My decent into madness…

[o2bme]

Sorry, this got long:

It seemed to start simply enough. I was reading a thread where Movieman was helping someone build his dual xeon machine and he started telling him about why he should be crunching. So I signed up and quickly had boinc running; it was easy - too easy you see that’s how they get you – leave you with a feeling that there should be more to it!

The very next day I was told a close friends father had cancer. So I started loading it on everything I could and now have 4 machines in my house and actually put it on 2 of my company’s development servers hosted in KC that were not being used very much. Yet with all this I am barely if at all going to make the personal goal I set for myself of 100k points in the 1st 30 days.

But evidently I have caught the bug and it’s just not enough – And it does not help reading about this powerful server or that configuration getting 25k/day! :slobber: So looking to do more I have decided I can use some of the space in the KC rack to put some real servers together and dedicate them to Boinc’ing (which is much more fun to say than folding).

Now with my schedule it could take up to 30 days or more to get this implemented, but the plan is to dedicate up to 10u initially. I thought I would put 10 used IBM blades in there, however research and wisdom gained (read: Movieman) have convinced me I should build out newer machines and with the same money get MUCH more performance.

So with 1u or 2u units I can build 5-10 servers and get them housed in the datacenter with electricity and cooling provided, but I won’t be able to water cool so OC will be limited.

So:
1st question is memory: Is 1 or 2 gigs enough?
2nd CPU: Q6600 vs. X3220 (vs. Clovers?)

[DDTUNG]

Welcome to the madness.

X3220 is equivalent to Q6600, except that it's supposed to be binned higher. You can get away with 1 Gig but 2 Gigs will be better for running certain projects.

DDTUNG:cool:

[o2bme]

Thanks DDTUNG,

You guys have a pretty great community here (or do you prefer support group?)

So 2 gigs and given the close price, the X3220 sounds like a better pick over q6600. There is no dual X3220, right? That would be the Clovers & they are 2x / chip and 4x if you go dual.

Can the X3220 OC on air at all?

[[XC] serlv]

Yes, very much so...

They get hot, though. Very hot. So have very good air for the best results. Think Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme or Tuniq Tower 120.

[DDTUNG]

The X3220 is higher binned than the Q6600 which means it runs cooler, as evidenced by the generally lower default Vcore. You can expect stable OC at around 3.5-3.6G with a top aircooler.

DDTUNG:cool:

[Movieman]

Sorry, this got long:

It seemed to start simply enough. I was reading a thread where Movieman was helping someone build his dual xeon machine and he started telling him about why he should be crunching. So I signed up and quickly had boinc running; it was easy - too easy you see that’s how they get you – leave you with a feeling that there should be more to it!

The very next day I was told a close friends father had cancer. So I started loading it on everything I could and now have 4 machines in my house and actually put it on 2 of my company’s development servers hosted in KC that were not being used very much. Yet with all this I am barely if at all going to make the personal goal I set for myself of 100k points in the 1st 30 days.

But evidently I have caught the bug and it’s just not enough – And it does not help reading about this powerful server or that configuration getting 25k/day! :slobber: So looking to do more I have decided I can use some of the space in the KC rack to put some real servers together and dedicate them to Boinc’ing (which is much more fun to say than folding).

Now with my schedule it could take up to 30 days or more to get this implemented, but the plan is to dedicate up to 10u initially. I thought I would put 10 used IBM blades in there, however research and wisdom gained (read: Movieman) have convinced me I should build out newer machines and with the same money get MUCH more performance.

So with 1u or 2u units I can build 5-10 servers and get them housed in the datacenter with electricity and cooling provided, but I won’t be able to water cool so OC will be limited.

So:
1st question is memory: Is 1 or 2 gigs enough?
2nd CPU: Q6600 vs. X3220 (vs. Clovers?)
You do know that it's not fair to have a 55 year old guy read this at 5:08am.
You could give me heart failure at learning that someone really heard what I was trying to say in that thread.
My thanks for that.

Let me try and answer your questions as best I can.
First you have to understand that I'm someone that has liked dual socket machines from back when single sockets were single core and the duals were just plain smoother to use.
Not the pure speed of the single sockets but smoother.

Now we come to the present and the "old dog,new tricks" syndrome.
The clovers are sweet. I have yet to be able to throw a load at them that will slow them down. Pure out and out power.
BUT: The smart and most bang for your buck way to go is with the single quad cores and for advice on these, listen to DDTUNG as you won't get better advice anywhere.
My thanks again and just reading your post made my day in more ways than I can tell you.
Dave
PS: I don't think of the WCG team as a support group but more as a bunch of friends that met because we all want the same thing.
To do what we can to try and help. It's just that simple.
The points and the competitions are the fun part and provide a way for some banter between us but the program itself is what is important.

[ibby]

It is great to see someone who takes notice of a wise person, and takes action to help the greater good.

It is great to have you onboard and remmber we need you on our team :)

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Just wanted to point out that a TT120 or similar will not fit in a 2u rack case. Either way should be a beast of a rack.
BTW you have just pasted from nerd to cool DC'er :toast:

[NaeKuh]

WOW any chance you can speed this up and add this to XSTM?? we can really use your offset now that DDT droped in a few hamster farms.

:rofl:

[ibby]

WOW any chance you can speed this up and add this to XSTM?? we can really use your offset now that DDT droped in a few hamster farms.

:rofl:

We have some thing special comming ;)
However iam not allowed to tell anyone! :p:

[o2bme]

First - thanks for all of the feedback;


The X3220 is higher binned than the Q6600 which means it runs cooler, as evidenced by the generally lower default Vcore. You can expect stable OC at around 3.5-3.6G with a top aircooler.

DDTUNG:cool:

Thanks again DDTUNG, do you have any of these in a 1u or 2u case? If so what cooler did you use or does the stock cooler work w/ the airflow?


You do know that it's not fair to have a 55 year old guy read this at 5:08am.
You could give me heart failure at learning that someone really heard what I was trying to say in that thread.
My thanks for that.

Got it, mental note to self; No message affirming posts to Dave after midnight and before 9:00 am Pacific Time. ;)
I have read a lot of your posts around here and you have educated me and made me laugh on several occasions – so my thanks to you for that. As for turning me on to this expensive obsession…I will reserve comment for now!:D


First you have to understand that I'm someone that has liked dual socket machines from back when single sockets were single core and the duals were just plain smoother to use.
Not the pure speed of the single sockets but smoother.

Right there with you, dual cpu workstation is the only way to work. The dual 2.4 single core xeon dusted off to crunch came from research on 2cpu.com years ago.

I agree with you and DDTUNG and will go w/ the 775’s for this project. We can save the dual clovers for another project I am working on – my new workstation with a chiller.

XSTM vs. XSTA: I have to admit to being torn here. I at first thought to join XSTM thinking it was the members vs. the admins, and as I obviously fall into the rank and file members sounded right. BUT – it is machine not members so my clear choice is not so clear to me even though the 8k/day might make it a bit closer race and keep all motivated. I do need to consider these should be Movieman’s points so maybe XSTA…

You make this a tough choice, but I would be willing after the end of day on the 10th to join up I just want to see if I can hit my 30 day,100k goal by then. Besides, these new machines probably won’t be ready in time to help. I just have too much on my plate to get to KC and install them, if I have a tech heading there before I can I will have him do it.

[sierra_bound]

Welcome :)

[o2bme]

Thanks sierra_bound.

DDTUNG - what OS do you use with you hamster farms?

[DDTUNG]

Thanks sierra_bound.

DDTUNG - what OS do you use with you hamster farms?


I use Xtra Protein Pro formulation for hamsters.

Not sure if any 2U cooler can cope with an OCed Kentsfield. Water cooling perhaps?

DDTUNG:cool:

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

but I won’t be able to water cool so OC will be limited.


I use Xtra Protein Pro formulation for hamsters.

Not sure if any 2U cooler can cope with an OCed Kentsfield. Water cooling perhaps?

DDTUNG:cool:

That is why I brought that up. Thanks, Scott

[o2bme]

We have 10u, It is going into a rack I lease in a data center that is always nice and cold, but it's their rack so I don’t think we could water cool. Besides I am out on the West Coast and not really around to maintain a WC setup. I can’t promise more than 10u, I am already going to have an upset VP Engineering when I tell him these new toys are not for him to play with! So the space being the main restraint – how do we create the best use of that 10u: 10 1u servers, 5 2u’s? The bigger the case the fewer the servers so…

I need to decide what Barebones or MB / Case setup - any favorites out there? I have always used Asus for single CPU & SuperMicro for my dual XEONS, but I have not really put a system together for years so I am open here. There are some cheap barebones 1u for the Q6600 but I am still searching for reliable 3220 support.


mysticmerlin;2179796']BTW you have just pasted from nerd to cool DC'er :toast:

Thanks mysticmerlin:woot: , as usual your help is much appreciated. And I am looking to get to crazed DC’er, I will have to work on that.;)

[Movieman]

We have 10u, It is going into a rack I lease in a data center that is always nice and cold, but it's their rack so I don’t think we could water cool. Besides I am out on the West Coast and not really around to maintain a WC setup. I can’t promise more than 10u, I am already going to have an upset VP Engineering when I tell him these new toys are not for him to play with! So the space being the main restraint – how do we create the best use of that 10u: 10 1u servers, 5 2u’s? The bigger the case the fewer the servers so…

I need to decide what Barebones or MB / Case setup - any favorites out there? I have always used Asus for single CPU & SuperMicro for my dual XEONS, but I have not really put a system together for years so I am open here. There are some cheap barebones 1u for the Q6600 but I am still searching for reliable 3220 support.


best use of 10U huh?
Depends on your budget but if you want to go 1st class look at these 1U's:
4 clovertowns,16 cores per 1U:D
http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6015/SYS-6015T-TV.cfm

[DDTUNG]

We have 10u, It is going into a rack I lease in a data center that is always nice and cold, but it's their rack so I don’t think we could water cool. Besides I am out on the West Coast and not really around to maintain a WC setup. I can’t promise more than 10u, I am already going to have an upset VP Engineering when I tell him these new toys are not for him to play with! So the space being the main restraint – how do we create the best use of that 10u: 10 1u servers, 5 2u’s? The bigger the case the fewer the servers so…

I need to decide what Barebones or MB / Case setup - any favorites out there? I have always used Asus for single CPU & SuperMicro for my dual XEONS, but I have not really put a system together for years so I am open here. There are some cheap barebones 1u for the Q6600 but I am still searching for reliable 3220 support.



Thanks mysticmerlin:woot: , as usual your help is much appreciated. And I am looking to get to crazed DC’er, I will have to work on that.;)

For single socket Q6600 or X3220 I use the P5B Deluxe from Asus. For dual socket support Movieman's advice should be taken.

At this point I am thinking maybe 3 x 3U dual Clovers would be your best option?

DDTUNG:cool:

[NaeKuh]

best use of 10U huh?
Depends on your budget but if you want to go 1st class look at these 1U's:
4 clovertowns,16 cores per 1U:D
http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6015/SYS-6015T-TV.cfm

:O

me and my RD-30 will go play in the corner. I see im not at your lvls yet.

:slap:

[DDTUNG]

:O

me and my RD-30 will go play in the corner. I see im not at your lvls yet.

:slap:


Don't feel bad. Some day you'll grow up to be a big boy.;)

DDTUNG:cool:

[serialk11r]

Don't feel bad. Some day you'll grow up to be a big boy.;)

DDTUNG:cool:

I asked my mom (who works in biotech industry btw) if she thought distributed computing for medical purposes was a good idea and if she had any faith in it. She said "its a good place to start". Some day I think I'm gonna become a farmer too...maybe i'll work in biotech too, they're the guys who take ideas and turn them into reality :)

[o2bme]

best use of 10U huh?
Depends on your budget but if you want to go 1st class look at these 1U's:
4 clovertowns,16 cores per 1U:D
http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6015/SYS-6015T-TV.cfm

Those are pretty nice, 2 dual clover motherboards, basically 2 systems in one box. I like 1st class.:cool:


For single socket Q6600 or X3220 I use the P5B Deluxe from Asus. For dual socket support Movieman's advice should be taken.

