狂少's CDT-tweak

[massman]

OPB's tweak which helped him to do the

Thread on Coolaler forums: http://forum.coolaler.com/showthread.php?p=1889672

Seems like a very good find, but does it work for everyone? Does anyone have the theoretical explanation?

Please only judge the tweak, not the person. I don't care about how you feel about the person.

__________________________________________________ _______---

1st step:

make the pagefile exactly 512~512mb under the partition you place super pi 1.5mod

make a new folder named whatever you like , make 3 files which size can be about{ 600m(628666368)--->maxmem (I set), and pplus 32m..}x 3

2nd step:

use winrar to make the single rar files ...so it will be smaller or equal to 2gb, if you fail during compress....you know your setting ddefinitely haas problem on it.

2a. run the window of wuper pi 32m (or even 1m) set the size you wanna run...and leave the dialogue there.

3. Cut this rar file and paste @ C:/ for 3 timess.

** check with task manager for the available memory size...so let the system idle for at least :

20seconds for 1m
45 second for 32m

1m need to be greater than 460m


suggestion from OPB..:

you will need to do above BEFORE you use setfsb or clockgen to OC your FSB and change your memory parameters from memset.

Good luck.

**you also can use cut-paste -copy ...this is what I will try to do the experiment with CDT-V

the file is like this...
632m(about) need 3 of them...no ned to be exactly, but need to be only 3..
cuz not like you stated above..that would do it like 6 or more...that would completely mess the sequential compress action up.


when you run super pi, you need to choose size right?
after you choose , the dialogue will show:

"now start to calculate"

just stop there and do whatever need to do

reason:
cuz at that moment, you system has about to prepare some elments need to running super pi size you set...very important.

you cut the file , your ram is tempoarily store that img some address,
certainly you always cut from D to c..I did say from where you place the super pi folder right?

so after you paste on c...right click your mouse...can you do one more...two again?...
it will ask you "overwrite it..."
ok ..you need one folder.. only one for entire CDT-IV

why ? becuase you need to make it into a rar files..
so only ...ONLY make a folder ..and you will need to find 3 files are about 632m( 600m+32m is the hint for thinking why..but doesn NOT have to be 600+32..(I can have 598+34? right?...)

so the best way is you only make it once for 632mb for instance, then copy it into the folderright? then re-name the original to othername and copy into that folder...so now your folder has how much? 1264mb? so the one remain out side the folder still 632mb right?
so rename again and "cut it and paste into that folder...
now, if you install winrar already, right click that folder, and make a whatever name of the rar file...there we go, after done...you know what to do...



**All this way above is NOT must do like this...it's only one of the 1000 ways...to form you a 1.8g~2.0gb single rar file....

but why I give the hint for 3x(600mb+32mb) to form that single rar?...haha..

**************************

for everyone:
if you wanna integrate Copy-waza, please, after you do Cut and paste , copy from c to D and then you will need to paste @ d over-write for 2 times..., you will get the most surprised result.


here we go for elementry scool dialogue

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/cdtiv1ststep.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/cdtiv2ndstep.jpg

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/cdtiv3rdstep.jpg

will post real procedure during making this.

during the initial small file make up:

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/05.jpg

1st step completed; First C.I formed

此圖已經縮小,點擊察看原圖。

2nd step initializing:

see that difference between available memory and system cache?

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/02.jpg

then...
** Anti-derevitive?lol 3 times from wherever to D
http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/06.jpg


Finalize the final step of CDT-iv...Cut...(Dereivitive in calculus?)

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/01.jpg

the final step, idle and let system balance, close the task manager and you're redy to go.

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/03.jpg

MODS: if this is not appropriate, please delete

[metro.cl]

Holy :banana::banana::banana::banana: that is a long tweak, i wonder how he discovered it

[CaNNibaL]

Wow, does that really works ?!

It's an awesome discover.

[M.Beier]

Alot of the tweak is used in 32M ??? However, I dont get the part with "D balance" ????

[JasonDTM]

It can be used with any Pi calculation you can think of. ;)

[krampak]

And the average gain using this tweak is ... ? :confused: :eek:

[M.Beier]

It can be used with any Pi calculation you can think of. ;)

But usually... Instead of copy-waza, you will benefit more from deleting SPI, reinstalling, then reboot and make a 1M run straight away - with as little maxmem as possible...

[BeardyMan]

It's well explained and not that hard to do it.

However according to this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=142980) thread , a full tweaked os should get around 13.8XX when same speeds are used.
This means the boost should be around 0.29Xsecs on a already tweaked system?
To verify that it actually works?

That would be sick, but the explanation makes sense though :)

[NiCKE^]

elmor did it and it shaved off 16s of his 32M score...

[DEVIL K-ce]

elmor did it and it shaved off 16s of his 32M score...

16 second ?

:confused:

[MaSell]

It works very well for me, I've tested it few day ago.

[BeardyMan]

It works very well for me, I've tested it few day ago.


...but OPB is cheater :rofl:

hey please respect massmans first post ;)

"Please only judge the tweak, not the person. I don't care about how you feel about the person."

[Gautam]

I have no hardware with me to test anything but I am curious. So, let's see how a time done with this tweak stacks up to my 400x9 2:3 4-4-4. This should be pretty easy to match on P35 or even 965. X38 might be too fast clock for clock for fair comparison. If it's really that effective beating this should be easy. Any takers?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60190&stc=1&d=1181068146

[NiCKE^]

http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?p=21639#post21639 Feel free to read elmor's results..

[kiwi]

http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showthread.php?p=21639#post21639 Feel free to read elmor's results..

"you do not have permission to access this page"

[Enoc]

Massman with eram + cw + maxmem, you get more virtual memory and you restrict system memory and in a part it's effective...

all i can think is that with this tweak you get the same effect but system is balanced, last pic, seems to be the key, and while you restrict system memory maybe you don't get the penalty of using eram(part of your mem) and the system manages better...

[MaSell]

hey please respect massmans first post ;)

"Please only judge the tweak, not the person. I don't care about how you feel about the person."

That ironic, this is working for me, but there much people call him cheater etc. Remember last topic about his spi scores @ 3.6ghz? He is one level higher in spi tweaking that other, thats all. I can prove that it works not only with 32M ;) :

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4139/spi16m11min40sbx4.png
maxmem 600MB, CW D:/ -> C:/

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/207/spi16m11min35sii6.png
maxmem 600MB, CDT Tweak ;)

No big deal, but remember that 32M allocating twice more memory, and I also have only 1GB memory, so difference will be bigger. Sory for that "amazing" config, but I havent got power to change pc now.

You can see that I don't fully understand (or do something wrong), because 12th loop difference is about 8s (!!), but finally I got only 5s difference.

[M.Beier]

That ironic, this is working (for me), but there much people call him cheater etc. Remember last topic about his spi scores @ 3.6ghz?

That was obvious... However, you've missed the point, you piss alot of people off by being ironic, as its not the only evidence claimed, and the thread ISNT SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT THE MAN BUT THE TWEAK

[youngpro]

damn gautam that is a FAST run for ddr2, i only JUST got 12m 59s with ddr3 on the new gigabyte x38-dq6, ddr3 is alot easier to break into 13m..

ive been looking at this tweak alot in the past few days, and i think im starting to get the hang of it, its giving me an additional 2s on top of my normal copywaza times on a consistent basis, here are some before and after results..

E6700 - 514 * 7 = 3600mhz @ 1.45v
Cellshock PC14400 @ C6 2.0v (333mhz strap)
Gigabyte X38T-DQ6 (OVP mod team.au edition)
OCZ GameXStream 700w
FX5500


1st run, 12m 53s
Tweaks: Windows XP w/ classic theme, subtimings

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa50/preeeezy/3600_12m_53s_nocdt.jpg


2nd run, 12m 48s
Tweaks: Windows XP w/ classic theme, maxmem 616, subtimings, msconfig tweaked, eram, opb cdt-diversity tweak IV (copy-waza)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa50/preeeezy/3600_12m_48s_cdt_eram.jpg

this could have alot to do with eram and disabling services, but this run is 5s quicker than anything ive done before, and ive seen the results elmor and opb have been getting with it.. please consider it as a possible legitimate tweak

[Gautam]

Can elmor or anyone else match my settings? This looks like copy waza on steroids to me but who knows, it might be effective.

[MaSell]

That was obvious... However, you've missed the point, you piss alot of people off by being ironic, as its not the only evidence claimed, and the thread ISNT SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT THE MAN BUT THE TWEAK

I know, my mistake. Sorry.

[BenchZowner]

I don't think this is what it takes to match that crazy 1M time at low clocks though ;) [off-topic ends here]

[afireinside]

Anyone want to explain WHY this works in ENGLISH?

[eva2000]

Anyone want to explain WHY this works in ENGLISH?
not sure probably to do with better ultisation of OS caching ??

going to try this out and see :)

[Gautam]

Can you run at 400x9 2:3 4-4-4??

Edit- or if not this is one to match with easy ram clocks.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58784&stc=1&d=1178763238

[andre X_X]

very interesting tweak.... i might wanna give it a try..

[ent]

Can anyone say how much improvement over classical copy waza tweak you get by doing it this way? Cause I think that it will be close to zero :D

[hipro5]

All I see in pictures uploaded from different persons that have tested it, is a "COPY WAZA" gain and nothing more....
Could someone please test it like below:

a. without any "software tweaks" (windows tweaks) - put only ramtimmings etc. (I mean, DO LargeSystemCache=1 and Priority=Very high for Super-Pi and things like that but without CopyWaza and things like that.....Only ramtimmings etc)

b. Then do what you always do up to now with only 384MB/384MB fixed Page File and Copy Waza from one disk to another (into Super-Pi folder)......Copy Waza ~768MB and more (doesn't matter if it will be 2GB)
After Copy Waza ends copying, close Explorer from task manager, close task manager and WAIT for some seconds till the HD led STOPS blinking....When it stops blinking, start the 32M

c. Do as CDT-Tweak describes

and finaly report findings?....:)

[eva2000]

George, i'm doing such tests or similar i.e. no tweaks vs tweaks copy waza (doesn't work much for me) vs CDT-tweak etc

Will take a while since copy of files takes longer to do than running 32M Pi itself hehe

[andre X_X]

waiting for your research eva.... i think its just optimized copy wazza..

[C3]

This is by elmor:

[QUOTE]

This tweak definitely works!

Pics up soon.

edit:

System specs, just straight boot didn't editing any timings:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/sysspecs.jpg

Then just run without cw/cdt:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/nocw.jpg

And with the previous OPB CDT I learned from him:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/cdt.jpg

Now, how about with this new OPB CDT-IV tweak:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/opbcdt.jpg


Wow, how about that? I just shaved of 16 seconds of a SPI 32M round!

I'll explain exactly how I did it as some have some trouble understandning how to do this tweak.

First you will need to set your maxmem to 600 (I used 620 which worked good aswell, though I belive the file 600+32MB is 600MB = avaliable ram and the extra 32MB is because of pi 32M calculation, am I right Kevin?) and also I believe it is very important to have a 512-512MB big pagefile on the SPI-partition (D: in my and Kevins case). Ok, now the instructions:

1. I created 1x 632mb file using the command "fsutil file createnew D:\myfile 647168000" (1000*1024*632) for a file of exactly 632MB.
2. Then I put it in a RAR-archive with the Store Compression method for no compression.
3. After that I renamed it to myfile2 and then myfile3 and after each rename add it to the RAR-archive with the Store option so that you get a 1896MB big RAR-archive.
4. Then I transfered it to my benchdisk with an USB flashdisk (I created the file on my laptop) and put it on SPI-partition (D:\file.rar).
5. Now you start SPI and select 32M calculation and press OK, but don't press OK to start it, let it wait there.
6. After that you copy it three times to C:\file.rar and the two other times you have to overwrite of course.
7. Next you copy D:\file.rar to any folder on D:\, for me it was D:\cw\, three times just like you did to C:\ before.
8. Now, as Kevin says, to balance it you copy the file C:\file.rar to D:\file.rar and overwrite it. I did it three times and I saw the ammount Avaliable memory raise each time.
9. Now you can close the Taskmanager if you had it open for monitoring and all the other windows not related to SPI and now you can start your calculation!

Hope this writeup helps you understand Kevins outstanding tweak better, I can only imagine what it takes to be able to find this tweak out.

BTW, I didn't get the Avaliable memory and System cache balanced so System cache was about 2MB more. If I can get those two balanced maybe even more gain is possible.

[elmor]

Please remove that last part, it might be bugged. (the last pic)

[hixie]

Tested, and can confirm it works.
I did a SPI 4M on a old socket 604 dual xeon. Time with no tweak was 3M 45.500Secs after tweak time was 3M 38.594Secs.
A difference of 6.906Secs or a 3% increase!

[BeardyMan]

A64 X2 6000+ at stock 15*200 ddr2 at 333mhz 5-5-5-12
No tweaks whatsoever,no realtime, no shutting down of services nothing.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7209/stockvm1.jpg

The CDT tweak, and maxmem at 680
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1784/cdtvuw4.jpg

OPB, if you read this, you are one special dude man, you could have saved allot of trouble and accusations by explaining these sick tweaks :D like you did know.
Kudos :up:

[Unseen]

how about this small progy instead ;)

[BeardyMan]

how about this small progy instead ;)

wtf is that? :D

[elmor]

As you can see the tweak works for 1M-32M tests and explains why OPB had better performance/clock than the rest. How about some people start doing a bit of apologizing?

[eva2000]

I must sux at this kind of tweak or something.. like copy waza, CDT-IV may help sometimes but is usually <3 seconds improvement over no tweaks for me on WinXP Pro SP2 :o

Still maxmem 600M + CDT-IV was fastest for me still so. But probably I'm not doing copywaza or CDT-IV properly ?

System

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 L720A489 Retail
Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4929) with Artic Cooling MX-2 TIM
Asus Blitz Formula (http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4294) 1101 bios
128MB Gainward FX5200 PCI
2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500 in white dimm slots
Memory cooling = 120x25mm Thermaltake 81cfm fan
80GB Hitachi 7K80 SATA
Pioneer DVR-08 Burner
Sony FDD
620W Corsair HX620 PSU
WinXP Pro SP2


http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/3600Mhz_results.png

no maxmem + no tweaks
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m20s125ms_normal.png

no maxmem + copywaza
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m19s813ms_copywaza.png

no maxmem + CDT-IV
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m20s234ms_cdtiv.png

maxmem 600M + no tweaks
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/maxmem600/spi32m_13m19s969ms_normal.png

maxmem 600M + copywaza
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/maxmem600/spi32m_13m20s031ms_copywaza.png

maxmem 600M + CDT-IV
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/800/400-600_5545_325333_1.36875-1.34-1.67-2.26-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/maxmem600/spi32m_13m19s782ms_cdtiv.png

edit: only real way i know how to gain 7+ seconds is raw memory bandwidth LOL

Would this mean if i could get copy waza to work this below run would of been sub 13min ? :)

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/5_8/400-640_5545_330323_1.36875-1.36-1.69-2.38-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m12s875ms.png

[BeardyMan]

As you can see the tweak works for 1M-32M tests and explains why OPB had better performance/clock than the rest. How about some people start doing a bit of apologizing?

At the time being, there was no such tweak. It's a new tweak it doesn't cover old results.
And you should know better since you got the old tweaks from him and wich you tested and you know the result ;)

But i have no problem with apoligizing if the man finally comes back and post again like he used to :)

[hipro5]

I repeat........Do as following and report back...... :)

a. without any "software tweaks" (windows tweaks) - put only ramtimmings etc. (I mean, DO LargeSystemCache=1 and Priority=Very high for Super-Pi and things like that but without CopyWaza and things like that.....Only ramtimmings etc)

b. Then do what you always do up to now with only 384MB/384MB fixed Page File and Copy Waza from one disk to another (into Super-Pi folder)......Copy Waza ~768MB and more (doesn't matter if it will be 2GB)
After Copy Waza ends copying, close Explorer from task manager, close task manager and WAIT for some seconds till the HD led STOPS blinking....When it stops blinking, start the 32M

c. Do as CDT-Tweak describes

and finaly report findings?....


@ elmor: DON'T say please that the "his" previus tweak works coz IF it DID worked as you claim, you could have BEATEN Gautam's 32M........No?...... ;)

P.S. Guys from OCX PLEASE, test with Copy Waza firstly and then re-run it with this CDT-Tweak..... ;)

[BeardyMan]

I repeat........Do as following and report back...... :)

a. without any "software tweaks" (windows tweaks) - put only ramtimmings etc. (I mean, DO LargeSystemCache=1 and Priority=Very high for Super-Pi and things like that but without CopyWaza and things like that.....Only ramtimmings etc)

b. Then do what you always do up to now with only 384MB/384MB fixed Page File and Copy Waza from one disk to another (into Super-Pi folder)......Copy Waza ~768MB and more (doesn't matter if it will be 2GB)
After Copy Waza ends copying, close Explorer from task manager, close task manager and WAIT for some seconds till the HD led STOPS blinking....When it stops blinking, start the 32M

c. Do as CDT-Tweak describes

and finaly report findings?....
Hmm good point.
Wil try that right away.;)

[Metallica]

At the time being, there was no such tweak. It's a new tweak it doesn't cover old results.
And you should know better since you got the old tweaks from him and wich you tested and you know the result ;)

But i have no problem with apoligizing if the man finally comes back and post again like he used to :)


You're wrong mate ;) , the tweak DID exist by that time, well not this one as this is the "final" by now CDT tweak, as you can see this is "rev 4" if you want to call a name to it :) , CDT tweak has been posted at OCX tweak section long time ago, this rev is little more effcicent than the older ones but this is "the tweak" that everyone was claimng for since the first OPB's 8.906s SPI 1M

btw this is Predator lol :)

[BeardyMan]

You're wrong mate ;) , the tweak DID exist by that time, well not this one as this is the "final" by now CDT tweak, as you can see this is "rev 4" if you want to call a name to it :) , CDT tweak has been posted at OCX tweak section long time ago, this rev is little more effcicent than the older ones but this is "the tweak" that everyone was claimng for since the first OPB's 8.906s SPI 1M

btw this is Predator lol :)

hehe long time no see :D

I have done the copy waza tweak wich is quite the same lol, and i obtained the same score on my AMD rig.
Gues i cheered to early :)
Copy waza = CDT tweak .

[elmor]

@ elmor: DON'T say please that the "his" previus tweak works coz IF it DID worked as you claim, you could have BEATEN Gautam's 32M........No?...... ;)

At 3GHz only with 375MHz FSB? I'll give that 3.6GHz time a try when I get ahold of a cpu that can run 3.6GHz and above 400MHz FSB.

If you just want a better 32M time than Gautams at 3.6 how about this from OPB?

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/36gpi32mfastest.png


hehe long time no see :D

I have done the copy waza tweak wich is quite the same lol, and i obtained the same score on my AMD rig.
Gues i cheered to early :)
Copy waza = CDT tweak .

Copy Waza != CDT(-IV) tweak, you could say that the CDT tweak is a more advanced Copy Waza though.

[before]

You're wrong mate ;) , the tweak DID exist by that time, well not this one as this is the "final" by now CDT tweak, as you can see this is "rev 4" if you want to call a name to it :) , CDT tweak has been posted at OCX tweak section long time ago, this rev is little more effcicent than the older ones but this is "the tweak" that everyone was claimng for since the first OPB's 8.906s SPI 1M

btw this is Predator lol :)

Nothing else matters! :toast: ;)

[hipro5]

You're wrong mate ;) , the tweak DID exist by that time, well not this one as this is the "final" by now CDT tweak, as you can see this is "rev 4" if you want to call a name to it :) , CDT tweak has been posted at OCX tweak section long time ago, this rev is little more effcicent than the older ones but this is "the tweak" that everyone was claimng for since the first OPB's 8.906s SPI 1M

btw this is Predator lol :)

LOOK BELOW V V V

@ elmor: DON'T say please that the "his" previus tweak works coz IF it DID worked as you claim, you could have BEATEN Gautam's 32M........No?...... ;)

P.S. Guys from OCX PLEASE, test with Copy Waza firstly and then re-run it with this CDT-Tweak..... ;)

[erwinz]

will try this.. :)

thanks for sharing.. :)

[hipro5]

At 3GHz only with 375MHz FSB? I'll give that 3.6GHz time a try when I get ahold of a cpu that can run 3.6GHz and above 400MHz FSB.

If you just want a better 32M time than Gautams at 3.6 how about this from OPB?

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/36gpi32mfastest.png



Copy Waza != CDT(-IV) tweak, you could say that the CDT tweak is a more advanced Copy Waza though.


PLEASE DON'T Bullshi(f)ting me elmor.....DO you want me to show you a 12.29m 32M at 3.6GHz right now and I'll tell you that it was done with MY tweak?....Do you?.......It's VERY EASY you know......I will run the 32M at 3800MHz and after the resault is out and I'm ready to screen capture it, I'll DOWNGRADE my CPU frequency via clockgen/setfsb to show me 3597MHz and YOU ARE READY.....12.29m.....THAT SIMPLE.....;)

EDIT: You must be dreaming or so IF you think that DDR2 (as OPB 32M above) can beat DDR3.....NO WAY.... ;)

We NEED "neutral" users to test and report back......;) :)

[elmor]

@ elmor: DON'T say please that the "his" previus tweak works coz IF it DID worked as you claim, you could have BEATEN Gautam's 32M........No?...... ;)

And why is that? I have still not done enough testing with the two tweaks I got from him so I can't say anything about that. I'm just saying that OPB has shown us a tweak that may very well be the cause or atleast a part of his very good results. If he had this by then or not I can't say but regarding if he had this tweak back then or not I'd say that if you continue to say that his SuperPi-scores are fake then you're just being stubborn and not seeing the facts. Another thing that was "against" OPB when he first was accused was that he got a better time at lower clocks. How about he had to lower those clocks to be able to keep the system stable while doing all this copying? ;)


PLEASE DON'T Bullshi(f)ting me elmor.....DO you want me to show you a 12.29m 32M at 3.6GHz right now and I'll tell you that it was done with MY tweak?....Do you?.......It's VERY EASY you know......Run the 32M at 3800MHz and after the resault is out and I'm ready to screen capture it, I DOWNGRADE my CPU frequency via clockgen/setfsb so to show me 3597 and YOU ARE READY.....;)

We NEED "neutral" users to test and report back......;) :)

I'm sorry but if you are unable to believe that this tweak actually works that is your problem, but if you're gonna keep bashing I don't see any point in your posts in this thread. We have already had "neutral" users reporting gains and keep in mind that these users don't know exactly how this tweak works and how to squeeze the max out of it. The steps I wrote was how I did it, not nessicerily how it is done for maximum gain.

[kemo]

And why is that? I have still not done enough testing with the two tweaks I got from him so I can't say anything about that. I'm just saying that OPB has shown us a tweak that may very well be the cause or atleast a part of his very good results. If he had this by then or not I can't say but regarding if he had this tweak back then or not I'd say that if you continue to say that his SuperPi-scores are fake then you're just being stubborn and not seeing the facts. Another thing that was "against" OPB when he first was accused was that he got a better time at lower clocks. How about he had to lower those clocks to be able to keep the system stable while doing all this copying? ;)



I'm sorry but if you are unable to believe that this tweak actually works that is your problem, but if you're gonna keep bashing I don't see any point in your posts in this thread. We have already had "neutral" users reporting gains and keep in mind that these users don't know exactly how this tweak works and how to squeeze the max out of it. The steps I wrote was how I did it, not nessicerily how it is done for maximum gain.
Actually you are unable to read , he is saying master copy-waza first then compare it to that OPB tweak ,,, plain simple ,,,, best thing is to ask Fredy-san to test it as no one can question his skill and credibility

[elmor]

Actually you are unable to read , he is saying master copy-waza first then compare it to that OPB tweak ,,, plain simple ,,,, best thing is to ask Fredy-san to test it as no one can question his skill and credibility

I'm saying that this tweak is already proven to work. I will try his method when I get the chance.

[kemo]

I'm saying that this tweak is already proven to work. I will try his method when I get the chance.
Yes it is proven to work but is it much better than copy-waza !!!!!!!! prove it ...

[hipro5]

This is by elmor:

This tweak definitely works!

Pics up soon.

edit:

System specs, just straight boot didn't editing any timings:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/sysspecs.jpg

Then just run without cw/cdt:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/nocw.jpg

And with the previous OPB CDT I learned from him:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/cdt.jpg

Now, how about with this new OPB CDT-IV tweak:
http://bandwidth.se/imgs/1/74/opbcdt.jpg


Wow, how about that? I just shaved of 16 seconds of a SPI 32M round!

I'll explain exactly how I did it as some have some trouble understandning how to do this tweak.

First you will need to set your maxmem to 600 (I used 620 which worked good aswell, though I belive the file 600+32MB is 600MB = avaliable ram and the extra 32MB is because of pi 32M calculation, am I right Kevin?) and also I believe it is very important to have a 512-512MB big pagefile on the SPI-partition (D: in my and Kevins case). Ok, now the instructions:

1. I created 1x 632mb file using the command "fsutil file createnew D:\myfile 647168000" (1000*1024*632) for a file of exactly 632MB.
2. Then I put it in a RAR-archive with the Store Compression method for no compression.
3. After that I renamed it to myfile2 and then myfile3 and after each rename add it to the RAR-archive with the Store option so that you get a 1896MB big RAR-archive.
4. Then I transfered it to my benchdisk with an USB flashdisk (I created the file on my laptop) and put it on SPI-partition (D:\file.rar).
5. Now you start SPI and select 32M calculation and press OK, but don't press OK to start it, let it wait there.
6. After that you copy it three times to C:\file.rar and the two other times you have to overwrite of course.
7. Next you copy D:\file.rar to any folder on D:\, for me it was D:\cw\, three times just like you did to C:\ before.
8. Now, as Kevin says, to balance it you copy the file C:\file.rar to D:\file.rar and overwrite it. I did it three times and I saw the ammount Avaliable memory raise each time.
9. Now you can close the Taskmanager if you had it open for monitoring and all the other windows not related to SPI and now you can start your calculation!

Hope this writeup helps you understand Kevins outstanding tweak better, I can only imagine what it takes to be able to find this tweak out.

BTW, I didn't get the Avaliable memory and System cache balanced so System cache was about 2MB more. If I can get those two balanced maybe even more gain is possible.


Please remove that last part, it might be bugged. (the last pic)


Helloooo........elmor......How come and you gained about 20sec out of it?..... :D

[elmor]

Helloooo........elmor......How come and you gained about 20sec out of it?..... :D

That part was removed already, I am currently doing new tests to confirm this.

[hipro5]

@Hipro, what if he would video tape the 32M booting straight at 3.6G , would you finally believe it? i hope you wouldn't claim for windows speed hacking tool hidding in the task manager :P


@Xavier, lol xDD ;)

HA, HA, HA......From OPB I expect EVERYTHING....Even hiden speed hacking..... :rofl:

ONLY "neutral" users please.....Thanks......:)

[elmor]

BTW, I forgot to write down that you have to wait until Avaliable memory has stopped raising before closing the task manager and starting the calculation if someone didn't get that.

[NiCKE^]

HA, HA, HA......From OPB I expect EVERYTHING....Even hiden speed hacking..... :rofl:

ONLY "neutral" users please.....Thanks......:)

From a man of your age you're very childish indeed.

[BenchZowner]

Guys...those 16 seconds that you've got down elmor... hmm
Sad to say that, but could be done just by copy wazza.

Here's a test from the past:

No tweaks at all
http://i17.tinypic.com/4yp361u.jpg

Only copy wazza tweak ( no priority, no explorer, no maxmem, no nopci lock, nothing, just copy wazza )
http://i8.tinypic.com/5z5n6lx.jpg

16seconds faster, sharp.

[hipro5]

Actually you are unable to read , he is saying master copy-waza first then compare it to that OPB tweak ,,, plain simple ,,,, best thing is to ask Fredy-san to test it as no one can question his skill and credibility

You think so (as for Fredyama) ?.....I think so too BUT Mr. OPB or should I say: "Mr. They can't stop me because I'm Onepagebook" (as it's written on his avatar :p: the LORD, THE CHOSEN ONE :worship: :worship: )may have a different oppinion about Japanise guys as he says in his forum that they know nothing about tweaks and things like that...... ;)

[hipro5]

From a man of your age you're very childish indeed.

Thanks... :)

[TiN_]

I don't consider this tweak seriously too, easier and faster way just to free memory with short VBS script.

http://tin.topmods.net/novbs.png
Stock run

http://tin.topmods.net/vbs3.png
running vbs script, take a look how much mem did it took.

http://tin.topmods.net/vbs.png
script self-quited, now we have optimized memory (all not used apps are swapped to pagefile, plenty of memory free now)

[hipro5]

Lol, if you run Super Pi with that acid program in the background it whill crash inmediatly, i know it cause i did several tests in the past to prove why he didn't use them,due to lack of time i wasn't able to finish it yet


so you are "neutral" in this? :D

Some other guys have shown us the opposite.....They used speed proggies and they worked OK.......PLUS they could rename them AS THEY WISH in case of showing task managger and services if you remember well....They could EVEN rename it as: svchost.exe......No?..... ;) :p:

I'm neutral for myshelf.....So IF I don't get any gain out of it and post it, "some" will say: "Ahhh....we didn't expected from you to see any gain".....
So I don't "count"...... ;)

[kemo]

You think so (as for Fredyama) ?.....I think so too BUT Mr. OPB or should I say: "Mr. They can't stop me because I'm Onepagebook" (as it's written on his avatar :p: the LORD, THE CHOSEN ONE :worship: :worship: )may have a different oppinion about Japanise guys as he says in his forum that they know nothing about tweaks and things like that...... ;)
Let him rot! Why should we care ? :ROTF: :ROTF:

[BenchZowner]

Guys...those 16 seconds that you've got down elmor... hmm
Sad to say that, but could be done just by copy wazza.

