View Full Version : Swiftech GPU Ram Heatsinks - Final Consensus?
cletus_cassidy
07-19-2007, 11:27 AM
I hate to raise this beaten horse of an issue one more time, but I am thinking of buying the new Swiftech MC8800 kit (containing MC14s and MC21s) which has the Thermattach thermal tape (i.e. the new tape) to pair with my MCW60. I know a lot of people mentioned in previous threads that they had or planned to order these heatsinks with the new tape, but I haven't heard whether they actually stick to the RAM or not. Can anyone let me know if they stick and, if so, how well? I'm hoping to avoid using the super glue method which, while it works quite well, is a bit dangerous if you dribble just a bit too much glue on the RAM chips. At the same time, I don't want the heatsinks falling off everytime I bump them when I moving things around inside my rig.
Thanks in advance.
You will still need super glue on the MC21s. Even with the ThermalTach tape, they will not stick well without super glue. Even Gabe, CEO of Swiftech, put out an apology notice on the Swiftech forums, saying that you must use super glue. I don't have the new heatsinks but I've heard from many that the MC14s do stick well to the ram chips as long as they are cleaned first.
cletus_cassidy
07-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Thanks IanY. I was planning on using Artic cleaner on the RAM chips, but I guess I'll still need a dab of super blue. Maybe just a single dab in the corner will be sufficient.
Apollo4g
07-19-2007, 11:36 AM
I have the new MC14s with the new tape, and they seem to be doing okay for now. Ive had them on for about 2 weeks now. Just make sure you press hard for about 1 min and clean the ram for them to stick on nice and good.
The rams on the 8800's have this oily residue left over from there white thermal pads, so thats why alot of the time the after market sinks fall of, because people dont clean them properly. That and the rams are a bit course which lessens the stick.
Clean them properly and you should be fine. alcohol, cotton swabs and tissue is what i used.
Good luck :D
No super glue on the ram.. the MC14s stick. Its the mosfets and the MC21s that I am talking about.
sbinh
07-19-2007, 11:43 AM
I used MC14s on motherboards (P5WDH & P5B-Dlx) mosfets 3 out of 16 pieces did not work. Those three fell off after couple hours.
Swiftech sent me few pieces of thermaltape to replace .. but again ... ain't work well..... Look like I need to use super-glue like IanY said .. :D
The GPU RAM sinks from Zalman work pretty good though.
MotF Bane
07-19-2007, 11:48 AM
MC14's new tape works great. I put it on my memory chips, walked away for about 10 minutes (to research why the **** my MCW60 wasn't fitting), came back, realized Gigabyte had screwed me over, and then found that it took considerably effort to remove the ramsinks. They didn't want to slide at all, nor would they pull straight up and off. Just once you use those once, the tape is done for.
Ya.. confirm.. stick once.. don't move it ... don't "adjust" after it sticks :)
Baleful
07-19-2007, 12:00 PM
You guys had better luck than me then. I just put mine together 4 days ago, and not even the MC14's would stick. I didn't want to do it, but I ended up putting a very very small dab of superglue on them. I don't know what the problem was, maybe to much humidity in the air? I dunno.
You didn't pray to your video card first... or offer a $100 bill sacrificial burning lol
Baleful
07-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Damnit! Knew I forgot something.... don't have any $100 bills for sacrificing... will a goat work? lol
Ad1tya
07-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Even the MC21's will stick easy, just heat them close to a Bulb... I used a 100W bulb, for like 15 seconds, and it stuck easy :/.
MikalCarbine
07-19-2007, 12:32 PM
I never use thermal tape, Arctic Alumina Epoxy FTW
cletus_cassidy
07-19-2007, 12:33 PM
Nice, thanks for all of the responses guys. I will try to add both types of heatsinks tonight (using all of your suggestions, and minimum super glue on the MC21's of course) and let you know how it goes. If nothing else, resurrecting this thread should give everyone lurking a final answer.
Baleful
07-19-2007, 12:34 PM
Even the MC21's will stick easy, just heat them close to a Bulb... I used a 100W bulb, for like 15 seconds, and it stuck easy :/.
Tryed that as well, didn't help 1 bit. I'm guessing there was to much humidity in the air at the time.... just a guess though.
Dateranoth
07-19-2007, 01:00 PM
After the pain I had with the ramsinks I wouldn't suggest them. I had the old ones with the bad tape and replaced it with t411 ( which the site says is what is on those ramsinks now ) and they still wouldn't stick to my liking.. Didn't really fall off but VERY easy to knock them off. I'm using the UNI-sink now, and though it ALSO was a pain to get it to seat right, it does work just as well as the individual ramsinks did. Cheaper too. Just my 2 cents.
Dateranoth
I never use thermal tape, Arctic Alumina Epoxy FTW
How easy is it to remove after it's bonded with the epoxy?
Baleful
07-19-2007, 01:34 PM
If you use straight epoxy it's impossible to remove (i think unless you freeze whatever it's attached to the epoxy will break similar to glass). If you mix it with AS5 it can be removed pretty easily. 80% epoxy, 20%AS% usually works.
ranker
07-19-2007, 03:03 PM
Baleful;2318307']If you use straight epoxy it's impossible to remove (i think unless you freeze whatever it's attached to the epoxy will break similar to glass). If you mix it with AS5 it can be removed pretty easily. 80% epoxy, 20%AS% usually works.
