Noisy D-Tek FuZion

[Raxxath]

Just as I suspected while it was mounted in my case, my FuZion CPU block is making lots of noise. As you can see in the pictures, its just the FuZion, Mcres, and DDC 3.2 in the loop. The tubing is on very securely this time. ;)

I originally had the 4.5mm nozzle installed, this time I tried it with the 5.5mm, and if I'm not mistaken, it might be a little quieter. The noise is mostly a "woosh" kind of sound, also accompanied by a crackling/snapping noise every second or two, that is quieter than the woosh. I've tried tilting, inverting, lifting, and shaking all the components, but no more air comes out.

Any ideas as to what's causing this would be appreciated.


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e119/LordBrona/494e74b9.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e119/LordBrona/ea758097.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e119/LordBrona/0c2c540c.jpg

[Jedda]

I wonder if this is the 'flutter' that delayed the nozzle kits for so long.
The flutter wasn't completely solved as I recall, but beta testers reported it as much reduced and the kits shipped.

[revogamer]

wheres your rad?

[Raxxath]

wheres your rad?

I didn't put it in the loop because I wanted to be 100% sure the noise was from the FuZion. I'm not running the pump for too long though, so it isn't getting hot.



I've seen that also with the exact same test setup.

I believe it's because there's no restriction and the air can't bleed out. That's what the snapping sound you're hearing is. The fluid is flying thru the res so quickly it's picking back up the air bwtween the inlet and outlet of the Micro Res and running back thru the pump to the Fuzion. Stick a rad in the test loop and watch it quiet down. You wouldn't be seeing this at all in a active installed loop.

andyc

But I did see it in my installed loop. PA120.3, MCW60, FuZion, Mcres, DDC3.2. None of those things are particularly restrictive, but a FuZion with the nozzle kit installed does become pretty restrictive on the smaller nozzles. I was using the 4.5mm when it was in my case. I'm now using 5.5mm, and its either the same amount of noise or a little quieter.

[MaxxxRacer]

try squeesing the tubing coming out of the pump to slow the waterflow down. you will need to squeeze it pretty tight to get it to slow down.

hold it down for about 30 seconds and then let off for 30 and repeat.

Do that a few times and if the sound doesnt go away, im not sure what to say. But either way it apears to be air in the block. There is nothing else that would make that sound.

[Raxxath]

try squeesing the tubing coming out of the pump to slow the waterflow down. you will need to squeeze it pretty tight to get it to slow down.

hold it down for about 30 seconds and then let off for 30 and repeat.

Do that a few times and if the sound doesnt go away, im not sure what to say. But either way it apears to be air in the block. There is nothing else that would make that sound.

That worked. I squeezed down hard and the sound drastically reduced, probably to the point where I wouldn't hear it if it were in my case. What does this mean, that I have too much flow?

[MaxxxRacer]

That worked. I squeezed down hard and the sound drastically reduced, probably to the point where I wouldn't hear it if it were in my case. What does this mean, that I have too much flow?

One of two things

1. air trapped in the waterblock that will work its way out if you follow what i said earlier

2. Cavitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation) of the water caused to high water velocity inside the block. If it is from cavitation, the only way to solve this is to reduce the flow of the system. It may be caused by the increased water velocity of the jet. Please not the terminology I am using. Velocity and not flow. The overall waterflow decreases when you use the restircting inserts, but the water velocity increases at the insert due to the smaller cross sectional area of the water path. Kinda like when you put your finger on a garden hose and it shoots farther than when its wide open,

[Snyxxx]

Repeat turning on and off the pump every 5-10 seconds to let the air bubbles rise to the top of the MC-RES instead of it being recirculated as mcoffey said.

I have this same issue with every build.

[Raxxath]

I tried squeezing and releasing the tube every 30 seconds for a while with no change. Is it really possible that there is still air in the block? I've tilted it and shaken it like crazy and no air comes out. There are no bubbles, not even tiny ones in the tubes or the bottom of the reservoir. The last of the tiny bubbles are all in the top half of the res, and aren't moving at all.

I think it was louder inside of my case because it was pressed against the CPU. The sound transfers easily to whatever the block is touching, and becomes louder.

[coolmiester]

Some of those pins on your FuZion base look a little bent??

The reason I ask is that we got someone complaining about his block making a “tutting noise” and when he came to swap the nozzle he found the pins where damaged though not sure if the two things are related.

[Raxxath]

Some of those pins on your FuZion base look a little bent??

The reason I ask is that we got someone complaining about his block making a “tutting noise” and when he came to swap the nozzle he found the pins where damaged though not sure if the two things are related.

I'll probably test it without a nozzle soon, so I'll check for that when I take it apart, thanks.

