View Full Version : Swiftech Stealth is FINALLY released, but does it join the battle too late?
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 12:23 AM
Yeah, as topic says the long waited Swiftech Stealth have now been officially released and published on Swiftechs website...
I'm glad to see, that it's also compatible with the 8800 GTS :)
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/stealth-1.jpg
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/stealth-sli-2.jpg
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/Stealth-sli-parallel.jpg
Internals:
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/stealth-housing.jpg
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/apogee/apogee-gt-bp.jpg
http://www.swiftech.com/products/stealth.asp
There is no doubt in my mind, that the Apogee GT/GTX base will give it superior performance, but I'm worried if it has joined the battle too late...
IMO the speed of the launch is curial for the success of a Full Cover block and those who wanted a FC block for their 8800 cards, well they have already bought one...
Buying 2 FC blocks, which aren't cheap and FC blocks are by history a "one block, one GFX card"-solution, who would invest another 100$+ in a new one?
The 8800 cards aren't brand new anymore and the new generations are just around the corner...
What do you think?
/Thomas
ANP !!!
06-03-2007, 12:38 AM
Looks nice :D
Envydia007
06-03-2007, 12:45 AM
Ouch $109, Id get the EK FC instead of this.
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 12:52 AM
I agree it's way late to the party, but of all the 8800 full cover blocks, this one has the most potential to be still applicable to the next generation given the simple mounting solution using the four holes around the core. I also suspect the vreg portion of the board is the most likely thing to dramatically change in a next gen board so not covering that may buy some future use for this block.
The major detractor to this design is it's terrible plumbing consideration for running SLI. Although they show a couple of pics above, they are using a board with max spacing between SLI slots. My DFI board uses adjacent PEG slots for SLI, making this design terrible from a tubing perspective. Most FC blocks with openings above the card are much more desirable from a plumbing perspective than this.
Obviously it's designed to replace the MCW60 and all the RAM sinks... with a more elegant solution with similar/better performance... but it's just a shame they don't go all the way and come up with a no-compromise design with excellent performance AND consideration for plumbing SLI elegantly. Why not at least offer an elbow or something that allows it to be used more elegantly in SLI? It's just trading one kludge for another.
As a product manager myself, I'd be interested in why some of the design decisions were made the way they were and why SLI users were not more carefully considered since they are the ones with big $$$ to spend on stuff like this.
Edit: I agree with the price... had it come in between an MCW-60 and a EK FCB, it would be much more attractive... i.e. $75. But $109 put's it squarely in the price range of other full cover blocks with full copper bases that cover the Vregs as well.
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 12:58 AM
ok was this smart i change my order The Koolance blocks to these thing was this smart i was on here and saw these so i went out and got them
safan80
06-03-2007, 01:01 AM
It's been on swiftech for a few days now, but I want to see what's inside!
Envydia007
06-03-2007, 01:03 AM
ok was this smart i change my order The Koolance blocks to these thing was this smart i was on here and saw these so i went out and got them
OK youll be the first here. Show us some results when you get it.:D
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 01:04 AM
It's been on swiftech for a few days now, but I want to see what's inside!
Pics of the inside are now on the Swiftech site... as you might expect, it uses a GTX base plate over the core and the top is simply a machined aluminum block ala the GTX but bigger.
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:05 AM
but was that a smart idea i was going to do a review on the koolance waterblock and show the insides of it and also make a ploy top for the things but do you think this thing will out perform the koolance block in sli?
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:06 AM
well i hope it worth it
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 01:09 AM
I agree it's way late to the party, but of all the 8800 full cover blocks, this one has the most potential to be still applicable to the next generation given the vreg portion is the most likely thing to dramatically change in a next gen board.
The major detractor to this design is it's terrible plumbing consideration for running SLI. Although they show a couple of pics above, they are using a board with max spacing between SLI slots. My DFI board uses adjacent PEG slots for SLI, making this design terrible from a tubing perspective. Most FC blocks with openings above the card are much more desirable from a plumbing perspective than this.
Obviously it's designed to replace the MCW60 and all the RAM sinks... with a more elegant solution with similar/better performance... but it's just a shame they don't go all the way and come up with a no-compromise design with excellent performance AND consideration for plumbing SLI elegantly. Why not at least offer an elbow or something that allows it to be used more elegantly in SLI? It's just trading one kludge for another.
Edit: I agree with the price... had it come in between an MCW-60 and a EK FCB, it would be much more attractive... i.e. $75. But $109?
Yes, you can hope for Swiftech knows something we don't about the future Nvidia GFX designs.
But I'm quite skeptical about it... It requires a lot of simularities like; GPU, RAM, I/O-chip and condensator placement and height, amount of RAM, no new added chips like a new I/O-chip etc.... The list is a mile long and one little chip can ruin it all...
I don't think the horisontal thread design is as bad as you make it...
Some SmartCoils really allows the tubing to make some remarkable bends without kinking and a T-line or Y-line splitter are also a solution...
/Thomas
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 01:11 AM
well the block itself looks really attractive, if i would not already own a EK block
i would definitely consider getting a pair the these swiftech babies.
by the looks of it, it's basically a MCW-60 (with gtx base plate) that has integrated ramsink part.. correct ???
alpha0ne
06-03-2007, 01:18 AM
Wayyyy overpriced :down:
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:20 AM
yea i dont know i think im going with the koolance and just going to do a review on it so all who want to know what it looks like and how it performs will get to know. sorry swift maybe next time
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 01:23 AM
Wayyyy overpriced :down:
The EK blocks are also a 110$ at petra and 115$ at performance-pcs...
So how come do you think it's wayyyy overpriced?
EDIT: I don't see why you guys think its soo overpriced and should costs less than the EK FC blocks?
This is also a FC block, GTS, GTX and Ultra compatible, included chrom fittings and MC21 heatsinkt and it will, quite likely, give better performance than the EK, so why should it cost less?!
/Thomas
Envydia007
06-03-2007, 01:28 AM
At lest we already know the performance of EK FC blocks.
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 01:29 AM
The EK blocks are also a 110$ at petra and 115$ at performance-pcs...
So how come do you think it's wayyyy overpriced?
/Thomas
probably ..cos it does not seem that building costs don't seem that high, just a guessing here :shrug:
Yozzman
06-03-2007, 01:30 AM
Id like the looks verry much!
But i like my EK FC @ 8800GTS also verry much :D
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:31 AM
and the other blocks like EK DD and Koolance in that order cool the Mosfets and every thing else you still need cooler for them here
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 01:33 AM
and the other blocks like EK DD and Koolance in that order cool the Mosfets and every thing else you still need cooler for them here
Nope, MC21 is included with the block AFAIK...
/Thomas
Envydia007
06-03-2007, 01:35 AM
yes as said that the Voltage regs are the only thing that will probly change in the next gen nvidia cards.
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 01:38 AM
probably ..cos it does not seem that building costs don't seem that high, just a guessing here :shrug:
Looking at the price of a Apogee GTX, I would have expected it to be expensiver...
110$ is IMO a quite nice price also having in mind it should be cheaper at regular vendors...
/Thomas
Aldy402
06-03-2007, 01:39 AM
i wanna see the internals
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:40 AM
yes as said that the Voltage regs are the only thing that will probly change in the next gen nvidia cards.
what in the waterblock or the video cards them selfs
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 01:41 AM
i wanna see the internals
of what the koolance waterblock or the new SWIFTECH STEALH
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 01:47 AM
Looking at the price of a Apogee GTX, I would have expected it to be expensiver...
110$ is IMO a quite nice price...
/Thomas
yeah i hear you ..thats like 82€ for instance EK is 80€ (acrylic cover) if you buy one straight from EK waterblocks, so not that huge difference.
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 01:55 AM
Here's how you can look at the pricing (using Jab-Tech for reference):
MCW-60 with RAMSINKS = $80
EK Full Cover Block = $115
DD Full Cover Block = $109
Apogee GTX = $73
The Stealth is really an Apogee GTX with a significantly larger aluminum top. Since the cost of aluminum is not that significant, I would expect the per-unit cost to make the Stealth is not much more than a GTX. It could have been priced at around $89 making it a really good price/performance choice.
Instead, it's priced the same as a full cover block which has:
- Full copper cooling plate (which must be more expensive)
- Full cover (including vregs)
- Better SLI plumbing options
It does seem a bit overpriced for what you get and how much copper is actually in the block compared to others.
fbmbirds
06-03-2007, 02:01 AM
aw i love how no one i mean no one ever talks about the Koolance waterblocks its always DD EK swiftech they say stay away from ALUM/Copper but look here we have this this that has a full alum top and every ones like yea its ok its protected but the Koolance block Stay far away has any one even used the koolance block or read a review if so i want to know and find out why no one likes koolance. besides the point that the company is dumb and half there other products do suck. but the waterblock doesnt look that bad. just wait in a week ill have a FULL review on here about the koolance waterblock with inside pics and a custom poly top for it.