I wouldn't even use 80% epoxy. Even at the 50/50 mix, it will require a very firm twist with a set of pliers to remove the sinks. Looking back, I'd rather have done a 20% epoxy/80% ceramique mix instead. Also, consideration should be given towards using ceramique in the middle and 4 small droplets of super glue on the corners.
With a 50/50 mix, if you're unlucky with your "twist" expect to spend about 15 minutes per ram chip filing off the remnants.
rdmty
07-19-2007, 03:25 PM
I had trouble sticking the stealth's sinks onto the MOSFETs, Swiftech advised me to clean them off with brake cleaner O_o. Haven't tried it yet, just throwing it out there :o
We have published the following update to our technical bulletin date 6/17 with reference to the above subject matter.
http://www.swiftech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=118
****************UPDATE 7-17-07******************
After multiple tests in our lab, it has been determined that problems encountered in the field with adhesion of the MC21 heatsinks are caused by unsufficient/inadequate cleaning. We have also updated our installation guides accordingly.
The following procedure is now recommended for proper installation of these heatsinks:
Surface Cleaning
Substrate surfaces should be clean and dry prior to the thermal pad application to ensure best thermal performance and adhesion.
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) applied with a lint-free wipe or swab should be adequate for removing surface contamination such as dust or fingerprints. Do not use “denatured alcohol” or glass cleaners, which often contain oily components. Allow the surface to dry for several minutes before applying the thermal pad.
More aggressive solvents (such as acetone, methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) or toluene) are required to remove heavier contamination from previous thermal grease but should be followed by a final isopropanol wipe as described above.
CedricFP
07-19-2007, 04:52 PM
I have a set of old MC14's before the thermal tape was changed. The only thing it stuck on was my i/o chip unfortunately... I just run the card naked.
Baleful
07-19-2007, 05:04 PM
Sorry Gabe, but I did clean the ram w/ 91% alcohol and my video card was still raining ramsinks. I cleaned them repeatedly so I know for a fact there was absolutely NOTHING on the ram when I applied the ramsinks. The ramsinks adhesive simply sucks. Sorry to put it in such a blatant form, but it's the truth.
Jimmer411
07-19-2007, 05:29 PM
You will still need super glue on the MC21s. Even with the ThermalTach tape, they will not stick well without super glue. Even Gabe, CEO of Swiftech, put out an apology notice on the Swiftech forums, saying that you must use super glue. I don't have the new heatsinks but I've heard from many that the MC14s do stick well to the ram chips as long as they are cleaned first.
2nded!
Cleaning the chips with rubbing alcohol and applying pressure for 30 seconds~ worked like a charm for me.
Baleful;2318616']Sorry Gabe, but I did clean the ram w/ 91% alcohol and my video card was still raining ramsinks. I cleaned them repeatedly so I know for a fact there was absolutely NOTHING on the ram when I applied the ramsinks. The ramsinks adhesive simply sucks. Sorry to put it in such a blatant form, but it's the truth.
not a problem. what sucks for some works for others... so it means that there must be an explanation somewhere, right? So, outside of a defect in the tape, the only rational explanation is the cleaning method.
Also notice that we now recommend a two stage cleanup: MEK first, to dissolve the grease/oil residues from the previous heatsink, and then isopropyl alcohol.
I can't blame you for being disapointed and pronouncing a judgement, in fact, I made the same mistake myself, reason why I put a halt on a shipment of 10,000 of these heatsinks. Then we explored further and further, and found out that cleaning properly does deliver a good bond.
I don't expect you to agree at this time, but will be happy to send you replacements if wish.
Baleful
07-19-2007, 05:51 PM
That's very respectable of you Gabe, and I really appreciate that. It's not needed though, I took your earlier advice of putting a small dab of super glue on there, works like a charm. For the NIVO (or however you spell it) chip, i used the mixture of epoxy/AS5 and it seemed to work pretty good. If you just feel completely compelled to send me something, you could send me some nice metal replacement barbs for the MCW60 as the plastic barbs that came w/ mine decided to become a fountain last night lol. But seriously, I really think it was the humidity down here that was screwing it up, avg humidity here is like 97-100%, it's freakin unbearable sometimes.
Ad1tya
07-19-2007, 09:28 PM
^^ I cant understand how Humidity would screw up your Tapes stickyness..
Humidity in Mumbai right now is about 100% as well. Everyday!
Although, I worked in my Bedroom, which is almost always kept dry due to an AC. I never open it to the elements for too long :P:...
cletus_cassidy
07-20-2007, 06:11 AM
Baleful: I added my heatsinks last night and had the same problems. I cleaned all of the ram chips and MOSFETS with Artic's cleaning solution and then Isolpropyl alcohol and still lost 8 heatsinks overnight. I ended up using a tiny dab of superglue (with a paperclip), but I'm now worried about getting the MC21s off the MOSFETS in the future.
Baleful;2318701']That's very respectable of you Gabe, and I really appreciate that. It's not needed though, I took your earlier advice of putting a small dab of super glue on there, works like a charm. For the NIVO (or however you spell it) chip, i used the mixture of epoxy/AS5 and it seemed to work pretty good. If you just feel completely compelled to send me something, you could send me some nice metal replacement barbs for the MCW60 as the plastic barbs that came w/ mine decided to become a fountain last night lol. But seriously, I really think it was the humidity down here that was screwing it up, avg humidity here is like 97-100%, it's freakin unbearable sometimes.
o-rings are not subject to temperature or humidity changes. They provide the best seal known to man. your fittings simply need to be tightened properly. Changing to metal will not help anything if you don't tighten these fittings.
Pull out your tubes first, then give another 1/2 to 3/4 turn to your fittings, using a flat wrench (5/8 I believe) and they will stay there forever without leaks.
Baleful
07-20-2007, 07:04 AM
Thanks Gabe, I don't think the plastic barbs came with any O-rings though. I'll check tonight when I get home, but i'm almost certain mine didn't come w/ any.
Baleful;2319624']Thanks Gabe, I don't think the plastic barbs came with any O-rings though. I'll check tonight when I get home, but i'm almost certain mine didn't come w/ any.
these fittings CANNOT seal without o-rings.
sick_g4m3r
07-20-2007, 01:12 PM
Go with TT's BGA or w/e solution. They are 8 bucks for 8, and although they wont cool as efficiently, it doesnt matter at all for GPU ram and the like
Baleful
07-20-2007, 01:32 PM
Then that explains my problem, thanks Gabe. Were the barbs supposed to come with o-rings?
7499richard
07-20-2007, 01:41 PM
yes they come with o-rings...without them you have no chnace of sealing from leaks
Baleful;2320305']Then that explains my problem, thanks Gabe. Were the barbs supposed to come with o-rings?
absolutely :-) I would be apalled if they didn't. But even then it's an easy fix. email michelle@swiftech.com, and she'll mail you spares.
Sparky
07-20-2007, 07:36 PM
Baleful;2320305']Then that explains my problem, thanks Gabe. Were the barbs supposed to come with o-rings?
That might be why you had leaks :p:
I used D-tek metal barbs on my MCW60 myself, worked well. I don't like the look of plastic barbs, personal preference really.
Not sure what tape the enzotech BMR-C1 ramsinks use, but they stuck first try on my card (one even restuck fine after I smacked it by accident and knocked it off the card). Is it the same tape that is on the MC14's now? At the time I did my build the enzotechs were cheaper and better-sticking ;) but now it looks with the changed tape and the apparent price-drop the MC14's are worth me considering again if I need some more sinks.
JayDeehobbit
07-23-2007, 06:18 AM
I ran across this thread a couple days ago (took awhile to get account verrification). I was also having problems with the not-so-sticky Ramsinks and mosfet sinks and I wound up using the superglue fix as is mentioned here. I don't like it but...
It's ridiculous that the Swiftech package cost's $40 for some shiny machined copper and they can't offer a soloution that provides proper adhesion.
I haven't finised my build yet so I just hope the superglue works and that I didn't ruin my 8800GTS for the sake of a pennys worth of copper :(
Maviryk
07-23-2007, 06:38 AM
I disagree and say that the thermaltape that Swiftech provide stick just fine, and that in most cases the ram chips are cleaned adequately.
The problem lies in that the ramsinks themselves are concave and if you have a glass desk, stick a sink on the underside of the glass and you'll easily see the concavity.
I've bought 4+ sets of Swiftech ramsinks in the last year and all of them seem to exhibit this problem.
Nothing a little lapping can't solve. But then you can't use the thermal tape, not that you could in the first place anyways.
JayDeehobbit
07-23-2007, 06:49 AM
I disagree and say that the thermaltape that Swiftech provide stick just fine, and that in most cases the ram chips are cleaned adequately.
The problem lies in that the ramsinks themselves are concave and if you have a glass desk, stick a sink on the underside of the glass and you'll easily see the concavity.
I've bought 4+ sets of Swiftech ramsinks in the last year and all of them seem to exhibit this problem.
Nothing a little lapping can't solve. But then you can't use the thermal tape, not that you could in the first place anyways.
Perhaps my english skills are somewhat lacking but you seem to contradict yourself there methinks.
Sparky
07-23-2007, 07:30 AM
Perhaps my english skills are somewhat lacking but you seem to contradict yourself there methinks.
I believe he is saying the problem isn't the thermal tape, or residue on the chips, but the problem is the bottom of the ramsinks aren't flat, which causes most of the tape to not stick (also bad heat transfer). Lapping the sinks makes them flat, but then you need to replace the thermal tape.
Maviryk
07-23-2007, 07:38 AM
I believe he is saying the problem isn't the thermal tape, or residue on the chips, but the problem is the bottom of the ramsinks aren't flat, which causes most of the tape to not stick (also bad heat transfer). Lapping the sinks makes them flat, but then you need to replace the thermal tape.
:up:
Sorry, I forget that these forums multi-national. But that was exactly what meant to say.