DDC-2s listed on web sites new (worst) versions?

[Snyxxx]

Petra's at leasts mentions the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2 pumps.

All the other web sites (swiftech, PPC, DD) I shop show the DDC-2 (MCP-355) as having 20.2 feet of head which is the old good powerful one.

Do they really have it? Or is it the new ones that have the lower head and have not updated?

[Petra]

Petra's at leasts mentions the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2 pumps.

All the other web sites (swiftech, PPC, DD) I shop show the DDC-2 (MCP-355) as having 20.2 feet of head which is the old good powerful one.

Do they really have it? Or is it the new ones that have the lower head and have not updated?

All Swiftech has is the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2, DD only has (maybe) 5 of the DDC-2's left (after which, they'll only have the DDC-3.2), and anyone who has ordered from Swiftech or Laing USA in the past few weeks likely has the DDC-3's as well. Most resellers wouldn't even notice the switch until someone mentioned it (like I said months ago, silent change).

[elfy]

not really fair on the consumer :S atleast you've checked ;)

[newls1]

The knowledge Petra has in this field is mind blowing. He is always one to be honest with customers

[ColonelCain]

Wait, why would the newer version be a worse performer?

And yes, Alex is amazing.:D

[Petra]

Wait, why would the newer version be a worse performer?
They redesigned the pump's motor and it behaves markedly different, when compared to the DDC-2. See here for data from my testing and some commentary: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137484

[nealh]

They redesigned the pump's motor and it behaves markedly different, when compared to the DDC-2. See here for data from my testing and some commentary: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137484

so can we still get old the DDC2....

[Starscream]

so can we still get old the DDC2....

doubt it.

the way Petra said it some stores stil got a hand full of the old pumps in stock but once their gone u can only get the new 3.2.

[nealh]

doubt it.

the way Petra said it some stores stil got a hand full of the old pumps in stock but once their gone u can only get the new 3.2.

well thats what i need to find out..buy a back pump before there are none left

the newer version does not have nearly the performance

[Snyxxx]

Especially with my Storm, I need the head pressure.

[Starscream]

well thats what i need to find out..buy a back pump before there are none left

the newer version does not have nearly the performance

nice idea but laing replaced the old version with this new weaker version a few months ago. The stores that stil got the old one literally only got a few.

i stil got a 10 watt Laing. was thinking of getting the 18 watt but not much of a point init now.

[montyshaw]

Noooo! I want to run another DDC-2 w/petra's top in series with the one I have. Is there no way to get a DDC-2? Can I run a new DDC-3.2 w/petra top in series with my old DDC-2 + top?

]Monty[

[Petra]

Noooo! I want to run another DDC-2 w/petra's top in series with the one I have.

We should be able to get ahold of a small number of DDC-2's (no less than 8, no more than 13 or so)... but that'll probably be it.

[IanY]

With the 3.2, might as well just buy a D5.

[coolmiester]

With the 3.2, might as well just buy a D5.

Absolute rubbish..................explain why IanY

[Snyxxx]

Yes, D5 if you like the larger pump size, lower pressure head and large bore plastic nozzles that cannot be changed. Been there. Not again if I can help it. The flow difference in my loop was dramatic with the DDC-2. No contest. D5 lost.

[Petra]

Absolute rubbish..................explain why IanY

The flowrate difference between a D5 and a modified DDC-2 is already quite small (between 0.1 US Gal./min. and 0.3 US Gal./min. for most CPU + GPU + HW Labs/Swiftech/CoolingWorks radiator loops)... Now, factor in the substantially reduced performance of the DDC-3.2 and there will be very, very little performance difference between them--I've been saying this for months. The only thing which would cause a real difference would be heat dump...but that, too, would likely be very close (DDC-3.2 w/top @ 2GPM would be just shy of 20W consumed).

[IanY]

Absolute rubbish..................explain why IanY

Well.. the pressure difference between the blue impeller and the red impeller pumps is quite drastic. The D5 pump's head pressure isn't very much lower than the blue impeller's pump and indeed still has the higher flow, but everyone is saying that flow doesn't really matter, and I disagree.

