The pinnacle of AC pumps

[kamongear]

Packaging:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2919/1000385yj8.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000385yj8.jpg)

Side By Side with DDC:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5566/1000386ez9.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000386ez9.jpg)

Side By Side with DDC:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6335/1000387gy8.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000387gy8.jpg)

Label:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/781/1000395rh4.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000395rh4.jpg)

Bottom Label:
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4626/1000397dr5.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000397dr5.jpg)

I would like to send this out to someone who can really test it and also fab a new top as it seems it may be a bottleneck.

[nikhsub1]

Not to make you feel bad but what makes you think that is the 'pinnacle' of ac pumps? Did you see it has only a 1.6M head? I like the size but it is pretty weak - that DDC would kill it.

[Kayin]

WTH kinda DDC is that? That's what I wanna know...

[kamongear]

Not to make you feel bad but what makes you think that is the 'pinnacle' of ac pumps? Did you see it has only a 1.6M head? I like the size but it is pretty weak - that DDC would kill it.

The fact that its the AC version of the RD series.
Did you see that it only uses 14.5 watts compared to the MD-10's 35(think of what an RA-20/RA-30 might be)?


Thats not the point the DDC is a DC pump, this is comparing AC pumps.

And secondly there is no info anywhere about this pump.

[serialk11r]

Thats not the point the DDC is a DC pump.

Did you see that it only uses 14.5 watts?

ONLY 14.5W??? 1.2M of head pressure is nothing, that pump will get raped.
The pinnacle??? Where did you get that from? There are tons of AC pumps...and there are plenty of them which can fit in your case fine and will be stronger than that thing.

[kamongear]

ONLY 14.5W??? 1.2M of head pressure is nothing, that pump will get raped.


Wow you guys aren't even READING the specs. 1.2 at 12 watts. 1.6 at 14.5 watts.

Keep an open mind jeez.

Why don't you show me an AC pump with that perf/watt ratio?

[serialk11r]

Wow you guys aren't even READING the specs. 1.2 at 12 watts. 1.6 at 14.5 watts.

Keep an open mind jeez.

1.6 is still nothing...1.6m is about 5 feet...
Lets do some calculations.
160cmX1cm^2 column (I chose 1cm2 "area" because calculations are easy that way). 160mL of water weighs 160g. There are about 450 grams in a pound. That's 0.35 pounds per square centimeter. One square inch is 2.54^2 times more than one square centimeter, which is around 6.3. 0.35X6.3 is about 1.9. 1.9 psi max? That is PATHETIC. Now how much was the DDC+ again? >8 psi :)
(sorry people for annoying you guys with calculations, but I find it hard to memorize "head" and it annoys me because "head" is not the most commonly used unit of pressure...)

[kamongear]

1.6 is still nothing...1.6m is about 5 feet...


Nothing? I beg to differ.

It takes the MD-10 35 watts to achieve 1.5m with albeit with 11 l/min.

And you guys aren't at all surprised about the fact that this pump isn't anywhere on iwaki's site. Perhaps a one off?

[serialk11r]

Nothing? I beg to differ.

It takes the MD-10 35 watts to achieve 1.5m with albeit with 11 l/min.

And you guys aren't at all surprised about the fact that this pump isn't anywhere on iwaki's site. Perhaps a one off?

That's one problem. For watercooling you can pretty much give up hope of getting flow >10 LPM. That's why the max. head pressure of the pump is a lot more important. This pump's max head pressure is so low, it will definitely be a poor performer.

[kamongear]

1.6 is still nothing...1.6m is about 5 feet...
Lets do some calculations.
160cmX1cm^2 column (I chose 1cm2 "area" because calculations are easy that way). 160mL of water weighs 160g. There are about 450 grams in a pound. That's 0.35 pounds per square centimeter. One square inch is 2.54^2 times more than one square centimeter, which is around 6.3. 0.35X6.3 is about 1.9. 1.9 psi max? That is PATHETIC. Now how much was the DDC+ again? >8 psi :)
(sorry people for annoying you guys with calculations, but I find it hard to memorize "head" and it annoys me because "head" is not the most commonly used unit of pressure...)


