Article: Purchasing laptops, what not to do.

[STEvil]

A misadventure in buying a laptop...

I wrote up a small article on this some time ago but never put it out to the general public.. recently i've done some thinking on my purchase and what happened... maybe it'll help other buyers be more cautious at least.

I wanted one that could play most games respectably, came with a reputable warrant/repair history, and didnt break the bank. Simple request, no?

What'd I choose?

The Alienware M5750 (Uniwill P72 chassis)... quite similar to the P71 chassis.

Oops.

My laptop came in the most basic of configurations.. 17" 1440x900 widescreen, T5500 CPU, 1x512 667mhz 5-5-5-x ram, 60gb HDD, and an ATi X1800 Mobility... all for about $1700. I picked up a T7400 CPU and 2x1GB of 553mhz 4-4-4-x ram a bit later and put them in because it was far cheaper to buy them from other places than Alienware...

There's a clause in the warranty about one of those items.. oops.

For the first while everything was great. Games played acceptably although temperatures seemed rather high resulting in a few blackscreen moments. Using the application RMClock I reduced voltage to the CPU lowering temperatures a few degrees and it helped a bit, unless the location I was in was hot.. I guess that during the ordering procedure when I noticed the laptop go through the testing labs twice over the several weeks that I waited for it to ship that I should have been worried.

I phoned up Alienware on the issue and talked with a rep. Their tech support was ok but the tech didnt seem to understand the issue. I remounted the heatsink setup with the problems were less. Not gone, but less.

I put up with the issue for a while.. artifacting in games, the occasional blackscreen shutdown, then phoned again when the issues started getting a bit more serious. I mentioned reseating the heatsink and making sure contact was well, ran the gamut on dirty heatsinks blocked by dust, hair, etc... and then also mentioned i'd changed the CPU.. oops.

Apparently changing the CPU voids your warranty :(

Anyways, several weeks later and without warranty the problem began to affect 2D use so I went to work and installed a vf700-cu.... to no effect, the damage had been done and my X1800 mobility is now pretty much useless. Well, its stable in 2D again actually..


So, lets analyze the laptop for fun..

Pros:
Decent performance for price
Chassis is sturdy enough for general use and light/small enough that most cant complain unless they're just whiners.

Mid:
Case
Bling overdone a bit..

Cons:
Cant turn off bingy lights resulting in wasted battery power
Poor keyboard design
Poor heatsink design
Poor speakers/subwoofer, poor audio quality
Poor LCD (gets burn-in, HORRIBLE backlight bleed)
Poor lifecycle (will not last very long)
Poor BIOS


Now to break each of those down....

Pros -
When it works, its fast enough.. and you wont break it that easily. That was short.

Mid -
Case is supposed to mimic a high tech alien spaceship/stainless steel/aluminum whatever.. yeah, sure. Bling is a shrug, some like it and some dont. I prefer function over form, but if you make something so ugly you dont want to use it, it defeats the function.

Cons -
Oh boy, that list is a doozy :(

The blingy lights dont turn off and this wastes battery power. Thats pretty self explanetory.

They keyboard isnt very durable. I have had a few keys get stuck and was only able to repair them by wiggling them side to side for about 20 minutes each. They work again, but thats not something I should have to do. Some of them seem to be losing sensitivity as well (I blame all typo's in this on that) and the pain/sticker/applique or whatever is used on each key to show its corresponding letter or nuber is wearing off on quite a few. The plastic under them is even wearing away so you can see through they keyboard and i'll not even get into key placement or SIZE of some of them... overall really shows lack of quality control.

The heatsink just cant handle the load of the CPU and GPU at the same time, let alone the CPU when its pushed to full potential. I used Intel Thermal Analysis Tool ("TAT") before doing the GPU mod and after and before would result in temperatures exceeding 110c (shutdown, 18-20c room ambient). After only resulted in temperatures approaching 80c (approx 25c room ambient) while during normal use temps were only 70-80c loaded before (15-25c ambient) and 58-62c loaded (23-28c ambient) respectively (premodded GPU, after GPU mod). The fact there is only a single heatpipe in stock configuration for each the CPU and the GPU doesnt help anything. Lack of quality control again..

Speakers? They work.. and a tiny "subwoofer" which they didnt even bother to attempt a ported or bandpass enclosure with. I cant rag on them hard I guess, but given the room left over a better job could have been done, but that requires effort. It also seems there is EMI (electromagnetic interference) being generated which is causing crackles in the audio. With my Sony MDR-CD380 or Plantronics Audio .90 headphones attached to the audio output I can hear them... if I use my Sony 1130 Solid State amp between then it gets cleaned up quite nicely (its not perfect still, but very acceptable). No i'm not a Sony fanboy ;)

The LCD gets burn in. Really. Its the first LCD i've ever seen it on. Rediculous, no? Ok, maybe i'm ragging on it.. but thats a quality control issue. Oh, and the backlight bleeds like it has been gouged in an artery.