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 02:06 AM
aw i love how no one i mean no one ever talks about the Koolance waterblocks its always DD EK swiftech they say stay away from ALUM/Copper but look here we have this this that has a full alum top and every ones like yea its ok its protected but the Koolance block Stay far away has any one even used the koolance block or read a review if so i want to know and find out why no one likes koolance. besides the point that the company is dumb and half there other products do suck. but the waterblock doesnt look that bad. just wait in a week ill have a FULL review on here about the koolance waterblock with inside pics and a custom poly top for it.
I look forward to your review. I bet it's restrictive. I also suspect they don't go to the lengths Swiftech does to plate and protect the aluminum from actual contact with the water. Having said that, there is still a major segment of the community here that won't touch the Apogee GTX or this block because of the aluminum either... they are affectionatly referred to as the "aluminum gestapo". You can expect them to make an appearance on this thread anytime now. :D
MrToad
06-03-2007, 02:16 AM
Virtualrain, how does this block compare to the MCW60 restriction-wise?
The graphs are in the swifty page, but they're in different units of measure.
I've became a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing illiterate, and I don't want to resurrect Torricelli again in order to make sense of them. He gets more pissed off every resurrection.
JeffnWV
06-03-2007, 02:48 AM
the other thing that I noticed is that they are a definate adjacent pci slot killer...at least with the EK's I have my pci slots available (and used)
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 04:33 AM
Here's how you can look at the pricing (using Jab-Tech for reference):
MCW-60 with RAMSINKS = $80
EK Full Cover Block = $115
DD Full Cover Block = $109
Apogee GTX = $73
The Stealth is really an Apogee GTX with a significantly larger aluminum top. Since the cost of aluminum is not that significant, I would expect the per-unit cost to make the Stealth is not much more than a GTX. It could have been priced at around $89 making it a really good price/performance choice.
Instead, it's priced the same as a full cover block which has:
- Full copper cooling plate (which must be more expensive)
- Full cover (including vregs)
- Better SLI plumbing options
It does seem a bit overpriced for what you get and how much copper is actually in the block compared to others.
I think you are way under estimating the production costs on the Stealth...
Yes, alu is cheaper than copper, but the development costs and machine time are 2-5(?) times higher than on the GTX...
Also so the Apogee GT/GTX base is for sure much more expensive to make, than EKs Wave design...
Don't forget the costs Swiftech have put into developing the plating for the GTX line, copper and alu mixed products discussion aside :)
And again, why don't you see the Stealth as a Full Cover block?!
/Thomas
This thing will trash the EK water block. What's wrong with you guys ?
I could care less if it is made with turd and looks like a turd, if it kills the rest in performance.
Anemone
06-03-2007, 04:43 AM
While I won't really use this due to the AL thing :)
I did want to note that with the GTX base, this is likely to outperform the EK by some margin on the high heat producing 8800's. Now whether that additional performance gets you anything for higher clocks, that's another matter entirely.
Just pointing out that the design does have some benefits.
Aluminum.. la la la.. more aluminum...
I'll soon be sent to the aluminum gas chamber by the aluminum gestapo !!
I must say... what is the thinking behind that T-junction series parallel block set up. Seems to fly against convention.
Another thing... what is this nonsense about being late to the game?
Swiftech has had the best performing video block for the G80 from day one. Everyone has tried to compete aginst the MCW60 and has failed. Now, we have a block that potentially does better than the MCW60. Late to the game ?
And I no longer have SLI kink concerns.. mine are on separate loops :)
Anemone
06-03-2007, 05:32 AM
I must say... what is the thinking behind that T-junction series parallel block set up. Seems to fly against convention.
so does using aluminum LOL :) (just ribbin - not trying to be mean)
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 07:35 AM
Another thing... what is this nonsense about being late to the game?
Swiftech has had the best performing video block for the G80 from day one. Everyone has tried to compete aginst the MCW60 and has failed. Now, we have a block that potentially does better than the MCW60. Late to the game ?
:)
i'm pretty sure Thomas FJ was refering in the title about stealth being too late on fullcover block race :rolleyes:
i'm pretty sure Thomas FJ was refering in the title about stealth being too late on fullcover block race :rolleyes:
The full covered race .. a race for second place... And the Stealth is not a full covered block. The liquid flow does not travel to the memory chips.. THANK GOD
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 07:58 AM
The full covered race .. a race for second place... And the Stealth is not a full covered block. The liquid flow does not travel to the memory chips.. THANK GOD
sigh ..yes i do know that, just saying maybe Thomas FJ got confused or something.
Thomas FJ
06-03-2007, 08:14 AM
The full covered race .. a race for second place... And the Stealth is not a full covered block. The liquid flow does not travel to the memory chips.. THANK GOD
Hehe, let us define a full cover block then.
A Full Cover block means to me, that it covers and cools the whole card... Nothing about if its actively cooling the whole card or not...
Therefore is the Stealth a Full Cover block to me :)
/Thomas
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 08:38 AM
Hehe, let us define a full cover block then.
A Full Cover block means to me, that it covers and cools the whole card... Nothing about if its actively cooling the whole card or not...
Therefore is the Stealth a Full Cover block to me :)
/Thomas
well thats what i was thinking that you meant what you wrote on your first post..
it really is how you define fullcover block in the first place.. to me it looks like a some sort of hybrid, i bet that people at swiftech were thinking that they wanted to integrate the best from both worlds. good flow with minimum restriction but still have something to cool the rest of the components on a video card too.. actually now that i thing of it this really is not a new concept..
any one remember heatkiller blocks, the idea is virtually the same isn't it.
http://www.watercool.de/cms/forum/thread.php?threadid=3429
erik.p
06-03-2007, 08:47 AM
At lest we already know the performance of EK FC blocks.
If someone has a rig to test them and make a small GPU waterblock round-up I'd bet the MCW60 and the Stealth would be the best performers.
DD/EK/Innovatek (LOL) won't do much against them
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 11:35 AM
There is no doubt that the stealth will be similar in performance to an MCW-60. However, the added performance of an MCW-60 or Stealth can only be leveraged if you volt mod your card... then you run into the issue that you are driving more current through the vregs.
So,
If you aren't going to volt mod your card, any FC water block will provide you more overclock headroom than you need.
If you are going to volt mod your card, then you likely want something that covers the vregs as well.
So where does the Stealth fit into this, especially given it's added challenge with SLI plumbing?
serialk11r
06-03-2007, 11:49 AM
Hmmmm...after a second look I must say I'm a little confused with the high pressure drop. Gonna look at some more numbers. Its a little hard to believe that an Apogee GTX like block with 2 extra 90s has that much higher pressure drop.
Solarfall
06-03-2007, 12:05 PM
If someone has a rig to test them and make a small GPU waterblock round-up I'd bet the MCW60 and the Stealth would be the best performers.
DD/EK/Innovatek (LOL) won't do much against them
you might be in for a surbrise since it seems like this new stealth block is kind of a hybrid and water only flows in small are like in MCW-60... but until we see some tests it's all speculation.
Obviously it's designed to replace the MCW60 and all the RAM sinks... with a more elegant solution with similar/better performance...
nope. this is not intended to replace anything. this is in addition to. this is designed to complement the Apogee GTX and create a high end "custom" product line.
but it's just a shame they don't go all the way and come up with a no-compromise design with excellent performance AND consideration for plumbing SLI elegantly. ..As a product manager myself, I'd be interested in why some of the design decisions were made the way they were and why SLI users were not more carefully considered since they are the ones with big $$$ to spend on stuff like this.
The only compromise in this design is out of a desire to provide compatibility for all series 8 declinations. In that respect, it is expected to have a broader appeal. As to plumbing, email Stephen: he believes that system to be superior in terms of assembly/disassembly.
I have no opinion on the subject one way or the other. I haven't had any issues installing the SLI in either the Asus, the EVGA of the DFI we have here. Maybe some Mobo's won't work with this, but are they the most popular among power users?
Edit: I agree with the price... had it come in between an MCW-60 and a EK FCB, it would be much more attractive... i.e. $75. But $109 put's it squarely in the price range of other full cover blocks with full copper bases that cover the Vregs as well.