Thank you captain obvious.

The DDC IS better than this pump and it is also a DC pump(how many times do I have to say this before you actually read it).

You are yet to find me a better AC pump.
This pump is so "pathetic" you'd be hard pressed to.

The point is how about the RA-20/RA-30. Those will be great performers.

[serialk11r]

Thank you captain obvious.

The DDC IS better than this pump and it is also a DC pump(how many times do I have to say this before you actually read it).

You are yet to find me a better AC pump.

Iwaki MD20 :) Sure you might argue it has poor efficiency and its big and whatever, but it DOES fit in your case (with some creativity), and it definitely is much more powerful and beats the s*** out of the weak pump you posted about...

[kamongear]

Iwaki MD20 :) Sure you might argue it has poor efficiency and its big and whatever, but it DOES fit in your case (with some creativity), and it definitely is much more powerful and beats the s*** out of the weak pump you posted about...

Yup its perf/watt is worse, thereby a weaker pump.

A RA-20 would theoretically dessimate it.

Your arguments are flaky at best.

[serialk11r]

Yup its perf/watt is worse, thereby a weaker pump.

A RA-20 would theoretically dessimate it.

Your arguments are flaky at best.

We don't care about performance/watt for stuff this small...
Hey, I could get a teeny weeny pump, and it WILL get better performance per watt. Do I care if it uses 15W less than a DDC+ if it can't pump water for crap? Why do you think people buy RD30s, and multiple pumps, when they KNOW efficiency will be worse?
That pump can't pump water for crap, so no matter how efficient it is, its not going to be useful unless you link a bunch of them in series.

[kamongear]

We don't care about performance/watt for stuff this small...
Hey, I could get a teeny weeny pump, and it WILL get better performance per watt. Do I care if it uses 15W less than a DDC+ if it can't pump water for crap? Why do you think people buy RD30s, and multiple pumps, when they KNOW efficiency will be worse?
That pump can't pump water for crap, so no matter how efficient it is, its not going to be useful unless you link a bunch of them in series.

It is useful because you can link a bunch of them in series.

Your looking at this so linearly. All you see is a small efficient pump and for some reason can't see any further than that and for this reason you will probably never find a better pump than the ones we have today.
But what I see is a new series by none other than iwaki itself that are the best performing AC pumps yet.

[nikhsub1]

Hmm, my MD-15R has 3.4M head and consumes 31W. I dare say that beats Your RA in watts/head ratio. And it is AC.

http://www.netbetty.com/H20/iwaki/veryclosecompare.jpg

[serialk11r]

It is useful because you can link a bunch of them in series.

Your looking at this so linearly. All you see is a small efficient pump and for some reason can't see any further than that and for this reason you will probably never find a better pump than the ones we have today.
But what I see is a new series by none other than iwaki itself that are the best performing AC pumps yet.

Lets see how many you have to link together in series to get DDC+ level performance...5.
5 of those pumps drawing 10-15W each...is that really more efficient than a SINGLE more powerful pump? Not to mention, taking up more space? And louder?
In fact, a single big pump should be more efficient than multiple small ones. So, we WANT a bigger pump, not a ton of small pumps linked together. Waste of space, waste of electricity, noisy, more expensive.
Sorry bout the post before, I made a mistake. Bigger pumps don't necessarily have worse efficiency. But getting a higher flowrate requires a good deal more energy.

[WonderSausage]

Well you have a point but somebody really, really needs to work up some CNC'd Delrin tops (fronts?) for Iwakis to make them useful because the fittings are just too damn clunky-big and the top discharge is a PITA, especially with your talk about putting them in series. That's a plumbing nightmare with top discharge.

[kamongear]

Hmm, my MD-15R has 3.4M head and consumes 31W. I dare say that beats Your RA in watts/head ratio. And it is AC.

http://www.netbetty.com/H20/iwaki/veryclosecompare.jpg

Touche but I bet an RA-15 would beat that MD-15 of yours hands down.


Lets see how many you have to link together in series to get DDC+ level performance...5.
5 of those pumps drawing 10-15W each...is that really more efficient than a SINGLE more powerful pump? Not to mention, taking up more space? And louder?
In fact, a single big pump should be more efficient than multiple small ones. So, we WANT a bigger pump, not a ton of small pumps linked together. Waste of space, waste of electricity, noisy, more expensive.

