Yate Loons: Difference in Petra's, Jab-Tech's, and others'

[Petra]

I think they all come open now tho? Can someone correct me on there last petra's yate sale?

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.

[k00lance]

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.

Possible fake ?! :eek:

[Petra]

Possible fake ?! :eek:

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet, as I have a little more investigating to do... but, simply put, we don't carry open-cornered Yates because they aren't something that Yate Loon manufactures.

[ranker]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet, as I have a little more investigating to do... but, simply put, we don't carry open-cornered Yates because they aren't something that Yate Loon manufactures.

Browsing through different forums and sites leads me to the same conclusion. Most refer to Yate Loons as closed corner fans needing different types of fan screws.

[Jedda]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet, as I have a little more investigating to do... but, simply put, we don't carry open-cornered Yates because they aren't something that Yate Loon manufactures.

Having some understanding of the interlocked maze of sub-contracting that Pearl River Delta and Chinese manufacturing can be, I think Alex wise to with-hold judgement on that point, for the time being.
Without definite assurance from Yate Loon themselves, not an agent or intermediary, it would be shaky ground to venture on.

[serialk11r]

Speaking of the yates, I think my jab-tech open cornered blingy ones are quieter than the orange ones I have and airflow is more or less the same :confused:

[NaeKuh]

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh alex.. please look into this. I think i will go email john and ask him as well.

But they sound like your yates. i compared them b4. :shrug:

Alex, i always consider you a valuable source of info. So i take everything you say seriously, unless you told me the sky was falling tommarrow. :P

[NaeKuh]

sorry for the double post, but i think this itself needs to be sepreate:

Email from john:

"I'll throw a wrench in the works here.. We all but ran out of the open corner low speed yates, our latest batch came as closed corner (Distro ran out of open corner but another shipment is due soon).

You'll find that everyone else buys from the same place as me too (FrozenCPU, Coolerguys, PPC's etc)

I'll make a post on XS later today.

John"


John said he was going to look more into it. But it would be safe to say, knowing how big frozencpu is, if their using the same yates, i dont have a problem with jab-tech's yates.

PS. I also said they sounded the same. :shrug:

[jabtech]

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.


Afternoon Fellas !

According to our supplier Yate loon has open and closed corner molds. You are correct that we don't buy from Yate Loon and the distributor who sells these to just about everyone in USA (except Petra it seems) uses a trading company in China to purchase from Yate loon. (Hence the reason why Yate Loon say our distributor isn't a customer)

We sold our frist Yate Loon fan June 30th 2005 and have sold over 25,000 since then with no complaints and barely any RMA's (probably less than 50).

I'll update this if/when I get any more info.

John
www.jab-tech.com

[IanY]

Welcome John from Jabtech.

Good to have you here. Some competition benefits all.

[Gunlance]

I have a pair of yates from eptra and from JT. The ones from JT ALL make a noise from the motor. A small ALMOST inaudible whine. The ones I got from Petras make no noise. The ones from jT have the numbers 711 on then versus 501 from petra. It was enough of a whine that I went ahead and reordered more from Petra.

BTW, thats a crazy butt load of parts. ENJOY the massive cooling!

[NaeKuh]

I have a pair of yates from eptra and from JT. The ones from JT ALL make a noise from the motor. A small ALMOST inaudible whine. The ones I got from Petras make no noise. The ones from jT have the numbers 711 on then versus 501 from petra. It was enough of a whine that I went ahead and reordered more from Petra.

BTW, thats a crazy butt load of parts. ENJOY the massive cooling!

You sure you got the correct versions?

Because when i compare low speed petra to low speed jt, they sound the same.

When i compare medium speed yates from pt, and JT, they both sound pretty much the same.

When i compare a high speed with petras, well i dont have a high speed petras. He wasnt selling them when i wanted it.


But when i compare a medium speed to a high speed at full speed.

Then yeah, the high speed is a bit louder.


You sure you got your speeds the same? even serial says he cant hear a difference. Same goes with other people who used jt's yates.

[jabtech]

Welcome John from Jabtech.

Good to have you here. Some competition benefits all.


Thank You Sir.


I have a pair of yates from eptra and from JT. The ones from JT ALL make a noise from the motor. A small ALMOST inaudible whine. The ones I got from Petras make no noise. The ones from jT have the numbers 711 on then versus 501 from petra. It was enough of a whine that I went ahead and reordered more from Petra.

BTW, thats a crazy butt load of parts. ENJOY the massive cooling!

Did you get open corner or closed ?

The current ones we have:

Closed Corner = 704
Open Corner = 511

I have one of each running next to me right now and I can't differentiate between them, but then again I am not as sensitive to sound as some people.

[Vapor]

Just got my big fan order from J-T today....the BL, the SH, and the clear fans all have open corners. The orange SL has closed corners, but has the SH's fin structure, not the SL's :confused:

I'll put the lot through the wringer first in my part 2 roundup and see what I can add to the party.

Just from quick listening tests on the three clear/LED varieties: Petra's has a bit more motor noise (relative to wind noise at least), the clear colorless (J-T) made this light fluttering sound, and the clear blue (J-T) made a slight, slight click. Petra's is the least obtrusive from really close, and according to my empirical tests.

12V CFM numbers:
Petra: 44.5CFM, 26.8dBA
J-T colorless: 51.7CFM, 33.5dBA (....weird....)
J-T blue: 49.5CFM, 29.7dBA


About the SH's @ 12V:
Petra: 76.7CFM, 37.2dBA
J-T: 70.1CFM, 36.6dBA

[Petra]

According to our supplier Yate loon has open and closed corner molds.

Now, that's interesting... because the rep that Yate Loon put us in contact with keeps telling us that they don't--same thing goes for color of plastics (the only LED version we can get is the one that's on our site, the two that you're getting through Proten are both different). See, we get our fans through a representative in China that Yate Loon put us contact with a while back. I believe that much of the difficulty that I've been having in figuring out what's going on is due to the language barrier.

Anyway, there are some other interesting differences that I've noticed between the fans, as far as PCB/motor design goes (not mentioning odd detail things like mismatched sticker sizes and such):

http://www.petrastech.com/YHST/images/fans/led_compro.jpg
http://www.petrastech.com/YHST/images/fans/motor_front_compro.jpg
http://www.petrastech.com/YHST/images/fans/motor_back_compro.jpg

For reference, here's the back and front of a standard Yate Loon D12SL-12 motor and the back of a Nexus D12SL-12 motor (also made by Yate Loon):
http://www.petrastech.com/YHST/images/fans/d12sl12_compro.jpg
http://www.petrastech.com/YHST/images/fans/d12sl12_fronts.jpg


12V CFM numbers:
Petra: 44.5CFM
J-T colorless: 51.7CFM
J-T blue: 49.5CFM
Keep in mind that Yate Loon specs our LED D12SL-12's as running 100 RPM below standard SL spec, according to them, to reduce vibration resulting from the properties of the plastics used.

[Vapor]

I've updated my dBA/CFM results for all the PTS/J-T fans I have for direct comparison....go two posts up :)

And yeah, the 100RPM deficiency would explain the lower CFM and lower dBA. The fluttering and clicking noises might be those vibrational noises that Y-L wanted to avoid.

Also other notes:
PTS clear blue: Y-L stickers on both sides (larger on the back), SH blade structure...model #703
J-T clear colorless: Y-L sticker on the back (small), SL/SM blade structure, modle # 511
J-T clear blue: Y-L sticker on the back (small) and a black sticker on the front, SL/SM blade structure, model #511

[jabtech]

http://site.petrastechshop.com/images/fans/d12sl12_compro.jpg

I just tore apart a black one and it has that same PCB.

We've been told all kinds of things with Yate Loon fans over the years.. Been trying to convince them to make the 140mm Low speed model but they say they can't.

Edit
Try and get this one for a comparison too.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2764/fuv-07/Yate_Loon_D12SL-12_Blue_UV_Reactive_120mm_Fan.html#blank

[Vapor]

http://site.petrastechshop.com/images/fans/d12sl12_compro.jpg

I just tore apart a black one and it has that same PCB.

We've been told all kinds of things with Yate Loon fans over the years.. Been trying to convince them to make the 140mm Low speed model but they say they can't.They absolutely can...:rolleyes:...the 140mm SM I just got only spins at 1040RPM (SL is spec'd at 1000, SM at 1400RPM). Not sure why it spins so slowly....but apparently they can make the fans.

Is Yate Loon over-extended maybe?

In other news....I'll be splitting this thread to remove our hijack and let the OP show off his cool WC gear :)

[eXceeded]

This reminds me of the story about some chinese company duplicating another company and making the same products with the same name.. I'll try and dig up the article...

EDIT http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=C42SQL5VK2GUMQSNDBCSK H0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=187200176

[serialk11r]

I have fans from jab-tech, I bought 6 of the original LED yate loons you guys carried, which had clear frames, DIFFERENT blades, and the same PCB with the orange yates people usually use :confused: the LEDs were to my dismay hotglued on but that's another issue. The LED ones were quieter than the orange ones I got.

[Cpt Twitchy]

Can someone please explain the difference to me between open and closed corner fans?

[Gunlance]

You sure you got the correct versions?

Because when i compare low speed petra to low speed jt, they sound the same.

When i compare medium speed yates from pt, and JT, they both sound pretty much the same.

When i compare a high speed with petras, well i dont have a high speed petras. He wasnt selling them when i wanted it.


But when i compare a medium speed to a high speed at full speed.

Then yeah, the high speed is a bit louder.


You sure you got your speeds the same? even serial says he cant hear a difference. Same goes with other people who used jt's yates.

Yes i got the same version fans. I at first thought it was the thermochill neoprene gasket hitting the fan blades, but the fans do it while in free air.


Thank You Sir.



Did you get open corner or closed ?

The current ones we have:

Closed Corner = 704
Open Corner = 511

I have one of each running next to me right now and I can't differentiate between them, but then again I am not as sensitive to sound as some people.

I got the closed ends from PTS and the open ends from you guys.

I thought i was going crazy, but I had another person verify. The ones I got with the open ends are making a type of motor noise that the closed ends one do not make. On its own it won't matter, but when talking about 8 or 9 fans all making the same noise, then the overall noise gets a lot bigger.

Maybe I'm just going crazy :D

BTW, just in case anyone thinks that I'm bashing JT or anything of that nature, I shop regulary at both stores and will continue to do so.

[NaeKuh]

Can someone please explain the difference to me between open and closed corner fans?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0704.jpg


You see how you can see my screws though the fan? that means open. Closed means it would be covered by plastic so you couldnt see them.

@Gunlance nonononono your opinions are very important. If you notice anything different about yours, then its proper to bring them up. Were trying to get this mystery question done and over with.

But you definitely posted an interesting statement. I have all my SH's on fan controlers so i turned them down a bit to a not noticible lvls. But then again i have 4 raptors screaming right behind them.

But i think Vapor is running tests right now, so we should find out what it really is.