I responded to your concerns about the mosfets in another post. The price of the product reflects the fact that this is a limited production item, just like the EK's and DD's. So costs are in the same ballpark.
serialk11r
06-03-2007, 08:51 PM
I don't see anything wrong with this, I think the design is sound in all areas...
Virtualrain if you think the aluminum makes it not worth the 109 dollars think again, you know how much money it takes to mill that top out??? Then add the plating and bling effect dye? (that's not too significant but :P)
gabe any particular thoughts on the crazy restriction issue? My hypothesis is that the chamber is lowered so the top is closer to the pins, causing more restriction but I don't have one obviously :P
ColonelCain
06-03-2007, 10:02 PM
Meh.. for that much, I'll stick with an EK full cover, and a reverse atx case so I can see the liquid!
But it will have crazy performance. I'd want to see a deriative single block with the GT base on an R600.
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 10:10 PM
nope. this is not intended to replace anything. this is in addition to. this is designed to complement the Apogee GTX and create a high end "custom" product line.
The only compromise in this design is out of a desire to provide compatibility for all series 8 declinations. In that respect, it is expected to have a broader appeal. As to plumbing, email Stephen: he believes that system to be superior in terms of assembly/disassembly.
I have no opinion on the subject one way or the other. I haven't had any issues installing the SLI in either the Asus, the EVGA of the DFI we have here. Maybe some Mobo's won't work with this, but are they the most popular among power users?
I responded to your concerns about the mosfets in another post. The price of the product reflects the fact that this is a limited production item, just like the EK's and DD's. So costs are in the same ballpark.
Thanks Gabe. Appreciate your responses. I understand your positioning... it makes sense.
Despite some of my concerns, I really like the design of the block as it probably provides superior performance with nice aesthetics, especially since I'm using a GTX. If I decide to go with this, I'm just going to have to be creative with SLI plumbing... Some kind of long elbow to clear the top of the card I guess. It's just a problem that other FCB solve nicely.
virtualrain
06-03-2007, 10:12 PM
I don't see anything wrong with this, I think the design is sound in all areas...
Virtualrain if you think the aluminum makes it not worth the 109 dollars think again, you know how much money it takes to mill that top out??? Then add the plating and bling effect dye? (that's not too significant but :P)
I agree the cost of design is probably very significant, but in the end, the per-unit cost of materials should be lower than a FCB that uses a a full copper plate. At any rate, the value is there so the material is secondary.
ranker
06-03-2007, 10:13 PM
nope. this is not intended to replace anything. this is in addition to. this is designed to complement the Apogee GTX and create a high end "custom" product line.
Gabe, when will you go back to focusing on the performance aspect of WC'ing that made Swiftech so prominent and reputable in the first place? Looks are great, but it seems as if the looks resulted in the use of aluminum. I know you guys go far beyond what other manufacturers use, but I really think this goes against what made Swiftech so famous...their no nonsense approach towards performance. I own a GTX waterblock (amongst many others) but I'd have much more peace of mind if the "custom" look was done away with and a usual delrin/copper top went in it's place. After all, its the location of the jets and pin layout that made the GTX the performer that it is.
The only compromise in this design is out of a desire to provide compatibility for all series 8 declinations. In that respect, it is expected to have a broader appeal. As to plumbing, email Stephen: he believes that system to be superior in terms of assembly/disassembly.
I have no opinion on the subject one way or the other. I haven't had any issues installing the SLI in either the Asus, the EVGA of the DFI we have here. Maybe some Mobo's won't work with this, but are they the most popular among power users?
I also wonder why some consideration wasn't put into making SLI tubing easier to manage. It was the reason I switched from an MCW60 build to an EK FC build. Some cases just don't have the width to support the horse-shoe shaped tubing that's required for SLI configs.
I've been a Swiftech fan for quite some time. I hope future product releases are focused more on performance without worrying about the "looks" that compromise design with the use of alu.
Like Iany says, I don't care if it looks like turd, as long as it performs the best.
Here's looking forward to more stuff from Swiftech!
PS Iany, yes I'm part of the Alu Gestapo! :cool:
serialk11r
06-03-2007, 10:18 PM
I also wonder why some consideration wasn't put into making SLI tubing easier to manage. It was the reason I switched from an MCW60 build to an EK FC build. Some cases just don't have the width to support the horse-shoe shaped tubing that's required for SLI configs.
The EKs have 2 90s to make SLI configs easier :cool: slap some elbows onto your MCW60s and you'll have the same thing but better :D
ranker
06-03-2007, 10:47 PM
The EKs have 2 90s to make SLI configs easier :cool: slap some elbows onto your MCW60s and you'll have the same thing but better :D
Call me lazy, but I'd rather their FC product do that for me without me having to take the initiative to do it myself. Especially if I'm going to be paying $109 for it. I may spend liberally for this hobby, but I sleep better at night if I know I didn't get raped in the wallet.
If I'm eating at McDonald's, I'll just be happy they didn't spit in my food. However, if I'm eating at Morton's, I expect to be addressed by my last name and have my wine preferences remembered where I'm a regular at.
If I'm paying top dollar, then I expect all the bells and whistles... that includes internal 90's if need be.
PS. I'm still going to be buying one.
alpha0ne
06-04-2007, 12:32 AM
Whoever setup that 'loop' in image# 3 (installed in parallel ) could never have ever used WC and has NFI how fluids flow :shrug: :ROTF:
fbmbirds
06-04-2007, 12:38 AM
i dont know it might? looks like alot of water would be going every were might work?
Whoever setup that 'loop' in image# 3 (installed in parallel ) could never have ever used WC and has NFI how fluids flow :shrug: :ROTF:
open mouth, insert foot;)
Give me two three days, and we'll try to post real life test results here: http://swiftnets.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=55ce85c2f5fa071c8683f3624983f411
For info I use one in my own rig at home. The GTX sits at 49C iddle and peaks at 54C after two hours of racing GTR2 (my favorite game). My setup is geared towards extreme low noise, and I ONLY use a single MCR120 Radiator, with the fan running at 5~7 volts. This system build is composed of an E6600 @ a moderate OC of 3250x1.4v, Apogee GTX, 8800GTX @ a moderate OC of 625x1050, and MCP350.. All 3/8" tubing, and all in the P180 case. Believe or not, I have also put two 8800 GTX's in this loop (parallel setup), with the same OC and the VGA temps rose only 1C. CPU temps are also happy at these settings, and stay in the mid 50's at load.
We' have also tested extensively with volt mods, and our results are embodied in a 20250 score in 3D Marks O6 here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=1873908
Finally we have also tested with a Quad and SLI and (1) MCR120 !!!YES PEOPLE!!! and got a 17649 score here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=2054649
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2229464&postcount=28
hecktic
06-04-2007, 02:45 AM
hmm i find myself in a tough position... should I go for the Fuzion GFX with the known pressure drop issue despite I will be putting it into a dedicated loop or should I go for this new swiftech block despite it has aluminum on it?
Oh, the aluminum secret service gestapo !
MrToad
06-04-2007, 03:52 AM
hmm i find myself in a tough position... should I go for the Fuzion GFX with the known pressure drop issue despite I will be putting it into a dedicated loop or should I go for this new swiftech block despite it has aluminum on it?
You're in a very simple position indeed.
If pressure drop is an issue, this block has double the restriction of the Fuzion GFX, so it's very simple.
Buy a MCW60 paired with the D-Tek "heatsink onry" and that's it.
No restriction, no aluminium, shiny happy people.
Shinny, happy people holding hands... {altogether now}... shinny happy people holding hands...
You guys speak as though there's a major international crisis of epic proportions :)
MrToad
06-04-2007, 05:55 AM
Shinny, happy people holding hands... {altogether now}... shinny happy people holding hands...
You guys speak as though there's a major international crisis of epic proportions :)
There is... there's a shortgage of Aluminium. Oh my god! we're all going to die!*
(*)Eventually
There is... there's a shortgage of Aluminium. Oh my god! we're all going to die!*
(*)Eventually
The use military spec plating... so there's a shortage of zinc plating for the military... so we won't have enough thermonuclear missiles production... the world is going end up with nuclear winter... we are all going to die !!
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 06:16 AM
The use military spec plating... so there's a shortage of zinc plating for the military... so we won't have enough thermonuclear missiles production... the world is going end up with nuclear winter... we are all going to die !!
:up: :yepp: :) :p: :D ;) :clap: :ROTF:
However, if I'm eating at Morton's, I expect to be addressed by my last name and have my wine preferences remembered where I'm a regular at.
