BLACK ICE GTX360 EXTREME v.s Thermochill PA120.3

[brinkman94]

Hey i would just like to know which is th better radiator the BLACK ICE GTX360 EXTREME or the Thermochill PA120.3. And how much is the performace differance between the two? thanks:)

[Grafton]

the pa102.3 is a monster truck and the black ice is a toy car in terms of preformance

[troisanh]

pa120.3

[IanY]

There is not even a basis for comparison. PA120.3 is far superior.

[Section8]

^^^ :rofl: LoL what they said. The truck comparison has me laughing uncontrollably .. LOL:rofl:

[kevinbo03]

Personally I'd prefer the Corvette Z06 Vs. Toyota Prius comparison.


Not to say that you cant drift up Pierce Road in a Prius. http://www.pbreview.com/forums/images/smilies/dodgy.gif

[Cupcake]

are you guys kidding ? The GTX Series dominates the PA series with good fans

with quiet fans though the PA series will win

low speed fans cant push air through the GTX since the fins are packed so tight

[Gunlance]

are you guys kidding ? The GTX Series dominates the PA series with good fans

with quiet fans though the PA series will win

low speed fans cant push air through the GTX since the fins are packed so tight

define good fans. Fans that push 151cfms and sound like a jet engine is taking off in your comptuer?

[Waterlogged]

Well, if you want silence, go with a PA. If you want to live on a runway at JFK, go with the GTX.

[safan80]

I have both radiators... with YLs on both. if you don't have a pa 120.3 get one.

[dinos22]

there were one or two threads here comparing these directly and there was not much of a difference between the two rads :shrug:

[Martinm210]

While I think the GTX is a good rad with high speed fans, HW Labs has been completely non responsive regarding test data.

I've emailed them several times asking and while they make vague claims on thier ads, they do absolutly nothing to back them up. Then I've heard some people say they got an email from some guy stating claims like the 480GTX is good for 2200 watts. It might be 40C deltas, but they conveniently left that out. So in the end they ether make absurd claims or they don't even respond. Also there was a French review of the 240GTS and it is by far the most restrictive rad out there for pressure drop, it's litterally as restrictive as half a dozen PAs, not sure if this is the case with the GTX, noone has ever done a pressure drop test on one.

Thermochill on the other hand has anything you could ever want regarding test data here:

http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting/index.php#PA1203

This difference in how open they are about providing real world data to compare says ALOT to me.

Get the PA...at least you have some data to back up the claims...

[Polizei]

Well, if you want silence, go with a PA. If you want to live on a runway at JFK, go with the GTX.

:rofl:


back away from the crack pipe,
andyc

:rofl: :rofl:

[leo_bsb]

Well, if you want silence, go with a PA. If you want to live on a runway at JFK, go with the GTX.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :ROTF: :ROTF: :rofl: :ROTF: :ROTF:

[Waterlogged]

^^:hm:^^








:shrug: Me no know what's so funny? :D ;)

[leo_bsb]

With this kind of comparision everyone will get to the point ;)

[yngndrw]

PA120.3's are truly awesome, added to that Thermochill's customer support is very good indeed, I don't see why anybody would need to ask this question. ;)

[Patriote]

+1 Pa120.3

Or as a second solution, MCR320.

[dinos22]

i'm sorry but i just don't buy the whole +1 here

why don't we look at price vs performance as well

you can by two GTX rads and have some spare cash instead of one PA120.3

http://www.jab-tech.com/120mm-Triple-c-258.html

if you've got a case capable of taking a TC you can fit two GTX rads too and i'm sure you'll get higher heat dissipation with two of these compared to one TC easily particularly with ultra high heat load

:shrug:

[Patriote]

Yeha but we haven;t talked about the price :D Only Performance with relatively low noise fans ? Yes? :shrug:

[dinos22]

well I am talking about it now

and i am confident that 2xGTX360 fans will beat since TC in EVERY aspect you mentioned :p: :D

[Jedda]

Huh?
That link shows a $5 difference. Where do you get the idea of two for the price of one?
In the land we live the GTX is much more costly than Thermochill. So you seem to be wrong in both hemispheres.

[dinos22]

you are right

i looked at the $55 GT :D

and i still think even with GT you are in business :D

[dinos22]

really

people also doubted me that i will have quiet fans on my GTS240 with an overclocked quad and 8800GTS and it's going great

i am sure if someone reliable was to test these claims of mine that 2xGT 360 rads will beat 1xPA120.3 EASY on all aspects including dBA :)

[Jedda]

Hot air

[dinos22]

hmmm more fins per area than PA series.....no need for air volume just flow.

Dino what postion you have your rads in! flat,verticle, side ?

http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4090

[CrazyJoe]

Testing has shown that with 70cfm fans moving at 1200rpm at less, the PA120.3 with 3 of such will match or beat the GTX480 with 4 of such. Move above 70cfm fans and the GTX will begin to pull ahead. Move below 70cfm, and the PA's lead grows.

Found here - http://www.over-clock.com (http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=19496&view=findpost&p=176708)

Not exactly apples to apples ( GTX480 vs PA120.3 ) but an accurate representation just the same.
For fans, I use Sunon KD1212PMB3-86 ... 84cfm at 35 dBa.
Not the quietest fans out there by far, but acceptable by a margin. ( Lord knows I can't hear much over my 4 kids anyway ... :D ) :up:

[Grafton]

i am using 2 MCR 320's in my build and where i am there cheaper than the hw gtx's and preform better but it's simpler to just get a single 120.3 ( watch out for random moster trucks if you don't follow good advice ) ;)

[Infa]

OMG 2 GTX RADS? imagine that sound coming of 6 high CFM fans ....hahah
6x40DB hhaha , pressure drop of 2 GTX in a row?? poor pump i wouldnt want to be it :) you can get 2 pumps though, but where are the economy then? noo PA 120.3 it is for the whole cent!

[Pen3]

i have always been wondering if the rads had to cool a lot of heat such as q6600@4ghz and sli 8800ultra vmod at 980/2600. Like marci said gtx480 and pa120.3 performs the same with 70cfm fans, but how will they compare with more heat?

[leo_bsb]

too much time working at an airport fixing turbines and we all will soon change to GTX push pulls :D

[dinos22]

OMG 2 GTX RADS? imagine that sound coming of 6 high CFM fans ....hahah
6x40DB hhaha , pressure drop of 2 GTX in a row?? poor pump i wouldnt want to be it :) you can get 2 pumps though, but where are the economy then? noo PA 120.3 it is for the whole cent!

who said anything about 6xfans ;)

[Infa]

hehehe push-pull it will be 12 , HAh ... now that's gotta be loud :)
you will have to get a pair of those ear mufflers that you use when working in high DB areas. OR really good Headphones , and use them all the time when you use the comp, poor bastards if you dont live alone :P

[nealh]

Well, if you want silence, go with a PA. If you want to live on a runway at JFK, go with the GTX.

:rofl:

[dinos22]

3xfans will be plenty :D

[Waterlogged]

http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=4090

Great case choice dinos22, have a black one myself that I need to build up.

What fans are you using and what RPM are they spinning at?

I see some ppl bringing the GTS into this debate which is wrong. The GTS and GTX have different fin densities IIRC, but the GTX makes up for this discrepancy by being much thicker. Both rad series need high flow, high pressure fans to work at their maximum potential, this makes them loud and undesirable to most ppl water cooling. On top of that, they both need high head pumps to be able to push the water through the tubes with any kind of reasonable flow rate.

[dinos22]

Great case choice dinos22, have a black one myself that I need to build up.

What fans are you using and what RPM are they spinning at?

I see some ppl bringing the GTS into this debate which is wrong. The GTS and GTX have different fin densities IIRC, but the GTX makes up for this discrepancy by being much thicker. Both rad series need high flow, high pressure fans to work at their maximum potential, this makes them loud and undesirable to most ppl water cooling. On top of that, they both need high head pumps to be able to push the water through the tubes with any kind of reasonable flow rate.

i use Rhobeus fan controller and Tricod Silence (Cathar can tell you how quiet these fans are even at 12V ;))

i run them at 85%

[Waterlogged]

i use Rhobeus fan controller and Tricod Silence (Cathar can tell you how quiet these fans are even at 12V ;))

i run them at 85%

Well, that's just plain cheatin' there! :lol2:

[quiet]

So, how come Thermochill hasn't updated their test data to compare to the GTX series radiators? If they are far superior, why not just take a couple hours, show the proof and end this constant debate of PA vs GTX? I swear every single week this same exact question arises and all the same fanboys come running in to say how bad the GTX rads are. It's annoying.

ps. If this data does exists, FFS make the thread a sticky.

[Waterlogged]

So, how come Thermochill hasn't updated their test data to compare to the GTX series radiators? If they are far superior, why not just take a couple hours, show the proof and end this constant debate of PA vs GTX? I swear every single week this same exact question arises and all the same fanboys come running in to say how bad the GTX rads are. It's annoying.

ps. If this data does exists, FFS make the thread a sticky.

Please don't confuse fanboism with the basic laws of physics. Do I own PA's?....yes, but I haven't used them in a system yet so I haven't experienced their awesomeness first hand. I also own a GTS (biggest mistake I've ever made, I got drawn in by the blingy paint job :rolleyes: ), and a BIP as well as a couple Extreme X-Flows (single and double). I'm also considering buying a MCR for another build.

I believe Marci did a PA120.3 v GTX480 comparison and the results are posted here somewhere, it just takes a little searching on your part.

[Jedda]

So, how come Thermochill hasn't updated their test data to compare to the GTX series radiators? If they are far superior, why not just take a couple hours, show the proof and end this constant debate of PA vs GTX? I swear every single week this same exact question arises and all the same fanboys come running in to say how bad the GTX rads are. It's annoying.

ps. If this data does exists, FFS make the thread a sticky.

Because the GTX guys wont give any data out.

[dinos22]

Because the GTX guys wont give any data out.

they can just buy one and run the tests yeah??

but i must say that one thing i dislike about GTS i have and would be better with PA is the dust builtup on the GTS >> it's freaking annoying particularly because my PC area is in a dusty area :(

[iadstudio]

:bananal: to all the :cheer:

[Jedda]

they can just buy one and run the tests yeah??

but i must say that one thing i dislike about GTS i have and would be better with PA is the dust builtup on the GTS >> it's freaking annoying particularly because my PC area is in a dusty area :(

GTS or GTX?
If you want the numbers buy it and test yourself.
I already know the PA is better and cheaper.

[dinos22]

GTS or GTX?
If you want the numbers buy it and test yourself.
I already know the PA is better and cheaper.

i am not after any numbers myself :confused:

i couldn't care less

[GrimReaper]

I owned both of them, A GTX 240 and a PA120.3, used Scythe 63CFM fans on both of them,

The PA120.3 gave me exactly 2-3C lower temps compared to the GTX 240.
I have only my CPU cooled by a Dtek block.
the 2-3C lowers temps could be because of the size of the Pa120.3 compared to the GTX.
I think if I had a GTX 360 then the temps would have been pretty much the same.

p.s
also got Ultra 120 and a ultra 120 EX...
short review coming up today ;)

[ranker]

I've also owned the whole range from BIP's, to BIX's, MCR's and PA's.

The biggest benefit of PA rads over all others is it's ability to cool just as well if not better than its competitor utilizing lower CFM fans. Lower CFM = less noise. That's the most noticeable improvement for me when I swapped from a BIX & MCR to PA rads. I still utilize my MCR's although my BIX and BIP's are in early retirement.

Most people won't notice much of a temp difference as one would have to max out the radiator or be close to its maximum capacity to really notice it. As a result, multiple loop rigs won't see that large of a temp difference. However, with single loop rigs, which are more likely to be taxed, one will notice a temp difference.

Also, don't forget that one PA radiator has less of a pressure drop of up to 2-3 similar sized radiators from other leading competitors.

In the end, one just has to ask oneself how much is quietness, less restriction, and slightly lower temps is worth to oneself. For the average person, the $50 premium is too steep. For those like me, it's a drop in the bucket for those of us seeking a whisper rig with the most absolute bottom temps possible.

[Grafton]

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/9/9/17/f_radsm_6796cca.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/9/17/f_radsm_6796cca.jpg&srv=img28)
:rehab: :rehab:

[Pansuu]

Also, don't forget that one PA radiator has less of a pressure drop of up to 2-3 similar sized radiators from other leading competitors.

Who can care less of pressure drop, if temps will be the same.

I have two 360GTX`s, and coming is two PA120.3. When i have tested those, i will tell is there so hypeted differenties.