At this point I am thinking maybe 3 x 3U dual Clovers would be your best option?

DDTUNG:cool:


I want you both to know I am listening to and following your advice, let me explain better as that post could have been better worded – lets blame the looking at specs all day. I was not sure if it would be appropriate to list a budget but basically the blade center I first thought I would put in was going to run about 10k for the center & 10 blades. Thought I would try to stick close to that for now even if it did not take up the whole 10u, just best bang for the bucks. Any remaining U’s can get used later as funds will allow.

I know I can get 10 1u Q6600’s for a little over budget. I am having trouble finding a 1u that clearly states support forthe X3220; a lot of their specs just say the 3000 dual core series. But I am pretty sure we will only get to about 6 or 7 of those as the barebones are bound to cost a few hundred more. I could fill up one of Dave’s systems there with 4 X5355 & 2 gigs each machine for about 7k. That would be 2 dual clovers in 1 u! Or I could do the 3x 3U’s for about about budget.

Compare the potential output of the various options listed above. I have a feeling the X3220’s will probably be best output vs. $$, maybe little less than q6600’s but close and would leave us a few U’s for expansion.

So where is my best folding ‘bang’ for the dollars here? And guys, thank you for your help here I am really enjoying this.

[o2bme]

:O

me and my RD-30 will go play in the corner. I see im not at your lvls yet.

:slap:

Their lvls; I am merely benefiting from playing in their sandbox here! I love that pump, getting one for my new workstation.

[njkid32]

How about something like this??? (http://cgi.ebay.com/INTEL-SY-SR1500ALSASNA-1U-SAS-CLOVERTON-FBDIMM_W0QQitemZ320105825393QQihZ011QQcategoryZ140 076QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

[DDTUNG]

Those are pretty nice, 2 dual clover motherboards, basically 2 systems in one box. I like 1st class.:cool:




I want you both to know I am listening to and following your advice, let me explain better as that post could have been better worded – lets blame the looking at specs all day. I was not sure if it would be appropriate to list a budget but basically the blade center I first thought I would put in was going to run about 10k for the center & 10 blades. Thought I would try to stick close to that for now even if it did not take up the whole 10u, just best bang for the bucks. Any remaining U’s can get used later as funds will allow.

I know I can get 10 1u Q6600’s for a little over budget. I am having trouble finding a 1u that clearly states support forthe X3220; a lot of their specs just say the 3000 dual core series. But I am pretty sure we will only get to about 6 or 7 of those as the barebones are bound to cost a few hundred more. I could fill up one of Dave’s systems there with 4 X5355 & 2 gigs each machine for about 7k. That would be 2 dual clovers in 1 u! Or I could do the 3x 3U’s for about about budget.

Compare the potential output of the various options listed above. I have a feeling the X3220’s will probably be best output vs. $$, maybe little less than q6600’s but close and would leave us a few U’s for expansion.

So where is my best folding ‘bang’ for the dollars here? And guys, thank you for your help here I am really enjoying this.

The X3220 and Q6600 are both socket 775. Every single socket board I've used, that supports the Q6600, supports the X3220 as well. As Dave has pointed out, the single socket/Q6600 solution is more cost effective when one takes OC potential into consideration, and when rack space is not a limiting factor. Mathematically, six Q6600s OCed to 3.6 each are equivalent to nine 1u Q6600s run at stock of 2.4, but the OCed Q6600s would need 18u to 24u to house, versus 9u for the blades. When you introduce dual Clovertons into the equation, you have more variables, namely: OC vs stock, single socket vs dual socket, cost, and rack space.

When we pool the experience of all the users here we will eventually find the optimal solution.:)

DDTUNG:cool:

[[XC] serlv]

Those are pretty nice, 2 dual clover motherboards, basically 2 systems in one box. I like 1st class.:cool:




I want you both to know I am listening to and following your advice, let me explain better as that post could have been better worded – lets blame the looking at specs all day. I was not sure if it would be appropriate to list a budget but basically the blade center I first thought I would put in was going to run about 10k for the center & 10 blades. Thought I would try to stick close to that for now even if it did not take up the whole 10u, just best bang for the bucks. Any remaining U’s can get used later as funds will allow.

I know I can get 10 1u Q6600’s for a little over budget. I am having trouble finding a 1u that clearly states support forthe X3220; a lot of their specs just say the 3000 dual core series. But I am pretty sure we will only get to about 6 or 7 of those as the barebones are bound to cost a few hundred more. I could fill up one of Dave’s systems there with 4 X5355 & 2 gigs each machine for about 7k. That would be 2 dual clovers in 1 u! Or I could do the 3x 3U’s for about about budget.

Compare the potential output of the various options listed above. I have a feeling the X3220’s will probably be best output vs. $$, maybe little less than q6600’s but close and would leave us a few U’s for expansion.

So where is my best folding ‘bang’ for the dollars here? And guys, thank you for your help here I am really enjoying this.

If you don't go with dual core...
I would strongly suggest 4 gigs of RAM per dual Clover. We've had some WU's chomp on well over 300 MBs per unit. At 8 WU's per dually that is using over 2400 MBs of RAM.

[sierra_bound]

If he is going the dual Clovertown route, he will need Server 2003 Enterprise or Datacenter. XP does not support eight cores. Or, he will have to use Linux. I believe the standard version of Ubuntu can support eight cores.

[Movieman]

Some thoughts:
First I think we have to assume that these units will run at stock or close to stock speeds and correct me if I'm wrong on this.
I'm also assuming that these systems aren't like systems at home that can be watched over like little children to make sure they don't get into "mischief"
They need to be rock solid and to me that means top cooling and that cooling and 1U's just don't work together.
I heard you say app $10K and I'm glad you did.
Those dual 1U's I mentioned will eat money faster than you can print it.
EACH using 4-X5355's will cost app $5200.00 JUST for the cpu's unless you found a good deal on some ES's( Back to that later) then add app $1600.00 for that barebones case,psu and board's, another $720.00 for the 8x1 gig of DDR2-667FBDimms and your at app $7500.00 for ONE of those quad clover systems and in a 1U case on air I don't think you could OC it very much and that board is NOT the 5000X chipset that we can "play" with.
Lets break that down: $7500.00 for a system that will do between 40-42K a day in WCG.
Those are real numbers as I have a clover running on XSTA right now and it will do max of 20-21K a day so double that and you see where I get that 40-42K number.
Now lets see what we can do with that same $7500.00 another way.
(Victor, jump in on this if I mess up the numbers on these single socket systems, not my strong point)
I'm thinking 5-2U quadcores running at 3000mhz. Now I can price these but at this point I need some help.
Will a decent quadcore pull 3000mhz 24/7 in a well designed 2U case?
That and what is the output at that speed? I know what they will do at 3400,3500 and up to 3800 but not at 3000.
My guess is maybe 12,000 points a day?
If they will do 12,000 a day then 5 will do 60K and that beats the crap out of that one clover 16 core setup at 40-42,000 a day.
Now can they be built for $1500.00 each?
A Q6600,2 gig of my guess is PC2-6400 memory, a 550-600W PSU,etc
IF they can be built for that amount and IF they will pull 10-12K a day then thats the way to go.
Remember, thats using a $7500.00 figure.
I don't want to spend all your money in one shot.
Also nice to have some ready cash for spares. hard drives do go as well as PSU's over time.

Ok, someone with single socket knowledge grab this and insert some numbers using the right quadcore cpu's,boards and ram.

[Jaco]

here's my Q6600 , running 338x9 = 3042Mhz

approx 12k /day

[Jaco]

some math :

Q6600 $500 Q6600 (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=178387) or X3210 (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=183620)
decent board $200 commando (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=174889)
2 gig RAM $100 Crucial Value (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=138994)
decent psu $150 Silverstone (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=180260&showTechData=true)
cooling $60 thermalright (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/details.html?articleId=148479)
disk $60
el cheapo gpu 30$
no case

total 1100$

[DDTUNG]

Some thoughts:
First I think we have to assume that these units will run at stock or close to stock speeds and correct me if I'm wrong on this.
I'm also assuming that these systems aren't like systems at home that can be watched over like little children to make sure they don't get into "mischief"
They need to be rock solid and to me that means top cooling and that cooling and 1U's just don't work together.
I heard you say app $10K and I'm glad you did.
Those dual 1U's I mentioned will eat money faster than you can print it.
EACH using 4-X5355's will cost app $5200.00 JUST for the cpu's unless you found a good deal on some ES's( Back to that later) then add app $1600.00 for that barebones case,psu and board's, another $720.00 for the 8x1 gig of DDR2-667FBDimms and your at app $7500.00 for ONE of those quad clover systems and in a 1U case on air I don't think you could OC it very much and that board is NOT the 5000X chipset that we can "play" with.
Lets break that down: $7500.00 for a system that will do between 40-42K a day in WCG.
Those are real numbers as I have a clover running on XSTA right now and it will do max of 20-21K a day so double that and you see where I get that 40-42K number.
Now lets see what we can do with that same $7500.00 another way.
(Victor, jump in on this if I mess up the numbers on these single socket systems, not my strong point)
I'm thinking 5-2U quadcores running at 3000mhz. Now I can price these but at this point I need some help.
Will a decent quadcore pull 3000mhz 24/7 in a well designed 2U case?
That and what is the output at that speed? I know what they will do at 3400,3500 and up to 3800 but not at 3000.
My guess is maybe 12,000 points a day?
If they will do 12,000 a day then 5 will do 60K and that beats the crap out of that one clover 16 core setup at 40-42,000 a day.
Now can they be built for $1500.00 each?
A Q6600,2 gig of my guess is PC2-6400 memory, a 550-600W PSU,etc
IF they can be built for that amount and IF they will pull 10-12K a day then thats the way to go.
Remember, thats using a $7500.00 figure.
I don't want to spend all your money in one shot.
Also nice to have some ready cash for spares. hard drives do go as well as PSU's over time.

Ok, someone with single socket knowledge grab this and insert some numbers using the right quadcore cpu's,boards and ram.

Here are the numbers for a single socket Q6600 or X3220 Kentsfield rig:

CPU $500
2x1G PC5300 $100
P5B Deluxe $165
HDD $50
PSU $100
HSF $50
PCI vid card $10
Chassis $?

So it comes to roughly $1,000 plus chassis.

OC to 9 x 333 = 3.0G at stock volts to 0.05V above stock.

Output will be roughly 11.5K per day.

DDTUNG:cool:

[Movieman]

Ok, so the numbers are good on the quadcores and the numbers at 3000 hold good also. THanks Jaco and Victor.
Looks to me like thats the smart way to use that space.
If the 5 quad setup's cost app $6000.00 total you can always do a dual clover for yourself at home.
One done in a regular tower can be done for under that $4G's that's left by working a little off the normal path..:rolleyes:

[meshmesh]

First welcome to the team. Glad that you joined.