I don't know which Morton's you go to, but in NYC, we get equal opportunity service... as in "we don't know who tf you are and wtf you wanna eat... and you f-ing wait till we decide we wanna f-ing serve you... and here's the f-ing bill and we tacked on a couple of extras plus our big tip... now eat up and get tf outta here cos people are waiting for your fat ass to finish up.. before I get Guido to throw you out " :D
MrToad
06-04-2007, 06:45 AM
The use military spec plating... so there's a shortage of zinc plating for the military... so we won't have enough thermonuclear missiles production... the world is going end up with nuclear winter... we are all going to die !!
I perceive something counter-intuitive in your reasoning ^^;
However, we will have someone to blame, so that makes it all right.
The Aluminium Gestapo made companies use military spec plating, hence the shortgatge for the military, which brought apocalypsis.
Therefore, the Aluminium Gestapo is directly responsible for the inminent Apocalypsis.
If we cull them quick enough, we can avert the impending doom.
Reach for the torches and forks, we're going hunting.
PS: What a lot of bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:... I should not post in the forums while I'm working.
I perceive something counter-intuitive in your reasoning ^^;
However, we will have someone to blame, so that makes it all right.
The Aluminium Gestapo made companies use military spec plating, hence the shortgatge for the military, which brought apocalypsis.
Therefore, the Aluminium Gestapo is directly responsible for the inminent Apocalypsis.
If we cull them quick enough, we can avert the impending doom.
Reach for the torches and forks, we're going hunting.
PS: What a lot of bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:... I should not post in the forums while I'm working.
You confuse me considerably :) Now I know why I love these forums so much :)
Anyway... we're all going to die OMG !!!
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 07:01 AM
I don't know which Morton's you go to, but in NYC, we get equal opportunity service... as in "we don't know who tf you are and wtf you wanna eat... and you f-ing wait till we decide we wanna f-ing serve you... and here's the f-ing bill and we tacked on a couple of extras plus our big tip... now eat up and get tf outta here cos people are waiting for your fat ass to finish up.. before I get Guido to throw you out " :D
big tip my A$$, here is a tip "shut up and take the damn order and I don't want to cold food":p:
MrToad
06-04-2007, 07:20 AM
You confuse me considerably :) Now I know why I love these forums so much :)
Anyway... we're all going to die OMG !!!
Is the voices. They make me do it. But you know what? Most people are jealous because the little voices talk only to me...
Anyway, on topic and dropping the controversial-for-the-sake-of-it hood, I'm going to get one of these blocks and put it in my loop.
If it's restriction hurts my CPU temps, I will just frame it and hang it on the wall. And if the military grade plating fails, and it corrodes, I will still frame it and hang it on the wall. And in both cases I will have no one but myself to blame. And that makes it all right.
However, if my intuition is correct, and works as expected, and it does what it says in the box, and it does it all right, I will be a very happy batrachian indeed.
And for the record, I will not use plain distilled water, I will keep on using Zerex @5%. Just in case someone decides to put words in my mouth again.
EDIT: BTW, Iany, if what puzzles you is my answer to hecktic, it might be because my inadequacies when it comes to english language. Sometimes things don't read the same way I think I've wrote them, if you know what I mean.
I just pointed out that he was not in a difficult situation, because for him it was not either or, so there really was no choice.
If the restriction of the GFX was a reason not to buy it, then the Stealth is a definite no-no for him, because is twaice as restrictive, regardless of the AL top. Therefore the choice was easiest impossible, buy a MCW60, which has been tried and tested, and it does what it says in the box, stick one of the D-Tek full-cover heatsinks if you don't want to fiddle with individual ones, and off you go.
OPPAINTER
06-04-2007, 08:33 AM
Here is mine on my GTS card.
Notice the ecxellent memory contact (Paste Squirtige) :D
OPP
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 08:39 AM
Here is mine on my GTS card.
Notice the ecxellent memory contact (Paste Squirtige) :D
OPP
he said "squirtige":ROTF: :rofl:
It is a sexy looking block, but if the performance is not there, then I am inclined to stick with my MCW60s, though its still a win for Swiftech........ya'll got my money anyway.
OPPAINTER
06-04-2007, 08:50 AM
As far as performance is concerned, I tested this block at Swiftech with a v-modded 8800 GTX.
With the previous cooler, MCW60 and heatsinks on the ram, the card did 720/1200. We had artifacts from the ram at 1200.
After putting on the Stealth block useing the same voltage the card did the same clocks, only this time the memory had no more artifacts.
Excellent block for overvolted memory.
OPP
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 09:09 AM
Well I don't think I will be OVing my card :-P.
Though it is a tempting idea as I have naked cores already.......
I don't know which Morton's you go to, but in NYC, we get equal opportunity service... as in "we don't know who tf you are and wtf you wanna eat... and you f-ing wait till we decide we wanna f-ing serve you... and here's the f-ing bill and we tacked on a couple of extras plus our big tip... now eat up and get tf outta here cos people are waiting for your fat ass to finish up.. before I get Guido to throw you out " :D
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gabe, when will you go back to focusing on the performance aspect of WC'ing that made Swiftech so prominent and reputable in the first place? Looks are great, but it seems as if the looks resulted in the use of aluminum. I know you guys go far beyond what other manufacturers use, but I really think this goes against what made Swiftech so famous...their no nonsense approach towards performance. I own a GTX waterblock (amongst many others) but I'd have much more peace of mind if the "custom" look was done away with and a usual delrin/copper top went in it's place. After all, its the location of the jets and pin layout that made the GTX the performer that it is.
We never stopped focusing on performance ranker. You seem to be forgetting that the Stealth IS an Apogee GTX with wings: same base plate, same diagonal inlet outlet position in the coolant cavity..
I see the Stealth as the single most no-nonsense creation at swiftech: use the most efficient cold plate we have ever made, eliminate the unnecessary coolant channels to flow over memory & NVIO, using the thermal properties of AL to do the job instead , use separate HS for mosfets to maximize compatibility with series 8 versions..
your'e only complaining because we use aluminum but in this particular waterblock, AL was the ONLY sensible material to use based on the design specifications.
I also wonder why some consideration wasn't put into making SLI tubing easier to manage. It was the reason I switched from an MCW60 build to an EK FC build. Some cases just don't have the width to support the horse-shoe shaped tubing that's required for SLI configs.
Because contrary to what you said above, we REMAIN a performance oriented company: we discussed the issue, and concurred that a horse shoe had less pressure drop than the built-in T's, in addition to the fact that the built-in T penalizes the non-SLI users.
So you see, you complain that we don't think in terms of performance, but you yourself want performance compromised for the sake of your convenience...
I've been a Swiftech fan for quite some time. I hope future product releases are focused more on performance without worrying about the "looks" that compromise design with the use of alu.
Like Iany says, I don't care if it looks like turd, as long as it performs the best.
I hear your concern loud and clear with respect to looks vs. performance, but be rest assured that cutting-edge technology can also be designed to look good.
OPPAINTER
06-04-2007, 10:01 AM
Anybody know what a good overclock is on these 8800GTS cards with stock voltage is supose to be? I have now clue:D
What do you GTS owners get?
OPP
Thomas FJ
06-04-2007, 10:23 AM
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/stealth-sli-2.jpg
http://www.swiftech.com/assets/images/products/Stealth/Stealth-sli-parallel.jpg
Looking at the pics once more, I have noticed the different colours of the part over the GPU...
One is grey and one is black...
/Thomas
beaneh
06-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Do you mean the part holding the barbs? I think thats more of a lighting thing than a colour mismatch. I could be wrong tho!
Looking at the pics once more, I have noticed the different colours of the part over the GPU...
One is grey and one is black...
/Thomas
yes. the polished top is one of a few we tried that way.
Gabe, Oppainter,
I need to congratulate both of you on a beautiful job and a compelling product.
Is Swiftech marketing that black tubing? I see its used in your P180 case.
Gabe, Oppainter,
I need to congratulate both of you on a beautiful job and a compelling product.
Is Swiftech marketing that black tubing? I see its used in your P180 case.
yes I believe we are about to put it on the site. note that the product cost is indexed on gold & platinum prices, and you will need to take a second mortgage on your house to buy a few feet. It is made by the St Gobain Conglomerate, and specifically formulated for ultra low porosity. No refills needed for years with that type of tubing.
yes I believe we are about to put it on the site. note that the product cost is indexed on gold & platinum prices, and you will need to take a second mortgage on your house to buy a few feet. It is made by the St Gobain Conglomerate, and specifically formulated for ultra low porosity. No refills needed for years with that type of tubing.
I see that Swiftech decided to acquire St. Gobain. You executed a LBO transaction with a 100-to-1 leverage ratio! I see that you own 99.95% of St. Gobain... not bad.. since St. Gobain's market cap is about.. Euro $22 BN... and is among the top 20 largest mkt. cap. on the Paris CAC40 :)
Ahh.. if its indexed to gold, I need to go buy some gold futures to hedge my risk position !!
Incidently, I have got one of your P180s in my near term future plans..
I see that Swiftech decided to acquire St. Gobain. You executed a LBO transaction with a 100-to-1 leverage ratio! I see that you own 99.95% of St. Gobain... not bad.. since St. Gobain's market cap is about.. Euro $22 BN... and is among the top 20 largest mkt. cap. on the Paris CAC40 :)
Ahh.. if its indexed to gold, I need to go buy some gold futures to hedge my risk position !!
Incidently, I have got one of your P180s in my near term future plans..
The funniest part of all of this is that I actually did my internship at StGobain 30 years ago!
P180: read your PM'S.
virtualrain
06-04-2007, 11:38 AM
Anybody know what a good overclock is on these 8800GTS cards with stock voltage is supose to be? I have now clue:D
What do you GTS owners get?
OPP
@Oppainter... Good overclock database here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144924
Anybody know what a good overclock is on these 8800GTS cards with stock voltage is supose to be? I have now clue:D
What do you GTS owners get?
OPP
Eric, note from the O/C database (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144924): we got the highest memory O/C at 1205 vmodded, but our 725 Max core O/C's looks relatively mediocre.. bad cards I guess ?
virtualrain
06-04-2007, 11:49 AM
Eric, note from the O/C database (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144924): we got the highest memory O/C at 1205 vmodded, but our 725 Max core O/C's looks relatively mediocre.. bad cards I guess ?
What do you mean... 725 core OC is damn good!
What do you mean... 725 core OC is damn good!
I apologize.. It was 710/1205, I re-checked.
710 is kind of mediocre.. I have high expectations with OPP on my team :-)
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
WEll so far, as I have not gone higher yet on water I am @ 651/951 in SLI. I am still working on CPU OC, but philly_boy has my chip, though I recently acquired a X6800 so I have yet to play with that and see what I can pull down, mind you I am a novice OCer @ best.
WEll so far, as I have not gone higher yet on water I am @ 651/951 in SLI. I am still working on CPU OC, but philly_boy has my chip, though I recently acquired a X6800 so I have yet to play with that and see what I can pull down, mind you I am a novice OCer @ best.
can't remember what my XFX stock O/C was, but when I got the EVGA it did 615/1006 with stock cooling, and then I pushed it to 660/1034 with Stealth..
then Eric took over, vmodded the thing and got busy taking the v/modded SLI setup to 710/1205
phelan1777
06-04-2007, 12:16 PM
can't remember what my XFX stock O/C was, but when I got the EVGA it did 615/1006 with stock cooling, and then I pushed it to 660/1034 with Stealth..
then Eric took over, vmodded the thing and got busy taking the v/modded SLI setup to 710/1205
I know a guy @ work that has some MAD soldering skills, I have seen some of his work, we were talking, if I can get him the right pieces, he would do the work for me.
I am still working under water, but the Qcore was dumping some serious heat, I am assuming the X won't drop nearly as much, so I could in theory have a little more head room for heat dump, but this is if my cards want to go higher.
I know a guy @ work that has some MAD soldering skills, I have seen some of his work, we were talking, if I can get him the right pieces, he would do the work for me.
I am still working under water, but the Qcore was dumping some serious heat, I am assuming the X won't drop nearly as much, so I could in theory have a little more head room for heat dump, but this is if my cards want to go higher.
If you have extreme cooling available (dual or triple rads) then full-time vmods are fine. But I disabled mine on my home system because I am using a single rad. For everyday use, I can't see the difference anyways.
MrToad
06-04-2007, 12:39 PM
gabe, did you get any orders from UK stores?
A Yes/No will suffice, is just to decide whether I wait or I order it from the US straight away.
Thanks.
JargonGR
06-04-2007, 12:46 PM
If only this had come out earlier I would have bought it for my 8800GTX SLI. But I went the MC14 sinks and 2 Apogees 1U instead. I have great temps and I can do 665/1029 on water and this is not with a volt modded card. I just can't even picture me taking those cards out with the MC14 again! It was a pain to make them stick in the first place using 3M material.
My temps range from 39-41 idle and 45-46 load on the GPUS overclocked. This is with a PA120.3 dedicated to the gpus.
Nevermind I may consider buying those if I was sure they would fit next gen gpus.
gabe, did you get any orders from UK stores?
A Yes/No will suffice, is just to decide whether I wait or I order it from the US straight away.
Thanks.
I don't know. we did ship the product to our master European distributor Bacata this last friday, then they spread them thru their channels which do include the UK.
If only this had come out earlier I would have bought it for my 8800GTX SLI. But I went the MC14 sinks and 2 Apogees 1U instead. I have great temps and I can do 665/1029 on water and this is not with a volt modded card. I just can't even picture me taking those cards out with the MC14 again! It was a pain to make them stick in the first place using 3M material.
My temps range from 39-41 idle and 45-46 load on the GPUS overclocked. This is with a PA120.3 dedicated to the gpus.
Nevermind I may consider buying those if I was sure they would fit next gen gpus.
these are great temps, and excellent O/C's. question in my mind is: are these stable O/C's (playing intense graphic games for hours on end like we do for bench testing here..? )
I found myself perfectly able to bench 3D Marks 06 at even higher O/C's than that, but being unstable in extended game playing..
MrToad
06-04-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't know. we did ship the product to our master European distributor Bacata this last friday, then they spread them thru their channels which do include the UK.
Thanks :)
I've posted the question in a couple of well knows shop's forums. We'll see...
ranker
06-04-2007, 06:01 PM
We never stopped focusing on performance ranker. You seem to be forgetting that the Stealth IS an Apogee GTX with wings: same base plate, same diagonal inlet outlet position in the coolant cavity..
I see the Stealth as the single most no-nonsense creation at swiftech: use the most efficient cold plate we have ever made, eliminate the unnecessary coolant channels to flow over memory & NVIO, using the thermal properties of AL to do the job instead , use separate HS for mosfets to maximize compatibility with series 8 versions..
your'e only complaining because we use aluminum but in this particular waterblock, AL was the ONLY sensible material to use based on the design specifications.
You've already got my money as I've got two on order. However, I'm still going to be grumpy as it contains aluminum: of course this it out of principle.
Because contrary to what you said above, we REMAIN a performance oriented company: we discussed the issue, and concurred that a horse shoe had less pressure drop than the built-in T's, in addition to the fact that the built-in T penalizes the non-SLI users.
So you see, you complain that we don't think in terms of performance, but you yourself want performance compromised for the sake of your convenience...
I hear your concern loud and clear with respect to looks vs. performance, but be rest assured that cutting-edge technology can also be designed to look good.
I'd like to be given the option of either format such as how EK's blocks give me the option of utilizing the "SLI config" with the slight restriction hit or the normal performance oriented positioning. I'm sure your company utilizes engineers that can find a way to make that happen.
Nevertheless, I've got a block on order from Petra's and would love to see this thing perform as well as Iany's been hyping it.
But still..imma be grumpy about the Alu ;)
I don't know which Morton's you go to, but in NYC, we get equal opportunity service... as in "we don't know who tf you are and wtf you wanna eat... and you f-ing wait till we decide we wanna f-ing serve you... and here's the f-ing bill and we tacked on a couple of extras plus our big tip... now eat up and get tf outta here cos people are waiting for your fat ass to finish up.. before I get Guido to throw you out "
Having lived over there for awhile, it's more of a NY thang. Over in Cali, especially in Orange County, I expect waiters to kiss my ass and enjoy every minute of it. Call me spoiled :D
quicksilverXP
06-04-2007, 06:18 PM
What's so bad about the use of Alu? Does it use the same plating technique as the old MCWs? I remember about after a year the blue anodizing would eventually come out on the inside.
If it's an even better technique I don't see the point in thinking that the use of Alu in this case is bad.
I'd like to be given the option of either format such as how EK's blocks give me the option of utilizing the "SLI config" with the slight restriction hit or the normal performance oriented positioning. I'm sure your company utilizes engineers that can find a way to make that happen.
When we design our products, we typically do not look at the competition. In this case maybe we should have. Frankly we have not even seen an EK block here. come to think of it, anyone wants to swap one (in perfect condition) against a Stealth so we can do some competitive testing in house ?
In fact two blocks would be even better to do some SLI testing.
Come to think of it even more, same thing applies to the DD full coverage blocks.
Dont' PM me if you are interested. Just email me direct at gabe@swiftech.com
Important note: it is our Company Policy NOT to publish competitive testing on independant web sites or forums such as XS, nor to publish such info in our product main pages; we feel that this is the Job of the review sites, and we do not wish to substitute ourselves to them; nonetheless, we do post the results of our competitive testing in the "Theory & Practice" section of our forums.
ranker
06-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Come to think of it even more, same thing applies to the DD full coverage blocks.
You're going to get inundated with requests for this exchange. I can't think of many people who were totally satisfied with their DD block.
In any case, I appreciate you stopping by and fielding questions/concerns as you normally do with a product's launch. It's one of the reasons I purchased my GTX block even with the hesitations I have for Alu.
But I do hope you look towards making SLI configs easier in the future. It'd make purchasing future Swiftech GPU blocks a no brainer. The only reason I'm going from a GPU only block back to a FC block (for the 3rd time) is just for simpler tubing runs.
Hard H20
06-04-2007, 06:39 PM
Come to think of it even more, same thing applies to the DD full coverage blocks.
Dont' PM me if you are interested. Just email me direct at gabe@swiftech.com
.
I really wish you would have said this about 4 days ago. I just unloaded 2 DD full cover blocks dirt cheap. :( That would have been one hell of a swap.
In any case, I appreciate you stopping by and fielding questions/concerns as you normally do with a product's launch.
Are you kidding? I love XS.. it's a lot of fun! despite some stubbornly and anally-retentive :horse: aluminum-haters, I truly enjoy coming here to :wierd: on my customers (or vice-versa) ;)
I really wish you would have said this about 4 days ago. I just unloaded 2 DD full cover blocks dirt cheap. :( That would have been one hell of a swap.
Damn, :confused: I didn't know ppl didn't like their DD blocks. I thought Jeremy was making a killing with these.. Ah perception, perception.. Maybe I should publish a retraction and focus on the EK only.
Hard H20
06-04-2007, 06:52 PM
gabe,
I got rid of them and went back to my trusty MCW60's on my 2 8800GTX's. I now find myself in need of 2 Stealth blocks for 2 8800 Ultras that are sitting at home right now. :)
gabe,
I got rid of them and went back to my trusty MCW60's on my 2 8800GTX's. I now find myself in need of 2 Stealth blocks for 2 8800 Ultras that are sitting at home right now. :)
good for you!:up:
Baleful
06-04-2007, 06:57 PM
This may have been answered already, but will the Stealth fit Nvidias next VGA offerings (the 8900's or whatever's next to come out)?
This may have been answered already, but will the Stealth fit Nvidias next VGA offerings (the 8900's or whatever's next to come out)?
Sorry, but I have to take the fifth on that one.
Grinch
06-04-2007, 07:03 PM
hahahahaha
hecktic
06-04-2007, 07:10 PM
well aside from the spam in this thread after my last post lol... excluding mr. toad first post in response to mine (ty by the way mr toad) I think I will consider going with the new stealth block but this is against my own thinking due to the aluminum as others have mentioned.
My only question is, are those OC speeds stable that you got Gabe? IF so then how long were they stable for assuming you used the stealth gfx block for long periods of time running that OC spec. speed?
Also are they used with a published 3dmark score? (would be a nice addition to this thread if you could link me to the published score)
Im still going dedicated loop, PA 120.3, MCP6555-b, Tygon 2075, Mcres-micro res.
Thanks
Snyxxx
06-04-2007, 07:33 PM
I am glad to see that the coverage for the NVIO chip is better than most. The new Dtek heatsink POS coverage of this area does not look substantial enough for this hot little chip. Usually, the heatsink barely covers the chip. Glad to see Swiftech went a little further. Also, the MCW30 hard mount and raising kit worked great for me.
serialk11r
06-04-2007, 07:40 PM
HAHAHAHHAA you people these days are just getting too picky, before some people didn't give crap about RAM cooling on the 7 series nvidia cards, then with the 8 series people got real serious about the ram, the regulators, and even that tiny little chip in the corner. Now people are getting so serious, you see tons of watercooled SBs, people complaining about the tiny little miscellaneous things getting too hot, etc. you're starting to complain about "skimpy" coverage of that tiny little chip rofl. Even people who claimed fullcovers had better performance emerged, saying that keeping the ram super cold was absolutely essential. Have you ever considered that there might be a REASON as to why they don't put some extra fins over it? :)
Sorry I'm just not Xtreme in the way some of you are :P
My only question is, are those OC speeds stable that you got Gabe? IF so then how long were they stable for assuming you used the stealth gfx block for long periods of time running that OC spec. speed?
Also are they used with a published 3dmark score? (would be a nice addition to this thread if you could link me to the published score)Thanks
from another thread..
We' have also tested extensively with volt mods, and our results are embodied in a 20250 score in 3D Marks O6 here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=1873908
Finally we have also tested with a Quad and SLI and (1) MCR120 !!!YES PEOPLE!!! and got a 17649 score here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=2054649
The 20250 is not game stable. Just good enough for one good run. This is the single highest score on ambient water on the planet today (made top 20 in the hall of Fame); when your'e after a record your'e only interested in 7 mn of stability :-)
ranker
06-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Damn, :confused: I didn't know ppl didn't like their DD blocks. I thought Jeremy was making a killing with these.. Ah perception, perception.. Maybe I should publish a retraction and focus on the EK only.
They are, only because they were the only game in town. With EK's blocks being in such high demand with low production rates, DD stands to make a lot even with their sub-par QC as of late. If you scan the boards you'll see evidence of the horrible blasting job they did. They've had a run of blocks with micro fracture that toasted a bunch of systems over on EVGA's boards.
Anyhow, it's good to see more competition in the FC market. I'm hoping prices get driven down. The $120-130's being asked for these blocks are almost as expensive as the lesser clocked siblings of these cards. It's good to see that the lower price point of the Stealth is a step in the right direction. Here's hoping that we'll soon see FC blocks in the sub $100 range.
virtualrain
06-04-2007, 09:14 PM
I just purchased a volt modded card from the notorious Kingpin and he suggested I go with the EK block as the vregs get extremely hot when volt modded.
I like the looks of this block, but I need to consider the bigger picture. I guess I need some additional input. I'll inquire over on the GPU forum to see what other volt modders have found.
MrToad
06-04-2007, 09:55 PM
Sorry I'm just not Xtreme in the way some of you are :P
In my short experience in these forums, the difference seems to be "Xtreme on a tight budget" vs "Xtreme sitting on a pile of cash".
Let's face it, if you have the money to setup a proper second (or third) loop to cool things like the SB, the RAM, the VRegs... you might not rake the same benefits from it as from cooling the CPU and the GPU, but it won't hurt either.
IMHO the money spent vs performance gained ratio of cooling the SB or the RAM is very low, but I'm sitting on the "tight budget" section.
serialk11r
06-04-2007, 10:03 PM
In my short experience in these forums, the difference seems to be "Xtreme on a tight budget" vs "Xtreme sitting on a pile of cash".
Let's face it, if you have the money to setup a proper second (or third) loop to cool things like the SB, the RAM, the VRegs... you might not rake the same benefits from it as from cooling the CPU and the GPU, but it won't hurt either.
IMHO the money spent vs performance gained ratio of cooling the SB or the RAM is very low, but I'm sitting on the "tight budget" section.
I guess so!
I consider the TRUE Xtreme people to be not the people who just go out, buy the most expensive crap, get a cascade made or an LN2 pot, and start benching, but those who actually come up with the innovations, and apply them. But by that definition, there are going to be "Xtreme" people who ARE sitting in a pile of cash because cash always helps :)
MrToad
06-04-2007, 10:11 PM
Damn, :confused: I didn't know ppl didn't like their DD blocks. I thought Jeremy was making a killing with these.. Ah perception, perception.. Maybe I should publish a retraction and focus on the EK only.
The one I purchased did have a few flaws.
The finish was not very good (compared to other DD products, like the Maze4 I used on the defunct 680i board), the base had quite a few deep scratches, the machining on the channels was sloppy, and it had some screws/o-rings (the mounting ones, not the sealing ones :D ) missing.
None of the aforementioned "flaws" were a real show stopper, and they didn't compromise the safety of my rig; however, they are an indication of some problem in the QC with this product.
As someone else has pointed out, I blame the high demand due to the agreement with... duh!... I don't remember if it was BFG or EVGA, and (at the time) being the only full cover block available on the market.
Meeting deadlines and coping with a surge in demand are challenges that small companies find difficult to cope with, and more often than not involves outsourcing beyond your regular supply chain, which leads to problems like these.
alpha0ne
06-04-2007, 10:13 PM
open mouth, insert foot;)
I bet you believe in santa claus too.................tool :rolleyes:
I guess so!
I consider the TRUE Xtreme people to be not the people who just go out, buy the most expensive crap, get a cascade made or an LN2 pot, and start benching, but those who actually come up with the innovations, and apply them. But by that definition, there are going to be "Xtreme" people who ARE sitting in a pile of cash because cash always helps :)
You ever consider that some of us just do it for fun and enjoyment? I myself have nothing to prove, except to have fun.
hecktic
06-05-2007, 03:10 AM
from another thread..
We' have also tested extensively with volt mods, and our results are embodied in a 20250 score in 3D Marks O6 here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=1873908
Finally we have also tested with a Quad and SLI and (1) MCR120 !!!YES PEOPLE!!! and got a 17649 score here: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=2054649
The 20250 is not game stable. Just good enough for one good run. This is the single highest score on ambient water on the planet today (made top 20 in the hall of Fame); when your'e after a record your'e only interested in 7 mn of stability :-)
bah.... but i wanted to have a stable volt modded 8800gtx with this block.... game stable more importantly.... sigh.... well i suppose a dedicated loop means the fuzion gfx will work out.... sorry but i change my mind.... going with fuzion and enzotech bga ramsinks and swiftech mosfet sinks...
Hard H20
06-05-2007, 04:40 AM
You ever consider that some of us just do it for fun and enjoyment? I myself have nothing to prove, except to have fun.
:up:
Well said my friend. I'm having fun with a hobby that I enjoy. As far as sitting on a pile of cash, if you stay around here very long the pile quickly disappears. ;)
Oh yeah Ian, you're still a jerk. :p: :rofl:
:up:
Well said my friend. I'm having fun with a hobby that I enjoy. As far as sitting on a pile of cash, if you stay around here very long the pile quickly disappears. ;)
Oh yeah Ian, you're still a jerk. :p: :rofl:
Stop reminding me that I'm a jerk.. every time you do so, I double the number of radiators I use :)
Listen everyone, I water cool only for myself to admire my own handiwork. I really don't have much time to waste on frivolity, but I take pride in whatever I do. Otherwise, I would already have farmed out the computer building to Falcon Northwest. They build beautiful and highly overpriced machines, but their machines are top notch.
Its also one of the reasons why I don't like showing computers... I get nonsense like.. OMG.. you need cable management... OMG.. that looks so plain, you need to add blah blah color etc etc. I don't give a crap about how it looks. No, I don't need blue Pentosin or blue LED fans, and neither do I like those. I my machines the way they are, and that's all that matters.
MrToad
06-05-2007, 06:06 AM
I hope none of you took offense by the "pile of cash" comment.
It wasn't meant to be inflammatory in any way. It was used strictly for illustrative purposes.
Hard H20
06-05-2007, 06:33 AM
I hope none of you took offense by the "pile of cash" comment.
It wasn't meant to be inflammatory in any way. It was used strictly for illustrative purposes.
MrToad,
None taken. I was just poking Ian in the eye with a stick. I figured it was overdue. ;)
And I was shoving the stick back at Hard H20... he's the one flush with cash :)
OPPAINTER
06-05-2007, 07:22 AM
@Oppainter... Good overclock database here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144924
Thanks for the link.
Looks like my stock GTS does 684/1053 (real clocks). This is set at 692/1066.
My temps go from 40c idle to 45c load, 3d06 run.
This bad boy needs some voltage:D
OPP
Here's hoping that we'll soon see FC blocks in the sub $100 range.
working on it!
Thanks for the link.
Looks like my stock GTS does 684/1053 (real clocks). This is set at 692/1066.
My temps go from 40c idle to 45c load, 3d06 run.
This bad boy needs some voltage:D
OPP
:eek: how come YOUR gear always does better than MINE? :mad:
OPPAINTER
06-05-2007, 07:55 AM
:eek: how come YOUR gear always does better than MINE? :mad:
Because I'm a Master of Overclocking:D
How's my E6600 chip at 3950MHz? :D
OPP
phelan1777
06-05-2007, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the link.
Looks like my stock GTS does 684/1053 (real clocks). This is set at 692/1066.
My temps go from 40c idle to 45c load, 3d06 run.
This bad boy needs some voltage:D
OPP
NICE!
Sorry if I've missed something, but what's the pressure drop on this one compared to, say, the MCW60?
MrToad
06-05-2007, 03:27 PM
Sorry if I've missed something, but what's the pressure drop on this one compared to, say, the MCW60?
Significant:
Flow 0.5 1.0 1.5 GPM
Fuzion GFX 0.5 1.8 3.9 PSI
Stealth 0.9 3.6 7.8 PSI
MCW60 0.1 0.3 0.8 PSI
Source (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2228457&postcount=8)
The figures have been published by the relevant manufacturers.
hecktic
06-05-2007, 03:30 PM
Significant:
Flow 0.5 1.0 1.5 GPM
Fuzion GFX 0.5 1.8 3.9 PSI
Stealth 0.9 3.6 7.8 PSI
MCW60 0.1 0.3 0.8 PSI
Source (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2228457&postcount=8)
The figures have been published by the relevant manufacturers.
Mr.Toad FTW!!
Thank you sir ... I knew the stealth was too good to be true...
sbrehm72255
06-05-2007, 03:32 PM
I wonder how well the thing would work with a base from a standard APOGEE instead of the GT version???????? Just a idea, I have a few extra old APOGEE blocks around the house, Now all I need is a 8800 series card and the Stealth..............;)
hecktic
06-05-2007, 04:24 PM
I wonder how well the thing would work with a base from a standard APOGEE instead of the GT version???????? Just a idea, I have a few extra old APOGEE blocks around the house, Now all I need is a 8800 series card and the Stealth..............;)
Go for it...
one thing I don't understand is where this pressure drop is coming from if it uses the same copper pin plate and port configuration as the gtx cpu block?:confused:
does the stealth have less space between the cover and pins or could the copper plate be 90° out on the test block?:shrug:
Envydia007
06-06-2007, 02:45 AM
MCW60 is still the King.
Blergh, looks like I'll be going with the MCW60 for my 8800 upgrade then. I don't think my poor D5 can handle this very well. On another note; does the D-Tek unisink fit with the MCW60? Would be a relief to not use all those damn heatsinks.
MrToad
06-06-2007, 10:02 AM
Blergh, looks like I'll be going with the MCW60 for my 8800 upgrade then. I don't think my poor D5 can handle this very well. On another note; does the D-Tek unisink fit with the MCW60? Would be a relief to not use all those damn heatsinks.
OPPAINTER's (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2235494&postcount=47) post on the "sister" thread on the subject.
Although is missing one figure I think is relevant, which is how much his CPU temps went up after rigging the Stealth (as ranker pointed out), still is worth reading.
pie_uk
06-06-2007, 03:01 PM
wow restrictive !!! horrible !!
hecktic
06-06-2007, 04:44 PM
not that it matters to me at this point, just curious... what are the long term effects on your rad, pump, etc by using the swiftech blocks that have some aluminum in them... there must be something negative that results from a long term use such as a year or two.... which is my guess why copper is a better solution..
OPPAINTER
06-07-2007, 06:56 AM
OPPAINTER's (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2235494&postcount=47) post on the "sister" thread on the subject.
Although is missing one figure I think is relevant, which is how much his CPU temps went up after rigging the Stealth (as ranker pointed out), still is worth reading.
I am not sure about the CPU temps, I should have done some testing prior to rigging up the Stealth. I was doing some folding last month and my temps where in the 54c range average but they varied do to ambient (49-56). Right now if I turn on the folding thing I get about the same, 54c. So, there is no significant difference that I can see with my CPU.
But in all reality someone would need to do a valid test to really find out because my findings are far from accurate. :D
OPP
what are the long term effects on your rad, pump, etc by using the swiftech blocks that have some aluminum in them
Absolutely none. Any aluminum that is exposed to the loop is plated.
OPPAINTER
06-07-2007, 07:09 AM
not that it matters to me at this point, just curious... what are the long term effects on your rad, pump, etc by using the swiftech blocks that have some aluminum in them... there must be something negative that results from a long term use such as a year or two.... which is my guess why copper is a better solution..
Not sure, but I can tell you one thing, I get e-mails at work from people that still use this block, yes they have had it a long time and it still works for them.
http://swiftech.com/products/mcw5000.asp
As a matter of fact, the Swiftech secretary has an original Quiet Power at home, it was built over 4 years ago, and just like the energizer bunny, it’s still going :D
http://swiftech.com/products/FS020.asp
OPP
sbrehm72255
06-07-2007, 07:34 AM
I really don't understand all this worry about the aluminum tops on the Swiftech (or any others for that matter) blocks. If properly maintained there is no reason why the blocks can't perform in any loop for years on end. I've still got the original PolarFlo blocks as well as the TT series (to include the TT D4 Pump) and a set of the Swiftech 5000 series and not a single one has shown or caused a single problem in any of my loops over the many years that they have been in service. It's just a simple matter of "KNOWING" what you're doing and taking the correct preventive measures with your loop.
HiJon89
06-07-2007, 07:41 AM
I'm not using the Swiftech Stealth or Apogee GTX for my upcoming build but I would not be opposed to using them in the future at all. I am pretty much entrusting my entire computer to Swiftech. I'm using the Swiftech MCP355 Pump, Swiftech MCW60 GPU Block, and Swiftech MCR220 radiator. If Swiftech says the coating on the aluminum is sufficient, I'm inclined to take their word for it.
nikhsub1
06-07-2007, 07:45 AM
I am just mortified here. Are my PD numbers correct? At 1.5GPM I get:
Storm = 2.7 mH2O
Stealth = 5.5 mH2O
MCW60 = .6mH2O
The stealth is TWICE as restrictive as the Storm? WTF? The last thing I need is a restrictive GPU block... Think I'll stick with the MCW 60 with it's ~.6 mH2O at 1.5GPH.
sbrehm72255
06-07-2007, 07:56 AM
I still think someone (Swiftech) should try the original APOGEE base in the Stealth and see what kind of flow and performance that they can get out of the block. I'd do it if I had a 8800 series card, but I'm a little behind the time in regards to video cards............:(
Petra
06-07-2007, 12:25 PM
I still think someone (Swiftech) should try the original APOGEE base in the Stealth and see what kind of flow and performance that they can get out of the block. I'd do it if I had a 8800 series card, but I'm a little behind the time in regards to video cards............:(
Well, now that I have them in front of me, I'll check to see if the original Apogee base will fit...not sure how useful a base-change experiment would be, though (probably either won't fit or it'll just be worse all-around).
Scott: Hopefully I'll get a chance to put together those FuZion pressure drop curves for you today/tomorrow--I'm also planning on doing some curves for GPU blocks (Stealth vs. FuZion vs. MCW60 vs. EK-FC8800). Additionally, I have an optical flat on the way, so I could do some base comparisons (mainly for GPU blocks, heatsinks, and stuff).
Well, now that I have them in front of me, I'll check to see if the original Apogee base will fit...not sure how useful a base-change experiment would be, though (probably either won't fit or it'll just be worse all-around).
don't sweat it.. the MCW60 and old apogee plates have 4mm tall pins. won't fit in the stealth cavity which uses the GT/GTX (3mm tall) pins. now if you had a good lapping machine, you could put the 60 base plate there for an hour to grind 1mm off the pins, but then you'd have increased flow velocity and reduced wetted surfaced compared to GT/GTX resulting in worse performance.
we'll have live data stealth vs 60 impact on CPU temps on our forums tonight, and you can take off from there.
virtualrain
06-07-2007, 02:10 PM
I'm also planning on doing some curves for GPU blocks (Stealth vs. FuZion vs. MCW60 vs. EK-FC8800). Additionally, I have an optical flat on the way, so I could do some base comparisons (mainly for GPU blocks, heatsinks, and stuff).
Sounds good... I'm very interested in how the Stealth performs compared to the EK.
OPPAINTER
06-07-2007, 03:05 PM
I just got done with some testing. I wanted to find out if the there was any difference in CPU temperatures between having the Stealth in the loop as apposed to having the MCW60 in the loop.
Took a H2O-220 Ultra kit, used a GTX block on the CPU and ran the fans at 12V.
First had the stealth on a 8800GTX card, ran TATs for a long time, took readings.
Then simply took the Stealth off of the loop and put a MCW60 on instead. Left the GTX on the CPU with no interference at all during the swap.
Ran the same TATS test for a long time taking readings.
There was no difference in my CPU temps at all:D
OPP
erwinz
06-07-2007, 05:25 PM
looks nice.. :D
we'll have live data stealth vs 60 impact on CPU temps on our forums tonight, and you can take off from there.
Here are the results, as promised: http://www.swiftech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79
Petra
06-07-2007, 08:42 PM
Here are a few quick size comparison photos for you guys. Shown is the Stealth with MC21 heatsinks next to an MCW60 (w/D-Tek barbs) and a modified D-Tek UNI-Sink (yes, I know that the MCW60 has the wrong mounting plate installed... :rolleyes: ). I was rather surprised by how compact the Stealth is.
http://site.petrastechshop.com/images/fans/Stealth-topCompro.jpg
Quick note about this photo (below): the angle causes the Stealth to look a little shorter than it actually is and the MCW60/UNI-Sink a little taller.
http://site.petrastechshop.com/images/fans/Stealth-sideCompro.jpg
hecktic
06-07-2007, 09:39 PM
Petra,
That is a good observation.
fbmbirds
06-07-2007, 09:43 PM
yea petra you have a good eye with things like this good job
virtualrain
06-07-2007, 09:55 PM
What stands out to me is the difference in cooling mass over the voltage regulators. I guess this is a result of D-tek using that area to put most of the mass of the cooler since it's the only practical place to build any mass in order to accommodate a regular water block.
Keep in mind that any passive solution is going to be much bulkier than an actively air-cooled solution (i.e. stock GTX cooler) and certainly a water cooled solution (Stealth/EK/DD/etc).
Petra
06-07-2007, 11:44 PM
Keep in mind that any passive solution is going to be much bulkier than an actively air-cooled solution (i.e. stock GTX cooler) and certainly a water cooled solution (Stealth/EK/DD/etc).
Well, the Stealth is, essentially, a fusion (pardon the pun) of a traditional GPU block and the idea behind the UNI-Sink. Remember, water does not flow through the block's periphery, only over the GPU... as such, it needs to be an effective passive heatsink in addition to being an effective GPU waterblock. It's here, however, that I'll stop simply because I've decided to wait for the dust to settle before weighing in with my commentary on the design of the Stealth.
MrToad
06-08-2007, 03:49 AM
Out of sheer curiosity... can you remove the thermal tape from the Uni-Sink to use regular TIM? Or will it cause not to have good contact with the chips? (due to height difference, mounting design or w/e)
septim
06-08-2007, 05:42 AM
wonder who'd do an all copper unisink first...
hecktic
06-08-2007, 02:51 PM
wonder who'd do an all copper unisink first...
omg...great idea.... patent pending :clap: :p:
virtualrain
06-08-2007, 03:12 PM
Well, the Stealth is, essentially, a fusion (pardon the pun) of a traditional GPU block and the idea behind the UNI-Sink. Remember, water does not flow through the block's periphery, only over the GPU... as such, it needs to be an effective passive heatsink in addition to being an effective GPU waterblock. It's here, however, that I'll stop simply because I've decided to wait for the dust to settle before weighing in with my commentary on the design of the Stealth.
Agreed, but with the Stealth, the RAM benefits from heat conduction through the aluminum to the area cooled by the water making it a true hybrid as you say. I suspect in the absence of any airflow, the Stealth probably keeps the RAM sufficiently cool because of this.
Agreed, but with the Stealth, the RAM benefits from heat conduction through the aluminum to the area cooled by the water making it a true hybrid as you say. I suspect in the absence of any airflow, the Stealth probably keeps the RAM sufficiently cool because of this.
Memory modules temps run barely over water-temp :-)
pie_uk
06-10-2007, 01:12 PM
Here are the results, as promised: http://www.swiftech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79
nice but unless you're a member of that site you cant see whats what cough cough
nice but unless you're a member of that site you cant see whats what cough cough
Please see no hidden self promoting agenda here. This information is indeed located in the competitive testing section and this area is intentionnaly more restrictive (membership required) so as to avoid offending competitors. Granted this particular piece of info had no competitor data in it, but we plan on setting up a database in this section, and need to centralize all the data in the same area for convenience purposes.
Anemone
06-15-2007, 09:28 AM
Testing needed of course :)
I'm on a HR03+ atm and things are warmer than I'd like to see. It works though, peaking about 59-60C on the core (Everest) at 655(648)/1100. All the Enzo's stuck just fine.
Still like to see how temps shape up for these solutions. Funny that I like the MCW60 enough that in either solution Swiftech shows up as part of the answer.
:)