[nealh]

I have gotten all my YL from JT over last 3yrs

I am glad others seem to find the orange more noisy than the black SL..I cant quantify it but the orange is not my favorite

all my SL are closed corner

I was just about to order about 8 fans ..so I will wait and see what turns up

BTW..still not sure how the screws for open corner vs closed corner woud differ?

[Vapor]

But i think Vapor is running tests right now, so we should find out what it really is.My DMM is in the mail....so I can only test 12V and ~7V right now. The 12V numbers are posted above in post #14.

Subjective noise....the J-T is a little higher pitched, but Petra's is louder (more airflow mainly, if I had to guess). Neither are annoying or have extraneous noise at 12V.

[Spawne32]

Maybe this explains why my medium speed loonie i bought from JT makes loud grinding noises when undervolted? I was under the assumption that yate loons were good at undervolting all the way down to 2.5v... ? or am i mistaken.

[septim]

the chinese guy copying the other chinese guy is pretty much true.

well here, there are manufactured goods from china with quality, after a while if product is successfull, you'll eventually see another same product with almost same features same name but a little less quality from another chinese manufacturer...

btw, since a rep of jabtech is here, maybe he can clarify some issue with some members not being able to access J-t site...

[virtualrain]

It seems there is yet another variation of the YL being sold by PPC's which is UV reactive...

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=221&products_id=21707

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/YateLoonUVB120_01.jpg

[Spawne32]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/ughdunno2.gif

[IanY]

Much ado nothing?

[Pete]

Problem is these shops (no offern PTS or Jab Tech) buying these copied fans.

I was about to order $300 worth of kit off Jab Tech inc 20+ Yate fans to the UK.

My UK surplier CPC now stock open corner. He's said that Yate do them.

They also come in a white glossy card bord box now...

[Cpt Twitchy]

Thanks for the clarification NaeKuh

I ordered some YL D12SL-12's some time ago from SVC and they are indeed the closed end models. If you would like some pictures of them I would be more then willing to contribute. I also noticed that on SVC's site they have the very opaque bodied blue LED ones like Petra's.

[Petra]

I also noticed that on SVC's site they have the very opaque bodied blue LED ones like Petra's.
SVC's blue LED SL-12 should be the same as the clear framed/blue LED SL-12 from Jab-Tech.


They also come in a white glossy card bord box now...
That's one of the things that I think is a little odd because Yate Loon doesn't typically cater to the retail market (OEM only)--somewhere along the line, they're being repackaged. All of our fans arrive, unpackaged, in cases of 100 directly from Yate Loon.

[hecktic]

Well thanks to this thread, I wont be buying any Yate loons.... dont want to dabble with potentially problematic or fake stuff.... no offense Jab tech or PTS or performance pcs.... just dont want to even deal with yate loons after reading this.... Ill stick to noisy but powerfull delta fans lol... hehe T-balancer can tame them... some that is...

[Sparky]

I got 4 D12SM-12 yates from Petra, using 3 of them on my rad (got 4 to have a spare). All of them are closed corner. One thing I did notice, the plastic inside the hub area that holds the coils is a light blue color on one and orange on the others, and the blue one is slightly quieter (less rubbing/motor noise) than the orange ones :shrug: Maybe it is just me :nuts:

They are all really good though. No weird noises from undervolting at all on my rheobus.

[NaeKuh]

Well thanks to this thread, I wont be buying any Yate loons.... dont want to dabble with potentially problematic or fake stuff.... no offense Jab tech or PTS or performance pcs.... just dont want to even deal with yate loons after reading this.... Ill stick to noisy but powerfull delta fans lol... hehe T-balancer can tame them... some that is...

didnt vapor say that both are excellent?

The only difference he saw was that the JT was a bit more high pitched, while the PT was louder?


These arent bad fans. And at around 4-6 dollars each, there a hell of a deal. And both JT and PT have discounts on bulk, so what more could you possibly ask for?


I would still take any of these fans over a silentX. Or shall i relink the nightmare massavile ran into?

[Jimmer411]

didnt vapor say that both are excellent?

The only difference he saw was that the JT was a bit more high pitched, while the PT was louder?


These arent bad fans. And at around 4-6 dollars each, there a hell of a deal. And both JT and PT have discounts on bulk, so what more could you possibly ask for?


I would still take any of these fans over a silentX. Or shall i relink the nightmare massavile ran into?



Re link please! There is alot of good info in this thread, it couldnt hurt to add more :D

[Vapor]

Re link please! There is alot of good info in this thread, it couldnt hurt to add more :D....I said it only a few posts up :confused:

I have a J-T all-orange SL, and a PPCs orange/black SL (closed corner), but I guess I'll be buying all-black SLs from each place now too.

[jinsean]

a long time ago (2 years?), I ordered 2 yate loons SLs from jabtech. I intentionally ordered 2 because I had read over at SPCRs forum that not all YLs are equally quiet (quality control?). On my current order from jabtech, I ordered 13 Yate Loon SLs. I'll test them out and see how quality control is.

Btw, yeah, one of the yate loons I ordered made a slightly more annoying noise than the other. So I chucked that one and kept the other. Both are extremely quiet compared to other fans running at 1500+ RPM, but the noise characteristic of both the YLs I got were NOT the same.

Of course, I could only tell the difference b/t the noise characteristics when literally sticking my ears a few inches from the fans, but I still wanted the quietest one possible cuz at night it gets pretty quiet in my room and that kinda stuff would just bug me (subconciously if nothing else).

But yeah, at like $3-4 per fan. The hell if I care if they're made by some crappy no name company... Spend $100 on 4 or 5 noctua/silenx/nexus or spend $30 on like 10 Yates... I'd choose the yates in heart beat....

I guess my opinion is somewhat relative as I never have bought any other "silent" 120mm fans hehe. Only have a thermal take and antec tri cool to compare against, but those all ran at 1300+ RPM even at 5v so I never really used them.

Just sharing my experience.

[96redformula]

I just bought 4 yate loons from jab-tech about 2-3 weeks ago. I bought a SL, two SM's, and SH.

All of them are open ended and are definatly near their rated specs noise wise. All of them are very quiet and the SH if quieter at full load than other fans I have here that are rated at 36DB. I have no high pitch whines or unfamilar noises.

[burton]

i have 6 of them from jt and they work perfect

[sergers]

i purchase from a local shop that purchases directly from yate loon.

they get a shipment every 2 weeks for the past few months, they have never seen the open corners version...

by going off the pictures, they are the same as what PTS has.

Alex is correct, yate-loons do not come in packaged boxes, they come in 100 lots+ (the place I get them from gets them in lots of 500).

the other sites might be selling good quality fans, but they seem to be modified... whether its the singles packaging or the cut corners

[safan80]

good thing I don't care for all the bling.. I always buy black ones.

[Baron]

I bought 8 D12SL-12 Yate Loons the around 2 weeks ago from Jab-Tech arrived about a week later (im in UK) and they all came open corners in their little white boxs.

They seem to be exactly the same as the clear ones that I bought from CPC here in the UK.

[C'DaleRider]

Well, heck, I just bought two Yate-Loons from JT a couple of weeks ago. A pair of D12SM-12's. White boxed, open corners.

And I've already modded them.....sleeved the wires and removed the Molex pass-throughs.....so I'm sorta stuck with them.

Knew I should have bought the S-Flex's instead.

[hecktic]

didnt vapor say that both are excellent?

The only difference he saw was that the JT was a bit more high pitched, while the PT was louder?


These arent bad fans. And at around 4-6 dollars each, there a hell of a deal. And both JT and PT have discounts on bulk, so what more could you possibly ask for?


I would still take any of these fans over a silentX. Or shall i relink the nightmare massavile ran into?

As I said I just dont want to deal with them.... Ill stick with my noisy fans for performance but with my tbalancer as well when I need the silence... granted this is not the ideal setup, its good enough for my purpose... 5 loops plus summer is deadly so my deltas can fight it off with high air flow :) .... plus aside from dynomite or whatever its called, I keep my plantronics puffy 40mm cushion sized speakers on each ear.... really a headset and it blocks out some more noise from reaching my ears :)

[IanY]

They are cheap alright.. about the only good thing I have to say...so I'll stop there.

[nealh]

They are cheap alright.. about the only good thing I have to say...so I'll stop there.

is there any consensus on which are the quieter fans..seems both have pros/cons

[Jedda]

The quietest seem to be the Petra's sourced variety.

[IanY]

is there any consensus on which are the quieter fans..seems both have pros/cons

Neal,

You really should not work on consensus. There is way too much of a herd mentality in here. A change in the wind direction and the droves of cattle come stampeding (no offense to anyone).

Yate Loons are neither the quietest at a given airflow cfm, nor the most efficient cfm producer at a given noise level.

They are certainly very cheap. As with all things cheap, you get what you pay for.

You need to make your own decisions as which fans you would like to use. Look at Vapor's review in the aircooling section. He reviews around 30 different fans.

I would not just use whatever anyone uses, or use whatever a retailer decides to sell (no offense to anyone). Its your computer, your water cooling, and so you choose what you like.

I'm sorry for going on the offensive like that.... but if I were a total newbie, I would come in here and I would get the impression that Yate Loons are the best! And that is total absolute banana apple orange banana banana banana banana pineapple banana kiwi banana.

[k00lance]

Yate loons, by price per performance wise, probably the best you can buy. ;)
I like my yate loons more than I like my s-flexs.

[IanY]

If price per performance were so important, you wouldn't have a XXX SLI would you, or for that matter an SR ? :)

[Bail_w]

All the Yate loon fans i purchased from Jab-Tech are closed corners and they work great.

[nealh]

Neal,

You really should not work on consensus. There is way too much of a herd mentality in here. A change in the wind direction and the droves of cattle come stampeding (no offense to anyone).

Yate Loons are neither the quietest at a given airflow cfm, nor the most efficient cfm producer at a given noise level.

They are certainly very cheap. As with all things cheap, you get what you pay for.

You need to make your own decisions as which fans you would like to use. Look at Vapor's review in the aircooling section. He reviews around 30 different fans.

I would not just use whatever anyone uses, or use whatever a retailer decides to sell (no offense to anyone). Its your computer, your water cooling, and so you choose what you like.

I'm sorry for going on the offensive like that.... but if I were a total newbie, I would come in here and I would get the impression that Yate Loons are the best! And that is total absolute banana apple orange banana banana banana banana pineapple banana kiwi banana.

No your points are well taken...I hate fan noise and over the years tried several fans...Nexus are very nice but just do not move enough air for most needs...but quiet

Panaflos..120x38 M1A...worst fan I have..way too noisy for me, L1A is ok if undervolted to 7v

My YL do vary in noise quality but overall they are nice fans...although I think my orange YL is a bit more noisy than my black ones

I wish there was a way to listen to some of the fans prior to purchase...

Consensus was a poor choice...more like a poll would have given me more info

Since I hopefully will get a V2100b to place my PA120.3 in the bottom..I prefer quiet fans...which do not cost an arm and a leg for the PA120.3

I wish there was a fan that had the noise noise level of the Nexus that moved more cfm without costing a fortune

[IanY]

The fact that the noise level varies considerably for different fans of the same make and model is not a good testament to quality.

[k00lance]

If price per performance were so important, you wouldn't have a XXX SLI would you, or for that matter an SR ? :)

I had about 8 8800GTXs and I kept the best I've got. Cloking matters. :D
I had 1KW for a long time and PPC did a favor for me. ;)

[Pete]

SO what the out come here?

[eXa]

Neal,

You really should not work on consensus. There is way too much of a herd mentality in here. A change in the wind direction and the droves of cattle come stampeding (no offense to anyone).

Yate Loons are neither the quietest at a given airflow cfm, nor the most efficient cfm producer at a given noise level.

They are certainly very cheap. As with all things cheap, you get what you pay for.

You need to make your own decisions as which fans you would like to use. Look at Vapor's review in the aircooling section. He reviews around 30 different fans.

I would not just use whatever anyone uses, or use whatever a retailer decides to sell (no offense to anyone). Its your computer, your water cooling, and so you choose what you like.

I'm sorry for going on the offensive like that.... but if I were a total newbie, I would come in here and I would get the impression that Yate Loons are the best! And that is total absolute banana apple orange banana banana banana banana pineapple banana kiwi banana.

So wich one is the best then?

[crackbag]

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.

i dont know ive talked to the jab-tech guy and he is very helpfull i would recomend anyone to him

[nealh]

So wich one is the best then?

this fan was recommeded by Vapor after testing as the "best low speed" fan(YL little better on rads supposedly)..but very quiet
Silverstone RL-FN121 9-Bladed Silent Fan
from Vapor's thread
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137832


Silverstone FN121
Size: 120x120x25
Flanging: closed
Subjective Noise: Extremely quiet. No extraneous noises....very impressive acousitically. Also dead silent at 7V (only fan to claim that in the first batch).
Minimum running voltage: 2.7V
Notes: Loses a step against the Yate with radiator CFM....but CPU temps are also much better than the Yate. This is my pick for the best low speed fan if your budget can afford it.

$6.88..if google from case-mod
http://www.case-mod.com/120mm-case-fan-silverstone-rlfn121-9bladed-silent-fan-p-2282.html?src=fr

I bought some and will let you know

[p8ntslinger676]

I bought 8 D12SL-12 Yate Loons the around 2 weeks ago from Jab-Tech arrived about a week later (im in UK) and they all came open corners in their little white boxs.


All the Yate loon fans i purchased from Jab-Tech are closed corners and they work great.

WTF. Jabtech might just be buying from two dealers then? that would be my guess. but if you ask me that is kind of shady and i dont really like what im seeing from Jabtech, i think i will stick with Alex since he doesnt get the "same" fans from two different sources.

[AndyM]

Got some black YL's from jabtech yesterday...regular YL closed ear fans.

[NaeKuh]

Re link please! There is alot of good info in this thread, it couldnt hurt to add more :D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140414&highlight=YATES+4TW%21

Here is where massavile got majorly PWNED!


i dont know ive talked to the jab-tech guy and he is very helpfull i would recomend anyone to him

John is a great guy. I seriously promote his store as well as petras. Jab-tech is Not based in Cali, so we dont get TAX'd on some stuffs. Petras' has faster turn around time for me because he lives 300 miles north of where i am.

So its all on the basis of convenience. Also, i need to buy something from alex at least once a month so quoc doesnt forget who i am! :D

As for jab-tech, im always buying something new on there watercooling sections.

As i said, both stores are definitely A++ Raited in my book. And so far no one ive recomended either store to has anything bad to say about them. Infact im sure there all returning customers.

[Cathar]

Yate Loons are neither the quietest at a given airflow cfm, nor the most efficient cfm producer at a given noise level.


When on a radiator, (which some crazy people suggest is relevant to watercooling - go figure) they are one of the quietest, highest flowing fans around.

Somewhat odd in some of those Vapor tests is that the Yate Loon being reviewed seems to be somewhat noisy in comparison to the other fans tested that I personally have to compare mine to.



They are certainly very cheap. As with all things cheap, you get what you pay for.


What's that? One of the best, quietest, highest flowing radiator fans (up to what it can provide), and all at an amazingly low price?

As with ALL fans I've tested from different manufacturers, there are inherent variations between two exact same fans models from the same manufacturer. This is not something that is inherent to Yate Loon. I've bought and tested many fans and have often noticed that given two fans from any manufacturer, one fan will be quieter and flow better, while another will be noisier and almost invariably perform worse. It's just inherent mechanical variations.

If one really wants a quiet radiator fan, you'd pick any of the top 5 fans from that review (for radiators) and buy 10 of them, test them all and pick the 1-3 best that you need and sell the rest.

What's somewhat interesting though is that you can buy 10 yate-loons for the price of a single fan from some other manufacturers, do your tests and simply toss the rest if you don't care.

I wouldn't draw more than an advisory indication from a review of a single fan. I've personally seen +/-10% variances in noise/flow from most manufacturers, and like I said above, often it's the quieter ones which perform better because they're better balanced.

[Grinch]

well put cathar...healing up nicely still?

[IanY]

Cathar,

I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just happen to be one of a few people who disagree with the quality and performance of the Yate Loon. Have I bought Yate Loons? Of course, I use them in a couple of machines. Like I said, they are a real bargain and even I cannot pass up on a bargain.

However, we aren't exactly debating whether these fans are a bargain, are we? I am challenging the supposition that these are the absolute best fans available, at whatever price. They certainly are not, and its not as though they just miss out as being the very best.

From the end user experiences of my small circle, which obviously is not representative of the public at large, the quality of these fans are suspect, to put in kindly. The inconsistency in quality among individual fans is highly troubling. As you point out, people are in the habit of buying a couple and possibly tossing out a couple. No matter how cheap the fans are, that is just not an acceptable practice to me.

I purchase my fans from the manufacturer, and their product has been uniform. Even if one were not to regard the product as the best, at least there is consistency of the product. A glass of Coca Cola should taste the same all around the world, at all times, in all locations. Obviously, this is not true for Yate Loons. Look at this very thread, where people are debating the merits (and I think its silly) between a close ended fan and an open ended fan.

Well, I cannot impose my opinion on anyone but myself. I will go on and use what I need to use. I will avoid Yate Loon like the plague in all the machines I consider dear.

I bid you a speedy recovery and the best regards.

Peace to all.

[NaeKuh]

WTF. Jabtech might just be buying from two dealers then? that would be my guess. but if you ask me that is kind of shady and i dont really like what im seeing from Jabtech, i think i will stick with Alex since he doesnt get the "same" fans from two different sources.

OMG learn to read please and stop flaming jab-tech.

I have said this countless amounts of time, They are both great stores and i recomend BOTH to everyone. No one has yet to complain about the service or quality from either.

And i believe john's statements were, he went though 1 distributor. But they started shipping out different corners. John said he didnt buy from yate directly, But his distributor is the same source for SVC, another great store, and FrozenCPU, <--- probably the biggest out of everyone.

So dont be trying to draft up conspiracy theories.


Afternoon Fellas !

According to our supplier Yate loon has open and closed corner molds. You are correct that we don't buy from Yate Loon and the distributor who sells these to just about everyone in USA (except Petra it seems) uses a trading company in China to purchase from Yate loon. (Hence the reason why Yate Loon say our distributor isn't a customer)

We sold our frist Yate Loon fan June 30th 2005 and have sold over 25,000 since then with no complaints and barely any RMA's (probably less than 50).

I'll update this if/when I get any more info.

John
www.jab-tech.com


After that last bold, yeah, if a company is so shaddy, explain the last set of bold's

THAT Should be the correct quotes. Not what you posted.


on a sidenote, i started getting LED keychains with my JT orders. :P And there pretty cool. I'll try to take a picture and post it.

[nealh]

IanY...
I am not sure everyone is saying they are the best, I think most feel on overall price:performance they are almost impossible to beat(your favorite PApst is likely a better quality fan and more consistent in noise and performance..I have considered buy a few to try it just gets expensive after awhile)

are there variations between fans..yes...more than some of the more expensive fans...in some cases yes

I am a big fan of YL simple because they work well and mine have lasted for yrs...do I see some fan variation yes
Can I live with it since they cost $4 yes

This is my subjective opinion..is it right..maybe, probably not ..who knows

with that said....
I bought some Silverstone fans based on Vapor's recommendation to test and see how they compare...they cost $7....2x as much

All I hope is they are quiter and nearly as good from CFM as the YL...if not I will order 3 more YL for my radiator...

[nealh]

OMG learn to read please and stop flaming jab-tech.

I have said this countless amounts of time, They are both great stores and i recomend BOTH to everyone. No one has yet to complain about the service or quality from either.

And i believe john's statements were, he went though 1 distributor. But they started shipping out different corners. John said he didnt buy from yate directly, But his distributor is the same source for SVC, another great store, and FrozenCPU, <--- probably the biggest out of everyone.

So dont be trying to draft up conspiracy theories.




After that last bold, yeah, if a company is so shaddy, explain the last set of bold's

THAT Should be the correct quotes. Not what you posted.


on a sidenote, i started getting LED keychains with my JT orders. :P And there pretty cool. I'll try to take a picture and post it.

I agree 100%..I have bought for yrs from Jabtech..fast shippest, excellent prices and great CS

Petr'a shop is terrific and he is one of us..as well

[NaeKuh]

well if you want the best fan, i believe it was the sharkloon 2000 golfball.

And it makes complete sense if you play golf. However, there kinda pricey.


But im not getting into this debate. I just like yates because there:

1. Really cheap, if they break, or somethign happens, so what, throw it away.
2. There really quiet when downclocked. But who cares unless your going for the super quiet approach with low overclocks. :T And also, you tell me a way to silence 4 raptors. Then i'll think about that extra 3-5dB.

3. I have a RD-30... You cant silence that at 2/3rd voltage. :rofl:

[nealh]

well if you want the best fan, i believe it was the sharkloon 2000 golfball.

And it makes complete sense if you play golf. However, there kinda pricey.


But im not getting into this debate. I just like yates because there:

1. Really cheap, if they break, or somethign happens, so what, throw it away.
2. There really quiet when downclocked. But who cares unless your going for the super quiet approach with low overclocks. :T And also, you tell me a way to silence 4 raptors. Then i'll think about that extra 3-5dB.

3. I have a RD-30... You cant silence that at 2/3rd voltage. :rofl:

I got the Silverston's because price was good at $7 and Vapor after testing a ton of fans liked them..seemed like a good fan to try and getting a few YL if I am not really happy is still very inexpensive

[Grinch]

YL's are a great fan for the $$$...no denying that! However there are better fans out there...question is are you willing to shell out more of your $$$ for them?

[DarthBeavis]

I use Yate Loons and SilenX . . .If I am going for a blue them Yate if Red SilenX . . .both seem to work well on my PA 120.2s and PA 120.3s. . .they are all pretty quiet . . .tho the SilenXs have a phase change unit to contend with noise wise.

[ranker]

well if you want the best fan, i believe it was the sharkloon 2000 golfball.

And it makes complete sense if you play golf. However, there kinda pricey.


i agree. I bought the Silverstone, Papst, and Golfballs all when Vapor's review first came out. Papst and Golfballs seemed to push the same amount of air, but I noticed that the golfballs were quieter and temps were lower than the Papst and Silverstones.

However, with that said, I couldn't continue buying 10 fans for 15$ a piece just for one build. That's just ridiculous. I ended up trying Yates. They're quieter than any of the fans above and perform reasonably. With their low price, the own the price/performance market.

If you're Mr. Moneybags, I'd recommend stuff like Golfballs and if none can be found, empapst fans. However, even with my liberal budget for toys, I couldn't sleep knowing that 3 of my fans cost as much as a waterblock.

[DarthBeavis]

i agree. I bought the Silverstone, Papst, and Golfballs all when Vapor's review first came out. Papst and Golfballs seemed to push the same amount of air, but I noticed that the golfballs were quieter and temps were lower than the Papst and Silverstones.

However, with that said, I couldn't continue buying 10 fans for 15$ a piece just for one build. That's just ridiculous. I ended up trying Yates. They're quieter than any of the fans above and perform reasonably. With their low price, the own the price/performance market.

If you're Mr. Moneybags, I'd recommend stuff like Golfballs and if none can be found, empapst fans. However, even with my liberal budget for toys, I couldn't sleep knowing that 3 of my fans cost as much as a waterblock.

Want a pic of that rig big boy. Lets start a MM club ;)

[septim]

conspiracy theory, its really everywhere. not only with yate loons from china.
but also on other branded, and rebranded products that come out from china.

[virtualrain]

i agree. I bought the Silverstone, Papst, and Golfballs all when Vapor's review first came out. Papst and Golfballs seemed to push the same amount of air, but I noticed that the golfballs were quieter and temps were lower than the Papst and Silverstones.

However, with that said, I couldn't continue buying 10 fans for 15$ a piece just for one build. That's just ridiculous. I ended up trying Yates. They're quieter than any of the fans above and perform reasonably. With their low price, the own the price/performance market.

If you're Mr. Moneybags, I'd recommend stuff like Golfballs and if none can be found, empapst fans. However, even with my liberal budget for toys, I couldn't sleep knowing that 3 of my fans cost as much as a waterblock.

Great post Ranker... thanks... this one should be sticked somewhere! :)

BTW, I use the 140mm version (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=316&products_id=20771) ($7 unsleeved or $10 sleeved) and I couldn't be happier with noise and performance. Now if only Thermochill would make a 140 series of rads! :D

[IanY]

I don't know what sort of graph reading you guys do, but this is illustrative of the silly herd mentality on here. One guy goes Golfballs. The other guy goes yeah.. then come the echos. Yeah Golfballs. At 50 cfm to 60 cfm, where the fans output at 12V, does the graph below show that the Golfballs are superior ? Yate Loons.. yeah.. Yate Loons... Everyone.. Yate Loons... THE SKY IS FALLING! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!

[IanY]

At the end of the day, my point is - and you guys admitted - that Yate Loons are not the best performing fans.

You guys sure seem to have a big budget for silly LEDs, neons, sleeving, windows, tube reservoirs, fancy colorful antifreeze, case modding tools, etc etc.... none of which contribute an iota to the performance of the machine.

[Cathar]

At 50-60cfm through the radiator, all fans on that graph are damn noisy. Period.

Down at 30cfm or so, the two fans that are ahead of the Yate-Loons only exceed it, noise-for-air, by ~2dBA. I'd be reasonably certain that out of 10 Yate Loons, you'd likely find 5 of them were quieter than the one tested by 2dBA. BTW, 1dBA is defined as the minimal audible difference between any two noise levels, so a 2dBA difference is not exactly shaking the walls.

It all comes down to what's acceptable noise wise. When I designed the PA120 radiators, I pretty much factored on 25-40cfm actual air-flow through the radiator (per 120x120mm unit area). After testing many fans, Papst's included, I came to the conclusion that pushing more than 40cfm through a radiator would make the radiator fan the noisiest component in a system.

I just don't understand where this pathological hatred for Yate Loons is derived from? Or is it a pathological hatred for the "herd mentality"? Given what the "herd" is recommending, that being one of the cheapest and quietest fans on the market suitable for radiators, it's not exactly like the "herd" is recommending people to blow vast sums of money on total junk.

If you were a watercooling novice, you could do a heck of a lot worse than a Yate-Loon, and blow a heck of a lot more money on junk that fails to match up with advertised specs. This "herd" is actually putting forward a very decent "favorite" fan for novices to try out that is very cheap, readily available, and does the job.

Even if every n00b goes out and buys a Yate-Loon before doing their full research, they've "wasted", what? $5 on a fan that does a very decent job?

So, in recent times knowledge has come about there's a couple of fans that marginally do better. Great!

Seriously, I don't understand what the fuss is about. Or is that the problem here? People not willing to accept that some fan that is cheap, quiet, and close-to-the-best gets recommended by the majority because they don't understand that this is exactly what the majority wants?

[C'DaleRider]

Cathar,

A glass of Coca Cola should taste the same all around the world, at all times, in all locations.


The problem with that analogy is not all Coke tastes the same worldwide. Why? It's not the base product.....that indeed is the same. It's the water used and the sugar selected to sweeten the product.

When the U.S. Coke changed to high fructose corn syrup from refined sugar as its sweetening agent, the taste changed.....and quite a bit.

But, Coke made in Mexico still uses refined sugar for sweetening instead of corn syrup. Taste difference? Very much! The Coke from Mexico still has a much cleaner taste and that old "bite" the U.S. Coca-Cola used to have and lost when sweeteners changed.

Coke in Germany tastes different than the two previously mentioned varieties. Coke from Saudi Arabia tastes different than those three.

Local choices in how to produce the product.....ingredient choices.....does indeed impact how the product tastes. I've tried all four and more from other parts of the world.....each is at least subtly different.

And this of course explains why there are variations is fans and sound. Stamping machines wear.....the dies and tooling change subtly and cause variations in bearings and races. The windings of the coils can vary in tightness.

And this does not even include the variability in sourced metals and plastics. No matter how closely the manufacturer tries to control the output of a particular metal or plastic, there will be variation. A couple of degrees difference in temp. of the tempering furnace, a small change in the speed of the furnace's belt speed, a minor fluctuation in teh oxygen being delivered during tempering, a change in the carbon....so small almost imperceptible, a small percentage change in the mix of the ingredients for the steel....and the list goes on.

There is no practical way to reproduce an item exactly the same way each and every time which is why in manufacturing things like bearings there are manufacturing tolerances. The sleeve bearing may have a spec .0012", but it will have a tolerance of +/- .0003". Not unheard of and those tolerances are what create the differences in fans or whatever product you happen to be talking about.

Perfection in manufacturing does not exist....even Papst fans vary in sound and quality. Cannot avoid it......machines wear and they're made by humans....

To expect anything else is just dreaming, unfortunately.

[Fairydust]

I haven't seen a perfect fan review yet.

Some measure volume flow, but mostly only in free flow scenarios which is fine for choosing a case fan, but not so helpful when picking a fan for a radiator or cpu sink. I'd much prefer a volume/pressure curve that are standard in today's pump reviews.

Most noise evaluations are done via either sound pressure level values or subjective impressions of the reviewer. Sound pressure levels, even adjusted ones like dB(a), often don't match the perception of the individual. Not everyones ear is the same and even 2 people with equal hearing level can judge the same signal very differently regarding disturbance factor. I guess quality recordings are a good way to judge by yourself, at least if you can produce a quality playback.

Anyway, my advise is to test the fan before you buy lots of them.

[HiJon89]

I ordered Yates from Jab-Tech for my build in progress. 5 of them were open corners, one had closed corners. All of them came in those individual white boxes :shrug:

[IanY]

What can I say, I just disagree. So, we'll just leave it at that.

[septim]

anybody have a Coka collection?

[Vapor]

While this may seem ironic that I'll spend ~$400 on fans for testing, I probably wouldn't spend more than $100 on fans in a build.

And if I had my druthers for a quiet/ultra-quiet system, I'd go with Nexus fans. They're the only fans, IMO...that with ~6 of them at 7V in a case, will still be nearly inaudible, even from close-up.

If completely minimizing noise was not my focus, and I needed >45CFM of air, Sharkoons or ebmpapsts would be my choice. If I needed >75CFM of air, San Aces would be my choice.

But say if I needed more than a few (to push me over budget)....I'd probably get the expensive ones for my radiator fans, then the case fans as Yate Loons. If I needed even more than that, all Yate Loons. I couldn't get much more than 77CFM per fan (where my two SH's top out), but the noise of 10 SH's would be completely intolerable anyway.

IanY...fwiw, Coke says they have slightly different formulas for each country based on population flavor preference :p: (though that may be for Diet Coke/Coke Light now that I think about it)

[HiJon89]

I don't know what sort of graph reading you guys do, but this is illustrative of the silly herd mentality on here. One guy goes Golfballs. The other guy goes yeah.. then come the echos. Yeah Golfballs. At 50 cfm to 60 cfm, where the fans output at 12V, does the graph below show that the Golfballs are superior ? Yate Loons.. yeah.. Yate Loons... Everyone.. Yate Loons... THE SKY IS FALLING! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!
Objective dB readings don't always tell the truth when it comes to fans. A lot of the time you need someone to listen and give a subjective description of the noise to make an accurate comparison. Ex: One fan could make a very low grumble while another could make a high-pitched squeal.

[Cathar]

Being a resident of Australia where our coke uses actual sugar, and then travelling to the USA twice a year for work, I can tell you that Coke tastes different between the two countries. It may just be what I'm used to, but Coke here tastes crisper, cleaner, and has more bite. The high-fructose corn syrup used in the USA blend "muddies" the flavour, for lack of a better word to describe it.

[DarthBeavis]

At the end of the day, my point is - and you guys admitted - that Yate Loons are not the best performing fans.

You guys sure seem to have a big budget for silly LEDs, neons, sleeving, windows, tube reservoirs, fancy colorful antifreeze, case modding tools, etc etc.... none of which contribute an iota to the performance of the machine.

I guess you did not get the memo. Building and modding computers is not just about performance. Some people have the performance only mentality like you, others have an aesthetics only mentality and build beautiful rigs that probably won't be getting uber high clocks. I have more respect for those who do both at the same time. Check out my Hellmouth build. Granted many people hate the appearance but no one can say it is plain. Now look under the hood. The thing kicks some serious arse. The stock vapochill is away being modded for quad core loving and uber Ssilencer pimpage (if you do not know who he is then it is because you are not l33t enough ;) . . .go to the phase change forum here ).

But please don't talk smack about modders bud. Hell I bet ur rig is pimpy to the nth degree.


http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_rotm_april07.html

[IanY]

I guess you did not get the memo. Building and modding computers is not just about performance. Some people have the performance only mentality like you, others have an aesthetics only mentality and build beautiful rigs that probably won't be getting uber high clocks. I have more respect for those who do both at the same time. Check out my Hellmouth build. Granted many people hate the appearance but no one can say it is plain. Now look under the hood. The thing kicks some serious arse. The stock vapochill is away being modded for quad core loving and uber Ssilencer pimpage (if you do not know who he is then it is because you are not l33t enough ;) . . .go to the phase change forum here ).

But please don't talk smack about modders bud. Hell I bet ur rig is pimpy to the nth degree.


http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_rotm_april07.html


Well, congratulations to you for your machine. Glad you won that contest, but sorry its not my thing.

I am not I33t, nor do I ever aspire to be. If I am debating and talking back to the Godfather of watercooling, do you think I am enthralled by whoever else that is some phase change guru ?

Honestly, to be polite, I won't speak my mind, but I could give a... you know the rest.

I wasn't talking smack about modders, just that these people talk about not wanting to spend money because they are on a budget, but yet don't mind the cost of all these extra... bling.

No, you are wrong about my computers being pimpy. They are all uniformly plain black. You will not find a single LED on any of my computers except for the Power LED on the front of the case and the HDD LED, both of which are sometimes kept unplugged because blinking LEDs irritate me. My computers may have an occasional red Sata data cable, but that's only because they come free with the mobo and I haven't bought a black or grey one. My tubes have no color... actually they are now black. My fans are black. My cases have no windows and have no extraneous stickers annoucing what's inside.

I am the true Grinch !

[HiJon89]

At the end of the day, my point is - and you guys admitted - that Yate Loons are not the best performing fans.

You guys sure seem to have a big budget for silly LEDs, neons, sleeving, windows, tube reservoirs, fancy colorful antifreeze, case modding tools, etc etc.... none of which contribute an iota to the performance of the machine.
I'll also admit that the E6600 isn't the best-performing CPU, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shell out $1100 for a QX6800 :rolleyes: It's about price/performance. Are there fans that perform better than Yates? Yes. Do they perform that much better to pay 5x as much for them? Not in my opinion.

[demonbane23]

What can I say, I just disagree. So, we'll just leave it at that.

What fans do you use in your rigs?

[IanY]

I'll also admit that the E6600 isn't the best-performing CPU, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shell out $1100 for a QX6800 :rolleyes: It's about price/performance. Are there fans that perform better than Yates? Yes. Do they perform that much better to pay 5x as much for them? Not in my opinion.

Oh.. I am definitely not arguing the value proposition, because Yate Loons do indeed provide the best value. No one can have the "best" because there isn't such a thing.. for example, a QX6800 would take a backseat to two X5365s, which would take a backseat to X7xxx. You get my point.

What I absolutely cannot stand is this mentality:

"OMG Yate Loons wit close ends from Petra FTW !!!"

Someone in another thread outright told me that Yate Loons are the very best fans in the industry. I choked on my morning coffee as I cursed to myself.

[IanY]

What fans do you use in your rigs?

Does it even matter?

Yes, I have a couple of Yate Loons in my kid's rig. My wife's rig uses a combination of Scythe and LianLi/ADDA

What I use is not germane to this conversation.

[demonbane23]

Does it even matter?

Yes, I have a couple of Yate Loons in my kid's rig. My wife's rig uses a combination of Scythe and LianLi/ADDA

What I use is not germane to this conversation.

Not being rude just making conversation. It seemed from your posting you had extensive experiance with fans and I know you run something like 6 or so computers at home so I was curious what you use.

Didnt know it was top secret info and I wasnt looking to critique your choices I was simply curious as to someone who seems so knowledgeable on the subject decides to use in their own rig.

Personally I only have experiance with a few Thermaltake fans, deltas, loons and one or two other off brands I have had. Just always looking for more info thats all.

[IanY]

IanY...fwiw, Coke says they have slightly different formulas for each country based on population flavor preference :p: (though that may be for Diet Coke/Coke Light now that I think about it)

Vapor,

I was merely illustrating a point, not exactly expounding on the intricacies of the formula behind Coca Cola in locations worldwide. Somehow, my point was lost in the middle of the mumbo jumbo, as it is often.

My point again is that a quality product gives the end user a uniform experience. I didn't say a product has to be the very best in the industry, just that it delivers uniform consistency. That is an indication of quality.

I was about to further illustrate with my favourite Spanish speaking restaurant "Por favor numero uno y coque de dieta" but then again I will be slayed because the "papatas fritas con salsa de tomate" may be different in Melbourne or London :D

[IanY]

Not being rude just making conversation. It seemed from your posting you had extensive experiance with fans and I know you run something like 6 or so computers at home so I was curious what you use.

Didnt know it was top secret info and I wasnt looking to critique your choices I was simply curious as to someone who seems so knowledgeable on the subject decides to use in their own rig.

Personally I only have experiance with a few Thermaltake fans, deltas, loons and one or two other off brands I have had. Just always looking for more info thats all.


I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to be so mean. The pursuing conversation got me a little worked up and so I apologize.

I use a collection of fans from EBM Papst, a German manufacturer and a supplier to the commercial and industrial sector. The model I have been using is the 4412 FGML, although I have been informed of a better solution and I am trying out alternatives.

[demonbane23]

I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to be so mean. The pursuing conversation got me a little worked up and so I apologize.

I use a collection of fans from EBM Papst, a German manufacturer and a supplier to the commercial and industrial sector. The model I have been using is the 4412 FGML, although I have been informed of a better solution and I am trying out alternatives.

Its no problem I had read through the whole thread "arguement" and really its a matter of personal opinion for most people posting here informed or ill-informed I was really more interested in what you used. But I see how you could see it as someone trying to bait you into an arguement about your fans lol I just didnt think of it that way when I was asking.

Thanks for the info im always looking for something different to try out or atleast research ... :)

[Vapor]

Vapor,

I was merely illustrating a point, not exactly expounding on the intricacies of the formula behind Coca Cola in locations worldwide. Somehow, my point was lost in the middle of the mumbo jumbo, as it is often.

My point again is that a quality product gives the end user a uniform experience. I didn't say a product has to be the very best in the industry, just that it delivers uniform consistency. That is an indication of quality.

I was about to further illustrate with my favourite Spanish speaking restaurant "Por favor numero uno y coque de dieta" but then again I will be slayed because the "papatas fritas con salsa de tomate" may be different in Melbourne or London :DOh I know :p:

I just learned that Coke tidbit a few days ago....thought it was an interesting tidbit to share :D

I also agree about the YL quality issue....at this point, there are questions about some of the YL fans actually being Yate Loons and there's the known issue of likely getting a 'bad' one if you buy multiple at the same time.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "stay away from this fan" but only because it's the least expensive fan we can buy (and a fan is a fan....this one happens to be a decent fan, not top-end, but certainly better than some of the other riffraff out there).

And yeah, I often have situations where using Spanish would get things done a lot faster....but I'm not giving up on English yet!

[Jedda]

Hmm, no bling eh?
I suspect not uniformly black like Henry's model T. Rather more uniformly black like a black Gemballa Porsche or in your case (lol) Mercedes.
A styling statement never the less, I imagine.

[ranker]

Vapor,

I was merely illustrating a point, not exactly expounding on the intricacies of the formula behind Coca Cola in locations worldwide. Somehow, my point was lost in the middle of the mumbo jumbo, as it is often.

My point again is that a quality product gives the end user a uniform experience. I didn't say a product has to be the very best in the industry, just that it delivers uniform consistency. That is an indication of quality.

I was about to further illustrate with my favourite Spanish speaking restaurant "Por favor numero uno y coque de dieta" but then again I will be slayed because the "papatas fritas con salsa de tomate" may be different in Melbourne or London :D

Don't get me started about the McD's French Fries in Europe....


Oh I know :p:

I just learned that Coke tidbit a few days ago....thought it was an interesting tidbit to share :D


The Coke tidbit is definitely true. Having traveled across most of Asia, all of western Europe, and most of Eastern Europe, I can say that Coke tastes different from region to region. One thing I can not stand about Coke and other soft drinks from Europe in general is that it contains less carbonation than those from the US. I can deal with the sugar differences, but I like that rough, slightly burning sensation in the back of my throat when I chug down a Coke.

Anyhow Iany, I don't understand how liking the Sharkoon's is being part of the herd mentality. I tried the others and Sharkoon's performed the best in the CFM/db range I usually have my fans at. Even then, I stopped purchasing those fans simply because it felt disturbing to spend the same amount of money on 3 fans as I would on a CPU block, or even 2 fans for a chipset block.

It's no knock against empapsts. I regard them as the 2nd best of the medium CFM fans since I never run my fans at high speed (where the empapsts apparently start to shine according to Vapor's graphs).

[ranker]

Hmm, no bling eh?
I suspect not uniformly black like Henry's model T. Rather more uniformly black like a black Gemballa Porsche or in your case (lol) Mercedes.
A styling statement never the less, I imagine.

Bling on a car makes much more sense than in a computer. At least one can get laid if one drives a ":banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: Magnet" (as Borat puts it :D ). My woman always looks at my computer and says outloud..."why oh why am I with a man that does that?"

[Friedchicken]

And also, you tell me a way to silence 4 raptors. Then i'll think about that extra 3-5dB.


Petras gel stuff or O-rings long enough to suspend/hold your HDD.

[Jedda]

No no! It's a known fact Thermochill owners get laid more.
I read it on a WC forum. Got the link to prove it.
:rofl:

[IanY]

Anyhow Iany, I don't understand how liking the Sharkoon's is being part of the herd mentality. I tried the others and Sharkoon's performed the best in the CFM/db range I usually have my fans at. Even then, I stopped purchasing those fans simply because it felt disturbing to spend the same amount of money on 3 fans as I would on a CPU block, or even 2 fans for a chipset block.

It's no knock against empapsts. I regard them as the 2nd best of the medium CFM fans since I never run my fans at high speed (where the empapsts apparently start to shine according to Vapor's graphs).


ranker,

I didn't say that Sharkoons is part of the herd mentality. You like Sharkoons, so ok, that's good. Someone hears the name Sharkoon.. so they concur, even though they have no idea what they are agreeing about. I personally have never used or seen a Sharkoon, although I am a golf enthusiast.

I didn't say that EMB Papsts are the best fans !!! Where have I said that? I am not arguing for anyone to use Papsts, even though I do like the company's reputation and its commercial/industrial focus. More than that, I like its US management.

Anyway, the specific purpose for posting is to dispell the notion that Yate Loons are the best. That is all. I didn't say that anything is necessarily the best.

I did point out to the 50 cfm to 55 cfm area. The Papsts beng tested put out in the 60s, so I gather that about 50 cfm or so goes through the radiator. I hope you don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

You and I obviously have different setups and different preferences. I'm not sure anyone else is inclined to running the number of fans I run or intend to run. You and I have different levels of aversion to fan noise, obviously.