Here's a test from the past:

No tweaks at all
http://i17.tinypic.com/4yp361u.jpg

Only copy wazza tweak ( no priority, no explorer, no maxmem, no nopci lock, nothing, just copy wazza )
http://i8.tinypic.com/5z5n6lx.jpg

16seconds faster, sharp.

...expecting a not tweaked vs only CDT tweaked run with better gain than 16s ;)

[hixie]

I did a few more SPI 4M tests with my dual xeon rig, did the CDT-IV tweak i did before, and i did my own version of this tweak, final times are exactly the same.

My version "Hixie tweak ver1.0"
Step 1: Set MAXMEM to 600, and made a file 604MB large (600 as in the MAXMEM value and 4 because i'm running 4M Super Pi)
Step 2: Open up Super Pi, and select 4M, but stop that the start button.
Step 3: Open task manager, and keep copying the same 604MB file into THE SAME FOLDER, until System Cache and Available memory figures match each other.
Step 4: Close everything, and run Super Pi.

[hipro5]

I did a few more SPI 4M tests with my dual xeon rig, did the CDT-IV tweak i did before, and i did my own version of this tweak, final times are exactly the same.

My version "Hixie tweak ver1.0"
Step 1: Set MAXMEM to 600, and made a file 604MB large (600 as in the MAXMEM value and 4 because i'm running 4M Super Pi)
Step 2: Open up Super Pi, and select 4M, but stop that the start button.
Step 3: Open task manager, and keep copying the same 604MB file into THE SAME FOLDER, until System Cache and Available memory figures match each other.
Step 4: Close everything, and run Super Pi.

SO......You DIDN'T see ANY gain out of this "CDT-IV tweak"?.....
Thank you.......NEXT ONE PLEASE....:)

[Charles Wirth]

I think we need to see 1M at 5.3Ghz, this 32M stuff has large margin of error.

[hixie]

SO......You DIDN'T see ANY gain out of this "CDT-IV tweak"?.....
Thank you.......NEXT ONE PLEASE....:)

Between No tweak and CDT-IV there is a difference (quite substantial aswell), but my own version seems to do exactly the same as CDT-IV.

I'll test it again with my E6850 this time.

[massman]

I did a few more SPI 4M tests with my dual xeon rig, did the CDT-IV tweak i did before, and i did my own version of this tweak, final times are exactly the same.

My version "Hixie tweak ver1.0"
Step 1: Set MAXMEM to 600, and made a file 604MB large (600 as in the MAXMEM value and 4 because i'm running 4M Super Pi)
Step 2: Open up Super Pi, and select 4M, but stop that the start button.
Step 3: Open task manager, and keep copying the same 604MB file into THE SAME FOLDER, until System Cache and Available memory figures match each other.
Step 4: Close everything, and run Super Pi.

And what about doing it entirely how OPB described it?

By the way, running scripts and bat files might indeed be better. I've seen the Italian guys having .BAT scripts on their desktop, so I reckon they use something similar.

Maybe we should ask? :p

[hipro5]

I think we need to see 1M at 5.3Ghz, this 32M stuff has large margin of error.

On 1M you will see NOTHING at all......EVEN IF you bench it with ONLY ONE RAM MODULE (SINGLE DDR) with the same timmings as two, you'll get the EXACT SAME RESAULT....;) :p:

[hipro5]

You're wrong mate, you're not getting the point of the tweak, copy waza won't have an effect in 1M but CDT tweak WILL do, if you run it well of course...

OK......I'll test it my shelf and report back to .....myself too.... ;)
Please test yourself 1M with ONLY ONE RAM Module and with TWO (Dual)...and tell me the difference....as we are talking about bandwidth here...;)

[MaSell]

You're wrong mate, you're not getting the point of the tweak, copy waza won't have an effect in 1M but CDT tweak WILL do, if you run it well of course...

Will have effect, if you know how to do it ;)

[BeardyMan]

Copy Waza != CDT(-IV) tweak, you could say that the CDT tweak is a more advanced Copy Waza though.

Yes indeed, you could say it's a copy waza with an extra gear ;)

My findings remains the same

With just maxmem at 680 i get 29.4secs
With either copy waza or this method i go easy below 29secs.:D

For me it works so wel done :up:

[hipro5]

Yes indeed, you could say it's a copy waza with an extra gear ;)

My findings remains the same

With just maxmem at 680 i get 29.4secs
With either copy waza or this method i go easy below 29secs.:D

For me it works so wel done :up:

So by using Copy Waza OR this tweak you get the SAME resault?.... :)

[BeardyMan]

So by using Copy Waza OR this tweak you get the SAME resault?.... :)

yes, by this i get easier 28.9XX, copy waza often gives me 29.0XXsecs

However this is AMD, i remember intel being less hungry on big gains with 1 tweak.

Anyone with amd that can verify my testings?(wich killed my old 5GB hdd :D )

[v_parrello]

I made 13.812 sec. at 3.6 GHz CPU and DDR3 platform (DDR3-1864 6-5-5-12).

For me it is really hard to think about a tweak able to make a gain of 0.344 sec. in superPI 1M with DDR2-1233 5-5-4-10. It is really a big challenge, I can not figure out how this is possible. :confused:

But before to give my final opinion a I have to try if this works for me. It would be really great! :D
I do not know if I will be able to reach 13.468 sec. but for sure if the tweak works I would make better of my best 13.812 seconds.

[Enoc]

no screenies but i'll say this...a few months ago he explained part of the tweak in coolaler.com, he got it on a video, part 3-5..if a remember well...

so like 3 weeks ago with my dfi p-965s running 514x7 1:1 4-4-4-4, 3-19-2-9-9-3-7-3 boot from bios, 24/7 windows xp pro-sp2, i got 13m.17 seconds on pi...nothing tweaked...
with copywaza 1.2gb file ,realtime, large cache sytem=1, 512mb pagefile in disc d, PI on disc d, so cut and paste file D: to C: and C: to D: , got 13m and 10seconds..

with thesame as above, i took a file and made 3 folders of 650mb files,and 1 of 180mb, all pics...put the 3 650mb on a folder, and left the 180mb file alone, i first compressed the 180mb file(it's to get up the virtual memory faster), this is all on D:, after i compressed the 3 other files, after finished compressing cut it to C:, waited untill i got the best virtual memory ,system got stable...got 13m:04 seconds...

food for thought...for me is good enough..



.....It's VERY EASY you know......I will run the 32M at 3800MHz and after the resault is out and I'm ready to screen capture it, I'll DOWNGRADE my CPU frequency via clockgen/setfsb to show me 3597MHz and YOU ARE READY;)
EDIT: You must be dreaming or so IF you think that DDR2 (as OPB 32M above) can beat DDR3.....NO WAY.... ;)


as for this...i want to see you with 5:6 divider running 652mhz with his timmings 32m stable with 2.35 volts on a asus p5k deluxe....:rolleyes:

for him to be running 3800 mhz as you say he would need 542mhz fsb(652 on mem) on the
P5k deluxe, and guys with this board know how easy it is to get it a 2.35 volts :rolleyes: ...seriously Hipro let the animosity aside and accept facts...or there is a program that changes the ram volts in windows :ROTF: ? or a program that tricks aus probe and cpuz vcore report :ROTF: ?

just focus on the tweak...

[hixie]

Windows XP Pro SP2, small amount of OS tweaks, and some services disabled.
No other special tweak
time is 1m 43.157. First picture

OPB's CDT-IV with exact same OS as before.
Time is 1m 42.984. Second picture

Hixie tweak rev 1.0 (that i made up a couple hours ago at work) with exact same OS as the previous two.
Time is 1m 42.859. Third picture.

Seems like my tweak is work working better than OPB's CDT-IV ;)

[hipro5]

no screenies but i'll say this...a few months ago he explained part of the tweak in coolaler.com, he got it on a video, part 3-5..if a remember well...

so like 3 weeks ago with my dfi p-965s running 514x7 1:1 4-4-4-4, 3-19-2-9-9-3-7-3 boot from bios, 24/7 windows, i got 13m.17 seconds on pi...nothing tweaked...
with copywaza 1.2gb file ,realtime, large cache sytem=1, 512mb pagefile in disc d, PI on disc d, so cut and paste file D: to C: and C: to D: , got 13m and 10seconds..

with thesame as above, i took a file and made 3 folders of 650mb files,and 1 of 180mb, all pics...put the 3 650mb on a folder, and left the 180mb file alone, i first compressed the 180mb file(it's to get up the virtual memory faster), this is all on D:, after i compressed the 3 other files, after finished compressing cut it to C:, waited untill i got the best virtual memory ,system got stable...got 13m:04 seconds...

food for thought...for me is good enough..




as for this...i want to see you with 5:6 divider running 652mhz with his timmings 32m stable with 2.35 volts on a asus p5k deluxe....:rolleyes:

for him to be running 3800 mhz as you say he would need 542mhz fsb(652 on mem) on the
P5k deluxe, and guys with this board know how easy it is to get it a 2.35 volts :rolleyes: ...seriously Hipro let the animosity aside and accept the facts...or there is a program that changes the ram volts in windows :ROTF: ?

just focus on the tweak...

A friend of mine can have his DDR2 rams at OPBs timmings up to 1350MHz.... ;)

[massman]

Enoc and Hipro5, would you please stick to the subject, which is the tweak and use the PM function for other OPB-related discussions? Thanks ;)

Hixie: are you sure you're applying the OPB tweak correctly? It seems kinda weird that your modification works better than a tweak which has been created during months :) (N/O).

[Eldonko]

Looks to me it is similar to copy waza except it also works for 1M and it works a few s better for 32M. Whats the point in arguing about it, if you don’t believe it works or you think your tweak is better just don’t use it and move on.

[M.Beier]

I'd like more evidence on the 1M matter... If that 0,2-0,3 sec is true, well thats just amazing... and simply, too amazing...? Thats evens more then 300mhz cpu juice more on a fully clocked 1M run with C2D..?

[Misko]

First I just want to say that I do not know OPB and that I do not have nothing against him (all dough I do not have nothing against no body here or at OCX), also my personal thinking that maybe he has some special tweaks and on another hand maybe that he has not, up to day status by my opnion: He is 100&#37; clean (valid results) until someone get some proof against it.

But some things get me wondering how many different super tweaks OPB has? What about this one I do not know the name, let we call it "turbo at last iteration", as I mentioned before, generally, the time of last loop takes about 80-84% at the average time of 1-20 loops but he can take that too only 66% :eek: if he wants (like on nvidia i680)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3006/untitled1yf8.jpg

OPB result compared to "normal" one


With this (only this tweak) he can shave 5sec on ln2 or lets say around 7sec on 3.6Ghz:

Then with CDT again he can shave I do not know exact value but lets say VERY MUCH, if he can make that 1M on 3.6ghz. So if he use all his tweaks together he will be lets say half MINUTE faster then Gautam. Also he did only once that last iteration speed up, why he is not using it anymore? And he is gone from WR chasing why that if he has all knowledge and tweaks?

My proposition is that someone (best someone from Team Japan) go to OPB and sit there while OPB benchs (of course if OPB is OK with that) Team Serbia (and I think many more Teams will do the same) can give some money to that person so he can pay his trip so we finally know for 100%.

Misko

[massman]

The "turbo at last iteration" is part of the CDT tweak, I think. I remember a screenshot of one of the runs explaining that the true superpi super times can only be reached with a good last 4 loops (the so-called bonus loops).

[BeardyMan]

A friend of mine can have his DDR2 rams at OPBs timmings up to 1350MHz.... ;)
I have done it thighter then OPB at 1353Mhz :D
http://users.telenet.be/kuan/13937.JPG

srry for offtopic :D

[Misko]

The "turbo at last iteration" is part of the CDT tweak, I think. I remember a screenshot of one of the runs explaining that the true superpi super times can only be reached with a good last 4 loops (the so-called bonus loops).

hm he didn't have turbo on at some of his previous WRs (like WR on 975x):

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/32moldwr/102832mrunfinish.jpg

[hipro5]

My proposition is that someone (best someone from Team Japan) go to OPB and sit there while OPB benchs (of course if OPB is OK with that) Team Serbia (and I think many more Teams will do the same) can give some money to that person so he can pay his trip so we finally know for 100&#37;.

Misko

Just FORGET about this proposition of yours..... ;)
The same proposition was done half a year ago and HE (The LORD), din't accept it....So don't bother with this any more.... ;) :)

IF he was OK as he want's to be(?), he whould accept someone at his benching place to CLEAR things up.....All other things are just EXCUSES.....PERIOD.......;)


I'd like more evidence on the 1M matter... If that 0,2-0,3 sec is true, well thats just amazing... and simply, too amazing...? Thats evens more then 300mhz cpu juice more on a fully clocked 1M run with C2D..?

;)

[Gautam]

This bickering isn't going to get us anywhere.

eva>> what size copy-waza are you using?

I use MAXMEM=512 with a 5.2GB copy waza. I only copy the file once. The gain is about 15 seconds quite easily.

Stephen>> Conroe's are able to fit the 1M calculation in the L2 cache, which is what reduces their margin of error and makes them incomparable with AMD. The tweaks that work on AMD don't work on Conroe. We need a Conroe for a fair comparison.

However for the folks asking for 1M, I can guarantee you won't see anything there. 32M is the test of choice with Core 2's since it enlarges the effects of all tweaks much more. (PiFast does as well)

elmor>> I want to see matched settings as mine. Notice how low my FSB is. I also want to see a third party running the calculation. You've got experience running his tweak and you have the hardware to run at 400x9 2:3 4-4-4-4 I'm sure. I think most of us also would put our faith in you. Give it a run and let's see what happens...:)

[Planet]

Hipro5 what speed do you install the operating system?

[massman]

I actually have no idea when he started using the tweak (can't ask either has he ignores my pm's :D ), I can only tell what I've read at the Coolaler boards translated online (so crappy english).

Can't find the pic atm, but the superpi 32M run was divided in three parts, two of them which can only be slightly faster with tweaks, the last one (bonus round = loop 20 to 24) can be a lot faster using the CDT tweak and copy-waza.

Does anyone actually know how superpi is run by the system? At what point it uses the memory/cache/virtual memory?

@ Beardy: lower timings =/= faster. Subtimings have to be set at the correct level in order to be really efficient. Imho, a lot depends on how you set the CL and tRAS and the timings of the latency between both.

[eva2000]

I'm not taking anyone's side as from my results http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2509921&postcount=38 neither copywaza or CDT-IV give me such enormous gains compared to untweaked run...

If a person can't replicate a tweak such as CDT-IV, doesn't mean it doesn't work or is a cheat. I can't replicate any form of copywaza so doesn't mean it doesn't work heh

for copy waza i've tried all sorts of sizes from 400MB through to 2.8GB heh

[massman]

Hipro5 what speed do you install the operating system?

That's a tweak I mentioned at OCX once (the old forums, before the server crash), but no one believed me. Johnny Bravo tested it and he got the same results :cool:

[hipro5]

Hipro5 what speed do you install the operating system?

Ahhh.........I've heard of that too........and out of curiosity (maybe to get faster resaults), I have install them EVEN at 5300MHz.....NO GAIN AT ALL......Sorry..... ;)

[Gautam]

I'm not taking anyone's side as from my results http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2509921&postcount=38 neither copywaza or CDT-IV give me such enormous gains compared to untweaked run...

If a person can't replicate a tweak such as CDT-IV, doesn't mean it doesn't work or is a cheat. I can't replicate any form of copywaza so doesn't mean it doesn't work heh

for copy waza i've tried all sorts of sizes from 400MB through to 2.8GB heh

Note that 5.2>2.8. :cool:

[BeardyMan]

T

Stephen>> Conroe's are able to fit the 1M calculation in the L2 cache, which is what reduces their margin of error and makes them incomparable with AMD. The tweaks that work on AMD don't work on Conroe. We need a Conroe for a fair comparison.


Makes sense yes :)

this run (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/canny/3600_1M_13.859.png) made by GHZ's has been done at same dividers but note the timings used ;)
I'm sure that's a well tweaked system, so the tweak should pull of a fully 0.3secs then if applied well.
I would like to test it but i'm on a AMD rig :)
so any volenteers like gautam suggested :D

[Misko]

Just FORGET about this proposition of yours..... ;)
The same proposition was done half a year ago and HE (The LORD), din't accept it....So don't bother with this any more.... ;) :)

IF he was OK as he want's to be(?), he whould accept someone at his benching place to CLEAR things up.....All other things are just EXCUSES.....PERIOD.......;)

;)

:) Didn't now for that one, but I do not see anything wrong with that proposition. I just see fredyama like to travel a lot :) so he would be perfect person for that one.

[BeardyMan]

I

@ Beardy: lower timings =/= faster. Subtimings have to be set at the correct level in order to be really efficient. Imho, a lot depends on how you set the CL and tRAS and the timings of the latency between both.

I think it's obvious wich subtimings are the most thights ;) :D it's there to compare lol :p:

[massman]

I think it's obvious wich subtimings are the most thights ;) :D it's there to compare lol :p:

Note how I say that it's not about which timings are the tightest ;). You're subs might be tighter, they will not be faster in se.

Back on the tweak, I presume testing should be done, but correctly. By the way, difference between Server03 and XP?

[elmor]

elmor>> I want to see matched settings as mine. Notice how low my FSB is. I also want to see a third party running the calculation. You've got experience running his tweak and you have the hardware to run at 400x9 2:3 4-4-4-4 I'm sure. I think most of us also would put our faith in you. Give it a run and let's see what happens...:)

The thing is I don't. I might have a E6750 (this one is stuck at 400mhz fsb) that can do atleast 450x8 later this week.

[eva2000]

Note that 5.2>2.8. :cool:
hmm tried 3.7GB was 2 seconds slower HA HA... will try larger file and see what happens

[massman]

eva: how 'stock' is your system when it's installed? I've seen you posting a thread which explains how to use nlite on the i4memory forums. How much tweaks are already included in your OS when you install it?

[BenchZowner]

@eva2000:

Create a 4GB file ( WinRAR, UltraISO, anything ).
Don't use maxmem.
Open up SuperPi set the calculation, and leave it at the "Now start to calculate..." window ( waiting for you to press ok :D )
Copy the wazza file from D:\ to C:\ and then from C:\ to D:\Temp
As soon as the last copy process finishes click OK to start the calculation.

[Gautam]

The thing is I don't. I might have a E6750 (this one is stuck at 400mhz fsb) that can do atleast 450x8 later this week.
How about that other one I posted at 8x385?

I would be joining the fun but all I have is a Core Solo 1.2GHz atm so don't despair. :p: (I still have 6 gigs of cherry picked D9 tho...:D)

[BenchZowner]

I might give it a try with 1M & 32M later on, but to be honest I don't expect any changes in 1M ( still looking out for that magic trick that shove those seconds off that magic low clocks WR :p: ), as for 32M...if it shoves off some time, and it works in combination with the "regular" copy wazza as well it might be worthy.

[Eldonko]

hmm tried 3.7GB was 2 seconds slower HA HA... will try larger file and see what happensIts really weird waza isnt working for you. Have you tried waiting about 30 sec after the copy before the 32M run? Copying between partitions on root?

[eva2000]

Yeah tried various waiting intervals before hitting okay as well as different partitions on same drive .. super pi is located on main root partition C:\

[G H Z]

Ahhh.........I've heard of that too........and out of curiosity (maybe to get faster resaults), I have install them EVEN at 5300MHz.....NO GAIN AT ALL......Sorry..... ;)

Exactly, complete bollocks :up:

[elmor]

How about that other one I posted at 8x385?

I would be joining the fun but all I have is a Core Solo 1.2GHz atm so don't despair. :p: (I still have 6 gigs of cherry picked D9 tho...:D)

I'll give it a try :)

[Gautam]

Yeah tried various waiting intervals before hitting okay as well as different partitions on same drive .. super pi is located on main root partition C:\
I start the calculation immediately after the copying completes. In fact I have the window ready to go beforehand so all I do is hit OK.

[BeardyMan]

Note how I say that it's not about which timings are the tightest ;). You're subs might be tighter, they will not be faster in se.

Back on the tweak, I presume testing should be done, but correctly. By the way, difference between Server03 and XP?

if they were not faster i wouldn't have pushed them like that :):D

OFFTOPIC
What are you doing with blinds cascade?:D

[massman]

I start the calculation immediately after the copying completes. In fact I have the window ready to go beforehand so all I do is hit OK.

That's exactly what you should do :D :p:

[spainis]

Your curve hands doesn't mean that his tweak doesn't work :)

:)

[kiwi]

You don't need so large copy-waza. Maxmem +200MB or amount of RAM + 200MB should be enough :)

I am pretty busy right now but I will try this tweak (I hope I will understand every detail of it) myself as Hipro suggested.

[BeardyMan]

LOL

I just copied a few small zipped files from 1 map to another map on the same disk. And the result was also -0.4secs :D
So copying to another partition is not needed?

anyone willing to test that ;)
I'm going to see how far you can push that :D

[Bigchrome]

On AMD (S754 3400+) If I run super pi WHILE moving a large file I drop from 38.063 to 37.859 in 1M and I haven't been able to replicate that every with other tweaks....anyone on conroe want to try this?

[BeardyMan]

OPB seems to have hit the nail very good :D


http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/cdt4/03.jpg

The higher i get that systemcache the better my score lol :D
and no need at all for copying to another partition or for zipping files :D

another 0.050secs by pushing that systemcache with full litterbin :p

[mrlobber]

Well, here's my report, just as Hipro wanted here:


Could someone please test it like below:

a. without any "software tweaks" (windows tweaks) - put only ramtimmings etc. (I mean, DO LargeSystemCache=1 and Priority=Very high for Super-Pi and things like that but without CopyWaza and things like that.....Only ramtimmings etc)

b. Then do what you always do up to now with only 384MB/384MB fixed Page File and Copy Waza from one disk to another (into Super-Pi folder)......Copy Waza ~768MB and more (doesn't matter if it will be 2GB)
After Copy Waza ends copying, close Explorer from task manager, close task manager and WAIT for some seconds till the HD led STOPS blinking....When it stops blinking, start the 32M

c. Do as CDT-Tweak describes

and finaly report findings?....

System:


E6600
Asus P5K-E unmodded
2x1Gb Corsair 6400C3
Asus X850XT (drivers not installed) :D
20 GB IDE HDD


I'm by no means ar Superpi tweaker, so the first score might look like a bit shaky... whatever.

515x7, 1:1, PL7 etc, maxmem=600, no eram, plenty of services disabled, no copy-waza, no cdt.

Result: 13m24.031s
http://mrlobber.svnets.lv/Oc/32M/32M_reference.jpg

Now the same settings plus pagefile 384 Mb, copy-waza 768 GB (in task manager I observed available memory 525Mb vs system cache 540Mb before the run):

Result: 13m14.437s
http://mrlobber.svnets.lv/Oc/32M/32M_copywaza.jpg

And now CDT run... done with pagefile 512Mb exactly as elmor described:

1. I created 1x 632mb file using the command "fsutil file createnew D:\myfile 647168000" (1000*1024*632) for a file of exactly 632MB.
2. Then I put it in a RAR-archive with the Store Compression method for no compression.
3. After that I renamed it to myfile2 and then myfile3 and after each rename add it to the RAR-archive with the Store option so that you get a 1896MB big RAR-archive.
4. Then I transfered it to my benchdisk with an USB flashdisk (I created the file on my laptop) and put it on SPI-partition (D:\file.rar).
5. Now you start SPI and select 32M calculation and press OK, but don't press OK to start it, let it wait there.
6. After that you copy it three times to C:\file.rar and the two other times you have to overwrite of course.
7. Next you copy D:\file.rar to any folder on D:\, for me it was D:\cw\, three times just like you did to C:\ before.
8. Now, as Kevin says, to balance it you copy the file C:\file.rar to D:\file.rar and overwrite it. I did it three times and I saw the ammount Avaliable memory raise each time.
9. Now you can close the Taskmanager if you had it open for monitoring and all the other windows not related to SPI and now you can start your calculation!

However, I couldn't observe the available memory going closer to system cache more than it was in my 2nd run pictured above. In fact, I observed the 525Mb/540Mb situation already after I did the 1st step of CDT tweak (elmor's 6th, that is, copying that big file from D:\ to C:\), and this proportion didn't change later on, while doing all the other copying.

So, since getting these two (available memory & system cache) as close as possible seem to be the key for this tweak, it's no surprise that my "CDT run" is basically the same as the "copy-waza" run, even a little worse.

Result: 13m18.422s
http://mrlobber.svnets.lv/Oc/32M/32M_cdt.jpg

Gotta only 4hours left to sleep before going to work tomorrow :) so maybe I'll try the CDT after some 20hours once again. Things I might have done differently from elmor's run are 2 (as far as I'm aware of):
1. I calculated the "632Mb file" as 1024x1024x632 whereas elmor did 1000x1024x632
2. I used *.bat files for copying all the stuff around (you can see them on my desktop in the 3rd pic).
Elmor & other people familiar with the tweak, could you give an insight what might I have did / did not for the tweak not working for me as a result? :confused:

Edit:
3. Another subtle thing: before copying all the big files for 3 times each, I always waited a couple of seconds between the copy/replace operations. Should I have done this or should I have started the next copying immediately?

[G H Z]

The timing of this is just brilliant!

[hipro5]

Thanks mrlobber for the tests...... :)

Anyone's willing to test it as I described?....:)

Tip: You can go into Registry and change the "Windows Priority" from "2" which is default for the Win XP , to 66 (it will show you 102 finaly)....
It's under "Priority"....> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l \PriorityControl
and DON'T use the Patch of Microsoft with multicore suport....It gives you NOTHING even in 3D, makes things worse...
It's under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l \Session Manager\Memory Management\Throttle......IF you have alredy install it, then put it to "0".....
;)

[spainis]

Hipro5 maybe you can reveal your tweaks :)
And you think that they will work for everyone?

:)

[hipro5]

Hipro5 maybe you can reveal your tweaks :)
And you think that they will work for everyone?

:)

They are NOT MY tweaks......They are Japanise's ppl tweaks that they work like charm all these years - from the oldest till the latest of them -.....and YES they work for everyone...;)

[mrlobber]

I hope to be able to perform some additional tests this evening. Notice again, the idea behind CDT (at least as I see it, whichever version of it we might want to test) is to approximate available memory and system cache as close as possible. So I think it is obvious that I did something wrong in that respect since, as I already posted, I couldn't get available memory and system cache nowhere as close as others who have displayed the CDT working (and it is also obvious, that it's possible to get these two values very close, as demonstrated by various screenshots around).

Maybe I'll try what hixie posted as well :D


Step 1: Set MAXMEM to 600, and made a file 604MB large (600 as in the MAXMEM value and 4 because i'm running 4M Super Pi)
Step 2: Open up Super Pi, and select 4M, but stop that the start button.
Step 3: Open task manager, and keep copying the same 604MB file into THE SAME FOLDER, until System Cache and Available memory figures match each other.
Step 4: Close everything, and run Super Pi.

[hipro5]

Hipro, i would suggest you to try this tweak by yourself, and then you will be able to compare if and comment if it works for you

also, this is no =copy-waza, you can say it is based in it though there's a reason of why 3 files of 632Mb in the same folder, do the tweak properly and you will notice the improve ;)


saludos :)

How much of improvement shall I see....6-7-8-9 sec lower in 3.6GHz than Copy Wazza?....

[Metallica]

How much of improvement shall I see....6-7-8-9 sec lower in 3.6GHz than Copy Wazza?....

i didn't do a deep test so i couldn't say how much of a improvement you will have :)

i will compare copy-waza and CDT-IV tweak for my-self this weekend and will report :)

[eva2000]

Note that 5.2>2.8. :cool:


@eva2000:

Create a 4GB file ( WinRAR, UltraISO, anything ).
Don't use maxmem.
Open up SuperPi set the calculation, and leave it at the "Now start to calculate..." window ( waiting for you to press ok :D )
Copy the wazza file from D:\ to C:\ and then from C:\ to D:\Temp
As soon as the last copy process finishes click OK to start the calculation.

but listening to both your tips i used 3.94GB file and copywaza definitely better gain of around 2 seconds versus <1 second more consistently

bumped ram to 640mhz 5-5-4-5 but same clock speed

no tweaks
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/5_8/400-640_5545_330323_1.36875-1.36-1.69-2.38-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m12s875ms.png

just copywaza 3.94GB file copied from C: to D: and D: to C:

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/5_8/400-640_5545_330323_1.36875-1.36-1.69-2.38-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m10s985ms_copywaza.png

Going to try hipro's method as well.. didn't know about that prioritycontrol reg tweak though so let's see :)


Thanks mrlobber for the tests...... :)

Anyone's willing to test it as I described?....:)

Tip: You can go into Registry and change the "Windows Priority" from "2" which is default for the Win XP , to 66 (it will show you 102 finaly)....
It's under "Priority"....> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l \PriorityControl
and DON'T use the Patch of Microsoft with multicore suport....It gives you NOTHING even in 3D, makes things worse...
It's under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l \Session Manager\Memory Management\Throttle......IF you have alredy install it, then put it to "0".....
;)

but i can't see such an entry in PriorityControl ?? only entry is Win32PrioritySeparation ??



I start the calculation immediately after the copying completes. In fact I have the window ready to go beforehand so all I do is hit OK. times vary from a gain or loss of a few ms when i do this nothing consistent heh

[hipro5]

eva2000, WHY don't you put in msconfig "maxmem = 640" and test it...?.....

[eva2000]

never tried maxmem value of 640M before 600-615 yes but not 640.. will try it now :)

see from ya user title you have a new addiction :cool:

edit: tried maxmem 640 with 3.94GB file copy waza 0.892s faster

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Blitzformula/results/ultra120ex/E6850_L720A489/crucial/8500t6_8500nt1/9x/5_8/400-640_5545_330323_1.36875-1.36-1.69-2.38-1.125-A_sroff_x67_20mv/spi32m_13m10s093ms_copywaza_maxmem640.png

[Zeus]

Could someone please explain this tweak in proper english?

I just can't get my head around it.

Here's what i understand:

Install Spi on D partion
Make pagefile of min 512 max 512 on D partion
Set maxmem to 600 with msconfig

reboot

Create 3 folders you fill with pics or whatever until they're 632mb each
Open superPi, select size (32M in my case) leave it at "now start to calculate" dialog.

Copy each of the 632mb files into a folder that's in the SuperPi folder on partion D
Make a winrar archive of this file

Let it idle for about 45 seconds watching taskmanager until free memory matches systemcache.(Approx.)

Run SuperPi.

Did it this way but gained 0,00 i must have done something or a couple of things wrong.

[BeardyMan]

Could someone please explain this tweak in proper english?

I just can't get my head around it.

Here's what i understand:

Install Spi on D partion
Make pagefile of min 512 max 512 on D partion
Set maxmem to 600 with msconfig

reboot

Create 3 folders you fill with pics or whatever until they're 632mb each
Open superPi, select size (32M in my case) leave it at "now start to calculate" dialog.

Copy each of the 632mb files into a folder that's in the SuperPi folder on partion D
Make a winrar archive of this file

Let it idle for about 45 seconds watching taskmanager until free memory matches systemcache.(Approx.)

Run SuperPi.

Did it this way but gained 0,00 i must have done something or a couple of things wrong.
All not necessary :D

Just make a new folder on your desktop
Take a zipped filed with the size around 650mb,
copy that file into that new folder. rename it
copy the same file again, rename it
copy the file again.
the systemcache should be high now.
Run superpi :D&#181;

edit*
idleing should improve afterall ^^

[hipro5]

never tried maxmem value of 640M before 600-615 yes but not 640.. will try it now :)

see from ya user title you have a new addiction :cool:

edit: tried maxmem 640 with 3.94GB file copy waza 0.892s faster

HA, HA, HA........George you MUST have the WORST windows instalation EVER..... :D :p:

[mrlobber]

Let it idle for about 45 seconds watching taskmanager until free memory matches systemcache.(Approx.)


Did it for you? If not, it probably means you actually haven't applied the tweak, at least that's what I understand about the essence of CDT.

I personally haven't be able to match these two yet... so, consequently, no gain in Superpi.

[BeardyMan]

This is the max i could push the systemcacheperhaps if i lett it idle more i can get more out of it. Other then that it works lol:D

[eva2000]

HA, HA, HA........George you MUST have the WORST windows instalation EVER..... :D :p:
Yeah could be.. does maybe win2003 better for this ?

[andre X_X]

regular XP SP2 works ok, but dont slipstream any updates, at least it works for me

[eva2000]

regular XP SP2 works ok, but dont slipstream any updates, at least it works for me
Oh no updates better ? i'm fully updated via Ryam VM packs etc for my WinXP Pro SP2 install http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4736 heh

[massman]

This is the max i could push the systemcacheperhaps if i lett it idle more i can get more out of it. Other then that it works lol:D

Seems like you got the tweak. What's the difference with Copy-Waza?

[wa77ss]

I thought it was well known that 2003 was much better for SPI? Maybe I just took for granted that it was much better.

[wittekakker]

Everyone working with HD's it seems, why not get rid of this and get yourself a proper RAMdisk? Lot less wondering about tweaks because DRAM is so much faster then HD, and atleast everyone would actually understand what is happening instead of this "magic tweak" fairytales :D

[massman]

I thought it was well known that 2003 was much better for SPI? Maybe I just took for granted that it was much better.

For some it is, for some it ain't :).

I'd like to see some 03 vs XP results of the tweak

[cadaveca]

Ehy guys, how come noone who is testing this tweak does it jsut as it says, and has to try thier own way?

I see no max meme 632mb, I see noone takingthe exact same steps as posted in OP. I wish I had more time than to take a quick perusal of the forums...'cause I think if you follow all steps, pagefile, copywaza file size(3x632MB, rar'ed), and thin gs might work different.



so the best way is you only make it once for 632mb for instance, then copy it into the folderright? then re-name the original to othername and copy into that folder...so now your folder has how much? 1264mb? so the one remain out side the folder still 632mb right?
so rename again and "cut it and paste into that folder...
now, if you install winrar already, right click that folder, and make a whatever name of the rar file...there we go, after done...you know what to do...



I have not seen anyone do...you must rar the 3x632MB files after put into folder. The last rar will use RAM, pagefile, and windows cache, if you set all things as described, and if you use a proper blank file, when it's done, all you got is blank data left in those spaces...you wait a few minutes for windows to "right itself" form the huge file, and then bench.


So, who's the first to rar?

[eva2000]

Ehy guys, how come noone who is testing this tweak does it jsut as it says, and has to try thier own way?

I see no max meme 632mb, I see noone takingthe exact same steps as posted in OP. I wish I had more time than to take a quick perusal of the forums...'cause I think if you follow all steps, pagefile, copywaza file size(3x632MB, rar'ed), and thin gs might work different.




I have not seen anyone do...you must rar the 3x632MB files after put into folder. The last rar will use RAM, pagefile, and windows cache, if you set all things as described, and if you use a proper blank file, when it's done, all you got is blank data left in those spaces...you wait a few minutes for windows to "right itself" form the huge file, and then bench.


So, who's the first to rar?
already tried it http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2509921&postcount=38

[cadaveca]

Yes, i saw your post EVa, but you have not made all the tweaks in order. you must have maxmem, 525mb-525mb pagefile, 3x files into folder, rar, then use rar'ed file for copywaza, then bench. did you do like this, as I cannot tell which screenshot is from this...also the iwndows registry tweaks MUST be done...I cannot see un-optimized windows doing this "trick" right...

Don't gt me wrong, I do not question your posts EVAR!!!!! The respect I have for you in this regard is very large. But without showing results, I must wonder what is not right...not in what you did, but maybe in the explanation. I think I understand what is trying to be accomplished...but maybe not. lol.

I also think we are missing one part...what size of partitions are being used for C: and D: ? this will affect how well copywaza works, methinks.

[mrlobber]

Cadaveca, so did I here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2511079&postcount=121 (look at the 3rd pic).

[eva2000]

yeah made the 3 files rar'd then rar'd to a larger file but OPB stated to use 600 Maxmem and 512M fixed page file or you mean maxmem should of been 512 instead of 600 ??

not sure what you mean without showing results.. my results are in that link or you mean showing no improvements in my results ???

[hipro5]

Sorry I went out of my clothes..... Yes I know sometimes I'm an arshole......Keep on, I won't involve into this any more coz I'm not "neutral"......I'll only read your posts and findings...:shakes:

[cadaveca]

yeah made the 3 files rar'd then rar'd to a larger file but OPB stated to use 600 Maxmem and 512M fixed page file or you mean maxmem should of been 512 instead of 600 ??

not sure what you mean without showing results.. my results are in that link or you mean showing no improvements in my results ???

Yeah no improvements. If you cannot get it to work, then I'm less likely to be interested, YKWIM?

no, i tihnk all three should be 632MB...pagefile, maxmem, and ramdisk. Even the lack of ramdisk would affect scores signifigantly.


LoL. Hipro...you've been pretty damn impartial all these years..why does that change now?:rofl:

[Gautam]

XP and 2K3 are virtually equal. RAMDisks etc do not make a significant difference.

[hipro5]

LoL. Hipro...you've been pretty damn impartial all these years..why does that change now?:rofl:

This is ONLY when I hear/listen to this: "OPB" nickname and nothing more.....

[massman]

XP and 2K3 are virtually equal. RAMDisks etc do not make a significant difference.

What about the memory management system? Server03 was build for servers, so the memory management should be better than XP's, no?

[G H Z]

True but XP can mimic 2003 memory managment by changing Performance Settings. I still find 2003 to be faster in 32M - even when LSC (Large System Cache) is set on XP.

[mrlobber]

no, i tihnk all three should be 632MB...pagefile, maxmem, and ramdisk. Even the lack of ramdisk would affect scores signifigantly.


OPB clearly states pagefile should be 512Mb, maxmem=632.

[massman]

True but XP can mimic 2003 memory managment by changing Performance Settings. I still find 2003 to be faster in 32M - even when LSC (Large System Cache) is set on XP.

Mimic as in identical or close to the same performance?

[BeardyMan]

OPB clearly states pagefile should be 512Mb, maxmem=632.

What did opb say? pagefile?:D
I haven't applied that yet and already 0.8secs gain :D
Where can i do that :D

[cadaveca]

right click my computer, select properties, advanced tab, under performance button is pagefile settings.

OPB clearly states pagefile should be 512Mb, maxmem=632.

yes, but do you understand why?

[mrlobber]

yes, but do you understand why?

No :D I have some ideas but until I don't get the tweak working, I wouldn't like to comment on them.

Btw, I should correct myself, OPB said maxmem=600, 632Mb is for the files to be archived :)

[BeardyMan]

right click my computer, select properties, advanced tab, under performance button is pagefile settings.


yes, but do you understand why?

ok i will try that tomorow :D

[Misko]

XP and 2K3 are virtually equal. RAMDisks etc do not make a significant difference.

I agree with this 100%

[cadaveca]

It will make a difference if your pagefile is on ramdisk, combined with copywaza. If you run superpi from ramdisk, the time it takes to start each iterartion should be less than if the data was sourced from HDD. This effect would be compounded by higher clockspeeds...furhter added to form starting Suerpi, and using copywaza to force the PI data out, and then windows puts it back. This is why you must wait a moment before benching...for windows to "reset" itself.



you can also get some extra time by imaging entire windows install, defragged first, of course, then placing it onto fully formatted drive, and benching from that.

[Gautam]

Do some comparisons...I've done everything you mentioned and I'm summing it up into one sentence for you. Take my experience for what its worth.

[cadaveca]

I will, and I totally accept that you are right. What I don't accept is how this tweak could work. Just trying to look at every angle, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about. There's no emotion in this for me at all, just a bit of curiosity. I mean really, that's a real complicated bit of mumbo-jumbo...WTF would someone do that?

[Gautam]

Same...I wish I could try it but I can't right now. It seems to me like it has some effect, but its just a variation on copy-waza, one of many variations.

[cadaveca]

yeah, but if you can get it right, you might end up with nothing but superpi in pagefile, windows vmem cache, and ram. I can understand how this may prove beneficial, and it also could expalin why some iterations are faster than others...it would depend on where windows sourced the data from. There's no waya 32MB run is all gonna come from cpu cache...and it really wouldn't run the same on AMD, for sure.

[Onepagebook]

I do apologize that all these make several friends confused. However, if Elmor can try to pick up my "broken English" and reserch in depth, I don't see why some inteligent overclockers who just try to be picky on my writen English on my own thought whih I did NOT give any permission to anyone posting here and get this huge deabate?
Regardless if this is just a variation or one of many variations of copy waza, you have no RIGHT to critize my work like that. Gautam, you have no idea what did you do. Moreover, by showing that "not so brilliant 3.6g 32m run" , I sincerely suggest you go deep to get some improvement then post later.
Again what massman post here is not even express the whole CDT-IV from my own, that's merely just the quick explanation from the MSN conversation between I and one of my OCX members , Kain, and I thought I could forget that very soon , so I post immediately at coolaler's forum. Also, I have no idea why this post can be post here without having my permission?

Let 's not talking about any tweak or OS, let me invite you for taking this challenge Gautam, would you please match this run? not a competition or so, I am just talking about the raw power of memory subtimings;)
That 's all for now, I appreciate Fugger call me lastnight and being very nice to me. So long everyone.
Thanks for those who always support me.:)
I won't be back here and post until my name is cleared up here in public.:)

http://www.ocxtreme.org/opb/notweak36gspi1m.png

[Morais]

w00t :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Gautam]

a) I don't have any hardware on hand.

b) As I've clearly said, I want to see a third party's times, not yours.

[Vapor]

OPB, 49500pp at 3600 and with <600MHz DDR2 just isn't possible with Conroe/Kentsfield....heck, it's BARELY possible with DDR3 clocked sky-high.

Not only that, but here's a 48444pp you tried to pass off as the 36GP WR before:
http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07426/36gpi1mfastest.jpg
That ^^^ is frankly impossible...

This tweak may be worth a few seconds on 32M, which is great...thank you for sharing. However, let's call a spade a spade and acknowledge what scores are impossible at the claimed clocks.

[BenchZowner]

I didn't want to post this but some of the last posts, and the way somebody expressed himself here, I'm gonna get cheeky.

No screenshots and sh1te, wanna clear things up ?
Instructions for a reproducable tweak that shove of those ms for the superpi, not the best product score one, let's take the 8.91s result this time.
5550MHz C2D scoring 8.91s on 1M.

Scores from very good SuperPi benchers at the same frequency are like...hmm
9.11s @ 5548MHz... , 9.09 @ 5552MHz...
Now...a 5914MHz C2D of another well-known bencher ( a very respected one ;) ) scored 8.563s ... a 5728MHz C2D from another well-known bencher scored 8.938s

Give us a tweak that shoves up 200ms on 1M ( by itself ), because all the known tweaks have been used :)

[Onepagebook]

a) I don't have any hardware on hand.

b) As I've clearly said, I want to see a third party's times, not yours.

so if you don't have anything on hand, then you better be quiet then
as I have clearly said , I want you take the challenge, so I don't care if you have hardware or not, just yes or no you can take that.;)

vapor, there is NONE of your business, so don't even jump up into this , and BTW, don't even show me your lously calculation about that again, I don't think that can be any efficient for upcoming 45nm cpu onto any pi calculation anymore..:)

[Onepagebook]

I didn't want to post this but some of the last posts, and the way somebody expressed himself here, I'm gonna get cheeky.

No screenshots and sh1te, wanna clear things up ?
Instructions for a reproducable tweak that shove of those ms for the superpi, not the best product score one, let's take the 8.91s result this time.
5550MHz C2D scoring 8.91s on 1M.

Scores from very good SuperPi benchers at the same frequency are like...hmm
9.11s @ 5548MHz... , 9.09 @ 5552MHz...
Now...a 5914MHz C2D of another well-known bencher ( a very respected one ;) ) scored 8.563s ... a 5728MHz C2D from another well-known bencher scored 8.938s

Give us a tweak that shoves up 200ms on 1M ( by itself ), because all the known tweaks have been used :)

why your English is so bad I can't even understand what you're talking about then? None of your business either, even fugger gave me respect when he call me, what do you dare to post like that?;)

[Onepagebook]

if you guys keep this attitude, , I am sorry that , I will ask fugger just delete my account, I won't be back to here and say anymore. Sad, this place is still like something discrimination forum huh? very good.hahaha

[BenchZowner]

I don't think that it's too hard to understand what I've posted, looks like "I don't like this question, I'm gonna ignore it" to me ;)

As for the "none of your business part", well if you're going to react like that, why bother posting in here ?
I guess it all comes down to who you'd like to listen & talk to.

As for the last two sentences of your post:
1) Fugger told me that, said so, did so... with all due respect to Charles, this doesn't mean anything.
People respected Bush, does that indicate or even prove that he wasn't/isn't involved into nasty stuff ? Nope.

2) What do I dare to post like that ?
Who am I talking to ? You're not God, are you ?

friendly as always,
BZ

[Onepagebook]

I don't think that it's too hard to understand what I've posted, looks like "I don't like this question, I'm gonna ignore it" to me ;)

As for the "none of your business part", well if you're going to react like that, why bother posting in here ?
I guess it all comes down to who you'd like to listen & talk to.

As for the last two sentences of your post:
1) Fugger told me that, said so, did so... with all due respect to Charles, this doesn't mean anything.
People respected Bush, does that indicate or even prove that he wasn't/isn't involved into nasty stuff ? Nope.

2) What do I dare to post like that ?
Who am I talking to ? You're not God, are you ?

friendly as always,
BZ


oh I am not god compare with you then, so why bother to listen to you then, I see and read enough for your post just try to stir things worse;)

[Vapor]

vapor, there is NONE of your business, so don't even jump up into this , and BTW, don't even show me your lously calculation about that again, I don't think that can be any efficient for upcoming 45nm cpu onto any pi calculation anymore..:)Penryns already have a known 'good' performance product of roughly 45000. Barcelonas have one at around 70k. K8s have one at like 75k IIRC. Conroe/Kentsfield/DDR2 of just over 50k.

Each processor has a difference performance level, and the performance product is a VERY easy way to describe that.

Anybody cheating is everyone's business. It's unacceptable. The scores you've gotten are just not possible...

No discrimination here...your scores are just not possible. You're not a victim, you're the one who is trying to pass off 'WR' scores that are not possible.


This CDT tweak is good for a few seconds on 32M, it does not 'clear your name' as it still isn't coming close to the performance your scores claim to have.

[Gautam]

This is the best I've ever done at 3600MHz Kevin.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gautamb/3607_13828.PNG

If you're willing to divulge whatever it is that you're doing leading to such fast times, I, and surely everyone else here are all ears.

[Onepagebook]

edited

[Onepagebook]

This is the best I've ever done at 3600MHz Kevin.

sorry about del your screeny

If you're willing to divulge whatever it is that you're doing leading to such fast times, I, and surely everyone else here are all ears.


I think I am done with that. I will let fugger knows that I just could not do as what I and him said which is about what we think the best way to do,

I have been doing my best try to explain and everythiny turns like I am like :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana: . so ya, I think I am done for that.;)

[Gautam]

Okay, as you wish. Is there anything else you'd like to see in this discussion?

[Onepagebook]

OPB, 49500pp at 3600 and with <600MHz DDR2 just isn't possible with Conroe/Kentsfield....heck, it's BARELY possible with DDR3 clocked sky-high.

Not only that, but here's a 48444pp you tried to pass off as the 36GP WR before:
http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07426/36gpi1mfastest.jpg
That ^^^ is frankly impossible...

This tweak may be worth a few seconds on 32M, which is great...thank you for sharing. However, let's call a spade a spade and acknowledge what scores are impossible at the claimed clocks.

did you ask my permission to use that screeny? I mean not post , but you copy the picture and re-upload to your space, is that considered as stealing?

[Charles Wirth]

Kevin thanks for posting.

Everyone else,
Please keep it civil, I want to see this worked out. I have been in orientation for 8 hours today and I cannot think straight atm. I will be home tomorrow to read up as I need to catch up.

Thanks

[Onepagebook]

Kevin thanks for posting.

Everyone else,
Please keep it civil, I want to see this worked out. I have been in orientation for 8 hours today and I cannot think straight atm. I will be home tomorrow to read up as I need to catch up.

Thanks

Certainly Sir, that's what I promise you lastnight, however, not what I would like to say thinkgs beyond my business. I just don't want your great co-admin jump up from nowhere and point the finger to me like that which is lot more different than what we discuss on the phone last night.

I highly appreciate that your input here and take care everything.:)

[Vapor]

did you ask my permission to use that screeny? I mean not post , but you copy the picture and re-upload to your space, is that considered as stealing?I did not upload/transfer it...member Final1977 has posted exactly that on XS in a thread that's since been removed. He was wondering if it was legit. There was also a ludicrous 32M screenshot in the same post.

Back to my original point....you're not a victim here, for the longest time you've posted screenshots of SuperPi runs that are just not possible. When asked how you did it, or if you can back it up, or ANYTHING like that, you throw a hissy fit (like now).

This CDT tweak is worth a few seconds in 32M, maybe .016s in 1M...it does not 'clear your name' in the slightest since it's frankly not good enough to account for the performance boost required to achieve your 'WR' scores.

[Onepagebook]

I did not upload/transfer it...member Final1977 has posted exactly that on XS in a thread that's since been removed. He was wondering if it was legit. There was also a ludicrous 32M screenshot in the same post.

Back to my original point....you're not a victim here, for the longest time you've posted screenshots of SuperPi runs that are just not possible. When asked how you did it, or if you can back it up, or ANYTHING like that, you throw a hissy fit (like now).

This CDT tweak is worth a few seconds in 32M, maybe .016s in 1M...it does not 'clear your name' in the slightest since it's frankly not good enough to account for the performance boost required to achieve your 'WR' scores.


oh then I feel bad for you if you think that;s impossible or whatever. just like why OSU can beat umich...sad, just take the loss;)
sounds like back to 199x year...what did umich said.." there is no possibility that OSU can beat umich, cuz history said so , then don't even think about 3 in a row by same quarterback.." well then what happened? you ARE SO pathetic, buddy;)

[Vapor]

oh then I feel bad for you if you think that;s impossible or whatever.Then prove it's possible...that's what we're ALL waiting for. Your scores are so far out of line that it's one of two things: a cheat or a massive tweak. At this point, you have too many scores WAY out of line to be a 'bug.'

FWIW, you have yet to show us a name-clearing massive tweak (CDT is not massive...at all) and it's been a year....that's why everyone is defaulting on you having cheated. Your results, your defense, and your reactions speak volumes about how these scores were achieved.

[Onepagebook]

Then prove it's possible...that's what we're ALL waiting for. Your scores are so far out of line that it's one of two things: a cheat or a massive tweak. At this point, you have too many scores WAY out of line to be a 'bug.'

FWIW, you have yet to show us a name-clearing massive tweak (CDT is not massive...at all) and it's been a year....that's why everyone is defaulting on you having cheated. Your results, your defense, and your reactions speak volumes about how these scores were achieved.

oh I donn't need to if this is just your own trick to lead me show my tweak, sorry and ya, I forgot to tell you. if people are think they wanna know what and how I have been study in this charming calculation, they will go to OCX and discuss it. because they are sick of the person like you and of course some fanboy-ism here. XS is NOT like ..let say 5 years ago? what's the reason behind this...ROFL:rofl:

[G H Z]

It seems to me that some recent posts in this thread violate forum rules, ie flaming. Can someone please take out the trash? :D

[s7e9h3n]

Everyone here should just take a deep breath and stop taking everything so seriously. In OPB's defense, he shared one of his tweaks which benefits him in his SPI runs. They may or may not help everyone, but seemingly it's effective for some. This is a discussion about the validity of this tweak, not a debate regarding OPB's history. If the tweak helps some people here, then great. If it doesn't, then so-be-it. TBH, if it was anybody besides OPB who offered this tweak, people would be applauding the person's attempt rather than criticizing his character.....

BTW, I'm not sure if everyone's aware of this, but OPB owns an RAM EEPROM programmer which allows him to change almost all of the 100+ subtimings which most of us will never see. This could partially explain why some of his runs seem unusually fast for such relaxed primary timings.

[Vapor]

Ugh, I'm not trying to trick you Kev. I don't really care what the tweak is, but at this point, it's your last bastion of hope to clear your name....you REALLY should care. At least try to publicly prove your scores are legit...you've managed to talk your way out of backing up your out-of-line scores 100&#37; of the time.

No one at OCX can even come close to replicating your scores either...no one anywhere in the world can. And every time someone challenges your clock-for-clock performance, you do exactly what you're doing now...trying to talk your way out of it with no real effort to truly vindicate yourself.

If you actually do have a tweak that can clear your name, why don't you share it with FUGGER and have him replicate your performance products. Or s7e9h3n (who unfortunately doesn't run Intel :()...or k|ngp|n, or Hipro, or any of Team Japan...or any other legend, one that you feel comfortable with.

[Onepagebook]

Ugh, I'm not trying to trick you Kev. I don't really care what the tweak is, but at this point, it's your last bastion of hope to clear your name....you REALLY should care. At least try to publicly prove your scores are legit...you've managed to talk your way out of backing up your out-of-line scores 100% of the time.

No one at OCX can even come close to replicating your scores either...no one anywhere in the world can. And every time someone challenges your clock-for-clock performance, you do exactly what you're doing now...trying to talk your way out of it with no real effort to truly vindicate yourself.

If you actually do have a tweak that can clear your name, why don't you share it with FUGGER and have him replicate your performance products. Or s7e9h3n (who unfortunately doesn't run Intel :()...or k|ngp|n, or Hipro, or any of Team Japan...or any other legend, one that you feel comfortable with.


why I don't because you guys see team JP as a Team JP no doubt and whatever they post is priceless, BUT you guys see me as garbage..so that's why I don't want even give a try to post @ here. you see what S7e9h3n try to talk? you just don't get it do you?
no one can achieve? so you think elmor is a cheater as well? what a blind admin here:)

[Gautam]

elmor is an extremely skilled bencher who has my highest degree of respect. I do not see how that is relevant.

Team Japan has a couple of virtues on their side...modesty, respectfulness, and a willingness to answer any question that is asked of them as thoroughly as possible.

[hipro5]

BTW, I'm not sure if everyone's aware of this, but OPB owns an RAM EEPROM programmer which allows him to change almost all of the 100+ subtimings which most of us will never see. This could partially explain why some of his runs seem unusually fast for such relaxed primary timings.

I got one too....so what?..... ;)

I will not "debate" in this conversation - for the time been - I will only read..... :)

[Vapor]

OPB, no one is questioning any plausible results. Team Japan pushes the limits of clockspeed and overall hardware speed and achieves their results with amazing clockspeed and tried-and-true tweaking we've all learned from them.

Yours are beyond implausible, they're impossible. It's nothing about you, it's your scores, your defense, and your reactions.

Speaking of defense and reactions...Gautam has a good point about the way Team Japan conducts themselves. They're extraordinarily helpful and willing to share what they know and have honor in their scores and their hard work. We don't see this from you...plain and simple.

s7e9h3n has a good point...we are off topic, this thread was a thread about a good tweak that you came up with. Though the fact that you came back to XS and in this thread posted "I won't be back here and post until my name is cleared up here in public." and expect CDT-IV to clear your name brought all this up. While it's a good tweak, it's not nearly that good. And only you can clear your name...it doesn't happen on its own.

And no, subtimings will not change SuperPi times nearly enough to compensate for your totally out-of-line scores. Heck, primary timings don't even do THAT much.

elmor has not come close to replicating your 'WR' 1M times/performance products from a year ago, or the 49500 in this thread, or the 48444pp in this thread....no one has. He is a great bencher and deserves our respect, but frankly, he has nothing to do with this. Your scores are really and truly out of line and you're the only one who knows how they happened....

Again, this is an opportunity for you to try to make an effort to prove your scores are legit....

[KiD0M4N]

Though I risk getting banned for saying this, but I don't understand one thing. Is it "required" to post how you got a good score to be consider legit? I mean, its his tweak, his score... and common, scores keep falling every other day.

Consider this tweak in question. He came up with it right? No one before that thought of something like this... but he did. Why do we assume he stopped there? And why should he give away his prize tweaks in public when people are flaming him left/right/and center.

I believe, in all entirety, that him posting this tweak proves what he is capable. Forcing him to divulge other tweaks to "clear" his name is just not done. How do you know he doesn't have 10 such tricks which in their own self give around 0.1->0.05s advantage, but when done together by a pro, would give the advantage we see in OPB's score.

OPB, all respect to you.


OPB, no one is questioning any plausible results. Team Japan pushes the limits of clockspeed and overall hardware speed and achieves their results with amazing clockspeed and tried-and-true tweaking we've all learned from them.

Yours are beyond implausible, they're impossible. It's nothing about you, it's your scores, your defense, and your reactions.

Speaking of defense and reactions...Gautam has a good point about the way Team Japan conducts themselves. They're extraordinarily helpful and willing to share what they know and have honor in their scores and their hard work. We don't see this from you...plain and simple.

s7e9h3n has a good point...we are off topic, this thread was a thread about a good tweak that you came up with. Though the fact that you came back to XS and in this thread posted "I won't be back here and post until my name is cleared up here in public." and expect CDT-IV to clear your name brought all this up. While it's a good tweak, it's not nearly that good. And only you can clear your name...it doesn't happen on its own.

And no, subtimings will not change SuperPi times nearly enough to compensate for your totally out-of-line scores. Heck, primary timings don't even do THAT much.

elmor has not come close to replicating your 'WR' 1M times/performance products from a year ago, or the 49500 in this thread, or the 48444pp in this thread....no one has. He is a great bencher and deserves our respect, but frankly, he has nothing to do with this. Your scores are really and truly out of line and you're the only one who knows how they happened....

Again, this is an opportunity for you to try to make an effort to prove your scores are legit....

[Gautam]

You're not risking being banned. :cool:

The issue with OPB's scores in particular is that they are statistically inconsistent not only with other scores but also with themselves. By which I mean, it takes others several hundred MHz higher to match him. Such gains are too large too be readily explained by any sort of tweaking. However at the very least we wish to get some sort of confirmation that it is indeed a tweak or a group of tweaks that are responsible...and even that we haven't received yet.

In fact, any request for an explanation is usually met with nothing but flames on OPB's part.

[Nosfer@tu]

Well benching depends on What you can make your hardware run.

Lets take a theory, I make ALL my hardware run at the same speeds as KINC or Hipro5. My Scores just cant mach theirs.

I suck at benching, But when you acheave the same speeds other people or even Kinc and Hipr05 will help you.
they migth not give you ALL the tweaks, but at somepoint they will get feed up with being faster than you just because of a tweak..

Ergo if you are faster because of a secret tweak it migth as well be cheating.
We all know it is possible to cheat. and alot has been busted cheating.

But it is not cheating, it is just a tweak yes :)?
I dont think so, but I would be borred if I was the fastest in the world, NOT because of my skill with benching and geeting my hardware to run the fastest. But because of a tweak :(

[Vapor]

Though I risk getting banned for saying this, but I don't understand one thing. Is it "required" to post how you got a good score to be consider legit? I mean, its his tweak, his score... and common, scores keep falling every other day.

Consider this tweak in question. He came up with it right? No one before that thought of something like this... but he did. Why do we assume he stopped there? And why should he give away his prize tweaks in public when people are flaming him left/right/and center.

I believe, in all entirety, that him posting this tweak proves what he is capable. Forcing him to divulge other tweaks to "clear" his name is just not done. How do you know he doesn't have 10 such tricks which in their own self give around 0.1->0.05s advantage, but when done together by a pro, would give the advantage we see in OPB's score.

OPB, all respect to you.These scores are very out-of-line. That is a fact...

When a score is so, SO far out of line...on a benchmark that SO many people run and get extremely predictable scores based on hardware settings...it raises a few serious questions. The fact that this is OPB means that the scores weren't immediately dismissed. Almost anybody else, and they would have been immediately dismissed and blackballed from the community. We gave OPB his time.

In fact, it's been a year.

In fact, he never once even made claim that his scores were so great clock-for-clock, perhaps not realizing it. Even now, calling the performance product lousy, it doesn't instill confidence that he understands what the performance product can mathematically show about a score. It shows that his scores are great. So great that no one else has come within a mile of achieving them.

Let's repeat this: his scores are seriously out-of-line with ALL existing scores. No scores that are so far above what others have done can be accepted at face value, that'd be a disservice to the OC community. Regardless of who achieves them.

Not only have we not learned of a tweak (even after a year) that can come close to giving this kind of performance, we haven't even gotten a hint of one. We've gotten nothing but hissy fits, topic changes, and flames from OPB when asked for an explanation.

In all respect, KiD0M4N, but this CDT-IV tweak is nowhere near effective enough to account for but a small fraction of OPB's performance advantage. This tweak is worth maybe 10-15MHz over a well-tweaked system and his performance is hundreds of MHz ahead. This is not something we can just 'accept.'

[KiD0M4N]

You're not risking being banned. :cool:

The issue with OPB's scores in particular is that they are statistically inconsistent not only with other scores but also with themselves. By which I mean, it takes others several hundred MHz higher to match him. Such gains are too large too be readily explained by any sort of tweaking. However at the very least we wish to get some sort of confirmation that it is indeed a tweak or a group of tweaks that are responsible...and even that we haven't received yet.

In fact, any request for an explanation is usually met with nothing but flames on OPB's part.

Hi Gautam,

Thats cool to know :D

I agree, some sort of nod or acknowledgment from OPB's side that these are indeed tweaks (hardware software, etc) which gives him the advantage would make everyone a lot more comfortable. I agree, statistically, his "performance level" falls higher (in the opposite sense) than others... but thats how the rule of percentile works right? The top rankers in any IQ test are usually a grade above the rest of the crowd. That kind of a high score doesn't make their score invalid... just that they are better at what they do (in this case Spi benching) that the rest of the people.

Also, consider that FUGGER wants this matter cleared up... he must be convinced there is truth in OPB and therefore he still converses with him and tries to get him back on the forum. I am sure he didn't want to invite him to continue the flaming.

Also sometimes I see a slight bias here... the tone of some people suggests that they simply cannot digest that OPB can get such good scores... they will say anything, go to any extent to discredit him just for the heck of it.

All said and done, :shocked: :eek: at 13.4 from < 3.6GHZ!!!!! Best I have done is a 13.89s with 3-3-2 timings on 975x on a 4MB C2D!

[Onepagebook]

You're not risking being banned. :cool:

The issue with OPB's scores in particular is that they are statistically inconsistent not only with other scores but also with themselves. By which I mean, it takes others several hundred MHz higher to match him. Such gains are too large too be readily explained by any sort of tweaking. However at the very least we wish to get some sort of confirmation that it is indeed a tweak or a group of tweaks that are responsible...and even that we haven't received yet.

In fact, any request for an explanation is usually met with nothing but flames on OPB's part.

if you can understand this, I don't see why I can't, if I am a cheater with high definition..lol, would not I can't cheat with more skillful or even cheat it closer and cheat it more legit in the range of Vapor's stupid formula? so I can let the score inside of the legit range and I got WR as well;)
so that's why I said the whole thing is being set up;) wake up people;)

oh I remember about somethinglike when barry Bonds or Jordan...(of course I am NOT comparing I am like them, I am not a smart guy , far more than that) achieve some amazing milestone, they always were doubt if they take any drug..oh ya, now I understand... and is there anyone can even touch them, nope.

[TiN_]

Having

RAM EEPROM programmer
means nothing. It can't get memory chips work better than they can.
I have programmer too, EVERYBODY in this thread and XS in general can assemble it at home, it need only 5-7 cheapo parts :)

http://tin.topmods.net/spdprog.jpg - Mine one, with DDR1 connector, but this is no matter, SPD chips are equal, in DDR1 and DDR2 and DDR3.

[hipro5]

ON TOPIC......Has anyone else tested the "tweak" of this thread yet?... :)

After some testing of yours, I will give you a tweak that it'll produse better resaults on your machines.....BUT don't expect to be out of "limits/line".... ;)

[KiD0M4N]

I agree, if score were accepted on face value, then people would start getting away with a lot. However, where do we draw the line? Imagine if people started bantering all of kingpin's threads saying that "dude, this score isn't legit! show me how you did this, or else, you suckz!" Why should kingpin take this bum rap, he will cleanly show the door to the fellow.

I am sure I am not even aware of 1% of all that has happened over the year with OPB because I am sure a hell lot must hv gone down in XIP forums before this thread was allowed in public (just a wild guess.)

@Nosfer@tu: Again, we need to draw a line on whats a tweak... and whats a cheat. It is not something you can judge by following a rule book, but rather by conscience. Is it something you can do openly infront of others? Is it something someone can discover given the time and effort? Thats clean by my book.

Ok, I know I am totally n00b in this, how do you categorize the LOD tweak in 3d benchmarks? It makes the GFX look like :banana::banana::banana::banana: right, but gives good scores at the same time. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Isn't that cheating? Well again I consider it a tweak because everyone can do it and optimize it given time and effort.

Coding a small background to fudge with the system timer to get lower scores etc, well thats BLATANT cheating.

Remember, just like the different shades of gray, the extent of a tweak->cheat is very blurred.


These scores are very out-of-line. That is a fact...

When a score is so, SO far out of line...on a benchmark that SO many people run and get extremely predictable scores based on hardware settings...it raises a few serious questions. The fact that this is OPB means that the scores weren't immediately dismissed. Almost anybody else, and they would have been immediately dismissed and blackballed from the community. We gave OPB his time.

In fact, it's been a year.

In fact, he never once even made claim that his scores were so great clock-for-clock, perhaps not realizing it. Even now, calling the performance product lousy, it doesn't instill confidence that he understands what the performance product can mathematically show about a score. It shows that his scores are great. So great that no one else has come within a mile of achieving them.

Let's repeat this: his scores are seriously out-of-line with ALL existing scores. No scores that are so far above what others have done can be accepted at face value, that'd be a disservice to the OC community. Regardless of who achieves them.

Not only have we not learned of a tweak (even after a year) that can come close to giving this kind of performance, we haven't even gotten a hint of one. We've gotten nothing but hissy fits, topic changes, and flames from OPB when asked for an explanation.

In all respect, KiD0M4N, but this CDT-IV tweak is nowhere near effective enough to account for but a small fraction of OPB's performance advantage. This tweak is worth maybe 10-15MHz over a well-tweaked system and his performance is hundreds of MHz ahead. This is not something we can just 'accept.'

[Gaayam]

Ugh, I'm not trying to trick you Kev. I don't really care what the tweak is, but at this point, it's your last bastion of hope to clear your name....you REALLY should care. At least try to publicly prove your scores are legit...you've managed to talk your way out of backing up your out-of-line scores 100% of the time.

No one at OCX can even come close to replicating your scores either...no one anywhere in the world can. And every time someone challenges your clock-for-clock performance, you do exactly what you're doing now...trying to talk your way out of it with no real effort to truly vindicate yourself.

If you actually do have a tweak that can clear your name, why don't you share it with FUGGER and have him replicate your performance products. Or s7e9h3n (who unfortunately doesn't run Intel :()...or k|ngp|n, or Hipro, or any of Team Japan...or any other legend, one that you feel comfortable with.


Why do you think you have the "power" to determinate when and where OPB has the last chance to clean up his name?

[KiD0M4N]

if you can understand this, I don't see why I can't, if I am a cheater with high definition..lol, would not I can't cheat with more skillful or even cheat it closer and cheat it more legit in the range of Vapor's stupid formula? so I can let the score inside of the legit range and I got WR as well;)
so that's why I said the whole thing is being set up;) wake up people;)

oh I remember about somethinglike when barry Bonds or Jordan...(of course I am NOT comparing I am like them, I am not a smart guy , far more than that) achieve some amazing milestone, they always were doubt if they take any drug..oh ya, now I understand... and is there anyone can even touch them, nope.

Thats a very valid point... if (i am not saying you are OPB, just supposing) OPB is cheating, why didn't he play it safe and get a score out in the valid statistical stand point (say within a few 100's of the the median) and still get a WR. That way no one cribs and everythings cool?

Why would he "make" a insane score which definitely puts him in the line of fire?

[mrlobber]

Guys, could you please stop the flaming? :confused:

[hipro5]

I agree, if score were accepted on face value, then people would start getting away with a lot. However, where do we draw the line? Imagine if people started bantering all of kingpin's threads saying that "dude, this score isn't legit! show me how you did this, or else, you suckz!" Why should kingpin take this bum rap, he will cleanly show the door to the fellow.

I'll quote ONLY this....
IF someone was saying things like that for k|ngp|n, I ASURE you that HE HIMSHELF, whould call those guys to get to his benching place, with THEIR Hard disk in hands, so to put them into a SATA slot and bench again with THEIR Hard Disks to replicate the bench.....
ASK OPB to do the same..... ;)

[Jupiler]

Guys,

Charles asked you politely to keep it civil.
All some of you have done until right now is flaming and name calling.

So I'm gonna ask you all for the last time to keep it on topic and stop the flaming and name calling.
This results in absolutely nothing at all, other than the thread being locked and removed.

[zbogorgon]

every tweak OPB posted after "my topic" that should supposed to be The One, does the same thing, free more RAM, every single one of them!!!! and If those tweaks helped quite a bit on AMD64 platform, everyone here should know that is does very little on Intel C2D platform, especialy for sub 10 Superpi 1M!!!!!!

[Onepagebook]

I'll quote ONLY this....
IF someone was saying things like that for k|ngp|n, I ASURE you that HE HIMSHELF, whould call those guys to get to his benching place, with THEIR Hard disk in hands, so to put it into a SATA slot and bench again to replicate the bench.....
ASK OPB to do the same..... ;)

I can 100% do that Master:)

[Vapor]

Why do you think you have the "power" to determinate when and where OPB has the last chance to clean up his name?It's not his last chance, there is no 'last chance,' nor did I say this was his last chance...but disclosing the method is his last bastion of hope for clearing his name. It can't be a bug/fluke (too many occurences), therefore it has to be intentional...disclosing the methods is how he would do this.

And he can do it whenever/wherever he wants...if he chooses too. Now would be a good time, considering it's the topic of discussion right now.


I agree, if score were accepted on face value, then people would start getting away with a lot. However, where do we draw the line? Imagine if people started bantering all of kingpin's threads saying that "dude, this score isn't legit! show me how you did this, or else, you suckz!" Why should kingpin take this bum rap, he will cleanly show the door to the fellow.We know how these benchmarks scale...if someone posted a 3DMark score at 5GHz with cards at 1000/1000 that Hipro/KP/Shamino and others have needed 5150MHZ with cards at 1050/1100 , there'd be equal questioning. And if one of them posted the score at the insane clocks...they'd practically die trying to prove it to everyone else and protect their honor.

In this situation, OPB would have needed ~5670-5700MHz for 8.906 with his FSB/RAM settings, he got it at 5550MHz. If he had done it at 5650, we'd look at it and say: "damn that's a sick score." But he beat that by 100MHz and that wasn't even his most egregious score.

On top of all that...his performance products are all over the place and have little consistency. If this were some tweak, it'd be consistent, and therefore result in consistent performance products, but his results are far from consistent. 1M is a very consistent, nearly-untweakable benchmark.

Frankly...his responses and his defense really do speak volumes about how seriously we can take his scores. He's not even willing to seriously back them up, he just changes the subject or flames. He's mentioned he wants to clear his name, hoping CDT-IV would do it...but it's not nearly powerful enough of a tweak, and here we are anticipating some effort from him to clear his name we're not seeing it. :(

[T_M]

Awesome, i look forward to seeing pigs fly :)

[hipro5]

I can 100% do that Master:)

Heh, heh, heh.......My FIRST quote to you after.....some months?..... :D

Firstly please stop that "master" word......Everyone is a "master" of his self and noone elses..... :)

Now......Couldn't you have done that when it was asked to you some months ago?.......
OK......NEVER it's too late until it's late.....
So if you could accept someone "neutral" to your place with HIS Hard Disk in hands so you can put it into your SATA slot and then do your tweaks and get a GOOD score of - let's say - a 32M Super-Pi at 3600MHz, then IT'S FINE at least with me.....
IF the score is BETTER than ALL the other's and not just "average", I myself, will ask you sorry.... ;)

[Nosfer@tu]

__

maybe you should lisen to the mods and just edit your reply there.

[Gaayam]

Heh, heh, heh.......My FIRST quote to you after.....some months?..... :D

Firstly please stop that "master" word......Everyone is a "master" of his self and noone elses..... :)

Now......Couldn't you have done that when it was asked to you some months ago?.......
OK......NEVER it's too late until it's late.....
So if you could accept someone "neutral" to your place with HIS Hard Disk in hands so you can put it into your SATA slot and then do your tweaks and get a GOOD score of - let's say - a 32M Super-Pi at 3600MHz, then IT'S FINE at least with me.....
IF the score is BETTER that ALL the other's and not just "average", I myself, will ask you sorry.... ;)

well he is accepting your challenge, can all be calm now? admins are asking to stop flaming, please do it, (not pointing to you hipro..)

[Onepagebook]

well he is accepting your challenge, can all be calm now? admins are asking to stop flaming, please do it, (not pointing to you hipro..)

no, neither was he doing flaming nor challenge;) I think I am now sharing step by step way to a neutral person to do that already;)

the only question I have is why sata drive? can it be an IDE?:D

[Gaayam]

no, neither was he doing flaming nor challenge;) I think I am now sharing step by step way to a neutral person to do that already;)

the only question I have is why sata drive? can it be an IDE?:D


that's cool :)

8181 :D

[hipro5]

no, neither was he doing flaming nor challenge;) I think I am now sharing step by step way to a neutral person to do that already;)

the only question I have is why sata drive? can it be an IDE?:D

No problem with the HD if it's SATA or PATA...... :D

[Zeus]

Good to see things calm down a bit here and OPB is taking the opportunity to clear himself from all the mistery that's involved around him and his scores.

For OPB, i would like to say that my post somewhere in this thread was never meant to bash your English, heck mine is far from perfect so why should i be picky on yours?

It was that i just didn't fully understand it and i wanted to try this tweak but couldn't get the free mem to match the systemcache.

I'm glad to see you adjusted your attitude toward the members here, i mean, i always enjoyed the theads you posted in and teached us about memtimings and stuff like that, you ought to know i have nothing against you budddy.

Let's try to play nice, to everyone. ;)

[Onepagebook]

Good to see things calm down a bit here and OPB is taking the opportunity to clear himself from all the mistery that's involved around him and his scores.

For OPB, i would like to say that my post somewhere in this thread was never meant to bash your English, heck mine is far from perfect so why should i be picky on yours?

It was that i just didn't fully understand it and i wanted to try this tweak but couldn't get the free mem to match the systemcache.

I'm glad to see you adjusted your attitude toward the members here, i mean, i always enjoyed the theads you posted in and teached us about memtimings and stuff like that, you ought to know i have nothing against you budddy.

Let's try to play nice, to everyone. ;)


that's no problem at all, like I told Charles, IMFU and Vince (during CES 2007), I am 5 minutes temper guy. so no worries,I love to help people no matter what. I certainly remember the communication amount all the members here and I.

[before]

Don't wanna participate really and this has nothing to do with parts involved... in fact it's a bit off topic so it doesn't need to be followed.


but thats how the rule of percentile works right? The top rankers in any IQ test are usually a grade above the rest of the crowd. That kind of a high score doesn't make their score invalid...

Just to say human cognitive abilities aren't comparable that way to hardware/software functionning. :)

[Johnny Bravo]

Glad to see both sides making the effort here. Thanks guys for trying hard to keep this thread en route to the subject in hand, hopefully we can start to rebuild some bridges round here and put the past in the past

[Final1977]

OPB's CDT-iv DOES work as a tweak
but the problem is, is it possible to achieve an incredibaly fast 12min39s @ 3.6G DDR2 1230 5-5-4-5?

using opb's CDT-iv tweak, it should easily do 12min30s with DDR3 1700ish 6-5-5-15 or DDR3 2000ish 8-6-6-x last but not least,
is it possible that result is achieved at a higher clock and the clock is detuned later to 3.6G?

http://xs120.xs.to/xs120/07435/36gpi32mfastest-OPB.JPG (http://xs.to)

[Unseen]

i shaved 4,2sec by only changing from raptor to iram at 3600... think about it...

[hipro5]

i shaved 4,2sec by only changing from raptor to iram at 3600... think about it...

I saved nothing by going to iRam, but as we see on the above picture, we can easilly see that 12.55m to 12.39m on DDR2 is HUGE difference....No?.....;)

[before]

Here's my humble contribution. Purpose was to see what's the difference between CDT and another copy waza method for Spi32M.

So; I've ran 2 32M yesterday @4.8GHz (wished for better clocks but the chip is FSB bugged @about 535FSB :( ); testing conditions are basically the same (see screenshot for hardware details). Both times, available real mem was about 543k with a difference of let's say 1k which is not significant IMHO.

1) run with CDT = 10m 33s
2) run after reboot with one of my cw .zip file = 10m 29s

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/672/e6600spi32m10m29672ap8.png

Sorry for not having ran an untweaked one, but I'm quite sure it would have been slower than 10m 33s on my P5B.

To be back on topic. As it was said earlier in this thread, if CDT's really 60&#37; of an entire method; so that's logical, it works and after comparison with another cw method, it can be improved.

[Mord]

OPB's CDT-iv DOES work as a tweak
but the problem is, is it possible to achieve an incredibaly fast 12min39s @ 3.6G DDR2 1230 5-5-4-5?

using opb's CDT-iv tweak, it should easily do 12min30s with DDR3 1700ish 6-5-5-15 or DDR3 2000ish 8-6-6-x last but not least,
is it possible that result is achieved at a higher clock and the clock is detuned later to 3.6G?
Please don't post again in this thread before thinking! Admins asked to stop flaming, so please don't! This thread is already 10 pages, with no more than a few posts being really ontopic/informative/positive.

Also, you do not think someone here, or OPB himself is that stupid to claim results at lowered clocks, do you?!

OT:
I am really happy to see everything is going to normal again. We've all missed OPB, no? Thanks to Fugger, IFMU and all other who contribute to resolving the problem!

My point - No one thrashes his name for a few stupid ms in SPi. ;)

Have a nice day,
Abyss

[Morais]

My point - No one thrashes his name for a few stupid ms in SPi. ;)

I agree absolutely, why all this problems envolving a abandoned benchmark? I mean, the XS is not all about SPi, its about to be extreme.

[hipro5]

Here's my humble contribution. Purpose was to see what's the difference between CDT and another copy waza method for Spi32M.

So; I've ran 2 32M yesterday @4.8GHz (wished for better clocks but the chip is FSB bugged @about 535FSB :( ); testing conditions are basically the same (see screenshot for hardware details). Both times, available real mem was about 543k with a difference of let's say 1k which is not significant IMHO.

1) run with CDT = 10m 33s
2) run after reboot with one of my cw .zip file = 10m 29s

Sorry for not having ran an untweaked one, but I'm quite sure it would have been slower than 10m 33s on my P5B.

To be back on topic. As it was said earlier in this thread, if CDT's really 60% of an entire method; so that's logical, it works and after comparison with another cw method, it can be improved.


So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....

[aasmaukr]

I'm not going to say anyone is cheating as long as I think the score might be possible with some crazy tweaks. When I get my new HD and P5K tomorrow I'll try running the exact same subtimings and frequencies as yours together with the CDT-IV and some other tweaks and see if I can beat my own personal record @ 3,6G (which is not too good anyways :p:).

@ OPB: Did you use any other tweaks in that 13.75sec run? And could you tell me what theme you're using? Thank you :)

[before]

So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....

On one hand, that's right buddy, no magic gain, not as efficient as another cw method.
On the other hand, it was said to be 60&#37; of The method so if we believe that... what can we conclude if we don't know the remaining? :)

TBH, I prefer my method ATM... not as time consuming as 60% of CDT are, and little faster.

I was just curious.

[massman]

Before, are you using a .BAT file to do CW? :o

[M.Beier]

Im ashamed...

RAM EEPROM programmer
Is that freeware, and if not, where can I buy one...? I'd really like that, especially with my new DDR3 =)

.... Sorry for the off topic part above...

Kevin, I'd really like you to explain that neat result... I must admit, I find it obvious as fake... - I'd really like you too explain, cause, you dont admit it being fake - I really have something to learn from you if its valid... - My SPI 1M product is usually between 49800-51000, depending on ram speed and timings...

[Gaayam]

So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....

you would be pretty good as a lawyer :lol2:

[BeardyMan]

For what it's worth Kevin you got my apoligize.
You finally showed something that worked so it's all fine for me.

Those that are still on amd should try the tweak, those that are on intel should reconsider their steps in applying it.
At first i couldn't get it to work either, now i shaved of 0.8secs SPI 1M.

I have a C2D laptop but for some reason superpu won't run on it otherwise i would have proven the tweak on that system as well.

[mrlobber]

Those that are still on amd should try the tweak, those that are on intel should reconsider their steps in applying it.
At first i couldn't get it to work either, now i shaved of 0.8secs SPI 1M.



Nice.

Can you write step by step what you did? (including any pauses between copying etc) :) If you can, throw in a screenshot showing task manager memory sizes before the Pi run as well.

[BeardyMan]

Can you write step by step what you did? (including any pauses between copying etc) :) If you can, throw in a screenshot showing task manager memory sizes before the Pi run as well.

Ok i will do that right away :)

[Zeus]

I don't get it, totally puzzled here.

Freeing up the available memory works fine, i even got up to a point where i had more avaialble memory than system cache (see pic) but it gives me ZERO gain in terms of SuperPi.

Did all what it takes, maxmem set to 600, 512mb fixed pagefile on the same partition i run SuperPi from (D) free'd up the memory with this tweak but got no love. :(

[BeardyMan]

This is al i did and like said
stock cpu + maxmem at 680 =29.4secs
stock cpu + maxmem and this tweak = 28.8, 28.6 when i push it even more.

[hipro5]

I don't get it, totally puzzled here.

Freeing up the available memory works fine, i even got up to a point where i had more avaialble memory than system cache (see pic) but it gives me ZERO gain in terms of SuperPi.

Did all what it takes, maxmem set to 600, 512mb fixed pagefile on the same partition i run SuperPi from (D) free'd up the memory with this tweak but got no love. :(

So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....:)



you would be pretty good as a lawyer :lol2:

:D

[Johnny Bravo]

So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....:)


and there are other who have seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit better than Copy Waza hipro.....

...so mixed results rather than an all out failure so far

[Zeus]

So what you say is that you haven't seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit worse than Copy Waza?....:)

:D

Nope, cannot say that cause i haven't tried copywaza yet but i will later on. ;)

[eva2000]

and there are other who have seen "THE" gain out of it and it's a bit better than Copy Waza hipro.....

...so mixed results rather than an all out failure so far
that can be said for original copy waza too from my tests LOL :o

[Johnny Bravo]

that can be said for original copy waza too from my tests LOL :o

Now there IS something - I wonder if you randomly choose 30/40 people on this forum and asked them to explain how to do the "copy wazza trick" how many different ways you hear? 5, 10, 15?!

Everyone seems to have their take on what needs to be done - even if you do it the same the error margin isn't exactly small as I'm sure you or anyone else who's tried this is aware.

In all honesty we'd be better off agreeing on what exactly IS the correct copy wazza process, then making a comment on what exactly OPB is trying to do here as well. I fear however neither of these will get resolved anytime soon :(

*edit*

Eva you ever get a chance to see this:

http://3oh6.com/forum_posted/ocx/jasons_screencast/3oh6_screencast_copywazza-1.html

it's quite good - watch it (maybe a few times) and tell me who it stacks up against with you've done things in the past, may be of some use?

[massman]

What wrong with your explanation, Johnny? (http://www.ocxtreme.org/forumenus/showpost.php?p=3138&postcount=3)

[eva2000]

*edit*

Eva you ever get a chance to see this:

http://3oh6.com/forum_posted/ocx/jasons_screencast/3oh6_screencast_copywazza-1.html

it's quite good - watch it (maybe a few times) and tell me who it stacks up against with you've done things in the past, may be of some use?
yeah i have read that and followed the advice a few times not much difference from untweaked/no maxmem runs variations between -/+ <1-3 seconds inconsistently

[harleybro]

First I must say I applaud the work that OPB has done explaining this on OCX. Next it would be great to see more posts in this thread with results. I planned to run stock vs. CW (if anyone wants me to use specific numbers for this or a specific method feel free to say so) vs. CDT last night but had a problem with my OS install. If I can't resolve it this evening then I am sure I will have time to on saturday. I know in the past the large gains had been disputed at the same time I must admit the descriptions of Super Pi (how it works, and what part of the system is used for each section of calculations) I have seen from OPB have exceeded any I have seen anywhere else. Finally I would like to think I am a very neutral party in this dispute. :up:

[Charles Wirth]

CES is coming up fast and I can arrange a bench off. :rofl:

If that doesnt work we can take it over to fight club and use their cage. :shrug:

[eva2000]

CES is coming up fast and I can arrange a bench off. :rofl:

If that doesnt work we can take it over to fight club and use their cage. :shrug:
hmmm that actually would be interesting to see.. the bench off i mean :)

[s7e9h3n]

CES is coming up fast and I can arrange a bench off. :rofl:

If that doesnt work we can take it over to fight club and use their cage. :shrug:

OPB's not going to CES.....

[BeardyMan]

Tweak seems to have a opposite effect on intel, can't figure out why.

I have installed xp instead of Vista on my laptop

and stock i get 23.2secs
with tweaks applied like on the amd system i lose time instead of gaining !:confused: :shocked:

23.5

don't know why though, will try to figure it out later today .

[Gautam]

if you can understand this, I don't see why I can't, if I am a cheater with high definition..lol, would not I can't cheat with more skillful or even cheat it closer and cheat it more legit in the range of Vapor's stupid formula? so I can let the score inside of the legit range and I got WR as well;)
so that's why I said the whole thing is being set up;) wake up people;)

oh I remember about somethinglike when barry Bonds or Jordan...(of course I am NOT comparing I am like them, I am not a smart guy , far more than that) achieve some amazing milestone, they always were doubt if they take any drug..oh ya, now I understand... and is there anyone can even touch them, nope.

Just wanna say one thing Kevin...note my usage of the words "readily explained." Not once did I use the word "cheat"...you're the one that brought that up. We're ready for any sort of an explanation. Even reading you clearly state that you're using your EEPROM programmer would be some progress. ATM, as I said, we aren't getting anything but flames out of you. :shrug:

Get the cage ready Charles, and I'll get my popcorn ready. Give the guys a couple of months to hit the gym first to make it enjoyable for the rest of us. :p:

[aasmaukr]

What's an EEPROM programmer anyways? Some kind of software? :hitself: