Cops soon are going to bust ya with this device

[Duh]

Soon cops' flashlights might not only temporarily blind bad guys: they might also stop them in their tracks by disorienting them and making them nauseatingly sick. When suspects turn away or reel, cops or border-security agents can nab and handcuff them.

The flashlight, which is being developed for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), uses a range finder to measure the distance to the target's eyes so that it can adjust the energy of the light to a level that won't cause permanent damage. Then it rapidly shoots out pulses of light from an array of ultrabright light emitting diodes (LEDs).


Complete article in my blog (http://myindafatigable.blogspot.com/2007/08/incapacitating-flashlight.html).
Trackback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trackback) URL to the source of this data has been provided.

if breaks any rules or if it has been already published this news , jut rip my thread off

J

[Zytek_Fan]

Ah yes the flashlight that causes uncontrollable vomiting...

[WRC]

just don't run! :rofl:

[Anemone]

So much for "step into the light where we can see you"

Um, no I just ate thanks...

[Kunaak]

anything that helps the cops do thier jobs, and get home safe to thier kids and family, and lowers the potential need to shoot suspects resisting arrest, is good I say.

[Anemone]

agreed :)

[nn_step]

we have Air tazers, what else do they need to detain people?

[k0nsl]

we have Air tazers, what else do they need to detain people?

Anything to get the scum off the streets is good enough for myself...

[Jimmer411]

anything that helps the cops do thier jobs, and get home safe to thier kids and family, and lowers the potential need to shoot suspects resisting arrest, is good I say.



The more people they shoot the less people we have in jail wasting our tax money ;)

[nn_step]

Anything to get the scum off the streets is good enough for myself...
Here is a simple question for you, define what you mean by Scum on the streets and how many people do you know that fit into that category?
Because Honestly I don't know anyone who really fits into the "scum of the streets" category but I do no people who committed victim-less crimes (handing out fliers, flying an American flag upside down in protest, etc) but I wouldn't by any measure define them as Scum that deserve such treatment.

The more people they shoot the less people we have in jail wasting our tax money ;)
Did you know 73% of everyone in Jail committed a victim-less crime?

[revenant]

ahh.. seems like the sick sticks from Minority Report.. but in a different form. Those sticks in MR which used an electrical zap to cause the intense nausea were based off technology which was being developed for future use.. perhaps this is what it evolved into..

[FA7]

Did you know 73% of everyone in Jail committed a victim-less crime?

There's a victim or potential victim with nearly every crime...

[nn_step]

There's a victim or potential victim with nearly every crime...

ok, let us assume I get really wasted and get pass out on a sidewalk, who exactly am I hurting?
or an even easier one, I'm at my house alone and I smoke pot, who exactly am I hurting if it was legally prescribed in California but the DEA can and has put people in jail for using that prescription.

[CyberDruid]

I have a modded Maglight with an overvolted Halogen lamp that produces over 900 Lumens...that's my favorite non lethal weapon..scorched retinas.

[Mortal]

ok, let us assume I get really wasted and get pass out on a sidewalk, who exactly am I hurting?

Why, yourself of course! You'd be arrested for your own protection 'cause the world needs its nn_step magic! :D :yepp: :fact:

... sorry fellas, continue the debate! :p:

[nn_step]

Why, yourself of course! You'd be arrested for your own protection 'cause the world needs its nn_step magic! :D :yepp: :fact:

... sorry fellas, continue the debate! :p:

that is the thing you can't victimize yourself and to assume that someone has more right to my life and safety than myself violates the basic principals of personal liberty which are the must important parts of a practical, just society.

[ak_47_boy]

Sorry but no, not even a flashlamp could do that. Permanent eye damage from an LED? LOL, it would take a few 25watt LED's to damage your eyes from a meter away. This flashlight must take about 70AA's.

[Mortal]

that is the thing you can't victimize yourself and to assume that someone has more right to my life and safety than myself violates the basic principals of personal liberty which are the must important parts of a practical, just society.

Aw, you took the light-heartedness out of my post. :(

(just for the sake of being OT for once, I completely agree with what you just said.)

[Duh]

anything that helps the cops do thier jobs, and get home safe to thier kids and family, and lowers the potential need to shoot suspects resisting arrest, is good I say.

thats the way I think :)

[k0nsl]

Here is a simple question for you, define what you mean by Scum on the streets and how many people do you know that fit into that category?
Because Honestly I don't know anyone who really fits into the "scum of the streets" category but I do no people who committed victim-less crimes (handing out fliers, flying an American flag upside down in protest, etc) but I wouldn't by any measure define them as Scum that deserve such treatment.

I'm generally thinking about murderers, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers. I don't know one person who fit in that category. Thank G_d.

[Jimmer411]

Did you know 73% of everyone in Jail committed a victim-less crime?



How many of those 73% were arrested at gun point?


Now of the criminals that are arrested at gun point how many of them were committing victim less crimes? I guarantee grossly different numbers in that situation.


Drug dealers that would rather shoot it out than go to jail, murderers and bank robbers etc... are the types that are taken down at gun point and are the ones that these non lethal devices are developed to take down.

They have no problem killing the cops so why should the cops have a problem killing them? ANYONE who draws a weapon on a police officer should be shot where they stand, PERIOD.

[turtle]

Good job nn for fighting the good fight on this one. I ask these questions quite often to my more conservative friends, especially the pot/protest questions.

I know things like this will be overused, because (just like with tazers) cops have a tendency to power trip when they have non-lethal force available. I've seen it enough times to know it's true.

I know the escalation steps cops have to go through before they can use a tazer (it was printed not-too-long ago in our local paper), and one too many times I've seen them skip a step or two.

For instance, take the drunken guy on the sidewalk. I've seen cops whom when the person doesn't respond to their direction (because they are that out of it) they tazer them before even trying to confront them just by yanking them up/hand-cuffing them. It's sick.

[nn_step]

I'm generally thinking about murderers, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers. I don't know one person who fit in that category. Thank G_d.

there is a reason for that, because there are extremely few people that commit such crimes. (less than 1/6 in prison)
We have very little real crime because most people are good people.
For example if you walk on the left side of the sidewalk in New York City, you can be arrested and sentenced to 2 years in jail?

The problem isn't we need better tools to fight criminals or more money for jails; we need to stop treating people who don't commit crimes as criminals.

[n00b 0f l337]

Or here is a simple rule, forced to be the victim of the crime one has been charged and convicted of.
Would hate to be that guy who accidentally killed his boyfriend in a way that involved a spatula and something vastly overstretched ;

[alpha_tot]

OverDose the habitual drug users.


Whats wrong with being a habitual drug user? As long as youre not causing harm to anyone else, I see nothing wrong with it. You should be able to do whatever the hell you want to your own body... If you are causing damage to someone/something else, then there are laws against that, they could get you for another crime. I dont understand why everyone sees the drugs as the problem... its the people. Some people enjoy recreational drug use without causing problems, theres no point turning them into criminals.

[breakfromyou]

This is going to be abused pretty badly. At least the cops will be using this instead of pulling out their gun the first chance they get.

[k0nsl]

For example if you walk on the left side of the sidewalk in New York City, you can be arrested and sentenced to 2 years in jail?

I would be a repeat offender. What odd laws...

[nn_step]

I would be a repeat offender. What odd laws...

It is one of many "victim-less" crimes that I believe have absolutely NO right to be laws in any free and Just country.

[Ironmon1]

Whats wrong with being a habitual drug user? As long as youre not causing harm to anyone else, I see nothing wrong with it. You should be able to do whatever the hell you want to your own body... If you are causing damage to someone/something else, then there are laws against that, they could get you for another crime. I dont understand why everyone sees the drugs as the problem... its the people. Some people enjoy recreational drug use without causing problems, theres no point turning them into criminals.

The problem with that is that some drugs cause violent crimes. What do people do when the get their first hit of crack, come down, and don't have money to buy more? they rob banks, convenience stores, and generally do bad stuff. It's like the drinking age: if people weren't being stupid and driving drunk, it wouldn't be there.

[nn_step]

The problem with that is that some drugs cause violent crimes. What do people do when the get their first hit of crack, come down, and don't have money to buy more? they rob banks, convenience stores, and generally do bad stuff. It's like the drinking age: if people weren't being stupid and driving drunk, it wouldn't be there.

The exact same arguments were made regarding Alcohol and we all should know how well prohibition turned out. At the same time Violent crimes committed to buy drugs drop significantly if the drugs themselves are affordable. Even addicts prefer to work 9-5 jobs to pay for their addictions rather than committing crime to afford it.
Now if you wish to tax such substances (an excise tax) it is actually permitted in the us constitution and has been applied to substances such as Caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol

[oohms]

eh send it over here... lots of violent scum in the areas i hang around that could use some of this :D

[CyberDruid]

You think victimless crime is a prob...what about all those crimeless victims (as seen on Dr. Phil) surely tazer is too good for them...

[MaxxxRacer]

The more people they shoot the less people we have in jail wasting our tax money ;)

MY though exactly. Not exactly a moral one, but still kinda funny. On the flip side, there is alot of tax dollars spent to investigate the shootings of suspects and possibly the cop goes to jail.

[Major_A]

Drug use is no okay. Pot is a gateway drug for most users. Then they take the next drug then the next drug, etc... etc... At some point these people become a liability. They are going to do what ever it takes to get their drugs.

Or the simple reason, it's against the law.

[CyberDruid]

Drug use is no okay. Pot is a gateway drug for most users. Then they take the next drug then the next drug, etc... etc... At some point these people become a liability. They are going to do what ever it takes to get their drugs.

Or the simple reason, it's against the law.

Mother's Milk is a gateway drug...hence my uncontrollable craving for those lovely jugs from which it is dispensed... :D

[nn_step]

Drug use is no okay. Pot is a gateway drug for most users. Then they take the next drug then the next drug, etc... etc... At some point these people become a liability. They are going to do what ever it takes to get their drugs.

Or the simple reason, it's against the law.

now I want to ask yourself why.
For example tobacco kills more people Per day than all illegal drugs do in the course of a year.
So why are they illegal if they are statistically safer.
By extension caffeine (the vital component of the coffee and soda that people drink) is a chemical relative of the amphetamine family and is highly addictive and kills more people per year than Crack does. So shouldn't we make it illegal and throw anyone who drinks coffee in jail? :coffee:

[CyberDruid]

I think this device has a lot of yet to be uncovered uses.

For instance someone wants to cut down on their time on the PC (very addictive this PC stuff...dangerous really...erodes the moral fiber of our youth) so mount one of those light cannons on the monitor like a webcam and when it's time to log off you get a taste and then if you just keep posting and posting it gives you a blast and you hurl guts onto the keyboard...

[Major_A]

Tobacco is still legal because it has been legal for so long that it be very hard to declare it illegal. There is also the tobacco industry, they would spend billions of dollars to keep tobacco legal in America. I smoke and I think it should be illegal. When I have kids I don't want to have the tobacco speech.

Coffee is no longer served in prisons/jails for the argument you just made. But if you try and take my Dr. Pepper from me we'll have a problem.:D

[MrChubz]

now I want to ask yourself why.
For example tobacco kills more people Per day than all illegal drugs do in the course of a year.
So why are they illegal if they are statistically safer.
By extension caffeine (the vital component of the coffee and soda that people drink) is a chemical relative of the amphetamine family and is highly addictive and kills more people per year than Crack does. So shouldn't we make it illegal and throw anyone who drinks coffee in jail? :coffee:
Because banning caffeine and tobacco would probably hurt the economy too much. :rolleyes: I agree with you about most of the stuff you're saying. America needs to cut the "protect you from yourself" bull crap.

[nn_step]

Tobacco is still legal because it has been legal for so long that it be very hard to declare it illegal. There is also the tobacco industry, they would spend billions of dollars to keep tobacco legal in America. I smoke and I think it should be illegal. When I have kids I don't want to have the tobacco speech.

Coffee is no longer served in prisons/jails for the argument you just made. But if you try and take my Dr. Pepper from me we'll have a problem.:D

I hate to tell you this dude but Marijuana and the rest of the illegal drugs were completely legal up until the 1930s. (infact the US military supplied solders with Amphetamines to allow them to stay awake during prolonged combat operations, during WW2, Korea, and Vietnam) Also the majority of the reason for banning Marijuana and similar drugs were because it was an excuse to arrest the communities that most often had access to it (I'll give you a clue, it wasn't white people[African Americans and Mexicans] )

In fact the US imports millions of tons of Hemp (the plant marijuana is based on) for our textile industries because we are not allowed to grow industrial (the version you can't get high off of) hemp in America.

Don't get me wrong, I don't promote the usage of marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol. I just believe it isn't our job to say what people can and can not do with their own bodies and lives, rather we should provide education and set a reasonal minimal age. [Which kinda brings up the drinking age in America, considering we are allowed to die for our country when we are 18 but we can't drink until we are 21; just doesn't seem fair]

[Rock&Roll]

I wonder what the fleshlight version of this will be like:rofl:

[alpha_tot]

I smoke and I think it should be illegal.

No offense, but if you think its that bad, why dont you quit? You obviously feel that the buzz you get is worth the negative consequences, or you would have done something about it by now...

I know that can be hard to do, but if you're serious about it, its easy to get help. The alternative is to make a bunch of addicts into criminals, that will cause a lot of the social problems associated with "illegal drug users" that have been brought up. Like fast food and coke, its just a health problem, it shouldnt be a legal matter.

[Major_A]

No offense, but if you think its that bad, why dont you quit? You obviously feel that the buzz you get is worth the negative consequences, or you would have done something about it by now...
I've tried several times. I have succeeded several times. I somehow find myself smoking again. I can make all kinds of excuses why I do it but there really isn't a good reason. I don't get a "buzz", and I haven't for a really long time.

[PanteraGSTK]

I've tried several times. I have succeeded several times. I somehow find myself smoking again. I can make all kinds of excuses why I do it but there really isn't a good reason. I don't get a "buzz", and I haven't for a really long time.

Most people start smoking for the "Buzz", and when it wears off you are addicted. Funny how that works out....

[naokaji]

Tobacco is still legal because it has been legal for so long that it be very hard to declare it illegal. There is also the tobacco industry, they would spend billions of dollars to keep tobacco legal in America. I smoke and I think it should be illegal. When I have kids I don't want to have the tobacco speech.

Coffee is no longer served in prisons/jails for the argument you just made. But if you try and take my Dr. Pepper from me we'll have a problem.:D

do you have any clue just how much money the government makes form taxes on that stuff?
thats why they wont ban it. because you are not going to vote for a government that tells you that they will have to increase the income tax to cover the loss form banning tobacco.

[Duh]

I wonder what the fleshlight version of this will be like:rofl:


I ve provided a link in the article which leads to the source of this information, In which I think there was one or two photos you can gather.

cheers
J

[Vapor]

Guys, let's all remember this is the NEWS section. If you want to discuss victimless crimes, make a new thread in Speak Freely.

[KoHaN69]

that is the thing you can't victimize yourself and to assume that someone has more right to my life and safety than myself violates the basic principals of personal liberty which are the must important parts of a practical, just society.

Exactly!

If thinking otherwise: Shouldn't an attempted suicide be judged as attempted murder?


ANYONE who draws a weapon on a police officer should be shot where they stand, PERIOD.

Now that's some gooood ol' American logic there!!



The problem with that is that some drugs cause violent crimes. What do people do when the get their first hit of crack, come down, and don't have money to buy more? they rob banks, convenience stores, and generally do bad stuff. It's like the drinking age: if people weren't being stupid and driving drunk, it wouldn't be there.

You're suggesting that all habitual drug users are down-right addicts.
Anyone who obides the drinking age must be over-sheltered or psycnologically defunt.


Drug use is no okay. Pot is a gateway drug for most users. Then they take the next drug then the next drug, etc... etc... At some point these people become a liability. They are going to do what ever it takes to get their drugs.

Or the simple reason, it's against the law.

Hey everyone! Grandpa's here!!



I think this device has a lot of yet to be uncovered uses.

For instance someone wants to cut down on their time on the PC (very addictive this PC stuff...dangerous really...erodes the moral fiber of our youth) so mount one of those light cannons on the monitor like a webcam and when it's time to log off you get a taste and then if you just keep posting and posting it gives you a blast and you hurl guts onto the keyboard...


QFT- perfect at cybercafe's when the time is up :D





But back on topic:
Great device, the more "less-lethal" weapons the better.
I'd rather have 100 people 'abused' with a "less-lethal" weapon than one person killed.

[trans am]

just don't run! :rofl:


Just wear sunglasses!

[freeloader]

Drug use is no okay. Pot is a gateway drug for most users. Then they take the next drug then the next drug, etc... etc... At some point these people become a liability. They are going to do what ever it takes to get their drugs.

Or the simple reason, it's against the law.


Wow, you've fallen hook line and sinker for the DEA's war on drugs. Pot is in no way a gateway drug. I have atleast 50 friends who smoke pot and that's it. Nothing more illicit than that and more than half of them have been smoking it for more than 25 years. By the way, they all have jobs and two of them are police officers. Of course, I'm in Canada and our drug laws are not the same as the U.S. Thank God (or whatever higher being you believe in) for that.

[Cobalt]

Unfortunatly you can't enforce a law that states: "You may use a harmful substance but only within the limits that it doesn't cause harm". Any methods of enforcing that would be even more draconican than just banning it outright. 25% of pot users suffer mental illness because of it. I'm guessing the ones that don't suffer aren't the heavy users, but I would like to see how that percentage changes when looking solely at the heavy users. Now in addition to that it is more carcinogenic than smoking nicotine. So all round it is a more harmful drug than nicotine.

Considering that in many countries (notably the UK) restrictions on smoking have increased recently, why should an even more harmful drug be legalised? As you say these legal drugs cause far more deaths per year than illegal drugs, unfortunatly thats where your argument fails. They cause less deaths because they are illegal not because they are less harmful. So the argument is really one that supports banning all harmful narcotics rather than legalising more.

Legalising a drug probably wouldn't make enough money through taxation to fund the increased healthcare spending, not to mention the physical limits on how many people can be treated. You can't just throw money at a situation to solve it. This is especially true in the USA where you don't have free healthcare; many of those who would need treatment couldn't afford it and who is going to want to give the money to drug addicts?

They are also harmful to far more people than the ones who take them. What about their families? What about their victims if they do turn to crime? What about the health service?

The difference between illegal and legal drugs is that legal drugs need to be taken in much larger quantities before they become harmful. You could drink a beer or two every day for your entire life and not feel any ill effects. You could even go on the occasional binge and it wouldn't be that bad. Smoke pot everyday and get completely wasted at least once a month? You'll be addicted in no time.

[Major_A]

Wow, you've fallen hook line and sinker for the DEA's war on drugs. Pot is in no way a gateway drug. I have atleast 50 friends who smoke pot and that's it. Nothing more illicit than that and more than half of them have been smoking it for more than 25 years. By the way, they all have jobs and two of them are police officers. Of course, I'm in Canada and our drug laws are not the same as the U.S. Thank God (or whatever higher being you believe in) for that.

Congrats to you and your friends. Most people who try pot are teenagers who can't buy alcohol (in my estimation). They like the feeling of being high and try something else. Before you know it they are hooked on crystal meth (the fastest growing drug problem in the US). I don't want to hear that pot isn't a gateway drug that's plain dumb. Like I said most people who try pot are going to try something else. Pot is the easiest illegal drug to get and therefore it is a gateway drug.

[freeloader]

Unfortunatly you can't enforce a law that states: "You may use a harmful substance but only within the limits that it doesn't cause harm". Any methods of enforcing that would be even more draconican than just banning it outright. 25% of pot users suffer mental illness because of it. I'm guessing the ones that don't suffer aren't the heavy users, but I would like to see how that percentage changes when looking solely at the heavy users. Now in addition to that it is more carcinogenic than smoking nicotine. So all round it is a more harmful drug than nicotine.

Considering that in many countries (notably the UK) restrictions on smoking have increased recently, why should an even more harmful drug be legalised? As you say these legal drugs cause far more deaths per year than illegal drugs, unfortunatly thats where your argument fails. They cause less deaths because they are illegal not because they are less harmful. So the argument is really one that supports banning all harmful narcotics rather than legalising more.

Legalising a drug probably wouldn't make enough money through taxation to fund the increased healthcare spending, not to mention the physical limits on how many people can be treated. You can't just throw money at a situation to solve it. This is especially true in the USA where you don't have free healthcare; many of those who would need treatment couldn't afford it and who is going to want to give the money to drug addicts?

They are also harmful to far more people than the ones who take them. What about their families? What about their victims if they do turn to crime? What about the health service?

The difference between illegal and legal drugs is that legal drugs need to be taken in much larger quantities before they become harmful. You could drink a beer or two every day for your entire life and not feel any ill effects. You could even go on the occasional binge and it wouldn't be that bad. Smoke pot everyday and get completely wasted at least once a month? You'll be addicted in no time.


Where to start? Abusing anything will hurt your body. Whether it be food, drugs or booze. One word, MODERATION. Pot smokers don't smoke pot like cigarettes. Some people can go through two to three packs a day, and it's perfectly legal to do so, but have one joint a day and you're going to wreck your brain or your body, or face jail? A little extreme don't you think so?

By the way, leagal drugs kill more people per year than pot smoking. Just look up overdose statistics, whether it be accidental or by suicide.

[KoHaN69]

Pot is the easiest illegal drug to get and therefore it is a gateway drug.

Stone-hard logic there.

But anyway, enough arguing about uselessness of the DEA and how most illegal drugs are less harmful than alcohol, let's back on to nausea by LIGHTS!!

Wouldnt it be awesome to have these in a security system?

[wildcard]

ok, let us assume I get really wasted and get pass out on a sidewalk, who exactly am I hurting?
or an even easier one, I'm at my house alone and I smoke pot, who exactly am I hurting if it was legally prescribed in California but the DEA can and has put people in jail for using that prescription.

You're hurting yourself, you're the victim.

Laws are also passed not to protect others from us, but also to protect ourselves from ourselves.

[Spawne32]

Oh boy, i feel so many things wrong about the statements being made in this thread but i dont know how to formulate how i feel into words :rofl:

[Blauhung]

Anything to get the scum off the streets is good enough for myself...

just to lighten this thread up.....

but wouldn't this light just result in there being more scum on the streets?
:rofl:

[Major_A]

Imagine if they made their spot light with technology. "Put your hands on the steering wheel. Failure will to comply will result in a lap full of vomit."

They could also use this on suspected DUI stops. If they think they are drinking or feel like letting them off make them puke before they get back in the car.

[Vapor]

I bet this will increase end-of-month DUIs too :D

Officer: sir, have you been drinking tonight?

Driver: Oh no, officer. I'm just on my way back home from work.

Officer: Are you sure? You were driving a little erratically back there--you were taking up three lanes actually.

Driver: I must have just been not paying much attention to lines on the road, I won't do it again.

Officer: step out of the car please.

*driver gets out*

Officer: we're going to do a small sobriety test, first I need you to touch your finger to your nose.

*driver touches nose with little trouble*

Officer: alright, now I need you to walk on this white line.

*driver walks the line, does a spin at the end and does it again--backwards--with no trouble*

Officer: alright, one last test...sir, please look into my flashlight and track the light with your eyes.

Driver: :sick::sick::sick::sick:

Officer: sir, are you sure you haven't had anything to drink? You just threw up all over my shoes! I'm going to have to bring you in tonight...*mirandizes driver*

This is really one of those things you don't want falling into the wrong hands though.....it'll make the hand-in-warm-water sleeping+peeing trick seem like childsplay.

[Damien]

pot is only a gateway drug to idiots. i uhhhh don't do drugs. pot is not a drug.

[Duh]

pot is only a gateway drug to idiots. i uhhhh don't do drugs. pot is not a drug.

:rolleyes:

[nn_step]

You're hurting yourself, you're the victim.

Laws are also passed not to protect others from us, but also to protect ourselves from ourselves.

http://nnstep.com/PhilosophyOfLiberty-IHS.swf
I believe no one has a higher claim on my life, than I do.

[wildcard]

http://nnstep.com/PhilosophyOfLiberty-IHS.swf
I believe no one has a higher claim on my life, than I do.

It's not about owning your or claiming your life. It's about making the world a better place. And that includes you not harming yourself, even if we need laws to accomplish it.

It's not always about liberty. 100% liberty would be a dismal failure, it's the happy medium that's ideal.

Edit: and your "belief" is one of the liberties you are entitled to. Breaking laws is not a liberty you are entitled to. That's the attempt to create the happy medium/balance.

[nn_step]

It's not about owning your or claiming your life. It's about making the world a better place. And that includes you not harming yourself, even if we need laws to accomplish it.

It's not always about liberty. 100% liberty would be a dismal failure, it's the happy medium that's ideal.

Edit: and your "belief" is one of the liberties you are entitled to. Breaking laws is not a liberty you are entitled to. That's the attempt to create the happy medium/balance.

Well Nazi Germany thought they were making the world a better place but I do not believe that such actions that remove people's rights are a good thing.

[MrChubz]

It's not about owning your or claiming your life. It's about making the world a better place. And that includes you not harming yourself, even if we need laws to accomplish it.

It's not always about liberty. 100% liberty would be a dismal failure, it's the happy medium that's ideal.

Edit: and your "belief" is one of the liberties you are entitled to. Breaking laws is not a liberty you are entitled to. That's the attempt to create the happy medium/balance.
So how exactly does sending you to jail for smoking pot make the world a better place? Please elaborate on that one. Maybe it makes the air cleaner :shrug:

100% liberty would be anarchy which doesn't even sound good on paper. But, the government shouldn't tell you what's best for you. If you want to go bankrupt by gambling with a credit card instead of driving to Atlanta or Vegas then going bankrupt by gambling with cash traded for chips, why shouldn't you be able to? Or if you want to drink a beer at the age 18 instead of enlisting, why shouldn't you be able to?

No one is saying to run around and break laws left and right. Just that some laws shouldn't be there.

[wildcard]

So how exactly does sending you to jail for smoking pot make the world a better place? Please elaborate on that one. Maybe it makes the air cleaner :shrug:

100% liberty would be anarchy which doesn't even sound good on paper. But, the government shouldn't tell you what's best for you. If you want to go bankrupt by gambling with a credit card instead of driving to Atlanta or Vegas then going bankrupt by gambling with cash traded for chips, why shouldn't you be able to? Or if you want to drink a beer at the age 18 instead of enlisting, why shouldn't you be able to?

No one is saying to run around and break laws left and right. Just that some laws should be there.

Agreed, and that's all I am saying, some laws are needed, and I agree that some are not.

There is a long way between enforcing our drug laws and Nazi Germany.

[Major_A]

If you want to go bankrupt by gambling with a credit card

Sorry to rain on your parade but CC companies know a certain percent of their CC holders will not pay back their accumulated debt. This is why interest rates are going up and up. So that does affect more people than just yourself.

[MrChubz]

Sorry to rain on your parade but CC companies know a certain percent of their CC holders will not pay back their accumulated debt. This is why interest rates are going up and up. So that does affect more people than just yourself.
I don't even have a credit card. I was just naming a few laws I could think of off the top of my head.

[Kingcarcas]

Isn't suicide illegal in some places? :rofl:

anything that helps the cops do thier jobs, and get home safe to thier kids and family, and lowers the potential need to shoot suspects resisting arrest, is good I say.
QFT, i love watching people get tasered:shakes: ...........:ROTF:

there is a reason for that, because there are extremely few people that commit such crimes. (less than 1/6 in prison)
We have very little real crime because most people are good people.
For example if you walk on the left side of the sidewalk in New York City, you can be arrested and sentenced to 2 years in jail?

The problem isn't we need better tools to fight criminals or more money for jails; we need to stop treating people who don't commit crimes as criminals.
QFT, build schools not prisons!! Yet some guy gets life in jail when his 3rd strike is a marijuana charge :down:


P.S. Anyone watch "Hooked" on the History Channel?? It's funny why these drugs are illegal to begin with, but everyone in America being a pill popper is ok.

[KoHaN69]

damn...
When was the last time a flashlight enlightened such as diabolical enferno of intellectual thought?

[Revv23]

The problem with that is that some drugs cause violent crimes. What do people do when the get their first hit of crack, come down, and don't have money to buy more? they rob banks, convenience stores, and generally do bad stuff. It's like the drinking age: if people weren't being stupid and driving drunk, it wouldn't be there.

oh please there are thousands of reasons people rob things; i've heard of one guy holding up a drug store so he could buy a PS2. Are we going to outlaw PS2's? Personal liberty should take precendence over protectionism. in areas where crackheads become a problem; smoking crack is just another part of being better then the police. thug life. It's actually seen a a glamorous thing for a kid in the ghetto to drop out and sell crack. what if crack was sold on a free market? These kids wouldn't be dealing crack; we would save billions on border patrol for drugs, and we wouldn't be pumping millions into drug based economies anymore.

As for the drinking age; how come in other countries the drinking age is lower and they have much less of a problem with drunk drivers?

Why not teach our children to be responsible? I grew up with my parents being very open with me and drinking; i started drinking with them at about 18. I got to college and there are several people i know who were never allowed to drink; thier parents think they ar doing right by abiding the law; then these kids are the ones you see get arrested on thier first night of school. They have no idea what being responsible means. I see my firends from highschool that were never allowed to drink hanging on toliets at parties; even worse these people don't even know that THAT is wrong. I think it is much worse to make a person wait until they are 21 then it is to teach them how to handle alchohol responsibly in a controlled enviroment. Was your first drink on your 21st? If so; did you get smashed your first time?


It's not about owning your or claiming your life. It's about making the world a better place. And that includes you not harming yourself, even if we need laws to accomplish it.

It's not always about liberty. 100% liberty would be a dismal failure, it's the happy medium that's ideal.



Ah yes for the betterment of society; several great thinkers agree with you. Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini. Maybe you aren't as american as you think? America was founded on the idea that personal liberty came above the rights of anything else. Personal liberty is what is meant by "inalienable rights" which are talked about in the declaration of independence. Jefferson even mentions it in that same sentence; Life, liberty, and the prursuit of happiness.



Edit: and your "belief" is one of the liberties you are entitled to. Breaking laws is not a liberty you are entitled to. That's the attempt to create the happy medium/balance

It wouldn't be breaking the law if the law was was never written.

[Major_A]

As for the drinking age; how come in other countries the drinking age is lower and they have much less of a problem with drunk drivers? .

One word MADD. They got big enough with deep enough pockets to form their own PAC (Political Action Committee). Then they got a hold of some politicians and they introduced the law. Then 18 became 21 because of essentially one woman's loss.

[Stuperman]

I have skipped most of the 2nd and 3rd pages here as they are very off topic,
but drug prohibition is wasteful, stupid, and hypocritical.

ON TOPIC:

wouldn't sun glasses render this device useless? regular perscriptions ones might too as the glare would interfear with the 'ranging' mechanism. What about daylight?

This flashlight reminds me of something I heard about the american space program:
America found that pens didn't work in zero-g, so they spent more than a million dollars to design and build one pressurized with nitrogen that would write at any angle. The russians brought pencils.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

I have skipped most of the 2nd and 3rd pages here as they are very off topic,
but drug prohibition is wasteful, stupid, and hypocritical.

ON TOPIC:

wouldn't sun glasses render this device useless? regular perscriptions ones might too as the glare would interfear with the 'ranging' mechanism. What about daylight?

This flashlight reminds me of something I heard about the american space program:
America found that pens didn't work in zero-g, so they spent more than a million dollars to design and build one pressurized with nitrogen that would write at any angle. The russians brought pencils.

I also wondered about sunglasses. Especially the mirrored ones that would redirect the flashlight beam back at the light holder ;)

[Revv23]

One word MADD. They got big enough with deep enough pockets to form their own PAC (Political Action Committee). Then they got a hold of some politicians and they introduced the law. Then 18 became 21 because of essentially one woman's loss.

It's funny because; for every responsible 18 year old i can find an irresponsible 25 year old to match...

i think 19 is an age that makes more sense as then you don't have kids going to the bar at lunch in high school lol.

[The_Beast]

I think it's a good idea