As to the issue in question, allow me to look at it from a different prespective.
To me, that rack space = free power consumption and free air conditioning.
That is worth a LOT of money and need to be taken into consideration.
So with that in mind:

5 systems, each composed of:

1x Supermicro 2U chassis SC823T-550LPB $375 (neqx)
1x Supermicro motherboard X7DAE $445 (newegg)
2x Intel E5345 2.33 GHz $475 (newegg after summer price cuts - estimate)
2x Kingstom 2x1GB 667 FB-DIMM kit $200 (newegg)
1x Western Digital WD800JD 80GB SATA $50 (newegg)
1x Supermicro, AOC-SIMLP-B IPMI 2.0 Controller $75 (costcentral)
Linux OS (free)

Total cost per system ~$2295
Total cost of 5 systems ~$11,500 <== within budget?
Space used 10U

Crunching power 40 CPU cores @ 2.33 Ghz (stock) = 93.2 GHz
Estimated Daily output = ~88,000 points per day
Total production over three years = 96,360,000 points

Electric power load = 5 * 350 Watt = 1.75 KW (check available power, should be Ok for a typical 8 KW rack)
Electric power consumption = ~46,000 KWH over three years

Depending on where you live, your millage will vary:
Allowance for Air condition loads = 4,000 KWH over three years (probably more. check)
Total electric power saved due to hosting the systems = 50,000 KWH over three years
Assuming electric power = 10 cents / KWH (fixed over three years?)

Cost of electricity 50,000 KWH * $0.1 / KWH = $5,000 <== value of free hosting, money saved (probably more)

Personally, this is how I would evaluate the various alternatives given the free rack space option.
I would take the $5,000 savings into consideration when calculating the other options needed to provide an equivalent production over the life of the equipment. I know everyone may look at things from a different angle. To me it is the TCO that matters.

Quick notes:
* 1U systems are a viable alternative and cost a bit more but the rack may not have 3.5 KW extra available.
* 2-in-1U supermicro solution is a new and untested innovation. In addition to the very high power rack density, stuffing 40 CPUs in 10U just feels a bit too much for the cooling provided. The HP c-class enclosure manages 32 CPUs in 10U and with superiour cooling (10 x 120x38mm high power fans).
*Using the 10U on a couple of systems is a massive loss of opportunity.
*When evaluating the output of Q6600 or similar 775 socket systems, keep in mind that the cooling available inside a 4U case, placed among a hot servers in a 25C isle and behind closed rack doors will not be the same as OCing with the MB outside on a table or in a roomy desktop. You wan't even be able to use those 160mm+ HS (ex: Thermaltake Ulta120+). At best would be able to fit a Tuniqu tower (155mm?) . So I would drop my expectations a notch to be on the safe side.
*Pushing an ATX system hard, with no direct access to it once placed in the data center, may reduce it's availability. Unlike the dual clover MBs, you will not have access to the BIOS, unless you add a KVM over IP switch ($$$). Having heavily OCed boxes in a datacenter is not the same as having them in the spare room imo. They need some TLC.

Just my 2 cents.

[DDTUNG]

X5345 price drop will not take place until September, by which time Q6600/X3220 price will be $250.

Heatload from Q6600/X3220 mildly OCed to 3G at stock volts or slightly above in a 2U chassis should be manageable with good 2U coolers such as those from Cooljag. This is based on the assumption that two Clovertons at stock are manageable in the same 2U chassis.

My speculation is that there will be more TLC needed to deal with Boinc issues than with hardware/heat related problems.

DDTUNG:cool:

[Movieman]

@o2bme:
Now you know why I'm with this team.
Brilliant minds and people that are dedicated to doing the best possible:D

[o2bme]

Movieman this thread alone is proving that! Amazing, you can’t get this much dedication and knowledge from most corporate tech teams. When you guys come together, well thanks just seems inadequate. Appropriate though as this little farm was meant to be for XS DC and all of you helping like this makes it more so and adds a lot of fun to the project for me. Makes it hard to reply as just as I have one ready another heap of wisdom piles on and I feel the need to edit!

meshmesh thanks for that post, I agree the rack availability presents a great opportunity. In fact when I first thought about the space available I thought I would just offer to host systems for you guys for free since I was already paying for the space. But the bug has got me, and besides I was getting jealous of DDTUNG and Movieman’s systems! I am still considering the 771’s but don’t know if we should count on price drops yet.

So the question comes down to 1U vs. 2U. I know we can OC a bit using 2U with the X3220 but not twice the output of 2 1U boxes using stock X3220. What can we expect from an X3220 stock? So 7-10 systems ultimately, if budget means we wait to finish out the 10U with extra funds later that’s fine as long as we get the best use of the space. Truth is, maybe later I can dedicate more space but for now I need to leave the rest to my dev. Team.

[o2bme]

On another note: It looks like I am going to hit my 30 day/100K points goal! :woot: It will be very close but evidently it sandbagged me yesterday and I only need about 450 more points!

I even threw my wifes computer on 24/7 to make sure - she was not thrilled. Its one of those Sony all in ones, p4 3.2 and its moaning the extra use!

[Movieman]

I think I'd make a long term plan using the best possible output from the space. If that means one system now, another in 3 months,etc then so be it.
The last thing I'd want to see is a huge outlay of cash and then find a better solution.
As to me, don't be jealous. I'm just a guy with 6 systems in his house and collaborated with meshmesh on 2 of them.:D
Now DDT, thats another story!:fact:

On another note: It looks like I am going to hit my 30 day/100K points goal! :woot: It will be very close but evidently it sandbagged me yesterday and I only need about 450 more points!

I even threw my wifes computer on 24/7 to make sure - she was not thrilled. Its one of those Sony all in ones, p4 3.2 and its moaning the extra use!
Doing 30K a day isn't easy.
On a good day I get maybe 33K tops from a clover, a DX3600, a DX2400, and Opty 266 and a P4-3200..

[meshmesh]

... Heatload from Q6600/X3220 mildly OCed to 3G at stock volts or slightly above in a 2U chassis should be manageable with good 2U coolers such as those from Cooljag. This is based on the assumption that two Clovertons at stock are manageable in the same 2U chassis....
Agree. Two clovertown are managable in 2U. But I remeber that when we tried going above 2.66 GHz stock speed (1.3375 stock bios volts), we first replaced the fans with 80x38mm 84cfm high speed vantecs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612). Just about holding at 60-62C. And that was in winter. The cases are big and dave is currently keeping the ambient at 70F (21C).

I am not familiar with those cooljag heatsinks, and do not know what the OCed temperatures will be with 60mm fans. My knowledge is extremely limited, but I am guessing that temps may be a bit tight running 2.4 Ghz / 105W cpus at 3Ghz even at stock Vcores with this HS. I am sure I that am totally wrong though.

Can the X3220 manage 3 Ghz with less than 1.3375V set in BIOS?

Looking at the picture (http://www.cooljag.com/IMG/JAC16EC.gif) (I assume these are the ones), will this HS base clear over the capacitors around the P5B (http://www.asus.com/999/images/products/1295/1295_m.jpg) deluxe?

[serialk11r]

Sorry to go sorta off topic (although I guess its fine) but do dual clovers have better performance/watt than kentsfield?

[Movieman]

Sorry to go sorta off topic (although I guess its fine) but do dual clovers have better performance/watt than kentsfield?

If you mean electrical usage, I don't know. I can tell you that a dual clover at 3156mhz draws app 450 watts thru the elec cord as I measured that yesterday.

[DDTUNG]

Movieman this thread alone is proving that! Amazing, you can’t get this much dedication and knowledge from most corporate tech teams. When you guys come together, well thanks just seems inadequate. Appropriate though as this little farm was meant to be for XS DC and all of you helping like this makes it more so and adds a lot of fun to the project for me. Makes it hard to reply as just as I have one ready another heap of wisdom piles on and I feel the need to edit!

meshmesh thanks for that post, I agree the rack availability presents a great opportunity. In fact when I first thought about the space available I thought I would just offer to host systems for you guys for free since I was already paying for the space. But the bug has got me, and besides I was getting jealous of DDTUNG and Movieman’s systems! I am still considering the 771’s but don’t know if we should count on price drops yet.

So the question comes down to 1U vs. 2U. I know we can OC a bit using 2U with the X3220 but not twice the output of 2 1U boxes using stock X3220. What can we expect from an X3220 stock? So 7-10 systems ultimately, if budget means we wait to finish out the 10U with extra funds later that’s fine as long as we get the best use of the space. Truth is, maybe later I can dedicate more space but for now I need to leave the rest to my dev. Team.

9K per day from a X3220 at stock. Since the X3320/Q6600 has plenty of OC headroom at stock volts, it is entirely possible to run a 1U at say 2.7 to 2.8, provided the marginally increased heatload can be dissipated, and the PSU can handle the power requirements.

Since this is a long term project it might be wise to experiment with one of each to start with.

DDTUNG:cool:

[DDTUNG]

Agree. Two clovertown are managable in 2U. But I remeber that when we tried going above 2.66 GHz stock speed (1.3375 stock bios volts), we first replaced the fans with 80x38mm 84cfm high speed vantecs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999612). Just about holding at 60-62C. And that was in winter. The cases are big and dave is currently keeping the ambient at 70F (21C).

I am not familiar with those cooljag heatsinks, and do not know what the OCed temperatures will be with 60mm fans. My knowledge is extremely limited, but I am guessing that temps may be a bit tight running 2.4 Ghz / 105W cpus at 3Ghz even at stock Vcores with this HS. I am sure I that am totally wrong though.

Can the X3220 manage 3 Ghz with less than 1.3375V set in BIOS?

Looking at the picture (http://www.cooljag.com/IMG/JAC16EC.gif) (I assume these are the ones), will this HS base clear over the capacitors around the P5B (http://www.asus.com/999/images/products/1295/1295_m.jpg) deluxe?

Quite frankly I have not used the Cooljag heatsinks for socket 775 but from my experience with their heatsinks for socket 604 dual Xeons(2.4 M0s OCed to 3.4 with 1.5+ actual Vcore) in my farm, I would expect them to be of high quality design and effective.

Each Q6600/X3220 chip is programmed with a preset Vcore based on binning. I have personally seen a range of 1.2125 to 1.2875 default Vcore on them.

DDTUNG:cool:

[meshmesh]

You are welcome.


...So the question comes down to 1U vs. 2U. I know we can OC a bit using 2U with the X3220 but not twice the output of 2 1U boxes using stock X3220. What can we expect from an X3220 stock? So 7-10 systems ultimately, if budget means we wait to finish out the 10U with extra funds later that’s fine as long as we get the best use of the space. Truth is, maybe later I can dedicate more space but for now I need to leave the rest to my dev. Team.

x3220 stock at 2.4 = ~9,000 points per day per cpu.
And based on what DDT has just said (and he knows), it may be possible to OC just a bit even in 1U.

2U vs 1U: With the prices also dropping on the Xeon in September to ~$266, you may be able to get the best of both worlds. IE: still be able to put 2 X3220 together side by side and have 8 cores per system at a cheeper price than the clovertowns (using DDR-II RAM) an with 18,000 ppd running stock. Beats the E5345 and leaves some space if you want to.

The plateform is called Townsend. Some info here (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=2).

Too many choices. Anyone knows the status or where to get these from? Time to dig further. :)

Edit: Some more info:
Port Townsend motherboard from Intel S3000PT (http://www.intel.com/design/servers/boards/s3000PT/index.htm).
1U rackmount case from Evercase R913-PTS (http://www.evercase.com/2product/R913-PTS.html)

Since the chipset is different that the 965P and the Bios would not overclock (probably), I wonder whether the X3220 being a 266 fsb chip would accept a BSEL mod to 333x9 stock vcore? That would be 22,500 ppd per 1U on the cheep. The ulimate cruncher?

[[XC] DragonOrta]

Can the X3220 manage 3 Ghz with less than 1.3375V set in BIOS?


They shouldn't have any problem reaching 3ghz with less that stock volts.

My Q6600 can do 3ghz(9x333) with only 1.21v.

[meshmesh]

DragonOrta;2183062']They shouldn't have any problem reaching 3ghz with less that stock volts.

My Q6600 can do 3ghz(9x333) with only 1.21v.

Wow. That is a different story.

[njkid32]

Agreed, this Q6600 I am running was at 3.4ghz with 1.28v actual and still was at 55c loaded. But, we all have to remember that not all cpu's will run this well. I would say expect the worse and hope for the best:D

[o2bme]

This team truly is amazing:


The plateform is called Townsend. Some info here (http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=2).

I like this idea, it’s the 775 version of the Supermicro Dave found. Now we are talking density!


Too many choices. Anyone knows the status or where to get these from? Time to dig further. :)

I found the Evercase 1U dual Board and TST Blade server case on newegg. I cannot find the Evercase blade center anywhere. The boards I actually found on Amazon, sold by some ‘Computer Brain’ reseller for $250.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811291015

I like this although I worry about not knowing the companies I like the ‘blade’ offerings, not real blades – no backplane or anything. These would allow for 10 systems in a 4U package, which would be 90k production from 4U (although with budget I might have to start w/ 7). That would leave us a lot of room for expansion. For 3500.00 do we just build a 4U case to accept 10 of these boards?

Dave’s Supermicro find could give us 160k points for the same space. But would cost 30k!


Since this is a long term project it might be wise to experiment with one of each to start with.

DDTUNG:cool:

I agree with this and imagine a lot of tests before filling the rack, but would like to narrow the options before beginning the purchases.


Since the chipset is different that the 965P and the Bios would not overclock (probably), I wonder whether the X3220 being a 266 fsb chip would accept a BSEL mod to 333x9 stock vcore?

For the record, I have no idea on this part and will really be counting on all of you for help there.

[meshmesh]

As for the Ever case being of an unknown company, it wouldn't bother me a lot. The only parts that may go wrong over the long run would be the cooling fans and the PSUs, which shouldn't be impossible to replace.
As for the blade option, as you pointed out, it is not really a blade. Ok, it is aluminum, but still the $1,000 premium asking price is too high to justify the 1U rack space saved compared to the Ever Case.
Since it is still early days (price drop would probably be three months away), one would hope that the 1U Townsend cases would drop in prices too.
Evercase is capitalizing on "first to market" pricing. Compared to typical 1U case the asking price is ridiculously high.
TST (USA company, national call?) 1U case with it's high the efficiency PSU should be at newegg by then. Hopefully other vendors would be competing too.

Ok, to summarise: assume that 6U rack space is available (free) for crunching , leaving 4U for developers. Assume additional rack, if needed would be rent.
Assume 1U rack space rent at $15 / month. power and bandwidth extra (irrelevant to this analysis). Q3 cpu quantity pricing.

Solution 1: Cruncher based on Port Townsend:
1x Ever Case R913-PTS $500 (newegg)
2x Intel motherboard S3000PT (http://www.intel.com/design/servers/boards/s3000PT/index.htm) (revision -205, Bios R37 required) $250 (many (http://shopper.cnet.com/motherboards/intel-server-board-s3000pt/4014-3049_9-32111830.html?orderby=200&sort=asc&tag=ob_200))
2x Intel X3220 2.4 Ghz $266 (newegg)
2x OCZ Gold (2x1GB) 667 DDR2 CAS4 $84 (newegg)
2x Western Digital WD800JD 80GB SATA $50 (newegg)
Cost = $1800 each. Farm of 6 such systems, $10,800. Additioinal rack rent over three years = zero. Production 108,000 ppd at 2.4 GHz, stock speed.
Note: OCing the chipset is an unknown at this point, so not taken into consideration.

Solution 2: Cruncher based on ATX in 1U (there may be an issue with the GPU needing a riser card, so probably replace with MB with built in graphics, or run OS headless?):
P5B-DLX ATX MB in 1U case OCed to ~2.75, stock Vcore (assuming can cope with cooling)
Cost = ~$800 each (estimate). Farm of 10 such systems, $8,000. Additioinal 4U rack rent over three years = 2,160. Production 103,000 ppd at 2.75 GHz speed.

Solution 3: Cruncher based on ATX in 2U:
P5B-DLX ATX MB in 2U case OCed to 3.2, with some added Vcore and cooljag heatsinks
Cost = ~$900 each (estimate). Farm of 9 such systems, $8,100. Additioinal 12U rack rent over three years = 6,480. Production 108,000 ppd at 3.2 GHz speed.

Solution 4: Cruncher based on clovertown in 1U:
1x Supermicro 2U chassis CSE-812L-520U (http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/812/SC812L-520U.cfm) $313 (copystart)
1x Supermicro motherboard X7DGU (http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5000X/X7DGU.cfm) $447 (servers direct)
2x Intel E5345 2.33 GHz $455 (newegg)
2x Kingstom 2x1GB 667 FB-DIMM kit $200 (newegg)
1x Western Digital WD800JD 80GB SATA $50 (newegg)
Cost = $2,120 each. Farm of 6 such systems, $12,720. Additioinal rack rent over three years = zero. Production 105,000 ppd at 2.33 GHz, stock speed.
Optional extra per box: 1x Supermicro, AOC-SIMSO+ (http://www.supermicro.com/manuals/other/AOC-SIMSO.pdf) IPMI 2.0 w/ KVM over IP $111 (costcentral)
Note: if needed, only one OS licence / box compared to the Townsend two.

Hope this helps.

[Jaco]

I'm really liking the S3000PT Townsend board .

Too bad it's 250$ . I wonder if we could do a group buy on these :D

What kind of heatsinks are there for 1U servers ? The quad cores must run real hot in such a cramped 1U space, i think.

[Movieman]

Jaco;2187094']I'm really liking the S3000PT Townsend board .

Too bad it's 250$ . I wonder if we could do a group buy on these :D

What kind of heatsinks are there for 1U servers ? The quad cores must run real hot in such a cramped 1U space, i think.

We forgot to tell you. Yes, 4 dual Kents and he wants to keep it at your house...:D
As to the Iu's, Even thought it's not my type of system, they must work or they wouldn't sell thousands of them every year..Maybe there's a littl guy in there tossing Ice at the cpu every minute to keep it cool.

[SiGfever]

We forgot to tell you. Yes, 4 dual Kents and he wants to keep it at your house...:D
As to the Iu's, Even thought it's not my type of system, they must work or they wouldn't sell thousands of them every year..Maybe there's a littl guy in there tossing Ice at the cpu every minute to keep it cool.

It also helps that the Data Center is supplying 55f discharge air (with enough tonnage for the worst case scenario) blowing into the racks with 50% +/- humidity.

[meshmesh]

Jaco;2187094']I'm really liking the S3000PT Townsend board .

Too bad it's 250$ . I wonder if we could do a group buy on these :D

What kind of heatsinks are there for 1U servers ? The quad cores must run real hot in such a cramped 1U space, i think.


We forgot to tell you. Yes, 4 dual Kents and he wants to keep it at your house...
As to the Iu's, Even thought it's not my type of system, they must work or they wouldn't sell thousands of them every year..Maybe there's a littl guy in there tossing Ice at the cpu every minute to keep it cool.

@jaco: The heat sinks are small passive copper type. The powerfull separately mounted fans push a lot of air directed through the heat sinks by specially designed plastic shrouds. The whole system is designed to work together, aka a thermal solution, like these (http://www.supermicro.com/manuals/matrices/ThermalMatrix.pdf).

But these 1Us are only sutable for rack mounting in a datacenter to save space. You do NOT want to have them anywhere near your house. They work very well for that purpose but they are noisy. Each box has 15 x 40mm high speed fans. Those run at up to 15,000 RPM each. No yates here.:)

And keep in mind that these dual Xeon boxes are very efficient . The cooling is more than adequate for the power draw (the setup was thermally validated by Intel). Each 1U dual Xeon draws 263 (http://www.reasonco.com/solutions/cluster/cs-chcpmobilecluster.htm) Watts peak at stock speed using the Evercase setup above. Very different that the 450 Watt drawn by the dual clover system (in sig).:rolleyes:

As dave said, these are the quite common. Unless you need more than four HDs, 1U is the way to go. And lots of options (http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/multi-core.cfm?pg=SS).

[o2bme]

@meshmesh, we are never going to have trouble getting details from you are we! Thank you for your thoughtful research on this.


…but still the $1,000 premium asking price is too high to justify the 1U rack space saved compared to the Ever Case

Thanks for the to the point view here, I had missed that in reality the 4U 10 CPU system would only save me 1U over going the dual Townsend route.


Since it is still early days (price drop would probably be three months away),

This is something to discuss. I had not originally planned on waiting for the price drop. But it does seem like we could get a lot more power for the money if we do. Of coarse when is that not true – stuff is always going to be cheaper. What do we know about timeframes and new releases? Movieman you mentioned a newer Clover due…


Ok, to summarise: assume that 6U rack space is available (free) for crunching , leaving 4U for developers.

Actually this is a 21U half rack my company leases. I was giving the 10U for crunching leaving for now, the rest for work related development.


Hope this helps.

There is an understatement.



Maybe there's a littl guy in there tossing Ice at the cpu every minute to keep it cool.

Confirmation of the 1U ice tossers! Underground image below smuggled out at great risk show the infamous ‘Snow Miser’ training a new batch of 1U recruits. (Yep, madness has taken hold!)

[o2bme]

For single socket Q6600 or X3220 I use the P5B Deluxe from Asus.
DDTUNG:cool:

@DDTUNG, different system but would you still suggest that board for my main workstation or is there a better choice? What air cooler do you use on those X3220 OC'd?

Thanks again,
John

[DDTUNG]

@DDTUNG, different system but would you still suggest that board for my main workstation or is there a better choice? What air cooler do you use on those X3220 OC'd?

Thanks again,
John

I prefer to use the Tuniq Tower 120 but a lot of people are raving about the new Thermalright Ultra-120 Xtreme which to me is unproven with Kentsfields.

What's OC are you planning for 24/7 use?

DDTUNG:cool:

[o2bme]

This will be my full time workstation. And as such on 24/7. No experience OC these things so will be asking for help but I think 3.5+ should or so. The case is actually air tight and the air will be chilled. I will probably be water chilling the CPU but initially I need to try air as well. I was going to just use the QX6700 but I really like this X3220, with price not being an issue should I stick with the QX or go 3220 until the 45nm arrive?

[DDTUNG]

This will be my full time workstation. And as such on 24/7. No experience OC these things so will be asking for help but I think 3.5+ should or so. The case is actually air tight and the air will be chilled. I will probably be water chilling the CPU but initially I need to try air as well. I was going to just use the QX6700 but I really like this X3220, with price not being an issue should I stick with the QX or go 3220 until the 45nm arrive?

3.5 should be OK with the TT120 in a well ventilated case, or 3.7 with good watercooling. If you don't need the higher multipliers available with the QX6700, the X3220 runs at lower default voltage and OCs almost as well.

DDTUNG:cool:

[njkid32]

I am putting a kentsfield rig together today with a TT Ultra-120 so I'll see how it is and report back to you:)

[o2bme]

I am putting a kentsfield rig together today with a TT Ultra-120 so I'll see how it is and report back to you:)

Thanks njkid32, I look forward to hearing about it, are you OC'ing, (Is that a silly question)?

Is the board of choice for these Kentfields the pb deluxe or the Striker Extreme for its 1333FSB?

As for my Farm…Can we expect the X3220’s to follow the price drop of the Q6600?

Given the price drop rumors I believe I will wait for the price drop to fill out the 10U with the dual Kentsfield systems. In the meantime I will get one ordered so we can know what to expect from the board/CPU.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

The new ASUS P5K Deluxe that uses the P35 chipset seems like the bees knees in regard to overclocking Quadcores. You might have a look at some of the threads about it in the Intel section.

Once they get to a realistic price, one is definitely going to be on it's way to my house. :D

[njkid32]

No problem. Me, oc never:rolleyes: I would say stick with the 965 chipset and 1066fsb.. You can always use a higher fsb to achieve a decent oc. Using the besel mod for the 1333fsb wont be idea on the 965 chipset. This mod is more for the nvidia 680i or the intel 975 chipsets. Trust me the Kentsfields will perform very nicely on an inexpensive 965 chipset board. I assume your not going for 4ghz but a nice 3.2-3.3ghz on stock vcore will run very cool (compared to high vcore temps) in a 2u or 4u case whichever you choose to use.

