Most of you feed your Water Cooled Systems over a 1k watt PSU right [Read if you do]

[hecktic]

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1412/index.asp

most of you guys already knew that though if you are an XS forums member... at least I would think so....

I hope I have saved someones house from catching an electrical fire :yepp:

[Jedda]

Is that you awan?
Most of the folk here will have read that.

[hecktic]

Is that you awan?
Most of the folk here will have read that.

dam how did you know it was me?

[phcjpp]

Sigh - what about MCB's / RCD's - they take care of overloads quite safely and easily. That wiring looks like its from the dark ages. If I can find some energy I will post some pictures of our house wiring. It would amuse some of you - its certainly extreme. Just think about what we do to our pc's and apply that to a house's wiring :)


Chris

[Thasp]

I do not. I run 5 HDs, a 3.4 Ghz quad core, a 7800gt, watercooling, 2 gigs of ram, on my 510 - and it works just fine. :)

[MrToad]

Common sense, but we all need to be reminded of the bloody obvious from time to time.

When I moved with my partner, much to her dismay because she likes mess as much as she likes to be exfoliated with lava, I redid most of the wiring in the house, isolating every unfriendly (oven, microwave, fridge, washing machine, fluorescent lights, outdoors) and sensitive (computers, TV, stereo..) equipment in their own dedicated branches (thus effectively transforming the mains ring in a mains star ^^) with dedicated MCBs (and RCDs where necessary).

Previously the kitchen, studio and living room lighting, the fridge, the washing machine, and the outdoors appliances (pond pump, water filter, pebble pool, lawnmower sockets...) where all in the same ring... shared by the downstairs computer, with just a fuse and no RCD. Brilliant.

Needless to say, after the major transformation (which included replacing the old fuse cluster for a proper consumer unit) I invited my spark neighbour to inspect and check it thoroughly and give me the all clear.

When doing any kind of work at home that's not exchanging like for like, call a professional to inspect it afterwards. And if you are not 99% confident on your skills, call a professional BEFORE. In most cases it can prevent the worst day of your life, or the first day of your death.

[oqvist]

Sure hope I don´t need moer then my 850 zeus silverstone on my watercooling. However what line would you recommend I use my pump on? I have 3-4 for 8800 GTX and 1-2 for the CPU. Line 2 perhaps same as the 8-pin?

[HiJon89]

Stupid article. It doesn't matter if you have a 400W PSU or a 1200W PSU, your computer will only draw as much power as it needs.

[Frostbyte]

Stupid article. It doesn't matter if you have a 400W PSU or a 1200W PSU, your computer will only draw as much power as it needs.

Only when it is working correctly.;) It is the damnable malfunctions that get you. Went through a house fire back in '89, and it sucks. Even a little bit of prevention will get you most of the way to being bulletproof where this is concerned.

[MrToad]

Stupid article. It doesn't matter if you have a 400W PSU or a 1200W PSU, your computer will only draw as much power as it needs.

Hmmm... I don't see your point. I must have gone blind, dumb, or both.

It does matter if you put a 1000W power supply in your rig to meet your peak energy consumption demands. It doesn't matter if you buy it just because you didn't know what to do with those extra 250 quid.

If your rig peaks @950W, and you have the fridge (which can trigger at any time) and your microwave oven and an spare socket for the iron, chances are, eventually you'll burn the line.

[BenchZowner]

If your rig peaks @950W

Do you know what kind of rig do you need to have a peak of 950W ? :rofl:

[ originally thought that the emoticon would make the post sound funny, but it sounds offensive as well, no offense meant ]

[MrToad]

Do you know what kind of rig do you need to have a peak of 950W ? :rofl:

[ originally thought that the emoticon would make the post sound funny, but it sounds offensive as well, no offense meant ]

Well, in my particular case, which is nothing really OTT, my peak is 750W. This considering I'm not only powering the computer, I'm also powering the monitor, the printers (laser, inkjet and label), the decoder/amplifier, and the scanner.

Is not only what my computer, but also it's associated devices, consume.

[BenchZowner]

Take everything off the meter, and measure only your PC ( without the monitor ).

[MrToad]

Take everything off the meter, and measure only your PC ( without the monitor ).

What would be the point of that? I know that the computer alone seldom goes above 350W (which means it consumes about 300 if the efficiency figures of the PSU are accurate).

The point is, I have to be able to supply safely all the equipment connected to that particular socket at any given time.

[IanY]

I don't understand the point. The PSU only uses as much power as it needs. Having two 1kW PSUs is no more risky than having a 300 W PSU, and in fact is less risky.

[Polizei]

If your rig peaks @950W, and you have the fridge (which can trigger at any time) and your microwave oven and an spare socket for the iron, chances are, eventually you'll burn the line.

Not true. Circuit breakers or fuses are there not for the safety of your devices, but the safety of your house from fire. The breakers are there to keep you from drawing too many amps, thus heating up the wires in your house and causing the insulation to catch fire. The wires themselves are rated for more amps than the breaker is, so they are always operating within their rated limits.

[MrToad]

I don't understand the point. The PSU only uses as much power as it needs. Having two 1kW PSUs is no more risky than having a 300 W PSU, and in fact is less risky.

Well, I understand that a 300W PSU will never, ever, draw more than 360W from your mains. If your computer needs more than that, it will just starve the components and eventually die.

However, a 1000W PSU has the capacity to draw as much as 1200W from the line, if the components of your computer require it.

And that's powering the PC alone, without taking into account everything else that comes with it, which in 99% of the cases is connected to the very same socket.

[BenchZowner]

What would be the point of that? I know that the computer alone seldom goes above 350W (which means it consumes about 300 if the efficiency figures of the PSU are accurate).

The point is, I have to be able to supply safely all the equipment connected to that particular socket at any given time.

I was referring to the threads' title & content, and the first page of the 'article' :D [ and it's technical aspect... wondering the guy's electronics knowledge ]

[MrToad]

Not true. Circuit breakers or fuses are there not for the safety of your devices, but the safety of your house from fire. The breakers are there to keep you from drawing too many amps, thus heating up the wires in your house and causing the insulation to catch fire. The wires themselves are rated for more amps than the breaker is, so they are always operating within their rated limits.

Except when people have ingenious ideas, and stick a thick silver ring in the fuse holder because "it keeps breaking".

And no, this is not an imaginary or isolated incident.

[Polizei]

Except when people have ingenious ideas, and stick a thick silver ring in the fuse holder because "it keeps breaking".

And no, this is not an imaginary or isolated incident.

If someone has knowledge on how to bypass a safety device, they know what the consequences are, IMO.

[serialk11r]

Its f***ing hard for a PSU to draw that much power. The most power any computer you or I would use, unless it had tons of hard drives, draws 600W maybe a little more. Your PSU (if it was s***ty) would draw at most 800W from the wall. 6.5 amps will not blow the circuit, and that's not even continuous.

[MrToad]

Its f***ing hard for a PSU to draw that much power. The most power any computer you or I would use, unless it had tons of hard drives, draws 600W maybe a little more. Your PSU (if it was s***ty) would draw at most 800W from the wall. 6.5 amps will not blow the circuit, and that's not even continuous.

Absolutely right. There's no reason to worry. Just keep plugging everything in the same socket. The more, the merrier.

[k00lance]

I didn't read the article carefully, but it could be the Cold Cathode power inverter that caused the fire.

[serialk11r]

Absolutely right. There's no reason to worry. Just keep plugging everything in the same socket. The more, the merrier.

The only situation where you wouldn't want to do that is with a fatass cascade/autocascade drawing more than 1.xKW, in that case you would probably want to plug it into the 240V... and of course, machine tools and stuff that draw 1KW+, or other energy whoring appliances like dryers. I would not want to use a blow dryer with everything else on lol.

