Flow meter with flow readout - installed in PC (Ton of Pics!)

[MegadetHCl]

Hello all. Some time ago, I posted a thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64300) where I first used a Proteus flow meter connected to a panel meter that showed the flow through the loop. Well, since that time, I had a misfortune of shorting out that particular flow meter.

Some time ago, I acquired a new generation of these flow meters, and revived my plans of installing a flow meter again in my system. Since I am running two loops, I upgraded my previous design to be able to handle input from two flow meters. So far, the system has been tested outside the computer, here are some pics.

The flow meter, made from stainless steel, with 1/2" ID barbs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/01_resize.jpg


It has connections for voltage output proportional to the flow, relay contacts that can be triggered by an adjustable trip-point, and green/red status LEDs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/02_resize.jpg


While polishing

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/03_resize.jpg


Finished

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/04_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/05_resize.jpg


The complete setup, including the flow meter, junction box, and the panel meter with LEDs and switches for two alarms (activated by the trip-point)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/06_resize.jpg


Junction box that takes input from two flow meters and sends them to the panel meter

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/07_resize.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/09_resize.jpg


Panel meter in OK state. Note the green LED indicating flow above the trip-point. The meter shows flow in GPM.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/10_resize.jpg


Flow at the trip-point. Both LEDs are ON, but no alarm.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/11_resize.jpg


Flow below trip-point. Red LED is ON, as well as the buzzer alarm. The switches with blue LEDs turn off the buzzer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/12_resize.jpg


The beauty of this panel meter is that besides being a regular voltmeter, it has an option to scale the output. Since the flow meter outputs 5V DC at 4.5GPM, I can set the panel meter to show "4.5" when it is receiving 5V DC.

What do you guys think? I know the system is quite bulky, especially with the weight of the stainless steel flow meter that can not be supported by tubing alone. On the upside, it does offer the ability to monitor the flow, as well as activate the alarm and possibly shut down the PC if the flow drops below a certain value.

[welshtom]

I think its awesome mate - great job indeed.!

[AllAgainstPaul]

Is there a minimum operating temp of that flow meter?

[MegadetHCl]

Is there a minimum operating temp of that flow meter?

Liquid Operating Limits: Temperature -40 to 140°C -40 to 284°F
Electronics must be thermally isolated from flow sensor at temperatures above 85 °C and below dew point.
Pressure: 1720 kPa 250 psi
Kinematic Viscosity To 120 centistokes

[virtualrain]

Very cool stuff. :up:

What's the restriction of this flow meter like?

[Pete]

I like it but a simpler vwrsion of flow display only, no alarm, no LEDS, no option on that just the LCD for flow.

You make this all ya self?

If so, PM me please with a price

[MrToad]

I've been toying with the idea of a flow meter for months.

However, what puts me off every time is the restriction.

The ones that are within my budget that I can source, in the predicted flow rates (2 - 2.2 GPM) range from .33 to .7 bar pressure drop, depending on model and choice of fittings.

That's the same restriction as adding an extra Apogee GTX (best case scenario) or an extra Stealth (worst case scenario) just for the sake of measuring flow.

And that's forgetting about using a filter, which should be used unless you are extremely confident about the cleanliness of your loop. If you add a filter, you'd rather shoot your own foot :p:

Not an easy choice.

[The_Beast]

very nice :up:

[CrazyJoe]

Way outside my price range.

Company website here - proteus (http://www.proteusind.com/products/flow_switch.html)

Starts at $295.00 ... :eek:

[virtualrain]

I've been toying with the idea of a flow meter for months.

However, what puts me off every time is the restriction.

The ones that are within my budget that I can source, in the predicted flow rates (2 - 2.2 GPM) range from .33 to .7 bar pressure drop, depending on model and choice of fittings.

That's the same restriction as adding an extra Apogee GTX (best case scenario) or an extra Stealth (worst case scenario) just for the sake of measuring flow.

And that's forgetting about using a filter, which should be used unless you are extremely confident about the cleanliness of your loop. If you add a filter, you'd rather shoot your own foot :p:

Not an easy choice.

Agreed. While this is a very nice implementation of a flow meter, I really don't see the need.

I had a Remag flow meter in my last build and I found the benefits to be negligable. Flow never changed - so why monitor it?... Of course if you are gaurding against pump failure, it can be an option, but there are numerous work-arounds that don't involve impacting flow.

If anyone is really curious about their flow rate they should just do the bucket test or use the flow rate estimator spreadsheet.

Maybe in some rare cases, it's worth it, but for the average water cooler, a flow meter does more harm than good.

-Chris

[MegadetHCl]

Regarding the usefullness of this setup, I can give a good example from my previous setup. It had a similar design, with a panel meter showing the flow and the buzzer alarm triggered by the flow meter's trip-point. The computer has been running fine for a while, until one night I heard the buzzer alarm going off (woke me up, that's how loud it was). I ran up to the computer, checked the pump (D4), and didn't feel it vibrate, nor was there any visible flow in the reservoir. Turned out that the pump's molex became loose for some reason and obviously cut off the power to it. So, that night I was glad that I got a very early warning. I can already hear the critics say that the BIOS option for the CPU temperature would have shut down the system, and I had and always will have this option enabled, but it would have taken some time for the temperature to rise to the preset value, and who knows what effect the hot water in the loop would have.

I am not sure how restrictive this flow meter is, it has a free-rotating nylon paddle wheel inside on a stainless steel shaft. I can set it spinning just by mildly exhaling air into the flow meter, so it doesn't seem like it would affect the flow the same way as a CPU waterblock.

[virtualrain]

Regarding the usefullness of this setup, I can give a good example from my previous setup. It had a similar design, with a panel meter showing the flow and the buzzer alarm triggered by the flow meter's trip-point. The computer has been running fine for a while, until one night I heard the buzzer alarm going off (woke me up, that's how loud it was). I ran up to the computer, checked the pump (D4), and didn't feel it vibrate, nor was there any visible flow in the reservoir. Turned out that the pump's molex became loose for some reason and obviously cut off the power to it. So, that night I was glad that I got a very early warning. I can already hear the critics say that the BIOS option for the CPU temperature would have shut down the system, and I had and always will have this option enabled, but it would have taken some time for the temperature to rise to the preset value, and who knows what effect the hot water in the loop would have.

I am not sure how restrictive this flow meter is, it has a free-rotating nylon paddle wheel inside on a stainless steel shaft. I can set it spinning just by mildly exhaling air into the flow meter, so it doesn't seem like it would affect the flow the same way as a CPU waterblock.

I definitely understand... for each his own. If your pump doesn't have an RPM output... relying on the BIOS alone is not ideal. If your pump does have an RPM output, then you can easily use Speedfan or something to sound an alarm (or play Stairway to Heaven if appropriate) instead of using a flow meter.

[MrToad]

Regarding pressure drop, the curve is in the third page of the manufacturer's brochure:

http://www.proteusind.com/500/500DS.pdf

There's two versions of the meter, being the one the OP is using the one with the highest flow rating (4.5 gpm) and the lowest pressure drop.

It curves from 0.75 psi @ 1.5 gpm to 2 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

The Fuzion (I had to go for a less restrictive block to make the comparison this time, because apparently when talking flow meters, the restriction is inversely proportional to the amount of money you fork out on the purchase) curves:

From 1.5 psi @ 1.5 gpm to 3 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

And the MCW60 curves:

From 0.75 psi to @ 1.5 gpm to 1.9 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

All these have been extrapolated from the graphs published by the relevant manufacturers.

So, restriction-wise is like have an extra MCW60 in your loop.

[MegadetHCl]

Regarding pressure drop, the curve is in the third page of the manufacturer's brochure:

http://www.proteusind.com/500/500DS.pdf

There's two versions of the meter, being the one the OP is using the one with the highest flow rating (4.5 gpm) and the lowest pressure drop.

It curves from 0.75 psi @ 1.5 gpm to 2 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

The Fuzion (I had to go for a less restrictive block to make the comparison this time, because apparently when talking flow meters, the restriction is inversely proportional to the amount of money you fork out on the purchase) curves:

From 1.5 psi @ 1.5 gpm to 3 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

And the MCW60 curves:

From 0.75 psi to @ 1.5 gpm to 1.9 psi @ 2.5 gpm.

All these have been extrapolated from the graphs published by the relevant manufacturers.

So, restriction-wise is like have an extra MCW60 in your loop.

I connected a second flow meter in series with the first one (one after another), and the registered flow dropped by 0.2 GPM after adding the 2nd flow meter (from 1.31 to 1.11 GPM), which is somewhat close to the pressure drop you mentioned in the pdf (around 0.6 GPM drop at 1.3 GPM flow). Since I undervold my D4 pump slightly by powering it with a 20 watt rheostat to avoid excessive foaming/bubbling in the bay reservoir, the act of adding the flow meter to the loop will allow me to run the pump at full voltage, and hopefully the pressure drop due to flow meter will be offset by increased flow from pump running at full power.

[MegadetHCl]

I'm back, and I bring you lots of pics of the flow meter installed in my (by now) antique case. I have to publish a warning - what you are about to see may trigger powerful emotions of confusion and even anger. Many will say that there is absolutely no point in updating a 5-year old machine that is still running on nforce2 motherboard. Well, I am doing all of this, just as I do anything else to my computer, out of sheer enthusiasm and modding spirit, this is practically the only opportunity for me to use my tools and come up with solutions to arising problems.

OK, here we go. Out with the old. Notice the nice green build-up on 7/16" ID Masterkleer tubing after a year or two of use. That residue could be partially removed by lab-grade acetone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/02.jpg

I needed to create a bit more space in the center of the case, so I designed a new mounting bracket for the pump and moved it closer to the 2nd radiator.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/03.jpg

The Proteus flow meter that I'm using has 7/16"-18 SAE threads, which are mainly used on hydraulic equipment. The fittings that you can see in my initial testing are actually DangerDen's Hi-Flo fittings that, by pure chance, had the thread that I needed. Unfortunately, due to the extremely cramped conditions inside the case (as you will see), I needed angled barbs. After doing a lot of searching and not finding what I needed, I decided to make my own. I mated a 3/4" barb elbow (Loew's home improvement) to the stainless steel hydraulic fitting that came with the meter (basically forcefully threaded the stainless steel fitting into the brass elbow). Since the hydraulic fittings had a pretty narrow ID size, I first drilled them out (on the top, you can see before and after drilling out, and on the bottom the assembled elbow).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/05.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/04.jpg

Since the entire flow meter is made from stainless steel and is quite heavy, I designed a simple bracket that bolts to the rail of the case and supports the weight of the flow meter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/06.jpg

Everything connected. There were no leaks during the testing, and you have no idea how happy I was, as disassembling this jumble of parts and tubing would be a nightmare.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/08.jpg

...and done!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/09.jpg

Due to extemely short lengths of tubing used in my loop (reservoir => D4 pump => 2x120 BlackIce radiator => Maze4 CPU waterblock => Proteus flow meter), I am able to get close to 2 GPM flow, which is more than enough.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/11.jpg

Well, this is how the computer sits right now. I am thinking of installing the second flow meter into the GPU/Northblock loop, since my flow monitoring system can read from two flow meters.

Thanks for your time! Hope you enjoyed the ride.

[MaxxxRacer]

title updated. neat toy you have there. got any pressure drop specs on it.

[MrToad]

title updated. neat toy you have there. got any pressure drop specs on it.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2389061&postcount=14

http://www.proteusind.com/500/500DS.pdf

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2390786&postcount=15

[rogard]

Awesome work!

And in such a small case!

Are you tempted to get a bigger case?

[MegadetHCl]

Are you tempted to get a bigger case?

But why? It all fits! :D

Wait till I put in the 2nd flow meter at the bottom of the case....

[MegadetHCl]

I told you guys that I'd be back. Well, feast your eyes on this update.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2flowmeters1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2flowmeters2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2flowmeters3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2flowmeters4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2flowmeters5.jpg

As you can see, I installed the second flow meter into the GPU/Northbridge loop powered by a small CSP-MAG II pump. While the CPU loop, powered by a Laing D4, is getting 1.98 GPM, the GPU/Northbridge loop is getting 0.48 GPM. Maybe I will upgrade the little pump to another D4/D5 in the future.

And the only way to reach anything inside the case is done using tweezers.

[Spawne32]

doesnt even look like a computer anymore :lol:

[MegadetHCl]

Final update, at least it looks like one. Acting as a self-fulfilling prophecy, the little CSP-MAG pump died shortly after I completed the previous update, and I finally replaced it with a D5 pump. Getting close to 2GPM on the CPU loop, and 1GPM on the GFX/Northbridge loop (running the new D5 pump on setting 3).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2pumps2meters01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2pumps2meters02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2pumps2meters03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/megadethcl/Proteus%20500/2pumps2meters04.jpg

And I whole-heartedly agree with the above post by Spawne32, the computer parts are nicely hidden by the watercooling gear!

[shifty803]

I like the "Calibration due 8/27/05" on the side. hmmm.... I wonder how much it can get off by...

[rafrag]

looks simply awesome!!!
BTW can u reset bios without disassembling half of the loop ;-)

[MegadetHCl]

looks simply awesome!!!
BTW can u reset bios without disassembling half of the loop ;-)

Thanks! I just need to add more articulation points to my forearms and fingers...

[rafrag]

lol

[Jedda]

Very cool! lol
What ever rings your bell I say. I dig Hall effect devices. Replaced all my joystick pots with small hall sensors a while back.

[AAjax]

Way outside my price range.

Company website here - proteus (http://www.proteusind.com/products/flow_switch.html)

Starts at $295.00 ... :eek:
EEK! pricey but way cool all the same :)

[CyberDruid]

I like it. As Others said above it no longer looks like a computer:up:

[RubberDuck]

Very nice :rocker: I can see alot of work went in to that and man I'm jealous :yepp: