Can you trust a DDC?

[ferrari_freak]

With all the tragedies that have been occurring lately, I had a thought, and I think that a lot of people going into water cooling or just looking for a pump in general will have this question going through their minds. Is it worth the risk to get a DDC? Is it better to get something more reliable such as a D5/MCP655 even if it isn't as "xtreme" because in the end, it doesn't matter how xtreme your rig is if it's fried. Discuss. My personal opinion is to go with a D5 or dual D5 if you have the cash.

Usama aka Ferrari Freak

[_G_]

Im running a single ddc ATM but i don't trust it for 24/7 unattended service.
Dual ddc's appear to be the popular setup for redundancy and performance

[[XC]Atomicpineapple]

I've just bought 2 DDCs to replace my 2 D5s. I'm trying to fit a fair ammount of stuff in a V1000 so the space saving is worth it for me and I still have the same 2 pump redundancy.

[Grinch]

love mine...

[MrToad]

It really would come down to each and every specific scenario.

Assuming that we can exclude single pump deployments from mission critical applications, where IMHO redundancy is a must, if your computer runs unattended for long periods of time and you haven't/won't put safety measures in place (which basically comes down to automatically shut down the system if flow/revs/power consumption reaches zero, I don't believe in temperature based shut down, unless the threshold is very low, because the component has already overheated before the system stops, and without a cooling system in operation, the component is going to remain hot for a period of time that is too long for my comfort), I'd go for the D5 over the modded DDC.

If you are considering dual pumps, you've already reduced the odds that would make you wary of using the modded DDC over the D5.

And in any case, having a w/c system that runs unattended without means to shut it down safely in case of pump failure is not very clever. Any pump, given enough time, will eventually fail.

So, summarizing, unless you deliberately want to ignore common sense, and leave the welfare of your computer in the hands of lady luck, choosing the D5 over the modded DDC on the grounds of reliability is somehow self-defeating.

[clone38]

As most intel pc will shut down it the cpu get`s to hot you shouldnt need to worry if the pump`s on the cpu loop,this has happened to me a few weeks back,computer shutdown with no damage to the cpu.
I have scince then bought a t blancer and temp sensors that fit to my EK 150 res`s just to be on the safe side.

[serialk11r]

D5s break too, and no D5 fanboy can deny that. For reliability buy a high quality pump MADE to last long, like an iwaki. Actually, as IanY says, you can't trust the pump. Always have multiple pumps just in case. Of course not everyone can afford that, but for most people, I think hoping that your pump is one of the 19/20 pumps that DONT break...

[YugenM]

Get an Eheim ;)

[SharkerSk]

Get an Eheim ;)

Copy that .... I have Eheim 1048 running 24/7 without any problems :D
I trust to these perfect german pump ;)

[serialk11r]

Get an Eheim ;)

Weaksauce pump...not IanY's taste :P

[weihk]

With all the tragedies that have been occurring lately, I had a thought, and I think that a lot of people going into water cooling or just looking for a pump in general will have this question going through their minds. Is it worth the risk to get a DDC? Is it better to get something more reliable such as a D5/MCP655 even if it isn't as "xtreme" because in the end, it doesn't matter how xtreme your rig is if it's fried. Discuss. My personal opinion is to go with a D5 or dual D5 if you have the cash.

Usama aka Ferrari Freak

just like buying a car then, is it a good idea to buy a Enzo, drive it at 6th gear@8000rpm for 24hrs a day? would the Enzo engine die? or would a Scania Truck be better?......all things are bound to break down one way or the other, just depends on luck....


It really would come down to each and every specific scenario.

Assuming that we can exclude single pump deployments from mission critical applications, where IMHO redundancy is a must, if your computer runs unattended for long periods of time and you haven't/won't put safety measures in place (which basically comes down to automatically shut down the system if flow/revs/power consumption reaches zero, I don't believe in temperature based shut down, unless the threshold is very low, because the component has already overheated before the system stops, and without a cooling system in operation, the component is going to remain hot for a period of time that is too long for my comfort), I'd go for the D5 over the modded DDC.

If you are considering dual pumps, you've already reduced the odds that would make you wary of using the modded DDC over the D5.

And in any case, having a w/c system that runs unattended without means to shut it down safely in case of pump failure is not very clever. Any pump, given enough time, will eventually fail.

So, summarizing, unless you deliberately want to ignore common sense, and leave the welfare of your computer in the hands of lady luck, choosing the D5 over the modded DDC on the grounds of reliability is somehow self-defeating.

good point! it proves im a very dumb with no common sense! because i had ran my DDC for 24/7 for the last 10months! i must be the dumbest tw@t in your books! damn that makes me feel good.....