[HiJon89]

I know exactly what this article is talking about, one summer I had my rig running stability tests at full load (2x Prime95 and 3DMark05 on loop) with my 21" CRT on, along with my 5x 100W Harman Kardon Amp playing a movie on my 32" CRT TV with 2 air conditioners running all on the same circuit. Then someone tried to turn on the vacuum cleaner, and guess what happened! The circuit breaker flipped and my house didn't burn down (Sorry, I know it's anticlimactic :( )

[serialk11r]

I know exactly what this article is talking about, one summer I had my rig running stability tests at full load (2x Prime95 and 3DMark05 on loop) with my 21" CRT on, along with my 5x 100W Harman Kardon Amp playing a movie on my 32" CRT TV with 2 air conditioners running all on the same circuit. Then someone tried to turn on the vacuum cleaner, and guess what happened! The circuit breaker flipped and my house didn't burn down (Sorry, I know it's anticlimactic :( )

LOL yep that's exactly what happens. Once when I was in China (240V, so less resistance but still) 2 computers were on, the TV was on (thats 4A right there) then there was one air conditioner on that used 9A (13A) and then my dad turned on "the big one", a 7KW air conditioner and for some reason the breaker didn't flip until 20 minutes later.

[Polizei]

As I said before, fuses/circuit breakers are desgined to blow/pop before the wire insulation catches on fire due to large power draw.

[MrToad]

I know exactly what this article is talking about, one summer I had my rig running stability tests at full load (2x Prime95 and 3DMark05 on loop) with my 21" CRT on, along with my 5x 100W Harman Kardon Amp playing a movie on my 32" CRT TV with 2 air conditioners running all on the same circuit. Then someone tried to turn on the vacuum cleaner, and guess what happened! The circuit breaker flipped and my house didn't burn down (Sorry, I know it's anticlimactic :( )

Let's play a game...

1) Spot the RCD.

2) Spot the fuse cartridge that has a wire thick as your middle finger inside.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/403/jurle7.jpg

Solutions:

1) RCD? WTH is that? Is it edible?

2) Inty, Minty, tipsy, toe...

[Polizei]

I fail to see what youre trying to prove. That white thing with the switch on it might be an RCD and I dont see any fuse cartridges.

[MrToad]

I fail to see what youre trying to prove. That white thing with the switch on it might be an RCD and I dont see any fuse cartridges.

For your posts I thought you were a spark.

Anyway, the "white thing with a switch on it" is a MCB. All the rest are cartridge fuses. There's no RCD. The cartridges with the white dots are lighting fuses, the ones with the red dots socket fuses. One of them had a 3mm thick copper wire on it.

Besides, the whole thing, including the meter, is bolted to a wooden panel.

And this is an average installation that you can find in thousands of households.

Until today, if I'd find something like this in the house of someone I cared about, I'd have worried. But after reading through this thread I understand there was no need to, and I was just being silly.

[NaeKuh]

LOL, nice article, but i already kinda realized this when i figured.... 700W OCZ gamextreme + 750W Silencer PCnC.

We had massive electrical wiring done to meet with standards of our house. So my room was rewired with me personally telling the electrician EXACTLY whats going to be pluged + some headroom for extras.


But yeah, i would expect a wire to get burned out with today's new systems.

[Polizei]

For your posts I thought you were a spark.

Spark? You mean electrician?

Not really, going to college for electrical engineering though.


I have never seen a fuse panel or anything that looks like that before, and I have seen quite a few.

[MrToad]

Spark? You mean electrician?

Yup.


I have never seen a fuse panel or anything that looks like that before, and I have seen quite a few.

This one actually looks all right compared to some of the ones I've seen. This was in a post WWII house (I just took the pic for before and after purposes, and to have a laugh about the great job the engineer of british gas did changing the meters), in Georgian and Victorian houses they're even "better".

[Movieman]

I think what needs to be understood is the whole electrical circuitry.
When I set up my little "workstation" area to house 3 PC's I had an electrician come in and install a dedicated 30a/110v line.
Straight from the panel to the outlet, nothing else on it.
10g copper romex and cost a grand total of $175.00 to get done.
I sleep better knowing that the circuit is total overkill for the draw through it.

[IanY]

I have a whole separate circuit and fuse box for my computers.

[ranker]

I think what needs to be understood is the whole electrical circuitry.
When I set up my little "workstation" area to house 3 PC's I had an electrician come in and install a dedicated 30a/110v line.
Straight from the panel to the outlet, nothing else on it.
10g copper romex and cost a grand total of $175.00 to get done.
I sleep better knowing that the circuit is total overkill for the draw through it.