Anyway, back to your question, and that of Cathar's: the thing where I have the biggest aversion is the herd mentality. That unfortunately involves several manufacturers and a particular retailer.

I know I am often accused of fanboyism myself, but that is based on my preferences and I am assiduously in favour of using what I believe is best for myself, not what some expert, whatever that particular individual's industry or social standing is, thinks is best for me.

That's all I have to say about that :)

[Friedchicken]

Now if only Thermochill would make a 140 series of rads! :D

Use the PA120.x series with a custom shroud. There would not be any improvement to increase the rad size, just to hook up a 140mm fan instead of a 120mm.

[Friedchicken]

I just don't understand where this pathological hatred for Yate Loons is derived from? Or is it a pathological hatred for the "herd mentality"? Given what the "herd" is recommending, that being one of the cheapest and quietest fans on the market suitable for radiators, it's not exactly like the "herd" is recommending people to blow vast sums of money on total junk.

Seriously, I don't understand what the fuss is about. Or is that the problem here? People not willing to accept that some fan that is cheap, quiet, and close-to-the-best gets recommended by the majority because they don't understand that this is exactly what the majority wants?


The issue here is about differing points of view. The same question can be answered different ways.

IMO The yates are the perfect swiss army knife of fans. They have value, reliability, good CFM and DB levels.

However, there are other fans that outperform them in some or most of the key areas. That is why there is contention between posters. Someone asks "what is the best fan out there". Yates is-

-If you are putting them on a rad and want near-silent operation at 1/4 the price of comparable fan options.

For 95% of the watercooling market, they are the best (safest recommendation).

But for the other 5% of the WC market with more $$, more time to find these high end fans or a way to customize their air flow; papst, sharkloons, Nexus... can be made to outperform.

[IanY]

Friedchicken,

I wish I were as eloquent as you.

[NaeKuh]

Being a resident of Australia where our coke uses actual sugar, and then travelling to the USA twice a year for work, I can tell you that Coke tastes different between the two countries. It may just be what I'm used to, but Coke here tastes crisper, cleaner, and has more bite. The high-fructose corn syrup used in the USA blend "muddies" the flavour, for lack of a better word to describe it.

WOW this feels wierd. Cathar is talking about coke a cola... :ROTF:

I think im gonan sig this. This is the first time i heard him talk about something besides watercooling.


@Iany, if you can afford it, why not! Thats all i need to say.
If papsts are the fans for you, then go for it! I just said the reasons on why i like my yates. I cant silence my system. Its almost impossible. 4 Raptors + 1 RD-30 = IMPOSSIBLE to silence. :P

So i get the next best thing that pushes good amounts of air, and that wont SCREAM like panflo's. Yates. :D

[Jedda]

Of course the widespread endorsement here of one particular retailer may be because that retailer simply does provide better more personable service. In essence does try harder. In that case the endorsements would arise from considered individual judgment, as yours are claimed to be.
To ascribe the attitude of these satisfied customers as blind herd mentality with no more grounds than your own uninformed assumptions about their thought processes is to risk being treated as you treat others.
Perhaps deservedly so.

[DarthBeavis]

Well, congratulations to you for your machine. Glad you won that contest, but sorry its not my thing.

I am not I33t, nor do I ever aspire to be. If I am debating and talking back to the Godfather of watercooling, do you think I am enthralled by whoever else that is some phase change guru ?

Honestly, to be polite, I won't speak my mind, but I could give a... you know the rest.

I wasn't talking smack about modders, just that these people talk about not wanting to spend money because they are on a budget, but yet don't mind the cost of all these extra... bling.

No, you are wrong about my computers being pimpy. They are all uniformly plain black. You will not find a single LED on any of my computers except for the Power LED on the front of the case and the HDD LED, both of which are sometimes kept unplugged because blinking LEDs irritate me. My computers may have an occasional red Sata data cable, but that's only because they come free with the mobo and I haven't bought a black or grey one. My tubes have no color... actually they are now black. My fans are black. My cases have no windows and have no extraneous stickers annoucing what's inside.

I am the true Grinch !

YOu're a mean one . . .Mr Grinch :rofl: Well, you may be a plain Jane but I like ur sense of subdued humor. I hope u have some artistic expression somewhere else in your life. I don't have many outlets for such things so I do it with my builds (tho I outsource sometimes things that are beyond my skill set like the airbrushing . . .tho I am working on doing my own paint in my next build).

I agree with you on the point of people who complain about cost here but then think money is no object in other aspects of their build. Hell, I buy $25 SilenXs dude, but then I found the Yates to perform (at least to my eye and ear) just as well. I go to 500 person LAN parties so I get to see many builds with a variety of components. The Yates are pretty darned good and pretty darned quiet. If there are better LED fans out I am totally open to be educated because I am not the guru of modding and building. If you cannot learn something new you should probably give it up and move on to something else.

[IanY]

OOooo.. not that any other retailer ever provides personalized service then. And on what do you base the assertion that the one particular retailer "simply does provide better and more personable service" if you do not know of any others?

Oh.. I never claim to have any such "considerable individual judgment." Quite to the contrary, I am often self-effacing and I make sure that others use their own judgment to form their own opinions. Never have I shoved any of my opinions down anyone's throat.. I don't share in the "I am right, this is the best, and therefore you are wrong" mentality that is so prevalent here.

My attitude to to just agree to disagree and use whatever I eventually choose to use. You yourself are making unfounded assumptions about my behaviour, or lack thereof.

My attitude has always been.. go ahead and buy whatever the h3ll you want to buy. If you buy $hit, you deserve what comes to you. That's all.

[Friedchicken]

How is the quality of customer service relevant to the discussion of which fan source is better?

If the off-shoot topic of this thread is about the e-tailers themseves and their service (Read: who to buy from regardless of which fan they carry), that is left up to the experience of the vocal community.

My impression is that, if any of these e-tailers were to compromise on customer service, their fall from grace would be swift and absolute.

[Cathar]

WOW this feels wierd. Cathar is talking about coke a cola... :ROTF:

I think im gonan sig this. This is the first time i heard him talk about something besides watercooling.


LOL. Don't get me started on motorbikes then (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrqSGYCjJus). Who is that cheeky sod? :D

As for those who are still wondering about how I'm healing after my accident last year, my shoulder is now as good as new. After having it (scapula/shoulder joint) smashed into 10 pieces, 12 months on I'm doing push-ups, pull-ups, and able to lift as much weight and do as much with it as I ever was, and pain free. Look to my avatar picture which was taken 2 months ago.

I have a few alter-ego's in other areas too.

[virtualrain]

Great to hear Cathar! :toast:

Sorry for yet anther digression...


Use the PA120.x series with a custom shroud. There would not be any improvement to increase the rad size, just to hook up a 140mm fan instead of a 120mm.

Larger radiator surface area is always a good thing. A PA140.2 (if it existed) would have just a bit less surface area than a PA120.3... how is that not a good thing?

140mm fans FTW! :yepp:

[Cathar]

I perfectly understand the performance-at-any-cost perspective. I just don't understand why people have to fight over it. I don't see anyone attacking IanY for his choice, yet Ian's attacking others for recommending theirs.

Anyway, Vapor's review only came out 10 weeks ago. Ya gotta allow some time for the osmosis of attitude change to occur.

I'd certainly like to get a hold of some Golfball's and run them through some tests.

I'm a little cynical and jaded these days about fans. Have had people swear black and blue in favor of some pretty expensive ones (a good example being those Dustproof ones), but once I got a hold of them I was disappointed.

After blowing so much money on researching fans, the jaded individual in me says to just go with something that's cheap and close to the best. If you can be truly bothered to hunt down that last 2dBA at low-flow speeds (Yates at <10v are very quiet, and at <7v extremely quiet), then know and understand that you're buying an expensive fan that normally runs at much higher speeds just so you can run it at way below spec. I know that seems damn obvious, but there's plenty of people who'll buy a fan and expect it to be quiet at 12v, and you certainly don't want a PWM fan controller if you're at all concerned about noise.

[IanY]

I perfectly understand the performance-at-any-cost perspective. I just don't understand why people have to fight over it. I don't see anyone attacking IanY for his choice, yet Ian's attacking others for recommending theirs.


Since you are launching the accusations, I would state that its only fair that you go back and show me, specifically, the posts where I have attacked specific individuals, citing the very phrases. This is a very large thread. There are a lot of posts.

I am not going to take slanderous accusations and libelous insults sitting down, no matter who you may be.

[DarthBeavis]

Since you are launching the accusations, I would state that its only fair that you go back and show me, specifically, the posts where I have attacked specific individuals, citing the very phrases. This is a very large thread. There are a lot of posts.

I am not going to take slanderous accusations and libelous insults sitting down, no matter who you may be.

Oh no its a gang fight
http://www.mmjworld.de/galerie/michael/thriller/83_03_09_beat_it/images/83_03_09_beat_it_05.jpg

[Cathar]

There is way too much of a herd mentality in here. A change in the wind direction and the droves of cattle come stampeding (no offense to anyone).

Labelling forum members who recommend Yate-Loons as a "herd" and "cattle" is not insulting or offensive? Just 'cos you say "no offense to anyone" doesn't absolve the offensiveness of the statement.

If I were to stand in front a crowd and scream "You're all nothing but a stupid moronic sheep, but I mean no offense when I say this", I'd have to be pretty stupid myself if I didn't expect someone to take offense at this, even if I didn't direct it at anyone specifically, just the collection of people. That's a lame defense to think that insulting a group of people, rather than a specific individual, somehow lessens the offensiveness of the statement.

Me calling you out on your behavior is neither insulting nor offensive, just the truth. For libel to occur, the statements must be false.

[virtualrain]

Labelling forum members who recommend Yate-Loons as a "herd" and "cattle" is not insulting or offensive? Just 'cos you say "no offense to anyone" doesn't absolve the offensiveness of the statement.

If I were to stand in front a crowd and scream "You're all nothing but a stupid moronic sheep, but I mean no offense when I say this", I'd have to be pretty stupid myself if I didn't expect someone to take offense at this, even if I didn't direct it at anyone specifically, just the collection of people. That's a lame defense to think that insulting a group of people, rather than a specific individual, somehow lessens the offensiveness of the statement.

Me calling you out on your behavior is neither insulting nor offensive, just the truth. For libel to occur, the statements must be false.

I couldn't agree more. I personally find your style very insulting and confrontational IanY.... not just in this thread but others as well.

[coolmiester]

Wow what a time to jump in but...........

Personally i think most manufactures put out a lot of numbers that don't actually mean a lot to the layman like myself but tend to add to the confusion of which make / model to buy for their specific needs.

I think most people can eradicate the life span numbers as in this day and age we all have a few spare 120mm fans we could use in an emergency and from my personal experience i've not actually had one die totally................well not without a cry for help.

There is always going to be the out and out enthusiast that want the holy grail of fan which again in my experience depends more upon other components and to find a perfect fan on a given radiator with ultimate cooling is none existent due to the infinite permutations of other components not least where the actual PC is located / case used / how the rad & fan is mounted / etc etc.

Over the last few years i've been lucky enough to try a lot of fans in different rad / fan scenarios and to date i still can't narrow it down to one particular brand that stand out above another but having said that the Yate Loon is by far the best £ for £ imo in its standard guise and is presently my fan of choice especially when adding paint that may or may not work in the long term but thats not what i'm currently looking for tbh

I go for xtreme bling over xtreme cooling as you may of gathered :D

http://www.coolercasesuk.co.uk/rossi_replica/Stack_95.jpg

[Cathar]

Mmmm, 50th anniversary Yamaha livery colours. Nice.

Is that an R1 fairing as the back-drop? It doesn't quite look like one.

[Sparky]

OK I think we all need to calm down here, accusations starting to fly, not a good thing.

Sit down, take a deep breath... In, now out.... feel better? Good :D

Now, if I've got it all straight, this is how things are:

Yates are cheap, and perform well.
There are other fans that perform better, however at a higher cost.
Therefore, some people (like me :D) prefer to save a few bucks and get some Yates. Other people prefer to get the best fan available for their particular application.
Either choice is fine, whatever the person decides he wants is A-OK - just don't get crap like most Tt fans or way overpriced silenx that don't deliver unless you want laughed at a little ;) hehe.

From what I've seen most here can agree on this.

Everyone feeling OK now? :)

[nealh]

Ranker and Vapor....

I bought the Silverstone RL-FN121 9-Bladed Silent Fan based on the review...which was awesome

Ranker..not happy to hear you feel the YL are quiter that sucks

[coolmiester]

Mmmm, 50th anniversary Yamaha livery colours. Nice.

Is that an R1 fairing as the back-drop? It doesn't quite look like one.

Don't be daft Stew - its a 50th Anniversary Stacker (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2211771&postcount=56) ;)

[SiGfever]

@Cathar,

I am glad to hear that you have healed well. I know that you must be very happy to be able to pursue your love of motorbikes. I hope that the family is doing well also. Your young ones must be growing right before your eyes. They grow so fast and the time slips by like a thief in the night, take as much video and pictures as your busy schedule allows because one day when you get older those memories will be your most valuable possessions. :toast:

[Cathar]

Don't be daft Stew - its a 50th Anniversary Stacker (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2211771&postcount=56) ;)

Hadn't seen it before. Nice job! Had just wondered as there are 50th Anniversary R1's dressed up like Rossi's M1 (am sure you know this). Then again, if I owned a 50th Ann R1 I guess I'd be less inclined to copy its style into a computer case as opposed to just riding the thing. :cool:

SigFever, often break out the Casio EX-S600 digicam into movie mode to capture the kiddies activities and play time. It does a fantastic job as a solid-state video camcorder, and it's just so small and handy that I can take it everywhere. Even now I find myself watching the videos when they're asleep.

I admit it. I'm selfish. I don't want my kids to grow up. It sometimes makes me sad to think that one day they won't be around in the house, so I do my best to enjoy every moment with them that I can. Since I work from home, I am blessed to see more of my children than most fathers ever dream of. Of course, I still need my occasional "me time" on the bike for a few hrs/week. The time per week that most people spend commuting, I'm able to bunch it all together and use that time for enjoying the bike instead one day/fortnight.

Anyway, that's enough off-topic chatter.

[IanY]

I couldn't agree more. I personally find your style very insulting and confrontational IanY.... not just in this thread but others as well.

You are free to launch any complaint at any time to the moderators in here. I invite you to speak freely and express your opinions about me or otherwise. This is a free and open discussion of ideas and opinions.'

As far as the way I conduct myself, its my perrogative and certainly within the rules of this forum, unless they are re-written.

[Vapor]

Ranker and Vapor....

I bought the Silverstone RL-FN121 9-Bladed Silent Fan based on the review...which was awesome

Ranker..not happy to hear you feel the YL are quiter that sucksBased on what you've said...I can't tell if you have yours yet?

Anyway, my FN121 was undoubtedly the quiet champion in the first round...and I'm pretty darn sure my Yate is about as good as they get (esp based on the recent few I've gotten in)....this round the Nexus looks like it'll take that crown though. (and we all know that's a cherry-picked, respun Yate)

[nealh]

Based on what you've said...I can't tell if you have yours yet?

Anyway, my FN121 was undoubtedly the quiet champion in the first round...and I'm pretty darn sure my Yate is about as good as they get (esp based on the recent few I've gotten in)....this round the Nexus looks like it'll take that crown though. (and we all know that's a cherry-picked, respun Yate)

I ordered 8 of Silverstone from Case-Mod..$7/each...to try out
I wont receive them till Mon(they were OOS and had them dropped shipped UPS 2nd day air...I had ordered USPS priority hoping for delivery tomorrow)

I know Nexus are quietest ..I have one..very nice but moves too little air and cost a premium

BTW..Vapor your review and efforts are greatly appreciated...top notch work

Cathar:...I am so glad to hear you are doing well....

[ranker]

Ranker and Vapor....

I bought the Silverstone RL-FN121 9-Bladed Silent Fan based on the review...which was awesome

Ranker..not happy to hear you feel the YL are quiter that sucks

In all honesty, I couldn't tell the audible difference between those two. The only factor that made the decision to me on the low CFM level was cost as both made about the same amount of noise at 7v and at 12v.

By no means am I the review expert with lab equipment, but I was unable to discern any difference in noise between the two. As we went up in CFM, I could tell the difference between Sharkoon's, embpapsts, thermaltake thunderblades, and Enermax aluminum fans. The Sharkoon's were a tad quieter than my embpapsts at 7V and relatively the same at 12v. Both were miles and away quieter than the Alu fans and TT thunderblades.

[nealh]

In all honesty, I couldn't tell the audible difference between those two. The only factor that made the decision to me on the low CFM level was cost as both made about the same amount of noise at 7v and at 12v.

By no means am I the review expert with lab equipment, but I was unable to discern any difference in noise between the two. As we went up in CFM, I could tell the difference between Sharkoon's, embpapsts, thermaltake thunderblades, and Enermax aluminum fans. The Sharkoon's were a tad quieter than my embpapsts at 7V and relatively the same at 12v. Both were miles and away quieter than the Alu fans and TT thunderblades.

Thanks for the follow-up
I wish as I said before there was a way to test before purchase....I hate getting loud fans

Panaflow 120x38 M1A..was a bit expensive but at 12v it is miserable for me..7v it has a whine and bad noise....and I cant sell the damn thing

[ranker]

Thanks for the follow-up
I wish as I said before there was a way to test before purchase....I hate getting loud fans

Panaflow 120x38 M1A..was a bit expensive but at 12v it is miserable for me..7v it has a whine and bad noise....and I cant sell the damn thing

After Vapor's recent update, I've been waiting for the Denki's to come back in stock. I'd like to own a set of high CFM fans just for :banana::banana::banana::banana:s and giggles and see how it affects performance. With Vapor's results putting the sound level of the Denki's on par with the Golfballs, but with more oomph, it's perked my interest.

[Cathar]

High CFM fans eh? Got a Delta TFB 12cm fan here. 230cfm. Turn these suckers on and stand well back for fear of being sucked in. If there was ever a 12cm fan that demanded it be sold with a wire safety guard fitted as standard, it's one of these. There was some tissue paper sitting about 30cm away. Turned the fan on and in a few seconds the room was filled with confetti.

[hoax]

There was some tissue paper sitting about 30cm away. Turned the fan on and in a few seconds the room was filled with confetti.

:ROTF:

[ranker]

High CFM fans eh? Got a Delta TFB 12cm fan here. 230cfm. Turn these suckers on and stand well back for fear of being sucked in. If there was ever a 12cm fan that demanded it be sold with a wire safety guard fitted as standard, it's one of these. There was some tissue paper sitting about 30cm away. Turned the fan on and in a few seconds the room was filled with confetti.

I owned a Delta once, for an old Athlon build. I was in college at the time and my neighbors would consistently complain that they could hear my sole Delta on my CPU from two rooms down.

If I wasn't the guy supplying the alcohol to the floor, I'd have probably been written up multiple times and thrown out of the dorms as I refused to sacrifice my OC. Of course, I have to wonder if those things caused any permanent hearing loss...

[kamongear]

Labelling forum members who recommend Yate-Loons as a "herd" and "cattle" is not insulting or offensive? Just 'cos you say "no offense to anyone" doesn't absolve the offensiveness of the statement.

If I were to stand in front a crowd and scream "You're all nothing but a stupid moronic sheep, but I mean no offense when I say this", I'd have to be pretty stupid myself if I didn't expect someone to take offense at this, even if I didn't direct it at anyone specifically, just the collection of people. That's a lame defense to think that insulting a group of people, rather than a specific individual, somehow lessens the offensiveness of the statement.

Me calling you out on your behavior is neither insulting nor offensive, just the truth. For libel to occur, the statements must be false.

I don't think he was referring just to forum members who recommend Yate-Loons when he stated that but rather as the WC section as a whole.

Which to some extent is true.

[Cathar]

Yes. It was the old Delta screamers that started me down the water-cooling route some 6 years back when the whine would interfere with family life.

Permanent low-grade hearing loss from the noise of those fans is a reality.

Could be worse. Could've had a Delta PFB0812DHE fan. That's their most powerful 80mm fan. 33W. 9000RPM(!) 133CFM (from an 80mm fan!!). 52mm H2O air-pressure(!). Around 4x as loud as those old Delta screamers that we used to know and love for old-school overclocking.

[[XC] leviathan18]

sanyo denki san ace are the best fans around :p:

[Vapor]

I know Nexus are quietest ..I have one..very nice but moves too little air and cost a premiumFWIW, I was very, very surprised at the CFM my Nexus is pulling. I was expecting rated CFM and dBA, got neither...but damn does it do better than I thought it would.


After Vapor's recent update, I've been waiting for the Denki's to come back in stock. I'd like to own a set of high CFM fans just for :banana::banana::banana::banana:s and giggles and see how it affects performance. With Vapor's results putting the sound level of the Denki's on par with the Golfballs, but with more oomph, it's perked my interest.I just completed the official testing on the San Aces...and things aren't as rosy. They're still the champion of the high-speeds (so far at least...though I see no competition on the horizon), but they're strength is in undervolting (not so much at 12V), and if I were to use them, it wouldn't be on a radiator...their CFM loss was much too high for high-speed 120x120x38mm fan, IMO. I'll see if I can get a direct graph of San Ace vs. U1A in open air and on a radiator up tomorrow, about to hit the sack right now.


High CFM fans eh? Got a Delta TFB 12cm fan here. 230cfm. Turn these suckers on and stand well back for fear of being sucked in. If there was ever a 12cm fan that demanded it be sold with a wire safety guard fitted as standard, it's one of these. There was some tissue paper sitting about 30cm away. Turned the fan on and in a few seconds the room was filled with confetti.I've gotta try that :p: I love those fans....great for benching and just a blast to use if you prep yourself for the noise.


leviathan18;2241280']sanyo denki san ace are the best fans around :p::eek:


EDIT: just saw the SilverStone FN122 and the FM123 were released....gonna pick them up :D

[NaeKuh]

Wow what a time to jump in but...........

Personally i think most manufactures put out a lot of numbers that don't actually mean a lot to the layman like myself but tend to add to the confusion of which make / model to buy for their specific needs.

I think most people can eradicate the life span numbers as in this day and age we all have a few spare 120mm fans we could use in an emergency and from my personal experience i've not actually had one die totally................well not without a cry for help.

There is always going to be the out and out enthusiast that want the holy grail of fan which again in my experience depends more upon other components and to find a perfect fan on a given radiator with ultimate cooling is none existent due to the infinite permutations of other components not least where the actual PC is located / case used / how the rad & fan is mounted / etc etc.

Over the last few years i've been lucky enough to try a lot of fans in different rad / fan scenarios and to date i still can't narrow it down to one particular brand that stand out above another but having said that the Yate Loon is by far the best &#163; for &#163; imo in its standard guise and is presently my fan of choice especially when adding paint that may or may not work in the long term but thats not what i'm currently looking for tbh

I go for xtreme bling over xtreme cooling as you may of gathered :D



Everytime i take a look at your stacker. I keep wishing my stacker was that pretty. *Sigh*

One more time... That is one seriously sick stacker.

@Cathar... ouch... i didnt know you got into one. Glad to hear your on your road to recovery tho.


Anyhow, can i say we difted WAYYYYYYYYYYYY off topic.....

Im still talking to john on emails. He says he has proof his yates are real. He got the invoice from his distributor after showing him this thread. And his distributor does indeed import from yate.

So i guess that gets rid of jab-tech's conspiracy entirely. I just think they both are real yates, but there just ment for different countries. Like what cathar says in my quote about coke!

[Jedda]

OOooo.. not that any other retailer ever provides personalized service then. And on what do you base the assertion that the one particular retailer "simply does provide better and more personable service" if you do not know of any others?

Oh.. I never claim to have any such "considerable individual judgment." Quite to the contrary, I am often self-effacing and I make sure that others use their own judgment to form their own opinions. Never have I shoved any of my opinions down anyone's throat.. I don't share in the "I am right, this is the best, and therefore you are wrong" mentality that is so prevalent here.

My attitude to to just agree to disagree and use whatever I eventually choose to use. You yourself are making unfounded assumptions about my behaviour, or lack thereof.

My attitude has always been.. go ahead and buy whatever the h3ll you want to buy. If you buy $hit, you deserve what comes to you. That's all.

I'm surprised to see you deny any "considered" personal judgements.:rofl:
Almost as surprised as I am by your assertion I've had no experience with any other retailers. I'm assuming that was what you meant to say, as it would be almost impossible to frequent this forum and not know of others.:rofl:
As to the remainder of your post it's probable that you really do believe that to be the truth.
How amusing.

[septim]

suffice to say here in xtreme systems, we let our alter egos do the typing...

[C'DaleRider]

What really surprises me is the constant comparisons between ball bearing based fans and sleeve bearing based fans.....and without acknowledging the obvious superiority in the ball bearing fans. To not mention this particular fact is just to hide the essential weakness of sleeve bearing fans.....and to slam sleeve bearing fans as being inherently inferior, as to quietness, durability or any other facet of their operation, is disingenuous.


So, why mention bearings at all or why should they matter in fan comparisons? Because the type or style of bearings is in the end what determines the smoothness, quietness, durability, longevity of a fan.

How do I know a darned thing about bearings? Living with a shift supervisor for one of the largest bearing manufacturers in the U.S. has a little to do with it.....search Torrington bearings and then Timken Corp. bearings.....she's been there for over 17 years and has a LOT of expertise with bearings and their production. I also worked in this plant as a technician that finished the punches and dies for producing the outer bearing races.....that is until my MS finally made me unable to work there any longer.

My wife is the shift supervisor for one of Timken's plants.....specializes in sleeve and tapered roller/needle bearings. It is so high volume in its production that if you drive a domestic vehicle in the U.S. or one of the many imports assembled in the U.S. (Honda, Toyota, Nissan are their big 3 imports they sell to), or a vacuum cleaner assembled in North America, or most air compressors sold in the U.S. ..... esp. Ingersoll-Rand ...... or a whole host of machines and such that use a tapered roller bearing or sleeve bearing used somewhere in it, this plant has one of its bearings somewhere in there.

But you have to realize how sleeve bearings and roller bearings operate and differ as to why you may see such variability in sleeve bearing fans vs. ball or roller bearing fans.

Sleeve bearings are nothing more than a hollow tube of steel......typically the used metal. The tube is fixed in place when assembled in whatever it's used in and a shaft passes through it.....and the shaft is "fxed" at both ends....but the shaft turns inside the sleeve. The shaft is suspended by its fixing points at both ends and by oil within the sleeve. So, if there is any variability in the sleeve's surface (ID) or in the shaft that passes through it (the shaft's OD), there will be a decrease or increase in noise, movement of the shaft within the sleeve or a whole host of other symptoms one can either hear or feel.

Roller or ball bearings, on the other hand, typically have an outer race that the bearings are encased within and can have an inner race to travel on or use the shaft that passes through it to provide the inner race. In either case, you have balls or rollers that turn on the race or shaft.....and usually a bit faster than the shaft turns. But a typical roller or ball bearing should be smoother and longer lasting than a sleeve bearing (which has no moving bearing parts.....it is, again, just a metal tube that a shaft turns inside of.)

So, to be only fair, one should only compare ball or roller bearing fans to others of the same construction......and sleeve bearing fans to other sleeve bearing fans. To compare sleeve and ball bearings is difficult because of the huge difference in the way both operate and hence in the noise and such each produces.

The fact that Yate-Loon has managed to get sleeve bearings to be so quiet is outstanding. I'm sure they chose sleeve bearings because they're easier to use in assembly and much cheaper to source and hence, the end product is cheaper to sell. But, you're now comparing $4 fans to fans that can run upwards of $20 each.......

And like anything else in this world, ultimately the purchaser must weigh the cost/benefit ratio to him or herself. Is that $18 Sharkoon that vastly better than the $4 YL fan? If one can justify the cost difference, then it is. If one cannot, then the YL is the better choice in the cost-benefit ratio. Same with radiators......do the Thermochills provide 3X the performance than, say, Swiftech QP radiators? If their perceived performance to one does, in fact, give the purchaser the 3X benefit that their price dictates, then it is a wise purchase. If, on the other hand, the price premium cannot be balanced with the performance seen, then the less expensive but almost-as-good performing option becomes the one to take.

It all comes down to what one perceives as his or her benefit gained for money spent. To say one item is always better than another simply because of one aspect of performance is a rather narrow view of the world.....there will always be the benefit of the item weighed against what it costs.

Lots of people can afford Mercedes vehicles.....but not all of them drive one. Why? Probably because the Mercedes doesn't fit into their cost-benefit ratio they've established for themselves. Does that make them stupid, or sheep, or uninformed? No, it makes them persons who have put their value perspectives in a different priority than others. True, the MB may be sexier, more bling, more show-off-able than say a Toyota or Lexus or GM or such, but does it mean their choice is worse? No. It means they've chosen to put their disposable funds into other areas where it counts more to them. After all, Warren Buffett, one of the richest persons in the world (#2 I believe), choses to drive less costly vehicles.....he surely can afford anything but instead choses to drive "down".

But, I wander. Chose any darned fan you like......it'll probably do what you need...move air....about as well as any other fan out there. Some will be quieter, some longer lasting, some with bigger bragging rights. So, spend your money how you see fit and how it fits you and be happy.........and don't disparage others who see fit to choose differently and spend differently than you. I just cannot believe the rancor about fans in here......sheesh!

[Cathar]

C'DaleRider. See, there you go attacking the issue from a logical point of view. Your post is wholly well reasoned and correct.

You forget the "human factor" though. People love drama. Gently needling and irking others to get a response is exactly why people say what they do on forums. If we all just accepted everyone else's personal value-judgements then there'd be no forum conflict, and that makes for a less engaging place.

I'd bet good money that the motivation for needling statements is often that the individual is just bored with everything being so nice and friendly. Heck, I know I've done it in the past. When we make that post that we know is going to get a rise from someone else, we're excited about reading the response, and then the response is almost invariably what we're after, which is some conflict with our own personal value-judgement, and great! Now we're engaged in some drama! Not so bored now!

Threads like this have very little to do with logic, and far more to do with basic human nature. Your opinion is wholly correct and well balanced, but does nothing to address the needs of the individuals involved. Drama is the goal that was being sought, and drama is what we shall have.

[ranker]

C'DaleRider. See, there you go attacking the issue from a logical point of view. Your post is wholly well reasoned and correct.

You forget the "human factor" though. People love drama. Gently needling and irking others to get a response is exactly why people say what they do on forums. If we all just accepted everyone else's personal value-judgements then there'd be no forum conflict, and that makes for a less engaging place.

I'd bet good money that the motivation for needling statements is often that the individual is just bored with everything being so nice and friendly. Heck, I know I've done it in the past. When we make that post that we know is going to get a rise from someone else, we're excited about reading the response, and then the response is almost invariably what we're after, which is some conflict with our own personal value-judgement, and great! Now we're engaged in some drama! Not so bored now!

Threads like this have very little to do with logic, and far more to do with basic human nature. Your opinion is wholly correct and well balanced, but does nothing to address the needs of the individuals involved. Drama is the goal that was being sought, and drama is what we shall have.

TNT "We know drama!"

[AcuraDC5]

We purchase our fans directly from Yate Loon, Jab-Tech does not. From what I've been able to find so far, the fan housings of the 'yate loon' fans that J-T sells are not manufactured by Yate Loon and the distributer that J-T gets their fans from is, according to Yate Loon, not one of their customers. I'll be posting more on this later--it's kinda odd.

So has it been decided whether or not jab-tech's fans are authentic or not? Is it safe to buy yate loons from them?

[MotF Bane]

So has it been decided whether or not jab-tech's fans are authentic or not? Is it safe to buy yate loons from them?


I just got four D12SM-12's from them Saturday. Closed corners, quiet, tons of air movement... I think they had a number "705" on the sticker. Seems safe enough.

[AcuraDC5]

I just got four D12SM-12's from them Saturday. Closed corners, quiet, tons of air movement... I think they had a number "705" on the sticker. Seems safe enough.

What setup are you running?

[Methylphenidate]

http://www.ncixus.com/products/22645/D12BL-12/Yate%20Loon/
(http://www.ncixus.com/products/22645/D12BL-12/Yate%20Loon/)
Yate Loon ball bearing fans are much less expensive than $20...

[IanY]

So, at Jab Tech, I see sleeve bearing Yate Loons and ball bearing Yate Loons, with the ball bearing version a bit more expensive.. am I right?