Dehumidifier

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

Okies, Ive made the jump, Im going to try phase change =) but I need some help really quick, I have a working de-humidifier sitting in my basement, according to the back it has a 2/3 HP compressor in it, but before I rip it apart i want to make sure of a few things, first off im not sure i understand the whole capilary tubing things....and also, the evaporator in the dehumidifier is just a big coil of Al tubing that the water condenses on, would i be able to just cut that chunk of the system out, and exchange it for my evaporator that im planning on making to cool the water (it is better to cool water and run the water over the CPU than to run the refer fluid right over the CPU, right?) so yeah, hopefully someone can help me out a bit there :banana:

EDIT: also is that compressor big enough ?

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

ROFL maybe i should read other thread =P http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1250

[OPPAINTER]

Sorry can't help you, but this might.
http://3rotor.dns2go.com/images/FAQ/CC_Conversion/main_01.html

OPP

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

hehe thank you opp, i tihnk im gonna cut a line though, and build the system with out the refer fluid in it, then take it to a shop and have em evac / charge it

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

Alright I ripped the unit apart, just to look at it, and I understand the capilary tubing thing now, its all a lot simpler once you can look at it in person, but I HAVE to uncharge it, theres no way i cant, im using my own evaporator... so i need to cut into the lines, thus uncharging the unit, so i need to ask a few questions first:

1. im decent at brazing / soldering, BUT I dont trust my joints to hold that much PSI, so is there any type of mechanical connector i could use, like a compression fitting or a flare fitting? and if flare should it be a standard flare, or a double flare (rolled), or is there something else all together i should use?

2. I believe this unit contains R12 refridgerant which I know you cant get anymore, so when i get it charged with newer refridgerant which should i use? Im thinking R22, but if theres something better, let me know..also, will i need to change the oil in the compressor?

3. are there any other things i will need to do before I get the unit charged, and I was reading that its tough to figure out the perfect amount of refridgerant to use, so should i charge it myself run it, add a bit more, run it, and keep adding and taking temps until i figure out whats optimal, and then take it to the professionals, tell them how much to use, and have it evaced and charged? or should i not even try to charge it myself and let them put in however much they think is best?

somone PLEASE help me out here, I really want to do this project, but i wont be able to without your help, so any input would be appreciated, theres no amount of reading capable of teaching me what i can learn from your opinions and thoguhts ;)

-AsWeThinkWeIs

NEW QUESTION!!! :
Should i make use the phase change system to cool water and have that cool the CPU or should i cool it directly ?

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

CMON GUYS /me needs help!!!! I WANNA GET THIS YAMSING PROJEKT OFF THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrIcee]

A couple of points to make my friend:)

DO NOT charge that R-12 system with R-22. They are different Freons that are incompatible. They work at different pressures...so your system is optimized for R12. R134 could used as it is in the retrofit automoble world...but again, because they work at differing pressures...the 134 will not be as effecient and run warmer. Personally...I'd bite the bullets and have a HVAC guy replumb it for you as I did...and have him recharge it. He might be able to steer you to an acceptable replacement for the R-12.

Also...if it is R-12....its best to let a pro evacuate it..as its highly illegal to let the stuff out into the atmosphere.

As far as refilling it...same answer. No matter how you set up your system..more tubing etc....they can fill it for you and get it just right thru pressure readings. Not doing it in this manner will be a big guessing game entirely.

Randi:D

[AsWeThinkWeIs]

hehe okies, look like im kinda screwed then.... I need money to buy a computer right now, and i cant afford to dump money into this right now =( thanks for the help Icee

[AKRedneck]

Well, here's what I've got...she's awaiting a reservoir for the evaporator.. From what I can tell these dehumidifiers are an easy conversion to a chiller. Guess we'll see if it can handle the heat load. This sucker (Kenmore) uses R22 and has a pretty descent fan for the condensor (a little loud though).

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/44d8830f/bc/__hr_Evaporator+View.jpg?bc.K3Q9ADz4lBEC0

Cold Stuff! I like..http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/44d8830f/bc/__hr_ColdTemp.jpg?bc.K3Q9AOpiibw79

[dmitriyaz]

what exactly model of Kenmore are you using?
what wattage is the compressor? how many pints/24hour is it rated for?
i am planning on buying a Kenmore dehumidifier, just want to see if its the same thing, and your result :banana:

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
what exactly model of Kenmore are you using?
what wattage is the compressor? how many pints/24hour is it rated for?... :banana:

This dehumidifier is the 65 pint/day version, model #53650. I know they make 3 models. The smallest (30pint) is not worth looking at as it uses R134a, with a much higher boiling point than the R22. The 45 pint/day model uses R22 also. I'm beginning to think that the 45 pint/day model uses the same compressor, not sure though. This model I've got has a 2speed fan and a energy saver timer (3 or 6 hour cyles). I've searched the net for the compressor data sheet but to no avail. I think it's probably good for at least 350 watts. If your able to look at the 45pint version, pull the bucket off the back of it and look at the nameplate stuck to the back of the unit (hidden behind the bucket). The compressor I've got uses 9.9 oz. of R22.

It'll be awhile before I see some results from this unit since I'm going to make a nice custom reservoir and then I need to do all that fun condensation proofing. I'm just guessing it'll keep the CPU @ load under 32°F :toast:

[dmitriyaz]

hmm...
hurry up, please :toast: just kidding.
i think that with a powerful enough pump, custom blocks and super insulation everywhere, i will be able to reach sub-zero celcius without a pelt :D
as for teh reservuar--i got a suggestion:
try a a coleman cooler, you know, for the cans of coke? try to find the size that will fit perfect, cut a few holes in it for the pipes and your done. first of all, its virtually no work, second of all, its cheap, and finnaly, its already well insulated.
thats what i'll do. and then if the outside of it gets cold (unlikely), i will insulate it some more.
good luck, and keep in touch :toast: :banana:

EDIT: oh, and no, the 45 pint version doesnt use teh same compressor,
i did a lot of research, you can find all the data for kenmores or sears page.
your dehumidifier has 740w compressor, while the 45pint uses something like 550w, and 30pint ==> about 400w.

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz

as for teh reservuar--i got a suggestion:
try a a coleman cooler, you know, for the cans of coke? try to find the size that will fit perfect, cut a few holes in it for the pipes and your done. first of all, its virtually no work, second of all, its cheap, and finnaly, its already well insulated.
thats what i'll do. and then if the outside of it gets cold (unlikely), i will insulate it some more.
good luck, and keep in touch :toast: :banana:

EDIT: oh, and no, the 45 pint version doesnt use teh same compressor,
i did a lot of research, you can find all the data for kenmores or sears page.
your dehumidifier has 740w compressor, while the 45pint uses something like 550w, and 30pint ==> about 400w.


Actually, Ive been trying to find a descent cooler that I can modify to fit but I'm trying to keep the reservoir partially inside the back of this unit. It's on casters and I want the thing to roll around with the reservoir on the back. We'll see, I might be able to rig something.

As for the compressor wattage, I've seen the specs on the sears page, but remember that is power consumption from the wall. These compressors aren't 100% efficient, so the actual cooling capacity will be somewhat less. Also, remember the fan is also included in that 740w that is quoted.. Not sure what the fan uses however. Maybe I can figure out exactly what the fan consumption is and get a better estimate..uhh, but who cares...i'll give it the real test!! :p Anyway's, I'll keep ya posted unless you beat me to it.

[dmitriyaz]

thanks man :)
as for the fan wattage: its infenitesimal. like 5 watts maybe. you shouldn't even take that into consideration.
about the res. etc.:
this is my ultimate dream:
make a a big case ( 2.5 feet high, 1 foot deep, 1.5 foot wide),
very sturdy stainless steel frame and thick aluminum sheets,
make it into 2 fluors:
the bottom one will take up about 80% and it will contain my chiller, pump, and the cooling stuff.
i plan to remove of the dehumidifier from its original housing and mount in inside my case.
my case will be WAAAY sturdier, and will eliminate the annoying vibrating sound, for the most part.
the second flour will contain drives and PSU (or a bunch of PSUs, if i have pelts)
and finnaly on the top of it, exposed, i will mount the mobo, and all the good stuff.
and all the wires and pipes will be able to go to from the top to the 2 fluors in the case itself.
thumb screws everywhere.
its kind of hard to explain what i have in my head, but as soon as im done, i'll be sure to brag.

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
...as for teh reservuar--i got a suggestion:
try a a coleman cooler, you know, for the cans of coke?

Well, I managed to find a decent sized cooler as you suggested and it works out pretty well. Definitely doesn't need any more insulation on the cooler. The idle temps are approx 5°C but that's with WPCRSET register settings. Load temps are around 23°C. We'll see how the temps are affected when I hook up the vid card waterblock. I'm not real sure if it's possible to get subzero temps without a pelt but I'm sure with some kind of better coolant the temps could be lower. 50/50 water/glycol really sucks for heat transfer properties. Maybe some ethyl alcohol or methanol and water will improve the cooling..

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/44d8830f/bc/Chiller%26Res.jpg?bcvDvb9AfcN4uzWjhttp://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/44d8830f/bc/Reservoir.jpg?bcvDvb9A4G8_j7f1:banana:

[dmitriyaz]

:eek: :eek: :eek:
seems like all i want to do but don't have the cash yet--you already did.
stop stealing my life god damn it! :) :p
what cooler is that you are using?
and you temps are waaay high,
for them to be lower, you need:
rewire all the electronics inside, so that it won't be depended on humidity :rolleyes:, but would be set to maximum power all the time.
put some sort of alcohol inside, after all, you cant have subzero with water...
insulate the whole damn thing completely! make it so that your "alcohol loop" will be as sealed as the freon loop in the dehumidifier.

BTW, how loud is it?

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
:eek: :eek: :eek:
what cooler is that you are using?
and you temps are waaay high,
for them to be lower, you need:
rewire all the electronics inside, so that it won't be depended on humidity :rolleyes:, but would be set to maximum power all the time.
put some sort of alcohol inside, after all, you cant have subzero with water...
insulate the whole damn thing completely! make it so that your "alcohol loop" will be as sealed as the freon loop in the dehumidifier.

BTW, how loud is it?

hey look on the bright side, maybe they have different color coolers? :p it's a 16quart coleman from wally world..

i already bypassed the humidity sensor..it has nothing to do with the compressor load. the sensor only shuts the unit off when the humidity gets to the desired level.

as for the noise..well, it's not quiet thats' for sure. it sounds like on of those big box fans on high...sort of. but with almost 4 gallons of coolant, it doesn't need to run all the time anyway's...unless benchmarking.. :toast:

[dmitriyaz]

this is really weird.
the cooler you are using is the same exact one as i picked and planned to measure to make sure it fits.
the dehumidifier you bought is the same one as i am planning on buying, when i get the money.
ne ways,
as for the noise,
i am planning to replace the fan or mine, cause its a piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana:, frankly.
you can get a 172mm Comair-Rotron DC fan that is not nearly as loud, and pushes 200cfm. then put it on a rheostat and it will be silent, while still pushing the required amount of flow.
what type of watercooling pieces are you using?
also, what is the temp. inside your reservuar?

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
what type of watercooling pieces are you using?
also, what is the temp. inside your reservuar?

Yeah that cooler is definitely the choice size....about $16 at wally world huh...I was runnin around there with one of there tape measures, measuring all kind of tupperware and what not and finally saw the cooler.

I'm using a Swiftech 462 waterblock with an Eheim 1250 & 1/2"tube. I had the chiller on by itself and water temps got down to roughly -26°C at the outlet of the cooler box (temp probe is sitting inside the outlet tubing. Idle temp right now is between 1 & 2°C.
Forgot to mention my temps I quoted earlier were with a Vcore of 2.06V. I have since turned down the pot a little and I'll see exactly what Voltage I need to run this XP1800 @ 1900 stable. Max I've gotten outta this chip is about 1950 but that's not really stable.

I'd say for the money and work required this chiller kicks ass! :p I've already thought about slowing down this fan or totally replacing it. Yes, it is definitely a POS fan. Anyway's, about the only thing left to do now is spray some expanding foam inside the lid of this cooler and insulate my tubing between the cooler and the 'puter. :toast:

[dmitriyaz]

:toast: good luck m8, your like my hero :D
the dehumidifier route is the one i chose over water+pelts for several reasons:

You can add pelts later, and get better performance yet.
pelts would rape my power bill
pelts require a special, or at least dedicated ATX, power supply, and another PSU means heat, that means fans, that means more noise...
in the end, good water+pelts setup will cost way more, with all the dedicated psu's etc.
phase change owns j00! :D

i am thinking of getting a super high flow pump (600gph+), maybe a EHEIM 1260, with 3/4" fittings, use 3/4" silicone tubing (will be kind of hard to find), and make custom blocks with 3/4" fittings and wide inside channel....but its hard to imagine what 3/4" on the cpu, gpu, nb, and all over the place, what would look like? dont forget that i need to insulate them too, i am trying to figure out if there is even enough room for all of that in there...
could you post more pics? what your cpu area looks like right now?
your condensation prevention measures inside the case?
:toast:

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
your condensation prevention measures inside the case?
:toast:

I'll post some pics on the water block soon. I have some condensation issues to correct soon, also need to get some silicon tubing because this vinyl tubing i'm using right now hardens up like steel when it's ice cold. At the moment I've insulated everything with some neoprene/rubber insulation that I found at lowes. This stuff is basically a tape, Almost 1/4" thick. I thought everything was well insulated until yesterday, when i shined the flashilight on the water block after running for an hour or so. This water block was covered in big drops of condensation just waiting to drip! I was pretty surprised to see all that condensation after insulating. I shut the machine off and I'll probably pull the setup out this weekend and re-tube and insulate the whole thing. It's gonna take 2 layers to get the condensation under control.

I'm gonna get a small separate pump to use for the video card. Also I've been thinking about building a small little box to house the pumps in and mount that to the back of the reservoir or something. It's nice to have the pump in the case but it really sucks when trying to pull cards out and hook up drives, etc. The space is really nice to have. :D

[dmitriyaz]

oh no...
you did use silicone sealant around the socket an in the square inside the socket, right?
and please don't tell me you didn't use dielectric grease inside the socket pin holes?
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
oh no...
you did use silicone sealant around the socket an in the square inside the socket, right?
and please don't tell me you didn't use dielectric grease inside the socket pin holes?
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Damn, I'm not real smart but I aint' that dumb...

Neoprene in the socket, Silicon compound in the pin holes.. Liquid Electrical Tape around the socket.. Conformal coating on the back side... It's all good :cool:

[dmitriyaz]

whew...:cool:
and i had an even better idea for the fan:
2x panaflo 120mm fans.
combined, they will give you 170cfm of flow, and doubt you will even be able to hear them from your chair :D

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
whew...:cool:
and i had an even better idea for the fan:
2x panaflo 120mm fans.
combined, they will give you 170cfm of flow, and doubt you will even be able to hear them from your chair :D

dmitriyaz,

Do you remember the specs on the panaflo's or the model number, or where to buy the darn things.. The dehumidifier is out of service for the moment as i'm moving into a new case and improving on a few things.. I'm ready to quieten that sucker down...and perhaps make a custom (smaller) enclosure for it..

I'm running a Papst 4312L 120mm rated for 55.9 CFM @ 1550 RPM , 30 Db on my straight water cooled black ice xtreme for the pelt cooled gpu and I can barely here it. I could use a little more airflow for the condensor on the dehumidifier though. Thanks..
:D

[dmitriyaz]

i meant this one: http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-005.html
2 of those will give you about the same air flow as the POS stock fan,
and will be MUCH quieter :)
BTW, caseetc.com is far from the cheapest place to buy them :hehe:

[AKRedneck]

Originally posted by dmitriyaz
i meant this one: http://www.caseetc.com/cgi-bin/caseetc/F-005.html ....BTW, caseetc.com is far from the cheapest place to buy them :hehe:

I think those are the ones I saw earlier on another website. ..and they were like 17.95 or something over there.. who's cheaper than caseetc? :confused:

[dmitriyaz]

hmm...
now that i did a little search,
i couldn't even find them for cheaper than $16, what they are at caseetc...:doh:
but they are out of stock there, so here's another place that carries them for $16 plus shipping...http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/25/209.htm?405 :thumbsup: