Fan filters worth it? t-balancer for DDC [Archive]

View Full Version : Fan filters worth it? t-balancer for DDC

clone38

04-06-2007, 09:24 AM

Ok getting a little fed up with the amount of dust that`s going into my case,thermochill 120.3 fans sucking cool air into case.
Was thinking would the foam or ally mesh filters do the job without messing my air intake to much.

Also had my cpu pump cut out the other day,lucky is wasnt my videocard pump or i would have been in the dodo,will a t-balancer do the job of shuting down my pc before any damage would be done.

Thank`s :)

Jimmer411

04-06-2007, 09:59 AM

Why not enable the high temp shutdown in bios? I set mine to 60C and call it good, hasent failed me since. Thats my safeguard since I use an AC pump.

sanhacker

04-06-2007, 10:13 AM

Also had my cpu pump cut out the other day,lucky is wasnt my videocard pump or i would have been in the dodo,will a t-balancer do the job of shuting down my pc before any damage would be done.

Thank`s :)

The bigNG when used with the Sensor Hub found here (http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=85&osCsid=67087a98934c4bae5b5c8eed1314f3f2) can perform the shutoff when your pump RPM's fall below your threshold.

dem1an

04-06-2007, 11:36 AM

sanhacker

04-06-2007, 12:19 PM

I was considering this device as well.

...so you need the bigNG and an analog extension set? this thing is getting pricier by the minute. i thought the bigNG already came with some analog sensors.

i'm kinda confused by how this thing works, what it can do and can't, etc. are there any good reveiws on this thing?

You only need the Sensor hub if you want automatic shutdown. You're correct. The bigNG comes with analog and digital temp sensors. What it doesn't come with is the ability to be connected between your power switch and motherboard to power down your system. For this you need the sensor hub. You can download the manuals at the link I provided above.

Here (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&artpage=2229&articID=533) is a review over at Madshrimps

I agree it's kind of confusing. Then again, this is XtremeSystems.
I googled bigNG and just started reading the manuals, posts, reviews, etc.

If mCubed was better at marketing, I think this thing would be a hit.
Rather than an obscure device with little or no market exposure.

dem1an

04-06-2007, 12:30 PM

agreed on the marketing communication...and if they could lower the price point. thanks.

JeffnWV

04-06-2007, 12:32 PM

The bigNG when used with the Sensor Hub ...can perform the shutoff when your pump RPM's fall below your threshold.

This thing work for bigNG'n wives too??

sanhacker

04-06-2007, 12:47 PM

This thing work for bigNG'n wives too??

LOL !!! I don't have one of those anymore so I'm not sure.
How do you think I can afford a bigNG and sensor hub?

And, I don't need it on my girlfriend since I only see her two nights a week!

Sideroxylon

04-06-2007, 01:44 PM

The bigNG when used with the Sensor Hub found here (http://www.mcubed-store.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=85&osCsid=67087a98934c4bae5b5c8eed1314f3f2) can perform the shutoff when your pump RPM's fall below your threshold.

I'm getting tired of saying this and seeing this posted.

The bigNG can auto shutdown your comp without a sensor hub. It can use Speedfan or MBM instead. If your pump has the rpm sensor wire you can also have it shutdown if it detects that your pump isn't working.

sanhacker

04-06-2007, 02:04 PM

Sideroxylon

04-06-2007, 02:20 PM

Okay.

From the mCubed web site.

According to the description of the bigNG:

"Which extensions exist for the T-Balancer bigNG?
Extension set digital (6 more digital sensors), extension set analogue (6 more analogue sensors, emergency PC power off, connector for 2 flowmeter), 2 T-Balancer miniNG (more fan channels), Waterkit (with flowmeter and water temp probes), filling-leve meter (in development), Multi-IO with 16 In- and Outputs (in development)"

According to the description of the sensor hub:

"If a certain temperature exceeds, or the waterflow is below or above a limit, the emergency switch will be activated. It is connected between ATX power switch and mainboard. First a soft switch-off will be tried (Windows shut down), after a while a hard switch-off. Limits and times are free configurable. "

If I'm reading this correctly, I can have my power switch connected only to the sensor hub. This gives me the ability to turn off the system first via Windows shutdown and if that fails, it powers off the system via the power switch connection of the sensor hub.

I can base the shutdown on either:
1. lack of RPM's being detected via the RPM lead on the pump.
2. temp exceeding the threshold of either my temp probes, flow sensors, digital sensors or analog sensors.

I don't know about you but many times I've shutdown Windows and had a message waiting to be responded to before the shutdown completes. If this occurs, the sensor hub takes over to simulate me pushing the power button.

I have mine set to shutdown via Speedfan once 90c cpu temp is reached. I've tested this by lowering the temp threshold to a temp that my cpu hits when at load. It is not a Windows type of shutdown it is an instant shutdown. All without a sensor hub.

As far as having the message to shutdown when exiting Windows, there's a setting in bigNG software that you can set to auto shutdown with Windows. I forget which it is but I had the same problem your talking about. That's one of my only complaints with the bigNG is the wording that they use for things in the software. The translated terms they use aren't quite the same as what we normally use. It can be a little tough to figure out what certain things do. But if you play with it for a bit you'll figure it out.

dem1an

04-06-2007, 06:28 PM

I'd be tempted to try this

http://www.acryan.com/_meshx/index.shtml

clone38

04-07-2007, 08:18 AM

I'd be tempted to try this

http://www.acryan.com/_meshx/index.shtml

Ive tryed them,no good as not much air get`s through them.

mcoffey will be insterested when them part`s come to see how you get on with them.

JeffnWV

04-07-2007, 09:38 AM

yup me too,

I have to get something that keeps the dust out the inside of a black gloss painted case:D

andyc

Saran wrap...sez right on the box "Keeps the freshness in"

JeffnWV

04-07-2007, 09:59 AM

one thing I like about my front and side fans, the holes are pretty small on the grills and when it's time to clean ya just run the soft bristle vacumm extension over it and sucks it all away. Staying pretty clean in there for now.

JeffnWV

04-07-2007, 10:05 AM

mcoffey (reminds me, I need to get some more), was wondering if there's anything we have to do with the fluid for these Petra mod'd DDC-2's?( which btw I want red.. where do I get that?) Is there a metal difference issue? And any advice on the EK gtx blocks I can glean from ya? I gots 2 of em to put on my EVGA 88's. I have some Ceramic compound coming with my order. that gonna do fine for all my blocks?

btw, I have one of them Dell 30"...windows :) I held my hand up to the screen while playing a fps and it was the same size as the one in the game holding that M-16. It's like being there!

InTheFlow

04-07-2007, 11:49 PM

mcoffey will be insterested when them part`s come to see how you get on with them.

I'm looking forward to that update as well.

ranker

04-08-2007, 01:18 AM

I have mine set to shutdown via Speedfan once 90c cpu temp is reached. I've tested this by lowering the temp threshold to a temp that my cpu hits when at load. It is not a Windows type of shutdown it is an instant shutdown. All without a sensor hub.

As far as having the message to shutdown when exiting Windows, there's a setting in bigNG software that you can set to auto shutdown with Windows. I forget which it is but I had the same problem your talking about. That's one of my only complaints with the bigNG is the wording that they use for things in the software. The translated terms they use aren't quite the same as what we normally use. It can be a little tough to figure out what certain things do. But if you play with it for a bit you'll figure it out.

Unless there's a new version that I don't have, the shutdown isn't exactly as easy as it looks. I believe the monitoring software in Speedfan can only do 4 things on a trigger (ex: exceeding a user defined temp):
1) display a message on screen
2) make a noise
3) email an address
4) execute a command

Now there's a few batch commands one can setup to do a shutdown but it's not exactly something 90% of the populace can do. Not to mention for those of us running Vista, executing commands could require administrative interaction.

If you've got an easier way to do an instant shutdown instead of a windows shutdown, please do detail how you do it since I'd love to know.

Sideroxylon

04-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Unless there's a new version that I don't have, the shutdown isn't exactly as easy as it looks. I believe the monitoring software in Speedfan can only do 4 things on a trigger (ex: exceeding a user defined temp):
1) display a message on screen
2) make a noise
3) email an address
4) execute a command

Now there's a few batch commands one can setup to do a shutdown but it's not exactly something 90% of the populace can do. Not to mention for those of us running Vista, executing commands could require administrative interaction.

If you've got an easier way to do an instant shutdown instead of a windows shutdown, please do detail how you do it since I'd love to know.

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant is that the bigNG software is shutting down my comp by using the temp readings from Speedfan.

dem1an

04-08-2007, 10:05 PM

I was reading up on those too. but they're more grill than filter. So not sure what level they'd keep the dust out, but didn't feel like they would. I'd still be concerned about restriction too.

did really like the versatility though, seemed pretty cool the way you could cut them to shape.

I'm really picky about stuff like reduced air flow and added noise, so not sure if there is a filter that I'll like.

gl,

andyc

I don't have a shroud yet to look at it, but I was even entertaining the idea of cutting to size a prefilter and putting it inside the 40mm space of a shroud. It would certainly cut down air flow some, but I'm sure you could compensate some with a little more fan speed. Thoughts?

I didn't look long, but any sort of thin carbon filter would trap a lot dust.
e.g. http://www.marbeck.com/air_cleaner_filters_whirlpool.html

InTheFlow

04-09-2007, 02:50 AM

I don't have a shroud yet to look at it, but I was even entertaining the idea of cutting to size a prefilter and putting it inside the 40mm space of a shroud. It would certainly cut down air flow some, but I'm sure you could compensate some with a little more fan speed. Thoughts?

I have a shroud and I think you're right, you'll cut down on the air flow a good bid by doing that. You would probably be able to adjust for it some by using more power on the fans but that may give you more noise than you want.

If you are going to use a filter, using one on the outside would be a better idea because if it is inside your shroud, you'll have to take that off every time you need to clean the filter...could become a PITA.

Also, if you were to configure the fans in a pull position, you'll still have dust buildup in the Rad. If you had them in a push position, you'll still have buildup in the fans.

I'm looking for a good way to cut back on the dust myself. Hopefully between all of us we'll come up with something. :cool:

InTheFlow

04-28-2007, 10:46 PM

So I ordered these with all the wiring gear I just bought to check them out. Seems like they would be quieter. and I like how you can clean the filter without unscrewing the fan.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=92&products_id=2275

So, how did these work out for you mcoffey? Any updates?

QuietIce

10-27-2007, 04:50 AM

Caution! Resurrection in progress!

I think we need to take a little engineering from the auto industry. Performance air filters run ~10x the size of the X-section of the car's intake (see the K&N website (http://www.kandn.com/)). While I'm sure we don't need nearly that much, since our fans don't have an air speed of 70 MPH, I think we could get our air filtered without undue restriction by adding ~50% to the size of the filter. That's just a WAG at the moment, some testing is indicated. ;)

So a standard 120mm fan would need a 150mm square of thin foam filter. This could be done by making a shroud large enough (maybe double the normal depth) and slightly bigger to accommodate the filter before the fans or rad (depending on your config). I know for you internal guys that may be a bit of a problem but those with external or top-/back-mounted rads could easily benefit by making a bigger shroud or adding an outside shroud if your fans are internal and pulling ...

septim

10-27-2007, 06:19 AM

pretty picture please? to go with this thread resurrection...

QuietIce

10-27-2007, 02:23 PM

pretty picture please? to go with this thread resurrection... In process but it'll be a few weeks. I've got a SETI race to run over at OCForums - no system changes until 18 Nov. :)

Just thought I'd throw this out here now so others could play with the idea for awhile ...

InTheFlow

10-27-2007, 11:39 PM

It will be interesting to see how it works out for you and what your results are. I bought different micron size filtering cloth from McMaster but haven't tested extensively with it yet. I know the really fine stuff doesn't work due to severe airflow restriction.

My rad is currently extremely dust laden so I would like some kind of filter that works. Right now the dust itself seems to be doing a good filtering job! :rofl:

QuietIce

10-28-2007, 02:14 AM

I understand the dust being it's own filter! :D I've also tried the filters (for case fans) Clone38 is using now - not bad but too much maintenance for me. You can clean the dust every week or so but about once a month I have to remove the screen and wash it. The back of my machine isn't very accessible. :-/

I'll be using the Whirlpool carbon filters linked above. My heater cores were originally mounted in front of an air cleaner just to use the fan on it. The new set-up will have the carbon filter in front of the HCs (x3). I'll start there and then move on to my other rigs. They'll be tougher because they're low-flow fans.

BTW - Cool avatar!!! I used to smoke a pipe many moons ago before I started my career but I couldn't use it at work and had to switch back to cigs. I miss the pipe ... :(

septim

10-28-2007, 04:05 AM

how about those big holes foam that lian li uses?

InTheFlow

10-29-2007, 02:57 AM

BTW - Cool avatar!!! I used to smoke a pipe many moons ago before I started my career but I couldn't use it at work and had to switch back to cigs. I miss the pipe ... :(

Thanks! You could always smoke a pipe at home if you want to be reunited. :)

An interesting little tidbit...did you ever read the surgeon generals report about pipe smoking? It was quite a while ago but it turns out that pipe smokers were living just as long or longer on average than non-smokers.

@septim

I've never seen the foam you're talking about. Is it available separately, & what was your experience with it if you used it?

QuietIce

10-29-2007, 03:08 AM

@septim

The idea is that ANY foam or filter will degrade performance. You still need the extra surface area to counter that problem.

Thanks! You could always smoke a pipe at home if you want to be reunited. :)

An interesting little tidbit...did you ever read the surgeon generals report about pipe smoking? It was quite a while ago but it turns out that pipe smokers were living just as long or longer on average than non-smokers. Tried that for awhile - didn't want to give it up! But it just didn't work out ...

septim

10-29-2007, 04:53 AM

i'll post a pic when i get imageshack to load faster...

JargonGR

10-29-2007, 12:09 PM

Sorry for the confusion. What I meant is that the bigNG software is shutting down my comp by using the temp readings from Speedfan.

Just to add a note on this BigNG discussion. The Sensor hub is not the same exactly as having Speedfan to do the Shutdown. It is a full HARDWARE solution and it is fully independent from any software running and ofc will do its job even if speedfan or whatever else (Vista or XP) crashes your PC.

So for 100% safety the Sensor hub is the way to go since once programmed, BigNG will keep the setting in its on board flash memory and will do its job at all costs even if the USB connection to the PC is lost (which is not hard to happen). Whereas with Speedfan if the USB connection between BigNG and your PC is lost or if there is a crash of windows while folding and then a pump failure bye bye.

So to be sure set your BIOS accordingly for shutdown or use Sensorhub.

septim

10-30-2007, 02:48 AM

the foam material i meant was this kind found in most lian li filter boxes
3rd post 2nd pic...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=163813

Fairydust

10-30-2007, 03:38 AM

Pantyhose/Stocking = cheap, easy and effective fan filters IME.

septim

10-30-2007, 06:13 AM

sounds like a plan, just don't tell the missus or GF you got em from her cabinet...

QuietIce

10-30-2007, 02:36 PM

They are good filters but a PITA to clean unless they're removable ... :-/

BenArcher

10-31-2007, 11:03 PM

To the BigNG thing. If your not affraid of a soldering iron. Get a termocouple or flow meter connected to very small gen/electric motor. Depends wether you want to go off flow rate or temperature. Get low voltage relay and some wires.

Then there is a few options.

Option 1.
Connect make a nice little 5V ciruit or 12V whatever the relay your using needs to work. Connect the thermocouple in series in this ciruit on teh trigger side of the relay. Connect your computers computers power switch in parralell to the other side of the relay. Now when the temp is cold the resistance of the termocouple is high so the relay will be open. When the temp gets high enough the relay will close having the same effect as pushing the power button on your computer. You can do the same thing connecting the RPM monitor line or generator to the trigger side of the ralay.

Other option is to connect the open/close side of relay so that it instantly cuts power to the computer.

There are a few other things you can do. And if anyones interested I'll draw you up circuit diagrams and tell you what you will need. This was just a quick post giving the idea.

QuietIce

11-01-2007, 03:35 AM

I'd be interested in something like that! You got PM ... :)

CyberDruid

11-01-2007, 04:12 AM

The Filters I Use and Reccomend are the migh flow alu mesh ones (round in acrylic frams) that are commonly available at shops like PPC.

They work very well. I've been using them since around 2004. Don't think the foam ones work well.

Women's nylon stocking works very well too if you're man enough to use it :D

QuietIce

11-01-2007, 04:22 AM

Don't think the foam ones work well. You mean the standard computer foam filters? I had my doubts about those.

But the Whirlpool filters should work great - at least they do a very good job on my room air purifiers as a pre-filter for the HEPA filter ...