Crackling, Distortion problems NOT fixed with the Prelude

[ranker]

Well, I guess I can now say I belong to the 100% pissed crowd. I "upgraded" from an X-Fi fatality to a Prelude just to get rid of the sound distortion, audio loss, crackling problems I had with my X-Fi.

There goes $200 down the drain.

[Soulburner]

Have you tried running the card in the lowest PCI slot? How about one of those EMI shielding blankets over it?

Or is this something that goes through the PCI bus?

[zanzabar]

what are u getting crackling in

and have u though of getting a power conditioner for your computer if u have bad power in your aria they are a god send (music and dj/recording stores sell them, including guitar center)

[jtf2]

Well, I guess I can now say I belong to the 100% pissed crowd. I "upgraded" from an X-Fi fatality to a Prelude just to get rid of the sound distortion, audio loss, crackling problems I had with my X-Fi.

There goes $200 down the drain.

i think a few details are in order.what games,etc are you playing when the crackling happens etc.
i have had zero issues so far,with this card-just sheer enjoyment:)

[Miwo]

i think a few details are in order.what games,etc are you playing when the crackling happens etc.
i have had zero issues so far,with this card-just sheer enjoyment:)

Zero issues here as well. on an Intel 975xbx2 board

I've left Master Volume on 50%. I emailed Auzen about what is the ideal setting, and they recommended sticking to default master volume setting (50%). I don't think there is a need to run it any higher :confused: , but setting this too high (ie 100%) could case distortion according to the Auzentech rep that replied to me

Heres what I use:
Crystallizer, EQ, CM3D all off playing music
CM3D on when playing games depending on game

Is it possible you are just overdriving the amp on your z-5500s by playing at levels way too loud? That would give you distortion, clipping, as well. Also try using Analog connections if you havn't already since using Digital connection will make the Z-5500 do the Digital-Analog conversion instead of the Prelude.

[Donnie27]

Most of the folks (certainly not all) have a common problem. Certain nVidia Chipsets. Many of these have to do with slower than standard PCI BUS/slots that have slower response times than what Creative recommends.
Other problematic circumstances.
Over burdened Power Supplies
SLI and even SLI + PPU.
Extreme Overclocking.
nVidia Chipsets.
Out of date BIOS on any chipset.
Poorly setup BIOS.
Chipset/BIOS that only provide FAKE PCI Steering and Sharing. FOr the record, mine is sharing and working perfectly right now.

X-Fi can be a Bad pick for some users.

What is snap crackle pop SCP, When data is missing, the missing data is represented as a S or C or a P. The X-FI is a BUS mastering card and needs its data at a very fast rate and with low latency. If this doesn't happen you get SCP. (NOT THE ONLY REASON)

I saw this first hand. My 939 Asus A8N (16) SLI works perfectly with X-FI though I had to use two different BIOS flashes to get it working. It worked without a BIOS flash on my Gigabyte DS3. I tested a Asus A8N 32 SLI and Bang, SCP but only intermediately or sometimes. Added Second video card and it got much worse. What I saw was a very mixed bag of results with some folks' system working and others screwed to hell and back.

I also noticed that X-Fi in any form loves 100% solid state boards. So with that nice rig you have, X-Fi problems are NOT worth it at all. It hasn't been long enough for you to not be given a RMA. Send that sucker back and get one of the CMedia based Cards. These will do very little on card processing don't rely on super fast response times. So, NO SCP with them.

[ranker]

Ugh, this is a no win situation for me at all. I'm a gamer and it's the reason why I splurged a ridiculous amount of money on my system. You can see my fully detailed system specs below. The ironic thing is that I had the exact same motherboard but with 7900GT's w/ XP and it worked perfectly. Once I upgraded my CPU to a 6700 from an 6600, my 7900GT in SLI to 8800GTX's in SLI, I was greeted with the snap crackle pop problems. I don't think its the motherboard's chipset as it WAS working in a previous build using the same motherboard. The X-Fi also had no problems in my original NF4 build I had for the past 2 years as well.