D5s do die, but not at the same rate as the DDC2/DDC+. Perhaps the DDC 3.2 is more reliable? I don't have one, so I wouldn't know.

I do know that I would personally not buy a 3.2. I'm not saying that I would buy a D5 instead, but this whole blue impeller nonsense is making me annoyed.

[parth]

I just bought a pump labeled as DCC2 a few weeks ago (sorry Petra, you didn't have it in stock and I didn't know the difference between 3.2 and 2). How can I tell whether I have the DCC2?

[IanY]

Look at the impeller.. what color is it?

[nealh]

so Petra..CYPM..how can we get a DDC2 from you

[coolmiester]

The flowrate difference between a D5 and a modified DDC-2 is already quite small (between 0.1 US Gal./min. and 0.3 US Gal./min. for most CPU + GPU + HW Labs/Swiftech/CoolingWorks radiator loops)... Now, factor in the substantially reduced performance of the DDC-3.2 and there will be very, very little performance difference between them--I've been saying this for months. The only thing which would cause a real difference would be heat dump...but that, too, would likely be very close (DDC-3.2 w/top @ 2GPM would be just shy of 20W consumed).


So on or in most real world scenario it would make a diddly swat difference at all Alex (sorry didn't know which way you were going there)

As for returns for us we have probably 10 or so D5's (if that and that is including the Polarflo front end) where as i just couldn't estimate DDC's we have had back so on the reliability front i would say D5 all the way

but

Personally i think the DDC is much more realistic and aesthetically pleasing for most watercooling cases and will admit i swapped out all of the 18wattt for the 10watt quite some time ago in all my personal set-ups.................but that's just me:)

I think a lot of the hype/misconception as of late with all the DDC series does absolutely nothing for retailers in general and nor does it do anything but mislead a lot of forum members into thinking they will have a much better system if they hold out for a particular model number.

[parth]

Look at the impeller.. what color is it?

Red

[nealh]

Red

you got the DDC2(ie not 3.2)...more powerful version

[parth]

Great! Thanks for the reply.

[sick_g4m3r]

D5 ftw. jeez louise this flow stuff is so gay. .1g here, .3g there, .6gallons over there, that means absolutely nothing to real world performance

[ColonelCain]

They redesigned the pump's motor and it behaves markedly different, when compared to the DDC-2. See here for data from my testing and some commentary: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137484

But then there is still the question of why? Why would they make a worse one? I really don't see the logic in that.

[virtualrain]

Are the 3.2 pumps readily identified as such on the sticker on the pump? i.e. if I ask an etailer for a DDC-2 vs. a 3.2 they can tell for certain without taking the top off and looking at the impeller?

[sick_g4m3r]

But then there is still the question of why? Why would they make a worse one? I really don't see the logic in that.

not only that, but a LOT worse. wth

[ranker]

Are the 3.2 pumps readily identified as such on the sticker on the pump? i.e. if I has an etailer for a DDC-2 vs. a 3.2 they can tell for certain without taking the top off and looking at the impeller?

Nope. In my desperate search for one, I called Petra's and Hank up. Hank said there's no way to tell and spent a good half hour going through all of his pumps to find a red impeller by opening them up.

[sick_g4m3r]

NO!!!!!1 the ddc reign is over.............

[serialk11r]

Time for the RD30s and whatever blueline pump is the equivalent to emerge :) actually RD20 might be more popular because it uses less power and is quieter (as opposed to the RD30 which is probably loud as hell).

[virtualrain]

Nope. In my desperate search for one, I called Petra's and Hank up. Hank said there's no way to tell and spent a good half hour going through all of his pumps to find a red impeller by opening them up.

Crap... that sucks.

[sick_g4m3r]

time for a new pump to emerge from the depths of pumpland

[Petra]

Nope. In my desperate search for one, I called Petra's and Hank up. Hank said there's no way to tell and spent a good half hour going through all of his pumps to find a red impeller by opening them up.

Actually, an observant person would tell you that they also changed the screws they are using... the DDC-1's and DDC-2's came with Torx/slot (Torx with a slotted portion that you could get a flat-bladed screwdriver into) screws, whereas the DDC-3.1's and DDC-3.2's all seem to be using phillips head screws (at least, all the ones that I've come across have).

[elfy]

all this talk of blue and red/orange impellers, is it really crummy i've got one with a black impeller?

[ranker]

Actually, an observant person would tell you that they also changed the screws they are using... the DDC-1's and DDC-2's came with Torx/slot (Torx with a slotted portion that you could get a flat-bladed screwdriver into) screws, whereas the DDC-3.1's and DDC-3.2's all seem to be using phillips head screws (at least, all the ones that I've come across have).

Useful info for those in pursuit of those pumps.

[jtok202]

yay got my ddc2 in time:)

[nibble]

Yes, this really doesn't make any sense, why would they make a revision to a pump that decreases it's performance and doesn't add anything else to counter this decreased performance? I'd say WC loops are basically the only thing this pump is used for and watercoolers just aren't going to want to buy this pump anymore, not great business strategy Laing.

[hecktic]

Without looking at the impeller and just looking at the information I have, how do I confirm it is a DDC2 as it says:



Specifications (w/18W DDC-2 / MCP355):

Model: DDCT-01
Top Dimensions: 67mm x 62mm x 23mm
Materiel: Black Delrin/Acetal
Surface Finish: Smooth & Shiny
Inlet/Outlet Thread Type: G1/4 (1/4" BSPP)
Max. Head Pressure (at 12V): 8.1 psig (18.68 feet - 5.7m)
Max. Discharge (at 12V): 3.5 GPM (210 GPH - 13.25 LPM/795 LPH)
Max. Head Pressure (at 13.8V): 10.1 psig (23.3 feet - 7.1m)
Max. Discharge (at 13.8V): 3.99 GPM (239.4 GPH - 15.1 LPM/906 LPH)
Included Accessories: (2x) 1/2" DangerDen High-Flow fittings or (2x) 3/8" DangerDen High-Flow fittings

[Petra]

Without looking at the impeller and just looking at the information I have, how do I confirm it is a DDC2 as it says:

Hmm... those are the specs (also not quite as accurate as the newer specs) of the old DDCT-01 top on a DDC-2 pump. I'm guessing that you're pulling that off of one of our reseller's sites and, as such, you'd have to ask them what you'd actually be getting (none of our resellers buy pumps from us, just tops...and I've had a heck of a time trying to get them to get the specs right anyway :rolleyes: )

[hecktic]

Hmm... those are the specs (also not quite as accurate as the newer specs) of the old DDCT-01 top on a DDC-2 pump. I'm guessing that you're pulling that off of one of our reseller's sites and, as such, you'd have to ask them what you'd actually be getting (none of our resellers buy pumps from us, just tops...and I've had a heck of a time trying to get them to get the specs right anyway :rolleyes: )

thanks and shhh...they only have so many left and I need 6

[LogAn'sRun]

well share then hektic! PM with the info <3 sweden!

[hecktic]

well share then hektic! PM with the info <3 sweden!

After I order my 6 units then Ill share... sorry lol I gotta get mine first.

[BRiT]

Yes, it's a shame that the DDCs available are only the newer 3.2 series. I ordered a set of four from Petras as soon as they got in the shipment from Swiftech a week ago hoping to get a DDC-2 . Unfortunately, they only received DDC-3.2s, or at least that's what was shipped to me. I was a bit disappointed in not being able to score the DDC2s as the site indicated, but I realize there's nothing Petra can do about it. At least now they've updated their website to properly indicate what pumps they have.

But what can you do? Go with a RD-30? I've been there done that with a Panworld PI-24Z equivalent. No thanks. It sounds like a Jet Engine. Way too loud for my tastes today. Such a shame that it's too loud as it does have insane pressure and flow.

[serialk11r]

Yes, it's a shame that the DDCs available are only the newer 3.2 series. I ordered a set of four from Petras as soon as they got in the shipment from Swiftech a week ago hoping to get a DDC-2 . Unfortunately, they only received DDC-3.2s, or at least that's what was shipped to me. I was a bit disappointed in not being able to score the DDC2s as the site indicated, but I realize there's nothing Petra can do about it. At least now they've updated their website to properly indicate what pumps they have.

