View Full Version : Is my head too big?
spin_doctor
03-03-2007, 04:39 AM
Okay... I need to borrow someones experience here so I don't :banana::banana::banana::banana: this up...
The loop is going to consist of:
DDC+ Ultra 18W Pump with Alphacool top
D-TEK Fuzion
NB Block (still undecided - I want to be able to use EK barbs with it though)
G1/4" Elbow
EK-FC8800GTS
G1/4" Elbow
G3/8" Elbow
PA120.3
G3/8" Elbow
EK 150mm res sitting on top of the pump inletAlso: EK Barbs and 7/16" ID, 5/8" OD Masterkleer all round.
My worry is that the pump is going to struggle against the pressure losses the loop will create. :shrug:
The reason I've included 2 x 1/4" elbows and 2 x 3/8" elbows is purely because I don't think I'll get the tubing to bend tightly enough without kinking to do without them. The 3/8" elbows shouldn't provide quite as much of a restriction as the 1/4" ones, but I'll still see if there's any way to smoothe out the bends (like porting the head on a car engine). Any 90deg elbow will undoubtedly increase the restrictions though...
So, can anyone put my mind at rest, or are my concerns justified. If they are, what do you recommend? :idea:
1.5'' is all you need for the hose to bend, so i'd defo ditch the elbows!!!
Pump be fine with cpu and GFX bock but pending NB we wont't know. EK is bringing out some new nb blocks that are very free flowing!!
phelan1777
03-03-2007, 05:10 AM
elbows are not a great Idea.
[XC] DragonOrta
03-03-2007, 05:11 AM
I don't see any reason there might be a problem. You have the least restrictive radiator and waterblock, so even though you might end up using the elbows, I don't think you'll run into disaster in regards to flow.
Instead of the elbows, though, just get some Swiftech Coolsleeves. They've saved tubing runs that would have kinked up on me about a dozen times so far.
phelan1777
03-03-2007, 05:49 AM
I can not speak higly enough of cool sleeves, I don't know if dragon took a close look at my rig, but as I have a DFI Expert, the SLI slots are close together, and cool sleeves worked wonders.
So yes if you can, go with cool sleeves, its a bit tricky at first, but its well worth the effort.
spin_doctor
03-03-2007, 06:43 AM
1.5'' is all you need for the hose to bend
I worked out there'll only be around 30mm (~1.3/16")between the rad and the GFX card... I don't know how long EK barbs are, but even if they were only 1/2" I don't think it'll give me enough space to play with.
So yes if you can, go with cool sleeves, its a bit tricky at first, but its well worth the effort.
Re above: What do you reckon? You think Coolsleeves will allow me to make the bend?
BTW: Phelan, who's the hottie in your avatar?
spin_doctor
03-03-2007, 06:52 AM
Pump be fine with cpu and GFX bock but pending NB we wont't know. EK is bringing out some new nb blocks that are very free flowing!!
Eddy's stuff is really nice... You know when they'll be coming out? Failing that, what about a Maze4 or something?
Sideroxylon
03-03-2007, 07:29 AM
If you need to put some elbows in your loop do it. Everyone around here thinks that 90's will kill your flow and make you infertile and make your dog run away. :rolleyes:
It turns out that the pressure loss of a 90 equals about the same loss you'd get through 1 foot of tubing. It's not very much. If it makes sense to use a couple 90's in your loop just do it.
Eddy's stuff is really nice... You know when they'll be coming out? Failing that, what about a Maze4 or something?
I looked at it's prices on the site, it the black one with a derlin top with 4 hold down points. If i was not modding my sliver RBX to fit my NB i'd use his
phelan1777
03-03-2007, 09:04 AM
I worked out there'll only be around 30mm (~1.3/16")between the rad and the GFX card... I don't know how long EK barbs are, but even if they were only 1/2" I don't think it'll give me enough space to play with.
Re above: What do you reckon? You think Coolsleeves will allow me to make the bend?
BTW: Phelan, who's the hottie in your avatar?
When I put the Expert back in my case I will get pics of the bends and you will see what I mean.
Give cool sleeves a shot, wont hurt.
The "hottie" is a friend of mine :-)
The "hottie" is a friend of mine :-)
How can we get to be friends with her? Any more photos? Oh and your friends that plutonic?
phelan1777
03-03-2007, 09:07 AM
How can we get to be friends with her? Any more photos? Oh and your friends that plutonic?
Well be it she is how she is, I would wager to say that no one here would stand a chance let alone, if I were to try.
hehehe I think its funny all the guys here that are asking about her, I just used her as an avatar cause she is cute. I have other pics, but I wont' show and tell cause she would get mad and that is the last thing I want.
She look alternatice styled....which is me!
We could do a trade. I'll show ya some uber nice photos of my ex now a full on model
spin_doctor
03-03-2007, 06:07 PM
If you need to put some elbows in your loop do it. Everyone around here thinks that 90's will kill your flow and make you infertile and make your dog run away. :rolleyes:
It turns out that the pressure loss of a 90 equals about the same loss you'd get through 1 foot of tubing. It's not very much. If it makes sense to use a couple 90's in your loop just do it.
I think I'll need to... The 3/8"'s won't be as bad as the 1/4"'s, but they'll all get a good "porting" if it's at all possible! :hrhr:
I wont' show and tell
Props for chivalry and respect! :clap: Dying attributes, and sorely missed in this day and age...
Phelan, how do you find the Maze4 you've got listed in your sig? Would you change it for something else now you've tried it?
serialk11r
03-03-2007, 07:04 PM
Excuse me sideroxylon, but one elbow isn't the same as a foot of tubing, if you're talking 1/2" tubing...
Could you please take pictures of your components inside your computer without the elbows and tubing? That would help A LOT. Also try figuring out other places to put the rad. As for the pump, I don't think it will struggle lol, wait till you see my loop, when its done (sigh, I really need to stop procrastinating).
phelan1777
03-03-2007, 07:36 PM
Props for chivalry and respect! :clap: Dying attributes, and sorely missed in this day and age...
Phelan, how do you find the Maze4 you've got listed in your sig? Would you change it for something else now you've tried it?
TY,
I don't have it listed because I am not using it currently, its sitting aside with my Ultra-D and other extra parts.
I know the maze 4 wont' fit because the mount holes won't like up, hence the g80 adapter kits for the MCW60s.
Excuse me sideroxylon, but one elbow isn't the same as a foot of tubing, if you're talking 1/2" tubing...
Excuse me, but one 90º elbow does have about the same pressure loss as one foot of tubing, even 1/2".
The losses do go down as diameter of the elbow increase, but the are still pretty close.
Depending on your flow rate you can expect a pressure drop of .025-.125psi or .06-.29 ft of head for each elbow. edit: that is for a 1/2" 90º elbow, I would avoid using 1/4" anything in my loop.
The losses form elbows can certainly add up if you use enough of them, you decide what is too much.
here's a post with some theoretical pressure losses for strait tubing and 90º elbows:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=129695
serialk11r
03-03-2007, 09:45 PM
That dude had 2 elbows which he claimed made the setup "look better"...
virtualrain
03-04-2007, 02:35 AM
The real world impact of a few elbows is highly over-rated here. A pair of elbows is no different than adding an MCW-30... and no one worries about the effect of that on flow! For goodness sakes, an MCW-60 has the equivalent of four 90-degree bends... A few elbows will have ZERO impact on your temps in such a loop. Spin_Doctor, don't worry about it!
BTW, I don't think your pump will have any issues with that loop either.
Mr. Peanut
03-04-2007, 01:12 PM
The real world impact of a few elbows is highly over-rated here. A pair of elbows is no different than adding an MCW-30... and no one worries about the effect of that on flow! For goodness sakes, an MCW-60 has the equivalent of four 90-degree bends... A few elbows will have ZERO impact on your temps in such a loop. Spin_Doctor, don't worry about it!
BTW, I don't think your pump will have any issues with that loop either.Elbows aren't necessary. Just buy a bunch of zip-ties. If there is a kink that you absolutely cannot get around, then simply start fastening and tightening zip-ties around and on the kink. It took me 5 or 6 to get a really tight bend in my loop to straighten out, but it did in the end. If you don't like the look of zip-ties, use Coolsleeves (although I bet zip-ties do the job better), or even paint the zip-ties with UV-reactive paint.
serialk11r
03-04-2007, 01:20 PM
Its not zero impact, but 1 or 2 probably won't hurt THAT MUCH. But of course, if you can just use tubing it makes things simpler and easier too.
spin_doctor
03-04-2007, 04:45 PM
It sounds like the general concensus is that if I have to use them, it's not the end of the world, but don't do it if you don't have to...
I'm going to get some tubing hopefully this week and I'll see what I can do with it... I'll get a couple of extra feet and play around with heating it etc. to see what it can do.
Oh... Presumably if you over tighten the elbows to get them pointing in the right direction, the acrylic/acetal on the GFX block will crack yeah?
serialk11r
03-04-2007, 05:19 PM
Do not heat the tubing up...
hopper
03-04-2007, 06:22 PM
in the spots in my case where the barbs are 2in apart and i need a serious bend i just stick about a ft of tube on it and stuff it in the case,,,, i have my pump and res basicly side by side at the bottom of my case with a foot or 2 of tube running at the bottom of the case in a big loop... and cpu to gpu are 2 in apart i put almost a foot of tube on that basicly big circles with no sharp turns... more tube vs sharp bends.. extra tube might be same flow.....
serialk11r
03-04-2007, 06:53 PM
I saw a pic of someone's rig where the tubing was twisted up real bad from teh NB block to the GPU block, and the tubing was squashed at the barb on the NB, there were coolsleeves (ugh) and the tubing was making a real damn tight bend. I'm pretty sure that causes plenty of restriction...
spin_doctor
03-05-2007, 01:35 AM
Do not heat the tubing up...
Why? I take it that's a bad thing?
omni123
03-05-2007, 02:07 AM
Why? I take it that's a bad thing?
Heating is fine if you don't 'overheat' it. Heating it up with some hot water to squeeze over fitting is often required in 7/16" setups.
spin_doctor
03-06-2007, 06:22 AM
Presumably if you over tighten the elbows to get them pointing in the right direction, the acrylic/acetal on the GFX block will crack yeah?
I take it the answer is a pretty obvious "Yes" for this one?