Clearance issues in a Stacker 830 Evo

[RX7boricua]

Hi guys,

I'm having a huge problem deciding where to mount a radiator in my CM Stacker 830. Unfortunately it has a lot of wasted space that is really messing up my WC plans. I will be cooling an overclocked 6600 and two overclocked 8800GTXs. The components will consist of a FuZion CPU block, two EK 8800 blocks, a Laing DDC2 with Petra's top, T-line, and a radiator which is still to be determined. My problem is that I'm very picky. I want all of my WC components to be internal, and I don't want to flip my motherboard upsidedown for better clearance. Below are the issues I am having.

First off, there's no way I'd be able to fit a 120.3 inside this case. I've decided that I could settle for an MCR320, but I'd have to lengthen the cutout in the floor of the case. I took some measurements and I believe that I can fit the 320 and pump on the floor of the case. The clearance issue I'm having is between the top of the rad and the bottom of the lower video card. I will only have around a half inch or so of clearance between the card and the radiator, which I assume will disrupt airflow somewhat. This configuration would have the rad on the floor of the case, with the fans underneath the case bolted to the fan through the floor. Clearance below the case shouldn't be a problem with casters, as I would have around 3" between the floor and the bottom of the case where the fans would mount to.

Another issue I foresee is mounting a 120.2 to the front of the case in the 5.25" bays. I have accepted the fact that I'd lose all but the top two 5.25" bays, but I think I may have problems with the HDD cage. I would have to mount it to the bays behind the 120.2, and with the rad being 2.4" thick, I'm not sure if I'll have enough clearance between the cage and other components like the video cards, etc. Sure, I could go with an MCR220 and gain an inch, but I don't think it would be sufficient to cool everything I have.

So here I am, seeking guidance from the gurus of liquid cooling and Xtreme computing, hoping that you can shed light on this situation and tell me what you think I should do so I can go ahead and order the rest of my components and get this thing nice and wet! I know this is a long post, but I want to be sure that I paint a vivid picture for everyone so I don't get some of those, "Uhh dude, what's your question?" responses. :)

I've considered trashing this week old 830 and going with a MM UFO, but unfortunately I'd like to keep my "boys" right where they are instead of bringing yet another possible PC related purchase to the attention of the wife. :)

Please help!

[Rava6e]

I'm having a huge problem deciding where to mount a radiator in my CM Stacker 830.

Place it outside, in an external casing, and put it next to your pc, on the floor. :)

[RX7boricua]

But that's not Xtreme enough! :P I really want an internal solution. External cooling just doesn't do it for me at all. I think at this point, I need to know if I'd be able to fit a PA120.2 in the front or if an MCR220 in the front will be enough for my CPU and GPUs. I think the rad in the floor idea isn't going to fly. :(

[cadaveca]

I ahve my 3x120mm rad in bottom of case...fans mounted in the bottom "cowling" beneath the case.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57433&stc=1&d=1175779544

[Cronos]

Placing rad in the bottom will kill airflow. Placing it in the front kills all the space for hard drives, and will also heat your internals.

Outside is most "xtreme" in the sense it gives the best performance. You may get several degrees by strategically placing rad over the roof. As they say, "this will give your case unique look". Another advantage, you may place 2 120.3 here for two loops or better cooling in one loop.

[Terryb47]

Well there you go: that's a perfect fit I'd say :woot:

[JamesTX10]

Check out the old rig link in my sig. I mounted the rad in the front. I was not happy with the results.

[cadaveca]

Placing rad in the bottom will kill airflow. Placing it in the front kills all the space for hard drives, and will also heat your internals.

Outside is most "xtreme" in the sense it gives the best performance. You may get several degrees by strategically placing rad over the roof. As they say, "this will give your case unique look". Another advantage, you may place 2 120.3 here for two loops or better cooling in one loop.

In a watercooled system, it's only important that fresh air covers every part of the case, and with 2x120mm fan in front, one in top, 3 in bottom and one behind, you can feel the airflow even betweem the vidcards @ mobo level. It would only kill airflow if this was a sealed case...and this case is far from it. As open as it is, you want as many fans in this case as possible.

NO discernable difference from using the hole in the bottom to route the rtubing in and having the rad outside to how I have it set up now, except that case airflow is BETTER.:fact:

[Cronos]

cadaveca How much clearance do you have between fans and underside bottom? If it is less than 5-6cm, it adds significantly to the flow resistance.
I have seen people having less than 1cm clearance, which adds resistance equal to having several rads, effectively "killing" the flow.

Another consideration, important to me, is that having that much airflow through the case means heavy dust accumulation.

[RX7boricua]

Yeah inverting the motherboard is an option, but the way my stuff is set up, inverting it would result in everything being hidden from view. After spending all of this money on this computer crap, I wanna be able to look at it! :) James, I did look at your old setup, and I think I'd be able to work with that, but I doubt an MCR220 or BI Stealth would be enough to cool my stuff. I do have a bit of an update though. I'm trying to scam one of my employees into buying the 830 at a small loss to me. If that goes through, I may need to just suck it up and get myself a MM UFO Horizon. The problem is that 400 bucks for a case still makes me cringe, and I'm almost positive that I won't be able to get the "Wife Seal of Approval". :(

[RX7boricua]

Yeah Cronos, dust is another problem, especially out here. I'm in Kuwait right now, and dust out here is a MAJOR issue. I'd definitely need some type of filtering or I'd have to clean everything once every one/two weeks. My old Tsunami has a 120mm fan in the side panel, blowing right onto my Big Typhoon. My temps recently shot up 5-6 degrees, and I found that underneath the BT fan, the fins were completely clogged with a mixture of cat hair/fine sand. A few seconds with the vacuum cleaner and I'm back down to 31-32deg idle. :)

[cadaveca]

yeah, I don't need really high airflow with this rig, and as mentioned high airflow creates dust. But you said AIRFLOW THROUGH CASE...not through rad. And boy...do you wonder what filters are for?


Anyway, using the wheels for the case as well means that there is plenty of room to create a shroud...you just have to have a wee bit of fabrication skills. i have 1-inch between fans and rad, and a 1/4 inch of floor clearance for the fans.

So yeah..I think i got it covered.:lol2:



:stick: Use some imagination, adn you can accomplish anythingyou set you mind to. But I don't doubt myself...I am willing to fail. But this time, in setting up this rig, I did not.


3DMark06:11869 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=1114475)
3DMark05:21370 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=2757711)
3DMark03:37367 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=5237748)
3DMark01:62701 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=9158398)
PCMark05:9504 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm05=732528)
E6600 @ 3.8ghz, RD600, 4GB Crucial Tracer PC6400, X1950Crossfire & X1950XTX DangerDen watercooled!

[Cronos]

... and a 1/4 inch of floor clearance for the fans.


Place a fan at 1/4" above desk and compare with open air, and see how much of airflow you are losing.

I am all about maximum performance. I have dual quad-Xeon machine, overclocked, and i don't want to loose even 1C to the "bling" factors.
And you are loosing much more due to inefficient rad placement.

[syne_24]

The 830 doesn't give you much room to work with. IMO if you wanted to do internal then you should have gone with the STC or 810. It would have made it a lot easier to run even 120.3 with 38mm fans.

[cadaveca]

Place a fan at 1/4" above desk and compare with open air, and see how much of airflow you are losing.

I am all about maximum performance. I have dual quad-Xeon machine, overclocked, and i don't want to loose even 1C to the "bling" factors.
And you are loosing much more due to inefficient rad placement.

Um..no difference in temps.:stick: beleive me, if it was better temp-wise to have rad outside, I would. If i got better temps without a case, I'd have it that way too...but for my rig, it doesn't make a difference...not in exhaust air temps, not in water temps, not in cpu temps, not in chipset temps, not in either gpu temps.


So yeah, it works quite well for me. I'm sorry this is not up to your standards, but I'm more than happy with it.

[RX7boricua]

Well boys, looks like the tragedy has been averted for now. I threw on an athletic cup last night and ran the MM UFO Horizon idea by the wife, and surprisingly enough, she was very receptive to it! She basically told me to go ahead and order everything I need and get it over with. My Stacker is pretty much sold as well. I can't believe I'm getting a UFO. I think this deserves a bit of :woot:

[syne_24]

Wait..you gonna have a UFO case in Kuwait!? That is pretty xtreme lol. Honestly when I was over there I didnt dare think of a desktop, and certainly not that size! I'd stick with a labtop if I were you. But it be nice to see if you can pull it off. :) BTW what camp are you staying at? Camp Victory?

[RX7boricua]

My wife and I are both DOD contractors working at Camp Arifjan. I've been out here almost 3 years now. We live in a pretty big 3br/2.5ba apartment, not a tent, so the UFO won't be a problem. :P The biggest issue I have out here is that it takes stuff like 2-3 weeks to get out here usually. Not to mention MM is wanting to charge me like 80 bucks to ship the UFO and a PA120.3 out here Priority mail. :( Yay I just got called Xtreme! :D

[syne_24]

Oh i see..yea I guess things are much better there now. I was picturing you in a tent with a UFO case for a minute there lol! Those dust storm is going to suck bad if that was the case.:) Hmm..2-3 weeks doesnt seem that bad, it used to take us exactly 1 month to get anything up in Mosul. Anyways, the UFO is definitely the right choice if you are serious about watercooling. It will have plenty of room to work with compared to the 830. Good luck! :toast:

[RX7boricua]

That would definitely be pretty Xtreme. :P We do get frequent dust storms out here, and the general dust in the air is a problem for my machine, but it's nothing a few filters can't handle. I think I'm going to have fun with this UFO, especially since my wife is a damn saint. She called me up this morning and this is was our conversation:

Wife: "Hey, since you were talking about wanting to run two loops since you're going to cool so much stuff in your computer, you may as well just get all the stuff for it now so you can just install everything at once instead of having to redo stuff later on."

Me: "..." "God I love you."

So I am now pricing out a second DDC2 and PA120.2 and the rest of what's needed to run a 2nd loop! I do believe this calls for a celebratory dancing banana.

:banana:

[virtualrain]

I'm sorry to hear you copped out and opted for the UFO!!! :stick: :p:

I mounted a pair of 240 BI GTS rads on the inside of the fan door. These rads are the only ones that are thin enough to fit.

http://members.shaw.ca/virtualrain/waku044sm.jpg

The benefits and complications are numerous...

On the positive side, there is the fact that you can get 4x140mm fans on that side door running very slowly but still pushing enough air to cool the rads and at the same time, blowing cool air over your entire motherboard, RAM and graphics cards, etc. Most of the air vents out the top blow-hole and the interior case temps are very good.

The complications arise from having only marginally enough room to work with (although it does work) and rigging the tubing to allow the door to open and close is a bit tricky.

More pics and information here... http://virtualrain.blogspot.com/2006/10/radiators-black-ice-gt-stealth-240.html

The end result is very cool IMHO. :devil:

http://members.shaw.ca/virtualrain/Waku104sm.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/virtualrain/Waku106sm.jpg

[GeoffP]

Yep, I had the same problem with my CM Stacker 830.

Have ditched it for a U2-UFO Opti-1203.

Good decision..

Build is currently under way - check link in my sig :)

[2000army]

nice job virtual!

[RX7boricua]

Yeah I have looked at your setup and it definitely kicks butt. I just don't feel that the 830 is suited for water at all. As far as aircooling goes however, I think it's one of the best cases out there with all the ventilation. I just priced out everything I would need to purchase to get this thing up and running. $1133 total shipped. I still think my lovely wife is going to strangle me at some point when she realizes what I'm about to do. :P My setup will pretty much look like redcorn's when I'm done with it, except I'm going to have a red and blue loop, both UV reactive. Pentosin G11 and G12 ftw! :D