Please get out of this thread, I don't give a s*** about DC pumps.

[serialk11r]

Touche but I bet an RA-15 would beat that MD-15 of yours hands down.



Please get out of this thread, I don't give a s*** about DC pumps.

I'd like to see a bunch of those pumps you have linked together beat an MD20, and be more cost effective, quiet, and less noisy all at once. BTW I wasn't talking about DC pumps for the most part ;)
Now don't go making conclusions like that before you actually bring up the max. flow and max. head pressure of the RA15, if it even exists.

[kamongear]

I'd like to see a bunch of those pumps you have linked together beat an MD20, and be more cost effective, quiet, and less noisy all at once. BTW I wasn't talking about DC pumps for the most part ;)


Man I don't know what to say.

This thread is not abou my one little pump. It's about a whole new series of pumps.

[serialk11r]

Well where is the data on this new series of pumps? If we can see data from Iwaki on this new series, and that data warrants the use of these pumps, then you have a winner.

[NaeKuh]

uhhhhh..... sorry op, you cant go head to head against nikhsub. I would concider him at the same level as maxxracer.

And i can think of a few that would beat that too. Just because its an IWAKI doesnt mean its the pinicle.

I think a RD-30 would pwn it with a nice meanwell PSU. As for AC, i think the Pan World Pumps would also pwn it. Ive also messed with GEN-X pumps on my salt water tank. That would definitely be a better buy then that IWAKI.

But what do you imply by pinicle? because, i cant see an AC pump winning against a DC pump.

Also WTF kind of DDC is that? why does yours look supersized compared to mine?


Ummm but id take the RD-30 any day with a nice mean well 150. Wish iwaki would hurry and send alex the first batch.

[serialk11r]

uhhhhh..... sorry op, you cant go head to head against nikhsub. I would concider him at the same level as maxxracer.

And i can think of a few that would beat that too. Just because its an IWAKI doesnt mean its the pinicle.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=PI1117

Max Flow: 1190gph
Max Head: 22ft / 6.8m
Speed: 3000rpm
Fittings (Inlet/Outlet): 3/4in MPT / 3/4in MPT
Comparable to Iwaki 55RLT
Economical to run-1.2amps,110Volts


that would pwn it.
That pump is way too big for watercooling...Even Iwaki MD30 is too big (epion tells me, its 11" long and 4" in diameter :eek:) RD30 is smaller and can be used.
And another thing, just because someone has a lot of experience, doesn't mean they're gods or something. There's always places everyone makes mistakes in you know ;)

[kamongear]

Well where is the data on this new series of pumps? If we can see data from Iwaki on this new series, and that data warrants the use of these pumps, then you have a winner.

I don't know, I thought the guys here would be intruiged at its ambiguity as well.


uhhhhh..... sorry op, you cant go head to head against nikhsub. I would concider him at the same level as maxxracer.

And i can think of a few that would beat that too. Just because its an IWAKI doesnt mean its the pinicle.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=PI1117

Max Flow: 1190gph
Max Head: 22ft / 6.8m
Speed: 3000rpm
Fittings (Inlet/Outlet): 3/4in MPT / 3/4in MPT
Comparable to Iwaki 55RLT
Economical to run-1.2amps,110Volts


that would pwn it.


Ummm but id take the RD-30 any day with a nice mean well 150. Wish iwaki would hurry and send alex the first batch.

It would also consume 170w.

Afaik the MD-15 is the only one that beats it in perf/watt.

[serialk11r]

I apologize, I deleted the post I just made because I did not say it "properly".
You are trying to compare efficiency. But efficiency does not equal max. head pressure/power consumed. Efficiency is hydraulic pumping power/energy consumed (energy put into pumping the water vs. power consumed), not max. head pressure. And it DOES make a big difference. Would you think it would be fair to say, the D5 is a few times less efficient than the DDC+?

