Elbows, Pumps and Woes....

[kinghong1970]

I've tried... i really did... i swear...

but due to the current positioning of the pump, reservoir and the rest of my junk, the pump inlet barb has to be replaced by an elbow...

pump is a DDC3.2 with Petra's Top... i've thought about using original top... but my tubing is 7/16"... the plastic barbs on original pump is 3/8"
and it is a dual loop so i do not have much room in the case as well...

Option A:
use Koolance Elbow Nozzle Single, G1/4 Swivel Angled [13mm, 1/2"] - Single Fitting (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=346_203&products_id=22445)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/nzl-l13kg1.jpg

Option B:
use Delrin/Acetal 90 Degree Fitting (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=346_342&products_id=21438)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/Delrin-90.jpg

but i will replace one of the barbs with Danger Den Male x Male Nipple (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=346_342&products_id=22062)...

personally, i am leaning towards the Koolance elbow... i have the 3/8" version... it actually fits the 7/16" ID 9/16" OD Black Tygons... but the inner diameter of the elbow is 3/8"... it also allows the elbow to swivel a bit... instead of actually rotating the nipple when the tubes are moved/pushed...

here's a pic of Option B using Danger Den Derlin-T instead of the Elbow...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/kinghong1970/Water%20Cooling/IMG_9631.jpg
it's just too many moving parts and also, the leverage the tubing provides makes it easy for the Tee to swivel... just not too comfy with all that motion...
at least the Koolance Elbow was meant to swivel...

thoughts and opinions much appreciated...

[Fush]

What are the spaces used for mounting the pumps in that pic?


sorry abit off topic

[TopherTony]

well I use copper 3/8 inch 90 deg elboes with the 7/16 pipe ends. they seal very well to tygon 3603 and dont add much restriction at all. Only issue is that you have to give some room for barb>hose>90>hose and they dont swivel like the koolance. If the koolance is as restrictive as the other one, then go for then do the koolance. I dont know if one has less flow or not.

[Waterlogged]

I choose Option C. None of the above :D

kinghong, If you can't get a set of elbows off Martinm, use these (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=22687) paired up with Koolance barbs (NZL-V13KGB). I'd rather recommend D-Tek barbs but I know Koolance has a thing for much shorter threads than the rest of the industry and they (D-Tek's) may not work right.

[Martinm210]

Have you tried some smart coils and a sharp tubing bend?

I would just avoid elbows on the pump if you can. The Koolance elbow is pretty cool with the swivel, but it also looks like a smaller inside diamter than a typical 10.0mm high flow barb.

You'll end up with a small sharp bend much the way the stock top is.

Oh and there is one more option..;)
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2431/moaehalfmalethreadedhaldc8.jpg

Or
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8218/moaehalfthreadedelbowlr9.jpg

[Sideroxylon]

Martin option ftw!!! Those are sweet. Nice work Martin.

[YugenM]

What about using Loctite on Option B

[Jedda]

Either Martin's solution or a pair of alphacool tops with side bushings and hang the pumps above each other.

[NaeKuh]

Martin is there any chance you can make barbs for thermochill PA series radiators? OMG, i can think of so many that would buy them off you state side.

[momoceio]

Can't you just buy a copper elbow and home depot and put a male/female barb in it? I think HD will thread it for you if you ask...

[septim]

why go through the hassle when martin already have em for a decent price too...

[NaeKuh]

Can't you just buy a copper elbow and home depot and put a male/female barb in it? I think HD will thread it for you if you ask...

it wont fit.

the barb thread is G1/4

The copper elbow is 1/2ID.

LOL i tried to get it to work. Wont do it. Martin seals the ends up with what looks like flux and sodder. Very excellent worksmanship :up:


The only otherway to slip the tubing expecially if using 7/16 is to slip a 1/2 copper tubing, like martin's barb and seal it with silicon for a temp seal. But when you pull that thing out, it may slip off and leak.

Hence why martin's custom work FTW!