My BIOS is the most current revision (EVGA rocks as they put out their 30th BIOS update already). I have all the most up to date drivers installed as well for every component. I've also RMA'ed my motherboard 3 different times, thinking it might have been a bad/faulty southbridge as well.

I don't see how switching PCI slots will do anything at all and sounds like snake oil to me. Even if it would help, I can't as I'm running SLI and my waterblocks block the bottom most PCI slot.

Reducing master volume to 50% has helped reduce the frequency of it a tad bit but i still get it every now and then.

The problems are exacerbated when two different sounds are being played such as while gaming and using Vent at the same time or while listening to itunes and using ventrilo at the same time or any other combination.

[zanzabar]

swapping pci slots will change the irq, and since ur using sli, u have an even more limited irq. then on top of that u have an nforce chipset witch limits pci clocks to 30mhz instead of 33


u may also want to go into your bios and set a pci clock delay, and turn pci master read and write on

also unplug the digital audio (the thing that gose from your cd/dvd drive to teh sound card) and game port connectors if u have those plugged in

[Donnie27]

Ugh, this is a no win situation for me at all. I'm a gamer and it's the reason why I splurged a ridiculous amount of money on my system. You can see my fully detailed system specs below. The ironic thing is that I had the exact same motherboard but with 7900GT's w/ XP and it worked perfectly. Once I upgraded my CPU to a 6700 from an 6600, my 7900GT in SLI to 8800GTX's in SLI, I was greeted with the snap crackle pop problems. I don't think its the motherboard's chipset as it WAS working in a previous build using the same motherboard. The X-Fi also had no problems in my original NF4 build I had for the past 2 years as well.

My BIOS is the most current revision (EVGA rocks as they put out their 30th BIOS update already). I have all the most up to date drivers installed as well for every component. I've also RMA'ed my motherboard 3 different times, thinking it might have been a bad/faulty southbridge as well.

I don't see how switching PCI slots will do anything at all and sounds like snake oil to me. Even if it would help, I can't as I'm running SLI and my waterblocks block the bottom most PCI slot.

Reducing master volume to 50% has helped reduce the frequency of it a tad bit but i still get it every now and then.

The problems are exacerbated when two different sounds are being played such as while gaming and using Vent at the same time or while listening to itunes and using ventrilo at the same time or any other combination.

That's why I said send the Card back.

IMHO, the extra stress did it. Not just the extra power drawn from two 8800s but the extra bandwidth they eat up. One is routed through the South Bridge or MCP. Pull one of your cards (the secondary) and see if the SCP stops? I know a guy who had to invest in a 750 watt PCP&C PSU and his problems cleared up, yet another did the same thing and nothing changed.

Yes and those checks/interruptions the PCI-I bus makes, makes the BUS slower/higher overhead, when more devices are enabled (more calls/checks). As one guy tried to point that the PCI BUS has 133MB of bandwidth the latency is a bigger problem.

I wonder about this on the new AMD boards since their Cross-Fire is routed different that nVidia's.

ATI/AMD Layout (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/hirez.asp?file=/hardware/amd_690_chipset_performance/images/01.png)

nVidia 680i Layout (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2869&p=3)

Intel P35 (http://techreport.com/articles.x/12507/2)

Instead of 8 + 8 for its 16X PCI-E total, it splits up like 12 (6GB) + 4 (2GB). that's still a lot of bandwidth.

[ranker]

That's why I said send the Card back.

IMHO, the extra stress did it. Not just the extra power drawn from two 8800s but the extra bandwidth they eat up. One is routed through the South Bridge or MCP. Pull one of your cards (the secondary) and see if the SCP stops? I know a guy who had to invest in a 750 watt PCP&C PSU and his problems cleared up, yet another did the same thing and nothing changed.

Yes and those checks/interruptions the PCI-I bus makes, makes the BUS slower/higher overhead, when more devices are enabled (more calls/checks). As one guy tried to point that the PCI BUS has 133MB of bandwidth the latency is a bigger problem.

I wonder about this on the new AMD boards since their Cross-Fire is routed different that nVidia's.

ATI/AMD Layout (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/hirez.asp?file=/hardware/amd_690_chipset_performance/images/01.png)

nVidia 680i Layout (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2869&p=3)

Intel P35 (http://techreport.com/articles.x/12507/2)

Instead of 8 + 8 for its 16X PCI-E total, it splits up like 12 (6GB) + 4 (2GB). that's still a lot of bandwidth.

I think I finally found the solution to the problem after a days worth of agonizing troubleshooting. The problem seems to have been exacerbated by high volume set by software. After lowering the master volume of the card down to 50%, I noticed the distortions decreased by a small amount. However, they were still present.

After removing almost everything from the computer, I realized that the problems became disappeared. After 3-4 hours of painstaking debugging (oh how I love my computer science background), the culprit was my Logitech webcam w/ built in microphone. After unplugging it, 98% of my distortions/scp's disappeared altogether.

Go figure.

[Miwo]

I think I finally found the solution to the problem after a days worth of agonizing troubleshooting. The problem seems to have been exacerbated by high volume set by software. After lowering the master volume of the card down to 50%, I noticed the distortions decreased by a small amount. However, they were still present.

After removing almost everything from the computer, I realized that the problems became disappeared. After 3-4 hours of painstaking debugging (oh how I love my computer science background), the culprit was my Logitech webcam w/ built in microphone. After unplugging it, 98% of my distortions/scp's disappeared altogether.

Go figure.

glad you figured out the culprit :up: . On my XtremeMusic, I had to set Wave Volume to 50%, Master Volume to 40% to be free of most crackling, but I never quite got the problem completely solved. I don't think it was a USB device in my case, since I am using the same configuration with my Prelude, yet I don't hear any of the SCP in music or games

Just goes to show you that there's no one easy solution for this since everyones configuration is so different

[ROBSCIX]

RANKER, Just to note this card has very HOT outputs for line level. This card outputs 5V. Where as "normal" line level for consumer audio devices is usually around 2V. This is not such a big deal aslong as your aware of it and adjust your levels accordingly. Glad you got it figured out. From all sources I have spoke with the Prelude is solid and stable. No real issues to speak of. A USB webcam caused all that? gotta love PC's;) Is the USB controller on the same IRQ or using the same resources as the Prelude? Should be something along those lines. How do you like the card overall?

[Donnie27]

I think I finally found the solution to the problem after a days worth of agonizing troubleshooting. The problem seems to have been exacerbated by high volume set by software. After lowering the master volume of the card down to 50%, I noticed the distortions decreased by a small amount. However, they were still present.

After removing almost everything from the computer, I realized that the problems became disappeared. After 3-4 hours of painstaking debugging (oh how I love my computer science background), the culprit was my Logitech webcam w/ built in microphone. After unplugging it, 98% of my distortions/scp's disappeared altogether.

Go figure.

Nice going!

Guys I'm using a USB Mouse, USB Keyboard, USB Card reader, USB Joystick, USB Printer, and for a time a USB Scanner. My X-Fi has ALWAYS shared resources with one of my USB Controller Hubs. Some Chipsets and even some Manufactures screw this stuff up.

Now just because these don't share on *some *systems, doesn't mean they don't share or play nicely on all of them. All the way back to the i850 Intel Desktop boards have supported APIC, not to be confused with ACPI. Not only is there 24 IRQ's, but these share better when they have to. The problem with the old Chipsets was that 16 IRQs are not enough and these didn't like sharing.

AthlonXP and Pentium 3 or earlier Processors DON'T support APIC. They can only support it on Dual Processor systems. Since i850, Intel has had more time to refine these kinds of features, nVidia hasn't. That DOESN'T mean nVidia sucks LOL!

[Donnie27]

glad you figured out the culprit :up: . On my XtremeMusic, I had to set Wave Volume to 50%, Master Volume to 40% to be free of most crackling, but I never quite got the problem completely solved. I don't think it was a USB device in my case, since I am using the same configuration with my Prelude, yet I don't hear any of the SCP in music or games

Just goes to show you that there's no one easy solution for this since everyones configuration is so different

Absolutely QFT!

[ranker]

glad you figured out the culprit :up: . On my XtremeMusic, I had to set Wave Volume to 50%, Master Volume to 40% to be free of most crackling, but I never quite got the problem completely solved. I don't think it was a USB device in my case, since I am using the same configuration with my Prelude, yet I don't hear any of the SCP in music or games

Just goes to show you that there's no one easy solution for this since everyones configuration is so different

See, the only thing that makes me feel stupid is now is that I bought this card just to replace my X-Fi Fatality due to the crackling noises. I'm pretty sure that if I place my old Fatality card in, it won't have the same problems anymore. That means I spent $200 for not that large of an upgrade now.


RANKER, Just to note this card has very HOT outputs for line level. This card outputs 5V. Where as "normal" line level for consumer audio devices is usually around 2V. This is not such a big deal aslong as your aware of it and adjust your levels accordingly. Glad you got it figured out. From all sources I have spoke with the Prelude is solid and stable. No real issues to speak of. A USB webcam caused all that? gotta love PC's;) Is the USB controller on the same IRQ or using the same resources as the Prelude? Should be something along those lines. How do you like the card overall?

I'm not too much of a HT person but I'm guessing that due to the higher output voltage, the sound output can suffer from irregularities at high volume.

The Prelude's sound is better than the X-Fi's when playing music. I'm only an audiophile in training as my brother is the DJ/musician that helps me pick all the differences apart. Whether is worth the $200 price tag for some of us that upgraded from a X-Fi fatality or better is another question. I'm satisfied with the card, but just not with the price nor with the half done drivers.


Nice going!

Guys I'm using a USB Mouse, USB Keyboard, USB Card reader, USB Joystick, USB Printer, and for a time a USB Scanner. My X-Fi has ALWAYS shared resources with one of my USB Controller Hubs. Some Chipsets and even some Manufactures screw this stuff up.

Now just because these don't share on *some *systems, doesn't mean they don't share or play nicely on all of them. All the way back to the i850 Intel Desktop boards have supported APIC, not to be confused with ACPI. Not only is there 24 IRQ's, but these share better when they have to. The problem with the old Chipsets was that 16 IRQs are not enough and these didn't like sharing.

AthlonXP and Pentium 3 or earlier Processors DON'T support APIC. They can only support it on Dual Processor systems. Since i850, Intel has had more time to refine these kinds of features, nVidia hasn't. That DOESN'T mean nVidia sucks LOL!

I've got USB devices up the ying yang as well with camera's, usb sticks, ipods, mice, keyboards, you name it. I believe I went through at least 100 configurations of components before I narrowed it down to just the logitech USB webcam. I don't believe it was an IRQ conflict because I checked and double checked the resources assigned, but something with it definitely caused the problem.

[ChaosMinionX]

Tooo many USB devices IMO :)

[Donnie27]

See, the only thing that makes me feel stupid is now is that I bought this card just to replace my X-Fi Fatality due to the crackling noises. I'm pretty sure that if I place my old Fatality card in, it won't have the same problems anymore. That means I spent $200 for not that large of an upgrade now.



I'm not too much of a HT person but I'm guessing that due to the higher output voltage, the sound output can suffer from irregularities at high volume.

The Prelude's sound is better than the X-Fi's when playing music. I'm only an audiophile in training as my brother is the DJ/musician that helps me pick all the differences apart. Whether is worth the $200 price tag for some of us that upgraded from a X-Fi fatality or better is another question. I'm satisfied with the card, but just not with the price nor with the half done drivers.