[coolmiester]

Yeah I’m going to have to hook this block up to a pump to see if I can replicate the tutting noise with and without nozzle kit.

I presume the noise has got something to do with the nozzle rattling around but not sure.

[Sparky]

My fuzion is always noisy at first because of all the air in the system, but usually it shuts up within 15 minutes for the most part. I have another block, a rad, and a less powerful pump (DDC1) in my loop though so that might be part of it.

[Raxxath]

Its been running for a while now with just the washer, no nozzle. There are no more air bubbles in the tubing or near the inlet/outlet of the res. The noise from the FuZion is just as loud. Why does the FuZion make this noise, but not the MCW60? Pin design, or something like that?

There were a few slightly bent pins on the edges, I bent them back into shape. The adhesive goop from the washer was coming out from beneath it and making a mess, I cleaned it up as best I could.

I don't know what to do next, other than buying a new pump. As I want pretty close to complete silence, I've been looking at the D-Tek dB-1, but I'm afraid its too weak. According to Martin's calculator, even a CPU only loop with a FuZion using any nozzle, the flow will be under 1 GPM, in the 0.8-0.9 range for me. Is that too little?

[MaxxxRacer]

Dont get a different pump. Not worth it.

So from what you are saying, the noise goes away when the flow is reduced?

[Raxxath]

Dont get a different pump. Not worth it.

So from what you are saying, the noise goes away when the flow is reduced?

Well, the DDC 3.2 is a bit louder than I hoped for, anyway. And the noise is drastically reduced when I pinch the tubing, but it doesn't go away completely. The pump noise would drown it out probably.


i'd say air lock within cpu block is causing the noise, flow quanity has no play in the noise only if is a bubble riddled.

I've shaken it, tilted it in every direction, even hit it, and no air comes out. It ran for a good 24 hours total while in my case and the sound never reduced. What more could I do to get air out?

[disruptfam]

Keep your pump...

[Nate P.]

Put the pump on some foam or something, that will keep the noise down.

[Raxxath]

Put the pump on some foam or something, that will keep the noise down.

I have it on Petra's gel, so there's no vibration noise. Its a humming sound that occurs regardless of how its mounted.

[Raxxath]

Raxxath you have any silly puddy or modeling dough to check clearance in the after market top, i'm curious the inlet barb to impeller space, also what colour is the impeller.

I don't have any on hand, I might be able to get some, though.

The impeller is blue. I tried screwing the top on a little looser than I had previously, in case the impeller was hitting it, but it leaked. Right now I have it as loose as possible without any leaks.

[Jedda]

I'd love to go over your test loop with a mechanics stethoscope. Find out exactly where the noise originates.

[MaxxxRacer]

try squeezing the tubing to get the flow down WHILE moving the block around to see if any air bubbles come out.

The reason we are all insiting that its bubbles is that we have seen this a 1000 times already and its always some nasty bubles trapped in the block. Since there are no moving parts and the sound is coming from the block, there is nothing else it can be other than cavitation, but cavitation would stop when you reduce the flow.

[Raxxath]

try squeezing the tubing to get the flow down WHILE moving the block around to see if any air bubbles come out.

The reason we are all insiting that its bubbles is that we have seen this a 1000 times already and its always some nasty bubles trapped in the block. Since there are no moving parts and the sound is coming from the block, there is nothing else it can be other than cavitation, but cavitation would stop when you reduce the flow.

I've been doing that from the start with no luck.

I know you guys definitely know what you're talking about, so I want to believe you, but I don't know what more I can do. Are your FuZions really silent when you put your ear up to them? This noise is a only a little louder than the operation noise from my DDC 3.2 when its decoupled, so I can easily imagine most people never noticing it. I have very sensitive hearing however, so its a problem for me.

How difficult is it for you guys to get the air out of your FuZions? I'm having this much trouble when the loop is small and unmounted... I can't imagine how I would do it when its inside of my case.

Anyway, I'll keep trying to get any air out.

[WhiteFireDragon]

i'm not too sure but maybe it has to do with turbulence flow instead of laminar

[Waterlogged]

I have it on Petra's gel, so there's no vibration noise. Its a humming sound that occurs regardless of how its mounted.

Unless it under just the corners, that's a bad idea.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165299

[Raxxath]

Unless it under just the corners, that's a bad idea.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165299

I know, when its mounted in my case, its on two halves of Petra's gel, and right in front of a fan, so that air flows right over the hot bottom, keeping it at a decent temperature. I would prefer isolation mounting screws, or whatever they're called, but they would have to reduce the vibration noise as well as the gel does. If anyone knows of a type that can do that, I'd be glad to give them a try.

[Waterlogged]

I can point you to some grommets you could use with screws if you want.

[Raxxath]

I can point you to some grommets you could use with screws if you want.

If they get rid of vibrations as well as the gel, then yes please!

[Waterlogged]

Go to Mcmaster and in the search box, type "page 1309". Then scroll down to where it says "Inside Diameter Ribbed Grommets". You'll have to decide what size screws you want to use beforehand and your limited to #6 and #10 screws, but they work very well. You also want limit yourself to the "High-damp PVC" ones as the Low-damp TPR don't respond as well. I'm not sure, but I think the "Ribbed Grommets" might work almost as well and they would give a another screw size option (1/4"). Sorting all the dimensions might be tricky if you don't have the right tools to measure where you want to use these though.

[Snyxxx]

I know, when its mounted in my case, its on two halves of Petra's gel, and right in front of a fan, so that air flows right over the hot bottom, keeping it at a decent temperature. I would prefer isolation mounting screws, or whatever they're called, but they would have to reduce the vibration noise as well as the gel does. If anyone knows of a type that can do that, I'd be glad to give them a try.

Here you go.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22224

[Raxxath]

Go to Mcmaster and in the search box, type "page 1309". Then scroll down to where it says "Inside Diameter Ribbed Grommets". You'll have to decide what size screws you want to use beforehand and your limited to #6 and #10 screws, but they work very well. You also want limit yourself to the "High-damp PVC" ones as the Low-damp TPR don't respond as well. I'm not sure, but I think the "Ribbed Grommets" might work almost as well and they would give a another screw size option (1/4"). Sorting all the dimensions might be tricky if you don't have the right tools to measure where you want to use these though.

Thanks for that, I might pick some up next time I order from Mcmaster. I only wish the High-damp PVC ones came in black, it says they're blue.


Here you go.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22224

Do you use these? Do they work well?

[Xilikon]

Thanks for that, I might pick some up next time I order from Mcmaster. I only wish the High-damp PVC ones came in black, it says they're blue.



Do you use these? Do they work well?

I use them myself and it works very well. However, be aware those are M4 so you need to buy a few M4 nuts as well.

[Raxxath]

I just redid that little loop with my Blitz Formula's Fusion water block(which is supposedly restrictive) before the FuZion CPU block, and the noise is way down. So apparently, I'm not allowed to have high flow. :p:

The barbs on the Fusion NB block are too close together to use clamps or zip ties, so that has me worried...

[Carl_XII]

Your FuZion noise will probably disappear if you slightly enlarge the exit hole diameters in the four corners of the delrin middle block.

[R B Customs]

sure the noise is not coming from the pump ?

is that just plain water?

does it go away when you 'thicken' the water with say... anti freeze?

I have found that DDC's do not respond well to very low resctriction loops - like what you have there.

[Raxxath]

Your FuZion noise will probably disappear if you slightly enlarge the exit hole diameters in the four corners of the delrin middle block.

That's good to know, but I'm not in any position to try that, unfortunately.


sure the noise is not coming from the pump ?

is that just plain water?

does it go away when you 'thicken' the water with say... anti freeze?

I have found that DDC's do not respond well to very low resctriction loops - like what you have there.

100% positive its not from the pump. ;) At least, the noise itself is not originating from the pump. The pump does appear to cause the noise in the waterblock however. I switched to a D-Tek dB-1 for a little while, and the noise was all but gone.

Yes, that is plain distilled water. No, when adding Pentosin G11 the noise does not change.

The D-Tek dB-1 seems to be a MUCH better option for me, but the one I recieved appears to broken, so I'm sending it back. It started rattling like crazy after a couple hours of near-silent use. I've done everything possible to bleed it, so I assume the impeller must be hitting the top, or something like that.

[MorGo7h]

I have the same problem, I'm using a 5mm nozzle. But the fans from your rad a louder so you don't hear it^^
It's the pressure inside the block that makes the noise.

[Erasmus354]

I have the same problem, I'm using a 5mm nozzle. But the fans from your rad a louder so you don't hear it^^
It's the pressure inside the block that makes the noise.

Same exact problem here as well, 5.5mm nozzle. I have my D5 turned down to 1 to stop the damn noise, its not hurting my cooling too much only a degree or two. This way I at least get to keep my sanity. The noise is REALLY annoying too, it almost sounds like a signal from outerspace or something. It almost sounds like the nozzle is spinning around inside the block, with water squirting around the edges, making noise as it rubs against the walls.

I know that the air isn't quite fully bled out of my loop so I am hoping once that happens I can turn the pump back up, if not I am a bit disappointed that I have to limit my loop because the waterblock is noisy :(