There are P71/P72 complaints popping up all around.. M5500, 5700, 5750, 5790 are all pretty much the same chassis. There are a few Fujitsu models based on the Uniwill P71/P72 as well. A quick poke on google and notebookreview.com reveals a few for starters. Short lifecycle. My old Compaq Presario with an XP-2400 Mobile in it I gave to a friend for college is still working more reliably than this thing. Quality control...

And last but not least.. the BIOS is quite barren. Want to use 3rd party ram? Better hope it works perfect at stock settings, you cant change any timings/latencies/straps/etc in the bios... if you can even get to it. I had to swap my ram around in the slots to get the laptop to POST with the 2x1gb initially.



Conclusion

So, where does that leave us? I dont know about you, but i'm questioning the quality control of Alienware and have pretty much lost any inkling of respect. The tech support I have to score decent.. they were polite and tried to help, but could only do so much really. Of course it is almso my fault. I should have read on Alienware a bit more because there are some users out there that were similarly dissatisfied. A decent Clevo would have done me buch better... or anything.

My original rating which you guys didnt see was -5 out of 10.

This time around i'm going with -8/10

Rating system:

-10: Would not wish this uppon my worst enemy. Ok, maybe..
0: Average, consumer trash.
+10: Lusters even the most jaded users.







Anyone happen to have a "dead" P72 chassis based heatsink around? And an MXM Type 3 GPU.. preferrably something low heat....? :/

edit - forgot pic, here's with the VF700-Cu mounted.

[jspace]

I had some of those blackscreen issues with this Gateway. First, I thought it was a hardware issue, stock temps with the TL-52, throttled all the way down, were about 65C with the fan running full blast all the time. Since it was a refurb, there is no warranty and I had no problem cracking it open to have a look. There was no TIM on the CPU! It went like this:
Plate/Heatpipe
Some kind of TIM
Aluminum Foil
CPU
I have no idea what the aluminum foil is supposed to do, but I know copper>aluminum (ok, I don't know exactly what it was, but it wasn't copper). When I took it off I found most of the gray stuff they put on was gone, so I applied some AS5 and It brought temps down considerably. 10C is a pretty nice drop:p: and the fan shut off a lot. I have no idea what GPU/NB temps are though.:mad:. Battery life was pretty bad without undervolting (1hr 16min wireless on). Turns out the blackscreens were from some kind of driver issue. I reformatted/reinstalled everything last weekend and it has been crunching since. Voltage is now down from 1.1v/1.05v to .95v/.712v @ 1600/800mhz respectively.
STEvil, how do you use that thing with the HSF sticking out like that?

[STEvil]

4 screws, 1 2x4 cut into two 1.5"x1" peices.

screws are drilled into the rubber pads it used to sit on.. lmao ;)

[Rilla927]

@Stevil

Alienware was being investigated by the Attorney General in Miami but I don't know what happen with it.

I'm sorry to hear about your nightmare with them.

They messed over a lot of people. There are some people that odered computers and never even received them yet they were paying the bill.

I have had a two year nightmare with these people my self.

[b0bd0le]

correct me if i'm wrong

but you bought a laptop, modify it to help save money which renders it unusable...

and this is alienware's fault?

[evoic]

correct me if i'm wrong

but you bought a laptop, modify it to help save money which renders it unusable...

and this is alienware's fault?

Normally I would NEVER be caught agreeing with someone named Bob Dole.....but in this situation - I'm inclined to think what he posted is 100% my feeling on the matter.

[Leora]

I'd like to think there is definitely a market for gaming laptops especially amongst gaming enthusiasts, but obviously serious design issues should be taken into consideration by the companies/persons assembling them.

Having said this, if the end result in mind is a high-end gaming laptop with a good gpu, then the issue of heat should be taken into consideration and addressed... it is kind of pointless selling a gaming laptop and expecting it to perform well, if the heatsink can't even accomodate the load. :( Surely, that is what the testing phase of products is all about.. factoring all these considerations into the picture and researching all possibe issues that might arise before the product is launched? :confused:

STEvil, i agree with your idea of an good quality external gpu. Sorry to hear about your dilemma... sounds like the laptop had issues before you changed anything with it, and for that reason, i would be on these guys case even though the warranty is void :(

[Lestat]

he didnt modify it in any type of hardware way. (prior to the picture)

and you should have immediately talked ot a supervisor and explained listen the stupid laptop on its own lowers voltages and cpu mhz this is a piece of software that does the same thing only without dropping the cpu mhz.
there is NOTHING that can be hurt by this aside from the BSOD or so that could happen if you have the voltages set wrong.