But what can you do? Go with a RD-30? I've been there done that with a Panworld PI-24Z equivalent. No thanks. It sounds like a Jet Engine. Way too loud for my tastes today. Such a shame that it's too loud as it does have insane pressure and flow.

On another note about the iwaki/panworld/blueline whatever DC pumps, how about the RD20 and its equivalents? Anyone have one who can tell us how loud it is?

[Anemone]

He did say Laing was working on a redesign. So there is long term hope, and short term blah :(

[xrgong]

Man, I'm glad I pulled the trigger and bought my DDC2 a couple weeks ago (from Petra's, no less: thanks for the pen.)

[sick_g4m3r]

hey Petra, so the new specs of the 3.1 and 3.2 (9 and 18W) arent on your site yet?

[Jimmer411]

Time for the RD30s and whatever blueline pump is the equivalent to emerge :) actually RD20 might be more popular because it uses less power and is quieter (as opposed to the RD30 which is probably loud as hell).

Im in the market for a new pump since my Mag3 is getting weak and loud. I just cant justify $300+ lol.


Looks like its time to hunt for another $100> pump :(

[elfy]

Im in the market for a new pump since my Mag3 is getting weak and loud. I just cant justify $300+ lol.


Looks like its time to hunt for another $100> pump :(

mag3, bah, you should hear my knackered magII

tbh i've not heard of a mag3 hehe

[gabe]

Petra's at leasts mentions the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2 pumps.

All the other web sites (swiftech, PPC, DD) I shop show the DDC-2 (MCP-355) as having 20.2 feet of head which is the old good powerful one.

Do they really have it? Or is it the new ones that have the lower head and have not updated?

We just finished our testing of 3.1 and 3.2 and will publish our curves next week.

[Snyxxx]

Gabe,

Are the ones advertised showing the 20ft of head graph on your web site the real DDC-2s or the new DDC-3.2s? If I were to order now, which would I get?

[nealh]

We just finished our testing of 3.1 and 3.2 and will publish our curves next week.

any hints???

[Grinch]

glad my last ddc I got had the orange impeller...*-)

[pie_uk]

Yes, D5 if you like the larger pump size, lower pressure head and large bore plastic nozzles that cannot be changed. Been there. Not again if I can help it. The flow difference in my loop was dramatic with the DDC-2. No contest. D5 lost.

amen to that :clap:

so if you have the 18w DDC-2 with the red impella, you have a better version ? not this 3.2 thing.

tbh as said before, its "highly" unlikely that the company with make the 3.2 worse in terms of performance

[nealh]

amen to that :clap:

so if you have the 18w DDC-2 with the red impella, you have a better version ? not this 3.2 thing.

tbh as said before, its "highly" unlikely that the company with make the 3.2 worse in terms of performance


why ..........companies make stupid decisions all the time

Petra is a very reliable tester..and if he is showing poorer performance someone else who is unbiased and has no vested interest

[SiGfever]

All Swiftech has is the DDC-3.1 and DDC-3.2, DD only has (maybe) 5 of the DDC-2's left (after which, they'll only have the DDC-3.2), and anyone who has ordered from Swiftech or Laing USA in the past few weeks likely has the DDC-3's as well. Most resellers wouldn't even notice the switch until someone mentioned it (like I said months ago, silent change).

Isn't it funny that Laing kept preaching that they were not seeing a large failure rate of the DDC-2 pumps but yet they re-engineered to a lower performance model. :shrug:

[Anemone]

Seriously. One has to wonder if they knew somehow that they were pushing it too far?

Dunno, but it makes one wonder.

[pie_uk]

hmm, yeah i see what you're saying.

maybe the failure rate was too high or something?

must be a reason behind it.

and yeah if petra has tested it and it performs weaker then.... glad i got mine when i did

[nealh]

Isn't it funny that Laing kept preaching that they were not seeing a large failure rate of the DDC-2 pumps but yet they re-engineered to a lower performance model. :shrug:

this is probably the key reason for decreaing performance..but seems like too much of a drop...outside of form factor the lower performance really makes you think of getting a D5 pump, becasue of the excellent track record

[Jedda]

Nah, hate the moulded in barbs.
If folks are considering thinner bore tubing who wants fixed half inch on their pump?

[hecktic]

Well looks like I Cant get any more DDC2s... apparently Petras got them all back from the reseller I was going to get my 6 DDC2s from.... on the other hand the reseller told me he had 1 fail then rmad it back and then got it said as fixed and then had to rma it again..... I think Ill stick with an mcp655 ... no other choice anyways with exception to RDs which are massive and large and noisy.

[MotF Bane]

Laing Thermotech DDC Electronic Cooling Pump Now RoHS Compliant
Laing Thermotech's DDC electronic cooling pump is now RoHS compliant, making it possible for American manufacturers to produce and sell complete units in the European Union (EU). The cost-efficient, high-performance DDC is ideal for manufacturers seeking a RoHS-compliant pump for a wide range of applications.

Chula Vista, CA (PRWEB) April 18, 2007 -- Laing Thermotech is pleased to announce that its DDC Electronics Cooling pump is now RoHS-compliant. The DDC is leading the way by being the first product in its class to meet the new RoHS Directive, which became effective July 1, 2006. RoHS compliance is important because it allows American manufacturers to produce and sell complete units in the EU.


"We are excited to be able to provide the first small circulator pump that complies with the RoHS requirements," says Laing's CEO, Scott S. Shimer.

The RoHS Directive stands for, "the restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances in electrical and electronic equipment." More specifically, the Directive prohibits the placement on the EU market of new electrical and electronic equipment containing more than agreed levels of lead, cadmium, mercury, hexavalent chromium, polybrominated biphenyl (PBB) and polybrominated diphenyl ether (PBDE) flame retardants.

Laing's ground-breaking DDC is the perfect solution for manufacturers that are looking for a RoHS-compliant pump for a wide variety of uses including: chillers, DI (di-ionized) water applications, biomedical, biofuels, filtration systems, medical equipment, fuel cells and optic, as well as most advanced electronics cooling. The broad range of applications makes the DDC one of the most versatile circulator pumps on the market today. The DDC pump is the smallest pump in its class and can fit into very confined spaces. When compared to other pumps in its class, the DDC:

• performs at a higher level
• uses considerably less power
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• requires virtually no maintenance
• lasts much longer

Laing's launch of the RoHS-compliant DDC is indicative of the company's legacy of offering innovative products that meet industry and consumer demand. The company is an industry pioneer with a long history of bringing revolutionary products to the marketplace. Laing released the first practical do-it-yourself instant hot water circulation system and, today, it offers a full line of low-energy-consumption, fractional-horsepower pumps for residential, solar and industrial use. Recently Laing introduce the revolutionary solution for owners of tankless water heater.

For more information about the DDC, visit http://www.lainginc.com/DDC-2.htm or http://www.lainginc.com/DDC-1.htm.

About Laing Thermotech Inc.
Laing Thermotech Inc. is part of the Laing family of companies, which originated in Stuttgart, Germany in the early 1970's with the introduction of unique solar and pump products. Today, Laing primarily focuses on manufacturing fractional-horsepower pumps, flow-through heaters, and hydronic heating components. The company's products are sold worldwide, with sales and distribution operations in Germany, Japan and the United States, as well as a manufacturing, sales and distribution facilities in Hungary. Laing employs innovative technologies to create product designs that are reliable, compact, less expensive to install and operate, and easier to service in the field. The company holds a large number of registered patents in consumer, commercial and industrial markets.

For More Information, Contact:
Bob Hutslar, National Sales Manager Plumbing & Heating
(619) 575-7466 Ext. 112
bhutslar @ lainginc.com









There is probably your answer as to why they would make weaker pumps. Making everything RoHS compliant could have increased production cost, so they had to make a weaker product to reduce the price. Either that, or the RoHS compliant motors are weaker at the same original production cost, and they don't want to raise the price.

[Snyxxx]

MotF Bane,

Nice find. Thanks. I guess I could have at least gone to the website.