them.
You may have to turn it on and off, collecting a bunch of bubbles each time.
It happens when they go past the t-line so fast they don't get collected, or only very slowly.
Make sure your actual fluid level is still up in the t-line. I suspect its dropped down.
Run pump for a short time then stop and open fillport check level. Close fillport. Rinse and repeat.
Ok,I mixed the chems and water and I will let it sit overnight. At first look, the water turned a bit murky,but sure not white/solid. I will close my t line up while I sleep so nothing spills and let the loop run. I have noticed the coolant level dropping,so I added a bit that should scale well with bleeding while I am asleep. I hope it's just micro bubbles. I'll report back tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's qucik response and help on this,this forum is awesome,
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:47 AM
well if you turn off your pump you will know if its micro bubbles or not.. :)
Well,when I turned it off,the white foam collected at the top as shown in the picture. I'm not exactly sure if this means they are bubbles since it's at the top,I'm new to wcing.
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 01:49 AM
so the rest of the loop is clear bar the top???
If so it's microbubbles
let it run overnight and take jedda advice :)
Yes,everything is clear but the top. I'll let it run.
Jedda
01-06-2008, 02:10 AM
Problem caused by one of the additives increasing the surface cohesion of the bubbles.
I really think the 2nd, stationary pic shows the level down toward the t-fitting. All that foam is air bubbles.
Crazykooter
01-06-2008, 08:49 AM
The bubbles will clear up in time as long as you leave the bleeder open while you run it. I have had it happen before. Give it a few days and you will be fine.
Monkeywoman
01-06-2008, 08:57 AM
speaking of milk, i'm sure 1% milk would make for a fine heat conductor.
Well,while the loop is running,the pitch of the pump goes up and down. I'm not sure if that's normal for the motor,or if is indicating sucking on tiny air bubbles. It's still bleeding,I have to refil the t line every few minutes. I also keep tapping the rad to make sure nothing is lodged in there.
Jedda
01-06-2008, 10:49 AM
Well,while the loop is running,the pitch of the pump goes up and down. I'm not sure if that's normal for the motor,or if is indicating sucking on tiny air bubbles. It's still bleeding,I have to refil the t line every few minutes. I also keep tapping the rad to make sure nothing is lodged in there.
Sounds like you're on track now. T-line can need a little more attention during bleeding but they get there in the end.
Next time add that additive last thing.
Glad to hear its working out. :up:
Thanks. One other question I have is how I should bleed the t line when I turn the pump on and off. If I leave the t line open and turn the pump off,the rush of air bubbles pushes water out the fillport. If I keep the t line closed when I turn it off,this does not happen,but I'm not sure any of the air is bleeding through the cap then.
I'm using a mcp355(same as ddc-2)with petra's custom top.
MorGo7h
01-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Maybe u can drain it and refill it with fresh water?
I think at this point it may just be bubbles, so I will try to bleed it first and hope that does the trick.
Yes. What I am doing right now is cycling the pump then turning it off. Then I crack the fillport a bit to let some air out and seal it back up. I let the system sit off for about 10 minutes,then I can bleed the rest of the air in the t line without the water spilling over. Then I turn the pump back on and repeat the process. This may take a bit longer,but it avoids water spilling out which is nice since I don't want to have to re-add the additives.
Martinm210
01-06-2008, 12:24 PM
I think you may just need to fill up your Tline more, you can even attach a funnel at the top full. The bubbles need to get trapped by the T-line and dissipate, but if your level is too close to the T fitting, it'll take alot longer.
FYI, a 5/8" T fitting bleeds a little faster than the 1/2" fittings. When bleeding I always fill up my T-lines as far as they will go. Just make sure it's not too far when you power off the pump that the coolant doesn't spill out.
Just bubbles although, that's a bit more than I've ever seen, there might be some sort of detergent or flux in the fluid causing the extra amount.
Ok,I've been able to bleed alot out now..how does this look?
Pump on
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7388/0106081754sy0.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106081754sy0.jpg)
Pump off
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2687/0106081755pa5.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106081755pa5.jpg)
As you can see,there is still some foam with it off and it is a bit clearer then,but I can't seem to bleed that last bit..should it bleed off while running with the fillport open? Does this look good now? Thanks.
disruptfam
01-06-2008, 04:22 PM
yeah looks alot better....
let go for abit longer....
Eddie3dfx
01-06-2008, 04:22 PM
Jack, Off it seems the bubbles aren't moving.
bleed with it open.
Leave it off overnight if you have to.
Ok,I'll let it bleed open running for a while.
Eddie3dfx
01-06-2008, 04:29 PM
If that doesn't work, I would flush the loop and add distilled.
Ok,how would I go about flushing the loop if I have to?
Eddie3dfx
01-06-2008, 05:00 PM
most likely take off the clamps from the pump and let all of it drain into a pan.
Ok. In the mean time, I have found something that may not be so good. Last night,I poured some distilled water in a cup alon with about the same amount of additives as I used in my loop. I then left sit it overnight. Now when I went to look at it, I noticed that there is green particulate that has settled in the bottom of the cup. I was wondering if this is because the water was not moving all the time, or if there is a bigger problem here with some odd reaction of the additives.
Eddie3dfx
01-06-2008, 05:42 PM
the additive is contaminating your loop
Don't use it!
Shocker003
01-06-2008, 05:56 PM
Well,when I turned it off,the white foam collected at the top as shown in the picture. I'm not exactly sure if this means they are bubbles since it's at the top,I'm new to wcing.
Some chemicals donīt really mix so well. My advice is drain your loop and run just dist. water with biocide mixture for bleeding. When done add your UV dye. If you have an all copper system, then forget the corrosion inhibitor.
sbinh
01-06-2008, 06:03 PM
Might be that someone flushed the rad with soap :D .. then returned it ...
Now you got those foam .. :D :D ....
darn .. it looks cool though ...
I have a d-tek fuzion and thermochill pa 120.2. The rad said it was copper/aluminum construction, so that is why I had the inhibitor. Do I really need it? Also,for flushing it, my plan is to disconnect the t line at the pump inlet and then run the pump to pump the rest of the water out the disconnected line into a bucket. Then I will cycle some distilled water through it to flush out any gunk,then I will reconnect that part of the line and fill the loop again. Should that be okay?
Underwater Mike
01-06-2008, 06:23 PM
I remember when I first built my WC loop (just decommissioned this weekend after 4 years of continuous use). I used Water Wetter and got the same kind of particulate with only distilled h20 and UV dye.
My advice is to flush the system, then use either a 100% water loop with a bit of biocide, or a non-water coolant. I did the latter and never had an issue...
Okay,it seems like I need to flush it. My question now is if I need inhibitor with a fuzion and pa 120.2. If I do need it,what should I use? I don't want this to happen again. After bleeding for a few hours, this is what my loop looks like right now. Should I just flush it, or does it look ok? I can't see any huge chunks floating like what was in the cup.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3085/0106082043jr4.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106082043jr4.jpg)
Jedda
01-06-2008, 07:46 PM
Tilt the case up slightly, so the t-fitting becomes the highest point in that section of the loop (between cpu and pump inlet). Every time you pump off it will clear that section until all the air is out of that rad.
BTW What kind of rad is it? Got a bleed screw in the end opposite the barbs?
Its up to you if you dump your liquid in response to the particulate. It'll certainly bleed faster additive free and you can add any additive you want last thing.
I hate the idea of particulates condensing in a loop. Pentosin and a little nuke does me but even Pentosin increases surface cohesion.
That pic with pump on or off?
Fuzion and PA doesn't need anything but algaecide like PTS Nuke.
That pic is with the pump on. My rad is a pa 120.2,I'm not sure if there is a bleed screw. I also hate the idea of particulate,but I can't see anyhting obvious in the loop,I'm wondering if it wasn't just because there was less water in a stagnant cup. Is that possible? I would consider flushing more if I didn't think it would be such a hassle. Here's a current pic with pump on,it looks clear to me,but that's comparing it to that milky look. Does this look normal,or does it look like there is junk in the loop? Should the water look like it came straight from the jug, or should it be a bit cloudy due to dye and additive? I'll leave the loop of tonight, if there is an issues with particulate, I should see it collect in the tubes when I wake up. I'm also going to redo the cup test with the correct proportion of chems,I was a bit tired when I did it last night and I realized I put in 4x the amount of inhibitor for that cup size.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5852/0106082215ve0.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0106082215ve0.jpg)
Jedda
01-06-2008, 09:20 PM
The PA does have a bleed screw but it looks like your loop is clearing nicely if that pic is running. Any remaining circulating bubbles would look like a thin stream mid flow and the pic doesn't show any.
Tip your case so the rad outlet barb is the highest point of the rad and any remaining trapped air should release. If not it looks good to me.
Fitseries3
01-06-2008, 09:30 PM
i have a PA120.1 and it's turning my loop red. what is the cause of this? i use distilled water and green uv dye with biocide. did i not flush the rad enough? some one told me that you should fill a new rad with boiling hot distilled water mixed with vinegar like 4-6 times before use. what do you recommend?
Jedda
01-06-2008, 09:47 PM
Vinegar is not needed with the current ROHS generation of rads. All PA rads were made with water soluble flux and only need flushing with water. Hot water speeds the process.
Using oven mits or such to hold the rad fill and shake then drain, repeat until it runs clean. Some flush with running tap water but watch the pressure if you do. Then flush with distilled.
A PA120.3 needs about 5 liters of hot distilled water put through it in my experience.
Fitseries3
01-06-2008, 09:51 PM
Vinegar is not needed with the current ROHS generation of rads. All PA rads were made with water soluble flux and only need flushing with water. Hot water speeds the process.
Using oven mits or such to hold the rad fill and shake then drain, repeat until it runs clean. Some flush with running tap water but watch the pressure if you do. Then flush with distilled.
A PA120.3 needs about 5 liters of hot distilled water put through it in my experience.
so i need like 8 gallons of distilled water? i have 2 pa 120.2's, 1 pa120.3 and 1 pa120.1. the 120.1 is bleeding red into the water. the tubing is turning an orangish red from the outlet of the rad.
Jedda
01-06-2008, 09:56 PM
Flushing and filling two PA120.3 loops took slightly more than 2.3 x 5 liter bottles of the three I bought.
If your single rad is leaking something it needs flushing. Not heard of red from a PA though.
Yes,that pic is running. It's at the point now where it looks the same running or not. So that looks nice and clear? Like I said,I'll look when I get up tomorrow and see if any junk settled in the tubes.
Jedda
01-06-2008, 11:14 PM
Yes,that pic is running. It's at the point now where it looks the same running or not. So that looks nice and clear? Like I said,I'll look when I get up tomorrow and see if any junk settled in the tubes.
I think you're good. Might be a slight drop in level over the next week as any remainder shakes out. I assume you'll be keeping an eye on that for the next little while.
Congrats mate.
:up:
Now, what's your temps like?
Do a good job mounting and TIM?
Awesome! I'm going to install everything else after I get back from school,I can't wait to oc my g0 q6600 on my dfi x38 lp lt mobo. My rad is mounted with velcro and zipties. The last hurdle will be cable management since my silverstone psu isn't modular which I realize is because it's better quality. I'll report back on temps as soon as it get it up. I don't have a probe, so it will have to be software based. Thanks for everyone's help on this, I've learned alot just installing this simple loop.
EDIT:Okay,everyhting's set up and my bios says I'm at 28c idle stock. I'll get a few software apps to check this temp,too. I'll start ocing in a day or two.