[quiet]

Please don't confuse fanboism with the basic laws of physics. Do I own PA's?....yes, but I haven't used them in a system yet so I haven't experienced their awesomeness first hand. I also own a GTS (biggest mistake I've ever made, I got drawn in by the blingy paint job :rolleyes: ), and a BIP as well as a couple Extreme X-Flows (single and double). I'm also considering buying a MCR for another build.

I believe Marci did a PA120.3 v GTX480 comparison and the results are posted here somewhere, it just takes a little searching on your part.

I don't mean to sound like that, i'm just tired of people practically saying "GTX is a piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana: compared to PA" when the difference is very minimal. And the guys saying it takes 150CFM fans on a GTX to cool just as good as 30CFM on a PA are completely clueless.

[Waterlogged]

Well, I did some digging and found the PA120.3 vs GTX480 testing and found it was actually done by Radical_53.

Here's link #1 (which has better data)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1971170#post1971170

Link #2 (pretty much same results only condensed and fans are stated)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2145421#post2145421

Please keep in mind that the GTX had an extra fan and an extra 120mm of cooling area (both length and width). Given a heads up .3 vs 360 test, I believe the 360 would need higher CFM fans to close the gap.


I don't mean to sound like that, i'm just tired of people practically saying "GTX is a piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana: compared to PA" when the difference is very minimal. And the guys saying it takes 150CFM fans on a GTX to cool just as good as 30CFM on a PA are completely clueless.

Can they both cool the same?...yes, but not at the same dbA level, this fact is plain and simple. This fact rates it as ":banana::banana::banana::banana:" in some ppl's book. Maybe if you undervolt a 150CFM leafblower, you might get some kind of "silent performance" out of a GTS/GTX. :ROTF:

[keops]

PA120.3 is a great rad this is true but it is too big. MCR is 34 mm thick so it is easier to install it. PA120.3 is 59 mm thick. And where PA120.3 costs 134$ the Swiftech MCR320 is 56$. But if we talk about just the performance of a single rad PA120.3 is the best. I prefer two MCR320 or one MCR320+one MCR240 because i use 4 blocks in my rig.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=200&sort=20a&page=2

[V3LOCIP3D3]

The only professional review out there is posted at this translated link: here (http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.effizienzgurus.de/main/index.php%3Fcontent%3Darticle%26action%3Dview_spec _article%26article_id%3D221)

The review uses 3 Yate Loon D12SL-12 at speeds of 400, 800, and 1200 RPMs. At 1200RPM, the D12SL-12 blows at 45 CFM and is rated at 24dB
Specs: here (http://www.yateloon.com/style/content/CN-02c/product_detail.asp?lang=2&customer_id=1356&name_id=31277&rid=8511&id=38837)

At 400RPM, the Thermochill 120.3 has a significant lead over the GTX360. At 800RPM that lead narrows to be less-than-significant, but still there. At 1200RPM, the GTX360 pulls way ahead with a very noticable lead.

Prices are pretty much the same. The GTX360 being about 124.99, and the 120.3 being 134.99 last time I checked.

So if you're using liquid cooling primarily for a silent PC, than the Thermochill is definately the best bet. IF you're an overclocker and looking for the coolest temps, while sacrificing a little on noise, then go with the GTX360

[V3LOCIP3D3]

everything else is just biased

[XS_RoB]

dang,,,,,,,

ReTuRn of The LiViNg DeAd!

[yngndrw]

I think that it all boils down to which to you think looks best and which company do you prefer. I'd go for the PA120.3, personally.

[gojirasan]

This (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167215&highlight=GTX+360) thread is the best answer you are going to get unfortunately. It looks as though the triple fan GTX *does* beat the PA120.3 in a fair fight, but only if you are willing to go for a more powerful fan. There seems to be a lot of FUD about this issue here maybe because the PA120.3 is so insanely expensive and owners want to rationalize/justify their purchase even in the face of direct benchmark data to the contrary.

I do own a PA120.3 myself because I prefer the option of being able to go slow and quiet if I want to rather than squeezing out a few extra degrees from the GTX at a higher RPM. And the high cost of the PA120.3 is not an issue because the GTX is usually either the same price or even $10 more online. Technicallly, the GTX *is* the 'best' radiator in terms of sheer cooling power, but most people seem to prefer the lower noise option in addition to the much lower pressure drop of the PA120.3. But I don't kid myself that it has the greatest cooling capacity regardless of CFM, because that is simply not the case.

Make no mistake, above 1200 RPM (and probably 1100 as well) with the Yate Loon D12SL-12 that was used in that test, the PA120.3 loses to not only the Black Ice GT Xtreme 360 (deltaT of 5.89 vs 6.44), but (slightly) to the 360 Lite as well. So you may want to ask yourself if 1200 RPM on that Yate Loon fan is too loud for you. And then you should be able to answer your own question pretty well.

Note: if you don't know how loud a D12SL-12 is at 1200 RPM you can check out some of the recordings on SPCR. Here (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page2.html#nexus) is a page with an mp3 of the Nexus version of the fan with a max RPM (the 12 volt recording) of 1000 RPM. Yate Loon's own version of the fan has a max RPM of 1350. Probably a closer approximation would be this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page2.html#yateloon). There is a recording on that page of the Yate Loon D12SM-12 at 7 volts, which works out to 1130 RPM according to SPCR.

[V3LOCIP3D3]

The thing I don't like about the GTX360 is the lack of information on it. Just the fact that there is only one legitimate review that tells you at what RPMs the GTX360 performs best at, and that review isn't even in english. And we still don't know what pump speeds a GTX360 performs best at . . . but I guess you can always just buy it and find that out yourself . . . I'd rather know it before hand so I could buy the right pump for it though :(

[DarthBeavis]

This (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=167215&highlight=GTX+360) thread is the best answer you are going to get unfortunately. It looks as though the triple fan GTX *does* beat the PA120.3 in a fair fight, but only if you are willing to go for a more powerful fan. There seems to be a lot of FUD about this issue here maybe because the PA120.3 is so insanely expensive and owners want to rationalize/justify their purchase even in the face of direct benchmark data to the contrary.

I do own a PA120.3 myself because I prefer the option of being able to go slow and quiet if I want to rather than squeezing out a few extra degrees from the GTX at a higher RPM. And the high cost of the PA120.3 is not an issue because the GTX is usually either the same price or even $10 more online. Technicallly, the GTX *is* the 'best' radiator in terms of sheer cooling power, but most people seem to prefer the lower noise option in addition to the much lower pressure drop of the PA120.3. But I don't kid myself that it has the greatest cooling capacity regardless of CFM, because that is simply not the case.

Make no mistake, above 1200 RPM (and probably 1100 as well) with the Yate Loon D12SL-12 that was used in that test, the PA120.3 loses to not only the Black Ice GT Xtreme 360 (deltaT of 5.89 vs 6.44), but (slightly) to the 360 Lite as well. So you may want to ask yourself if 1200 RPM on that Yate Loon fan is too loud for you. And then you should be able to answer your own question pretty well.

Note: if you don't know how loud a D12SL-12 is at 1200 RPM you can check out some of the recordings on SPCR. Here (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page2.html#nexus) is a page with an mp3 of the Nexus version of the fan with a max RPM (the 12 volt recording) of 1000 RPM. Yate Loon's own version of the fan has a max RPM of 1350. Probably a closer approximation would be this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page2.html#yateloon). There is a recording on that page of the Yate Loon D12SM-12 at 7 volts, which works out to 1130 RPM according to SPCR.


No matter what numbers you throw fanboism will always win out at XS

[Pedalmonkey]

@ V3LOCIP3D3 GTX is more restrictive than a thermochill. plus flow depends on bends in tubing, length of tubing, etc so flow thru a rad will not tell you what is most efficient. You might get better temps with a lower setting on say a D5 b/c of the reduced heat dump. Its all acording to your loop and your parts, so i would just play with it.

:EDIT: Darth i think you have your things mixxed up. the GTX has no legit testing, beside the test from somone in anothe country who does prove a GTX is better in some cases, however the thermochill does have legit excepted testing rite on their site. Thats part of the "fanboyism". Plus we all like silence. yes we know a GTX will perform better with higher RMP/Flow/noise fans but we like peace and quiet so we dont have to live alone and use the internet what its really for. :p, so dont flame out at us becuase we are using our opinions and # that have been excepted by the best of the water cooling comunity.