D5s break too, and no D5 fanboy can deny that. For reliability buy a high quality pump MADE to last long, like an iwaki. Actually, as IanY says, you can't trust the pump. Always have multiple pumps just in case. Of course not everyone can afford that, but for most people, I think hoping that your pump is one of the 19/20 pumps that DONT break...

straight to the point....(not commenting the iwaki or what not...i've never used them!), all things break, all things have a risk, if everyone is being a sizzy regarding if their pump is going to die due to whatever reasons, then they are best not going for watercooling......

all IMHO......thanks

[IanY]

Yeah... I like to redline Enzos 24/7 lol :D

Its all computer hardware... they are all unreliable... just assume that they will die at some point and prepare for that contingency. If they are super reliable, do you think they would be priced at $100 ?

I am 100% sure that Iwakis die too.. with the same frequency. You will never hear it because (1) much fewer people have Iwakis,and (2) nobody would want to admit it.

The moreexpe3nsive the car, the more time spent in the garage... why? Because everything electrical and mechanical dies.. and the harder you use it, the more you rev it, the more likely it will die.

[NaeKuh]

Well i got worried about all the DDC failures. Had this been another forum, id probably would of ignored it and thought people error, then mechanical error. But seeing how some well known watercooling people are running into DDC-2 errors, it has to be mechanical.

I dont think alex, or anyone knows the real reason to why they fail. Its been a mystery. I got worried about this problem and decided to get rid of mine. So i have a RD-30 instead now.

[MrToad]

i must be the dumbest tw@t in your books! damn that makes me feel good.....

Dear Mr Weihk:

Your interest in the dumbest tw@t in our books position is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately, due to the large number of applicants we are unable to extend you an offer at this time.

However, we will keep your CV on our records, just in case George W Bush, Bono, David Beckham or the Pope decide to suffer sudden yet horrid deaths.

We wish you the best of luck in future endeavours.

Sincerely yours:

His Toadness

[Terryb47]

It's not _that_ tragic, but it does makes people paranoid. Afterall when you buy a quality pump you expect it to be reliable.

I'm one of them unlucky DDC2 owners, my first one broke down within a week, (I was totally sick of it because I ordered from overseas, sending the bloody pump back cost me $30 extra) my replacement DDC has been running for a month now though, but I don't keep my system running anymore when I go to work. As soon as there's a newer better pump that's affordable I'll replace my DDC2.

[weihk]

Dear Mr Weihk:

Your interest in the dumbest tw@t in our books position is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately, due to the large number of applicants we are unable to extend you an offer at this time.

However, we will keep your CV on our records, just in case George W Bush, Bono, David Beckham or the Pope decide to suffer sudden yet horrid deaths.

We wish you the best of luck in future endeavours.

Sincerely yours:

His Toadness

WHAT?!:eek: IMPOSSIBLE! surly i MUST be in that book for SURE!

you telling me im NOT in the same league as George W Bush, Bono, David Beckham or the Pope? damn.....not only i didnt become a clever tw@t by commenting in this thread.....i couldnt even be in the same league as those people.....cr@p.....and i thought i was worst then them....ahwell

(BTW, i saw your wicked MOD in another forum, you planning to make anymore changes to your TT Armor?)

[[XC] DragonOrta]

Most of the DDC-2 deaths I have seen were accompanied by needing a good tap to get the pump started prior to it dying.

[thunderstruck!]

And my DDC-2 has been going strong for over 10 months.

[Sparky]

Hasn't it been reported that the starting current is very high on these DDC's? I'm wondering if they die more often in a system that they start/stop a lot than in a system run 24/7. Not sure on this though. Also I hear more of DDC2 deaths more often than DDC1 (maybe because they are more popular again) but I wonder if it is current-related again. So I got a DDC1, all I need for a fuzion and MCW60 anyway :) And I have this semi-baseless hope that it will improve my reliability factor lol :p:

[MrToad]

Drifted completely off-topic:


WHAT?!:eek: IMPOSSIBLE! surly i MUST be in that book for SURE!

Nuop. Sorry. Leaving the DDC running unattended with no other safety but the MB's temp shutdown (providing it has any) doesn't even tickle my idiotometer.

So many prominent people have put the idiocy threshold so high, that we, mere pedestrians, have little to no chance to join the club.


BTW, i saw your wicked MOD in another forum, you planning to make anymore changes to your TT Armor?

There's many changes planned, involving a redesigned back, some new W/C components (Swifty Stealth :slobber: ), revised loop and some more *bling* factor (let's face it, it looks rather dull at the moment). Unfortunately my bank account has a completely different opinion on the matter.

[YugenM]

Weaksauce pump...not IanY's taste :P

"Weaksauce" pump that can reliably run 24/7 for years on end, or Supah-Leet pump that might rape my PC at any moment...

...the reliable one, please.

If/when the rest of my stuff arrives at my doorstep (damn you, Aquatuning) and I have my watercooling loop set up, the first thing getting switched out is going to be the DDC-2, followed by the Innovatek GPU block.