I've got USB devices up the ying yang as well with camera's, usb sticks, ipods, mice, keyboards, you name it. I believe I went through at least 100 configurations of components before I narrowed it down to just the logitech USB webcam. I don't believe it was an IRQ conflict because I checked and double checked the resources assigned, but something with it definitely caused the problem.

ChaosMinionX is right I was using too many USB devices that's why I moved the Printer and Scanner to my number 2 computer. It sill uses PS2 KB and no card readers or anything. I'm networked to it through #2. Number two computer has an Audigy 2 ZS. I had wanted a Prelude to replace my X-FI and move it to #2, oh well.

It's not an IRQ conflict like the old days with lock ups and etc.... It's a conflict like trying to RUN Software Raid 5 while backing up the C: Partition. It still works but slower than normal. Moving data at a slower speed because waiting out slowdowns are no big deal. That's not the case with too many devices causes even a 20% slow down. Slowdowns mean lost data and that means missing sounds are replaced by SCP!

[Jodiuh]

Somewhat OT, but what would you say if I told you guys:

GRAW2 set for 128 voices
X-Fi (Fatal1ty and Elite)
DFI Infinity P965-S, Abit IP35 Pro = crackle
EVGA 680i, Asus P5B Deluxe = no crackle

I'm only using 1 gpu and no wacky usb devices. I've probably posted this all over the place already, but do you guys think it's related to the board's PCB layer count?

[ChaosMinionX]

I would say interesting, but more than likely has something to do with the PCI frequency.

[Jodiuh]

Hmmm...well, changing the pci lat for the x-fi to 128 w/ the lat tool fixes the issue on the Abit, but not the DFI.

[Donnie27]

Hmmm...well, changing the pci lat for the x-fi to 128 w/ the lat tool fixes the issue on the Abit, but not the DFI.

Let me dance around this from a different direction. Knowing what I know and if I'm using a Core 2 processor, it seems that the Intel Chipsets have had fewer (not problem free for sure) problems. I'm not going to spend more money on nVidia when I've experience more* problems first hand with them. Note this was on Sc-939 and AM2 not some POS old as dirt VIA system with a TBird. Even at $178 shipped it costs more than my motherboard when I bought it for $146.95 shipped. I'd get another mobo maybe?

If I'm using AMD, I'd look at those folks who are not having problems and use what they're using.

I'd really hoped Creative's I/O Drive would work with this card as well. No, spending another 50 to 60 Dollars on the X-Tension card is BS IMHO when even later the HDMI add on ships, for a premium as well:down: But if I were using anything other than a X-Fi with the I/O Drive I might already have a Prelude.

[ranker]

Further testing shows that the crackle/pop ONLY occurs when using the built in microphone of my Logitech webcam. I can connect the webcam and use it for videoconferencing and be gaming at the same time and not experience any problems. I guess the OS must see the USB microphone as another sound card and fight over the OS's sound resources.

So, the issue has been totally isolated and resolved in my case.

[Jodiuh]

Oh, I'm def stickin' to the Intel chipset...just not sure if I wanna ditch the Abit because of a couple small flaws. It treats my C2D/G.Skill w/ respect unlike the RAM killing P5B I had. :D

[Donnie27]

Oh, I'm def stickin' to the Intel chipset...just not sure if I wanna ditch the Abit because of a couple small flaws. It treats my C2D/G.Skill w/ respect unlike the RAM killing P5B I had. :D

Yepp, the mobo section here is great and not just for extreme overclocking.:)
But when it comes to sound, Creative Labs is like the Borg, resistance is futile.
BTW, I wanted to send that SQ-2500 to one of the sites for a review. I liked the card so much I couldn't bare to part with it.

[Donnie27]

Further testing shows that the crackle/pop ONLY occurs when using the built in microphone of my Logitech webcam. I can connect the webcam and use it for videoconferencing and be gaming at the same time and not experience any problems. I guess the OS must see the USB microphone as another sound card and fight over the OS's sound resources.

So, the issue has been totally isolated and resolved in my case.

Nice work Ranker:D