but

you should have never told them you did that, nor should you have told them you did anything with the heatsink(s). even if its just reseating it. that was a ill thought thing to say to them.

but you have went to far now by doing what you did with the heatsink and ram sinks. that was just foolish.
you should have fought tooth and nail to get a replacement and not stopped until threats of legal action were thrown at them and they spat in your face.(even if threats of legal actions are bluff's that has a tendancy to motivate a company to do something, that and telling them your going to warn everyone to never buy another piece of hardware from them)

thats just me though, i can't stand a company who takes any little tiny thing they see and kicks you in the nuts and tries to duck out of their warranty.

but remember laptops are not gaming machines, they can not handle the heat created by the hardware. i dont care who makes it, they get too hot and the pissy crappy little heatsink and heatpipes they use now aren't enough to cool a fart.

[STEvil]

b0bd0le and evoic, if you were to read what I had written you would notice that I was having issues before modifying the laptop at all. In fact, why modify that which works fine?

As to warranty, i'm watching whats going on with other users of the P71/P72 chassis. Seems i'm not the only one in a pinch.


but remember laptops are not gaming machines, they can not handle the heat created by the hardware. i dont care who makes it, they get too hot and the pissy crappy little heatsink and heatpipes they use now aren't enough to cool a fart.

Tell that to the manu's, they seem to like saying their laptop is capable of gaming, let alone handling the thermal output generated.

[Leora]

Tell that to the manu's, they seem to like saying their laptop is capable of gaming, let alone handling the thermal output generated.

Exactly my point. STEvil i agree with you 100%. Why introduce and 'promise' a product that can't deliver at the end of the day? It makes no sense :( Have these guys heard of market research and after sales service? :rolleyes:

[STEvil]

Most of the time previous to now the laptop was running in a relatively cool environment.. 15-25c.

Now its reaching to 30, maybe mid 30's. I can hardly imagine what the guys using similar laptops are going through in climates where ambient temps are getting closer to mid-40's, let alone putting a load on the GPU..

[evoic]

b0bd0le and evoic, if you were to read what I had written you would notice that I was having issues before modifying the laptop at all. In fact, why modify that which works fine?


Hey....far be it from me to claim that your laptop wasn't problematic before you started fiddlin' with the goodies inside.
On the contrary.

I think if your laptop was bum, you should have made the phonecall and let them deal with the problem.
They're the one's that pawned off an overheating, issue-laden machine as a top performance gamer.

My issue is more aimed towards the chain of events.
Specifically where you decided to:
A. Open the machine and poke around.
B. Open the machine and poke around.....and then TELL them that you did so.

Am I sympathetic to a nice chunk of money going down the drain because the company you're dealing wants to stand on protocol instead of helping their customer? YES.

Am I nearly certain now that you've admitted activity that voids their warranty that they're going to try to weasel their way out of honoring the claim? YES.

However it goes....good luck.

[STEvil]

The only "activity" which voided their warranty was the CPU swap. That was my fault as I didnt realize it did void the warranty. After I learned that I was up the creek without a paddle, so what else to do?

Teach me for being thorough and trying to help the tech understand the cooling system was underperforming.

[reflux]

but remember laptops are not gaming machines, they can not handle the heat created by the hardware. i dont care who makes it, they get too hot and the pissy crappy little heatsink and heatpipes they use now aren't enough to cool a fart.

Depends what you get. I used a Dell XPS Gen 2 laptop as my main machine for just over a year. Regularly played FEAR, Company Of Heroes and the like, overclocked the nuts off the graphics card, and never experienced any artifacting or damage. And that had a 6800 Ultra, followed by a 7800GTX. Both are hotter running cards than a mobility X1800.

STEvil, I sympathise with you, having heard other tales of Alienware woe. Their products give gaming laptops a bad name.

[dippyskoodlez]

Most of the time previous to now the laptop was running in a relatively cool environment.. 15-25c.

Now its reaching to 30, maybe mid 30's. I can hardly imagine what the guys using similar laptops are going through in climates where ambient temps are getting closer to mid-40's, let alone putting a load on the GPU..

I thought my Macbook Pro heat issues were pretty bad, but after using a powerbook for gaming, I was relieved they were pretty tame.

but after hearing this.. :shocked:

I do have to say, my macbook pro has held up to around 8 months of WoW(!!), Wolfenstein, Command and Conquer, and MOHAA and it still feels brand new.


The only heat issues I've occured are when I let it sit on my lap.. :am:


I am curious, how do things such as Dells XPS laptops hold up keyboard and trackpad wise?

My keyboard is almost as if it were brand new still, aside from my W key. Which is oxidizing or something strange that I can't get rid of, but my trackpad still looks brand new.

My HP's laptop keys are all flat and smooth, and the enter key has even popped off from use :/

[reflux]

I am curious, how do things such as Dells XPS laptops hold up keyboard and trackpad wise?

My keyboard is almost as if it were brand new still, aside from my W key. Which is oxidizing or something strange that I can't get rid of, but my trackpad still looks brand new.

My HP's laptop keys are all flat and smooth, and the enter key has even popped off from use :/

Everyone tends to knock Dell, but the machine held up extremely well. I've sold it now, but the guy who bought it tells me all the keys and touchpad still work fine and none of the key lettering has rubbed off. The only way you'd be able to tell it wasn't new are a few scratches from daily use.

[MentholMoose]

I use IBM Thinkpads for my personal use. At work we use Dells.

With Dell, you have to pay extra for "North America based support", and it still sucks. They are slow and force you to follow their script. Standard IBM tech support, on the other hand, is excellent. They are extremely fast and located in the USA. Basically IBM has no-hassle support; you tell them what's wrong and they take care of you.

For example, on my current laptop (Thinkpad T42p) a key on the keyboard recently broke, so I called IBM. The call took less than 10 minutes. They sent a replacement keyboard via overnight shipping. It included new screws with fresh thread lock. They didn't require that I spend time shipping the old keyboard back (but some parts will have to be shipped back).

Another nice thing is that all IBM service manuals are available on their web site, so you aren't left guessing what to do when troubleshooting or repairing your laptop.

Of course, you can send your laptop to IBM for repairs. I did this with my previous laptop (Thinkpad A31p) when one of the PCMCIA slots stopped working. I called them on a Monday, I received the pre-paid laptop shipping container on Tuesday, I shipped it on Wednesday morning, and I received my repaired laptop on Thursday afternoon.

[evoic]

Wow.

I need to look into IBM's then.
They never even come onto my radar because of the price, but I guess the extra dough pays for itself in the end with less headaches.

[dippyskoodlez]

Wow.

I need to look into IBM's then.
They never even come onto my radar because of the price, but I guess the extra dough pays for itself in the end with less headaches.

Yep.

Especially for companys with a corporate support line.

Not to name *cough*sprint*cough* any names, but sometimes they don't suck. :rofl:

Apple is usually low hassle for me too. :up:

Hopefully more companys will start to take notice.. HP was a pain when I tried a few years ago. :down:

[STEvil]

Depends what you get. I used a Dell XPS Gen 2 laptop as my main machine for just over a year. Regularly played FEAR, Company Of Heroes and the like, overclocked the nuts off the graphics card, and never experienced any artifacting or damage. And that had a 6800 Ultra, followed by a 7800GTX. Both are hotter running cards than a mobility X1800.

STEvil, I sympathise with you, having heard other tales of Alienware woe. Their products give gaming laptops a bad name.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but 6800's, 7800's, and 7900's all run cooler than X1800/X1900 mobility.

This is going by the amount of dead X1800's and X1900's vs dead 6*/7*'s.. that I can find on forums and through PM's i've recieved anyways.

[Levish]

i ran my laptop in Sicily (Dell Latitude D620) on some simple, cpu bound games and the thing what hitting thermal protection and throttling bad :x

single threaded games of course so only one core was loaded and probably not fully loaded.

~90f ambients

the cooling for these things is really not sufficient if they actually get used for anything other than simple spreadsheets and internet browsing ... something along the lines of the heatpipe cases would probably be much better imo.

[reflux]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 6800's, 7800's, and 7900's all run cooler than X1800/X1900 mobility.

This is going by the amount of dead X1800's and X1900's vs dead 6*/7*'s.. that I can find on forums and through PM's i've recieved anyways.

Ah fair enough, I hadn't heard much about X1800s/X1900s as they're rather rare in notebooks, so I was presuming load temps of around 90c for my 7800GTX was pretty damn toasty.

[TTmodder]

Sucks to hear about your lappy, especially when i'm 'bout to buy a "gaming" laptop (a 8600 gt with 512 mb of ram). Luckely it's from a north europe company called zepto and their laptops are benched in rooms upto 40 celcius, and their laptops has only got good reviews. instead of alienware that seems to turn out crappy (too expensive to ship to little DK even tho they were my first thought of company producing a lappy for my main purpose. Gaming) Oh well we all learn from our mistakes. Never say you fiddled with your laptop to the tech support :rofl:

[STEvil]

Ah fair enough, I hadn't heard much about X1800s/X1900s as they're rather rare in notebooks, so I was presuming load temps of around 90c for my 7800GTX was pretty damn toasty.

110c is the point this thing shuts down. Heatpipes lose effectiveness over about 70c (depends slightly on vacuum or pressure inside). GPU could have been hitting much higher than 110c by that point as only a single heatpipe was installed for it and the probe used to determine shutdown temp isnt even connected to the heatsink (its just a diode on the motherboard somewhere).

Not to say nV mobile cards are not hot of course though..