[[cTx] Nooc]

I've had a D5 now for almost 9 months now, and I hope it will be a boy...lol :D

[weihk]

Drifted completely off-topic:



Nuop. Sorry. Leaving the DDC running unattended with no other safety but the MB's temp shutdown (providing it has any) doesn't even tickle my idiotometer.

So many prominent people have put the idiocy threshold so high, that we, mere pedestrians, have little to no chance to join the club.



There's many changes planned, involving a redesigned back, some new W/C components (Swifty Stealth :slobber: ), revised loop and some more *bling* factor (let's face it, it looks rather dull at the moment). Unfortunately my bank account has a completely different opinion on the matter.

blah.....after all these and i STILL am not in the 'book of tw@t'.....bum...

BTW. how on earth did you manage to get that piece of delrin top? im been looking for ages but still donno who can provide me one......damn!

anyway, WICKED mod mate, love it!

[septim]

sparky i agree, the more often you power off/on your system the faster pump would die, thats why if ever there's power out, i make sure that when i power on pc that iam there to check if the ddc impeller is spinning. been 6 months now almost 24/7, besides a few tap tap tap last october when it was new and a little shy stalling...

now if only they or we figure out how to avoid that initial current draw that seems to be frying these ddcs....

*hardware seller: note on most flourescents today die pretty soon, because of turning them on and off (like in a comfort room), but leave a light on for 8hours continous a day (office space), they'll tend to last longer*

[serialk11r]

Look, all electric motors will draw more current when they start up due to inertia. There is no avoiding it. And starting up is a very brief process. There is no data that shows us starting your DDC up does damage. Sure extra current means more resistance but we need to think realistically, does the pump heat up enough to receive damage from this extra bit of heat?
YugenM, there ARE reliable strong pumps. DDC and D5 happen to be not reliable. But who said watercooling was restricted to those pumps? :D Think bigger, Iwaki :) panworld :)

[Sparky]

That's true serialk11r, but if the design has a flaw in is someplace, a weak point, it could get damaged by that brief current draw. I'm just thinking out loud is all :)

[YugenM]

Think bigger, Iwaki :) panworld :)

I've looked at both Iwaki and Panworld in the past, when piecing together my loop.

Neither are effectively inaudible (or even quiet), therefore negating the sole purpose I am watercooling for.

When I bought the bastard DDC-2, I thought it was the 9W version, since the seller thought it was too.

Opened it up a couple days earlier, and "Dayummmmmmmmm!!! Red impeller!"

[serialk11r]

I've looked at both Iwaki and Panworld in the past, when piecing together my loop.

Neither are effectively inaudible (or even quiet), therefore negating the sole purpose I am watercooling for.

When I bought the bastard DDC-2, I thought it was the 9W version, since the seller thought it was too.

Opened it up a couple days earlier, and "Dayummmmmmmmm!!! Red impeller!"

lol, so you're aim is for ultimate quiet? You can undervolt pumps...to a certain extent. RD20 can be undervolted to something like 17V I think...should be pretty quiet. You CAN make a DDC-2 quiet, it just takes some erm...time? As in make a little box for it and pour mineral oil in.

[YugenM]

lol, so you're aim is for ultimate quiet? You can undervolt pumps...to a certain extent. RD20 can be undervolted to something like 17V I think...should be pretty quiet. You CAN make a DDC-2 quiet, it just takes some erm...time? As in make a little box for it and pour mineral oil in.

http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p1700_DDC-Tank.html

It comes with decoupling doohickeys, it will hopefully be sufficient.

Haven't bothered to figure out how much of the noise from my jet engine Seagate 7200.10 is airborne(a.k.a. whatever's left after it is decoupled), so that's going to be the next challenge.

After my bank account recovers from the traumatic experience of being emptied (paper route+PA120.2=BAAAAAAD), I'll get around to making a case, seeing as I already drew up a blueprint.

(my perception of "quiet" is radically different from most other people here; I spend most of my time on www.silentpcreview.com, had a three-fan passive-GPU rig before I switched out almost everything, and I play the piano so my ears are a lot more sensitive.)

[serialk11r]

http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p1700_DDC-Tank.html

It comes with decoupling doohickeys, it will hopefully be sufficient.

Haven't bothered to figure out how much of the noise from my jet engine Seagate 7200.10 is airborne(a.k.a. whatever's left after it is decoupled), so that's going to be the next challenge.

After my bank account recovers from the traumatic experience of being emptied (paper route+PA120.2=BAAAAAAD), I'll get around to making a case, seeing as I already drew up a blueprint.

(my perception of "quiet" is radically different from most other people here; I spend most of my time on www.silentpcreview.com, had a three-fan passive-GPU rig before I switched out almost everything, and I play the piano so my ears are a lot more sensitive.)

Heh my ears are very sensitive too, people here were like "man, I have 6 yate loons running 12V and I can't hear them" when I got the fans, I thought they sounded like jets taking off LOL. I've ghetto modded my hdd to be silent, and I'm trying to figure out a way to use enermax marathon fans to shut this stupid computer up. I myself play 2 instruments as of now, and I've played 4 before.

[YugenM]

Heh my ears are very sensitive too, people here were like "man, I have 6 yate loons running 12V and I can't hear them" when I got the fans, I thought they sounded like jets taking off LOL. I've ghetto modded my hdd to be silent, and I'm trying to figure out a way to use enermax marathon fans to shut this stupid computer up. I myself play 2 instruments as of now, and I've played 4 before.

I played a trombone in band until I quit this year.

All I play now is piano (currently ARCT, passed Gr.10 last January with 90%)

[serialk11r]

I played a trombone in band until I quit this year.

All I play now is piano (currently ARCT, passed Gr.10 last January with 90%)

REALLY?????? damn I play trombone too...I never thought I would meet someone else who does. :D Band sucks, cuz its like boring and erm, everyone sucks, (except me :D and some others)
I play piano also, I happen to be wayyyy better at piano, but I don't do any of those rubbish test thingies.
Sorry to hijack this thread :p

Anyways back on topic, the enermax marathon fans show great hope in my eyes because they have no bearing friction due to the magnetic bearings. I'm hoping to be able to mod it so they can run 16V or something, so they'll push a little more air but still be silent.

[Holst]

Can somebody post some links to these DCC faliures if they have a minute.

On 56k its a slow process searching threads for me :)

Is it just one or two faliures leading to irrational forum panic, or is there a genuine fault?

As for the off topic silence discution.
Nothing beats a submerged eheim for quiet.
I was running a 1250 and it was impossible for me to tell if it was on or off when submerged in the resevoire (hanging on strings)
They are bigger, and less powerfull, But very reliable and quiet.

[septim]

sparky, agree again on that point, maybe if designed with better initial capacitors and what nots that make em run...
*especially true for those who power on/off their PCs most of the time.

Holst make that a request to insert pics compressed to document size for 56k users...

and maybe a poll to boot:
1. ddc died because of frequent power on/off
2. ddc died because of 24/7 running

[YugenM]

REALLY?????? damn I play trombone too...I never thought I would meet someone else who does. :D Band sucks, cuz its like boring and erm, everyone sucks, (except me :D and some others)
I play piano also, I happen to be wayyyy better at piano, but I don't do any of those rubbish test thingies.
Sorry to hijack this thread :p

Anyways back on topic, the enermax marathon fans show great hope in my eyes because they have no bearing friction due to the magnetic bearings. I'm hoping to be able to mod it so they can run 16V or something, so they'll push a little more air but still be silent.

Serial! Dude! You have PM's disabled!

[septim]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144190
he's rather busy at the moment...

[NaeKuh]

"Weaksauce" pump that can reliably run 24/7 for years on end, or Supah-Leet pump that might rape my PC at any moment...

...the reliable one, please.

If/when the rest of my stuff arrives at my doorstep (damn you, Aquatuning) and I have my watercooling loop set up, the first thing getting switched out is going to be the DDC-2, followed by the Innovatek GPU block.

get both worlds and buy a RD-30

A supah leet pump that will pump harder and stronger, and most definitely longer then the DDC-2 will by a landslide. :D

[Sparky]

get both worlds and buy a RD-30

A supah leet pump that will pump harder and stronger, and most definitely longer then the DDC-2 will by a landslide. :D

Also costs 4x the price or more for the pump and PSU for it, and sounds like it is fun finding one too :/

[ranker]

Is the RD-30 better than the MD-30?

[septim]

size wise yes i think...

[YugenM]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144190
he's rather busy at the moment...

He PM'd me for my e-mail, and I couldn't reply ;)


get both worlds and buy a RD-30

A supah leet pump that will pump harder and stronger, and most definitely longer then the DDC-2 will by a landslide. :D

But is it quieter? I prioritize that before performance...

[NaeKuh]

Also costs 4x the price or more for the pump and PSU for it, and sounds like it is fun finding one too :/

ahem... i dont think i pm'd you the price for it.

And no its not even 4x the price. I am not going to say prices on here, but plenty have pm'd and it was cheap enough for _G_ to get 2. :]

For now im going to keep the price hush hush. But if you dont believe me, wait and see what price alex charges for them. You'll honestly be suprised.


He PM'd me for my e-mail, and I couldn't reply ;)



But is it quieter? I prioritize that before performance...

I cant answer this question right now. But when i got everything all setup, i'll let you know. Also i dont intend on running it the full 24V. I hear 18-19V is a good lvl to put these guys on.