Removing LCS from a Thermaltake Kandalf – help with new setup using 2 rads

[tezauk]

Hi all, after reading the good advice provided on this forum I have decided to remove the Thermaltake LCS from my Kandalf case and start a fresh! Have a couple of questions about a new setup i’m considering and any help with the system layout is most welcome.

Firstly my setup for cooling includes:
Thermaltake Kandalf case
EVGA nForce 608i Sli (A1) Mobo
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850
2 x 7900 MSI GTO’s

The water cooling parts i’m thinking of getting include:

D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block
EK 680i SPP Block
EK NF4 MCP Block
Swiftech MCW60-B x2 GPU Block
12V Laing DDC-1T Ultra Pump (18W)
XPSC RS120 Black (120.1) rad
XSPC RS360 Black (120.3) rad (as it fits in the Kandalf Door)
XSPC Bay Reservior
3/8" Tubing

And I was looking at laying out the setup in the following order:

res>pump>cpu>gpu1+gpu2>rad(RS120)>spp>mcp>rad(RS360)>res


http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/1056/water1ze6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Have a few questions if anyone can help out:
1 – Does the 2 rad. layout seem ok? Hoping to lose some of the cpu/gpu heat before running back across the mobo to pickup the NB & SB
2 – I think the chosen pump will be fine to run the entire loop, can anyone comment on this?
3 – Should the two gpu’s be run in series or in parallel using a pair of Y splitters?
4 – Does it matter if the front rad is mounted upside down? (i.e. inlet/outlet at the bottom)

Cheers :)

[NaeKuh]

sorry a bit ot:

But must you use XSPC radiators? They really suck. Expecially the NEXXOS version with round tubes.

Your better off using StealthGTS from BlackIce.

[Waterlogged]

sorry a bit ot:

But must you use XSPC radiators? They really suck. Expecially the NEXXOS version with round tubes.

Your better off using StealthGTS from BlackIce.

BIPro would be much better than those POS.


To answer the OP

1. 2 loops would probably be better.

2. What color is the impeller?

3. Without a doubt...series.

4. Shouldn't, it'll just make bleeding a little harder and take a little longer.

[tezauk]

Thanks for the quick replies :)

NaeKuh - looked at the Stealth GTS from Blackice might be able to get it to fit in the front hangers of the Kandalf door but it will definitely be a tight fit! Stock rad is 409x119x37 and the bracket looks like it will accept up to 130mm wide, the XPSC measures in at 397x121x35 while the Blackice is 397x133x29, think the width might be a problem. Are the XSPC rads really that cr@p?

Waterlogged - thanks for your help, I will make sure I run the GPU's in series. Will try to keep the rad the right way up also, may be able to run the pipes through one of the 5 1/4 slots. Could possibly run the mobo chipsets in a second loop using the rear rad but not sure if I will have room for a second pump/res, thought that using two rads in this way may possibly give the same result? Not sure on the impeller but the link to the pump is here - http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=77_74&products_id=598

Cheers

teza

[NaeKuh]

Thanks for the quick replies :)

NaeKuh - looked at the Stealth GTS from Blackice might be able to get it to fit in the front hangers of the Kandalf door but it will definitely be a tight fit! Stock rad is 409x119x37 and the bracket looks like it will accept up to 130mm wide, the XPSC measures in at 397x121x35 while the Blackice is 397x133x29, think the width might be a problem. Are the XSPC rads really that cr@p?
Cheers

teza


Direct from the watercooling bible on this forum:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45743&stc=1&d=1144713834

Round tubes = bad. Flat tubes = good.


BIP = single pass

BIGTS = dual pass

GTS has a bigger flow reduction then BIP. But the GTS is slimmer then the BIP.

Remember, MODing is always the answer to everything!

[tezauk]

Yeh the TT rad has the round tubes :O the XSPC appears to be running the flat tubes http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_73&products_id=467 only single pass but I think double pass will make the depth impossible to fit without removing the door! :) I have read that the swiftech MCR320 QP should fit but I am having trouble sourcing one in the uk.

Thanks

TEZA

[Waterlogged]

Direct from the watercooling bible on this forum:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45743&stc=1&d=1144713834

Round tubes = bad. Flat tubes = good.


BIP = single pass

BIGTS = dual pass

GTS has a bigger flow reduction then BIP. But the GTS is slimmer then the BIP.

Remember, MODing is always the answer to everything!

:shakes:

I'm surprised at you NeaKuh, both BIP's and BIGTS are single row, 2 pass rads. The BIP (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=4185) is also thinner than the GTS (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=4538) by 4.6mm.
GTS has higher pressure drop for both the water flow and airflow than the BIP.

tezauk, That pump will be fine. That's what we in the States call a 3.2 (blue impeller). If you somehow manage to get a MCR, that would be the cat's meow. While I'm not a very big fan of them, you could use a DB-1 (http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=77_74&products_id=632&osCsid=b4bae19f2a7641ce933263ec5157d711) for your chipset loop and use a T-line.

[tezauk]

Thanks Waterlogged for the advice, can't find a uk stockist for the MCR but think it will be worth spending a bit extra to get one shipped over from the States as i'm pretty sure this one fits in the door.

Will look into running a second loop for the nb/sb - haven't used a T-line before, have read the sticky about it and it looks straightforward but a little concerned about bleeding the loop with one fitted? alternatively, would a pump with a built in res be suitable for the chipset loop? e.g. http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=77_74&products_id=298&osCsid=b4bae19f2a7641ce933263ec5157d711

[Waterlogged]

That pump is a little weaker than the one I linked to but it should do OK.

A T-line takes a little longer to fill and bleed out completely, that's the only differences from a res. It'd be fine for a chipset loop.

[Boyu]

I also use thermaltaek kandalf LCS then decide to take off all of the std LCS,then replace it with:

Dtek fuzion,mcw 30,Ek 88GTX,mcp 655,DDC 2,thermochill pa 120.3 n mcr 220,2x micro res.

run 2 loop as well but using 2 pump,for CPU n northbridge i'm using PA 120.3 that i mount on the top on my case,for second loop for GPU i use swiftech MCR 220 that i mount on the back of casing. all using swiftech radbox

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8745/sngdb2.jpg

[perfection]

his rad has flat tubes.

http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_73&products_id=466

[tezauk]

Thanks all for your help, I think I have a good idea now with how to go ahead with it all.

Cheers

TEZA

[NaeKuh]

:shakes:

I'm surprised at you NeaKuh, both BIP's and BIGTS are single row, 2 pass rads. The BIP (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=4185) is also thinner than the GTS (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=4538) by 4.6mm.
GTS has higher pressure drop for both the water flow and airflow than the BIP.

tezauk, That pump will be fine. That's what we in the States call a 3.2 (blue impeller). If you somehow manage to get a MCR, that would be the cat's meow. While I'm not a very big fan of them, you could use a DB-1 (http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=77_74&products_id=632&osCsid=b4bae19f2a7641ce933263ec5157d711) for your chipset loop and use a T-line.

Ahhhhh... must of gotten confused with jab-tech's description. I rechecked the vendor website and your correct. It is a single pass.

Jab-Tech's Description:
Features:
Two-pass U-flow tank configuration. "



HWLabs Webiste description:
Single-pass low resistance cross flow tank configuration


My error.

[tezauk]

Hi all, just to let you know i've gone ahead with the order,hope I dont get caught for import tax now on the Swiftech rad!

Parts list includes:

D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block
EK 680i SPP Block
EK NF4 MCP Block
Swiftech MCW60-B x2 GPU Block
12V Laing DDC-1T Ultra Pump
12V X2O Compact 400 Pump
Black Ice GT Stealth I Radiator
Swiftech MCR320-QP-K Triple 120mm Radiator
Swiftech Radbox
Swiftech Micro Reservior
14ft 3/8" Tygon Tubing

looking at running two loops as suggested, anyone see any problem with the order on these?

res>pump>cpu>gpu1>gpu2>rad (triple)
res>pump>spp>mcp>rad (single)

Thanks again,
TEZA

[CyberDruid]

In general I plumb a loop in this order

res pump rad block\

not

res pump block rad

My reasoning is you eliminate some heat dump...but it could be wishful thinking...

[Waterlogged]

Hi all, just to let you know i've gone ahead with the order,hope I dont get caught for import tax now on the Swiftech rad!

Parts list includes:

D-Tek Fuzion CPU Block
EK 680i SPP Block
EK NF4 MCP Block
Swiftech MCW60-B x2 GPU Block
12V Laing DDC-1T Ultra Pump
12V X2O Compact 400 Pump
Black Ice GT Stealth I Radiator
Swiftech MCR320-QP-K Triple 120mm Radiator
Swiftech Radbox
Swiftech Micro Reservior
14ft 3/8" Tygon Tubing

looking at running two loops as suggested, anyone see any problem with the order on these?

res>pump>cpu>gpu1>gpu2>rad (triple)
res>pump>spp>mcp>rad (single)

Thanks again,
TEZA

Are these going to be in the same loop? If so, your going to have a horrible flow rate. I have a GTS and did some testing for about 2 days after I got it (this was when they first came out). My testing was done with a CSP-Mag (best pump I had at the time) and it's a bit better than the one your getting and it lost 1 LPM (yes, that's 60LPH[almost 16GPH]) of flow through a full CPU only loop when compared to a BIP. It likely would have been better to use an XSPC rad for that loop.

[tezauk]

CyberDruid - Does putting the rad after the pump affect the flow rate at all? (one of my loops is using a fairly low powered pump)

Waterlogged - yes was thinking of putting those in the same loop, have contacted the shop to swap the BlackIce for the XSPC - hopefully they will read the email before they ship my order!! :)

[LinusTech]

Also, those two radiators have exactly the same form factor.




Ahhhhh... must of gotten confused with jab-tech's description. I rechecked the vendor website and your correct. It is a single pass.

Jab-Tech's Description:
Features:
Two-pass U-flow tank configuration. "



HWLabs Webiste description:
Single-pass low resistance cross flow tank configuration


My error.

[Waterlogged]

I don't think I've ever seen that much misinformation in one of your posts :shrug:

Hence my surprise. NaeKuh is usually very good with info but it looks like the jab-n-weave combo from HWLabs and JT knocked himout. ;)

tezauk, hope you got to them in time. :up:

[Xander]

Thanks Waterlogged for the advice, can't find a uk stockist for the MCR but think it will be worth spending a bit extra to get one shipped over from the States as i'm pretty sure this one fits in the door.
Special Tech emailed me today saying that they've got the MCR360 back in stock. Go grab one as I've heard they fit fine. The dimensions certainly line up.

[Sparky]

In general I plumb a loop in this order

res pump rad block\

not

res pump block rad

My reasoning is you eliminate some heat dump...but it could be wishful thinking...

Doesn't really matter much. Shorter, cleaner route > loop order.

Example, my rad is last on the list, goes res>pump>GPU>CPU>rad because of that. Would be a tangled mess to try and put the rad after the pump.

[tezauk]

Close call on that but they changed the order so the XPSC rad is on it's way instead of the Black Ice GT Stealth, thanks for the quick advice on that one! :) Is it the two pass U-flow configuration that causes the problems with the flow rate on the GT then? I'm guessing the XPSC is a better choice because of the single pass cross flow arrangement?

Thanks Xander,already ordered one off jab-tech in the states as I wasn't sure when any UK stores would be getting these! Not too worry tho it worked out the same price (providing I escape any import duty!)

Guess it's best to look more closely at the loop config when all the parts are fitted, like Sparky says tho, i think it will make for a tidier run if the rad is last in line.

[Waterlogged]

It's still a single row 2 pass rad.
The reason GTS (and to some extent, the GTX) rads are so awful is due to the tube design. They claim the tubes are "19.0 x 1.2mm MaxFlow™" when in reality they are MaxRestrictive. I have no doubt that their "theory" of thinner tubes works great...on paper, they just fumbled the ball by not adding more tubes to the design to help overcome the inherent and massive flow restriction such a tube places on the loop. They also need to strengthen their quality control on their tubes as I have a few that measure ~1.15mm/1.16mm in the rad I have. Yes, that's a very small amount (~.05mm[.002]) but, it just means there is that much less on the inside as well. And I haven't even touched on the FPI yet....:rolleyes:

[CyberDruid]

@ WaterLogged. What's your favorite radiator?

[Waterlogged]

Of the ones I've actually used? standard BIP.

I have a PA120.1 and 120.2 waiting to go into 2 separate systems and suspect that once they go in, I'll like them the best. An MCR QP might be on the list for another build but, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.