[o2bme]

Actually this motherboard question is not for the farm or going into a rack, its actually for my other project - my main workstation. Its going into a custom air chilled case and will be used for multiple apps and games so video will matter. My bad for hijaking my own thread :slapass: but you guys have convinced me to use one of these processors in my new box as well!

[njkid32]

If this is going to be for your personal workstation grab yourself either a Abit Quad GT or a DFI-S Dark both 965 chipset and will clock high for ya:D

[[XC] DragonOrta]

I can take my Q6600 to 3555 (9x395) on my QuadGT, but anything after that will restart every few hours, which is also what my P5N-E SLi would once I hit the FSB wall on the 650i chipset, so it looks like I've hit the fsb wall on the GT.

If you want really high fsb(480-500) on a quadcore, wait for the P35 chipset boards to come around.

[Movieman]

Actually this motherboard question is not for the farm or going into a rack, its actually for my other project - my main workstation. Its going into a custom air chilled case and will be used for multiple apps and games so video will matter. My bad for hijaking my own thread :slapass: but you guys have convinced me to use one of these processors in my new box as well!

Chilled personal workstation huh?
And you want to use one of those piddly slow quadcores?:p:
Now here's a situation to have 2 machines on your desk with a KVM switch.
A nice cool cheap to run Merom or comparible system and a dual clover for those times when you need to get some real work done in a hurry!;)

[o2bme]

Yes, this build has been in the plans for a while. I have been putting all of my money into my company, now that others are going to be paying it seemed like time to get myself my toy. I had this desk built to put the computer inside of it:cool: . And don’t think I have not thought about dual clovers, but I only get 1 machine the whole ‘in the desk’ idea was to keep it sleek and clean. That’s why I was going to upgrade after the new generation of XEONS get out here. Besides my farm is getting needy and I only have so much resources.

Merom?

[njkid32]

I would really like to see some pics of your desk.... If you dont do the chilled water cooling and put a dual clover system in it I would assume you could fry an egg on the desktop:D

[Movieman]

Yes, this build has been in the plans for a while. I have been putting all of my money into my company, now that others are going to be paying it seemed like time to get myself my toy. I had this desk built to put the computer inside of it:cool: . And don’t think I have not thought about dual clovers, but I only get 1 machine the whole ‘in the desk’ idea was to keep it sleek and clean. That’s why I was going to upgrade after the new generation of XEONS get out here. Besides my farm is getting needy and I only have so much resources.

Merom?
A mobile c2d for lack of a better way to describe it.
low wattage so cool and quiet but still enough "stones" to do a decent job
Just saw a test on the new xeons..factory at 3330/12mb/1333..
That has to have a 10 multi and use DDR2-800FBDimms.
Using a divider maybe so the ram is at 400 but not at 1:1???
Stick the ram at 400 and your looking at a 4000/12mb/1600 system..:eek:

[o2bme]

Alright, this took longer than I thought. My nice camera is in the room with my sleeping wife, so phone camera it is and that was a pain to get the photo off of it.

So what about the Asus p5k? Put a x3220 in it and some great memory.

I know I said clean, but that happens after I get the computer in there...really. The lower left drawer is where the case goes. The internals actually has room for the 7/16 tubing to go out the back left side and up the bookshelf to the chiller to sit on the bookcase. The case is airtight and I use a radiator as a air chiller to make sure the air stays cool inside.

The project can be found here.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134771

[Yoxxy]

How about you just sell/lease the unmetered rackspace, and pay for the boxes with that income. You are talking $300 (low-end Tier 2/3 datacenter) to 1100(Tier 1, Tier1a, unmetered datacenter) for each 1U. $3,000-$11,000 a month in income you can take out. Pretty much pays for a dual cloverton box a month.

We are not doing our best to think this one out.

I am going to be frank with you on this one. If you use 100mbit rackspace to run WCG which uses 40-50 megs a month you are making a mistake. The reason you have/pay for datacenter access is to run websites, thousands to tens of thousands of websites. 100mbit datacenter access costs a pretty penny.

After thinking read this through a little more I just don't see how there is anyway this can work out. Call me a pessimist I guess.

I just don't think there is anyway this can work out.

A.) He will need datacenter access, to set everything up.
B.) There is no way he should overclock as if he restarts the computer he has to have DATACENTER staff hard reboot it for him which usually costs around $75. You are talking about putting in all the testing work at home than lugging the box to the datacenter, or sending it in to have someone else do it and pay them. Grabbing an IP and running it from home.
C.) He will need to run Linux more than likely, as Windows licensing fees will cost as much as the servers.
D.) Server parts cost 40-50&#37; more and aren't made to be overclocked, they can be but a 1U is going to kill overclocking potentional.
E.) His budget is $10,000 which is not really much to work with when it comes to server parts.

There is just much better ways to do this for $10,000. If you setup and purchase the boxes I and others are sure to host them for you if electricity/heat is a problem.

[Yoxxy]

This should be the case/motherboard combo to buy.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101133

The other 1U cases besides the Supermicro are to this point not proven with heatload of a dual cloverton box.

[Movieman]

Yoxxy: Thanks for the input here.
Thats what we were missing, someone with Datacenter experience.:clap:

[o2bme]

@Yoxxy Wow, I really appreciate your feedback. You obviously gave it some thought. I will tackle these separately.


How about you just sell/lease the unmetered rackspace, and pay for the boxes with that income.

Way to busy with my day job to manage that. Besides although it is not metered we do have a throttle on concurrent bandwidth there to keep things cheaper. That of coarse does not matter as to my knowledge WCG does not need bandwidth.


I am going to be frank with you on this one. If you use 100mbit rackspace to run WCG which uses 40-50 megs a month you are making a mistake.

This is some rack space we already rent. It is one of several that are used for my development team and does not house our real apps, those are hands off nothing else in there! The 10U I was thinking of using was space that is sitting there now empty, already paid for.


A.) He will need datacenter access, to set everything up.

Already got that, have servers running there now – Got our access cards for the elevator and everything.


B.) There is no way he should overclock as if he restarts the computer he has to have DATACENTER staff hard reboot it for him which usually costs around $75. You are talking about putting in all the testing work at home than lugging the box to the datacenter, or sending it in to have someone else do it and pay them. Grabbing an IP and running it from home.

We have as part of our agreement the ability to have staff reboot. Also, I am putting an entire support team in KC and they are going to be going to the center when needed so reboots are covered. This is not, sorry but as important as I find the cause, mission critical. If one or 2 are down for a day here or there we will be ok. We have windows servers running there so we are prepared to handle the expected reboots.


C.) He will need to run Linux more than likely, as Windows licensing fees will cost as much as the servers.

I agree here, but considering the number of servers (small overall) windows XP for the 775’s or vista for the clovertown (Movieman how is xp pro w/ dual quad cores?) we can do either. My VP Engineering is a Linux maniac and loves this stuff. He is actually the one that is going to have to manage these, but he is up for that.


D.) Server parts cost 40-50&#37; more and aren't made to be overclocked, they can be but a
1U is going to kill overclocking potentional.

The 771 vs. 775 parts are much more, we are taking that into consideration. We have discussed the OC potential and the reality is that using a 1U 775 with little/no OC is still preferential to a 4U w/ OC. We get much more output.

All of the machines are made to be 1U; I have been putting servers together for 15 years and trust Supermicro completely for Clovertowns, if we go that route. Although the Intel 775 board is an unknown the 775 creates less heat than the clovers so I am not AS worried.

Either way we go (775 or 771) we will get one test unit and put it through its paces before buying the remainder.


E.) His budget is $10,000 which is not really much to work with when it comes to server parts.


True, once you start adding up the systems I can only get about 4-5 of the dual 775 systems and maybe 2ish Dual Clovers. 10k is all I can throw at it for now or I would be putting blades in there, but as long as we get a lot of performance try to help and have fun…

[Movieman]

I run Win2K3 server ent on the clovers.
Didn't think that XP would function with them BUT nobugging has XP on his clover and it is working.
Live and learn.

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Yoxxy: Thanks for the input here.
Thats what we were missing, someone with Datacenter experience.:clap:

Suck ares :stick:



J/K Buddy :p:

[meshmesh]

....... nobugging has XP on his clover and it is working.
Live and learn.

That is how people run their dual socket workstations. :) But it must be XP Pro, not XP home as stated by MS (June 2005) (http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/multicore.mspx)


Microsoft Windows XP Professional and Microsoft Windows XP Home ........... are licensed per installation and not per processor. Windows XP Professional can support up to two processors regardless of the number of cores on the processor. Microsoft Windows XP Home supports one processor.

[o2bme]

Thanks meshmesh, I thought pro would see 2 processors but it has been a couple of years so I was not sure.

The things you forget when you get out of it for just a couple of years!

[Movieman]

Thanks meshmesh, I thought pro would see 2 processors but it has been a couple of years so I was not sure.

The things you forget when you get out of it for just a couple of years!

I was always thought that XP Pro would see a max of 2 physical and 4 logical.
Tosses that theory all to hell.:D
Also nobugging has media edition on his clover..

[phelan1777]

:O

me and my RD-30 will go play in the corner. I see im not at your lvls yet.

:slap:


<<<Pats naekah on the shoulder, its okay bud, we are not on their level yet, because they are in a TOTALLY different class,

Your RD will work more then well for your desktop. That is high end for WC here on XS.


<<<goes to IM Noobtheleet about his Phase unit.:D

[Kayin]

It just occurred to me that I'll be getting into the heavy iron category (albeit not as far as you guys) very soon...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't running Ubuntu BOINC on that dual Xeon box totally blow away the work I could do with say, XP BOINC? I plan on running Ubuntu anyway, as I'm very familiar and comfortable with it, my SCSI stuff already has support, and I can run SketchUp and such in it. I MAY dual boot XP if I can be arsed to find my OEM licenses, but that's not likely...

I had heard that elsewhere, but I wanted to verify that (as well as for those running WCG that don't know it already) before I install...

[o2bme]

Kayin;2196134']Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't running Ubuntu BOINC on that dual Xeon box totally blow away the work I could do with say, XP BOINC?...

I was wondering that myself. It seems from what I read support for windows is much stronger that of others. Somebody correct us both because Linux or whatever would save the OS licensing.

Update on the server: I have not been sitting idle on this! I have a couple of processors in an in-basket just waiting to be ordered for the testing server. I have sent the following emails to as many distributors & retailers I can find carrying this motherboard to try and make sure we get the right revision #:

‘Hello,

My company is looking at Intel’s S3000PTH for an appliance server we are building. I need to get 2-20 for research and testing for capabilities requirements. Now the rub – we need to make sure they are of the correct PBA revision number to support some of the processors we are going to be testing.

Below is from Intel’s web site:
The Intel® Server Board S3000PT board revision should be -205 or higher. You can verify the Product Board Assembly (PBA) number by looking at the white sticker marking on the baseboard. The PBA number is in a format xxxxxx-xxx, where the first 6 alpha-numeric characters represents the board SKU, and the last 3 digit represent the board revision. Note : The PBA number is also printed on the boxboard label which also denotes the supported processor.

If you could confirm availability of boards with this revision number for quad processor support I will immediately order 2 to get things moving. Following that I would be interested in the pricing for the 18 more boards needed to complete our testing.

I thank you in advance for your prompt reply and look forward to doing business with your company.

Sincerely,’


Hopefully we will hear back soon so we can get this test machine started.

[o2bme]

Kayin;2196134']It just occurred to me that I'll be getting into the heavy iron category (albeit not as far as you guys) very soon...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't running Ubuntu BOINC on that dual Xeon box totally blow away the work I could do with say, XP BOINC? I plan on running Ubuntu anyway, as I'm very familiar and comfortable with it, my SCSI stuff already has support, and I can run SketchUp and such in it. I MAY dual boot XP if I can be arsed to find my OEM licenses, but that's not likely...

I had heard that elsewhere, but I wanted to verify that (as well as for those running WCG that don't know it already) before I install...

Can you let me know how that works for you? I am interested in how well it runs. Good luck and have fun with the iron.

[o2bme]

I finally heard back last night from the only company to try and confirm the revision for me: ComputerHQ.com: http://www.computerhq.com/products/partinfo-id-818474.html

These are the numbers they gave me:
MM#888003
Batch# CNAZ729637
Model# S3000PT
Version# D72613206

I am going to go ahead and order 2 for testing. There seemed to be some interest with these boards so I will post the progress & results.
I will get the evercase from newegg. Sad part is I am in DC all next week so I won’t be able to play until then. Expect photos then.

[Movieman]

I finally heard back last night from the only company to try and confirm the revision for me: ComputerHQ.com: http://www.computerhq.com/products/partinfo-id-818474.html

These are the numbers they gave me:
MM#888003
Batch# CNAZ729637
Model# S3000PT
Version# D72613206

I am going to go ahead and order 2 for testing. There seemed to be some interest with these boards so I will post the progress & results.
I will get the evercase from newegg. Sad part is I am in DC all next week so I won’t be able to play until then. Expect photos then.

Glad to hear you heard back. I haven't received an answer yet from them.
Rule of thumb in Washington,DC: Don't go out after sundown(6pm) unless it's to get in the cab at the curb and same coming home.
Smart to travel in pairs there at night..
Be street smart and know whats ahead and behind you always.;)
DC isn't Omaha,Nebraska so be carefull.

[o2bme]

Glad to hear you heard back. I haven't received an answer yet from them.
Rule of thumb in Washington,DC: Don't go out after sundown(6pm) unless it's to get in the cab at the curb and same coming home.
Smart to travel in pairs there at night..
Be street smart and know whats ahead and behind you always.;)
DC isn't Omaha,Nebraska so be carefull.


Yes, it only took about 5 emails w/ them but they were trying to answer my questions. They will RMA if they don’t work for me but I will probably have to pay a re-stocking.

I have spent at least 8 weeks in DC over the past year and I love it. It’s really not a 10th as scary as it used to be. I love going out at night in Georgetown or even downtown, and have walked back to my hotel a few times. I have honestly debated looking for a place out there. There are still parts I would not stop in, and I do always pay attention, but I have never felt uncomfortable.

[o2bme]

Ok, but I think there are two versions of the board. I am not talking of the revisions / bois. The orientation of the power connectors are different in each version. One horizontal and one vertical.

May not matter, but better to make sure that the one you are getting works for the EverCase power supplies. These are not standard 24 pin MB connectors (I think 2x9 pin?). The order part numbers are listed in the bottom of the table in the startup guide (link) (http://epsds3000pt.fasternetwork.com/tkdetails.aspx?S=1&P=3).



Yes. 1GBP = 1 USD seems to be the going exchange rate for computer related stuff. Story of my life. Last week, I updated my PC Tools Spyware Doctor annual database subscription. Goes for $19.99 for US residents. I paid them online £24.99 (~$45) for the same download service!

Moving my response over here, we seemed to be hijacking Yoxxy’s thread.

You remain 1 step ahead of me on this research meshmesh; I was worried about making sure the part # was correct. That link helped – I believe the H in s3000pth is for the horizontal board. We just need to confirm that is what the Evercase uses, and I have yet to be able to. It should, I think the vertical power connector is for the blade chassis.

Those prices are outrageous; we need to setup distribution through Ireland to get parts to you suffering people!

[[XC] serlv]

You remain 1 step ahead of me on this research meshmesh

Nobody beats meshmesh in doing the research!

[[XC] riptide]

Those prices are outrageous; we need to setup distribution through Ireland to get parts to you suffering people!

Yes, I'll be willing to house everthing.... and provide free stress testing should the need arrive. :D

Where do I sign.

[Okda]

I am putting a kentsfield rig together today with a TT Ultra-120 so I'll see how it is and report back to you:)

i won't expect very good results from this cooler specially since it is not the extreme

[meshmesh]

I finally heard back last night from the only company to try and confirm the revision for me: ComputerHQ.com: http://www.computerhq.com/products/partinfo-id-818474.html

These are the numbers they gave me:
MM#888003
Intel MM# for (http://www.intel.com/design/servers/boards/s3000pt/accessories/) "Boxed 4-pack, horizontal power connector"


Batch# CNAZ729637
Model# S3000PT
Version# D72613206

Maybe ??


I am going to go ahead and order 2 for testing. There seemed to be some interest with these boards so I will post the progress & results.
I will get the evercase from newegg. Sad part is I am in DC all next week so I won’t be able to play until then. Expect photos then.

have a safe trip.

[o2bme]

riptide;2221551']Yes, I'll be willing to house everthing.... and provide free stress testing should the need arrive. :D

Where do I sign.

:D @riptide, You truly are a giver! Are you actually in Ireland?


Maybe ??

Here is to hoping! They also gave me this:

Their barcode looked like this:

AZPT70622309PBAD6009-206

Its one number shorter than the one Intel showed but is higher than the -205
I was tempted to order just one to be safe but wanted to get moving w/ this.


have a safe trip.

Thanks, it’s filled with important meetings so I appreciate it.

[brot]

http://hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=553

something like that will be kinda good performance per rackunit ;)

[o2bme]

Yeah, 16 cores is sweet but look how much space you take up to get there, 4U. In 4U I can place 10 x3220 Motherboards giving me 40 cores of performance. And I do not think I would be close to approaching the cost of that SUN monster. 43K for 8 processors - I love SUN boxes but just can't see it being worth it. Especially for Boinc'ing. That pricing would justify me spending 7500.00 per U to get 4 5350's in that Supermicro box w/ dual servers. That would be 16 X5350 (56 cores!) and cost 30K instead. Or keep with the dual server 1U approach and have 4 of them - 8 X3220's and 32 cores for around 8800.00

I hope for both Suns and AMDs sake that they come up with something to really worry Intel again; we are the ones that benefit there. Problem is that thing does not come close to performance/price. Does not help that Sun still seems to price their servers with the dot com era profit margin!

Seperate Question to all: The last of the parts are almost here for the first test dual x3220 box so: Ubuntu server or desktop for these things.

[jspace]

I think Ubuntu server is for just that, servers. What I gather from this (http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition) page is that the server edition runs your PHP, Apache, mail, and the like. My vote is stay with the desktop versions. I know with Ubuntu you can set up a VNC server to monitor in Windows. If you don't want to run a GUI you can setup SSH and use Putty in Windows. Just don't ask me how to do that! Maybe the server version would work better. :censored: now I got myself all confused. What was I recommending again?

It probably comes down to what you need and your knowledge of linux and how that kind of stuff works. Maybe try Xubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/xubuntu) or another XFCE based desktop?

[brot]

It looks to me if the server edition requires more preknowledge of ubuntu and how things work.
"The Ubuntu Server has no open ports after the installation and contains only the essential software needed to build a secure server."
(from http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition)
sounds good. :)

[Movieman]

From all the different ideas,approaches,etc, I think the dual Q6600 at 3000mhz is the best approach.
24K from one 1U and with cpu drop in July, reasonable priced.
That quad clover 1U will produce a possible 40K a day BUT at what cost?
Huge from what I can see and when it comes time to upgrade your costs stay huge and then you have that factor of the amount of heat being produced by 4 clovers in a 1U.SM may be good in their designs but that is a lot of heat to deal with in that small a space.

[o2bme]

That’s the current line of thinking. The cpu’s (x3220), Evercase 1U, & memory should be here tomorrow. The hard drives just showed up but the motherboards have been a pain, after ordering the site ComputerHQ had some trouble w/ their address verification and my order. Did not get it straightened out until this morning so they should be here when I get back from DC Thursday night.

Going to test this 1st one until price drop and buy rest of farm.

[Jaco]

Anyone knows when the new quad stepping (G0 ?) will be available?
I've heard it has a lower TDP . Produces less heat , needs less volts and better overclocking I hope.

[meshmesh]

By the way, newegg has this cheep ram:

OCZ Gold Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 4-4-4-12 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227078) for $72 shipped after rebate (ends 18 June).

Wonder whether it is good buy for this appication, given it will be OCed via BSEL to 333 fsb.

Note: RAM is 1.9V not 1.8V. Don't know if that is a problem.

[o2bme]

I actually ordered those for one of the servers. I ordered a Kingston ECC pair for the other for comparison.

[o2bme]

It’s been a while since I posted on this and you guys gave so much input into picking the parts I thought I would post. That and I am at wits end w/ this case so I am going to vent and take suggestions.

I have been working on this for the past month or so – more than expected travel has kept me from playing as much as I might have liked. To update I went with:

Intel s3000pt motherboard (x2)
Xeon 3220 (x2)
Evercase dual node 1u server case
WD 80 gig sata hd (x2)
2 gig ram for each board (OCZ non ECC for 1 board – Kingston ECC for the other)
Ubuntu 7.04
-and Radio Shack Circuit Writer for cpu mod to 1333.

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/evercase.jpg

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/Picture 46.jpg

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/Picture 47.jpg

First task was to put one together and try the mod on the 3220. And then to remove it, redo, and try again…and again…well lets just say no go – with the mod in place the board will not boot – no bios screen, nothing. I updated the bios still no go.

Removed mod and everything works great. Setup Ubuntu and bionc (small learning curve – my 1st linux install), really like it and must say it seems to run well. Not too loud – well kind of – with just the one server running. Fans quiet down after booting.

Bios gives no evident way to change any speed settings. But I still like this board. Can’t say exactly why – No OC & No 1333 support but it just seems straight forward basic/simple.

Boinc benchmarks: (running version 5.4.11 this is the Ubuntu version should I upgrade?)
2161 / 6953
2160 / 7138
2147 / 7067

Would like some feedback on those numbers.

Now this case – Ever Case – initial thoughts where that it’s a pretty cool case.


A little light on quality control though; at first I noticed all of the connectors to the switches and power supply plug in needed to be tightened. But Then I noticed this
‘groove’ the top of the case was supposed to slide into was at about a 45 degree bend upwards and slightly to the side. Before I could get the top on I had to use a wrench to bend the metal in place.

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/Picture 127.jpg

With that done I went ahead and installed the 2nd server. Another small complaint in the fans are right in front of the motherboard fan connectors so that plugging them in blocks the fan a bit. Not normally a big problem but there is not that much fan surface to begin with. Now with the 2 nodes going I did notice it was a LOT louder. This thing was sitting in front of an AC unit so it should not be heating up too badly but the new node was running the fans at full speed 24/7. When I checked I found that the heat sink had not screwed in correctly. Trying to fix it I discovered it would not screw in 2 of the 4 at all. It grabbed them at an angle and I thought it had gone in but it will not, at all – just spins at the top. I have it apart again but cannot figure a solution on this one. I had hoped the heat sink support or whatever that thing is called could be removed but not without a drill!

Red circles are not threaded correctly or at least will not let the heatsink in:
http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/Picture 124.jpg

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/evercase/Picture 128.jpg


I might have to try a dremel to cut the top off the miss-threaded parts.

Now with the price cut on the way the decision on what case to use back up in the air. I do like these boards but I am thinking DDTUNG was right - throw some good cheap boards on shelves downstairs and let them run without a case.

[Jaco]

really beautiful :up:

What kind of psu is in there?

[__Miguel_]

Jaco;2305999']really beautiful :up:

What kind of psu is in there?
Last time I checked, that case comes bundled with a high-efficiency 900W proprietary form factor PSU...

Oh, wait, that's the dual board, quad 5xxx quad-core Supermicro case, with the PSU in the middle of the case, not this one (or I'm messing everything up... :lol:). Those look like a pair of 400~500W high efficiency PSUs...

I really like this kind of boards. Shame they don't come in a wider variety (and cheaper prices... :lol:)

Cheers.

Miguel

[littleowl]

well if it is too much of a problem just send it my way and I will use it. hehehe

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

all I can say is :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

[__Miguel_]

well if it is too much of a problem just send it my way and I will use it. hehehe
X2!

I'll even throw in P&P costs (that is ONLY P&P costs :rolleyes: :D)... :ROTF:

Ok, now seriously, if you need something we can help you with, you know you just need to ask, right?

Good luck setting everything up. Also, because of 1U space constraints, why not creating something more "aired"? I was thinking about just stacking the boards using their holes as the support... It could be something like

bolt (or is it nut?)
spacer
board
spacer
bolt
support beam
bolt
spacer
board
etc
.
.
.
metal base

This way you can not have them simply laying about, organized, and you should be able to got some sort of personalised cooling system in place without too much effort.

Oh, and I would recommend a particle-free room, or at the very least, come vacuuming from time to time... Things left out in the open get SOOOOO dusty it hurts...

Cheers.

Miguel

[Movieman]

First issue: The missdrilled backing plate. Does that part itself remove or did I read you as saying it's permanently attached? If so how? Poprivet or screwed?
If either of those we can fix if we can get a replacement from the manufacturer and they should be willing to send one.
2nd issue: the 1333FSB mod.
This one bothers me as the board itself from the orginal specs should accept a 1333FSB cpu.
I've no doubts that you did the mod correctly so the issue comes back to the board itelf. I doubt there are jumpers on the board that are the issue as it should be an auto sensing setup so all I'm left with is that the bios isn't functioning as it should or they sent you an older revision of the board.
Tell me again, which chipset on this board?

Just took the bull by the horns: emailed Intel, described the 1333FSB issue and asked if this board will recognise it.
Waiting to hear back from them saying there is no 1333FSB chip as yet so how could we be doing this!:ROTF:

[rcofell]

Wow, those boards would be perfect for dedicated crunching farms, granted you could overclock well with them. Though in terms of cost I'm not sure if that'd be the best value(resale value included), but for processing density :slobber:

I've been thinking about once I eventually get enough time/space/money I'll work on getting a number dedicated *nix crunchers, so I can have fun writing some perl scripts to make management easy/fun(look what working with perl at work has done to me :shakes: ... :D )

[STEvil]

You may be able to "repair" the threads by placing the heatsink on the base without the motherboard and cpu installed and attaching it, or running the screws in from the backside if they go all the way through.

EDIT - What PLL is on the motherboard? This is the mod you're doing for 1333fsb, right? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132900

[o2bme]

First, as usual thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the assistance…and the drool mysticmerlin! And that would actually be cool idea Miguel but these already have a home in Kansas City sitting in a data center – crunching & using their AC.


Jaco;2305999']really beautiful :up:

What kind of psu is in there?

Thanks Jaco; they call them small custom, 275 Watt, 80+ (I believe efficiency claims).
They say Enhance Electronics on them Model: ENP-3927B

http://www.evercase.com/2product/R913-PTS.html


2nd issue: the 1333FSB mod.
This one bothers me as the board itself from the orginal specs should accept a 1333FSB cpu.
I've no doubts that you did the mod correctly so the issue comes back to the board itelf. I doubt there are jumpers on the board that are the issue as it should be an auto sensing setup so all I'm left with is that the bios isn't functioning as it should or they sent you an older revision of the board.
Tell me again, which chipset on this board?

Just took the bull by the horns: emailed Intel, described the 1333FSB issue and asked if this board will recognise it.
Waiting to hear back from them saying there is no 1333FSB chip as yet so how could we be doing this!:ROTF:

Thanks Dave, I just noticed your edit! I would like to know if what they say. Meanwhile I can’t find anything stating 1333 support. I know we thought we saw it somewhere before but I think they just claim 1066.

I love the diplomacy though ‘I am sure you did the mod correctly’. At least one of the attempts had to be right. The revision is pretty recent – that we had to make sure of to get the quad core support. The specs say the Intel 3000 chipset? Anything more exact ask and I will look it up on the actual machine. It is off right now and I am taking the family to dinner soon.

I don’t know about OC’ing these at all since the bios gives me no options for adjusting pretty much anything. I have never seen such a clean bios page.


EDIT - What PLL is on the motherboard? This is the mod you're doing for 1333fsb, right? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132900

PLL? Tell me where to look. And yes thats the mod.

Now to the case. Huge endorsements to EverCase right now for stepping up. I had the RMA form ready to print and fax but decided to email sales here in San Jose first to see what they had to say – and ask them about the 10 node 4u case I can’t find.

My email went out at 12:07 pm I got a reply from them at 12:12 pm telling me that the X-PAD as they call it can be pulled out and he is sending me replacements! Also the R747 case will be in about the 10th and he invited me down to check it out if I want.

I told him I was going to order more of this one or the R747 and he offered me quantity discounts. Not bad at all. Too bad I am in KC & DC all next week so I have to wait until I get back and I had wanted to install it in KC next week while I was there.

[STEvil]

get pics ;)

PLL will be a long multi-legged IC near the CPU's or northbridge probably. It will probably start with "ICS" or "CY" as those are the ones Intel is most fond of using (Intel own CY, which is the new company name for ICS iirc..). May be a winbond PLL as well, but less likely.

For example, the boards a lot of us are using for our dual wood/clover setups (Supermicro X7DAE, X7DAL-E) both use "ICS932S401EGLF" for the clock generator (PLL).

Supermicro has this conveniently listed on their website (X7DAL-E used for reference) http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5000X/X7DAL-E.cfm

edit - added pic, I think thats the one we want right there.

[Movieman]

First, as usual thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the assistance…and the drool mysticmerlin! And that would actually be cool idea Miguel but these already have a home in Kansas City sitting in a data center – crunching & using their AC.



Thanks Jaco; they call them small custom, 275 Watt, 80+ (I believe efficiency claims).
They say Enhance Electronics on them Model: ENP-3927B

http://www.evercase.com/2product/R913-PTS.html



Thanks Dave, I just noticed your edit! I would like to know if what they say. Meanwhile I can’t find anything stating 1333 support. I know we thought we saw it somewhere before but I think they just claim 1066.

I love the diplomacy though ‘I am sure you did the mod correctly’. At least one of the attempts had to be right. The revision is pretty recent – that we had to make sure of to get the quad core support. The specs say the Intel 3000 chipset? Anything more exact ask and I will look it up on the actual machine. It is off right now and I am taking the family to dinner soon.

I don’t know about OC’ing these at all since the bios gives me no options for adjusting pretty much anything. I have never seen such a clean bios page.



PLL? Tell me where to look. And yes thats the mod.

Now to the case. Huge endorsements to EverCase right now for stepping up. I had the RMA form ready to print and fax but decided to email sales here in San Jose first to see what they had to say – and ask them about the 10 node 4u case I can’t find.

My email went out at 12:07 pm I got a reply from them at 12:12 pm telling me that the X-PAD as they call it can be pulled out and he is sending me replacements! Also the R747 case will be in about the 10th and he invited me down to check it out if I want.

I told him I was going to order more of this one or the R747 and he offered me quantity discounts. Not bad at all. Too bad I am in KC & DC all next week so I have to wait until I get back and I had wanted to install it in KC next week while I was there.

I buzzed a guy this afternoon at Intel, told him the story and he said that he saw that board on a list for updated bios so that it would work with 1333FSB chips..Read that as one is being done or will be done shortly..
I think we all assumed( that nasty word) that if it would work with the quads it would also accept Kunaak's 1333FSB mod..evidently not..
That's good news on the bases being replaced, so get them and get this beastie running at stock speed, that will give you a baseline and I bet it's good for close to 18-20K a day..
That ain't too shabby!:D

[o2bme]

get pics ;)

PLL will be a long multi-legged IC near the CPU's or northbridge probably. It will probably start with "ICS" or "CY" as those are the ones Intel is most fond of using (Intel own CY, which is the new company name for ICS iirc..). May be a winbond PLL as well, but less likely.

For example, the boards a lot of us are using for our dual wood/clover setups (Supermicro X7DAE, X7DAL-E) both use "ICS932S401EGLF" for the clock generator (PLL).

Supermicro has this conveniently listed on their website (X7DAL-E used for reference) http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/5000X/X7DAL-E.cfm

edit - added pic, I think thats the one we want right there.

Thanks, I think you are correct:

ICS
6321799
0651
954108CFLF

[__Miguel_]

o2bme, I was just referring to your comment "throw some good cheap boards on shelves downstairs and let them run without a case".

It seems, though, I was at least half asleep when I read your post, and I didn't notice you were just talking about what DDTUNG said AND also forgot to remember those things are meant to go to a rack... Talk about distraction... hehehe

Anyway, thank you for commenting on the setup I proposed. If there's anything else, just ask. Now I'm letting the big boys (those who actually understand about server-class hardware) help you with the other problems, and hopefully learning something in the process.

Cheers.

Miguel

[o2bme]

o2bme, I was just referring to your comment "throw some good cheap boards on shelves downstairs and let them run without a case".

It seems, though, I was at least half asleep when I read your post, and I didn't notice you were just talking about what DDTUNG said AND also forgot to remember those things are meant to go to a rack... Talk about distraction... hehehe

Anyway, thank you for commenting on the setup I proposed. If there's anything else, just ask. Now I'm letting the big boys (those who actually understand about server-class hardware) help you with the other problems, and hopefully learning something in the process.

Cheers.

Miguel

I like creative solutions. You should see mine for my main machine. One thing with this is cooling, which the datacenter provides. But while testing here I use a more...home grown approach:

http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/coolit1.JPG
http://www.taylormail.com/imagehost/coolit2.JPG

With the AC running and one of the servers running it is actually quiet enough to work in here. But when I turned on the other it became way too loud - thats how I found the problem with the heat sink pad; the second server fans where blowing max 24/7 and although there are only 3 40mm, these things are loud.

Thanks again
John

[STEvil]

I can get those 40mm fans at a store near here, but they want too much for them.

I'll dig around and see what I can find on the PLL, thanks.

Got this on MSN, reminded me of this thread ;)

http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/drfun.1999-11-15.jpg
http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/drfun.1999-11-15.jpg

[rcofell]

Interesting, I was looking on newegg to see what they have for small motherboards and found these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121061). Reminded me alot of those s3000pt's, although they're pico-btx, so about 2 inches wider, but 2.5in shorter. I'm just suprised they only cost $120 when mini-itx boards for amd/intel processors are usually in the $200 range. Although I guess they're actually 8inx10.5in vs ~6.7inx6.7in for mini-itx, thought they were closer in size.

[__Miguel_]

o2bme, it still amazes me that you have a rack in your home office/den/whatever you call it. The AC on the front is nothing (though it IS an interesting an ingenious solution to keep in mind, for those who can afford it :p:)

rcofwell, the G and Q chipsets from the 96x generation (and everything before that with an IGP, for that matter) are simply lousy. The IGP is terrible and the OC capabilities are simply disgusting. If you are really considering mATX or pico-BTX (good luck finding afordable BTX cases, though...), go for something like the F-I90HD from Abit (X1250-based with some OC capabilities) or rather something G33-based (P5K-VM from Asus or GA-G33M-DS2R from Gigabyte), which are OC monsters (for mATX boards, that is...).

Mini-ITX boards are more expensive because of the extra hassle routing data paths and the general "it's smaller and industrial" argument. There are some 945G and G965-based C2D-ready boards out there, but they are REALLY expensive (last one I saw went as high as €375, way above the $400 mark).

If you want to throw as many boards as you can into a case with the lease amount of money invested, I'd go for mATX (though I must admit AM a bit of a mATX fanboy). Mini-ITX is simply too expensive, full ATX can be too big, and DTX is not available yet...

Cheers.

Miguel

P.S.: The XS forum has the nasty habit of not sending me e-mail updates, so I apologize for the late reply.

[Movieman]

Info from Intel:
Looks like those boards aren't getting a 1333FSB bios soon.
Wish I had better news but I don't..
Got this from Intel:
Hello David,

Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Technical Support.

I really appreciate your feedback.

You can try to update the BIOS and check the behavior. However, I double-checked with the BIOS of the server board and I did not find any option to “over clock” the processor. Bear in mind that the option is not present, I do not want to provide fault expectations about the board features. And again, I would not suggest you to try these procedures on Intel(R) server boards, though I understand the reason why your company does so.

If there is any other question that you would like to ask, or if there is anything else in which we can assist you, please let me know.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance.

Regards,

XXXXXXXXXXX
Intel(R) Technical Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I don't think he ever understood what I was getting at.
I didn't want to come right out and say:" Yea, well we use some conductive ink and make your 1066 cpu's into 1333 cpu's and I want to know whats needed to make that work in this board..":rolleyes:

[o2bme]

o2bme, it still amazes me that you have a rack in your home office/den/whatever you call it. The AC on the front is nothing (though it IS an interesting an ingenious solution to keep in mind, for those who can afford it :p:)

Thanks Miguel but the true rack is in a data center in KC, (a city in the Midwest - I am in the San Francisco area), I already lease space from. That is why I was so mad the case fought with me so much; we were out there last week putting servers in the center so I could have added this one then. Hopefully I will get back w/in a week or so because this thing is too loud without my AC blowing on it and too hot to put downstairs where I have metal shelving setup and holding several other servers.


Info from Intel:
Looks like those boards aren't getting a 1333FSB bios soon.
Wish I had better news but I don't..

Dave, I had a feeling but thank you for making that effort. I liked his ‘but I understand why you would’ comment.

I must admit with the price/performance/heat I am almost ready to give up on the datacenter plan and just buy barebones machines to put in my shelves downstairs. I tend to overdo things and this plan seems to take too much of everything to get moving. Still I do like these dual machines once up and running.

Now update: I drilled out the trouble cpu ‘pad’ with a 6mm drill bit – easy enough – and used the one that came with the Cooljag heat sink. And now – oh so much quieter! Both are running ‘well’ it seems. I want to move them downstairs and see how they do w/ the non ac environment but they will get louder. I need to make space to play with my chiller!:D

[Movieman]

Thanks Miguel but the true rack is in a data center in KC, (a city in the Midwest - I am in the San Francisco area), I already lease space from. That is why I was so mad the case fought with me so much; we were out there last week putting servers in the center so I could have added this one then. Hopefully I will get back w/in a week or so because this thing is too loud without my AC blowing on it and too hot to put downstairs where I have metal shelving setup and holding several other servers.



Dave, I had a feeling but thank you for making that effort. I liked his ‘but I understand why you would’ comment.

I must admit with the price/performance/heat I am almost ready to give up on the datacenter plan and just buy barebones machines to put in my shelves downstairs. I tend to overdo things and this plan seems to take too much of everything to get moving. Still I do like these dual machines once up and running.

Now update: I drilled out the trouble cpu ‘pad’ with a 6mm drill bit – easy enough – and used the one that came with the Cooljag heat sink. And now – oh so much quieter! Both are running ‘well’ it seems. I want to move them downstairs and see how they do w/ the non ac environment but they will get louder. I need to make space to play with my chiller!:D

30 years working in Management taught me never to be afraid to re-evaluate a business decision when new information became available.
Better to learn after one unit is purchased than 10.
The downside is that these won't do 1333FSB now or in the near future if ever.
The upside is that for the cost it is still a viable alternative.
Set this one up in the basement and let it run for 60 days and then lets look at output vs cost.

[o2bme]

60 Days, never be that patient - I already went through that many getting here and now with price cuts upon us! Actually plan is simple - what is a basic but good MB/case?/memory combination to put one of these downstairs on my shelves, just cheap in mass. Then compare quickly vs. just getting more of these and putting them in KC. I should be back there within a few weeks. This one is already downstairs and doing ok considering it was 80 today down there. There are only 1 or 2 weeks per year where it becomes that warm - even when hot it rarely goes over 72-74ish.

[Movieman]

60 Days, never be that patient - I already went through that many getting here and now with price cuts upon us! Actually plan is simple - what is a basic but good MB/case?/memory combination to put one of these downstairs on my shelves, just cheap in mass. Then compare quickly vs. just getting more of these and putting them in KC. I should be back there within a few weeks. This one is already downstairs and doing ok considering it was 80 today down there. There are only 1 or 2 weeks per year where it becomes that warm - even when hot it rarely goes over 72-74ish.

I'll stay out of the 775 discussions, not my thing..;)

[o2bme]

What does everyone think of this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131187

It has video on board and 1333. Seems pretty cheap. If not instead of rack space until I decide throw one together to play.

[__Miguel_]

The P5K-VM is one heck of an OC'er. There is a thread here in XS about it. I think people are getting at least 400 FSB on those things, which is impressive for a mATX board with integrated graphics...

You might also want to check the GA-G33M-DS2R from Gigabyte, it is also a very good OC'er (and a must if you need RAID on your setup). There is also a thread about it here on XS.

It seems the G33 chipset is just about the best OC IGP chipset you can get these days. Probably the G35 will be better, but that one will only appear for Xmas holidays, or so I've read.

Cheers.

Miguel


P.S.: Anything Bearlake-based (that is, P35, G3x or X38) will handle ANY Intel LGA-775 CPU you throw at it, including 45nm-based ones, except 533-MHz FSB. Coincidentially (NOT!), Netburst-based CPUs are not officially supported, though I think all manufacturers add support for them (800-MHz FSB only).

[o2bme]

Alright, now I need a simple case/power supply setup and I will get 1 or 2 simple boxes to play with while we see what the price/performance looks like.

EDIT: OK I just need a case - I remembered Jaco and DDTUNG suggested the OP650

[__Miguel_]

Are you aiming at rackmount, desktop or tower cases?

Rackmount cases I let the big boys recomend them, I never worked with one before.

Desktop cases are overly expensive, and since you're not needing optical drives, you can just put a tower case on its side... lol

I just bought an Asus case, the TM-211. It's a mATX tower case with thumbscrews in the main panel. Simple construction but very easy to work with. It doesn't come with a PSU (thankfully... hehe), and it's basically the cheapest mATX case I've ever seen. It set me back €35 (maybe around $40, we pay extra taxes here... :p:), so it seems right. It is also a very elegant case.

Check it out here (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=7&l2=37&l3=95&l4=0&model=944&modelmenu=2). I absolutely recomend changing the included 80mm fan, it's the loudest component you will have in the case (except perhaps a X2900XT... lol). The only problem I see in the case is you can't use bigger than 92mm fans, so the most silent fans will be unavailable.

Cheers.

Miguel

[o2bme]

Are you aiming at rackmount, desktop or tower cases?

Rackmount cases I let the big boys recomend them, I never worked with one before.

Desktop cases are overly expensive, and since you're not needing optical drives, you can just put a tower case on its side... lol

I just bought an Asus case, the TM-211. It's a mATX tower case with thumbscrews in the main panel. Simple construction but very easy to work with. It doesn't come with a PSU (thankfully... hehe), and it's basically the cheapest mATX case I've ever seen. It set me back €35 (maybe around $40, we pay extra taxes here... :p:), so it seems right. It is also a very elegant case.

Check it out here (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=7&l2=37&l3=95&l4=0&model=944&modelmenu=2). I absolutely recomend changing the included 80mm fan, it's the loudest component you will have in the case (except perhaps a X2900XT... lol). The only problem I see in the case is you can't use bigger than 92mm fans, so the most silent fans will be unavailable.

Cheers.

Miguel

Thanks again Miguel, I will look at that. I need it to be wide enough to take a thermaltake 120 ultra and a tuniq tower to use on them. I am looking at non rack for 1 or 2 more 3220's with that mb we talked about. Seems so cheap for the performance I would compare vs. the rack scheme. Besides the dual node 1u box I put downstairs is running great with no AC downstairs and this week was about as hot as it gets down there.
So I have to decide, rack or simlify and go no rack.

Does anyone know of a good temp monitor that can run on XSOS?

[Movieman]

Thanks again Miguel, I will look at that. I need it to be wide enough to take a thermaltake 120 ultra and a tuniq tower to use on them. I am looking at non rack for 1 or 2 more 3220's with that mb we talked about. Seems so cheap for the performance I would compare vs. the rack scheme. Besides the dual node 1u box I put downstairs is running great with no AC downstairs and this week was about as hot as it gets down there.
So I have to decide, rack or simlify and go no rack.

Does anyone know of a good temp monitor that can run on XSOS?

PM nn_step on that..

[__Miguel_]

Thanks again Miguel, I will look at that. I need it to be wide enough to take a thermaltake 120 ultra and a tuniq tower to use on them.
Always glad to help. As for the dimensions, I will have to measure it, but I'm 100 miles away from the case right now, so I'll only be able to tell you that late Friday afternoon or early Saturday morning (late Friday night for you the latest, I guess, because of the hour difference.

However, as per Asus's website, it seems the case is 17cm wide, which means probably any cooler up to 16cm tall would fit there. I'm subtracting 1cm for 2 case plates, spacers, board PCB and socket, which doesn't seem all that much.

Anyway, if you don't mind, PM me Friday, so I don't forget to take those measurements when I get home, ok?

Cheers.

Miguel


P.S.: Please keep in mind that mATX cases are a little smaller than ATX ones. If the Tuniq doesn't fit in the TM-211, you might need to go mid-tower, since I don't remember seing mATX cases larger than 17~18cm wide... Also, the clearance between the end of the PCB and the PSU is around 0,5cm in these cases, you have to factor in the position of the socket.

[nn_step]

PM nn_step on that..

I have yet to hear a single person report that any one doesn't work. So I assume that all Temp programs for Windows work for XSOS

[o2bme]

I have yet to hear a single person report that any one doesn't work. So I assume that all Temp programs for Windows work for XSOS

Thanks guys, that was my bad - I really need to stop thinking of XSOS as Linux, I know shame :shakes:. To my defense I have not had a chance to try it yet, I will have a machine to practice on next week. Ubuntu and a monitor for it have been taking a lot of my attention.

[__Miguel_]

o2bme, I've measured the case, as I had promised.

Measuring from the top of the PCB (the socket area is "full", at the moment... lol) to the edge of the chassis frame (that is, where the side panel sits), there is a total of 155mm, or 15.5cm (I don't even want to try converting that to imperial units, and since most of the coolers' websites state both imperial and metric units, I'm sure you won't have any problems with that).

It seems I missed for around 0.5cm or so. Not that much, but it can make a difference. I do believe the TM-211 cases were slightly changed (now there's an awful "Vento" logo messing up the impressive piano-black finish in the front...), so my measurements may be wrong (in a good way, of course hehe).

I'm somewhat glad to say the Ninja fits my measurements (you'll have to work with the fan, though), but I don't see the Ultra 120 (or the new Inferno, for that matter) fitting there. Well, unless you drill a hole in the side panel, that is... :D

Good thing is, though, it seems the new G0 Q6600 are VERY cool, and can clock like monsters, which could mean the same performance without so much cooling requirements...

Cheers.

Miguel


P.S.: Like I said, most, if not all, mATX cases are narrow. The extra width is welcome in the bigger cases (for stability), but mATX cases look "fat" that way...