[Martinm210]

Martin is there any chance you can make barbs for thermochill PA series radiators? OMG, i can think of so many that would buy them off you state side.

I'll probably buy some BSPP dies here pretty soon, even if I don't find interest in making barbs, at least I'll have the tools to make some..:up:

I can't right now though, my lathe is not threading capable.

[[486]]

it wont fit.

the barb thread is G1/4

The copper elbow is 1/2ID.



if it's a 1/2 inch copper fitting the id is 5/8 inch



I can't right now though, my lathe is not threading capable.
do you just not have change gears, [the gears that spin the leadscrew] or does your lathe have no leadscrew, because the gears for most lathes can be found on ebay

[NaeKuh]

;2665989']if it's a 1/2 inch copper fitting the id is 5/8 inch


oops.. thanks for the correction.

That makes it even worse. LOL since 1/2 = 4/8 and 5/8 is greater. :yepp:

[Martinm210]

;2665989']if it's a 1/2 inch copper fitting the id is 5/8 inch


do you just not have change gears, [the gears that spin the leadscrew] or does your lathe have no leadscrew, because the gears for most lathes can be found on ebay

Nope, no gears on my lathe, the chuck is just belt and pulley driven and I don't have any power feed or gearing for that. A threading die is probably faster and more precise anyway.

Here is a picture of my lathe/mill when I was just unpacking it.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5162/millpartcleanedpv7.jpg

Very basic, but it has nice ways with good oil fittings and does a nice job. I've seen this same frame with more features sold in packages over twice the cost, so I'm happy even though it's a little featureless..:D

I'd take a picture now with the added goods, but it's all hidden under copper and brass shavings...:)

[septim]

cool diligent hardware you got...

[[486]]

HARBOR FREIGHT!!!!

Right?
i saw one there and thought that that would be good for someone with limited space, does it have a r-8 spindle on the mill part?

at my dad's house we've got a jet 12"-36" lathe, and a induma mill [a french copy of a bridgeport series 1] which is VERY worn on the ways, both are constantly covered in chips and oil.
hate not being able to mess with computers for a day/shower or two after using 'em though :D

[kinghong1970]

What are the spaces used for mounting the pumps in that pic?


sorry abit off topic

Fush, the rubbery things are from a Scythe HDD Anti Vibration thingy set...

i thought it would help lessen the vibration off the pumps as well...

thanks very much for your ideas...
basically, i removed the rubber standoffs and in place, used 2x neoprene washers, hence giving me about 1" more room on top... not too much but obviously enough to make a difference...

i will post pics later...

but the additional 1" along with twisting the tube & smartcoils in a kind of a spiral allows for a more tighter turn without the kinks... also tightens the smartcoils to the tube...

hence... Martinm's idea worked...

Martin... dude... nice toys!

thanks again for ideas... i will post some pics on my build thread later...

[Martinm210]

Thanks! I really like the machine. I used to rebuild alot of machines back in the days when I worked in a machine shop, so I have a general sense of what to look for. Most importantly for any machine is nicely ground ways and a good oiling system. This one has both, even has oil channels cut into the ways to distribute oil well.

Yes it's a Harbor frieght machine. I've looked at some others there like the Siege X2 based mini mill, but it just had machined only ways and no oil fittings. HF has a mix of really cheap and some good stuff. I think this one is pretty good.

There are a few things I don't care about on it.
The stock vise is worthless when it comes to using parallels and precisely clamping workpieces (I replaced that with a toolmakers vise right away). The dials are metric and it appears the y direction is metric/2 to account for lathe diameter type work. The Z dial resolution isn't fine enough...thankfully these dial problems can be remedied using DRO scales.
Also the chuck that comes with it is all you get, thankfully you can buy a MT2 tapered ER40 set of spring collets for it , which I recently purchased.

The x and y travel is good, but the Z is limited to just under 4" which can mean a little more preplanning and trouble using long drill bits. The motors aren't the highest quality, and I already went through one run capacitor on the mill head (likely just user error though using a light guage extension cord).