I think I'm going to do the same. Can you tell what I need to explicitly tell the electrician?

[Polizei]

This one actually looks all right compared to some of the ones I've seen. This was in a post WWII house (I just took the pic for before and after purposes, and to have a laugh about the great job the engineer of british gas did changing the meters), in Georgian and Victorian houses they're even "better".

My house was built in the late 1940s, with 2 additions, one in the 1970s and another in 1993. Here are some pictures of the two breaker panels in my house. The second picture is a sub-panel, which controls everything in the kitchen, living room and dining room. Major appliances (1800w microwave, refrigerator, oven (even though its natural gas) are on their own circuits on the main panel. The sub-panel has 3x 15A circuits feeding it from the main panel in the basement. Both panels are clearly labeled with what each breaker controls.

Main Panel (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/toms918/Misc/MainPanel.jpg)
Sub-Panel (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/toms918/Misc/SubPanel.jpg)

I dont have anything to worry about with my computer in my room - Printer, 19" LCD, computer with 500w Antec, lamp, and a cell phone charger. I guess I can count the ceiling fan/light combination too. No where near the 15A max for this room.

[Polizei]

I think I'm going to do the same. Can you tell what I need to explicitly tell the electrician?

Just tell him you wish to have a dedicated 120v, 30A circuit wired into whatever your computer room is.

[Movieman]

Just tell him you wish to have a dedicated 120v, 30A circuit wired into whatever your computer room is.

Yuppers..I orginally went 30a as I have a APC-SmartUPS 3000 that pulls 26a on 110 line when starting up..Provides 2250w of battery backup.
http://www.cdwg.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=079105

Have an issue with it so it's sitting on a bench.

[hecktic]

And now for the twist factor... the battery backups and UPS that we all run with todays high end systems.

I was really not thinking right until I read that article myself because I was running:

850 watt TT PSU rated at 89% efficiency
2000VA UPS w/ AVR 1200watt

and then some misc. items like a modem on its own power source and some room fans...

everything was fine and dandy for weeks as I used to leave the PC running 24/7 and if it was off for some time the UPS would always remain on.

Now on a 15amp circuit branch Im practically pushing to the limit here of 80% efficiency which from that artcile is 1440watts.

You would think I would be still safely under that rating but here is where it gets shocking.

In the rooms right next to mine there are 2 generic and old HP desktops with flatscreen LCDs 15" and a 17", infact the 15" was a very old but the brand of the 15" is LG and that LCD I recall about 7 yrs ago cost around $900 (dont ask why I bought it) and so these two rooms have a 350watt PSU and a 310watt plus some room fans and lights.

Now its more than likely these 3 rooms are using their own 15amp circuit branch, or I should say sharing the same 15amp circuit branch since this house was built in 1970s probly late 1960s though and out here in California during the summer the 2nd story of this house is basically an oven and the air conditioning is the only thing that can fight the heat so to speak.

That being said, the air conditioner was not running last week since one of the pvc pipes that the cool water runs through was broken, needed to be repaired, and all of the above mentioned electronic appliances were running well lets just say it was a scary result lol.

In the room with the UPS I mentioned above and the 850 watt PSU, the power outlet cover had popped off or more like blew off in half I should say all of sudden in the middle of the day when the heat was just building up....

Obviously this is a sign of an overload I think... and thats when that article popped in my head and I though it might be time to call an electrician.

[Tuppen^^]

When I read that, I thought: "H**L I'm glad I live in Norway"

Since we got 230v here, and that would increase the safety, since my rig don't draw as many amps as it would have done in USA, or do I speak bu*lsh*t now?

[MrToad]

When I read that, I thought: "H**L I'm glad I live in Norway"

Since we got 230v here, and that would increase the safety, since my rig don't draw as many amps as it would have done in USA, or do I speak bu*lsh*t now?

Repeat with me... Ohmmmmmm Mani Padme Hum

Now memorize this: volts x amps = watts

Which basically means that you can wh0r3 nearly 3kW from a standard 13A socket.

[NickS]

This is a stupid article. Most PC's don't draw NEAR 600w continuous, and if they do, wow nice PC.

Furthermore, if the correct wiring is installed along with proper connections being made, you can't burn your house down. That's what circuit breakers are for.

[NickS]

My house was built in the late 1940s, with 2 additions, one in the 1970s and another in 1993. Here are some pictures of the two breaker panels in my house. The second picture is a sub-panel, which controls everything in the kitchen, living room and dining room. Major appliances (1800w microwave, refrigerator, oven (even though its natural gas) are on their own circuits on the main panel. The sub-panel has 3x 15A circuits feeding it from the main panel in the basement. Both panels are clearly labeled with what each breaker controls.

Main Panel (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/toms918/Misc/MainPanel.jpg)
Sub-Panel (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/toms918/Misc/SubPanel.jpg)

I dont have anything to worry about with my computer in my room - Printer, 19" LCD, computer with 500w Antec, lamp, and a cell phone charger. I guess I can count the ceiling fan/light combination too. No where near the 15A max for this room.

My house was built in the mid 20's. We still have some old knob'n'tube wiring! (AFAIK it's just for the wall sconces on the 2nd floor and a few outlets on the first floor.) :shocked:

All I know is we have 4-5 generations of wiring in the house, on one breaker that was installed in the 70's or 80's and has been added onto since then. Got dual 100's coming in to the house.

Oh and for sht's and giggles I measured my wall outlet that powers my A/C, HEPA air cleaner and tower tri lamp.

A/C off --> 121.3v. A/C on --> 119.4v.

[Frostbyte]

lol...man, this IS getting extreme. Now we have to buy a new house with good wiring and fuse panel as an accessory to our computer!

[ranker]

lol...man, this IS getting extreme. Now we have to buy a new house with good wiring and fuse panel as an accessory to our computer!

This ain't xtremesystems for nothing. What once was a hobby is now a way of life.

[Jedda]

Yeah, go for it.
Contemplating setting up a solar battery bank to provide total control of the stuff my baby is fed. Battery backup atm but "who knows where that power has been"?

[K404]

Well, I understand that a 300W PSU will never, ever, draw more than 360W from your mains. If your computer needs more than that, it will just starve the components and eventually die.


OCP says otherwise....it`ll probably shut down the PC to prevent damage.

If the PSU has no OCP and you decide to push your luck, I hope you like sudden noises and burning smells.


General: Isnt rewiring a house without full qualifications illegal?

[phcjpp]

Anyone can rewire a house in the UK you just need to get it Part P certified by a qualified electrician. That involves checking all the points and the consumer unit etc. Further, almost anything you do to the wiring in a house needs sign off. You can still wire a plug but not too much else!!

Details here (http://www.partp.co.uk/) ...

Chris

[MrToad]

General: Isnt rewiring a house without full qualifications illegal?

As Chris points out, in "domestic" installations only exchanging like for like doesn't need "signing off".

However, you are entitled to carry out any electrical work you desire in your household, providing that you have it inspected/reported afterwards.

Mind you, Scotland may have it's own regulations, so check with your local authority first.

[NaeKuh]

I think what needs to be understood is the whole electrical circuitry.
When I set up my little "workstation" area to house 3 PC's I had an electrician come in and install a dedicated 30a/110v line.
Straight from the panel to the outlet, nothing else on it.
10g copper romex and cost a grand total of $175.00 to get done.
I sleep better knowing that the circuit is total overkill for the draw through it.

dave i think thats exactly what my electrician did. HE smiled when he installed it and said dont worry you can add a third.

[hecktic]

kinda of a stupid comment IMO about something that one should always keep in mind, and the very thing that leads to house fires. Too many plugs on the same breaker, and wire running to it is asking for trouble.

just becuase the gear isn't drawing enough current to start a fire now when the circuit is over loaded with devices, doesn't mean that it can't in the future when everything happens at the wrong time.

And if a fire breaks out on your home, don't think for a second you'll be all clam, cool and collected. you can't imagine the panic that sets in.

so I thinks it's a great article, and something that bares repeating from time to time.

thanks to the poster,

andyc

Yep, you are right.

And as the poster, thank you :)

Looks like Im going to be getting a dedicated 30amp to my room with the soon to be 5 loop water cooled system with the specs I mentioned earlier in this thread.