[kamongear]

I apologize, I deleted the post I just made because I did not say it "properly".
You are trying to compare efficiency. But efficiency does not equal max. head pressure/power consumed. Efficiency is hydraulic pumping power/energy consumed (energy put into pumping the water vs. power consumed), not max. head pressure. And it DOES make a big difference. Would you think it would be fair to say, the D5 is a few times less efficient than the DDC+?

I would think the D5 is a few times less efficient than the DDC, atleast for our application.

In reality I do not want to compare efficiency of this pump but of this design.

[serialk11r]

I would think the D5 is a few times less efficient than the DDC, atleast for our application.

In reality I do not want to compare efficiency of this pump but of this design.

D5 at zero flow would be a few times less efficient. AT ZERO FLOW.
This is why we don't use high flow, low pressure pumps, because they fail to pump decent amounts of water due to the restriction of waterblocks.
If you want to compare efficiency, you must take flowrate into account as well.

[grudgelord]

Well you have a point but somebody really, really needs to work up some CNC'd Delrin tops (fronts?) for Iwakis to make them useful because the fittings are just too damn clunky-big and the top discharge is a PITA, especially with your talk about putting them in series. That's a plumbing nightmare with top discharge.

I'd be all over it if someone were to make replacement tops with appropriate sized apertures and thread size/pitch. Hey Petraaaaa...!

However, I just took some measurements and it would be possible to tap the inlet and outlet of the stock tops if you were daring and very careful. Of course this depends on the fitting size on the volute (mine are 7/8" ID inlet and 1/2" ID outlet with no threads).

I might consider ordering a spare volute and giving it a try if the cost isn't too absurd.

[serialk11r]

Well actually most people getting Iwaki pumps for watercooling won't be putting them in series (lol an additional RD30 or 20 won't do much at all) so its not a big issue really. Its not easy to make a new top for it...

[kamongear]

Well actually most people getting Iwaki pumps for watercooling won't be putting them in series (lol an additional RD30 or 20 won't do much at all) so its not a big issue really. Its not easy to make a new top for it...

This top is pretty simple although there is some obstruction at the inlet that seems not to be helping.

[serialk11r]

This top is pretty simple although there is some obstruction at the inlet that seems not to be helping.

But getting the correct dimensions, making sure it works properly, then putting it into production and selling it is complicated...

[Digz]

Isn't an Eheim a AC pump with 1.6mtr head

:D :D :D

[kamongear]

But getting the correct dimensions, making sure it works properly, then putting it into production and selling it is complicated...

Its as simple as making a ddc top.

[grudgelord]

This top is pretty simple although there is some obstruction at the inlet that seems not to be helping.

That's the front spindle seat & bearing and unfortunately there's no way to delete it as the impeller would drag on the rear casing wall. I figure that'd be the biggest hurdle to fabricating a delrin replacement volute for PC watercooling.

[WonderSausage]

Is there any point in debating flow/watt efficiency on AC-powered pumps unless we're counting kWh like Al Gore on a particularly anal day?

Seems like the only competitive measure of AC-powered pumps should be flow/NOISE efficiency.

WS

[nattoNrice]

y the hell would u want a replacement top for the rd30!? I would'nt let delrin touch my baby...it is the most piss weak plastic i can think of to replace the nuclear fallout shelter that is the front of my pump. In my eyes u would just be compromising the iwaki's greatest feature, its reliability.

Instead u should just grow up and learn how to use hot water....

[kamongear]

y the hell would u want a replacement top for the rd30!? I would'nt let delrin touch my baby...it is the most piss weak plastic i can think of to replace the nuclear fallout shelter that is the front of my pump. In my eyes u would just be compromising the iwaki's greatest feature, its reliability.

Instead u should just grow up and learn how to use hot water....

The same reason you would do so for a ddc.



Is there any point in debating flow/watt efficiency on AC-powered pumps unless we're counting kWh like Al Gore on a particularly anal day?

Seems like the only competitive measure of AC-powered pumps should be flow/NOISE efficiency.

WS

Yep. Most AC pumps are power hogs.

[TheBigBunny]

Please get out of this thread, I don't give a s*** about DC pumps.

That time of the month eh?

[kamongear]

That time of the month eh?


Its hard not to get pissed off when someone repeats something SEVERAL times when I said I wasn't comparing this(performance-wise) to a ddc.

Sometimes it takes some force to get people to open their eyes and read.

[kamongear]

Isn't an Eheim a AC pump with 1.6mtr head

:D :D :D

And how many watts does that pump consume? Not to mention how large is it?

More watts=More heat in your loop.

[grudgelord]

y the hell would u want a replacement top for the rd30!? I would'nt let delrin touch my baby...it is the most piss weak plastic i can think of to replace the nuclear fallout shelter that is the front of my pump. In my eyes u would just be compromising the iwaki's greatest feature, its reliability.

Instead u should just grow up and learn how to use hot water....

It's an academic discussion, hopefully leading to an more thorough understanding of pump design regarding what would be required in order to design a replacement volute designed specifically to accommodate the fittings commonly used for PC water cooling. Delrin was merely assumed based upon the precedent established by the substances established use in the industry and presumably due to its suitability for small volume manufacture for whatever reason.

I agree that the nylon polymer construction of the stock Iwaki volute would be hard to improve upon as it is extraordinary resilient, though the reliability of the pump line is owed primarily to the motor and bearing designs which most certainly should not be altered.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread about... whatever this thread is about.

[STEvil]

Its kind of hard to see what its about.. almost like the op wants lowest heat dump possible while still getting the water to barely move..?

[MrToad]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread about... whatever this thread is about.

Man, it's obvious. Haven't your read the previous posts?

Is about how this pump compares to the Laing DDC :rolleyes:

[MaxxxRacer]

Touche but I bet an RA-15 would beat that MD-15 of yours hands down.

Not a chance man. 1.6m of head is just not very useful for watercooling apps.

And besides, who cares about AC except for when we want something REALLY powerful that DC doesnt provide (barring the hard to acquire RD series). Anyone who uses a small AC pump like the one you have is kidna shooting themselves in the foot because its harder to setup and takes up more space (due to the relay or AC cable sticking out the back of the computer)

All of this said, discounting DC pumps, this pump is not very useful even as an AC pump unless you have a small loop for the NB or memory, etc.


Lastly, keep it clean guys. I dont want to have to start editing posts and hadning out infractions.

[kamongear]

Not a chance man. 1.6m of head is just not very useful for watercooling apps.

And besides, who cares about AC except for when we want something REALLY powerful that DC doesnt provide (barring the hard to acquire RD series). Anyone who uses a small AC pump like the one you have is kidna shooting themselves in the foot because its harder to setup and takes up more space (due to the relay or AC cable sticking out the back of the computer)

All of this said, discounting DC pumps, this pump is not very useful even as an AC pump unless you have a small loop for the NB or memory, etc.


Lastly, keep it clean guys. I dont want to have to start editing posts and hadning out infractions.

Notice how I said RA-15?


Its kind of hard to see what its about.. almost like the op wants lowest heat dump possible while still getting the water to barely move..?

I guess im the only one who finds the RA prefix of this pump interesting.


the heat dump is negligible

what is this thread about anyway?? that AC pump sucks, thats the bottom line

If thats how you feel why comment in a thread where I CLEARLY stated THAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE RA SERIES NOT THIS ONE PUMP.

People need to talk less and read more.

[serialk11r]

Heat dump IS negligible.
When we're doing watercooling in our computers, we care about quite a few things more than efficiency. Those things are, in no particular order, noise, SPACE, and pumping power. So even if a pump was inefficient, but it met the other criteria, people would still buy it. And besides, your definition of "efficient" is incorrect.

[kamongear]

Heat dump IS negligible.
When we're doing watercooling in our computers, we care about quite a few things more than efficiency. Those things are, in no particular order, noise, SPACE, and pumping power. So even if a pump was inefficient, but it met the other criteria, people would still buy it. And besides, your definition of "efficient" is incorrect.

Lets say you had as much space as you need and noise was a non-issue.

By your definition an MD-100 would yield better temps than an RD-30 would.

Heat dump is not negligible.

What's my definition of efficient?
Define in your terms how efficient this pump is.

The bottom line is the RA series(if it scales as the MD series does) are the best AC pumps around.

[serialk11r]

Lets say you had as much space as you need.

By your definition an MD-100 would yield better temps than an RD-30 would.

Heat dump is not negligible.

NO, did you see my other thread? MD100 would be a worse than RD30, for a different reason. And heat dump IS negligible, until you start pulling out MD30 and up size pumps, or if you're submerging a pump that big.
More flow is not always better, but low flow is bad, period.

[kamongear]

NO, did you see my other thread? MD100 would be a worse than RD30, for a different reason. And heat dump IS negligible, until you start pulling out MD30 and up size pumps, or if you're submerging a pump that big.
More flow is not always better, but low flow is bad, period.


No i did not. And I don't know which thread your refering to.

Putting that clause after your statement means heat dump is not negligible.:fact:

[serialk11r]

No i did not. And I don't know which thread your refering to.

Putting that clause after your statement means heat dump is not negligible.:fact:

Uh, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141432
Anyways, MD100 is going to be worse than an RD30 not because of heat dump. I clearly said, "because of other reasons". Now there is a chance the heat dump of an MD100 will make a difference, just because that pump is so large AND its AC.
Lets talk more rationally. An MD100 is so big you can't fit it into a reasonably sized case.

[kamongear]

Uh, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141432
Anyways, MD100 is going to be worse than an RD30 not because of heat dump. I clearly said, "because of other reasons". Now there is a chance the heat dump of an MD100 will make a difference, just because that pump is so large AND its AC.
Lets talk more rationally. An MD100 is so big you can't fit it into a reasonably sized case.

260w of heat into a loop does not have a chance of making a difference, it WILL make a difference.


IF you are using ridiculous pumps or submerging them. which IS NOT done in WCing. so it IS negligible for OUR purposes.

my caps lock got stuck a couple times in the right places

Maybe to you but even .5c is not neglible when your trying to find the best of the best. An RD-20 dumps 28 watts of heat into a loop. A similarly speced MD-30 dumps 45. To some that isn't negligible.

[nikhsub1]

This argument is getting old - the RA you mentioned is not suitable for us, end of story. It is just too weak, IDC if it put out ZERO watts, it is still to weak. Now if you could find me a pump with 10m Head, 300GPH max flow with 14.5 watts THEN you'd be talking!

[serialk11r]

260w of heat into a loop does not have a chance of making a difference, it WILL make a difference.



Maybe to you but even .5c is not neglible when your trying to find the best of the best. An RD-20 dumps 28 watts of heat into a loop. A similarly speced MD-30 dumps 45. To some that isn't negligible.

Where did you get all this? It is almost impossible to tell how much heat is going into the water. The pump itself uses energy to PUMP WATER. IT TAKES ENERGY TO PUMP WATER. The RD20 will NOT dump 28W just because it uses 28W. In that case, it would be called a space heater, not a pump.
Find us an AC pump that is quiet, powerful, and fairly compact, then your argument becomes valid. You say this "RA 15" is supposed to be good. We need to see an RA15 before we can say all this.

[serialk11r]

here it is

10m Head, 300GPH max flow with 14.5 watts AWEsomE pump (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_16818_16818)

Uh, its 1.4-1.7AMPs at 120V AC, so that's 160-200W...there is no such thing as MORE work coming out than the work going into the pump. That pump is not suitable for computer use, its way too big, and probably way too noisy.

[kamongear]

This argument is getting old - the RA you mentioned is not suitable for us, end of story. It is just too weak, IDC if it put out ZERO watts, it is still to weak. Now if you could find me a pump with 10m Head, 300GPH max flow with 14.5 watts THEN you'd be talking!

I never said this one pump is suitable. Its not.

A few in series. Sure why not.

An RA-20. Yes, judging from this one pump.


Where did you get all this? It is almost impossible to tell how much heat is going into the water. The pump itself uses energy to PUMP WATER. IT TAKES ENERGY TO PUMP WATER. The RD20 will NOT dump 28W just because it uses 28W. In that case, it would be called a space heater, not a pump.
Find us an AC pump that is quiet, powerful, and fairly compact, then your argument becomes valid. You say this "RA 15" is supposed to be good. We need to see an RA15 before we can say all this.

It consumes 60w/outputs 28w. This is all from iwaki's own information.

The fact is what im saying about this series is speculation from this one pump. I thought at least some of you guys might join in and speculate with me.


People should look beyond whats on the market right now and try to find new better things. Rather than it taking someone like cathar to find new pumps, make new ideas, ect.

[serialk11r]

Well if some RA15 or RA20 pump does happen to be a nice pump, I don't see why people won't buy it. The problem is, we haven't seen one yet. A few of the pump you have in series won't cut it...unless you're planning on 5 pumps in series, which will be a waste of energy anyways.

[serialk11r]

check this out, i think this is the pinnacle:

http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/720686121645.html

eheims should be in discussion, these numbers are amazing!!

635GPH @ 12ft of head!!

Anything above 200 something GPH max is totally useless. esp. because that thing has just 12ft of head, which is not too great either...
Lets get this straight: For watercooling, we want HIGH max. pressure, LOW max. flow.

[STEvil]

I have the 12v version of the Pony 360gph pump linked a few posts back ;)

Also have an Eheim 1250.. that 1260 looks neat :D

[MrToad]

I'm far from being a W/C-ing guru, but I think I still can read plain english.

In the sticky Choosing The Best Pump for Your WaterCooling System (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41495), on the Extreme Pumps section, and under the MD-30RLT/WMD-30RLT title there's the following comment:


NOTE: Cathars recent test data show that this pump is rather useless due to the high heat output (50 watts). In light of this information, this pump will actually give you higher overall temperuates, regardless of radiator (even up to 2 3fan rads) and even with a gpu attached. So please do not get this pump. You will be wasting your money!

Although the OP has stated countless times that he wants to keep this thread about this particular pump series only, I thought I had to mention it. This observation should apply regardless of the pump choice.

If Cathar thinks that the heat dump is relevant to the loop's performance, and his tests show that higher heat dump can negate the benefits from higher head/flow, I think it would be wise to take his opinion into account.

NOTE: MaxxxRacer, you use the term temperuates as in? Peruvians with a temper? :D :D :D

[serialk11r]

Now I don't know how Cathar did his testing, but 50W is A LOT...almost like adding a GPU.
BTW, more flow isn't always better ;) By that, I mean if you had very high flow and some pump that didn't dump any heat, it would NOT be a good thing.

[kamongear]

Well if some RA15 or RA20 pump does happen to be a nice pump, I don't see why people won't buy it. The problem is, we haven't seen one yet. A few of the pump you have in series won't cut it...unless you're planning on 5 pumps in series, which will be a waste of energy anyways.

These pumps in series I'd assume would be an equivalent to the MD-20. So not that great. I wish there was an RA-20 pic somewhere to see its perf.


I'm far from being a W/C-ing guru, but I think I still can read plain english.

In the sticky Choosing The Best Pump for Your WaterCooling System (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41495), on the Extreme Pumps section, and under the MD-30RLT/WMD-30RLT title there's the following comment:



Although the OP has stated countless times that he wants to keep this thread about this particular pump series only, I thought I had to mention it. This observation should apply regardless of the pump choice.

If Cathar thinks that the heat dump is relevant to the loop's performance, and his tests show that higher heat dump can negate the benefits from higher head/flow, I think it would be wise to take his opinion into account.

NOTE: MaxxxRacer, you use the term temperuates as in? Peruvians with a temper? :D :D :D

Thank you.


Now I don't know how Cathar did his testing, but 50W is A LOT...almost like adding a GPU.
BTW, more flow isn't always better ;) By that, I mean if you had very high flow and some pump that didn't dump any heat, it would NOT be a good thing.

50w I think is about a 965/975 northbridge. It could be a GPU but def not any of the 8800's.

[nikhsub1]

check this out, i think this is the pinnacle:

http://pet-king.stores.yahoo.net/720686121645.html

eheims should be in discussion, these numbers are amazing!!

635GPH @ 12ft of head!!
You're joking right? I hops so.

[nikhsub1]

why would i be joking? and i mean pinnacle of practical AC WCing pumps
65 watts, need I say more? :stick:

[serialk11r]

Pinnacle of practical AC pumps=MD20 :)

[Xeon th MG Pony]

1Hp bell & Guaset is the pinicle of Circulating :) they go forever at fluid temps of 240F 115C and the V48 series head modulated valve is the pinicle of 3 way acting by pass valves.

Yays lets talk about hydronic heating water now and how you can use your PC to help heat the house!

[MaxxxRacer]

serial. Please do not be confused. heat dump is of great concern in watercooling. It is the reason that the AQX50Z is more suitable to small radiator setups than the 18w DDC or MCP655/650. Its also the reason that we are not using MD30's or MD100's.

Hypotheically speaking, if you put the MD30 in a refrigeration system so that it was kept below or at room temperature then it would be a GREAT pump for us.

soccerswim8, there are no eheims that are the pinnacle of AC pumps. As serial said, when coupled with atleast a decent radiator (120x2) the MD-20RLZ is the pinnacle of AC pumps.

bartsimsonii : You want us to be interested in the RA series. Please provide data sheets of the other pumps so that we can see if the other RA pumps are worth a closer look.

MrToad: my humblest appologies for my poor spelling (more accurately my laziness)
(just try to ignore the spelling errors in this post)

[MrToad]

On-topic:


bartsimsonii : You want us to be interested in the RA series. Please provide data sheets of the other pumps so that we can see if the other RA pumps are worth a closer look.

Which, as you already know, will basically mean a sausage.

This comment comes straight from the department of the bloody obvious: Until a few given pumps of those series have been tested under controlled conditions with proper measuring equipment, preferably on a testbed that somewhat resembles a real life loop, and the results compared objectively (flow, head, heat dump, temperatures...) and subjectively (dimensions, weight, ease to install/hook, power consumption, convenience...) to the existing alternatives, every speculation places us one step away from reality.

Off-topic:


MrToad: my humblest appologies for my poor spelling (more accurately my laziness)
(just try to ignore the spelling errors in this post)

No need to (although you are still allowed to apologize if you desire, am I not magnanimous?).

We live in the me w4ntz0rz speekie englisch age anyway. I'm the one that's outdated.

Edit: I am the pinnacle of pedantry. Non plus ultra.

[kamongear]

serial. Please do not be confused. heat dump is of great concern in watercooling. It is the reason that the AQX50Z is more suitable to small radiator setups than the 18w DDC or MCP655/650. Its also the reason that we are not using MD30's or MD100's.

Hypotheically speaking, if you put the MD30 in a refrigeration system so that it was kept below or at room temperature then it would be a GREAT pump for us.

soccerswim8, there are no eheims that are the pinnacle of AC pumps. As serial said, when coupled with atleast a decent radiator (120x2) the MD-20RLZ is the pinnacle of AC pumps.

bartsimsonii : You want us to be interested in the RA series. Please provide data sheets of the other pumps so that we can see if the other RA pumps are worth a closer look.

MrToad: my humblest appologies for my poor spelling (more accurately my laziness)
(just try to ignore the spelling errors in this post)

As I stated before I don't have anything but this one pump. I figured by a stroke of luck someone here might know something, I was wrong...

[serialk11r]

serial. Please do not be confused. heat dump is of great concern in watercooling. It is the reason that the AQX50Z is more suitable to small radiator setups than the 18w DDC or MCP655/650. Its also the reason that we are not using MD30's or MD100's.

Hypotheically speaking, if you put the MD30 in a refrigeration system so that it was kept below or at room temperature then it would be a GREAT pump for us.


Sorry if I did cause any confusion. The point I was trying to get across was, for the smaller sized pumps, heat dump shouldn't be a big issue. Lets be realistic, is 5 extra watts of heat going to hurt performance that much?
A lot of factors go into picking the right pump. Those are noise, size (if you can't fit it somewhere, what use is it?), pumping power, etc. No one should be using an MD30 for watercooling in the first place...too large, too powerful (too much wasted pumping power), too much heat, too much power consumption. Now epion says that the MD30 is bad for chillers too because it is just enormous and uses too much energy...but I'll leave that issue to people with more experience in that area.