Anyhow, it's a nice machine once you work out the kinks, I really like it! Once leveled and adjusted, it does nice accurate work. Of coarse it is all manual and even speeds have to be adjusted by pully changes.



Anyhow, sorry to get off topic, back to fittings for the OP.

One thing I noticed in some pump testing a ways back was that added restriction on the inlet side actually improved head pressure for me in my test, so some DD derlin elbows should be just fine... Probably not going to make any real world difference in temps as long as the whole system is above 1 GPM.:up:

[alpha0ne]

Sorry for the OT but damn thats a nice little lathe/mill you have Martinm210............................will you please marry me :shocked: :ROTF:

I just use copper elbows, the same that most plumbers use

[sanhacker]

Oh and there is one more option..;)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8218/moaehalfthreadedelbowlr9.jpg

I'm loving those threaded elbows. They worked out perfect for me.

Much better flow than the 1/2" copper street elbows I was using from the local Home Depot. :up:

[[486]]

I had a d5 in my loop when it was together and i just used a 1/2 inch copper elbow with tubing stretched over the ends, or sometimes i would solder little stubs of pipe in them to reduce the amount the tube has to stretch, and it didn't affect the temps at all

[offtopic]/I was looking at one of their minimills and was thinking of beefing it up like on a site that just recently added a members only thing, so i cant find it to link to it,then cnc it, but too expensive, the only real thing i don't like about the lathe like you got is the short bed, i usually work with longer things than the center to center on that machine, but otherwise it looked good, did you look at the ways on the little mills, they have 1/8" ridges on them from milling them/[offtopic]

although i dont think off topic matters now that the problem was solved, right?


but the additional 1" along with twisting the tube & smartcoils in a kind of a spiral allows for a more tighter turn without the kinks... also tightens the smartcoils to the tube...

hence... Martinm's idea worked...

[SiGfever]

@Martin,

Have you made any with Long Turn elbows?

[ceemic]

ot:
12mm diam. 90degree copper elbow, 1$ in local hardware store:
http://ceemic.pri.ee/vesi/water16.jpg
http://ceemic.pri.ee/vesi/water15.jpg

:rolleyes:

[momoceio]

I was at HD today and they sell a 1/2 ID elbow and 1/2 barb that would work well too...Martins setup does look nice too though.

[Martinm210]

@Martin,

Have you made any with Long Turn elbows?

No, the pressure drop is so small in the tight 90, I didn't think it was worth worrying about the long sweep. They also don't stock them locally, or at least I havn't found them yet.

For a comparison:

Pressure drop
1 90 copper tight elbow = 5.4" of 7/16" tubing

For most cases if you can fit a long sweep elbow, you could use smartcoils and nearly bend as tightly without any fittings.

Pressure drop is so small in these elbows, it's getting hard to even measure with a good .1" resolution manometer. Compared to pressure drops in a CPU block, it's almost nothing at all.

[qdemn7]

Hey Martin, what would be the best hand tool for use with a G 1/4" tap to cut threads in acetal?

[Martinm210]

Hey Martin, what would be the best hand tool for use with a G 1/4" tap to cut threads in acetal?

A really cheap drill press...:)

I do all my tapping in my press or mill, but you could hand tap with a standard T handle if your tap is a tapered type where the taper helps keep you plumb. Fortunately Acetal is very easy to tap, just make sure you use an 11.8mm drill bit, a T handle wrench, and maybe a small square to check plumb now and then.:up:

[qdemn7]

A really cheap drill press...:)

I do all my tapping in my press or mill, but you could hand tap with a standard T handle if your tap is a tapered type where the taper helps keep you plumb. Fortunately Acetal is very easy to tap, just make sure you use an 11.8mm drill bit, a T handle wrench, and maybe a small square to check plumb now and then.:up:Got it, thanks! :up:

Those X3s at HF sure are nice, but I just don't have the room to leave one set up. :dammit: